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April 10, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 10 April 2014

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SPC

One suspects that Penny is counting on this being an election year. And during the campaign the PM will present a then homeless Penny with some new social housing established by some charity group with subsidy from the government.

She will be the older version of the girl used for that election year photo op back in 2008.
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April 10, 2014 8:23pm
cha

Are you still sitting, quietly, in your nice wee warm abode while you made it or are the Super City Bailiffs knocking at your door ?

The late great Stanley Unwin:

Are you all sitty comftybold two-square on your botty? Then I’ll begin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXZMqtHEMgs
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April 10, 2014 8:25pm
Reid

nasska BTW, thanks for your comment last night pointing out to the useful morons the distinction I make between you know who and you know what.

I appreciated that.
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April 10, 2014 8:26pm
UglyTruth

“One day that member might realise that Prime Ministers are always right.” Judith Collins
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April 10, 2014 8:27pm
mikenmild

Ugly
I know you replied in the negative to my question whether you are a freeman on the land. I’m sure you’ll forgive me, but your line of quasi-legal reasoning seems awfully close to that employed by the freemen. Could you explain where your views differ?
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April 10, 2014 8:31pm
Johnboy

And they never leak by definition UT! 🙂 ….Helen Clark.
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April 10, 2014 8:32pm
Viking2

Two Blondes With Hammers….

Lynn & Judy were doing some carpenter work
On a Habitat for Humanity House.
Lynn was nailing down house siding,
Would reach into her nail
Pouch, pull out a nail & either toss it
Over her shoulder or nail it in.

Judy, figuring this was worth looking into, asked, ‘
Why are you throwing those nails away?’
Lynn explained, ‘When I pull a nail out of my pouch,
About half of them have the head on the wrong end
& I throw them away.’
Judy got completely upset & yelled,
‘You moron! Those nails aren’t defective!
They’re for the other side of the house!’
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April 10, 2014 8:34pm
Sofia

Penny, why does Judith Collins getting tired of Labour grinding on week after week, too stupid to give a dead horse away, and finally telling the little fat one to get fucked, make her corrupt?

You just have a transparent sort of gut-feeling do you? 🙂
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April 10, 2014 8:34pm
Viking2

A blonde was driving home after a game & got caught in a really bad
Hailstorm.. Her car was covered with dents, so the next day she took it
To a repair shop. The shop owner saw that she was a blonde, so he
Decided to have some fun… He told her to go home and blow into the
Tail pipe really hard, & all the dents would pop out.

So, the blonde went home, got down on her hands & knees & started
Blowing into her tailpipe.. Nothing happened.. So she blew a little
Harder, & still nothing happened.

Her blonde roommate saw her & asked, ‘What are you doing?’ The first
Blonde told her how the repairman had instructed her to blow into the
Tail pipe in order to get all the dents to pop out.
The roommate rolled her eyes & said, ‘Uh, like hello!
You need to roll up the windows first.’
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April 10, 2014 8:34pm
Viking2

A blonde & her husband are lying in bed
Listening to the next door neighbour’s dog..
It has been in the backyard barking for hours & hours.
The blonde jumps up out of bed and says,
“I’ve had enough of this”.
She goes downstairs.

The blonde finally comes back up to bed
And her husband says, “The dog is still barking,
What have you been doing?”

The blonde says,
“I put the dog in our backyard,
let’s see how THEY like it!
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April 10, 2014 8:35pm
Judith

@ UglyTruth (2,870 comments) says:
April 10th, 2014 at 8:27 pm

Don’t get too excited, she’s only preparing the way for when she is Prime Minister…
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April 10, 2014 8:35pm
Viking2

Bill and his wife Blanche

Bill and his wife Blanche go to the state fair every year, And every year Bill would say, ” Blanche, I’d like to ride in that helicopter ”

Blanche always replied,

” I know Bill, but that helicopter ride is fifty bucks, And fifty bucks is fifty bucks! ”

One year Bill and Blanche went to the fair, and Bill said, ” Blanche, I’m

85 years old.

If I don’t ride that helicopter, I might never get another chance ”

To this, Blanche replied,

” Bill that helicopter ride is fifty bucks, and fifty bucks is fifty bucks ”

The pilot overheard the couple and said, ” Folks I’ll make you a deal.

I’ll take the both of you for a ride. If you can stay quiet for the entire ride and don’t say a word I won’t charge you a penny!

But if you say one word it’s fifty dollars. ”

Bill and Blanche agreed and up they went.

The pilot did all kinds of fancy maneuvers, but not a word was heard.

He did his daredevil tricks over and over again, But still not a word…

When they landed, the pilot turned to Bill and said, ” By golly, I did everything I could to get you to yell out, but you didn’t.

I’m impressed! ”

Bill replied,

” Well, to tell you the truth

I almost said something when Blanche fell out, But you know, Fifty bucks is fifty b
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April 10, 2014 8:36pm
Viking2

Judith. The Nats are far to old boys network types to allow a female PM.
Well of course that may not always apply to some women who are mere males.
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April 10, 2014 8:38pm
SPC

Reid, so Zionism is a plot to destroy Jews? And so cunning that it got Jews to take it up and adopt it as their own political nationalism?

ben Gurion thought that a homeland was the way out of persecution of Jews. And that anti-Semites would be defeated by the creation of a national homeland. Whereas you think that national homeland is the means to destroy the Jews.

Sounds like you and he play the same game.

The irony about your support for the religious Jew, with the focus on their faith, is that they are the source of much of the settlement in the West Bank and the political support for expansion of this.
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April 10, 2014 8:39pm
Judith

Sofia (774 comments) says:
April 10th, 2014 at 8:34 pm
Penny, why does Judith Collins getting tired of Labour grinding on week after week,

because she knows that people are listening and thinking “Yeah, why won’t she say what went on”?

Especially when they remember the PM saying, “if you are not doing anything wrong, it won’t matter if people know what you are saying and doing”,

In this case they’ve decided the PM is a wise man – 🙂
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April 10, 2014 8:41pm
ShawnLH

“So let’s not have anymore lies from you, SGA, Shawn and mm. Educate yourself. You’re only making complete fools of yourself.

Good Lord you and Ugky are arrogant wankers.

You don’t get to decide what we can and cannot think, nor can you just respond with infantile non-arguments that we are lying simply if we disgree with your and Ugly’s whackjob nuttery, on any subject.

If you and Ugly are too infantile to take being challenged, go somewhere else.

In the meantime, both of you need to grow up.

Your support for Islamic fascists who kill Jews AND Jewish children means you have no moral highground.

Your distinctions between who you think are Jews and who are not is unprovable and frankly absurd conspiracy theory used to support your attempt to wash your hands of the crimes of racisim and anti-Semitism, and I have studied enough real Jewish history to know that your theory is bullshit.

You just don’t have the guts to admit it. I have slightly more respect for skinhead nutters with swastika tattoos. They at least don’t try to pretend they are anything other than what they are or throw childish temper tantrums if they are challenged.
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April 10, 2014 8:43pm
Johnboy

Meanwhile away from the parliamentary sideshow that 0.000001% of the population of Godzone actually give a shit about JK is posing with the Royals and popping back over for a one-on-one with Barrack Judith! 🙂
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April 10, 2014 8:46pm
Judith

@ Johnboy (13,305 comments) says:
April 10th, 2014 at 8:46 pm

Actually, I’m not the least bit worried what JK is doing today, or tomorrow – I am a little concerned about what he might be doing on 21st September, but even then, its not a high priority in my life. I am more concerned about teaching my grandchildren to be the very best they can be, whilst they still think grandma is the best thing they’ve got in their lives…

I’m really lucky to live in a country that allows me to think like that, and one which I know, that whatever happens, the sun will come up on 21st September and continue to every day, regardless of which bunch get in…

(the writer of this message takes no responsibility for the vomit on your keyboard that might result from a sudden influx of ‘touchy feely emotions’ 😛 )
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April 10, 2014 9:02pm
Psycho Milt

Who can honestly envisage the Normandy landings being undertaken by the current mish mash of Gods knows what which makes up the US Army?

Yeah, it’s been proven time and time again that conscript armies beat professional ones hands-down. No, wait, that’s completely the wrong way round! Only a deranged, gibbering loudmouth with a serious drinking problem and a contemptible lack of respect for serving military personnel could think that! Oh, right…
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April 10, 2014 9:09pm
Johnboy

Never fear Judith. All your little grandsprogs will be far better off under the leadership of a family man like JK than they would be under the leadership of an egotistical weirdo like Silent, teamed with a dropkick like AussieGinga, teamed with a racist like Hone, teamed with a sad old drunkard like Winston.

I of course could be entirely wrong and good, sensible government could arise out of a collection of losers like that! 🙂
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April 10, 2014 9:11pm
Sofia

Judith, although it is only marginally important, do you think regarding Coolins responses, reading the first few comments, that Mr Speaker and Gerry Brownlee were not already primed to argue about the question and whether it should have been allowed to start with. It was likely discussed earlier. And, supposedly being on a final warning from Key, Collins would be reasonably careful how she answered, and had probably checked that out too.
Robertson should give it away.
Probably needs some grandchildren.
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April 10, 2014 9:13pm
Johnboy

This almost makes an old hater and wrecker like me proud to consider black things with Koru’s and other jigaboo stuff as a suitable emblem for NZ! 🙂

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/9926708/Stunning-timelapse-shows-Air-NZs-new-787-9
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April 10, 2014 9:15pm
publicwatchdog

Ok Kiwibloggers – have you seen this?

http://action.ae911truth.org/p/salsa/web/common/public/signup?signup_page_KEY=7507

The AE911Truth Petition:

TO THE MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND OF THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Please Take Notice That:

On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 – specifically the collapses of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.
We believe there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that might have been the actual cause of the destruction of the World Trade Center Twin Towers and Building 7.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Please check the boxes which apply to you, if any:

Active RSV Military Aerospace Engineer AIA AIA Chapter Head
Attorney Chemist Demolition DHS Counter Terrorism
Engineer Prof Explosive Explo Demo FAIA Architect
911 Family Member Firefighter Fire Prot Eng High Rise Arch
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Medical Prof Metallurgist Fed Empl Other Govt Empl
Phd Physicist Pilot Professor
Scientist Struct Eng Student Veteran
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Submitting this form indicates confirmation that you are age 18 or older. We will edit all publicly displayed content for spelling, grammar, and relevance to topic.

Please confirm your email address is: or correct it above. Watch for an email from us to verify your occupation/credentials in order to display you on our site. Thank you!
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Architect and Engineer Signatories (2,181)

View/Download/Print the Petition with 2,000 Architect and Engineers

The architects and engineers below have signed the Petition demanding a new investigation into the destruction of all 3 World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11.
Sign Petition » – or – View Petition Text
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Check for yourselves the names and qualifications of the 2,181 architects and engineers who have signed the above-mentioned petition.

I respectfully suggest you check for yourselves other information on this website.

(If you dare! )

Penny Bright

Advanced Trade
Sheetmetal Engineering

Welding Tutor for 9 years at Manukau Institute of Technology Auckland

PS: If you really do believe that the heat from burning airline fuel (kerosene) can melt steel – then ask yourselves how come
when you light a kerosene heater – it doesn’t melt??
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April 10, 2014 9:22pm
Judith

@ Johnboy (13,306 comments) says:
April 10th, 2014 at 9:11 pm

Actually my little ‘grandsprogs’ will be okay regardless of who gets in because I had a very astute great grandfather who believed that family was the most important thing, and that governments come and go, and policies change, and the countries fortunes are won and lost, but if you look after your family, and protect it by making sure your ‘business’ cannot be influenced by whatever circus is running the joint, then the sun will continue to shine. And although there may be a few cloudy days, providing each generation acts in the best interest of the next generation, then we will be okay. He’s been dead almost 120 years, and so far he hasn’t been wrong.

I am not stupid enough to believe it will always be that way and that one day influences totally beyond the control of any one person, or government will burst that bubble, but for now I’m happy to accept that I don’t need to kiss any politicians butt, because in this great country of ours, I have the freedom to organise my life, so I can take care of myself.

I just wish more would put less emphasis on the politics and realise that personal responsibility cannot be replaced by a good government.
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April 10, 2014 9:25pm
Johnboy

“Welding Tutor for 9 years at Manukau Institute of Technology Auckland”

Now I know where those big strong biceps came from!

Chipping away at the slag! 🙂
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April 10, 2014 9:26pm
Johnboy

‘I had a very astute great grandfather who believed…etc….

Are you telling us that great grandad set up a family trust Judith?

Shame on you and your family using a filthy capitalist trick like that to opt out of fair taxes that support the less fortunate amongst us! 🙂
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April 10, 2014 9:31pm
ShawnLH

Russian authorities withheld information on Boston attack, report says.

“The Russian government declined to provide American authorities with information about one of the Boston Marathon bombing suspects two years before the attack, which likely would have led to more extensive scrutiny of the suspect, according to a published report.

The New York Times, citing an inspector general’s review of how American intelligence and law enforcement agencies could have prevented the deadly bombing last April that claimed three lives and wounded hundreds, reported that Russian authorities told the FBI in 2011 that Tamerlan Tsarnaev “was a follower of radical Islam.”

But after an initial investigation by FBI agents in Boston, the Russians declined several bureau requests for additional information they had about Tsarnaev, who was killed in a shootout with police days after the attack.

The new report found that the Russians shared the additional intelligence — which included a telephone conversation intercepted by Russian officials between Tsarnaev and his mother in which they discussed Islamic jihad — only after the bombing, the Times reported.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/10/russian-authorities-withheld-information-on-boston-attack-report-says/
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April 10, 2014 9:39pm
ShawnLH

“Ok Kiwibloggers – have you seen this?”

Yes, we have seen quite a lot of mental illness and narcissistic personality disorder lately Penny. People who demand that other’s switch their brains off and agree with their delusions, and throw temper tantrums if they are challenged. People who think the drivers licence rules do not apply to them. And people who think rates are only for other people to pay.

And whadya know. They are all 911 truther nuts.

Did someone leave the door to an asylum open?
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April 10, 2014 9:45pm
Reid

ben Gurion thought that a homeland was the way out of persecution of Jews. And that anti-Semites would be defeated by the creation of a national homeland. Whereas you think that national homeland is the means to destroy the Jews.

They set it up, they knock it down SPC. The price for America coming into WWI to save the British from defeat was the Balfour Declaration.

The evil satanic Zionists then worked with Hitler to populate “Zion,” after giving Hitler the ammunition he needed to convince the German people that they lost WWI because of the Jewish betrayal, directly engendering the hatred in WWII.

The evil satanic Zionists then populate the Israeli leadership apart from unusual moments such as when Yitzhak Rabin obtained the presidency at which point they murdered him.

The reason they did that and still do, is to make Israel, which they set-up, a pariah state. So that when its beset by a seething sea of furious and implacable Muslims, no-one will come in and save them.

Game, set and about to be, match. Aided of course by useful idiots galore, such as you and Shawn, who apparently can’t wait to see Israel destroyed and Satan rise.
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April 10, 2014 9:45pm
Judith

@ Johnboy (13,309 comments) says:
April 10th, 2014 at 9:31 pm

When my great grandfather arrived here he looked at the land and saw roast mutton on the tables of all his relatives back home.

The money he made may be borrowed, but must be repaid, because it doesn’t belong to anyone that has been born yet .. it always belongs to next generation.
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April 10, 2014 9:46pm
stephieboy

Reid (15,422 comments) says:
April 10th, 2014 at 5:54 pm.

This is but one example of the kind of Rubbish Reid places between ears from his earlier link ,

http://chasvoice.blogspot.fr/2014/03/no-sandy-hook-victim-ever-born-multiple.html

and another one from one of the most virulent anti Jewish hate sites on the internet, Zionist Crime Factory none other ,

http://spingola.com/JewWorldOrder.pdf

I can only conclude the guy is a genuine sicko.!
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April 10, 2014 9:47pm
Reid

This is but one example of the kind of Rubbish Reid places between ears from his earlier link ,

Above is but one example stephie pretends I posted, which I never did.
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April 10, 2014 9:49pm
Judith

@ Sofia (775 comments) says:
April 10th, 2014 at 9:13 pm

Like most things said in the house, they were heavily staged conversations, IMO.

I am sure Collins, given the first act of this play, has been told to give one answer and that is all. I’m sure she is very aware her career rests on how she handles the situation. Problem is, that the longer it goes on, the more stupid both sides look.

I think anyone with a brain will know that Collins visit was not entirely appropriate, but we’ve got that message now, and the shock impact has been achieved – I don’t think Labour can expect to keep collecting points from the same play – the horse is dead – it ain’t going to ‘neigh’ no more!
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April 10, 2014 9:52pm
Tom Jackson

Sure. I’m not saying there is. I’m just refuting the claim that evolution being a series of “accidents” does not mean that the universe can not have been planned

If evolution is true, then it can’t have been planned in such a way as to necessarily bring human beings into existence. The species that exist right now and their attributes are the result of historical happenstance. If random mutations had turned out differently, we would have completely different species inhabiting the earth. If the universe is designed to bring human beings into existence, it would be odd that it did so via a mechanism which made the existence of human beings and our sense of value extremely improbable.

It is possible that the universe has some other purpose, but that purpose would have nothing to do with human ends or needs. We would be like the random shavings from God’s lathe as he makes whatever it is he is making (a spice rack, if fourth form wood work is anything to go by).

It remains that human existence is a contingency if the mechanism by which we were produced is evolution. Things could have been otherwise.
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April 10, 2014 9:59pm
Tom Jackson

supporting zionist thugs who murder Palestinian children?

I don’t support them either, and I have real problems with the behaviour of the Jewish community in the USA (but not NZ), but that doesn’t mean I believe in the widely debunked Khazar bull shit or any of the other conspiracy theories.

If there’s a world wide Jewish conspiracy, then Stephen Fry and Al Franken must be in on it.
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April 10, 2014 10:01pm
Tom Jackson

Things could have been otherwise.

To take it a bit further. If human desires are contingencies, then it seems odd that God would get all het up about men wanting to put their penises in other men’s bottoms, or teenage boys jerking off over pictures of naked ladies.
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April 10, 2014 10:03pm
stephieboy

Reid,

This link here,

http://iamthewitness.com/

Scroll down right and you’ll see what I mean.

I refuse to believe that your not aware of them and they don’t illicit some sympathy and support from you.
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April 10, 2014 10:05pm
wreck1080

I think this could well happen in Auckland….

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2601104/House-prices-soar-2020-Middle-income-earners-priced-warn-Chartered-Surveyors.html
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April 10, 2014 10:12pm
Reid

I refuse to believe e that your not aware of them and they don’t illicit some sympathy and support from you.

Do you stephie. Well what about if I say I wasn’t aware of them and since I’m not, they don’t elicit (not illicit – I told you, educate yourself) any sympathy nor support whatsoever from me, in any way, at all.

Of course if I bother to read them it’s possible they might, depending what they say. But since you’ve highlighted them I’m afraid to say stephie that’s just dropped right to the bottom on my list of things I’m about to do.

Why don’t you read: http://ia600508.us.archive.org/3/items/PawnsInTheGame/Carr.-.Pawns.in.the.Game.international.conspiracy.exposed.1958.pdf

That’s the link I said explains the zionists and who they are. Which is why I gave the link in the first place.
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April 10, 2014 10:19pm
ShawnLH

“If evolution is true, then it can’t have been planned in such a way as to necessarily bring human beings into existence.”

This is an assumption that is unprovable either way, and it’s based on a rather odd false dichotomy. Evolution and design are neither rationally nor scientifically incompatible. You assume accidence, but it is an assumption not science. You might be right, but equally you might be wrong.
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April 10, 2014 10:31pm
SGA

ShawnLH at 10:31 pm

Evolution and design are neither rationally nor scientifically incompatible. You assume accidence, but it is an assumption not science.

It depends what “design” means. If design requires a supernatural input, then it becomes incompatible with science.
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April 10, 2014 10:36pm
SPC

Reid, so its a Luciferian origin to the Illuminati and the top level of which are Jews – a conspiracy theory as old as a talking serpent that you believe in.

That the currency traders of the Temple became money lenders and then the House of Rothschild, and the Pharisees became the Illuminati.

So how does Zionism work with the goal of the Illuminati with one world government.

The idea that world history is manufactured by Luciferians is simply a form of fatalism that some force in the world is in charge. It used to be that natural events were acts of god now its our political history as something organised by the Luciferians.

You have no evidence that Wilson required the Balfour Declaration as a condition for US entry for WW1.

That one preceded the other you then like any pagan fatalist determine that this must have enabled an event that occurred afterwards. That’s taking A means (then) B to a whole new level.
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April 10, 2014 10:40pm
ShawnLH

“To take it a bit further. If human desires are contingencies”

How do you know they are? Natural selection still does not prove either contingency or accident. It simply proves selection.
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April 10, 2014 10:41pm
ShawnLH

“It depends what “design” means. If design requires a supernatural input, then it becomes incompatible with science.”

Not at all. Because science cannot tell us anything yet, and that is a big yet, about the supernatural. That does not make them incompatible, it makes science limited. Science is a useful too but it has limitations. And given the radical changes in scientific understanding over the last hundred years alone, it strikes me as highly presumptive to assume that science will never be able to say anything on the topic.
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April 10, 2014 10:46pm
SGA

@ShawnLH
No, you are mistaken. Science is about trying to understand the natural world in terms of natural processes. The supernatural is simply not part of its brief. Most scientists who are religious understand this distinction.
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April 10, 2014 10:49pm
Reid

So how does Zionism work with the goal of the Illuminati with one world government.

Given that I told you Zionism is a political movement: i.e. a front, not a genuine expression of “the will of the people” (which let’s face it, all political movements are, since not even the National Party reflects the genuine will of its people does it), given that and also given that the Illuminati are extremely evil people who want to kill at least 5.5 (or is it 6.5?) billion of us, then how do you think Zionism works, in that context?

You have no evidence that Wilson required the Balfour Declaration as a condition for US entry for WW1.

Don’t I. Let me give you a test SPC. Take it for granted for a second that you’re genuinely interested in the question and adopt an open mind. I know it’s hard but just try it for a second. Now go and see if you can find something that really does look as if he did.

Let’s come back tomorrow sometime and compare notes.
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April 10, 2014 10:56pm
ShawnLH

“No, you are mistaken. Science is about trying to understand the natural world in terms of natural processes. ”

No, science is observing what is. “Natural” processes are a part of that, but reality is not necessarily limited to them.

“The supernatural is simply not part of its brief. Most scientists who are religious understand this distinction.”

Yes I know, that was my point. But it is also true that because science cannot tell us one way or another, it cannot tell us whether natural processes are accidental or not. YET.
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April 10, 2014 10:57pm
SPC

Reid,

“The reason they did that and still do, is to make Israel, which they set-up, a pariah state. So that when its beset by a seething sea of furious and implacable Muslims, no-one will come in and save them.

Game, set and about to be, match. Aided of course by useful idiots galore, such as you and Shawn, who apparently can’t wait to see Israel destroyed and Satan rise.”

So you associate those who do not share your conspiracy theory with those who want to see harm come to the Jews of Israel. Is this supposed to be an attempt to provoke/wound/flame those who bother to question your conspiracy theory about Zionism, so they don’t question your incessant nonsense on the topic?

A question, how would an end to the state of Israel result in some Satan rise? Or is this simply how you pose Moslem nation military presence in Jerusalem?
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April 10, 2014 10:57pm
stephieboy

Reid , with many of your posts and your link to William Guy Carr I refer to my trusty Rational wiki and this is what we learn about the guy,

“Several 20th century conspiracy theory books such as those by William Guy Carr and Des Griffin combined John Robinson’s allegations about the Illuminati and Freemasonry with those of the hoax book, The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, to come up with an explicitly anti-Semitic version of the Illuminati theory. Jack Chick and Alberto Rivera on the other hand promoted an anti-Roman Catholic variant of the theory, alleging the Illuminati was a creation of the Vatican.”

Hmmm……!

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Illuminati
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April 10, 2014 11:00pm
ShawnLH

“So you associate those who do not share your conspiracy theory with those who want to see harm come to the Jews of Israel.”

As a Christian Zionist I support the Jewish people and the state of Israel. I don’t want harm to come to them, but Reid insists that his anti-Semitic conspiracy theory means I do.

Problem is that I think his theory is total nonsense with zero credible evidence.
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April 10, 2014 11:02pm
SGA

ShawnLH at 10:57 pm

“No, you are mistaken. Science is about trying to understand the natural world in terms of natural processes. ”
No, science is observing what is.

You can call it a teacup if you really must – but don’t expect people to take you seriously.
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April 10, 2014 11:02pm
ShawnLH

“You can call it a teacup if you really must – but don’t expect people to take you seriously.”

And vice versa. “Accident” is an interpretation of the evidence, not the evidence itself. It’s a worldview, an interpretation, just as Christianity is a worldview.
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April 10, 2014 11:08pm
Reid

So you associate those who do not share your conspiracy theory with those who want to see harm come to the Jews of Israel.

Of course I do. Why do you think Stalin himself coined the phrase “useful idiots” to describe people like you? It’s because you don’t just stand by on the sidelines like slack-jawed yokels doing nothing in particular, it’s because you actually believe in your gawping insanity that the actions of the people who are destroying the target are laudable and you vigorously defend them against those of us who are attempting to point out the destruction. That’s why a man like Stalin called people like you, “useful.”

Sorry about that SPC and I know you’re not doing it on purpose but hey, I’m not playing the role of the idiot in this equation mate.

A question, how would an end to the state of Israel result in some Satan rise?

If Israel is destroyed then what does that do to the belief of all those naive Christians like Shawn who really believe the current state of Israel as it is really does consist of God’s chosen people? What would that do to their belief in a loving God, if they saw that happen before their very eyes?

And what does the Bible say about that? The city of the seven hills is not Rome as many to most think, it’s Jerusalem. That’s the capital of the NWO. The anti-Christ is prophesied to appear as a man of peace for a short time, before he strips off the mask and bares his fangs. What better place to do that than from a resurrected temple. The trappings of which have already been made and which are in storage in Jerusalem.

I refer to my trusty Rational wiki

In other words, do anything but actually read it, eh stephie?

Hmmmmmmmmm.
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April 10, 2014 11:09pm
ShawnLH

“In other words, do anything but actually read it, eh stephie?”

I have read all of the theories you link to before, a long time ago. None of it is credible, and your interpretation of Revelations is at best a fringe one, especially in the Anglican Church.
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April 10, 2014 11:15pm
SPC

Reid, to pose Zionism as distinct from the will of the Jewish people you would have to explain why the Jewish people would not see having a national homeland as their will. And distinguish your Zionism from that of Jews for and of the state of Israel’s existence.

Whenever anyone believes that the book of Revelation is prophecy that applies to real world history in time and place there will be something kooky in both religious terms and in analysis of world politics.

One attempt to get around that is to have a Luciferian conspiracy applying across history and relate it to government in the world, but if this goes beyond the acceptance of a cyclical view of history – political power/empire rises and falls between the nations and there is the way of peace and co-existence and the way of abuse of power (and power tends to corrupt), then it will be equally kooky. Trying to connect Luciferian conspiracy theory to Zionism, because that is relevant in our era and many American Christians believe in end time prophecy, is a fools game.
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April 10, 2014 11:15pm
TimG_Oz

I really can’t be bothered in any of these conversations.

Some of the recent stuff Reid posted has been pretty offensive. Maybe I could complain to DPF, but I really don’t want to interrupt his holiday. I think DPF kinda tolerates him and a few others. DPF himself called him “Fucking Bonkers” in the past

When I first arrived here about 7 years ago I used to get angry at his wild accusations. Then I realised that he was just some poor guy that lives in Eastbourne. Not part of any group, and pretty unlikely to be recruiting. Posts on Kiwiblog non stop. Probably would get more out of life by spreading some kind acts than sharing this nasty stuff. Maybe some would say that would be more Christian too. I really can’t say.

Have you ever seen the movie “A Beautiful Mind”. That’s pretty much whats going on here I think
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April 10, 2014 11:15pm
SGA

ShawnLH at 11:08 pm

It’s a worldview, an interpretation, just as Christianity is a worldview.

But ShawnLH, there are christian scientists, jewish scientists, muslim scientists, buddhist scientists, hindu scientists, etc. They both hold their religious worldviews and pursue science. Although it would be difficult to be both a young earth creationist and a geologist 🙂 .
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April 10, 2014 11:19pm
ShawnLH

Do you read any mainstream theologians Reid? You might want to try ‘And the Lamb Wins’ by Simon Ponsonby, who refutes the whole anti-Christ/666/The Omen movie silliness.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4268394-and-the-lamb-wins

The anti-Christ references in Scripture are references to the Roman Emperor Nero specifically, and tyranny in general. The book of Revelations has little to do with any end times program, and more to do with a critique of tyrannical government in any form at any time.

Anyway, I’m off to bed.
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April 10, 2014 11:22pm
ShawnLH

SGA,

“But ShawnLH, there are christian scientists, jewish scientists, muslim scientists, buddhist scientists, hindu scientists, etc. They both hold their religious worldviews and pursue science.”

Yes, I know. I’m not sure that we disagree about that. I’m not rejecting science at all, I am in fact agreeing with you. Science and theology are very different disciplines, and one can hold to both.

Just to be clear I’m not a young earth creationist. I put YEC on the same level as Reid’s end times ideas, cartoonish abuses of Scripture based on a failure to understand the narrative nature of Scripture and the fact that Genesis I and 2 AND the book of Revelations are Psalms, mythopoetic narrative songs that were likely originally set to music.

Night all.

And God bless. 😉
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April 10, 2014 11:26pm
Tom Jackson

How do you know they are? Natural selection still does not prove either contingency or accident. It simply proves selection.

The mechanism of evolution involves mutation and natural selection. Mutations are random, and natural selection decides which mutations will continue to exist and which will not. An organism’s environment is populated with other organisms subject to the same processes, so it’s not the case of one type of organism evolving against a static environment. Whether or not a particular random mutation survives is largely up to what other random mutations have or will be thrown up.

If human life were the object of a designer, it would be completely mad for the designer to have used a mechanism that would have very little chance of actually producing human life as we know it, yet that is the mechanism by which our species came into being.

If God wanted to create human beings, why did he bother to create millions and millions of species that no longer exist. Did he create dinosaurs just so kids could enjoy reading about them, and nuked them with a meteorite once enough had lived to make a sufficient number of fossils to keep us interested.
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April 10, 2014 11:29pm
SPC

Reid, and … how does an end to the state of Israel result in world rule/a world ruler in Jerusalem and the Temple being rebuilt in place of a mosque?

I realise that originally some (UN 1947) wanted Jerusalem to be separate from Jewish and Palestinian states and reserved as an international city for all religions. But this is not the same as world rule from Jerusalem and this is most unlikely.

Are you saying that the state of Israel’s end would coincide with destruction of the Dome of Rock? And that neither would be restored? But instead a Temple would be built? And that the one base that the USA would accept for the UN, if not in the USA, would be Jerusalem (if the state of Israel claim expired)?

Sorry, the UN is not likely to be a credible world ruler, just a continuing collective group constraint on those that would prefer to exercise national power beyond their own border.
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April 10, 2014 11:37pm
Reid

to pose Zionism as distinct from the will of the Jewish people you would have to explain why the Jewish people would not see having a national homeland as their will. And distinguish your Zionism from that of Jews for and of the state of Israel’s existence.

Why? Zionism is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Therefore it would be surprising at all that many real Jews would approve of it. I mean why not. Useful idiocy isn’t confined to gentiles.

Whenever anyone believes that the book of Revelation is prophecy that applies to real world history in time and place there will be something kooky in both religious terms and in analysis of world politics.

It’s part of the Bible SPC. You either believe it or you don’t, but its hard to pick and choose if you do believe it.

Trying to connect Luciferian conspiracy theory to Zionism, because that is relevant in our era and many American Christians believe in end time prophecy, is a fools game.

It’s lucky I don’t connect it for that reason then isn’t it. The reason I connect it is because that’s the way it is.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4549.htm

It is the duty of all Jews with a sense of justice and a conscience to speak out against the falsifications of history by the Zionist lobby, and the dangerous misconceptions it has led the West to accept.

Not part of any group, and pretty unlikely to be recruiting.

I always wondered if you were from there Tim. The way you always used to pop up just at the right moment.
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April 10, 2014 11:39pm
Reid

how does an end to the state of Israel result in world rule/a world ruler in Jerusalem and the Temple being rebuilt in place of a mosque?

Israel’s not going to be destroyed by itself, is it. It’s going to be in the context of a wider conflict. That’s why they’re provoking the Muslims and conditioning the West to hallucinate the Muslim is their enemy.

And when it breaks where is it going to break and whose going to be in the middle of it?

And that the one base that the USA would accept for the UN, if not in the USA, would be Jerusalem (if the state of Israel claim expired)?

You’re trying to calculate a world based on todays power structures which wouldn’t exist the way they do today. The USA is being destroyed as we speak, the work is almost completed.

Sorry, the UN is not likely to be a credible world ruler

Yes it will be, if NATO is its army, which it will be and if Russia and China are either co-opted or destroyed. Biologicals targeting Asian DNA will do away with China and most of Asia, what will Russia do? Join or be destroyed?
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April 10, 2014 11:56pm
SPC

Reid, the flood story is also part of the bible yet did not occur in real history, so why believe that Revelation is prophecy of events that are to occur in any particular time and place either?

The two stores when read together explain this.

Does God create life to then kill it in floods and via bowls of judgment from on high like a pagan god of natural disasters? There is no evidence of this.

Even a child can understand the meaning … God creates creation, life is mortal and dependent on its habitat being habitable for survival. That is simply the nature of our mortal life condition.

Apparently so is imagining that political changes in the world are the work of God (or since the bible was published) or some adversary of God. It’s superstitious fatalism. Humanity has free will dominion and responsibility.

The bible story is about faith in whether there is more than the here and now in our finite (in time and place, if rather large) universe, whether there is a God and related faith in matters such as in surviving that which would kill us/eliminate life from its habitat.
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April 11, 2014 12:01am
Manolo

The bastards should be torpedoed and their boats sunk: http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/9927750/People-smugglers-in-Indonesia-selling-spots-on-a-boat-to-New-Zealand

“Everyone is talking New Zealand. There is every facility…and after that you can try [to go to] a big country, every other country.
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April 11, 2014 6:18am
seanmaitland

@duggledog – if you have a decent car, DO NOT put Gull fuel in it. Its watered down with ethanol by 10 percent. It is cheaper, but you’ll get way less mileage out of it and have to fill your car up more often, especially if you’re on the open road a lot.

The best quality fuels in NZ are Z and Caltex – you shouldn’t touch other companies fuels if you care about what you put into your car.

Its well known that ethanol diluted petrol causes serious problems with the fuel systems, in particular destroying the fuel pumps. Car manufacturers will not pay out on warranties for fuel systems if you’ve been using ethanol laced fuels either. If your car is worth more than $3500, then using Gull fuel on it is supremely stupid.
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April 11, 2014 11:29am
Dean Papa

It make you feel like a real man when you shoot!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmJuf2NO23Y
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April 11, 2014 11:59am
SPC

Reid, regarding your posts of 9.45pm and 10.56pm where you claimed that the price of American entry into WW1 was the Balfour Declaration.

Presumably part of your vast research on the Luciferian Illuminati and related synagogue of Satan Zionist conspiracy theory.

The Balfour Declaration was signed in November 1917. The USA entered the war in April 1917. The reason was the USA standing up for freedom of the sea across the Atlantic and Germans pissed off at American supply to the Allies while the Allies applied on blockade on Germany decided to resume attacks on shipping in January 1917. Within days this led to the end of diplomatic relations. And after the Zimmerman telegram – Germans seeking an alliance with Mexico, war was declared in April.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1914-1920/wwi
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April 11, 2014 4:57pm

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