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March 26, 2014 1:00pm by David Farrar

Vanguard Military School

A video from Vanguard Military School, one of the new charter schools. Doesn’t look like their students have an obesity problem!

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Comment69

New Zealand
charter schools

Comments (69)

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wreck1080

The fat ones died.
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March 26, 2014 1:31pm
Ryan Sproull

As a thought experiment, imagine that this charter school additionally taught a Muslim religious curriculum, and the reactions we would get to this promo video.
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March 26, 2014 1:32pm
YesWeDid

Just needs someone yelling ‘This is Sparta’ at the end and then it would be perfect.
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March 26, 2014 1:33pm
ShawnLH

Fantastic. I’m a big fan of military schools. More charter schools please, and faster 🙂
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March 26, 2014 1:37pm
somewhatthoughtful

http://www.vanguard.school.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/vanguard_curr2014-v2.pdf

No arts or science in the curriculum – Just what we ought to be funding.

If dumb shore parents want to fuck their kids up go right ahead, the state should not be paying for it.
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March 26, 2014 1:38pm
ROJ

What are they learning if this is a school?
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March 26, 2014 1:38pm
Ryan Sproull

No arts or science in the curriculum. Just what we ought to be funding.

Ugh. Well, that’s their call.
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March 26, 2014 1:39pm
ShawnLH

“If dumb shore parents want to fuck their kids up go right ahead, the state should not be paying for it.”

The State should not have any role in education at all. Charter schools are a step at least in the right direction.

As to what passes for “ejucashun” in Leftist/Union dominated state schools. Ugh.
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March 26, 2014 1:44pm
Ryan Sproull

As to what passes for “ejucashun” in Leftist/Union dominated state schools. Ugh.

No alternatives to capitalist economics taught in state schools. The more we can get away from that, the better.
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March 26, 2014 1:46pm
stephieboy

No signs of obesity at Vanguard.?
Have you visited it.?
DPF are schools responsible for what their students eat or drink or is Dad and Mum and ultimately the students themselves. Many schools now exclude sugary foods and drinks from their tuck shops and wasn’t it Tony Ryall who felt it was not the government role to decide on these matters.?
I think this and charter ,as well as most other schools ,would feel the same .!
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March 26, 2014 2:03pm
MarkF

To “somewhatthoughtful”
“If dumb shore parents want to fuck their kids up go right ahead”
What about those who come from Waiuku on a Daily Basis must think there is something in it for them as that is no mean trip!
Just maybe you should put a “littlebitmorethoughtful” into your comments before making them.
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March 26, 2014 2:05pm
dime

“No arts or science in the curriculum – Just what we ought to be funding.”

So Dime clicks the link. Stumbles across words like “maths” “science” and “biology”….

But yeah, no arts.. what a fucking tragedy
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March 26, 2014 2:15pm
cubit

The one characteristic readily on show is motivation. You don’t keep subjecting yourself to that type of regime unless you have committment.

If a fair proportion (and I think most will) pop out at the end of the programme better educated, better motivated and basically better citizens than they would have been after unsuitable programmes that they would have endured in the state system then it is worthwhile both for them and NZ society.

After all the alternatives, despite education unionists and other associated liberal academics have not had much success with some of these people in the past.

I don’t give a monkeys if they don’t become lawyers, teachers, politicians, Hr specialists or spin doctors of whom we have too many. I would like to think they just might make bloody good carpenters, brickies, electricians, plumbers and even the odd good sports person. We don’t have enough of them.

Good on Vanguard and more importantly, good on the young people who want to do something with their lives that they want.
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March 26, 2014 2:18pm
ShawnLH

Cubit,

best post of the day so far! 🙂
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March 26, 2014 2:25pm
YesWeDid

‘The one characteristic readily on show is motivation.’

More like obedience.
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March 26, 2014 2:29pm
dime

“If dumb shore parents want to fuck their kids up go right ahead, the state should not be paying for it.”

can we apply that standard to loser parents on the bene? 😀

“sorry, youre a loser, no bene for you!”
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March 26, 2014 2:32pm
Huevon

I wish they had this when I was at school. Looks awesome.

The Lefties are probably worried that this school is some sort of Right-Wing paramilitary training ground (if only….)

Some of those kids need to work on their form in their push ups
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March 26, 2014 2:39pm
ShawnLH

“More like obedience.”

Obedience to orders with regards to difficult tasks requires motivation.
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March 26, 2014 2:40pm
somewhatthoughtful

No, dime, because this is stupid luxury education and nothing but a frivolous and expensive distraction. It makes a mockery of our publicly funded education system and will hopefully have its funding cut the minute labour get into power.

You’ll note I didn’t say the state shouldn’t be paying for education, I said the state shouldn’t be paying for this farce. We have one of the worlds best systems for a reason, this bullshit is not it and merely undermines that.

Also, there’s isn’t any meaningful science there. The only speciality they offer is 6th form bio!!! No chem, no physics, no IT. Fucking useless and doing a disservice to every kid whose idiot parents subject them to this place. Hell even doing a disservice to the army, what good is a recruit who hasn’t done any science at Y13??
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March 26, 2014 4:14pm
Doc

Dime: “But yeah, no arts.. what a fucking tragedy”

I see martial arts in abundance 😉
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March 26, 2014 4:33pm
ShawnLH

“It makes a mockery of our publicly funded education system”

Good. It needs mocking.

“and will hopefully have its funding cut the minute labour get into power.”

No time soon then.

“You’ll note I didn’t say the state shouldn’t be paying for education, I said the state shouldn’t be paying for this farce.”

It should’nt be paying for education at all, but if so then better effective schools such as this.

“We have one of the worlds best systems for a reason,”

We have a crap education system devoted to political correctness, not real education. The claim about our “world class system” is a lie made by comparing it only to other State run systems. All State run education is a rotting corpse. That ours may, and it’s a big may, smell slightly better than some, does not change the fact that it is still a rotting corpse.
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March 26, 2014 4:41pm
mikenmild

You have some non-state excellent systems in mind to provide a comparison?
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March 26, 2014 4:45pm
nasska

The state education system is socialtist rats’ nest of political correctness & feminist ideology. Our young blokes are failing miserably & all the leftist wankers can do is offer more of the same shit dressed up in a slightly different way.

While a ‘military school’ is not going to suit every student not every student is likely to attend one.
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March 26, 2014 4:57pm
bc

Dime, it is a tragedy. It is the arts that have given us Peter Jackson, Lorde, Elanor Catton, etc etc. All the best in their areas of expertise, recognised internationally.
Maybe engage brain before typing next time!
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March 26, 2014 5:36pm
Steve (North Shore)

someoneunthoughtful,
I bet these young people played ‘bullrush’ when they were kids.
Mostly banned now, by soft cocks like you.
Edit, if the young students want art, they could do it in their own time maybe?
SAS soldier performs at the ballet? not fucking likely mate
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March 26, 2014 5:43pm
bc

Shawn, if you think that the state shouldn’t be paying for education, then there is no point trying to reason with you. Education is a human right, and benefits everyone.
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March 26, 2014 5:44pm
bc

Great little propaganda video though, complete with stirring music. Maybe they were inspired by the stuff coming out of North Korea!
Fizzed at the end with a lucklustre haka – where is that nationalistic pride!
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March 26, 2014 5:48pm
itstricky

The State should not have any role in education at all.

How come charter schools get any state funding at all then? Why not let this one just succeed or fail on its own merits?
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March 26, 2014 5:51pm
itstricky

Fizzled at the end with a lucklustre haka – where is that nationalistic pride!

Sssshh don’t tell Manolo he’ll quickly become disenchanted with charter schools.
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March 26, 2014 5:53pm
itstricky

More charter schools please, and faster

When will DPF do a post about the one in Whangaruru that can’t attract any teachers? I guess that will “fail on its own merits” – unless of course they are allowed to co-share with local schools – in which case it will be heralded as a great success? Maybe?
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March 26, 2014 5:57pm
prosper

Why are the teacher unions so vehemently opposed to an alternative education. Are they scared of losing control?
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March 26, 2014 6:02pm
stephieboy

I note the military and militaristic connotations of Vanguard that seems so attractive to the far right as though independent thought and individualism is the real enemy . As noted complete with martial music reminiscent of North Korea.
Charter schools like this need the requirement that their supporters and apologists should put their money where their proverbial mouth is and fund them.
Now why not.?
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March 26, 2014 6:11pm
doggone7

ShawnLH: “We have a crap education system devoted to political correctness, not real education. The claim about our “world class system” is a lie made by comparing it only to other State run systems. All State run education is a rotting corpse. That ours may, and it’s a big may, smell slightly better than some, does not change the fact that it is still a rotting corpse.”

Are these comments proof of what was lacking in our education system at the time the writer went through it, or proof that in spite of schooling some will never have the capacity to find information, take it on board, synthesise it and make a rational response?

The quoted bit is arrant nonsense.
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March 26, 2014 6:13pm
itstricky

Why are the teacher unions so vehemently opposed to an alternative education. Are they scared of losing control?

Why is ACT so vehemently opposed to state education? Is it because they can smell the green backs?
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March 26, 2014 6:16pm
itstricky

Are these comments proof of what was lacking in our education system at the time the writer went through it

An interesting question to ask. Shawn?
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March 26, 2014 6:19pm
Ryan Sproull

When will DPF do a post about the one in Whangaruru that can’t attract any teachers? I guess that will “fail on its own merits” – unless of course they are allowed to co-share with local schools – in which case it will be heralded as a great success? Maybe?

Individual failures are the price of overall progress. The idea is not that schools will succeed because they’re private. The idea is that schooling nationally will improve because the same diversity of approaches that makes failure inevitable also makes progress possible.
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March 26, 2014 6:23pm
nasska

….”Charter schools like this need the requirement that their supporters and apologists should put their money where their proverbial mouth is and fund them.”….

If the state (read all net taxpayers) is going to pay to educate all children for the greater good why shouldn’t there be some choice in the cant or indoctrination that goes with it?

For the Godaddled there are schools that push their own fairy stories, for the Socialists the state schools will indoctrinate the kids with leftist & feminist pap, for the separatists there are Maori immersion schools.

Vanguard is just another flavour.
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March 26, 2014 6:24pm
itstricky

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11224096

Five full time for seventy kids. That sounds like a good ratio. Just imagine if all schools in NZ could command that. Just imagine what happens when they try to scale it outwards and upwards…
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March 26, 2014 6:28pm
ShawnLH

Ha! The cry to “pay for it” is such total hypocrisy. We already have to pay the rotting corpse of State education, without any choice. We are forced to.

So I’ll pay for Charter schools when all the Statist slaves stop forcing me to pay for Union bums pretending to be teachers.
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March 26, 2014 6:32pm
stephieboy

No one forces you to pay anything sunshine.The solution for you, as pointed out elsewhere , is to get out of your airy fairy fantasy Rothbard inspired world , into the real world of political persuasion and influence.
But the 0.005% of Libertariannz and 0.0 % or thereabouts of ACT must be very, very discouraging. Enough to keep you impotently side lined and irrelevant .
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March 26, 2014 6:47pm
ShawnLH

“No one forces you to pay anything sunshine.”

Taxation is COMPULSORY.

The solution for you is to stop stealing from other’s and then covering it up with “everyone’s doing it”

As to blindly following the majority and the status quo, are you a sheep or a man?
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March 26, 2014 6:55pm
doggone7

stephieboy: “…side lined and irrelevant” ?

Probably too busy scouring the local neighbourhood trying to find the sources of the smell and discovering it’s “the rotting corpse of State education.” And going inside and seeing the vitality, growth, learning and excitement and not finding “Union bums pretending to be teachers” but hardworking, skilled, enthusiastic citizens helping kids. Then retreating home, scuttling to the power of the blog to dispense more morsels of sweetness and light. Surely that’s not sidelined and irrelevant?
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March 26, 2014 6:58pm
prosper

Act suggested Charter schools. National implemented it. If Act wanted to make money out of education they would push for more traditional private schools. I repeat why are the teacher unions scared of competition?
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March 26, 2014 7:02pm
bc

Well said doggone7. What the hell is ShawnLH on? I haven’t read such outrageous rubbish presented as “facts” in a long time.
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March 26, 2014 7:07pm
stephieboy

Shawn L H,

Taxation is not compulsory as you imply.

We vote every three years to determine if the governed ( we the voter ) consent to it or lobby parliament to persuade otherwise.

You don’t appear to be a person who is ‘enslaved ” judging by your rants, tants and raves here and no doubt elsewhere.

Doggone . Sidelined and irrelevant,? Certainly the
Libertarianism shawn LH espouse is.!
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March 26, 2014 7:22pm
wikiriwhis business

“No one forces you to pay anything sunshine.”

This guy thinks he owns his home and car . Can’t take him anywhere.
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March 26, 2014 7:28pm
ShawnLH

“Taxation is not compulsory as you imply.”

If I don’t pay I go to prison or get fined. That’s compulsion.

“We vote every three years to determine if the governed”

So if I choose not to vote I won’t have to pay taxes? Er….no. I will still be forced to. That’s compulsion.’

Democracy is not an excuse for stealing and tyranny. Democracy does not make a wrong a right.
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March 26, 2014 7:33pm
Viking2

:Like being reborn. We did most of this at high school back in the days. I recall the only bit missing was the stupid fucking haka.

All good.
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March 26, 2014 7:36pm
griffith

Try not being registered to vote.

That can also result in a trip to court.

😆

Must register the car to drive on road.

Live on NZ registered boat On Auckland harbour master approved swing mooring.

Must supply street address.

Street address must be place of residence.

Hence Griff could not register car without breaking the law.

Requested written authority to directly break the rues and use my normal co address.

Request ignored.

Griff criminal for supplying false details. Also Griffs car registration not legal hence not insurable.
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March 26, 2014 7:46pm
vto

This post and most all comments sum up the right wing perfectly..

scary how history repeats..
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March 26, 2014 7:58pm
tom hunter

If dumb shore parents want to fuck their kids up go right ahead, …

Woah. Now that is a brighter than a thousand suns level of hatred I’ve not seen directed even at other charter schools. Perhaps a commentator name change is in order since that’s not the sort of expression I associate with people who are “somewhat thoughtful”

I wonder why the hatred is so intense in this case? Is it a hangover from those 80’s protests where this was the classic sentiment of the age: “It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the air force has to hold a cake stall to buy a bomber”? Given the sad, little RNZAF we now have I’d say that victory has long been won.

Is it an instinctive, knee-jerk reaction along the lines of this commentator on Vanguard School last year?:

An authoritarian’s wet dream. Pity the kids who get sent there.

Is it simply that modern educationalists can only grudgingly accept things military when its members can be defined as victims and their actions defined as un-thinking, robotic mass murder; unworthy of the terms honour or courage and suitable only for the condemnation of war in particular and violence in general?

Is it the feeling, that having so successfully stamped out any respect for traditional martial values, that to see such things being taught again is regarded as an outrage, with medals, salutes and goosestepping to naturally follow?

Similarly is it anti-male thing, especially the traditional connection between males and those martial values, a connection deemed necessary to smash if peace-loving men are to be produced and wars to be avoided, a connection Vanguard School might actually (gasp) nurture?

Is it the whiff of Americanism, that hotbed of military schools? Is it snobbery and the possibility that the snobbery might be returned, as so well captured here:

… for a good thirty years the rising business classes in the cities had been steering their sons away from the military, as if from a bad smell, and the officer corps had never been held in lower esteem. Well, career officers returned the contempt in trumps.They looked upon themselves as men who lived by higher standards of behavior than civilians, as men who were the bearers and protectors of the most important values of American life, who maintained a sense of discipline while civilians abandoned themselves to hedonism, who maintained a sense of honor while civilians lived by opportunism and greed. Opportunism and greed: there you had your much vaunted corporate business world. Khrushchev was right about one thing: when it came time to hang the capitalist West, an American businessman would sell him the rope.

Whatever it is, it’s visceral hatred and yet another clear window into the minds of some of those we entrust our children’s education to.
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March 26, 2014 8:13pm
itstricky

Individual failures are the price of overall progress. The idea is not that schools will succeed because they’re private. The idea is that schooling nationally will improve because the same diversity of approaches that makes failure inevitable

Ryan, with all due respect I believe you’ve fallen victim to the NZ Inc way of thinking with those statements. Schooling should not be business. Business is not school. Education is not commercial. As said above – it is a public good. What you describe is absolutely fine for a retail company selling goods. I do not buy into the idea that schools opening and closing willy nilly is good for a child’s stable development and education. Not for two seconds.
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March 26, 2014 8:53pm
itstricky

Ha! The cry to “pay for it” is such total hypocrisy. We already have to pay the rotting corpse of State education, without any choice. We are forced to.

I thought it was a cry of “prove it”. I.e. use private funds only to pay for charter schools. They shouldn’t need State backing if they’re really that good.

Did you go to a public school?
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March 26, 2014 8:57pm
itstricky

Act suggested Charter schools. National implemented it. If Act wanted to make money out of education they would push for more traditional private schools. I repeat why are the teacher unions scared of competition?

I was mearly parroting your line. What makes you think you know the minds of the union anymore than I know the minds of ACT? Because you know you’re right? The unions aren’t the ones proposing new schools that are basically identical to State schools but without unionised teachers.
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March 26, 2014 9:01pm
Ben Dover

J E S U S

it is a bit weak – what is military about that

where are the live weapons drills
live firing exercise – hand to hand – grenade throwing – explosives
knife usage – artillery practice – tactics strategy etc etc

it is all inside how about winter at zero degrees

where are the water proof bibles?

and why aren’t they learning how to use these

Lewis Machine and Tool”

Looks great

http://youtu.be/byZPhAVoqdI
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March 26, 2014 9:09pm
prosper

ITSTRICKY
Sorry you’ve lost me. The teacher unions have announced their opposition to charter schools and I don’t understand why they are against trying a different method of education. Are they scared of losing power?
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March 26, 2014 10:52pm
ShawnLH

“Are they scared of losing power?”

Yes. This is really all about the Left’s one size fits all notion of education, no choice and a teaching profession tied to the hip of the Labour party.

Opposition to charter schools is all about the Left’s desire for total power and control.
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March 26, 2014 11:06pm
itstricky

And support of charter schools is all about the right’s desire for power and control. What makes my statement any less correct than yours? Cmon chaps, let’s get a bit more sophisticated than some tired old rhetoric shall we? Or is it that you don’t have anything else? You did go to a public school didn’t you Shawn?
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March 26, 2014 11:44pm
itstricky

Prosper – because it’s the same system. Look at my link above. Can’t find teachers? Oh well use the local State funded tech and the State funded correspondence system. Where’s the difference. Once you ask yourself that question you’ll start asking yourself why you pay for charter schools. Then you might start asking other questions. Or you could spout rhetoric.
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March 26, 2014 11:47pm
Ben Dover

Flame thrower practice anyone
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March 27, 2014 12:02am
ShawnLH

“And support of charter schools is all about the right’s desire for power and control. What makes my statement any less correct than yours?”

The right wants more education diversity and more choice, the opposite of a single state run system, thus the opposite to the Left’s desire for power and control, so no, your claim does not fit the facts. Charter schools can take many forms and provide a wide range of educational choices for parents. Why is the Left so terrified of real educational choice advocated by the Right? Power and control.

“You did go to a public school didn’t you Shawn?”

Yes. Utter crap. I largely educated myself as a result.
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March 27, 2014 12:37am
ShawnLH

” Oh well use the local State funded tech and the State funded correspondence system. Where’s the difference. Once you ask yourself that question you’ll start asking yourself why you pay for charter schools.”

For exactly that reason. The current system allows for no genuine diversity and choice. Privatizing teacher education should be the next step.
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March 27, 2014 12:41am
bc

ShawnLH: “I largely educated myself”

So that explains it 🙂
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March 27, 2014 8:17am
itstricky

The right wants more education diversity and more choice, the opposite of a single state run system, thus the opposite to the Left’s desire for power and control, so no, your claim does not fit the facts.

The facts? You mean because you just know that “the right” have no alterior motive but “the left” do? It couldn’t possibly be that “the left” don’t think privatised education because they don’t think it is the best scheme for education, could it? I mean fundamentally a poll of average Joes would tell you that pretty quickly. My view is that both sides want the best system – I don’t think privatisation is best.

You’d be bogged way down in your us versus them evil versus good quagmire to believe anything else. And if you did you should probably consider whether you should apply your “rational thinking” to both sides of the argument – not just the one that you think belongs to you. If you largely taught yourself all I can say is ‘don’t believe anything you read on The Internet’
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March 27, 2014 9:16am
itstricky

For exactly that reason. The current system allows for no genuine diversity and choice.

But if charter schools are so good why do they have to fall back on state resources? If state resources weren’t there in your ideal privatised world what would happen to this school right now? I mean this is the whole thing right? Scrap it now. Gone tomorrow. This charter school experiment is great – two months in and one of the five has failed already.

Currently we have situation where these schools are given State funds, however. So we take the funds from this failed school, we give them to existing schools and we allow them to better their teacher student ratios or to offer other classes or whatever you think is best today or whatever you decide is best tomorrow. Far more efficient.
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March 27, 2014 9:29am
ShawnLH

“But if charter schools are so good why do they have to fall back on state resources?”

They don’t HAVE to, that is simply the way they are set up, as “public-private” intitiatives. It’s not ideal (to me) but it is al least a step in the right direction, and your question could also be asked of the State system.

“two months in and one of the five has failed already.”

Our State education is filled with failed schools. The State hides this by continuing to fund them, at the expense of good education, at the expense of the children. Labour and the Greens are happy to keep poor children in failed schools so long as their union cronies are happy and being paid. The advantage with Charter schools is that if one fails, everybody knows.

” Far more efficient.”

There is nothing efficient about State education. There is never anything efficient about any system that is protected from the discipline of the market by being propped up with taxpayer dollars.
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March 27, 2014 9:38am
griffith

support of charter schools is all about

1 the right’s

you see this as left/ right political battle not education Why.

2 desire for power.

The range of schools enabled is a move deliberately devolving the education monolith from involvement in all facets of state sanctioned eduction. The power you accuse the right of stealing when the policy is actually spreading power around to more diverse interest than the often perverse academics of the eduction ministry.

3 and control.

Control and the education sectors special interest groups and their reaction to any loss of over-riding power is your problem judging by the contents your posts.
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March 27, 2014 9:45am
ShawnLH

I’m going to explode Griffs brain and agree with him. 🙂

It should be noted that there is growing support from some on the Left in the US for charter schools, because the children of the poor, especially African-Americans, do measurably better in Charter schools than in full public schools.
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March 27, 2014 9:51am
itstricky

abour and the Greens are happy to keep poor children in failed schools so long as their union cronies are happy and being paid. The advantage with Charter schools is that if one fails, everybody knows.

Depends what you mean by failed I guess and also whether anyone has tried to fix them or can fix them. But I fail to see your privatisation dream making that any better or worse. When private schools fail (as they would) what do you do? Remember how geographically diverse NZ is in rural areas.

There is never anything efficient about any system that is protected from the discipline of the market

Although there are a lot of things ‘the market’ is good for, education is not one of them. I don’t think I need to remind you that there is *only* one reason why ‘the market’ and companies exist. To make money. That is fundamentally incompatible with the needs of children and society.

Griff

The power you accuse the right of stealing when the policy is actually spreading power around to more diverse interest than the often perverse academics of the eduction ministry.

And yet charter schools are controlled by the ministry. So that’s kind of a whack statement. And you always have to have them controlled by some body otherwise you’ll get completely inconsistent results across the board for the things schools should concentrate on – the R’s of reading, writing and arithmetic. Not military training. Not soccer. Completely at odds with the Government’s National Standards course. These schools.over here must do that but these others are allowed to do what they want. What education do you think comes out of that?

Control and the education sectors special interest groups and their reaction to any loss of over-riding power is your problem judging by the contents your posts.

I have no need to. I do not belong to any of those groups. I do recognise a disaster in the making however pushed by ideological thinking. How could ‘the market’ ever provide what was required for kids. But I guess if I am blinkered, you are just as blinkered in your belief in ‘the market’
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