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March 6, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 6 March 2014

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General Debate

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freemark

Thanks Judith, but you specifically mentioned somewhere that you supported Norman’s comments regarding Craig’s attitude towards women (ie that they should be in the kitchen) and that was a reason you felt you could label him sexist or misogynist or something similar.
I am genuinely interested in why you hold that attitude about him – I have been labelled these things before and I believe that they are often used highly dishonestly to play the man not the ball so to speak.
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March 6, 2014 1:39pm
Gulag1917

The Psychological Profile of President Obama
http://beforeitsnews.com/obama/2013/12/the-psychological-profile-of-president-obama-2458548.html
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March 6, 2014 1:49pm
kowtow

judith

I stuff up my apostrophe’s all the time.

But there’s a big difference ‘tween bought and brought.It’s a very common and very lazy speech affectation that a lot of folk do these days and it has now crossed over to how the word is spelled. I heard a barrister doing it on the radio the other day,standards really are falling.

I’m not bullying either …..if you see all opposition and disagreement ,as well as a bit of fun , as bullying then you rally are a sensitive petal.
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March 6, 2014 1:52pm
Tauhei Notts

It’s General debate so I can post this. I wish I had the information technology skills to do a link, but I do not have those skills.
The Ajuntament de Barcelona has signs on the streets saying;
GRAFFITY
SUCKS LIKE
DEEP THROAT.
Note the spelling. I think the Ajuntament is the Spanish term for the Barcelona City Council. Linda Lovelace, like Elvis, will never die.
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March 6, 2014 2:04pm
Don the Kiwi

Careful Judith.

You’ll entice Johnboy to come on and want to pat you on the tush. 😉
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March 6, 2014 2:04pm
Andrei

What a surprise eh OECD Kiwi, the snipers that undermined the peace deal were from the peaceful maidan protesters.

Silly Western clods are finding out it is easy to break things – not so easy to put them back together again.

You’ld think they’d have learned by now with Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, Libya and Syria that their “color” revolutions and “spring” things do not lead to outbreaks of democracy, only to chaos and disorder.
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March 6, 2014 2:12pm
Judith

rally are a sensitive petal.

“Rally old chap’? Is that a high class english accent you have there!

Hey, I spend most of my time laughing at what is said to me – so it will never get me down. I have no problem with being called names, I often introduce myself a ‘opinionated bitch at your service’ – the one thing that peeves me off though, is when people judge their entire opinion based on the fact that I think DB is innocent. I mean really (or rally) who basis their entire opinion of someone on one issue?

I just get a little sick of the old boys club in here. If people don’t want alternative opinions to their own, then why have open membership. Anyone that comes here to have their back patted and be constantly agreed with, should really find an exclusive membership blog – as long as its open, you’re going to get people that disagree with you.

The one thing I am is frank – if I’m wrong, I will admit it, and often have, but people seem to ‘miss’ those occasions.
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March 6, 2014 2:26pm
Judith

@ Don the Kiwi (1,265 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 2:04 pm

Nah, it’s almost tupping time – he’ll be otherwise engaged. 🙂
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March 6, 2014 2:29pm
stephieboy

Andrei,

Russia wags the The Dog with Ukraine Disinformation campaign ,

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-big-lie-ukraine/25286568.html
and whose really behind Synagogue attacks in Ukraine,

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/03/who-s-really-behind-ukraine-s-synagogue-attacks.html

Did you follow up my previous post re Liz Wahl resigning from RT disgusted at Kremlin manipulations and distortions re Ukraine /???
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March 6, 2014 2:39pm
Manolo

P.G. assures me Colin was on board:
http://travel.msn.co.nz/travelnews/8810003/pilot-told-cockpit-no-place-for-a-woman

Being a female pilot in a male-dominated industry, Carey Stacey is used to sexist comments but nothing could have prepared her for the shocking note she received on Sunday.

The message scrawled on a napkin addressed to the “captain”, began with the warning, “the cockpit of an airliner is no place for a woman”.
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March 6, 2014 2:39pm
kowtow

judith .You’re entitled to your opinion ,but how’s your cooking and ironing?

Parallel parking,reversing a trailer?
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March 6, 2014 2:41pm
Manolo

To Stephieboy’s profound and bitter disappointment: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/05/fox-news-poll-obama-approval-hits-new-low-falls-in-key-areas/
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March 6, 2014 2:43pm
Judith

@ kowtow

Cooking… ok when I’m in the mood – great chocolate cake – scones would be better on the rim of a car wheel.

Ironing? umm what’s that?

Parallel parking – never used to be a problem until I bought (not brought) a VE commodore – was a nightmare as it was so high in the rear. Gladly traded it for a VF which has a reversing camera.

Reversing a trailer – family has a farm – could reverse a tractor and trailer before I could drive a car – at 10 used to drive the truck to pick up hay too! Having said that, I can’t remember when I last reversed a trailer, so hopefully its like riding a bike and I haven’t forgotten how.

Now how about you? How’s your lawnmowing, gardening, handyman skills and grip? Can you drop and give me 50? 🙂
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March 6, 2014 2:46pm
kowtow

I could drop, but that would be all you get.
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March 6, 2014 2:50pm
stephieboy

No disappointments Manolo but the facts of political life. I would be interested to see how Fox conducted the poll and what solutions they and the far right Tea Party are offering in terms of viable solutions for the US economy .
It will undoubtedly; be the usual libertarian drivel and dross about abolishing the Fed and DC etc .
But one thing is for sure ,no president has received such intense critical scrutiny based on both the issue of his race and the utterly bogus and fraudulent Birther claims about ,” The Kenyan” etc.
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March 6, 2014 2:55pm
kowtow

What about the Mick catholic JFK?

Romney got heaps of shit for being a Marmite.

And by golly there was a lot of muck raking about GwB’s air natioanl guard AWolness,which in the end never amounted to anything.

Obummer made/makes race an issue and his family are from kenya. In my book that makes you at least more than a little ‘Kenyan”.
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March 6, 2014 3:21pm
stephieboy

Kow tow, the facts are the JFK did get heaps for being Catholic ( Mick )and it helps to explain the very narrow margin between Nixon and him in the Presidential race . The narrowest ever.
Obama does not make race an issue.!
Its you,Manolo, Birthers etc you can’t stand the thought of a Black family being in the white house.!
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March 6, 2014 3:43pm
Andrei

stephieboy – you can post all the Russophobic links you like but it wont alter the facts that the USA has done something incredibly stupid in Eastern Europe, so fricken stupid it defies belief and potentially a lot of blood may be spilled.

Now Vladimir Putin has acted, as he had to and thus far with remarkable restraint.

What the hell does it matter if an American employee of a Russian TV channel gets her 15 minutes of fame by resigning during the count down to what maybe WW3?
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March 6, 2014 3:45pm
goldnkiwi

Judith (5,033 comments) says:

March 6th, 2014 at 9:02 am

@ All_on_Red (833 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 8:56 am

Red, you have spent the last few minutes talking down to me and being insulting, but when you get it in return, you complain and don’t like it. Is there something in the rules that say its alright for you and your team of ‘little men’ to do, but I’m not allowed to respond in like?

No you aren’t getting to me at all – I actually find it quite stimulating and funny to see how ‘defensive’ you all are when your poster boy is criticised – nothing like a but of ‘man love’ and ‘boy crush’ to bring out the beast in a guy – aye

Freudian slip 😉 “nothing like a but of ‘man love’ and ‘boy crush’ to bring out the beast in a guy – aye”

I had to laugh about the bought and brought, then the reply to the rally (really), to then have included in that diatribe a basis instead of bases @2.26. Such fun lol. 😉
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March 6, 2014 3:48pm
Judith

@ goldnkiwi (613 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 3:48 pm

I am glad something made you laugh, I’m sure you probably laugh a lot – mostly at nothing. I do hope you’ve got some teeth now. Although if you do, they clearly don’t fit well, because your bite is as weak as ever.

Again I am honored that with so many posts you troll through until you can find something of mine to comment on – obsessed much? In all the topics that there are to comment about – wow – you must have a very shallow mindset.
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March 6, 2014 3:54pm
goldnkiwi

Love pots, kettles and the colour black 😉 and can recognise a pompous ass when I see one lol.
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March 6, 2014 3:58pm
Manolo

The poor divas at The sub-Standard are losing the plot and throwing hissy tantrums.
Here some words of the effeminate Lynn Prentice:

[lprent: Get off your lazy arse and do it yourself. Why do you want us to do your work for you? Just like you appear to be too pig ignorant to read the about on this site. The last section was specifically written for gormless lazy fuckwits like yourself.]
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March 6, 2014 4:01pm
Manolo

Its you,Manolo, Birthers etc you can’t stand the thought of a Black family being in the white house.!

Nothing to do with the Messiah’s skin colour, but with the fact he’s a lying incompetent socialist in charge of the most powerful country on Earth.

A Trojan horse is a better description of your hero.
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March 6, 2014 4:05pm
wikiriwhis business

“critical scrutiny based on both the issue of his race and the utterly bogus and fraudulent Birther claims about ,” The Kenyan” etc.”

Obama has openly declared his intention of running for a third term despite that being unconstitutional.

A war with Russia would totally suit that scenario. He would be able to enforce a state of emergency and declare martial law. Then would then be legally allowed to suspend elections until who knows when.

The Patriot Act 2 certainly covers a lot of ground concerning what the state can shut down and marginalise. In fact, there’s nothing the state cannot control in the US.
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March 6, 2014 4:30pm
stephieboy

wikiriwhis business ,
It’s my understanding that it will be constitutionally impossible for Obama to stand for a third term. The Republicans were able to amend the Constitution not long before FDR died to limit the tern of an incumbent to two terms.
That still stands.
A war with Russia would not suit Obama’s scenario whatever that maybe. Even FDR and Truman were not able to nor had the inclination to suspend elections etc during WW2.
Just who initiated the Patriot Act 2.?

Manolo , from your past postings the Colour of Obama’s skin is a very relevant factor in your rants and raging.
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March 6, 2014 4:39pm
kowtow

judith@354

Surely one trawls through comments ,not “trolls” through ,unless of course one is kea when one rally is a troll.
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March 6, 2014 5:01pm
Judith

@ kowtow (6,469 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 5:01 pm

Oh no, trolls through was definitely the right word in this case, believe me, both ascetically and behaviorally IMO.

So where is the lovely Kea lately, don’t tell me he’s become extinct? He hasn’t posted since I came back from holiday.
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March 6, 2014 5:13pm
nasska

Judith

Not extinct…..just endangered.

Regrettably he lost the plot on a thread a few weeks ago & one of the Godaddled must have narked.

DPF banned him for two months so he should be back mid April.
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March 6, 2014 5:42pm
Lucia Maria

DPF’s demerit system is a bit harsh, in that if someone is having a meltdown, then a whole lot of demerits can be accumulated in a very short time without the person being given a chance to notice and maybe, restrain themselves. Also, the same behaviour can be exhibited without any sort of effect, and then all of a sudden – BAM!

It is a bit odd, though, that Kea has not gone anywhere else to comment in the meantime. Plenty of options on the political blogs.
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March 6, 2014 6:16pm
Reid

Interesting take on the Dow. According to this guy, Putin’s playing the rally so he can tank it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27aA-hKabew&list=UUoOhzyG-i7IMBEMbyRlI66g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiNiRjewYbw&list=UUoOhzyG-i7IMBEMbyRlI66g

And a summary of the colour revolution technique.

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/03/color-revolutions-101-making-of.html

Putin’s an interesting character. His moves are seemingly against the NWO PTB but he’s NWO through and through.

Regrettably he lost the plot on a thread a few weeks ago & one of the Godaddled must have narked.

Which thread nasska?
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March 6, 2014 6:20pm
Steve (North Shore)

Judith = Pete George in drag. Does Judith know she is Pete george?
Does Pete George know he is Judith? Like hours in the sandglass, so are the daze of our lives
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March 6, 2014 6:24pm
nasska

I didn’t keep a note of which thread Reid but it was the evening of 9th Feb.
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March 6, 2014 6:26pm
kowtow

kea is not a he.

She is a troll. Many believe to be Marni something or other.
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March 6, 2014 6:29pm
stephieboy

Reid , Putin’s is an interesting character given his KGB genealogy, etc

https://cpj.org/killed/europe/russia/

NWO. ????
and you’ll just love this,

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/03/05/rt-anchor-quits-on-air.html
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March 6, 2014 6:29pm
wikiriwhis business

SCANDAL! Does Hillary Clinton Have Brain Cancer?

In today’s video, Christopher Greene of AMTV reports on a rumour that Hillary Clinton has brain cancer.
http://www.amtvmedia.com/re-direct-sc…
[SOURCES]

Whispers persist that Hillary won’t run: Health may be worse than disclosed

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/28/rum…

What Hillary Clinton’s health means for 2016
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/t…

Hillary Clinton does NOT have brain cancer: Officials slam ‘nonsense’ claims debilitating illness was behind collapse and decision to step down

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic…

.
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March 6, 2014 6:32pm
wikiriwhis business

Federal Reserve to Increase QE Above $85 Billion

In today’s video, Christopher Greene of AMTV reports on QE infinity and the Federal Reserve ponzi scheme.
http://www.amtvmedia.com/re-direct-fe…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8iQSBHU_hQ
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March 6, 2014 6:34pm
freemark

Hi Judith
I’ve patiently waited for an answer to my polite questions regarding what Craig has said.
Shall I assume then that he didn’t really say anything that would trigger your and Russel’s accusations that he is somehow sexist or misogynistic?
Should we assume that you just assert that someone who has differing views than you on homosexuality, religion, morality, abortion etc must think that a woman’s place is in the kitchen?
I think it is just hate speech on your part, prove me wrong?
But on abortion as well – when people assert that it is a woman’s right to her body etc, do you think that the sperm donator to the pregnancy should have a say in a termination decision?
I am genuinely interested in your views.
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March 6, 2014 6:39pm
Judith

@ Steve (North Shore) (4,233 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 6:24 pm

I am? Well it may interest you to know if I’m Pete George, he’s been castrated and miraculously managed to give birth!
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March 6, 2014 6:41pm
Judith

@ freemark (291 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 6:39 pm

FFS, his comments were all over the bloody media, if you can’t find them, bigger fool you.

If the situation was reversed would you go looking for a link for me – no, I didn’t think so.

What do I think about sperm donors – I think they need to think a hell of a lot more about the relationship they are forming before they get involved, because no, they have no rights to tell a woman what to do. She is the one who has to carry the child, give birth etc. He cannot do that for her. It is she that has the financial burden if she is unable to work etc. Sorry, but he needs to think about that before donating.

PS if it is just hate speech on my part, then how come there are so many others commenting on other places on the web and in the media, or is that me too?
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March 6, 2014 6:43pm
stephieboy

wikiriwhis business ,

Hilary Clinton Brain Cancer rumours.??

None of your links work but this might,

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/02/28/daily-caller-trolls-supermarket-tabloids-for-hi/198276

But your point.?
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March 6, 2014 6:46pm
thedavincimode

stephieboy

I’m hardly a Putin cheerleader but stand back and look at what he is doing relative the US track record of protecting whatever it considers to be in its national interest. That’s the hypocrisy right there – what would the US do in the same situation? Well, we already know because the US has done it. What would the US expect of Obama? So then, why would the blithering idiot Obama not be able to work out what Putin’s likely response would be and why should he not expect Putin to laugh in his general direction when big ears threatens “consequences” after he sat there watching his Libyan embassy get raised and his ambassador get murdered.

Obama is the international equivalent of Viscount Cunners. Plenty of talk, plenty of fuckups, no trousers, intelligent but incredibly stupid at the same time. He is a disaster zone and it is no wonder that yanks you talk to cringe with embarrassment.
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March 6, 2014 6:51pm
wikiriwhis business

But your point.?

Thanks fior the link Stephieboy.

Ma point is in the vid. Hillary is guaranteed to win in 2016. She may not even have the health to contest.

Will that help the Repubs??

Hilary is very valid in the world today
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March 6, 2014 6:57pm
wikiriwhis business

Bitcoin CEO Found Dead in Her Home Of Apparent “Suicide” – The Free Patriot

https://www.facebook.com/#!/tim.wikiriwhi/posts/744085118959494?notif_t=close_friend_activity

another financial top dog found dead…another suicide

Why are wealthy successful people all comiting suicide at the same time ??
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March 6, 2014 6:59pm
freemark

Thanks Judith, but I can’t find any statement from Craig anywhere that would give any indication that he thinks women should be in the kitchen – that’s why I was hoping you could back up your comments on that. It seems that you can’t.
So are you saying that if a couple have sex and a pregnancy ensues it is only the female that has a choice whether a child is born or not? Is an “accidental”pregnancy only the fault/responsibility of the male, but then he has no choice in the matter of whether it is terminated or not?
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March 6, 2014 7:04pm
griffith

Try that again
.
.
I am Griff
I am happy to take on griffs demerits under this id
Lookout wingnuts 😆
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March 6, 2014 7:11pm
nasska

freemark

If a literal transcript of Colin Craig stating that “a woman’s place is in the kitchen” existed then it is obvious that the thin skinned one wouldn’t be suing the Green’s co leader.

What is certain is that Mr Craig is a traditionalist. Witness a recent twitter comment:

….”Colin Craig @ColinCraigNZ

Gender differences do matter, and so do the roles modelled to us by our parents. No regrets in stating the obvious.
3:43 PM – 27 Jul 2012″…..

The treat we have in store will be Norman’s legal team dredging up this & every other utterance the CCCP leader has ever made about a woman’s place in society. By the time they’ve finished with him he’ll be lucky to get the votes of six women from the entire voting population of NZ.
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March 6, 2014 7:17pm
calendar girl

It’s embarrassing to see stage-managed photos of PM John Key mopping up a flooded floor in Christchurch – wearing a suit!

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/news-gallery/photo/-/21849328/pm-tours-flood-hit-christchurch/21849382/

Why can’t political minders & PR people understand, intuitively, that this kind of contrived photo op is belittling to a leader’s public image?
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March 6, 2014 7:26pm
wikiriwhis business

.Bitcoin 2012 London: Max Keiser .

Max Keiser speaks “On Corporations and the American School of Economics”, at London Bitcoin Conference 2012.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEHIOi8iXqE

Amazing knowledge you’ll never read in the MSM
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March 6, 2014 7:29pm
Viking2

For those who haven ‘t heard, Washington State has passed both laws – gay marriage and legalised marijuana.

The fact that gay marriage and marijuana were legalised on the same day makes perfect biblical sense because Leviticus 20:13

says “If a man lies with another man they should be stoned.”

We just hadn’t interpreted it correctly before!
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March 6, 2014 7:32pm
kowtow

Why can’t the politico figure that out for himself,after all he’s meant to be the leader,the guy running the show?

But I agree if these guys were themselves more (like Colin Craig),instead of taking the lead from think tanks and PR spin wallahs the public may take to them more than we do.

Though to be fair to Key he is generally more of his own man than most of the professional permanent politicians.Of which of course he ‘s not.
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March 6, 2014 7:33pm
nasska

What the NZ conservatives really want…..

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/53e8rzav59858tr/Conservonutter%202.jpg
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March 6, 2014 7:37pm
freemark

“gender differences do matter”.. I guess they often do when buying shoes… but is that it?
Apparently they do when decisions are to be made around having babies too.
I suspect Judith doesn’t really like men..unless they are gay, or emasculated, or apologists.
She’s definitely not alone in that however, by the amount of anti-man hate speech out there, and man-bans.
It will be an interesting case however..does anyone know if Norman has kids..or many of the Greens?
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March 6, 2014 7:48pm
Judith

@ freemark (293 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 7:04 pm

Just a bloody minute, you asked me whether a sperm donor has any rights, and suddenly you are transferring my answer to signify that it is the same for a couple in a committed relationship or similar?

You aren’t a politician are you? The two things are very very different. If you want to abuse me, go ahead, but no reason to lie your way and trying to find an excuse to do so.

You take something I’ve said, refer it to another situation and decide as I don’t like Colin Craig, I must not like men?

The father of my five children might tell you otherwise, unfortunately he is asleep in the chair after working a full day and having a meal that yes, I cooked, which I believe I should have done as he was out working a full day, whilst I only worked four hours.

To judge a person by what they say on a blog is a really stupid thing to do, especially when you know absolutely zilch about them. I stand up for women’s right to equality – not supremacy.

You aren’t clever twisting replies you get – doing that is dishonest and it makes a mockery of your whole argument.
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March 6, 2014 7:55pm
nasska

My mate couldn’t handle living with his wife any longer so last week he hired a hitman.

RIP Paddy.
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March 6, 2014 8:04pm
Judith

@ nasska (9,092 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 7:37 pm

As I have said time and time again. I suspect Mr Craig is trying too hard to fill in the gaps that he thinks will get him votes. He can’t as your link has pointed out, all he has done is complicate and contradict his own message.

I do not believe Craig has what it takes to be a politician. I have no doubt that he is probably a nice guy, and doesn’t have his wife tied up, barefooted and pregnant, to the kitchen table. He is trying to turn back the clock and wants society to revert to the days of old, when yes, I’m first to admit, most communities were nicer places. Unfortunately he hasn’t factored in the changes in technology, shortages of resources and a general change in consumer habits and so on. All of which drive society, and prevent the ways of old days being compatible with current society.

He will gain some ground, simply because there is no strong viable alternative to National, but in the long run, he’ll fail – dismally.
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March 6, 2014 8:05pm
nasska

You’re probably right Judith & Mr Craig is probably a decent person & a good neighbour.

This although is politics & in that sense I wouldn’t piss down his throat if his spleen was on fire.
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March 6, 2014 8:15pm
Rowan

Judith @ 5.13
Unfortunately he isn’t extinct and I wonder what more he has to do for DPF to make the ban permanent, he was starting to get all dotcommie and would have a major melt down any time someone challenged his views or returned the abuse back at him so David has kindly given us all two months rest from his bird-brain.
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March 6, 2014 8:22pm
freemark

Judith
“Just a bloody minute, you asked me whether a sperm donor has any rights, and suddenly you are transferring my answer to signify that it is the same for a couple in a committed relationship or similar?”
I don’t think so, I was asking questions. If my assumptions were wrong, so have yours been. No abuse though, so take a chill pill.
“What do I think about sperm donors – I think they need to think a hell of a lot more about the relationship they are forming before they get involved, because no, they have no rights to tell a woman what to do. She is the one who has to carry the child, give birth etc. He cannot do that for her. It is she that has the financial burden if she is unable to work etc. Sorry, but he needs to think about that before donating.”
Maybe we are at cross purposes.. when I said sperm donor I meant the male part of a fuck/shag/lovemaking/coitus..whatever we call it.
But I’m interested in exploring the way you think about these things, and the differences you see in decision making rights.
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March 6, 2014 8:25pm
cha

Things Ukrainian.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116857/british-sanctions-russia-would-be-bad-londons-economy

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/opinion/friedman-why-putin-doesnt-respect-us.html?ref=thomaslfriedman&_r=0

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/03/ukraine-putin-tv-and-the-big-lie-104261.html?ml=m_u3_1#.UxfHLM7lbAL
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March 6, 2014 8:35pm
Judith

@ freemark

I thought you were referring to actual sperm donors, and I don’t believe they have any say whatsoever, regarding what the receiver of the sperm does with any resulting pregnancy.

As far as one nighters, casual sex – I’m sorry but I think the same applies. Unless there is an ongoing relationship which involves a commitment to each other, then should a woman decide not to go through with an unwanted pregnancy, that choice is hers, providing she meets the legal criteria.

I do NOT believe that abortion should be a method of contraception. There are plenty of adequate methods of contraception that should be employed. However, if a woman is suffering health, including mental health issues then abortion in limited circumstances should be available, but only up to 3 months gestation. If a woman is suffering in some way, then I believe it is her choice. A woman carrying a baby when she is neither emotionally or mentally able to, is never going to end well, for either the baby or the mother. I do not and never will support stranger adoption – because I do not believe it is fair to the child.

As far as the father is concerned, the woman’s health should take priority. If the couple are in a committed relationship, then I think the father has a say, up to a certain point. I believe in those situations the couple should have to see a mediator, who attempts to solve the difficulties with the ultimate aim of assisting the couple to continue with the pregnancy and either staying together or one or the other committing to raising the child. However if that can’t be achieved, then I revert to the same argument, that as the woman must carry the baby, then if she meets the criteria for a termination, then that is ultimately her choice.

There are far too many children bought into this world that are not loved or cared for sufficiently, many of whom end up suffering and dead from the violence of being caught up in dysfunctional families. It takes a village to raise a child – without that ‘village’, they suffer. In some cases it is better not to ‘be’ than to ‘be abused’.
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March 6, 2014 8:39pm
Steve (North Shore)

Goodnight Pete/Judith.
Is Pete sick? he has not been here today
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March 6, 2014 8:46pm
nasska

….”There are far too many children bought into this world that are not loved or cared for sufficiently, many of whom end up suffering and dead from the violence of being caught up in dysfunctional families.”…..

Godnutters…..looking after the foetus from conception until birth. After that you’re on your own baby!
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March 6, 2014 8:47pm
Judith

@ steve

Goodnight Steve – please try not to fantasise too much about who is or isn’t – we wouldn’t want you making a mess of the sheets with your active imagination. Sweet dreams.
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March 6, 2014 8:49pm
Ryan Sproull

There are far too many children bought into this world that are not loved or cared for sufficiently, many of whom end up suffering and dead from the violence of being caught up in dysfunctional families. It takes a village to raise a child – without that ‘village’, they suffer. In some cases it is better not to ‘be’ than to ‘be abused’.

Judith,

Where do you stand on the humane euthanasia of 2-month-olds living in dysfunctional families?
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March 6, 2014 8:49pm
Reid

Judith Your 8.39 is a common view but I’m afraid it’s always sounded to me like one of the laws from Animal Farm:

All animals are equal but some are more equal than others.
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March 6, 2014 8:54pm
Judith

@ Ryan Sproull (6,323 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 8:49 pm

I support euthanasia of those mentally and mature enough who are facing terminal illness and painful suffering.

As far as children are concerned, I haven’t given it a lot of thought, but unless that child was terminally ill, then I would advocate they be removed from the family and placed with care. HOWEVER, foster parenting is fraught with problems, just as often keeping the child within extended family can also be problematic.

I personally believe that leaving a child in the same environment seldom works – either.

The only answer, and it is only a long term one is to teach those who do not get the correct example from their parents, what it takes to be a good parent, and get the message through to them, that if they can’t provide what it takes, then chose never to have children.

I have a friend that felt he could never provide a child what it take and chose serialization, to ensure there were no mistakes. I wish more would decide the same – it would solve a lot of social problems.
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March 6, 2014 8:57pm
Pete George

Parable farm:
God loves everyone equally…until you die.
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March 6, 2014 9:00pm
Judith

@ Reid (15,057 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 8:54 pm

I believe we are just socialised animals anyway Reid. I’m sorry but I am not a creationalist.
Although we are socialised, there are animal traits that still exist within us, which is why we have the troubles we do in society. Some cope with socialisation better than others.
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March 6, 2014 9:02pm
Reid

Have you ever noticed that animals are social creatures as well Judith?

The trait that distinguishes us is not socialisation, it’s conceptualisation. The ability to imagine. All other species operate in the here and now, reacting to stimulus.

But what does that have to do with what we were discussing?
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March 6, 2014 9:08pm
Judith

@ Reid (15,058 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 9:08 pm

I don’t agree, I believe other animals can conceptualize, perhaps not anywhere near as advanced as humans, but anyone that has observed some species can see that. For example, the elephants reaction to death and ‘elephant graveyards’.

If humans can evolve like they have, there is no reason not to believe that other animal species cannot also develop certain abilities albeit less developed ones.
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March 6, 2014 9:14pm
Reid

Anyway, a lot of truth in this.

http://rense.com/1.imagesH/steak-(R).jpg
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March 6, 2014 9:14pm
Judith

I just don’t seem to be able to get enthusiastic about the current situation in the Crimea. It seems like my whole life there has been on going hot and cold relations surrounding Russia and the rest of the world.

Perhaps I’ve got complacent, but this all seems a bit ‘ho hum’ here we go again! I wish they’d just let the girls sort it out – we’d have it done in a day, and everyone would be wearing much better outfits by evening.
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March 6, 2014 9:20pm
Reid

Judy Walkman, a professional genealogy researcher in southern California , was doing some personal work on her own family tree. She discovered that Senator Harry Reid’s great-great uncle, Remus Reid, was hanged for horse stealing and train robbery in Montana , in 1889. Both Judy and Harry Reid share this common ancestor.

…

So Judy recently e-mailed Senator Harry Reid for information about their great-great uncle.

Believe it or not, Harry Reid’s staff sent back the following biographical sketch for her genealogy research:

“Remus Reid was a famous cowboy in the Montana Territory . His business empire grew to include acquisition of valuable equestrian assets and intimate dealings with the Montana railroad. Beginning in 1883, he devoted several years of his life to government service, finally taking leave to resume his dealings with the railroad. In 1887, he was a key player in a vital investigation run by the renowned Pinkerton Detective Agency. In 1889,Remus passed away during an important civic function held in his honor when the platform upon which he was standing collapsed.”

Now THAT’s how its done, folks! That’s real Political Spin!

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=92125
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March 6, 2014 9:21pm
freemark

Thanks for the answer Judith, & comments others. It’s an interesting debate and I guess we are all influenced by our history/decisions/experiences/ideology.
Someone suggested once that people should be offered a sum of money to be sterilised..has it’s merits I guess.
Personally I feel that a woman’s ability (and right??) to bear and raise a child alone and practically deny the father (& the child) the opportunity to be together (where a male doesn’t realistically have that choice) is a pretty good balance against the perceived advantages of males or patriarchy. I enjoy a healthy r/ship with my (planned x 2) kid’s Mother, and get to spend a fair bit of time with them, but to a certain degree it is at her whim despite legislation & the FC.
I feel very sorry for the guys that don’t have that, yet have had no legal power in any decision for or against termination, or where their resultant offspring live, or who they live with.. yet are forced to contribute (sometimes cripplingly) to the finances of the mother. A couple of the young guys working for me have found (or put) themselves in really shit situations having had very little ability to influence any of it.
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March 6, 2014 9:22pm
kowtow

judith

children “bought” into the world!

Now you’re takin di piss.
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March 6, 2014 9:24pm
Judith

@ freemark

Oh don’t get me wrong, I have friends that have played the game and used their children as pawns in games to get back at their husbands and ex-partners. It is not an admirable female trait – what we lack in physical strength we certainly make up for in the ability to hold a grudge.

As I tell people (male friends) that have been caught up in this kind of situation “sit tight”, one day that child will be a teenager and they will want to know you. Whatever you do, let that child know you love them, and when they want to know you, you will be there for them”.

Children are not and should not ever be used as property to be bargained over – they need input from both parents (providing of course they are both capable parents).
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March 6, 2014 9:27pm
Judith

@ kowtow (6,472 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 9:24 pm

I’m just a shocking typist – there are mistakes in all my comments, either grammatical or spelling, if I take the time to read back over it, I fix the mistakes, but I’m doing three things at once here – watching TV, finishing a review and commenting here – I can assure you I’m not superwoman, my knickers stay under my outer garments!
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March 6, 2014 9:30pm
nasska

This link should prove useful for the pedants amongst us.

Ref: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/using-capital-letters
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March 6, 2014 9:34pm
Judith

Too late to teach this old dog new tricks.

However I found this statement on that site quite refreshing “We use cookies to enhance your experience on our website”.

I use cookies to enhance the ol’ boys experience of life with me – it seems me and the oxford dictionary do have something in common after all.
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March 6, 2014 9:37pm
Reid

I just don’t seem to be able to get enthusiastic about the current situation in the Crimea. It seems like my whole life there has been on going hot and cold relations surrounding Russia and the rest of the world.

Perhaps I’ve got complacent, but this all seems a bit ‘ho hum’ here we go again!

Judith this is not the same as its always been. This is the beginning of what Matthew 24:6 spoke of:

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

But for those who haven’t understood recent events because they have no context and indeed are willing to hallucinate their lives mean what happens to them in this world,

…in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
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March 6, 2014 9:42pm
nasska

Amen. 🙂
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March 6, 2014 9:51pm
freemark

I’m not even talking about playing a game Judith, as often it’s not.. and I think it rarely happens that there is a fairytale reunion when the embryos (or babies, or kiddies) become teens.
Maybe I’m turning Green, as even when it has little to do with me..”it’s so unfair” 🙂
But again, my point is that this outweighs any perceived (or real) gender imbalances or bleating about biological advantage..IMHO.
Anyway, that’s me for the night..all tomorrow’s (and half of today’s) labour is going in a large part to paying a whole bunch of unappreciative troughers. I’ll more enjoy the 1/2 hour or so being spent on roads & other useful stuff.
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March 6, 2014 9:58pm
Ben Dover

Ref: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/using-capital-letters

GO TO HELL
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March 7, 2014 12:54am
Ben Dover

Ukrainian

DUHH Follow the MONEY Trail

WHERE DOES IT LEAD
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March 7, 2014 12:58am
DJP6-25

freemark 1.39 pm. Yeah, I saw that too. Fancy someone in the MSM having integrity. It’s good to see.
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March 7, 2014 3:54am
Judith

@ freemark (297 comments) says:
March 6th, 2014 at 9:58 pm

I think we all hate the fact we are paying so much towards other people’s inability to lead a self sufficient life.

I have no problem contributing some of my taxes towards those that are genuinely struck down by some unexpected or sudden disaster in their lives. I accept that those on lower wages cannot afford income insurance, but what I hate is the generational effect that has occurred. Initially there was no doubt someone (a grandparent or maybe even a great-grandparent) that needed assistance – however the way of life has been adopted by subsequent generations, who all lack a decent work ethic, and yes, have a sense of entitlement.

Until we break that generational effect, we will continue to keep paying for a situation that has been allowed to perpetuate for many years, until it has become so set solid, that there is no quick fix for it that is humane.

People that have no work ethic cannot teach the next generation to have one – sadly it is going to be up to those of us that do, to teach it. I believe that the governments (all of them) have been too wound up on trying to change those that can’t be taught (they benefit too much by their current state). Instead the focus should be on enforcing a work ethic in the next generation/s.
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March 7, 2014 7:54am

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