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March 3, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 3 March 2014

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General Debate

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Tauhei Notts

The Education Industry has sucked in far too many young New Zealanders.
They have pocketed the dough while the young ripped off people are now saddled with dreadful student loans.
Those in the Education Industry have no shame.
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March 3, 2014 7:07pm
thedavincimode

I should have added that the choice of tertiary institution is also important – employers will have prejudices about this. And if you are lazy academically, get un-lazy quick because the competition is hot. If your academic background is weak through being lazy, you should think seriously about spending a year revising so that you can hit tertiary up and running. Speak to tertiary tutors about what in particular you should work on. If you’re academic record isn’t strong through no lack of effort, don’t undertake tertiary education just because your mates are off there. Be honest with yourself in trying to work out whether you should do it.
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March 3, 2014 7:10pm
Graham Sharpe

Is there any truth in the rumour that Helen Clark is about to step down from her UN poat and return to Wellington to join Matt McCarten in David Cunliffe’s office?
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March 3, 2014 7:13pm
Viking2

After hearing that one of the patients in a mental hospital had saved another from a suicide attempt by pulling him out of a bathtub, the hospital director reviewed the rescuer’s file and called him into his office.

“Mr. Haroldson, your records and your heroic behavior indicate that you’re ready to go home. I’m only sorry that the man you saved later killed himself with a rope around the neck.”

“Oh, he didn’t kill himself,” Mr. Haroldson replied. “I hung him up to dry.”
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March 3, 2014 7:24pm
Longknives

“A basic degree can no longer be considered a good qualification.”
“A Masters will get you a job, or an honours degree maybe.
A PhD however is too much.”

I have never heard such utter bullshit in my entire life (or at least since the last Bain thread..)
I have a humble Bachelors Degree and I hate to break it to you but I’m not flipping burgers Judith…
Sure there are Degrees that are a waste of time but your sweeping generalisation is insulting, arrogant and ill-informed.
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March 3, 2014 7:46pm
Viking2

Visiting China, it is not safe to drink the water, the produce is pretty dodgy and they are sending a lot of the food here
Posted in Rural News March 3, 2014 – 04:59pm, Jeff Smith
A resident of Sihoupo tends to his vegetable garden.

The steady increase in cheap food imports is a threat not only to local producers but also to our health … if reports from China are to be believed.

We imported $31.7 million worth of processed fruit and vegetables last year and the bulk of this was from China. At the same time we exported $100 million worth.

The imports included frozen vegetable products, canned fruit and asparagus.

There was also $10.8 million worth of “fresh” fruit from China up from $7.1 million in 2009. This included lots of pears and from 2010 grapes.

Then there was of course the garlic under the fresh vegetable category worth almost $20 million.

Last year a report by China’s national broadcaster CCTV detailed the manufacturing process followed by 16 companies that sell preserved fruit.

If you have just eaten a can of peaches imported from China it would pay not to read any further.

“Rotten peaches pickled in outdoor pools surrounded by garbage are spiked with sodium metabisulfite to keep the fruit looking fresh and with bleaching agents and additives harmful to the human liver and kidneys. The peaches are packed in uncleaned bags that previously held animal feed and then shipped off to big-brands stores,” according to the New York Times.
Related Topics
Rural News
fruit
vegetables
China

Toxic preserved fruit is the latest item on China’s expanding list of unsafe food products. Baby formula adulterated with melamine is the best known, but there is also meat containing the banned steroid clenbuterol, rice contaminated with cadmium, noodles flavored with ink and paraffin, mushrooms treated with fluorescent bleach and cooking oil recycled from street gutters.

China grows half of the world’s vegetables and almost 20% of its fruit.

China’s people consume most of its produce, but an increasing share is being exported to New Zealand, Australia, the United States, Europe, and the rest of the world.

One of the biggest problems with eating Chinese fruit and vegetables is the rising risk of ingesting one of any number of highly toxic heavy metals, including mercury, lead, and the cadmium. In fact, according to China’s own Ministry of Land and Resources, more than 10% of China’s arable land has already been contaminated by heavy metal detritus from China’s factories, mines, smelters, and power plants.

A second major health issue is the exceedingly high levels of pesticide residues often found in Chinese produce.

As documented in the Journal of Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry, the underlying problem is the tendency for China’s farmers to overuse pesticides in an effort to boost their meager crop yields. As a result, the FDA has had to reject Chinese agricultural products ranging from ginseng and frozen red raspberry crumble to mushrooms.

Der Spiegel recently reported that China’s farmers no longer eat the same foods that they sell.

Zhou Li, a lecturer at Beijing’s Renmin University who studies food safety, told the newspaper farmers were now aware of the harmful effects of pesticides, fertilizers, hormones and antibiotics. They still produced a portion of their farm products for the market and a portion for their own families.

The only difference was that the food for their families was produced using traditional methods.

In fact, many wealthy Chinese have bought their own farms so as not to be dependent on what’s available in supermarkets.

There were also reports of special plots of land used to produce food exclusively for senior government officials.

People concerned

The Chinese people themselves are becoming increasingly concerned about what is happening in their country.

Air pollution has just been recorded at the end of last year as the worst in 52 years.

And this week a $330 billion battle to tackle water pollution got underway.

Figures just released showed the state of drinking water was a worry for more than 80% of citizens, the second biggest concern behind smog (90%) and over 80% say they have real concerns about China’s environmental problems.

The government recently announced tiered water charges to encourage people to use less water.

A six-month campaign against major industrial polluters is due to start later this month.

http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/68758/visiting-china-it-not-safe-drink-water-produce-pretty-dodgy-and-they-are-sending-lo
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March 3, 2014 7:59pm
Judith

@ Longknives (3,975 comments) says:
March 3rd, 2014 at 7:46 pm

I am presuming you are older than in your early 20’s… I was talking about young people today, in reply to the person above my comment, and about the article they had posted a link to, which says similar thing.

Sure it was different in the past, and degrees opened doors, but they don’t have the same effect today ..

I suggest you get out there and talk to some of the young people who are unable to get good jobs with their degrees.
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March 3, 2014 8:05pm
nasska

I made a video of me speaking in Indian accent and uploaded it on Youtube.

Next morning when I checked my email, I had job offers from twelve call centres.
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March 3, 2014 8:08pm
Nostalgia-NZ

LK

‘I have never heard such utter bullshit in my entire life (or at least since the last Bain thread..)’

You don’t actually hear threads you read them, however I agree about your contributions to Bain threads being utter bullshit. I guess like others you have the need to keep bringing up the B word to try and re-explain your investment in fairy tales.
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March 3, 2014 8:09pm
kowtow

Best writing,Adapted Screenplay.
Bingo.

I’m appalled that a Pallywood movie ,Omar, didn’t win the foreign film category.God knows we shouldn’t let any opportunity to get the boot in on those darn israelis.

And the academy have insulted Saint Nelson Mandela by not giving the best original song award to Ordinary love.
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March 3, 2014 8:16pm
Ross12

longknives @ 7.46pm

Judith has a point especially with her added comments at 8.05pm. In Australia now it is common to go onto Masters because you become more employable ( my son was flatting with an Architecture student who doing just that). Our son did an IT degree and tried for 2.5 years before he got a full time job. ( he did some short term and voluntary IT work during that time.)
There businesses in Australia setup to help graduates become more employable ( they are rip off merchants) — not just helping write CVs but they get them into voluntary work to get work experience etc.
As Judith says if you are say 30+ then it would have been easier when you graduated but that is certainly not the case now.
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March 3, 2014 8:24pm
thedavincimode

When mentioning the need to be careful about the choice of tertiary institution, I should also have advised that a life sentence at the University of Paremoremo should be avoided at all costs, if only for the benefit of the people whose demise has occasioned the attendance; eg nightclub patrons standing on the footpath. That said, life attendance doesn’t, sadly, mean that you attend for life.

Judith’s anecdotal experience accords with my own. Kids who went to ‘varsity who were too lazy and/or unprepared / not smart enough to compete in the market / took bullshit courses. Basically went there as a consequence of parental or peer expectation or because they thought they had nothing better to do. I’m not sure how any rational person would interpret those circumstances as rendering a degree pointless but that is not to say that nobody would.
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March 3, 2014 8:31pm
wiseowl

Viking.
Exactly.
Meanwhile our producers/growers are put through the hoops in every way possible.

Our sprays now are like weasel piss and the compliance costs to meet export standards for countries like China are forcing people out of production.
Free trade, yeah right.
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March 3, 2014 8:35pm
thedavincimode

ross 12

Architecture is a good example of a discipline that has limited opportunity/payback. Unless you’re Frank Lloyd Wright, the risk/reward dynamics aren’t great. If your son was a good scholar, then maybe you’ve identified another discipline where risk/reward is dodgy. One of the biggest parts of thinking about what you do is the market for what you want to do. I’m not suggesting that is easy at all with degree lead times – that’s one of the problems – employer demand can be volatile.

eg, because of Christchurch, we are going to need more civil engineers for the next 20 years.
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March 3, 2014 8:38pm
Nostalgia-NZ

‘Architecture is a good example of a discipline’ so is being full of crap and letting in out in small increments.
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March 3, 2014 8:40pm
thedavincimode

so is being full of crap and letting in out in small increments.

A very insightful observation Nosty. Hopefully, Judith will take your comment on board.

I can see that time thinking about whether it was safe to bend over to pick up the soap has certainly paid off in terms of your observation skills.
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March 3, 2014 8:58pm
cha

A poem.

The Parable of the Old Man and the Young

So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
And took the fire with him, and a knife.
And as they sojourned both of them together,
Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
and builded parapets and trenches there,
And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
Neither do anything to him. Behold,
A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
And half the seed of Europe, one by one.

Wilfred Owen
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March 3, 2014 8:59pm
nasska

A little bloke, after nine years in Pare, would probably have an arse like the sleeve of a wizards cloak Davinci. 🙂
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March 3, 2014 9:10pm
Nostalgia-NZ

The addition of one gutless wonder to another, zero with zero, still equals zero.
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March 3, 2014 9:16pm
thedavincimode

I expect so nasska. I understand that’s where they keep all the really useful stuff.

nosty

Couldn’t agree more. So remind me who the driver was?
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March 3, 2014 10:19pm
Manolo

To delight Stephieboy, staunch feminist and Obama lover: http://www.westernjournalism.com/harvard-law-review-bio-obama-born-kenya/
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March 4, 2014 6:30am
Ross12

thedavincimode

My comments were not meant to imply I think degrees are a waste of time. I’m just saying that Judith’s comments were not rubbish.
Further to what I said above –the IT industry says they have a shortage of skills but it is quite common for a job adv. to say,
even for junior positions, ” no graduates”. So the young people are stuck between a “rock and hard place” because to get on in the market they need the experience the employers are asking for.
I agree with your comment that there are too many “rubbish” degrees on offer.
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March 4, 2014 8:03am
thedavincimode

ross12

I take your point about entry into IT. But to extrapolate a market circumstance into the type of assertions Judith made is just silly. Degrees as such ceased to be a meal ticket in the 1960s – the notion that having a BA was somehow in itself is long dead.

The commercialisation of education has seen an exponential increase in the number of students and completely bullshit degrees. The fact that “graduates” in political studies, women’s affairs, communications, journalism can’t get jobs outside the liebour party is because they are bullshit degrees with limited marketability. That, and the fact that the employment market is so competitive are the reasons kids don’t get jobs. The employment market is so competitive because business is so competitive and employers hiring graduates want the cream of the crop with relevant qualifications. Asserting that degrees generally are intrinsically less valuable, or that a Masters or PhD is intrinsically more or less valuable or pointless is just facile.
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March 4, 2014 8:59am

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