General Debate 20 March 2014

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EAD

Stunning article in the Guardian yesterday, that is causing a storm in social media (80,000+ “shares” already) as it lifts the lid on the debt based fractionally reserved monetary system we currently use. The big news is not that it is a secret – anyone who cares to look can understand the nature of the system, but more that the fact that the process of money creation is being discussed in the open by a massive mainstream worldwide newspaper – the 3rd most read in the world. This can only be good news in educating the public as to the giant fraud of the money creation process and will help in garnering the political momentum and understanding to overthrow it and replace it with something better.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/18/truth-money-iou-bank-of-england-austerity

A few snippets:

“Back in the 1930s, Henry Ford is supposed to have remarked that it was a good thing that most Americans didn’t know how banking really works, because if they did, “there’d be a revolution before tomorrow morning”.

“In other words, everything we know is not just wrong – it’s backwards. When banks make loans, they create money. This is because money is really just an IOU. The role of the central bank is to preside over a legal order that effectively grants banks the exclusive right to create IOUs of a certain kind, ones that the government will recognise as legal tender by its willingness to accept them in payment of taxes. There’s really no limit on how much banks could create, provided they can find someone willing to borrow it.”

“Just consider what might happen if mortgage holders realised the money the bank lent them is not, really, the life savings of some thrifty pensioner, but something the bank just whisked into existence through its possession of a magic wand which we, the public, handed over to it.”

This article reminds me of that old axiom – Truth passes through three phases: First it is ridiculed. Second it is fiercely and violently opposed. Third, it becomes self-evident
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March 20, 2014 8:01am
Left Right and Centre

How many voters are Labour going to get by talking tired old crap like ‘National are just feathering their own nests’ – ‘only there to make deals and help their mates in big business’.

Does that kind of rhetoric really work ? Is that really going on ? Are National MPs just MPs to use their position to try and get some personal gain ?

Where’s the hard proven evidence for these waffly tired old cliche accusations ?

Wow – really ? I’m picturing an MP rubbing hands with glee ‘cool, elected. Licence to print money’. Really ? Tell me the truth you sexy big brained beast….
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March 20, 2014 8:05am
gravedodger

Oi Mr Cunliffe, if exporting logs was not best business practice there would be hundreds of entrepreneurs frantically building factories mills and process plants to make a dollar from those logs.
Of course if you think we need an Australian Car type Industry based on wood, you are just exhibiting your clear deficit in economic knowledge.
Then again it might just be yet another tailored lecture to that target audience.
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March 20, 2014 8:13am
big bruv

Has Penny sold her house yet?
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March 20, 2014 8:14am
stephieboy

EAD, by all means re the banking system and rather like Henry Ford lets blame the Jews.?
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March 20, 2014 8:14am
Reid

Will Key forgive this breathtaking disaster?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/9846923/Will-Key-forgive-this-breathtaking-disaster

Parata only survives because her husband Wira Gardiner is so influential in Maori National circles. No other Minister has the leeway she has been given in the past. She is arrogant, incompetent and dumb.
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March 20, 2014 8:17am
Keeping Stock

Whoever would have thunk it? Kim Dotcom has a totally different attitude to HIS rights than he did for the rights of all those people whose content ended up illegally on Megaupload. He run off to the High Court for an injunction to stop his former head security bloke from spilling the beans; so much for free speech!

Does anyone else get the impression that the dam is about to burst, and the carefully crafted image of Dotcom as a media darling and caped crusader for the rights of the oppressed is about to be shot to pieces?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/free-speech-dotcom-style.html
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March 20, 2014 8:17am
flipper

The Beltway bandits, their cuzzies in Auckland, and the MSM, notably the labour/Green flunkies Dann and Gower, are continuing to flay Judith Collins with allegations of lying to the Prime Minister.
Putting aside their pin head dancing over whether she knew the “senior Chinese Border official’s name before she left NZ for China, can someone PLEASE explain how she damaged New Zealand’s national interests by attending that dinner?

Dent talk to about conflicts and bennies to her husband….. or contributions by the company to the national Party. If there were any, (excluding National and monies that apparently went to the National Party Trust which is NOT an election campaign “trust” ) they were piddle arsed,.

And if the dinner resulted in some benefit to Oravida and New Zealand Incorporated, what is the problem.

This morning we had J key rubbishing the new rainbow pussy’s claims…. but the media continue to promote their anti-National line. It is clear that this sort of desperation will be the norm for the next six months. Sad, for New Zealand.
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March 20, 2014 8:20am
Harriet

LRC#

National may well have 50% of the vote but that is not a ‘satisfaction vote’ for National but a ‘no confidence vote’ in Labour.

There is 6 months to go, and with National chock full of voters then ACT and the Conservatives are sure to point out that National should at least be saying something other than just “Here’s what’s wrong with Labour and their policies.”

National arn’t giving out policy announcements so voters will soon start to be wondering what National ‘really stands for’.

Lange & Douglas were a reformist party – while Key & English appear to be statists.

Act and the Conservatives will point this out also to National’s plentiful voters! 😎
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March 20, 2014 8:23am
Reid

This article reminds me of that old axiom – Truth passes through three phases: First it is ridiculed. Second it is fiercely and violently opposed. Third, it becomes self-evident

Same article I posted yesterday along with a few videos that explains it.

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/03/general_debate_19_march_2014.html#comment-1292653

EAD, by all means re the banking system and rather like Henry Ford lets blame the Jews.?

stephie obfuscation into an irrelevant subject that isn’t being raised by the issue under discussion, is caused by your cognitive dissonance. You need to educate yourself rather than as you are doing, pretend it isn’t there. That’s what adults would do.
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March 20, 2014 8:23am
Elaycee

@Keeping Stock: The tom toms I hear are beating increasingly louder that the Kim Dotcon bubble is about to burst. And if the rumours I hear are correct, there will be more than a few, high profile ‘interested parties’ highly embarrassed when their names appear amongst the debris ….

Oh, dear. How sad. Tut, tut. Never mind.
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March 20, 2014 8:26am
jp_1983

Norman is going to give someone $1 million dollars for building a ten story wooden building..
More ‘crony capitalism’ or doesn’t it apply if you are a communist?

Also has anyone asked what the forest huggers think about all this tree felling that will occur?
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March 20, 2014 8:30am
All_on_Red

http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2014/03/rapeculture.html

Is there a “war on men”?
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March 20, 2014 8:30am
Longknives

But Len insists the public have forgiven him and ‘moved on’!
Someone is lying…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11222734
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March 20, 2014 8:35am
itstricky

Also has anyone asked what the forest huggers think about all this tree felling that will occur?

I imagine they think that sustainable regenerative forestry for building is great but cutting down native rainforest ain’t. That should be pretty clear.
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March 20, 2014 8:36am
EAD

@Reid 8.23am – I only get about an hour a day to read/comment on the news and I must have missed your post.

I think the significance behind the article is not that it is new information, but the fact it is being published by one of the biggest news organisations in the world rather than in finance, political book/website etc. which to be honest, only really appeals to perhaps 5% of the population.

I’ve spent a lot of time trying to explain this to others and the consequences of the system. Most cannot believe it because it is just too outrageous to comprehend.
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March 20, 2014 8:37am
Reid

This can only be good news in educating the public as to the giant fraud of the money creation process and will help in garnering the political momentum and understanding to overthrow it and replace it with something better.

EAD one wonders why they’ve allowed this to be done at this moment, right when the USD is about to tank big-time. As you will know, one of the possibilities that has been long under discussion is they will replace it with another backed by gold. I wonder if this is the opening shot in that campaign.
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March 20, 2014 8:38am
Keeping Stock

@ Elaycee – if you and I are hearing the beating of the same drums, it could be as early as this afternoon. Get the beer and popcorn in, or maybe cook up a pot of sauerkraut; the fun is imminent 😉
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March 20, 2014 8:38am
All_on_Red

Flipper,
I reckon Judith is a victim of her own success. She’s been bullet proof for awhile and let’s face it, she absolutely nails the opposition all the time in the house and in social media. She has a sharp and caustic wit. It’s just payback time and they are milking it for all they can, cause they actually rarely get a chance against her. I hope she keeps slinging shit at them.
Consider this though, if she refused to go to dinner, surely that would offend her husbands partners/employers and be to the detriment of her husbands career. Is it fair to expect the minister to have to take that choice?
Really though, it’s pretty pathetic and much ado about nothing.
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March 20, 2014 8:44am
peterwn

EAD – Any token currency ‘creates money’ unless the token currency is backed one for one with gold or similar owned by and in the custody of the currency issuer (which nowadays they are not). The whole trick of running a ‘token currency’ is to control both the amount of cash that is printed and to control the amount of currency book entries created by the ‘reserve’ bank. In NZ this is what the Reserve Bank Act controls with its emphasis on keeping down inflation.

Because such controlled money creation takes place, the former Social Credit Party and Russell Norman are under the illusion that economic problems can be solved by creating lots more. Labour thinks the problems can be solved by creating a modest amount of extra money. Hence the Labour promise to amend the Reserve Bank Act.
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March 20, 2014 8:46am
Simon

Good link EAD.

Two major banks in NZ were on the brink last time in 2008 & 2009. It will be more than 2 next time. The RBNZ are the most useless cunts in NZ. Worse than useless. Much worse than the greens.

Fractional reserve banking look it up. I will later find a link from RBNZ for anyone who doubts fractional reserve banking the RBNZ talk about the banks creating credit. In effect printing money. The process is overseen by RBNZ.

One smaller bank (in NZ terms) operating in NZ had failed and had to be recapitalised.

If you have bank deposits diversify and consider off shore or company bonds. Last time it was the finance companies next it will be the banks. NZ has had 14 yrs of massive credit growth far outstripping economic growth it cant continue.
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March 20, 2014 8:48am
Manolo

Living the high life:

The development followed a shambolic press conference late on Tuesday evening in which Parata said she was satisfied no public money had been spent inappropriately, despite allegations that TPO general manager Lynda Tawhiwhirangi used her work credit card to buy a wedding dress, an $800 Trelise Cooper dress, a 21st birthday gift, and make a $1000 cash withdrawal as koha for a tangi she did not attend.

Crooks is what they are: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9846680/SFO-to-look-at-kohanga-reo-arm
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March 20, 2014 8:49am
thedavincimode

Any reports of tax being deducted on that “koha”? Services rendered and all …
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March 20, 2014 8:54am
kowtow

flapper

I wouldn’t push that “rainbow pussy” line too hard.

The rainbow pussy that comes to mind is m Williamson insulting what was once National core constituents.

And remember it was Nikki Kaye ,another member of the Notional Party who was so quick to support Labour’s travesty of marriage bill.

When labour gets so much support for its social engineering agenda from Notional you wonder what’s the point of Notional in power other than to slow the pace of government spending.
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March 20, 2014 8:59am
EAD

@ Reid – I don’t know what will replace the USD reserve system but change is coming, sooner than many appreciate. I received a report from Bloomberg and also just read on the Telegraph that some countries have been dumping massive amounts of US Treasuries as they’re no longer willing to hold a currency being rapidly debased by QE.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100026831/fire-sale-of-us-treasuries-is-a-warning-of-acute-stress-across-the-world/

I spend a bit of time in the currency & precious metal markets and if anyone is interest in the wider machnations and wanting to understand the bigger pictures of global currencies, I recommend reading Jim Rickards “Currency Wars”. It is simply an outstanding book because it makes so many subjects within economics, finance and markets understandable, accessible and interesting in the human perspective and all without dumbing down the content or patronizing the reader.

@ peterwn – yes the social creditors are simply ignorant. They think more money = more “growth” but they are wrong. Economics is about understanding choice in an environment of scarcity. If we simply doubled everyone’s monetary holdings and incomes without changing production, prices would simply double and no-one would be better off. The problem people have is that if they have more money, they are better off but on a societal level, it creates no added economic benefit as nothing was produced, all that happened was the monetary base got inflated.
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March 20, 2014 8:59am
Ross12

EAD & others

You guys obviously know more about this issue than I do but hasn’t gold got it’s own problem at the moment –ie. a very large part of the “gold” traded does not exist. It is just bits of paper ( or a few pixels) saying you are buying gold. This is probably a somewhat separate issue to the fractional reserve banking but this talk of another currency backed by gold would have to see this gold issue sorted first. Am I right or off track ?
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March 20, 2014 9:03am
flipper

All_on_Red (879 comments) says:

March 20th, 2014 at 8:44 am

Flipper,
I reckon Judith is a victim of her own success.
*****

Good stuff….. quite agree. There are two major issues here:

1. Chinese culture, and

2. Money….or the lack of it.

Whale has had a couple of very good posts (while DPF was walkabout 🙂 ) -one by Cactus Kate on culture … and who pays for dinner. The other this morning by Whale on trade union money, and in particular the stop that Collins put to the CTU rort over ACC safety training, resulting in the unions having a financial squeeze when an election is six months away from today.

JC’s personal media problems stem from her attitude on various legal/judicial issues, at least two of which would rank as the nadir in political cheap shots. No need to mention them now – they would be a diversion).

There has been one unfortunate side effect for JC from all of this: It has killed stone dead whatever leadership aspirations she and her closests held. The Tom toms are not keen on someone who is seen as risk prone. Risk averse is the name of the game. 🙂
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March 20, 2014 9:15am
EAD

@ Ross – you are pretty much correct. Through the use of derivatives, the amount of gold in the world has been artificially inflated by a factor of 100+ to create the appearance of more gold than there really is in existence so at the moment, we don’t really have true price discovery of it’s worth. This artificial manipulation of gold is a bit different from the use of derivatives to inflate the apparent supply of other commodities and trade other commodities like oil, wheat etc. as they are physically traded on a constant basis so a price closer to market price is always established. The difference with Gold is that it mainly sits in vaults and rarely changes hands – it just sits there as insurance……until the day it is needed.

Will it one day make a return as money? I don’t know honestly but as a check against inflation of the monetary base, it has proved to be the most excellent check on governments and banks bar none.
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March 20, 2014 9:16am
flipper

Kowtow…
I bow to your superior knowledge of the rainbows.
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March 20, 2014 9:17am
kowtow

Talking of inflation here’s an interesting item from the Daily Telegraph (EAD, shame on you touting the Guardianista).

Gold bugs note one troy ounce in 1973 was 34 quid in 2013, 1051.

Anyway gist of story ‘There is no doubt that the value of money has fallen dramatically since 1973″

A pint of lager 14 p and a litre of diesel 8p. Read and weep.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10682032/Beer-bubble-how-price-of-a-pint-has-risen-twenty-fold.html
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March 20, 2014 9:20am
Reid

Ross the Chinese have been hoarding gold like crazy in the last year, Germany asked for an audit of its reserves supposedly held at the Fed and was refused, Ukraine’s gold was shipped to the Fed immediately following the election of the ‘democratic’ govt in Kiev, london Financial Times reported price manipulation but article was removed, you can see it here: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-25/here-fts-gold-price-manipulation-article-was-removed

These are only four examples of odd things that have been happening in the gold market – that site isn’t a bad start if you want to look around it, as well as EAD’s refs.

Yes you’re correct that the certificates are dangerous.
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March 20, 2014 9:25am
kowtow

Manolo

The new aristos , the bro’ocracy can do no wrong.

Brownwash Aotearoa.
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March 20, 2014 9:25am
flipper

Manolo (12,440 comments) says:

March 20th, 2014 at 8:49 am

Living the high life:

*****

I am NOT arguing in favour of “KR”,. nor their commercial off shoot.

But as I understand it, KR does not receive (anything more than a token) grant monies from the Government.

KR SELLS / PROVIDES services to the Government for which a fee is paid. The perception has developed that this is still “public funding”. It is not. The monies paid are dependent upon the proper provision of a service. The Crown purchases those services – standard Treasury contracting rules.

This sort of claim emerges frequently when it suits politicians on a point scoring ride. So Parata was correct. Up until she received the latest claims in writing, she had no legal grounds to complain. It was all an internal matter for the “KR” wallahs.
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March 20, 2014 9:31am
mikenmild

Yeah flipper, what’s all the fuss about, eh?

When the allegations first emerged about spending at Te Pataka Ohanga, Parata launched an investigation. Now it turns out that investigation didn’t even look at the misspending allegations.
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March 20, 2014 9:38am
kowtow

How long before South Africa becomes a Uganda or Congo?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2014/03/s-africa-zuma-criticised-home-upgrade-201431911105213952.html
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March 20, 2014 9:40am
Left Right and Centre

Is it just me or are the page links on this website rooted as much as its owner ?

https://www.labour.org.nz/

I’m clicking *issues* – it’s just toying with me the bastard….

Also – haha – resident badarse Reid turns the intellectual blowtorch on another poor wretched soul. I love the smell of burning flesh in the morning….
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March 20, 2014 9:46am
igm

The obese German slug gags an ex-employee in court, by a Labour-appointed judge. This, along with his offer to help Hone get rid of our PM, must surely be grounds to arse the criminal bastard out right NOW. He is definitely interfering in our political and justice systems and this should not be tolerated. Shows how low the bastards supporting this disgusting slob are.
Time to rally against the Lecher of Auckland . . . he is again getting too sassy.
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March 20, 2014 9:54am
Tauhei Notts

Reid at 8.17 touched upon it. So did Monolo at 8.49, and Kowtow at 9.25.
Hekia Parata; I hope to think of her on Sunday when I will out off Tauranga; she is a fish out of water, and that is what I will want to see on Sunday.
Why do the Labour people attack Judith Collins? Hekia Parata is the weakest link in Key’s Cabinet, by a long way.
…………..
We were told that Te Pataka Ohanga is a subsidiary of Te Kohanga Reo National Trust.
Then we were told that Te Pataka Ohanga is an employee of the Trust.
Then we were told that Te Pataka Ohanga had charitable status.
Then we were told that the Trust had, instead of paying a taxable bonus to an employee, had given that employee “koha” of $50,000. Apparently “koha” falls outside the Inland Revenue Department’s definition of an “Extra Emolument” and as such is exempt from income tax or ACC premiums. For 14 months in the mid seventies I worked as a tax accountant (in Braamfontein) in a regime that had a separate development policy that was racially based. I found it reprehensible. Now I am seeing a similar racially based separate development policy in my own country.
What is Te Pataka Ohanga? Is it a company as every other subsidiary is that I have ever seen is? If so why does it not have the Limited suffix as every company has? If it is a Trust why does it not have the Trust suffix? What the fuckin hell is it? If it is a company how can it be an employee? A contractor, yes, but an employee, no?
My limited knowledge of Maori taught me that a pataka was a store house for food, usually built on stilts to guard against rats and other vermin. I am rapidly getting the impression that the vermin are the people defending this artifice.
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March 20, 2014 9:55am
kowtow

igm

National let him in cos he had money.

The whole permanent political class is complicit in this morally corrupt affair.

One thing is certain, Aotearoan residency is up for sale to the rich.
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March 20, 2014 9:58am
igm

kowtow: Like all lefties you tell untruths. Labour let the fat bastard in.
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March 20, 2014 10:05am
Nostalgia-NZ

Morning flipper. It’s JC’s apparent evasiveness over Orinda which is the issue now. She appears unable to give a straight answer, preferring to run the argument that it’s all above board and nothing to worry about – a clear con. Revelation should be the name of the game and because it isn’t it reflects poorly. From something she said which I read this morning she claims that JK ‘knew’ about the dinner, but it is not revealed when he knew. She’s giving the ‘case’ against herself legs, because no one is really sure of which version is true because it keeps changing. Even if she gave a frank account now, Labour will make hay from that – of how it was dragged out of her etc, etc. Listening to some of the Parliamentary debate from yesterday it appears this issue is accumulating ammunition for the on going thrust from Labour about ‘looking after their mates’ and so on. This is an example which is a gift to them. It’s a futile game to be playing on this side of an election, an unnecessary risk.
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March 20, 2014 10:20am
kowtow

Dotcom was granted residency under the Investor Plus Category in November 2010. The Immigration Minister was Jonathon Coleman. It was immigration officials who approved the grant. The minister was aware of the case.

Dotcom was granted residency under National.
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March 20, 2014 10:25am
flipper

Tauhei Notts (1,493 comments) says:

March 20th, 2014 at 9:55 am

*****

I have posted on this in reply to Manolo (above).

I am NOT defending KR or its subsidiary.

KR is contracted to provide services to the Crown, as per the standard Treasury contracting model;
KR has, presumably, provided the services, and then having invoiced the Crown, is paid.

At that point, subject to audit of the service provided, the funds received are NO LONGER “public”. They belong to KR.

What happened after that is a matter for KR.
This situation (provision of a service for which fees (NOT grants) are paid ) is standard and applies to many, many NGOs.

Question: If I worked for the Crown (perish the thought) and received a salary or a fee for providing a service, can it still be claimed that when I spend my salary or contract fees that I am, spending “public monies”.”

Stretching the longbow does not come near that sort of rubbish.
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March 20, 2014 10:27am
Manolo

The effeminate Lynn Prentice writes at The sub-Standard:

What use is oil extraction here?
One of the more irritating traits of National politicians is their bone-headed and short-term obsession about being rentiers selling raw and lightly processed raw materials offshore. Sure it is great in the short-term for the seller of the rights to those raw materials, but it does little to nothing for the other 4+ million people in this country. In the fullness of time, the resource that is being extracted will run out.

As you can see, the Rainbow socialist is now turning Green. He ought to be a colossal moron not to see the economic advantages of oil exploration and extraction.
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March 20, 2014 10:30am
mikenmild

So, flipper, why did Parata launch an investigation after the misspending was revealed and then announce that the investigation hadn’t even looked at the entity doing the spending in question?
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March 20, 2014 10:31am
igm

kowtow: Crap, Labour courted the bastard.
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March 20, 2014 10:33am
Simon

http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/research_and_publications/reserve_bank_bulletin/2008/2008mar71_1.pdf

On page 26, summary of reserve banking.

Section 25 of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand
Act 1989 gives the Reserve Bank the monopoly right to
issue physical money (notes and coins), which enters public
circulation through the private sector institutions to which
it is issued.

A private sector institution can also create money by
issuing claims on itself (ie, by accepting deposits) that
may be transferred between, and are generally accepted
by, members of the public as a means of payment. For
that matter, any institution that can maintain the public’s
confidence that its liabilities will be generally accepted as
means of payment, can create money
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March 20, 2014 10:37am
Manolo

The bear admonishes Estonia:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/19/us-russia-estonia-idUSBREA2I1J620140319

Russia signaled concern on Wednesday at Estonia’s treatment of its large ethnic Russian minority, comparing language policy in the Baltic state with what it said was a call in Ukraine to prevent the use of Russian.
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March 20, 2014 10:37am
flipper

And good morning to you N-NZ.

Cannot disagree with your arguments..

Frankly, I do not believe that it amounts to anything that is of concern to the great unwashed. Out there in provincial; NZ, and among most folks outside the beltway/media/professions, it is really a non issue. But it is an unnecessary distraction for National.
That is why earlier this morning I said (above):

“**** JC’s personal media problems stem from her attitude on various legal/judicial issues, at least two of which would rank as the nadir in political cheap shots. (No need to mention them now – they would be a diversion).

There has been one unfortunate side effect for JC from all of this: It has killed stone dead whatever leadership aspirations she and her closests held. The Tom toms are not keen on someone who is seen as risk prone. Risk averse is the name of the game. “

So in my view the damage is more personal to Collins than to National/Key in general. No ?
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March 20, 2014 10:38am
flipper

mikenmild (7,901 comments) says:

March 20th, 2014 at 10:31 am
****

The original claims related to “KR “, not its subsidiary company.
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March 20, 2014 10:40am
Simon

Fractional reserve banking ponzi fraud. You think your deposit are there but there are not.

National party supporters cracked open when Wussel & Labour wanted to set power prices. Central planning leads to failure as everyone knows. Yet monetary polices including the price of money (interest rates) is set by central planners. Fractional reserve banking can only exist through central planning.
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March 20, 2014 10:43am
mikenmild

That’s nonsense flipper. The original claims were about spending in Te Pataka Ohanga.
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March 20, 2014 10:45am
SGA

flipper at 10:27 am

KR is contracted to provide services to the Crown, as per the standard Treasury contracting model;
KR has, presumably, provided the services, and then having invoiced the Crown, is paid.
At that point, subject to audit of the service provided, the funds received are NO LONGER “public”. They belong to KR.

Did the situation with Tuku Morgan’s underwear (or whatever it was) eventually prove to be this sort of scenario? I can’t remember the details clearly.
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March 20, 2014 10:46am
Fletch

Claims about horrors in Syria.
Slaughterhouses found with both beheaded Christians and Muslims hanging from hooks.
Claimed to the the work of Takfiri Jihadist groups, such is ISIS.

Includes video, so do not look if you have just eaten.

https://shoebat.com/2014/03/17/actual-literal-islamic-human-slaughterhouses-christians-discovered/
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March 20, 2014 10:47am
Fletch

And so it begins –

Millionaire gay fathers suing to force the Church of England to marry them.

* Barrie Drewitt-Barlow said that he wants to marry partner Tony in a church
* Said that the only way forward is to challenge the church in court
* It is a test for Cameron’s promise to the CofE and Roman Catholic bishops
* Said that no church would be forced to conduct same-sex weddings
* Barrie and Tony now have five children through surrogate mothers

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383686/Millionaire-gay-fathers-sue-Church-England-allowing-married-church.html
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March 20, 2014 10:50am
chris

From http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11222714

Labour would double the depreciation rate for investment in new processing plant from 15 to 30 per cent a year which would reduce the tax bill for wood processors after such investment.

Costing the government about $10 million to $25 million a year, independent analysis estimated it would generate up to $80 million a year in new investment, “and of course there’s a benefit back to the taxpayer because we get higher taxes from people’s wages and company profits because they’re making more money as well”, Labour finance spokesman David Parker said.

According to David Parker, we’ll get higher taxes from people’s wages and company profits etc etc, so surely the same argument can be applied to all industries? Not just wood? Lower taxes / compliance for all!

I personally don’t understand how it’s some sort of magic bullet changing depreciation rates like this, because all it means is you can depreciate it faster. Yes, it decreases paper profit in the short term, but in the long it should be about the same.
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March 20, 2014 10:52am
igm

Time the rainbow room and its gaggle of deviants were brought to task, this is where the fat fairy gets instructions for his daily tirades of envy against Collins. These misfits are worse than a scorned “real” woman.
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March 20, 2014 10:59am
cha

FFS Fletch, the fake terrorist Shoebat has been exposed as a fantasist and serial fraudster.

http://www.jpost.com/Features/The-Palestinian-terrorist-turned-Zionist

http://youtu.be/74Tzz51VYXg
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March 20, 2014 11:01am
flipper

SGA (438 comments) says:

March 20th, 2014 at 10:46 am

*****

I cannot recall the detail…but it was Maori TV….. operating on Govt funding , not contract. No?

I am not defending the purchase of wedding dresses (incidentally 800 for a T Cooper seems bugger all) so that is an internal issue. The Koha is clearly internal…so I just do not understand where the pumpkinesque Watkins is coming from.
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March 20, 2014 11:07am
flipper

Further to the above… Google says:

” .. Prime Minister Helen Clark expects Maori broadcasting agency Te Mangai Paho to keep “a close eye” on its $1.6 million grant to former NZ First MP Tukoroirangi Morgan.

The agency has given Mr Morgan the money to make a 10-programme documentary series for the new Maori television channel.

Te Mangai Paho was heavily criticised for its role in the Aotearoa Television Network collapse in 1997.

Mr Morgan was a director of Aotearoa and took part in an infamous shopping spree with its money which included a pair of $89 underpants.

A Serious Fraud Office investigation cleared him of fraud … “
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March 20, 2014 11:11am
iMP

I find Norman’s attacks on immigrants – while himself an Australian in NZ – put as words into the mouth of John Key a double nasty. Firstly, attacking immigrants is NOT a Green core value (ie “6. Engage respectfully, without personal attacks”). Secondly, attacking other political leaders (Key, Craig) with made up straw men looks desperate and tilting at phantoms. Sorry, that’s “personal attack.”

Hoisted on own Hypocrisy petard Russell.
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March 20, 2014 11:16am
mandk

More evidence of Labour’s manufacturing crisis:
GDP in Manufacturing rose by 2.1% in 2013Q4 and is now at its highest since March 2006 (Stats NZ).
Let’s have more of these crises, please.
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March 20, 2014 11:17am
stephieboy

Yes Fletch yet another example of Mans descent into savagery and barbarism. A useful reminder though that this is not the exclusive preserve of Muslims as some here would like us to believe,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljXRfG-ApTA

and they weren’t averse to beheadings,

http://www.bestgore.com/beheading/schutzstaffel-beheading-jews-axe/
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March 20, 2014 11:20am
Judith

My take on the Collins situation.

There is nothing particularly wrong with what she did – Kiwis have to be seen and heard and show the world that we have fantastic products – she was restrained (compared to how she can be) and I suspect at least made some attempt not to be too overtly pushing her husbands financial interests – HOWEVER, she knew it was wrong –

It is her behaviour since knowledge of her actions were discovered that is most disturbing.

It annoys me to two reasons:

As a woman, I am annoyed that she has come across as a scheming, conniving manipulating cow, and not just on this one occasion. A claim that is frequently targeted undeservedly at successful professional woman – sadly she seems to have confirmed the assumption is true – therefore making it more difficult for the rest of us.

And I am annoyed that yet again we have an example of dishonesty, half-truths and manipulation, that due to this being an election year, is likely to be swept under the carpet. Even on this blog there have been outrageous claims shooting the messenger, and yet, if the same thing was reversed, Key and co would be out there leading the charge.

Again we are reduced to an election that is not won by who has the best team, but rather by who can conduct their private investigations and smear campaigns in a manner that influences the public most. Collins will keep her job, because despite the fact she should go, and she has proven that she does not respect the team leader sufficiently to be open and honest with him, but if Key should give her the boot, he will be confirming that his team can be faulty – and that is something National goes out of its way to avoid the public perceiving.

Instead we have people on here trying to distract the fact that Collins is liar, by shooting the messenger, trying to minimise the negativity by placing it on the person that dared to reveal the wrongdoing.

Mind games and bullying – that is all this year is about – nothing to do with who is actually going to lead this country in the right direction – and if anyone knows how to be a bully its Collins
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March 20, 2014 11:21am
Duxton

Meanwhile, in the real world…..

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11223037
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March 20, 2014 11:24am
Judith

@ Duxton (533 comments) says:
March 20th, 2014 at 11:24 am

Pretty consistent with the economic recovery being seen in other western countries then. Nothing unique to us. 🙂
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March 20, 2014 11:33am
Judith

stephieboy (789 comments) says:
March 20th, 2014 at 11:20 am
Yes Fletch yet another example of Mans descent into savagery and barbarism.

Decent? Are you forgetting our origins?

There is a good argument to be had that we have never actually ascended from those – just had periods where we have done better at hiding and excusing it.
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March 20, 2014 11:34am
EAD

Simon (599 comments) says:
March 20th, 2014 at 10:43 am

Ron Paul right on queue:

“I don’t think any one individual knows how to plan the economy by manipulating interest rates’ [they] are so important that if you give this power to one small group – there will be distortion.” That’s why socialism fails, slams the Fed critic, “it’s the invisible hand that we lack, not the wisdom of a few people…….So sometimes you have housing bubbles and sometimes you have housing busts, then you have housing bubbles and bond bubbles that’s all [the] result of the manipulation of interest rates, which is my real objection to it.”

If only that man was elected President.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-19/ron-paul-illusion-economy-and-why-socialism-always-fails
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March 20, 2014 11:41am
Weihana

kowtow (6,571 comments) says:
March 20th, 2014 at 9:58 am

igm

National let him in cos he had money.

The whole permanent political class is complicit in this morally corrupt affair.

One thing is certain, Aotearoan residency is up for sale to the rich.

I don’t think it was “cos he had money” per se. Rather it’s because his enterprises constituted a significant interest and potential benefit to this country. It is silly to judge the decision in hindsight of a extradition proceeding that didn’t exist at the time. It is normal practice for immigration policy to consider waiving the character requirements to not only achieve fairness but also to balance our national interests. I think it is fair that for anyone with such considerable business interests that you would tend towards a presumption of granting the character waiver.

People seem to have this assumption that criminal convictions make you ineligible for residency but there are many many cases where the normal requirements are waived because it is considered that the particular circumstances of the case justify it. This is not just for rich people and can often be beause the offending was long ago, or that there are humanitarian considerations etc.
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March 20, 2014 11:43am
Weihana

EAD (234 comments) says:
March 20th, 2014 at 11:41 am

I don’t think any one individual knows how to plan the economy by manipulating interest rates’

Interest rates do not “plan” the economy, they control the rate of inflation.

So sometimes you have housing bubbles and sometimes you have housing busts, then you have housing bubbles and bond bubbles that’s all [the] result of the manipulation of interest rates, which is my real objection to it.

Economic bubbles are intrinsic to markets. They are not “all the result” of monetary policy. In my view they are a consequence of the imperfections of human nature and also the imperfect way in which any market (no matter how “free”) communicates. Even if we were all extremely rational we can never ensure that our economic decisions are perfectly conceived and consequently there will inevitably be times when our economic decision making does not reflect the underlying reality. When a critical number of such decisions are made we see a bubble. This cannot be helped.
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March 20, 2014 12:03pm
mandk

Judith (5,234 comments) says:

March 20th, 2014 at 11:33 am
“Pretty consistent with the economic recovery being seen in other western countries then. Nothing unique to us.”

Except that our growth rate in 2013 was faster than in Aus, USA, Japan, Eurozone and UK.
Same story expected for 2014.

Good economic management by National, as I’m sure you will agree 🙂
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March 20, 2014 12:05pm
stephieboy

This is interesting . !Claire O’Connor gives an account of growing up in a household where her parents were John Birch Society ( JBS) activists and foundation members.She has written a book ,” Wrapped in the Flag: A Personal History of America’s Radical Right “(Boston: Beacon Press, 2013) about her experiences and her own involvement and participation.The interview and her book provides valuable insights into the workings and machinations of the Radical Right as exemplified in the Conspiracy , paranoid and fear driven JBS and how today it has morphed into the Tea Party which have approbated most of their ideas. In a nutshell roll back the US to pre 1929 that includes completely abolishing the New Deal and Great Society programs.

http://www.politicalresearch.org/2013/12/16/the-tea-party-the-john-birch-society-and-the-fear-of-mob-rule-an-interview-with-claire-conner/
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March 20, 2014 12:09pm
stephieboy

EAD, Ron Paul is not on queue . We can count ourselves very fortunate that he is not President.
Ron Paul casts his lot with extremists, conspiracy theorists,

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/29/ron_paul_casts_lot_with_extremists_conspiracy_theorists_partner/
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March 20, 2014 12:28pm
Manolo

Malaysia is rapidly regaining banana-republic status: http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8817086/malaysia-confirms-receiving-more-radar-data

Malaysian officials revealed they have been given “radar data” on missing flight MH370 but have refused to say which nation provided the new information.

Acting Transport Minister Hisammuddin Hussein made the announcement at a press conference in Kuala Lumpur yesterday, the Daily Mail reports.
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March 20, 2014 1:09pm
RRM

Russell Norman wants to give $1m of taxpayers’ money to the construction company that first builds a 10-storey timber building in New Zealand:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/business/9845468/1m-prize-for-wooden-building
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March 20, 2014 1:44pm
muggins

Judith
Having just read your take on Judith Collins I couldn’t help but get the feeling you have it in for Collins for reasons other than those you have stated.
Could it be your dislike for her stems more from the fact that she turned down a certain Canadian judge’s report rather than her recent behaviour? .
As most of us know that judge came to the incorrect conclusion but you can’t accept that , hence your anti-Collins stance.
Just sayin’.
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March 20, 2014 2:27pm
Duxton

@ Judith:

Actually, I was making an ironic reference to the ongoing harping (screeching??) from the Left about NZ’s manufacturing crisis.

But then, you wouldn’t see that, would you.

[Memo to self: Lefties have no concept of irony, and no sense of humour.]
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March 20, 2014 3:02pm
emmess

Did anyone listen to the circle jerk that was the Political Panel on Radio Live before?
Deborah Coddington, from the right, my arse

She actually tried to compare Russia’s annexation of the Crimea with Scotland’s independence referendum
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March 20, 2014 3:21pm
kowtow

I’m not sure that the Crimea thing is about left and right.

Under the UN charter populations have a right to self determination. The Crimeans are majority Russian and want to be in Russia.What’s wrong with that?

Serbia was bombed and dismembered by Clinton and the EU. Populations getting to vote on inclusion or otherwise in newly created Kosovo,at the expense of historic Serbia.

Territorial integrity of Serbia didn’t count when the EU and the White House said so.
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March 20, 2014 3:28pm
Elaycee

@muggins: Unfortunately, there is a handful of commenters on KB who take every opportunity to bleat and whinge about Judith Collins – simply because the Minister has made decisions that do not sit in sync with their own agenda.

There can be little doubt Collins could have / should have handled the Oravida dinner situation smarter, but that should not detract from the fact that she is an excellent Cabinet Minister and, thankfully, one who is here to stay for a while yet….

Unlike some of her detractors. 😀
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March 20, 2014 3:38pm
stephieboy

A background to the Kosovo war that avoids all the Conspiracy related nonsense including the alleged cover up for Clinton’s affair,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War
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March 20, 2014 3:42pm
mikenmild

Yes, I think some have confused Clinton/Kosovo with the movie ‘Wag the Dog’.
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March 20, 2014 3:55pm
griffith

thankfully, one who is………. set to become even more valuable to the next national government

😉
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March 20, 2014 4:04pm
Andrei

Oh stephieboy the Kosovo War was just Satan driving Christian Serbs from their ancient heartland in the cause of spreading darkness over all the human race
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March 20, 2014 4:06pm
emmess

I’m not sure that the Crimea thing is about left and right.

You are probably right that was just my example but she didn’t take an rightish position on anything, she did not deserve to be there representing the right.

Territorial integrity of Serbia didn’t count when the EU and the White House said so.

Did they annex Kosovo?
Did they arrange the independence referendum?
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March 20, 2014 4:08pm
cha

A wee while ago some other bloke had a similar beef with the neighbours.

Russia signaled concern on Wednesday at Estonia’s treatment of its large ethnic Russian minority, comparing language policy in the Baltic state with what it said was a call in Ukraine to prevent the use of Russian.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/19/us-russia-estonia-idUSBREA2I1J620140319
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March 20, 2014 4:23pm
Andrei

Did they annex Kosovo?
Did they arrange the independence referendum?

No they actually bombed the hell out of Serbia and Montenegro for forty days and forty nights, killing thousands of Serb men women and children in their beds.
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March 20, 2014 4:32pm
Albert_Ross

How is it “banana-republic” to decline to state where you got some information from? I would imagine that that is exactly what a grown-up, sensible Government would do with information that it had received on the understanding that the source would not be revealed, something which is quite common and not at all surprising.
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March 20, 2014 4:33pm
emmess

killing thousands of Serb men women and children in their beds.

Do you have a source for this other than RT?
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March 20, 2014 4:57pm
Ed Snack

MH 370 Update of note, the Aussies report (from a Satellite report) two pieces of debris that they are investigating. Should have an aircraft overhead shortly. Surface confirmation will take longer. No idea if this is really something, but worth following up obviously.
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March 20, 2014 5:00pm
UglyTruth

the fact that she is an excellent Cabinet Minister and, thankfully, one who is here to stay for a while yet….

Excellent ministers of justice don’t promote corruption within the judicial system as she has done.
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March 20, 2014 5:35pm
UglyTruth

Did they annex Kosovo?

The EU and the US proceeded to dismember Yugoslavia into subservient mini-states. They then bombed Serbia in order to carve off Kosovo, destroying one of the few independent countries still allied with Russia. The U.S. then moved on to foment uprisings in Georgia, Ukraine and Chechnya. They bombed, invaded and later occupied Iraq – a former Russian ally in the Gulf region.

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2014/03/12/obamas-advancing-empire-putsch-pillage-duplicity/
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March 20, 2014 5:40pm
Viking2

Debris sighted.

http://media.smh.com.au/news/national-news/mh370-have-we-found-it-5278048.html
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March 20, 2014 6:00pm
Lucia Maria

Ugly,

Your boiling frog article would be funny if it wasn’t so ridiculous. It’s like a reinterpretation of events designed to capture the weak of mind who think that there are EU and NATO “satellite regimes” in Eastern Europe.

Newsflash – those guys in the East remember the Soviet Union and they don’t want to go back to that.
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March 20, 2014 6:08pm
Ed Snack

US P8 Poseidon reporting radar returns from the area, plus unsourced reports of additional debris. Still not sure, largest piece is said to be of the order of 24 metres long, if so would have to be part of a wing. Poseidon almost on site, confirmation of what in hour at most.
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March 20, 2014 6:14pm
duggledog

TV One News do a story on limiting crayfish quotas

Using a graphic with a lobster – you know, the ones with massive claws. Jesus they are a bit useless aren’t they
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March 20, 2014 6:22pm
Viking2

Kiwibank says it’s opening a new office in Hastings where more than 100 staff will be based as it looks to mitigate risk.

In a statement CEO Paul Brock said the Hastings office will supplement core banking services provided from Kiwibank’s Wellington head office. He said recent earthquakes, extreme weather events and the risks of things such as fire or gas leaks have prompted a review of from where and how Kiwibank provides its core services.

http://www.interest.co.nz/news/69070/new-hastings-office-around-100-staff-kiwibank-it-looks-mitigate-risk

We need a lot more of this thinking.
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March 20, 2014 6:24pm
Ross12

duggledog

TV1. Did you catch the bit about postage increases? An increase from 70c to 80c is a 10% increase according to those guys.
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March 20, 2014 6:39pm
Andrei

LOL Lucia countries like Poland and the Baltic States have swapped one master for another – one which may be worse, apart from anything else young Polish and Baltic Women are transported from their homes to be sold into sexual slavery for Western pigs to use as they wish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3C0u1ynrlk
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March 20, 2014 6:43pm
wikiriwhis business

“Wow – really ? I’m picturing an MP rubbing hands with glee ‘cool, elected. Licence to print money’. Really ? Tell me the truth you sexy big brained beast….”

To be an MP is licence to print money (ie pay rises) and baubles and pensions and travel perks and all included for spouses. Partners as well I would say.
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March 20, 2014 6:49pm

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