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March 18, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 March 2014

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griffith

Denial: When it helps, when it hurts
Denial is a coping mechanism that gives you time to adjust to distressing situations — but staying in denial can interfere with treatment or your ability to tackle challenges. By Mayo Clinic Staff

If you’re in denial, you’re not being realistic about something that’s happening in your life — something that might be obvious to those around you.

In some cases, a little denial can be a good thing. Being in denial for a short period can be a healthy coping mechanism, giving you time to adjust to a painful or stressful issue. It might also be a precursor to making some sort of change in your life. Still, denial has a dark side. Being in denial for too long can prevent you from effectively dealing with issues that require action, such as a health crisis or a financial situation.

Find out when denial can help — and when it can be a roadblock.
Understanding denial and its purpose

Refusing to acknowledge that something’s wrong is a way of coping with emotional conflict, stress, painful thoughts, threatening information and anxiety.

When you’re in denial, you:

Refuse to acknowledge a stressful problem or situation
Avoid facing the facts of the situation
Minimize the consequences of the situation

In its strictest sense, denial is an unconscious process. You don’t generally decide to be in denial about something. But some research suggests that denial might have a conscious component — on some level, you might choose to be in denial.
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March 18, 2014 10:37am
dirty harry

they were great to watch…very un- PC

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/9839587/Two-Fat-Ladies-chef-Clarissa-Dickson-Wright-dies
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March 18, 2014 10:38am
wreck1080

@chickadee — too late for Auckalnd, but you should consider a move away from Auckland.

This started in the mid-90’s — someone made a decision to allow mass immigration of chinese. Not sure what changed then to allow this , but it did and todays Auckland is vastly changed in population makeup. Just look at the businesses and radio stations catering to chinese.

I have a theory this began through the selling of our educational facilities to young chinese — these young chinese grew up and are now moving their families and friends here too.
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March 18, 2014 10:38am
flipper

A message for Shaunie Maitland….

1. Go re-read what was said ….and learn who is really the retard.

2. Obesity cannot be usefully measured by the use of BMI.

3. Bering medically obese and BMI “obese” are not the same – by any measure, at any age.

4. Most people lf Polynesian or Negro extraction would fail a BMI/obesity test.

5. All those heavily muscled secondary school rugby players of Tongan or Samoan extraction are a maitlanbd myth, are they not?

6. Almost every All Black forward, and many backs, are obese by the BMI measure.

So seanretard, take your half baked views and shove them.
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March 18, 2014 10:40am
Chuck Bird

SA Criminal Law Consolidation Act 1935 (Section 49)
The age of consent for sexual interactions is 17 years.
If a person is charged with engaging in sexual activities with a person under the legal age, a legal defence is outlined in section 49(4). It states that:
It shall be a defence to a charge under subsection (3) to prove that –
(a) the person with whom the accused is alleged to have had sexual intercourse was, on the date on which the offence is alleged to have been committed, of or above the age of sixteen years; and
(b) the accused –
(i) was, on the date on which the offence is alleged to have been committed, under the age of seventeen years; or
(ii) believed on reasonable grounds that the person with whom he is alleged to have had sexual intercourse was of or above the age of seventeen years.

It is clearly against the law for a 21 year old to have sex with a 13 year old in South Australia.
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March 18, 2014 10:44am
griffith

flippy everyone has stated the standard bmi does not give an overview of obessty if applied to the poly race.

I would guess you are as fat as a cream donut 😆

your comprehension is the fault not any ones posting.
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March 18, 2014 10:48am
ShawnLH

Stephieboy,

A conspiracy theory is by it’s very nature something cannot be proven one way or another. That is part of what makes it attractive to some people. Pointing out that the IPCC has a bad track record with regards to it’s predictions (and eco-doomsadayers), and that some members have admitted lying for political reasons, such as the claim that the Himalayas would be submerged by 2035, is simply a statement of fact, not a conspiracy theory.

The world is a complex place, but human beings sometimes do not deal well with complexity, so they simplify things into easy categories that make the world, to them at least, easier to deal with.

Both the claim that nothing at all is happening climate wise, and the claim that the IPCC is always right and true and that AGW is the main cause of climate change, are both attempts to over simplify a complex issue.
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March 18, 2014 10:49am
Harriet

Chuck#

Thanks for looking that up.

The laws I talked about is where both the people engaging in sex are minors. There cannot be more than a 2yr age gap between them.
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March 18, 2014 10:52am
ShawnLH

I would also point out that if Griff was genuinely concerned about the issue, he would try to make his arguments in such a way that does not make people defensive, such as using “wingnuttery” and other ad hominems. This only puts peoples backs up, and thus far less likely to listen to his arguments. Which is why I suspect that he’s just trolling, and not terribly concerned with the state of the planet at all.
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March 18, 2014 10:54am
Nostalgia-NZ

griff, unashamed about copying others, has resumed on KB speaking about himself in the third person, just like dime does. Small thing I know. Of course griff has revealed that he is now a care-giver to his father and this morning, he reveals, also to others – something which must be appreciated. With all these changes, third person talker, care giver etc perhaps a new ‘brand’ might have been the order of the day – ‘Florence Nightingale’ or ‘florry’ for short.
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March 18, 2014 10:55am
ShawnLH

“griff, unashamed about copying others, has resumed on KB speaking about himself in the third person”

Never a good sign. In all seriousness I have wondered about his state of mind health wise.
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March 18, 2014 10:58am
dime

argh another day of the warmists insisting we convert to their church?

fun.
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March 18, 2014 11:00am
Harriet

Calling him ‘florry’ will lighten his daily load. That’ll do. 😎

Unless he’s bullshitting. But that would be rather sick.
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March 18, 2014 11:02am
Ross12

One for Griff

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/marijuana-pot-weed-statistics-climate-change
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March 18, 2014 11:03am
dime

In the US, 80% of rapists come from fatherless homes…

Wonder what the stat is over here? are we allowed to know?

In the US, more males are raped than females. Doubt thats the same here. Our prison system seems… nicer.
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March 18, 2014 11:11am
Nostalgia-NZ

He could end up a ‘florry’ driver for an Asian supermarket delivering live ‘flucks’ and other tasty morsels from the markets. Flucking florry drivers these days.
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March 18, 2014 11:12am
Manolo

Putin laughs at the Messiah: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/03/russian-deputy-pm-laughs-at-obamas-sanctions/
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March 18, 2014 11:16am
Weihana

griffith (175 comments) says:
March 18th, 2014 at 10:33 am

barring some very significant geological event cooling is impossible

What about some astrophysical event?

The surface of the sun has been surprisingly calm of late – with fewer sunspots than anytime in the last century – prompting curious scientists to wonder just what it might mean here on Earth.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=11162126

Unlikely to result in cooling in the long term, but impossible?
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March 18, 2014 11:18am
cha

Yeah, fucking hilarious Manolo.
/

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/russia-could-still-turn-the-u-s-into-radioactive-dust-news-anchor-in-moscow-reminds-viewers/?
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March 18, 2014 11:27am
Jack5

PC hypocrisy shows its nasty and tyrannical side with Ministry of Education “inquiries” into what is being taught in Rudolf Steiner schools.

After complaints, the Ministry is reining Steiner schools into its neo-apartheid fold. Here’s the Ministry reporting on an inquiry into a Steiner school on the Kapiti coast:

As a result of complaints, there was now a greater curriculum focus on the Treaty of Waitangi and te reo…

Steiner, who died in 1925 aged 64, in common with many, perhaps most whites of those times, had some views that today could be called racist. However, in the seminal years of what was to become Nazism and shortly before Steiner’s death, the then main theorist of the Nazis alleged Steiner was a Jew (he wasn’t) and Hitler attacked Steiner’s philosophy as being “pro-Jewish”.

Steiner did found a spiritualist movement that seems to me weird but it did attract the interest of many famous literary people of the day including W.B.Yeats, the writers Jack London, Lewis Carroll, D.H. Lawrence, T.S. Eliot, and even Kurt Vonnegut. Ghandi, Sibelius and Thomas Edison are also said to have been interested, but it seems to have influenced chiefly artistic people. The artist Fassbinder, much admired in Northland, is a Steiner graduate.

If Steiner is to be judged by the racial standards of his day, what of Kipling now that Indians are settling in NZ? What of Shakespeare and his caricatures of the Welsh, the Irish and Scots?

More important, will the Education Department consider the rise in Maori culture schools to be racist? Will it consider the one-sided views being taught on environmentalism and on NZ’s colonial history racist? Perhaps it’s up to us to complain to the Education Department about this. But will the Education Department lefties investigate? When pigs fly!

The sad thing is there is no political party in NZ which will stand up against such bureaucratic PC totalitarianism. While National and ACT are to be applauded for their promotion of new charter schools, Nationals’ Minister, Parata, has closed or amalgamated a swathe of schools in Christchurch, but is reinforcing race-based Maori schooling in the city.

The Department of Education’s persecution of the Steiner school:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/9837998/Inferences-of-racism-rejected-by-school
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March 18, 2014 11:32am
griffith

Nosey

How about discussing capital punishment?

Should a double convicted murderer be hung?

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/energy-budget.html
Hansen’s team concluded that Earth has absorbed more than half a watt more solar energy per square meter than it let off throughout the six year study period. The calculated value of the imbalance (0.58 watts of excess energy per square meter) is more than twice as much as the reduction in the amount of solar energy supplied to the planet between maximum and minimum solar activity (0.25 watts per square meter).
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March 18, 2014 11:40am
mikenmild

Jack5
And the parents complaining and withdrawing their children: were they imagining things?
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March 18, 2014 11:41am
Harriet

“…..In the US, more males are raped than females. Doubt thats the same here. Our prison system seems… nicer…..”

So is our millitary. There has been a huge increase in US male millitary personal laying charges of rape against other military ‘men’.
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March 18, 2014 11:41am
cha

Oh, and a shed load of new ~~bribes~~ entitlement promises, a market close to free fall, a tanking currency and $50 billion in capital outflow, yup, he’s laughing.

Investors pulled $33 billion out of [Russia] in January and February, and that figure could hit $55 billion by the end of March, according to Russian investment bank Renaissance Capital.

Russia faces a hefty bill for supporting Crimea. The region currently depends on Ukraine for roughly 70% of its budget, 90% of its water, and most of its energy and food supplies.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/17/news/economy/russia-crimea-sanctions/
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March 18, 2014 11:42am
Lucia Maria

Jack,

I used to have my kids in that school, but I pulled them out when I became Catholic due incompatibilities with Anthroposophy, after I delved into a number of Rudolph Steiner’s books. The article says that 14 children and 4 children have left the school – for a school of the small size that I know it is, that is a huge number. Something must have happened.
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March 18, 2014 11:49am
chickadee

@ wreck1080
That is what my Dad said except he used different language lol.
Lots of people disagree with my complaining. I assume they are all old with freehold homes. We hate Baby Boomers sometimes. My parents generation had free tertiary education and no foreign competition for their first home. Why don’t Baby Boomers think of others for a change. Or do we have to wait until they all die 🙁
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March 18, 2014 11:50am
nasska

cha

This writer queries whether Russia may have been drawn into a situation that will be financially crippling. That may have been the US objective all along.

Ref: http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141020/alexander-j-motyl/is-losing-crimea-a-loss
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March 18, 2014 11:53am
cha

Boom.

The Kremlin’s fundamental mistake is to have ignored its economic weakness and dependence on Europe. On Monday, March 3, the Russian RTS index plummeted 12 percent, while Gazprom fell by 17 percent, as it will lose its valuable Ukrainian market and perhaps also transit to Europe.

The ruble fell by 2.5 percent in early trading, and the central bank was forced to raise its policy rate from 5.5 percent to 7.0 percent to impede the run on the ruble. The Russian economy was set to stagnate, but now it is likely to contract.

With its great economic power, Europe can have a great impact just by applying existing rules more rigorously. By normal standards, many big Russian state companies, notably Gazprom, would be considered organized crime syndicates, and according to current legal standards, European financial institutions should not be allowed to deal with them. To a large extent, the United States has already done so.

[…]

Almost half of Russia’s exports go to Europe, and three-quarters of its total exports consist of oil and gas. A quarter of Russia’s exports consist of gas exported to Europe, mostly at excessive prices in dubious contracts. The energy boom is over, and Europe can turn the tables on Russia after the cuts to gas supplies in 2006 and 2009. Europe can replace this gas with liquefied natural gas, gas from Norway, shale gas, and other energy sources. If the European Union were to sanction Russia’s gas supply to Europe, Russia would lose $100 billion (€73 billion), or one-fifth of its export revenues, and the Russian economy would be in rampant crisis.

http://www.piie.com/publications/opeds/oped.cfm?ResearchID=2581
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March 18, 2014 11:57am
ShawnLH

Putin may be popular now, but Russia’s dependence on foreign investment and trade will mean that sooner or later, the economic consequences of his actions will start to bite the poor and middle class. Could be that Russia is headed towards it’s own Orange revolution.
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March 18, 2014 12:01pm
RightNow

Labour faithful in full denial, comments seen at the Herald:

“Does anyone actually believe this poll? What a load of rubbish.”
kiwigal

“It’s simple. Who do they ask in the poll?? How many?? We are totally sure it is completely not representative of the actual situation, given the continued gaffes of the outgoing national party, they have totally stuffed it this time with their china business connections and flag distractions. Are NZer’s totally blind and stupid?”
PePh –

“I believe that you commentators have a lot to do with the ratings. How many articles in the last month have been about Labour and how bad they are? Answer that question and the influence you may have, and you will see why these figures are what they are. Same as the last election. Shame on you.”
Greek

“Herald DigiPolls always over-represent National’s support. And Herald journalists always support National.
I see the game plan is the same as last election – paint Labour losing the election as a foregone conclusion. Start early and repeat often.”
Sarah

“Many of us don’t buy into the hype and blatant propaganda expressed in this newspaper.
The polls are not that accurate as they are manipulated.
I go on what people are saying on a day to day basis, and that to me shows a much more accurate view on how people are feeling about the Govt of the day.
Where I work, live and socialise shows a huge majority are unhappy with the unsavoury practices of this current Govt, and many are alarmed by the large scale of influence of foreign Governments {China and the US} on our laws and on our politicians.
I am a swing voter, and I would say that about any Govt blue, red, green or otherwise that was running the country the way this National party are.
I am not the only one disgusted by what is blatant cronyism and the teetering on the edges of corruption that is rife with this National party.”

Metal Soprano

Re Metal Soprano “I am a swing voter” – I guess he swings between Greens, Labour and Mana.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11221484
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March 18, 2014 12:02pm
Left Right and Centre

NZ cultural diversity….

I used the fact that you can’t spit now without hitting an Asian to my advantage…..

And asked one of them about ‘shaoxing’ wine and ‘white sesame’ for an ‘Asian lemon chicken’ recipe.

I heard the correct pronunciation and so I’m instantly better at the word. Goes something like ‘shoushing’ ‘shou’ as is ‘shout’, same for ‘shing’ but with an ‘ing’ instead of an ‘out’ on the end. Reminds me of the noise of knife blades being sharpened. I can’t try it without doing the accent. Ok I can but it’s less fun.

I knew all those fucking Asians would come in handy for something sooner or later – numerical certainty 🙂

BTW – the chicken was damned good. Tasted like a takeaway – oh yeah.
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March 18, 2014 12:03pm
Harriet

“…..Why don’t Baby Boomers think of others for a change….”

They have always thought of others as they all had large families – and the mum’s looked after the neighbourhoods also.

The next generations don’t have as many kids.

So who’s selfish now newbie? 😎
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March 18, 2014 12:04pm
Lucia Maria

Ahh, meant to say, “14 children and 4 teachers” in my comment at 11:49am. There’s also an extra comma in there that shouldn’t be there (for the pedants).
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March 18, 2014 12:04pm
JMS

If they wanted to, the EU and the US could send the Russian economy into a tailspin.

Because it’s early spring in Europe, any Russian threat to cut gas supplies to the EU in retaliation for sanctions would be of little concern.
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March 18, 2014 12:11pm
Judith

“…..Why don’t Baby Boomers think of others for a change….”

The Baby Boomer age cohort was the first generation to be born after WWII. The first generation to realise that humanity was capable of mass inhumanity. They were the first post modern generation after Nagasaki and Hiroshima, the death camps and holocaust, the dropping of huge bombs on large civilian populations in many cities of Europe. As a generation they have never forgotten that the the world could end in the flash of heat and light.

And so they have constantly tried to change institutions and culture through the feminist revolution, the anti-war effort, the civil rights movement and so on – to accuse them of not thinking of others, is a falsehood. The Baby Boomers by sheer number have been resource intensive on the planet – but their births were not of their doing – Baby Boomers have spoken out against the injustices that their parents hated, but frequently accepted without question.

Thinking only of themselves is one accusation you cannot aim at the Boomers.
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March 18, 2014 12:20pm
cha

nasska

Or part of the plan.

Another person who has been swept into the mainstream is one of Mr. Prokhanov’s former protégés, Aleksandr G. Dugin, who, in the late 1990s, called for “the blinding dawn of a new Russian Revolution, fascism — borderless as our lands, and red as our blood.”

Virulently anti-American, Mr. Dugin has urged a “conservative revolution” that combines left-wing economics and right-wing cultural traditionalism. In a 1997 book, he introduced the idea of building a Eurasian empire “constructed on the fundamental principle of the common enemy,” which he identified as Atlanticism, liberal values, and geopolitical control by the United States.

Building a Eurasian economic bloc, including Ukraine, became a central goal for Mr. Putin upon his return to the presidency. His point man on the project was the economist Sergei Glazyev, an associate of Mr. Prokhanov’s and Mr. Dugin’s.

In an interview, Mr. Dugin was evasive when asked about his personal contact with Mr. Putin, saying only that he had been “in close contact with the Kremlin, and with those in the Kremlin who make decisions,” for the last 15 years. But he said the president, whom he described as a Henry Kissinger-style “pragmatist,” had embraced a version of his ideology because it served his interests domestically.

“It is popular, it is populist, it helps to explain all the processes which are going on in the country, and gradually — just by the logic of things, pragmatically, he becomes closer and closer to this ideology, just by the logic of events,” he said. He also offered a more human reason: that Mr. Putin had been stung by Western leaders’ apparent preference for his predecessor, Dmitri A. Medvedev, and then by the antigovernment protests that he believed were backed by the West.

Though a number of high-ranking officials around Mr. Putin have argued strenuously against this ideological shift, Mr. Dugin said that their influence had been waning steadily, and that the Crimean crisis left them no option but to “be quiet, or gather up their suitcases and leave Russia.”

“Anti-Americanism has become the main ideology, the main worldview among Russians,” he said. “Now, after Crimea, we have passed the point of no return. There will not be another Medvedev. There will never be another ‘reset,’ ever.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/world/europe/foes-of-america-in-russia-crave-rupture-in-ties.html?
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March 18, 2014 12:29pm
ShawnLH

“they have constantly tried to change institutions and culture through the feminist revolution, the anti-war effort, the civil rights movement and so on”

It’s called Cultural Marxism.

” to accuse them of not thinking of others, is a falsehood.”

Depends on your view of Marxists.

New Left feminism is just Left Wing totalitarianism aimed at women and the family. The “anti-war” movement was just support for Communism in disguise. The Civil Rights movement had noble aims but use ignoble means (the power of the state and the resulting destruction of freedom of association.)

The Left always claims to “love humanity” but it’s actions and real intentions speak louder than it’s rhetoric.
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March 18, 2014 12:30pm
David Garrett

..Back to the BMI and Polynesians..When I went to Tonga in 1999 I was astounded to find that Jonah Lomu was just average size up there…But I dont think the BMI has much value even for us whities – I understand that ALL of the All Blacks, whatever their race, are “obese” according to the BMI…

I wont embarrass her with the actual weight, but according to the BMI my estranged Tongan wife is “grossly obese”…She’s actually a strong fit woman with very little fat…

Much as it pains me to say it, I think Griff’s comment was somewhat misunderstood…at least on this issue!
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March 18, 2014 12:31pm
mikenmild

Yes Shawn, because advocating for peace and fairness for all could only be described as cultural marxism
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March 18, 2014 12:32pm
Viking2

TCC rejects $18.80 wage

Great, sanity is beginning to come.

Tauranga City Councillors shelved a guest speaker’s push to pay a living wage to 51 per cent of council’s staff paid less than $18.80 an hour. – See more at: http://sunlive.co.nz/news/67117-tcc-rejects-1880-wage.html#sthash.xOgy7u7e.dpuf

http://sunlive.co.nz/news/67117-tcc-rejects-1880-wage.html
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March 18, 2014 12:34pm
Harriet

“……The first generation to realise that humanity was capable of mass inhumanity….”

Judith don’t be silly.

Genghis Khan was bloody efficent – he scared shitloads of people.
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March 18, 2014 12:34pm
ShawnLH

“Yes Shawn, because advocating for peace and fairness for all could only be described as cultural marxism”

What the Left claims to be advocating for, and what they are really advocating, are often not the same thing.
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March 18, 2014 12:37pm
griffith

. Pointing out that the IPCC has a bad track record with regards to it’s predictions (and eco-doomsadayers), and that some members have admitted lying for political reasons, such as the claim that the Himalayas would be submerged by 2035, is simply a statement of fact, not a conspiracy theory.

Repeating unsubstantiated rumors and gross distortions is a result of you inability to process information due to your mental state of denial

statement of fact, submerged by 2035 Fuck are you really that stupid that you think any one in science with any credibility would suggest such a thing. You are projecting your religion on science now naoh and the flood 😆 the wingnut god whack. seeps out.

If you can cite this in any of the ipcc reports I will admit defeat
http://www.ipcc.ch/

members 😆
Shows you are not even aware of the IPCC and its processes.

And the reason I insult and ridicule is how else do you talk to such stupid idiots? I have tried rational but you wingnuts arent capable of rational so I must operate on your level. not really the reason for the ridicule its been posted at least twice this week. 😆 you are just to stupid to realise when you are being deliberately manipulated. 😆

Global conspiracy of all the worlds scientific organisations to pervert the future of humanity .
please discuss the organizational structure of you conspiracy and elaborate on those in control shawnlh muppet.
It isnt the IPCC that is just you trying to avoid reality its all major scientific organisations in the world along with just about every government ngo, and country.
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March 18, 2014 12:38pm
Ross12

Don’t get too excited about the polls , DC has spoken

“We’ve got more work to do,” he told reporters on Tuesday.

“It reflects a particular point in time that is already behind us. We’re in a new phase now.”

New phase ?? Another Tui Billboard !!!
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March 18, 2014 12:39pm
Judith

@ Harriet (3,888 comments) says:
March 18th, 2014 at 12:34 pm

He sure as hell did, but even he did not scare the number of people that the atomic bombs did. The world’s population in 1945 was a hell of a lot bigger than it was when old Genghis did his thing, and even when he did, he didn’t manage to kill them all with one foul swoop, or click of a button.
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March 18, 2014 12:42pm
Ryan Sproull

The Department of Education’s persecution of the Steiner school:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/9837998/Inferences-of-racism-rejected-by-school

Ugh.
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March 18, 2014 12:43pm
NoCash

^ just like the search for MH370 that has entered a new phase and at a loss still…
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March 18, 2014 12:43pm
rangitoto

From the horrid: “Labour Leader David Cunliffe says support for the National Government will “corrode” over coming months as public discomfort over perceptions of crony capitalism such as the Oravida affair grows.”

“Corrode”. What a muppet. Is that his Harvard education showing?

The opposition still haven’t worked out that the pathetic smear attempts aren’t working. I notice wo posted a tweet with a shopped pic showing Cunliffe as comical Ali. Seems appropriate.
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March 18, 2014 12:44pm
Judith

@ ShawnLH (458 comments) says:
March 18th, 2014 at 12:30 pm

Are you pathetic enough to try and imply that all Baby Boomers are Marxists?

You really are the most desperate of desperate people, aren’t you?
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March 18, 2014 12:45pm
Harriet

“It reflects a particular point in time that is already behind us. We’re in a new phase now.”

What – with all the same old deadwood?

LOL.
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March 18, 2014 12:45pm
NoCash

I was replying to Ross12… when I post:

^ just like the search for MH370 that has entered a new phase and at a loss still…
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March 18, 2014 12:45pm
dime

“Yes Shawn, because advocating for peace and fairness for all could only be described as cultural marxism”

lol where to start. actually, any point?
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March 18, 2014 12:47pm
ShawnLH

““Labour Leader David Cunliffe says support for the National Government will “corrode” over coming months as public discomfort over perceptions of crony capitalism such as the Oravida affair grows.”

It is far more likely that what little support for Labour is left will “corrode” as public discomfort over perceptions of secret financial backers makes Cunliffe un-electable.
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March 18, 2014 12:49pm
nasska

….”you are just to stupid to realise when you are being deliberately manipulated. “….

But not stupid enough to neglect to follow the money & realise that AGW is a made to order crisis for the proponents of a NWO to solve with our money, resources & wellbeing.

Sorry Griff…..no chocolate fish.
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March 18, 2014 12:51pm
Judith

@ ShawnLH (459 comments) says:
March 18th, 2014 at 12:37 pm

So now all baby boomers are marxist and lefties – wow keep it up Shawn – will the next comment be they are all females too?
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March 18, 2014 12:55pm
griffith

“Dark Money” Funds Climate Change Denial Effort
A Drexel University study finds that a large slice of donations to organizations that deny global warming are funneled through third-party pass-through organizations that conceal the original funder
Dec 23, 2013 |By Douglas Fischer and The Daily Climate
Dusk at U.S. Capitol, Washington, D.C.

A shift to untraceable donations by organizations denying climate change undermines democracy, according to the author of a new study tracking contributions to such groups.
Wikimedia Commons/Carol M. Highsmith

The largest, most-consistent money fueling the climate denial movement are a number of well-funded conservative foundations built with so-called “dark money,” or concealed donations, according to an analysis released Friday afternoon.

The study, by Drexel University environmental sociologist Robert Brulle, is the first academic effort to probe the organizational underpinnings and funding behind the climate denial movement.

It found that the amount of money flowing through third-party, pass-through foundations like DonorsTrust and Donors Capital, whose funding cannot be traced, has risen dramatically over the past five years.

In all, 140 foundations funneled $558 million to almost 100 climate denial organizations from 2003 to 2010.
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March 18, 2014 12:56pm
ShawnLH

“Are you pathetic enough to try and imply that all Baby Boomers are Marxists?”

The BB generation was heavily influenced by Cultural Marxism, probably more than any other since, as the post-war Frankfurt school was in full propaganda mode during that time, especially in schools.
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March 18, 2014 12:56pm
Chuck Bird

What a bloody idiot Cunliffe is. He has a strong dislike and an obsession with Judith Collins. There is no doubt Collins acted unwisely but trying to make a big issue of who paid for a dinner is just stupid and petty. For many of Cunliffe’s supporters going to a expensive restaurant is something special but it is not for senior politicians. Contrast this to Labour’s attitude towards Len Brown where there was a real conflict of interest.

Cunliffe on poll result: ‘We’ve got more work to do’

Meanwhile, Ms Collins faced further questions about the Oravida affair this morning, particularly around the October dinner in Beijing which she, along with her senior advisor Margaret Malcolm, “close friends” Stone Shi and Julia Xu from dairy and seafood export company Oravida, and a senior Chinese border control official attended.

She said she did not know who paid for the meal.

“I’ve already said I didn’t pay for it. Margaret Malcolm didn’t pay for it the taxpayer didn’t. I don’t know who did and I haven’t asked.”

Asked whether the fact that it appeared either Oravida or the Chinese official paid for dinner added to perceptions of a conflict of interest, Ms Collins, said: “actually it doesn’t”, before walking away from reporters.

The fact Ms Collins walked away from questions about the dinner was “not a good look at all”, Mr Cunliffe said.

“She should come clean. Who paid for the dinner? Who was the Chinese official? Why did the ambassador not attend? Those are what New Zealanders want to know… they want to know how deep the conflict of interest goes.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11221828
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March 18, 2014 12:57pm
ShawnLH

“It reflects a particular point in time that is already behind us. We’re in a new phase now.”

To be fair Cunliffe is right. They have moved from the Fail phase to the Epic Fail phase, 🙂
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March 18, 2014 12:58pm
All_on_Red

Did Cunliffe attend his wifes, Christmas function at the Law Firm and who paid? We have a right to know!
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March 18, 2014 1:01pm
David Garrett

I must say I saw that clip of Cunners….it shows his years of experience at obfuscation and answering a different question from the one asked…but not much else…
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March 18, 2014 1:01pm
Judith

@ ShawnLH (460 comments) says:
March 18th, 2014 at 12:56 pm

As I said – desperate! 🙂
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March 18, 2014 1:02pm
mandk

Judith @ 12.20
The baby boomers also encouraged us to dive into the cesspit of moral relativism 🙂
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March 18, 2014 1:03pm
ShawnLH

Just the facts Judith. Desperate would be pretending that your visceral hatred of John Key is shared by large numbers of other people.
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March 18, 2014 1:06pm
b1gdaddynz

According to BMI most professional athletes are obese and even Christian Cullen at 1.8M and 85-90Kg is Obese; clearly not the best tool for measuring healthy weight.
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March 18, 2014 1:06pm
mikenmild

Well mandk, let’s hear it for moral relativism.
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March 18, 2014 1:07pm
Ryan Sproull

Morality is relative, mandk. That’s a fact, not a lifestyle choice.
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March 18, 2014 1:08pm
ShawnLH

“The baby boomers also encouraged us to dive into the cesspit of moral relativism”

To be fair to the BB’s, and contra Judith’s claim, not all BB’ers joined the New Left. In the US quite a lot ended up on the Right and voted strongly for Reagan.
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March 18, 2014 1:08pm
ShawnLH

“Morality is relative, mandk. That’s a fact, not a lifestyle choice.”

An absolute fact or a relative fact? 😉
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March 18, 2014 1:10pm
Ryan Sproull

An absolute fact or a relative fact?

Hah. An absolute fact. Truth is not relative.
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March 18, 2014 1:11pm
ShawnLH

“Well mandk, let’s hear it for moral relativism.”

I agree. For a start, why do we keep saying that rapists, child abusers and serial killers are bad? It’s all relative you know! 🙂
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March 18, 2014 1:12pm
Ryan Sproull

I agree. For a start, why do we keep saying that rapists, child abusers and serial killers are bad? It’s all relative you know! 🙂

Morality being relative doesn’t mean that morality doesn’t exist.
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March 18, 2014 1:13pm
ShawnLH

“Truth is not relative.”

Then neither is morality, for exactly the same reason.
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March 18, 2014 1:13pm
mikenmild

Depends on definitions Shawn. Some on this thread appeared to think it okay for a 21-year-old to have sex with a 13-year-old. Others would call that child abuse or rape.
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March 18, 2014 1:14pm
mandk

@ Ryan Sproull,
How can you possibly claim something as a fact, when everything is relative?
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March 18, 2014 1:15pm
mikenmild

We’re charging right into some pretty deep philosophical territory here folks. Buckle up and hold on tight.
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March 18, 2014 1:16pm
ShawnLH

“Morality being relative doesn’t mean that morality doesn’t exist.”

Yes it does. If it’s just relative then it’s just opinion, not morality.
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March 18, 2014 1:16pm
cha

The “anti-war” movement was just support for Communism in disguise.

Golly, growing up in a house where young men I never knew looked down on me, where my mother cried on the birthday of the remaining twin, the birthday my aunt tried for 70 years to ignore and my father telling me tales about older brothers who never came home – I had no idea I was living with communists.
/
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March 18, 2014 1:17pm
ShawnLH

“How can you possibly claim something as a fact, when everything is relative?”

It;s called being conveniently selective.
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March 18, 2014 1:18pm
Judith

@ mandk (596 comments) says:
March 18th, 2014 at 1:03 pm

They certainly did!

@ Shawn

Facts as you say Shawn. The results of the last election showed that less that 50% of the votes went to people other than John Key’s party – therefore your claim is not supported by the data. The ‘larger’ number of people did not support him.

You have tried, (and I see are now back tracking a bit) to imply that the entire BB cohort was marxist and leftist – the political results simply do not support your thesis buddy. The ‘facts’ are agin ya!
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March 18, 2014 1:19pm
ShawnLH

To be fair I suspect Ryan is talking about cultural relativity and differing cultural understandings of morality. However there is a hidden assumption behind that. Anyone care to guess?
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March 18, 2014 1:20pm
ShawnLH

“You have tried, (and I see are now back tracking a bit) to imply that the entire BB cohort was marxist and leftist”

Actually no, I was specifically speaking about the various movements you were talking about. But I’m happy to admit that my choice of words did not make that clear. However, it is true that the BB generation was heavily influenced by the Frankfurt School.
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March 18, 2014 1:23pm
nickb

I might be missing something but I don’t see how teaching someone about a racist doctrine is teaching racism.

Does that mean that all references to Nazi Germany must be erased from the school curriculum?
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March 18, 2014 1:24pm
Ryan Sproull

How can you possibly claim something as a fact, when everything is relative?

I didn’t say that everything was relative. I said that morality is relative.

It;s called being conveniently selective.

Shawn, is it true or false that oysters taste good?
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March 18, 2014 1:24pm
Tauhei Notts

Somebody tell me if I am getting this wrong.
Judith Collins, her husband and his colleagues had a slap up feed with a senior Chinese border control official.
Quite possibly the Chow picked up the tab. They are very generous in that manner as I have personally seen in the past.
And the Chinese really like good food and good company. Good company does not make a scene of working out who picked up the tab. To do so is to be totally ungracious. As ungracious as a Labour Party person.
I still think this is all a bad tempered piece by the Labour apparatchiks in the civil service who are pissed off that they could never ever get their minister access to such a high ranking official like Judith’s hubby could. With people like Judith Collins and her spouse, maybe we do not need so many very highly paid Sir Humphrey’s in Wellington.
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March 18, 2014 1:25pm
ShawnLH

“Shawn, is it true or false that oysters taste good?”

Taste and morality are not the same thing.
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March 18, 2014 1:26pm
Ryan Sproull

Taste and morality are not the same thing.

Neither are truth and morality. I’m “conveniently selective” when I treat different things differently – and when you do it, you are…?
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March 18, 2014 1:28pm
Tauhei Notts

Ryan at 1,24 said that morality is relative.
Reminds me of the Maori horse trainer, who had just trained several very good horses. He said;
“Success is relative. The more success I have, the more relatives I’ve got.”
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March 18, 2014 1:29pm
mikenmild

Shawn: Murder, good or bad?
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March 18, 2014 1:29pm
dime

When was BMI last updated?

I think im meant to be about 83kg lol if have to chop off a leg.

How many people were lifting weights when BMI was last updated?

What was the size of say the All Blacks centre back then? 85kg? as opposed to 100 now?
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March 18, 2014 1:29pm
ShawnLH

“Neither are truth and morality”

Yes, they really are Ryan. That is the flaw in your argument. Your treating two things differently that cannot be separated.
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March 18, 2014 1:30pm
ShawnLH

“Shawn: Murder, good or bad?”

Bad obviously. Your point is….?

Oh, and define murder.
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March 18, 2014 1:31pm
Ryan Sproull

Yes, they really are Ryan. That is the flaw in your argument. Your treating two things differently that cannot be separated.

If truth and morality are the same thing, perhaps you can tell me, is the following statement good or evil?

1+1=2.
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March 18, 2014 1:32pm
Judith

@ shawn

So who decides what is ‘moral’ Shawn? And who gets to decide the decider?

I’m sure you would find many things that the vast majority of kiwis think are okay, as immoral, due to your religious beliefs – but who is right – the majority or the religious ?

If it is the religious, then in what context – is it the country in which they dwell, their own homes, or the entire world, and given that, what then makes one religions morality, more acceptable than another … and so on?

Or in other words…

Who has the right to decide and claim that oysters taste good?
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March 18, 2014 1:32pm
mikenmild

Well Shawn, if murder is bad then we need to consider the related question – what is murder? Is late-term abortion murder, for example? Or execution of a criminal?
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March 18, 2014 1:33pm
Sofia

Fonterra’s chairman John Wilson says Government ministers must not be put off visiting New Zealand companies or meeting Chinese officials in China by the controversy over Justice Minister Judith Collins meetings with Oravida.
Mr Wilson is in Beijing for a visit by Prime Minister John Key, who will arrive today to front up to China’s leaders, China’s state media and Fonterra’s clients over the false contamination scare last August.

The Chinese aren’t silly – they are likely to want to see John Key drink some.
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March 18, 2014 1:33pm
Ryan Sproull

Well Shawn, if murder is bad then we need to consider the related question – what is murder? Is late-term abortion murder, for example? Or execution of a criminal?

Mikenmild, are you arguing that morality is relative or that morality is complicated? I suspect Shawn wouldn’t disagree that it is complicated, but just because it’s complicated, doesn’t mean it’s relative.
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March 18, 2014 1:35pm
mikenmild

It’s relative, and complicated. But my point was the definitions of what is moral change all the time.
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March 18, 2014 1:37pm
ShawnLH

“If truth and morality are the same thing”

Ahh, but I didn’t say they were the same thing, I said they were inseparable. Try again.
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March 18, 2014 1:37pm
Manolo

Long live the Queen: http://www.spectator.co.uk/australia/australia-features/9153931/more-british-than-britain/
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March 18, 2014 1:37pm

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