General Debate 13 March 2014

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Harriet

Breeders: How Gay Men Destroyed the Left.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/03/breeders_how_gay_men_destroyed_the_left.html

Walk into an orphanage, any orphanage, where kids range in age from infants to teens and yell out –

“Who wants a mum and dad?”

And you’ll see the 2 results – all kids want a ‘mum and dad’ – and so no child is ‘born gay’.

“….We do live in a nation where slaveholders took the infants from the arms of my foremothers and sold them for their own profit. We do live in a nation where the government snatched American Indian children from their families and “re-educated” them by forbidding them to speak their language and practice their traditions……….
………..No defender of third-world people can seriously turn a blind eye to surrogacy, now that baby brokers are turning to cheaper venues like Thailand, Mexico, India, Ghana, and Nigeria to farm babies. Often the aspiring couple brings eggs donated by a white woman and then has the child gestate inside a brown woman’s uterus. The conditions of some of these baby factories are, needless to say, atrocious, and little more than barracks patrolled by thugs….”

It is almost inconceivable that the movement to legitimise surrogacy could have set up shop on the Left, where the three most sacred cows are race, class, and gender – all of which are areas of inequality aggravated and abused by the surrogacy industry’s pattern of using poor women of color, especially overseas, to breed human beings who are then placed under the ownership of wealthy men, the lion’s share of whom are white. 😎
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March 13, 2014 8:00am
nasska

It’s a good job that the Catholic Church wasn’t around to denounce surrogacy when Jesus was born.
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March 13, 2014 8:06am
igm

It is with sadness one has to watch embarrassment of a capable, hard working, and honest politician, at the instigation of a weirdo leftie, who has contributed nothing to this country, other than a deviant agenda, backed by envious good for nothing deviants it represents.
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March 13, 2014 8:08am
stephieboy

Harriet, the rather nasty and vindictive Ameriacan Thinker in action,

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/04/the_obama_lie_that_drove_the_b.html

The article has no factual foundation.!
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March 13, 2014 8:08am
Bovver

Don’t worry Harriet, judgement day is just around the corner and we can all look forward to the rapture……….
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March 13, 2014 8:11am
WineOh

@igm … wait… wat?
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March 13, 2014 8:11am
Bovver

Crusher dug her own hole igm, Paddy just managed to exploit it, and now JK is seriously pissed off and her parliamentary career has taken a hit with SJ being the winner.
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March 13, 2014 8:15am
Harriet

“…..It’s a good job that the Catholic Church wasn’t around to denounce surrogacy when Jesus was born….”

“…..The greatest evil of slavery was the fact that children were taken from their parents and sold to other people, because the wound could never be healed. Even once they were freed, the descendants were denied their own origins and had to live with the scars of having been torn from their own kin, as well as the memory of having been someone’s property. As a descendant of slaves, I know this. I can sit in an office with my PhD and sip designer latte, gaze out at LA through my high-rise office window, and feel equal, but no matter what I do, I can never rewrite the fact that my great-great-grandmother was a Puerto Rican slave raped by a white man. It was this intergenerational wound that finally became intolerable to the Christians of the 19th century. Only with the rise of a bourgeois nuclear family ideal in the industrialized world could people compute that a system designed to buy children and separate them from their kin can only be wrong. If you learn nothing else from reading the vast library of slave narratives, you must learn that. Or else, write to your graduate program and tell them you are going to return your PhD….”

“…..Eventually, gender joined race and class to form the triumvirate of the left’s social critiques. All three of these categories reflected the needs of large groups of people who had clear grievances, people who had suffered widespread institutionalized violence, confinement, and deprivation that were irrefutable in the annals of history. Had this triangle of causes remained sacrosanct, there is no way surrogacy would have led the left back to human bondage.

But then came gay men. Somehow “sexual orientation” was jimmied into the triangle of race, class, and gender. Homosexuals were deemed an oppressed people despite the flimsiest of historical grievances.
Gay men were teased about their sexual tastes and had to face anti-sodomy laws, which made it hard for them to find erotic release. They had the option of lying to protect themselves. Living a lie is hard, but living a lie when you enjoy all the economic, racial, and patriarchal advantages of having to worry only about your sex life is hardly on the scale of Jim Crow, women not having the right to vote, or poor people starving during times of famine or unemployment. There is an enormous difference between systematic, large-scale persecution and simply facing barriers to sexual pleasure….”

The gays won’t be listened to for much longer. 😎
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March 13, 2014 8:19am
tvb

Yes I think Judith Collins may have damaged any long term Leadership prospects. I never felt they were all that great because of her personality deficiencies. Now she will be seen as a bit shifty and lacks the easy going manner needed to get away with it.
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March 13, 2014 8:20am
Elaycee

@’Harriet’ – Have you been forgetting to use sunscreen and wear a hat?

The Queensland sun seems to have fried your brain. 😯
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March 13, 2014 8:21am
igm

See another teachers’ union member has been committing indecencies on youngsters with protection from detection . . . bet this won’t happen in Charter Schools.
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March 13, 2014 8:22am
Ross12

Don’t worry igm @ 8.08am–this Collins issue will be next weeks “fish & chip” news as we used to say. It is a long time since I have seen something blown so far out of proportion as this.

But Labour are so bereft of ideas they have to try something to divert away from Cunliffe’s bumbling, Robertson’s non existence in the media the fact that people like Trotter have given up before the year has really started.
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March 13, 2014 8:29am
Keeping Stock

@ tvb – I agree wholeheartedly. Judith Collins’ political radar went haywire, and even though everything may in fact be above board, she has given the Opposition a sniff of scandal. The whole issue should have been shut down immediately, and had Collins made a full Cabinet disclosure at the time, it wouldn’t even be an issue.

That said, Winston Peters’ mocking of her husband’s name yesterday was blatant racism, and he should be absolutely slammed for it.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/key-puts-collins-on-notice.html
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March 13, 2014 8:31am
Bill

Judith Collins is a member of the Fulbright New Zealand Alumni Association according to her Beehive Bio.

The Fullbright.org.nz website does not list her as a “Grantee” or “Alumni”.
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March 13, 2014 8:34am
WineOh

Harriet, your anti-gay agenda belongs in a shameful dark age of the past.

Gays have had to endure very deliberate persecution in the past… and in the case of some backwards communities still do. Witness Russia and Nigeria and virtually the entire middle east at the moment. Its not about barriers to sexual release, that is a terrible way of triviliasing the issues … its about a basic acceptance of who they are.
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March 13, 2014 8:40am
Bovver

Winston First reminds me of Sir Robert Muldoon’s quote on becoming a back bencher after losing the 84 election ‘I’m not going to be a thorn in the side of Government, just a small prick’ (or words to that effect)
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March 13, 2014 8:40am
Pete George

The Judith Collins mess along with David Cunliffe’s “week from hell” highlight The importance of transparency.

Being up front and honest avoids one of the worst of political faux pas, being found to stuff up the reaction to an issue.
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March 13, 2014 8:43am
griffith

Far better to do it the catholic sanctioned way harry.
Like happened here
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sidonie-sawyer/-the-true-scandal-of-the-_b_4509415.html

Locked away with no identities, no visits, no human rights, the women were treated as criminals without any trials and no judgments. They had to scrub prison floors, cook for the nuns, take care of aging prisoners and other tasks nobody wanted to do. They all lost their children to adoptive families chosen by the nuns.

From 1765 to the late 1990, about 30,000 women were incarcerated and deprived of normal lives for a youth mischief that their own church was not able to forgive. Supported by the State and the Church, the goal of theses institutions was to rehabilitate “fallen” women into society, but in reality, their return to freedom was seldom a fact.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/two-magdalene-orders-reaffirm-compo-refusal-261358.html
says it all.
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March 13, 2014 8:44am
calendar girl

Funny how retail petrol prices remain stubbornly high at the pumps. Today the price of crude oil has gone down over 2% in US$ terms, while the NZ$ has appreciated around 4% against the US$ over the last month.

It will be interesting, again, to see how long it takes for local consumers to see the benefits of such changes flow through into retail prices – as opposed to when cost factors head the other way. There is an oligopoly in this critical sector of the NZ economy that – in my view – is long overdue for a searching, public inquiry by the Commerce Commission.
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March 13, 2014 8:44am
kowtow

Problem is now law enforcement will take into account your sexuality when they consider charges.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2579192/Gay-theatre-student-claimed-beaten-homophobic-thugs-admits-got-injuries-fell-WONT-face-action-wasting-police-time.html
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March 13, 2014 8:47am
Bovver

I agree Calendar girl, I was in Brisbane last month, the NZD was 96 cents on the cross rate, yet petrol was only $1.60 litre, the difference can’t only be because of the different taxation rates for petrol?
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March 13, 2014 8:50am
Harriet

WineOh#

“….Its not about barriers to sexual release, that is a terrible way of triviliasing the issues … its about a basic acceptance of who they are…..”

You mean a basic acceptance of ‘who’ babies are – or just gay babies? – We do have both sorts don’t we?

Hetrosexual babies have natural rights to a biological upbringing.

A person should be deemed harmed if they were contractually denied being raised by their biological parent(s). They should have legal claims against those who sold and received them.
The adoption process should remain as a form of welfare, but while still at least recognising that a person has a right to be raised by a man and woman, not two men or two women, or one of each.

If it were me, a hetrosexual, I would want to be able to sue an adoption agency that gave me to anything but a healthy heterosexual couple.
Individuals should start seeking legal opinion against their parents, adoption agencies, and government, for breaching their rights to a biological upbringing.
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March 13, 2014 8:56am
Ed Snack

Bovver, but it is, mostly. There are also independent chains in NZ who import petrol directly rather than get it refined in NZ, so there is plenty of competition. Trouble is, they’re all selling the same stuff with essentially zero distinguishing features, and in such a market prices normally move pretty much together. There’s little brand loyalty except through specific discount schemes, so why reduce your margin for a small initial gain that will disappear when the others match your price. Your are then in the same competitive position but at a lower profitability level. It doesn’t take conspiracy, just normal rational market actors.
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March 13, 2014 8:58am
WineOh

@ Harriet
“If it were me, a hetrosexual, I would want to be able to sue an adoption agency that gave me to anything but a healthy heterosexual couple.”

Your prejudice assumes that gay parents are worse at raising a child than straight parents. The statistics actually support the opposite of this. Why should a child have the right to “sue” for any particular type of parent. What about suing for having poor parents. Or parents that divorce. Or have an illness. Follow your arguments back to their logical conclusions.

Incidentally, I have both gay friends and family members (both female couples) who are raising children – their biological mother and their partners. They are terrific parents.
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March 13, 2014 9:06am
Bovver

Thanks for that explanation Ed, and I do see that the tax component of petrol in Australia is roughly half that of NZ’s.
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March 13, 2014 9:09am
Ed Snack

MH 370 update for anyone interested. Only real possible news is that China has announced that it is to investigate three large items spotted via satellite scans (from possibly as early as 9 March) in the South China Sea. These items are quite large at around10-20 metres across (which seems large for aircraft remains) and are within a reasonable distance of each other. Location is off the track a little but not too far, sort of SE to ESE from the southern tip of Vietnam. No word on when they’ll get there, of course the items may well have vanished by the time anyone arrives at the location as it is some days after they were seen.

Malaysian information release continues to be confused, a possible radar sighting mentioned last night at 200 miles NW of Penang may be a red herring. That’s not far off Phuket and definitely in Thai airspace, thee was a Singapore Airways jet very close to that location at that time, and the location is possible for MH 370 but not by much. The search has extended further into the Andaman Sea, closer to Indian airspace that should have been monitored from the Andaman Islands where there is a definite Indian military presence.

Note also that apparently Vietnamese military radar is supposed to cover the entire Gulf of Thailand up to the Malaysian Coast; MH 370 is supposed to have been well off the coast when last seen via its transponder, I wonder if the Vietnamese military records show the track, in theory they should. But maybe they’re like the Malaysians and there’s no live coverage or perhaps no decent recording of radar logs.

So little new. It was a pretty hostile press conference with the Malaysians pretty defensive. It did seem according to at least one reporter that some of the politicians involved had just received a heavy dose of media training and they stuck to their rehearsed lines rather more efficiently.

Biggest query, if the aircraft did disintegrate in midair, should there be a detectable debris field, and is it possible for there not to be one ? The South China Sea seems pretty well full of junk and fuel spills, but if a debris field is expected and hasn’t been seen via search and retrospective satellite viewing, then most likely it didn’t go down immediately.

For those who want to follow this themselves, the Grauniad has a good live blog, Plane Talking on Crikey is good, Pprune is a pilots chat site, and the Aviation Herald is another source. All are easily found via Google.
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March 13, 2014 9:15am
Ed Snack

Wine oh, anecdotes are not data. You have a carefully selected item of data that cannot be considered representative.
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March 13, 2014 9:18am
Harriet

“….Your prejudice assumes that gay parents are worse at raising a child than straight parents….Follow your arguments back to their logical conclusions……..”

You assume it.

I said that hetrosexual babies have a right to a biological upbringing. If adopted, that right remains. If gays have rights based upon ‘how they are born’ then it is [logical conclusion] hetrosexuals have those same rights too. 😎

Gays can’t have it both ways WineOh. 😎
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March 13, 2014 9:21am
kowtow

Ed
RadioAotearoa formerlty New Zealand reported a NZer on an oil rig said he saw a fireball or somesuch. In the S China sea.Somewhere off Vietnam.

I reckon with all the fishing boats, military etc in that area someone must know something.

Also if true it means the Malay military radar and all that stuff about the turn is bollox. But then I wouldn’t expect much less of them.
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March 13, 2014 9:22am
ShawnLH

“Your prejudice assumes that gay parents are worse at raising a child than straight parents. The statistics actually support the opposite of this. ”

Would love to see those. I doubt they exist.
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March 13, 2014 9:26am
ShawnLH

“I said that hetrosexual babies have a right to a biological upbringing.”

Huh????

I’m not sure I understand what that sentence means. And what on earth Harriet is a “heterosexual” baby?

Fixed sexual orientation is a theory, and not a particularly good one.
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March 13, 2014 9:27am
ShawnLH

“Incidentally, I have both gay friends and family members (both female couples) who are raising children – their biological mother and their partners. They are terrific parents.”

I personally think there are serious issues with children being raised without both a mum and a dad, but that would apply to other less than ideal situations as well.

In fact, the most up to date information we have is that psychologically, children need one of both genders.

But reality is messy so….
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March 13, 2014 9:33am
dirty harry

Gays cant have it both ways. If you choose faggery you give up the right to have children.
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March 13, 2014 9:36am
dime

Ed – cheers for the updates!
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March 13, 2014 9:37am
ShawnLH

“Gays cant have it both ways. If you choose faggery you give up the right to have children.”

I’m a conservative Christian, and I happily affirm that the above statement is just plain dumb.
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March 13, 2014 9:40am
griffith

Harry it is 75 kids a year.
The way it works now the mother is involved in the process.
If She/He/harry It has a preference for a gay couple.
Not Our business.
http://adoptionoption.org.nz/adoption/new-zealand-adoption-prof/
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March 13, 2014 9:40am
Harriet

“………….“I said that hetrosexual babies have a right to a biological upbringing.”
I’m not sure I understand what that sentence means…………..”

I should have placed the word hetrosexual in.[ a hetrosexual biological upbringing]. My mistake.

All this is over the fact that gays have rights based upon their sexuality – and hetrosexuals do too. So hetrosexual babies do have the right to a – hetrosexual upbringing.

The problem with the gay arguement is that they think that the rights of babies is different to the rights of adults – where cars and guns are concerned that’s reasonable – but babies arn’t cars and guns.
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March 13, 2014 9:43am
Ross12

Ed
You are obviously following the lost plane news closely. A couple of days ago I read somewhere on the Net ( sorry I’ve forgotten the source) that some Chinese people with relations/friends on board had tried ringing them on cell phones and got a “live” phone response but no answer. This was a day or so after the plane was lost. Have you read anything similar ? It all seemed abit strange to me but then everything about this incident is strange.
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March 13, 2014 9:45am
ShawnLH

Then in that case Harriet I would have to disagree. Such a right cannot be established without violating the non-aggression principle.
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March 13, 2014 9:45am
Ed Snack

Kowtow, yes, saw that. It’s another possibility, the Vietnamese were supposed to be responding with a surface search. However the directions are a little odd, the distances pretty extreme for any ID of an aircraft. Could well have been a meteor, but any clue is worth investigating. It could tie with the new pieces of whatever that the Chinese say they’ve seen. A big enough fire though *should* have been seen from monitoring satellites at the time! and that footage has been reviewed. May not of course been big enough for that.

Thee can’t be a particularly obvious debris field though, and not sure why not. Maybe SCS is too dotted with junk to make it easy. AF 447 did get found from debris in a week, and that was in 12,000 ft of water.
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March 13, 2014 9:47am
igm

Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, not genetic. If people wish to live this way then they should be prepared to make sacrifices . . . not at the expense of hetrosexuals.
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March 13, 2014 9:48am
griffith

Cyclone Lusi is expected to move out of the tropics Friday or Saturday.
Current forecasts track Lusi just west of the North Island on Saturday
then across the upper South Island on Sunday, before moving away to the
east on Monday..
http://www.met.gov.fj/aifs_prods/65661.html

The chance of significant storm surge. flooding and gale force winds remains high for the weekend.
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March 13, 2014 9:52am
ShawnLH

If we, meaning Christians, want to convince other’s of the rightness of Godly living, then the only way Christ gave us to do that is by gentle persuasion and by living in such a way as to be an example to others. Christ never said anything about getting the State to force our views upon other people, and whenever the Church has gone down that path, to that degree it has abandoned the Gospel, with terrible results. Christ said “Do not lord it over others as the Pagans do” (referring to Caesar).
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March 13, 2014 9:55am
Judith

@ igm (650 comments) says:
March 13th, 2014 at 9:48 am

Actually, your statement is not completely true. There are some forms of homosexuality where imbalances in hormones etc which mean that although the person has the genitalia of a male, they are also driven by feminine tendencies.

As the human species has become a more socially constructed being, you also need to take into account the effects of that socialization on some individuals who are no longer driven by purely biological aspects of their being.

You also need to account for why homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom before you can get away with ‘it is a lifestyle choice’ argument. Unless you are suggesting that animals make lifestyle choices?
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March 13, 2014 9:56am
Harriet

“…..The way it works now the mother is involved in the process….”

It’s irrelevant.

The child grows while being denied of their own origins and has to live with the scars of having been torn from their own kin.

It’s not about the ‘desires’ of ‘adults’ Griff but about the ‘needs’ of children WHILE growing.

Anyway Griff, hope all’s well. Cheers.
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March 13, 2014 9:56am
Manolo

A pair of disgraceful thieves: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11218603

A principal and her husband siphoned off more than $30,000 from a decile one school in South Auckland and splashed out on themselves. Rather than the money going towards pupil education at Mayfield Primary School in Otara, Colleen Margaret Gray, 66, and Bruce Kenneth Gray, 65, jetted to Australia and to London.

Colleen Gray also used the school credit card for food at Mecca at Mission Bay and Francoli Bar and Restaurant in Ellerslie.
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March 13, 2014 9:57am
Judith

@ griffith (55 comments) says:
March 13th, 2014 at 9:52 am

Griffith I’ve been busy and haven’t caught up with the news, has the storm lessened in intensity as predicted?
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March 13, 2014 9:57am
Judith

@ Manolo (12,384 comments) says:
March 13th, 2014 at 9:57 am

And what’s the bet they will get community service and be unable to pay reparation.

What a disgraceful example to the children of the school they are associated with.
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March 13, 2014 9:59am
Manolo

The beastly Kuka to stay behind bars: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11218823

The mother of tortured Rotorua three-year-old Nia Glassie has had her parole revoked by the Parole Board.
Lisa Michelle Kuka was granted parole last month because the board said she no longer posed an undue risk to the community.

She was due to be released on April 7.
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March 13, 2014 9:59am
Judith

@ Manolo (12,385 comments) says:
March 13th, 2014 at 9:59 am

That is not the least bit surprising. She is not only a ‘piece of work’ but a master manipulator. Hopefully the parole board has finally realised this.
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March 13, 2014 10:01am
Manolo

The Luddites are as nutty as you can get. As if money grew on trees:

The Greens want to build up to $200 million in cycle lanes and walkways around schools if they are in government, and funding would be redirected from “low-value” projects such as the Holiday Highway north of Auckland.

The Green Party revealed in a policy paper published this morning that it hoped to reverse this trend by investing $50 million a year over four years into infrastructure such as cycleways. If it was successful, the policy would reduce congestion, carbon emissions and child obesity rates.
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March 13, 2014 10:02am
ShawnLH

“Colleen Gray also used the school credit card for food at Mecca at Mission Bay and Francoli Bar and Restaurant in Ellerslie.”

Er… she did not stop to think that when you use a credit card it leaves a permanent record? And this person was in charge of a school???
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March 13, 2014 10:03am
Harriet

“…..then the only way Christ gave us to do that is by gentle persuasion and by living in such a way as to be an example to others….”

True – but by seperating the sin from the sinner. Hate the sin and love the sinner.

Jesus was very angry when he spoke of sin, and we must also be angry of sin. But we must also be compassionate towards the sinner. The problem is that the ‘sinners’ conflate the two at their conveniance. Cry ‘sin’ and they cry ‘offended’. When I’m questioned from a Christian perspective about what I say, I just repeat the seperation – but most here know that so I seldom have to.
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March 13, 2014 10:05am
Judith

@ tvb (3,875 comments) says:
March 13th, 2014 at 8:20 am

Yes, yet another good reason not to vote for John Key. Crusher could do a ‘Jenny Shipley’ and we could end up with her in the top seat.
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March 13, 2014 10:06am
ShawnLH

I understand what you mean Harriet, but I wonder if part of the negative reaction is that some Christians spend far too much time hating other peoples sins, instead of their own. “Remove the forest from your own eye before worrying about the speck in your brothers.”
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March 13, 2014 10:08am
griffith

Most of the argument you spout is irrelevant harry. 😆 You may get a vote off for this mornings homophobic rant
Still if no one stirs the pot…..

ps the old man is off meds for type 2 diabetes and his leg ulcer and swelling is now 95 resolved. The old dude is showing a lot more interest in the world as well. It’s all about standard of living and small gains.
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March 13, 2014 10:08am
Judith

@ Manolo (12,386 comments) says:
March 13th, 2014 at 10:02 am

Well they do claim to be more in touch with ‘mother nature’ than the rest of us, perhaps they have worked out how to grow money on trees – when you know you will never be the governing party, you can make any promise you like.
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March 13, 2014 10:08am
ShawnLH

“women not having the right to vote”

Giving women the right to vote was a mistake. Giving men the right to vote was also a mistake. 🙂
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March 13, 2014 10:11am
Harriet

“……You also need to account for why homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom before you can get away with ‘it is a lifestyle choice’ argument. Unless you are suggesting that animals make lifestyle choices?…’

Judith – there is nothing to understand about homosexuality in animals – it’s base animal behaviour.

There really is no gay animals, as animals ‘actually seen by humans’ to be gay – end up being bi when they are placed soley with female animals. We are talking cows and horses ect – not the sea creatures where the male is the one who gets pregnant – as that proves nothing about ‘real gay behaviours’.

They’re animals Judith – if it fits – it fits.
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March 13, 2014 10:14am
Harriet

LOL Shawn 😎
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March 13, 2014 10:16am
Manolo

Honesty and transparency according to the Kenyan’s administration: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/world/americas/wanted-by-ecuador-2-brothers-make-mark-in-us-campaigns.html?hp&_r=2#story-continues-1
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March 13, 2014 10:19am
Judith

@ harriet

I’m sorry, but I am of the belief that we are ‘all animals’ to.

Just read the newspapers, there is plenty of evidence that supports my assertions.

However, I respect your beliefs, they were the same held by my parents. I just don’t agree with them, so I guess one day who is right will be obvious. If you are right, you will get to think ‘I told her so, as I burn in hell’ and if I am right, neither of us will know, because death is the final act of life in my opinion. Either way I still think you’re an ok guy Harry! 🙂
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March 13, 2014 10:20am
Judith

@ ShawnLH (320 comments) says:
March 13th, 2014 at 10:11 am

I totally agree, and one day when I am dictator, I will make sure the right is removed, and it is never granted again! 🙂
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March 13, 2014 10:24am
griffith

We are animals harry

If it fits …

which it does

It fits !

😯
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March 13, 2014 10:25am
ShawnLH

“Yes, yet another good reason not to vote for John Key. Crusher could do a ‘Jenny Shipley’ and we could end up with her in the top seat.”

I think that’s unlikely. Bolger was pretty unpopular at the time, and Shiply had the numbers. I can’t see that happening with Key. Unlike Bolger Key’s political instincts and his ability to keep most of the public onside are pretty sharp.
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March 13, 2014 10:28am
ShawnLH

“I totally agree, and one day when I am dictator, I will make sure the right is removed, and it is never granted again!”

In that case I will vote for you Judith! 🙂

Oh…wait a minute…
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March 13, 2014 10:38am
Ed Snack

Just FYI on MH370. Much has been made of an FAA directive issued in June 2013 requiring repairs to satellite antenna housings on B777 aircraft. The MAS representative at last nights press conference was unable to say if MH 370 had been repaired following this directive. However new information from Boeing just released says that not all B777-200ER models had this antenna housing, and specifically that this particular aircraft did not. Thus it cannot be invoked as a possible cause.

That doesn’t rule out explosive decompression or some other decompression event, however it cannot be related to a non-existent antenna housing. A separate suggestion is the explosion of a crew oxygen bottle leading to either a fire or the disabling of electrical equipment from a rocket effect of a fractured bottle. The rocket effect was seen on a Qantas flight several years ago and can be very destructive. This would also lead to the absence of emergency oxygen in the cockpit as well causing rapid anoxia. But it would most probably lead to rapid deterioration of the aircraft’s ability to fly.

Reviewed the NZ Oil Rig workers sighting and it doesn’t match very well with the Chinese debris, but could be related if the aircraft flew/glided for some distance while turning somewhat to the right. Chinese debris for those interested is/was at “+6° 42′ 0″,+105° 37′ 47.9994” (this works in Google maps, not sure about anything immediately up to date though). Original picture from 9 March, detected on 10th. China showing off its technical superiority. Wonder if the US had “birds” photographing the area ?

Still clutching at straws and nothing really positive.
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March 13, 2014 10:46am
griffith

Key has indicated politics is not part of his envisioned future.
National needs an orderly and managed transition to his successor.
Probably during the coming cycle.
To start the debate before Key serves notice has no useful purpose for any of the present candidates .
Far better solidarity behind Das Leader till seconds after the election is counted.
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March 13, 2014 10:48am
Jack5

Is anyone on the General Debate thread today able to elaborate on two comments made in the Kiwiblog thread yesterday, Key on Flag.

It seemed to indicate that some of our posters are young people who have changed gender, and that other posters pick on them on Kiwiblog.

I don’t want to scrap verbally with such young people if they are in internal turmoil. So can anyone throw further light on Dime and Gump’s assertions please?

Dime posted 8.18 last night:

Long knives – you know kiwiblog is where all the tranny kids hang out, please don’t bully them.

and Gump responded at 11.10, recounting experience of a teenager who transformed from male to female committed suicide, and added:

It really gives me the shits that people here are prepared to pick on transgender kids. Because they really don’t choose to be the way they are.

If you are reading this Dime or Gump, please elaborate.
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March 13, 2014 10:48am
Fletch

Far better to do it the catholic sanctioned way harry.
Like happened here

Nope. Propaganda alert.

The publication last week of the Irish government’s McAleese Report on the Magdalene laundries has proved kind of awkward for Catholic-bashers. For if McAleese’s thorough, 1,000-page study is to be believed, then it would appear that those laundries were not as evil and foul as they had been depicted over the past decade. Specifically the image of the laundries promoted by the popular, much-lauded film The Magdalene Sisters – which showed them as places where women were stripped, slapped, sexually abused and more – has been called into question by McAleese.

This has led even The Irish Times, which never turns down an opportunity to wring its hands over Catholic wickedness, to say: “There is no escaping the fact that the [McAleese] report jars with popular perceptions.”

In the Irish mind, and in the minds of everyone else who has seen or read one of the many films, plays and books about the Magdalene laundries, these were horrific institutions brimming with violence and overseen by sadistic, pervy nuns. Yet the McAleese Report found not a single incident of sexual abuse by a nun in a Magdalene laundry. Not one. Also, the vast majority of its interviewees said they were never physically punished in the laundries.

As one woman said, “It has shocked me to read in papers that we were beat and our heads shaved and that we were badly treated by the nuns… I was not touched by any nun and I never saw anyone touched.” The small number of cases of corporal punishment reported to McAleese consisted of the kind of thing that happened in many normal schools in the 1960s, 70s and 80s: being caned on the legs or rapped on the knuckles. The authors of the McAleese Report, having like the rest of us imbibed the popular image of the Magdalene laundries as nun-run concentration camps, seem to have been taken aback by “the number of women who spoke positively about the nuns”.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100202781/catholic-bashers-have-embellished-the-truth-about-abuse-in-catholic-institutions-its-time-to-put-the-record-straight/
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March 13, 2014 10:51am
publicwatchdog

FYI Kiwibloggers 🙂

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/bridges-edges-collins-favourite-replace-key-ck-153133%20%20.

My comment – yet to be printed….
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

What Minister of Justice – Judith Collins did – was not a ‘perceived conflict of interest’ – it was a REAL conflict of interest.

In my considered opinion, as an anti-corruption campaigner, who has now attended three international anti-corruption conferences, listened to the experts, met the experts, studied the literature, and applied what I know to the New Zealand situation, I am sad to say that New Zealand is rotten with corruption, particularly at the highest levels.

If ‘all power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely’ – then God help us if Judith Collins ever became Prime Minister!

The opportunities for ‘insider trading’ , for misuse of public office for private pecuniary gain, would be potentially enormous………..

In my considered opinion, it is not ‘CRUSHER Collins, or CONNIVING Collins – it is CORRUPT Collins – end of story.

If Prime Minister John Key does not sack her forthwith – from Parliament, never mind Cabinet, then, in my considered opinion, he too is guilty of a corrupt cover-up, and he too, is NOT ‘fit for duty’.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright

‘Anti-corruption Public Watchdog’
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March 13, 2014 10:55am
Fletch

As far as same-sex adoption, back in 2005 the Spanish did a meta-study of all the reports and found that many of them were highly biased and that there is ample evidence that same-sex adoption is not in the best interests of children.

MADRID, Spain (LifeSiteNews.com) – In light of a pending vote in the Spanish Senate on same-sex marriage HazteOir, together with the Spanish Forum for the Family and the Institute for Family Policy, has published and distributed an in-depth report on the effects that being raised by same-sex parents has on a child. The report, entitled “Report on Infantile Development in Same-Sex Couples” and available only in Spanish at this time, gathers and compares information from a vast number of studies carried out on the issue.

HazteOir, concerned by the apparent unquestioning acceptance in Spain of homosexual adoption, hopes that the wide array of information provided in the report and its extensive bibliography will prove to the Senate that homosexual parentage is harmful for children.

The president of HazteOir stated, in light of the findings of the report: “In no way can a couple of persons of the same sex be judged suitable for adopting a child. Considering the findings of this vast bibliography we are obliged to protect the minor and say that same-sex couples must not be allowed to adopt children.”

The report contests that the majority of the studies carried out which have concluded in favour of same-sex parenthood betray an egregious lack of scientific rigour. Most of the studies show a strong bias to one side.

To prove this the report analyzes the nature of the individuals who have been responsible for the various studies carried out thus far, demonstrating that the vast majority are either homosexuals themselves, or active in the gay-rights movement. Into this category fall all six of the six most prominent psychologists of the American Psychological Association, which, unsurprisingly is one of the organizations most strongly and vocally in favour of homosexual adoption.

In compiling and comparing the available data from these studies, as well as more objective studies, the team of first-class psychologists and sociologists which penned the HazteOir report have noted prominent and disturbing trends.

Among children raised by same-sex couples, the report notes a significant increase in low self-esteem, stress, confusion regarding sexual identity, an increase in mental illness, drug use, promiscuity, STD’s, and homosexual behaviour, amongst others. Furthermore, the report shows that statistics have brought to light the fact that same-sex relationships betray a much higher instance of separation and break-up than heterosexual relationships, increasing the likelihood that the child will experience familial instability.

The Spanish Association of Pediatrics firmly backs up the findings of the report, stating that a “family nucleus with two fathers or two mothers is clearly dangerous for the child”.
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March 13, 2014 10:56am
Ed Snack

Fletch, but those films, they were like, should have been true ! Full on truthiness, and the propaganda battle is already won as most people’s perception is set by the popular film. Not unlike the film “Wall St” that so many seem to believe was a documentary.
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March 13, 2014 10:58am
ShawnLH

I’m not surprised at that report Fletch. Some terrible things were and have been done by Church authorities, but a great deal of propaganda has also been aimed at the RC and people in religious orders that does not correspond to reality.

And let’s not forget that the very Liberal-Left BBC has a wee bit of a problem with regards to child abuse as well.
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March 13, 2014 11:01am
ShawnLH

Hi Penny! 🙂

Paid your rates yet?
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March 13, 2014 11:02am
griffith

Justify a life time of imprisonment with no right to review, release ,representation or recompense under the grounds of “we only beat them gently” when forcing them to slave 12 hour days for the church’s benefit.

Filth.
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March 13, 2014 11:05am
Fletch

An interesting way of looking at World War I – as a bar fight.

http://themetapicture.com/if-wwi-was-a-bar-fight/

From what I read elsewhere, I believe a teacher made it.
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March 13, 2014 11:09am
griffith

There was an old lady who lived in a house.
oops
There was an old lady who lived alone in a tent at the local park.
Dont worry Penny Tarnish.
There is still the offer from JohnBoy.
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March 13, 2014 11:10am
mikenmild

For Fletch on same sex parents:
http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/are-same-sex-couples-better-parents/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
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March 13, 2014 11:23am
dirty harry

change the record penny..its getting boring ( you sexy thing you )
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March 13, 2014 11:32am
dime

“The Greens want to build up to $200 million in cycle lanes and walkways around schools if they are in government, and funding would be redirected from “low-value” projects such as the Holiday Highway north of Auckland.”

Excuse my language.. but what a bunch of cocksmokers.

No vision at all.

Just blind hatred of cars (crown limos are OK though).

We should be doing whatever we can to improve connections between auckland and whangarei
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March 13, 2014 11:32am
jonnobanks

I imagine Harriet spends half his time looking up anti gay websites and the rest of his time mastabating over gay porn. Some weird guilt behaviour, methinks.
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March 13, 2014 11:37am
dirty harry

Looks like they may have found it…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/9823470/China-finds-suspected-crash-site-of-flight-MH370
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March 13, 2014 11:42am
Sofia

Pete George – Being up front and honest avoids one of the worst of political faux pas, being found to stuff up the reaction to an issue.

So John Key is disappointed with Collins for her being “cute” in answering journalists’ questions – guess he means “cute”, like his response a while back to the effect that “No”, he hadn’t read the Police Report on Banks. “No conviction entered so no wrong done, no problem.”

Key remains most popular Prime Minister ever.
Collins, suddenly, has no chance of ever attaining that?

Echoes of Phillip Field, protected by Clark until he hinted he may not always support her, so suddenly he was fucking toast.
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March 13, 2014 11:48am
Judith

@ Sofia (734 comments) says:
March 13th, 2014 at 11:48 am
Key remains most popular Prime Minister ever.

I’m sorry, but would you mind providing some empirical evidence to support this statement?
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March 13, 2014 11:52am
griffith

Wanna improve the connection between ak and whangs. 😉

Fix the fucking intersection.s at walk-through. Warkworth Now not 2021.

Get the cops to spend 1/10 of their time enforcing the fucking road code.
1 Keep left . This means keep as far left on the road as possible not sit on the middle line at seventy kmh on the open road.
2 It is an offence to obstruct traffic. This means if you are doing less than the speed limit help the cars behind pass if you fail to do this you should be targeted for a fine.

I am sick of the fucking idiots who have twenty cars closely stacked behind them as they negotiate slow corners at 70 who then speed up to 105 kph on passing lanes. Definitely these smegsuckers need to be disciplined for their totally Inconsiderate driving.
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March 13, 2014 11:54am
dirty harry

Of course Key is NZ’s most popular PM..have you been living in a bubble or something?

Where ever he goes he is mobbed and treated like a rock star. He has the common touch.

He will go down in history as the most popular PM ever.
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March 13, 2014 12:00pm
Judith

I am sick of the fucking idiots who have twenty cars closely stacked behind them as they negotiate slow corners at 70 who then speed up to 105 kph on passing lanes. Definitely these smegsuckers need to be disciplined for their totally Inconsiderate driving.

Amen to that – they are a nuisance and have the cheek to look ‘offended’ when one flicks them the birdie!
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March 13, 2014 12:00pm
dime

Jack5 – the thread was:

Longknives – “Not to mention the mandatory Transgender child…All frolicking under a huge rainbow..”

Gump (suspected tranny after this outburst) – “It’s bad enough that you post under a Nazi inspired nickname, but you just can’t yourself from bullying children on the Internet.

You’re disgusting.”

Dime “Longknives – you know kiwiblog is where all the tranny kids hang out, please don’t bully them.” – i was taking the piss.

I dont know any trannys on here.. maybe gump? maybe hes married to one? who knows. dont really care.

I think longknives was joking and referring to these kids that seem to pop up in the herald with their far left, fucked up parents “i want to be a girl” or whatever. most sane people i know think its nuts to let a 7 year old decide something like that and set them on a path to chopping off their dicks!
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March 13, 2014 12:03pm
stephieboy

Manolo, our resident black hater. ?

Honesty and transparency according to the GOP,

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/21/busted_former_gop_gov_bob_mcdonnell_indicted_for_corruption/

And there is much, much more including the most corrupt US Presidents Grant, Harding, Nixon and Reagan

http://www.theprogressiveprofessor.com/?p=22010
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March 13, 2014 12:04pm
Judith

@ dirty harry (153 comments) says:
March 13th, 2014 at 12:00 pm

The empirical evidence does not support you. The percentages that voted for his party at the last two elections have been superseded by others standing in previous elections – so he has a large group of emotionally challenged people who like to part-take in overt displays of affection – and you think that is evidence to say that he is the most popular PM ever?

I know a heap of people that hope he chokes on his next burger – so if I was as irresponsible as the previous poster, I could say he was the most hated PM ever. Keep it real aye?
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March 13, 2014 12:04pm
dirty harry

we shall see Judith..we shall see.
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March 13, 2014 12:11pm
dime

“Manolo, our resident black hater. ?”

Stephieboy, our resident freak who sees racism EVERYWHERE
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March 13, 2014 12:13pm
DJP6-25

Ooh…. look there’s Elvis! (Judith Collins)
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March 13, 2014 12:17pm
Rowan

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9823503/Woman-who-killed-husband-jailed-for-six-years
Inadequate sentance and incorrect verdict for Ms Scollay who stabbed her husband through the heart, how is that not clear intent to kill?
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March 13, 2014 12:28pm
David Garrett

“JUDITH”: From the safety of the shelter of your pseud please do tell us about “the beastly” Lisa Kuka, and give us some examples of her manipulation…If a pseud is good for anything it must be for this purpose..
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March 13, 2014 12:28pm
griffith

http://www.magdalenelaundries.com/jfm_comm_on_torture_210411.pdf
Direct from the real world not christian apologist blog.

1 Executive Summary
1.1 Ireland’s Magdalene Laundries
were residential, commercial and for-profit laundries
operated by four Irish orders of nuns i where between the foundation of the Irish Free
State in 1922 and 1996, when the last institution closed, a number of girls and
women, estimated in the tens of thousands,were imprisoned, forced to carry out
unpaid labour and subjected to severe psychological and physical maltreatment.
1.2 The women and girls who suffered in the Magdalene Laundries included those who
were perceived to be “promiscuous”, were unmarried mothers, were the daughters of
unmarried mothers, were considered a burden on their families or the State, had been
sexually abused, or had grown up in the care of the Church and State.
1.3 As evidenced in Part 5.3 below, the IrishState was complicit in the incarceration of women and girls in the Magdalene Laundries and dealt commercially with laundries without ever subjecting them to official regulation or
inspection. It is submitted in Part 5 that the Magdalene Laundries abuse meets the requirements for
the definition of torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment under Article 1 and
Article 16 CAT.

Griff has spent money insuring his camry bomb is as safe as possible for the driving he does.
He has upgraded tyres. +1″ diameter -5 profile ratio. + 20mm width, which makes his speedo 100% accurate., Suspension lowered 35mm legal max stiffer shocks .brakes slotted disks quality pads. lights +150% halogens all six front . Subtle but fun as I watch the audits freak and disappear in the mirror when they try to follow a camry wagon around a 55 bend at 110 and all their nanny lights go mad.
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March 13, 2014 12:31pm
Lucia Maria

Reid,

I had a look at that book you recommended yesterday by finding it in Amazon and reading the reviews before having a look at the book. It’s seems my opinion of it is the minority opinion of the negative reviewers. A minority because very few people outside of the conspiracy realm will be attracted to this book after reading the first few pages.

Skim reading the rest of the first chapter is even worse. I checked the reference that “proved” Britain’s ambassador to Russia was right in the thick of the plot to overthrow the Czar, one of the few proofs offered despite the many assertions given. It gives a quote from Lloyd George referencing a book by Léon Degrelle, an officer of the Waffen SS (a Nazi, basically) who isn’t German, but aligned himself with the Nazis. Like that’s a great source to base a whole premise on!

Seriously, this is the type of “history” you read? I asked you the questions I did because I needed some “anchor points” as to your level of historical knowledge and how influenced by propaganda you are. The thing is, if you are going to read alternative histories without much understanding of what actually happened with all the conspiracy stuff, then you’ll be sucked in.

To answer the first question I asked, the Soviet Union entered the war 2 weeks after the Germans invaded Poland, by “liberating” the other half. Kind of like they are “liberating” Crimea right now. No declaration of war – just subterfuge and propaganda. That’s how it’s related.
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March 13, 2014 12:31pm
Harriet

“……I think longknives was joking and referring to these kids that seem to pop up in the herald with their far left, fucked up parents “i want to be a girl” or whatever. most sane people i know think its nuts to let a 7 year old decide something like that and set them on a path to chopping off their dicks!….’

“…..set them on a path to chopping off their dicks….”

You nailed that Dime. It’s child abuse – and all of the government supports it! Fucken sad really.
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March 13, 2014 12:48pm
griffith

Judith is bound by professional ethics.
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March 13, 2014 12:54pm

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