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March 11, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 March 2014

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Ed Snack

Griffith, don’t talk rubbish; although DJP-6’s link is incorrect about the Tim Ball case and I would dismiss it.

Mann has not been investigated 8 times, he is apparently referring to investigations in the UK relating to UK institutions (at least one of which as a by-the-by severely criticized Mann’s work with regard to statistics) as well as others that didn’t investigate him at all.

He was, for example, investigated by a couple of Penn State investigations which were woefully inadequate. One was supposed to inquire as to whether Mann was involved in getting other researchers to delete emails and found that he wasn’t. That is despite the confirmed fact that Mann forwarded an email asking people to delete emails so they couldn’t be discovered by FOI requests to another researcher who has testified under oath that he did in fact subsequently delete all related emails ! So when’s there’s better than prima facie evidence, Penn State apparently simply asked Mann if he was complicit, and when he said no stopped looking. The evidence exists that he was at least tangentially involved (the other researcher was not on the original email distribution list so would not have been involved but for Mann) as a minimum, but the Penn State inquiry never actually made any investigations. You and Mann might call that cleared, I’d be thinking more of something like buckets of white-wash.
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March 11, 2014 3:18pm
stephieboy

Ed Snack, thanks for the info. TWA Flight 800 in 1997 disappeared in similar circumstances not long after takeoff .It blew up believed to be a faulty shorting electrical wire skirting an empty fuel tank.
TWA 800 attracted a lot speculation and conspiracy theories including been hit by a missile.
No doubt 370 will attract similar and maybe this time , say a South China seas Bermuda Triangle.?
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March 11, 2014 3:18pm
All_on_Red

DJP
Griff is right about the case being still on.Mind you it’s the only thing he’s right about.
“In a parallel Mann legal arena, Steve McIntyre now shows that in his legal reply to the NRO/Steyn lawsuit, Dr. Mann or his attorneys altered a quote from the Muir Russell inquiry that didn’t exist. Add this to the fake “Nobel Laureate” claim in Mann’s original lawsuit (a claim which he eventually removed in an amended complaint, on Facebook (before and after), and at RC without notice), and a pattern begins to emerge that might not be looked on too kindly by a presiding judge.

He writes:
In my most recent post, I showed that Mann’s claim to have been “exonerated” by the Oxburgh inquiry had no more validity than Mann’s claim to have won a Nobel prize. In today’s post, I’ll continue my series on the “investigations” by showing that Mann’s claim to have been “exonerated” by the Muir Russell inquiry is equally invalid.
In their memoranda supporting their original motions to dismiss, both National Review and CEI had observed (correctly) that the Muir Russell panel had limited their findings to “CRU scientists” and contested Mann’s assertion that the Muir Russell panel had made any findings regarding Mann himself, let alone “exonerated” him.”

There’s a lot more here pulling Manns FIVE claims to bits
http://climateaudit.org
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March 11, 2014 3:21pm
Ed Snack

All-on-Red, best site to go to, yes, just I thought mentioning Climateaudit to Griff would lead to blood-pressure issues…
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March 11, 2014 3:22pm
David Garrett

Stephie: TWA 800 was the one that went down off Long Island, New York, wasnt it? I remember the conjecture at the time…the conclusion IIRC after exhaustive enquiry was accident not sabotage…They say you are much safer in a plane though, than driving a car…
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March 11, 2014 3:29pm
stephieboy

DG, TWA 800 revisited critically evaluating a conspiracy based documentary about the flight,

http://www.askthepilot.com/twa-800-revisited/

Exploding fuel tanks though rare can and do happen.
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March 11, 2014 3:39pm
griffith

Eight investigation into aspects of the alleged wrong doing
and you still claim he is at fault. You are the ones talking rubbish.
It is a repetitive pointless attempts to smear one scientist . A great side show for you wingnuts but totally irrelevant to the conclusions of modern palentolgolcal climate research. The hockey stick is not only holding up to real scientific scrutiny it is being extended back in time . Same conclusion unprecedented warming due to mans influence. just another avenue of scientific enquiry the supports the theory co2 = warming= climate change.
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March 11, 2014 3:48pm
David Garrett

stephie: Thanks…conspiracies following planes vanishing without trace arent new of course…they are still debating what happened to Glenn Miller in 1944…

Off to the side…remember UA811, the jumbo that lost its forward cargo door – and nine passangers with it – in 1989? I missed that same flight by one day…That’s as close as I ever want to come..the fascinating thing is United Airlines programmed their simulator with the performance characteristics of a 747 with a fucking great hole in the side…no pilot who tried could do what the actual pilot did, and put it safely back on the ground in Honolulu…
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March 11, 2014 3:49pm
All_on_Red

Ah Griff, it’s the last bit of the totally discredited Hockey Stick which is the problem. That single tree in Yamal is quite famous now/ sarc

That aside- hope you are doing ok with your Dad.
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March 11, 2014 3:52pm
griffith

Can you read
The hocky stick circa 1998 is so last century. Mann is one of thousands of scientists involved in reconstructing the climate record . Since 1998 his reputation and respect in scientific circles has only increased. Only in the wingnuts alternative reality is there any question of his integrity. Always it becomes your fantastical conspiracy theory’s 😆 wing nuts I have missed the daily laughter at your collective blind stupidity
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March 11, 2014 4:01pm
UglyTruth

the conclusion IIRC after exhaustive enquiry was accident not sabotage

They switched to the “spark in the fuel tank” explanation after the stinger explanation was debunked. They had to start with the stinger explanation because there were too many witnesses who saw something like a bright flare go up and hit the plane.

Tests of seat fabric which has been stained with a red residue confirmed the presence of chemical residue from a military solid fuel rocket motor.
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March 11, 2014 4:07pm
David Garrett

On climate change…does Dunedin still use the slogan “Anxiously awaiting global warming”??
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March 11, 2014 4:08pm
David Garrett

UT: Your post is confusing…are you saying this enquiry you cite concluded it HAD been hit by a stinger missile or not? I do recall eyewitness testimony which suggested something “streaking up from the ground”…

But you are a registered conspiracy theorist arent you? The grassy knoll and everything else?
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March 11, 2014 4:12pm
Ed Snack

Arguing with a fantasist like Griff is a waste of time; just keep talking to yourself Griff, at least you’ll listen.
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March 11, 2014 4:16pm
kowtow

DG

Best bumper sticker I’ve seen down here (after the “If you’re against drilling get out of your car and walk”)is

Dunedin ,Riviera of the Antarctic.

true.
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March 11, 2014 4:20pm
griffith

climate audit
A member blog of the denial echo chamber alternative reality.
Stern has no legal representation. No lawyer will touch his case 😆
His last legal adviser was found to be a total fraud without qualification.
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March 11, 2014 4:31pm
wreck1080

CO2 causes warming.

This is undisputable science and it can be replicated in the lab.

Enough CO2 in our atmosphere will warm it up.

The question is the level of CO2 needed to cause warming on a global scale after braking effects are taken into account. eg, co2 causes increaes in plant production which absorbs more co2.

On a geological timeline of the earth, co2 levels correlate with sea level changes. Assuming they measure these things correctly.
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March 11, 2014 4:31pm
David Garrett

kowtow: Excellent! That’s better than Basil Fawlty claiming that Torquay was “the centre of the English Riviera”…I like the pro drilling one too…be fantastic news if they got a commercial field off the Otago coast…indigenous gas for the South Island…
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March 11, 2014 4:37pm
griffith

Why is the hocky stick significant ? The effect of known forcing like the suns orbit and output gives us an estimate for the future results of the forcing introduced by co2.
Paleo climate multi discipline studys examine the geological records of past climate changes and apply what they learn to the modern changing atmospheric parameters. The forcing inherent in the little ice age and the roman warm period are used to predict the forcing effect of rising co2. If these changes where as significant as the deniers like to claim it means estimates of future warming are too small. Logic fail / wingnut norm.
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March 11, 2014 4:48pm
David Garrett

If you had your own gas down there you have all you need to secede from NZ when the demands of the tangata whenua get too much…your iwi has just quietly got on with it and quadrupled their money…plus you outnumber them about 10-1…
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March 11, 2014 4:50pm
UglyTruth

UT: Your post is confusing…are you saying this enquiry you cite concluded it HAD been hit by a stinger missile or not?

It wasn’t an enquiry, it was the initial explanation which asserted that it was an act of terrorism by an unknown party. It was only after this explanation was debunked that the accidental explosion narrative was adopted.

I do recall eyewitness testimony which suggested something “streaking up from the ground”…

There was a lot of it.

http://www.angelfire.com/hi/TWA800/exhibit25a.html

But you are a registered conspiracy theorist arent you? The grassy knoll and everything else?

I try to find explanations that make sense. The MSM narrative doesn’t make sense with TWA800, just as it doesn’t with MH370, although IMO it is still too early to call foul for MH370.
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March 11, 2014 4:59pm
griffith

Good idea DG .
But Why gas? The mainland has most of the hydro electricity. Keep the borders closed to all you northerners and the south could have the worlds highest living standard again.
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March 11, 2014 5:03pm
David Garrett

UT: I’m sure the relevant authorities are very relieved you haven’t reached a firm conclusion about this latest disappearing aircraft…
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March 11, 2014 5:04pm
Don the Kiwi

Griff is right of course.

Climate Change – that is, warming – caused the Niagara Falls to freeze over, doncha know. 🙂
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March 11, 2014 5:19pm
griffith

Oh look the weather is cold on 2% of the earths surface that proves that the weather is cold “Duh” its called northern winter .

wingnuts and their ice cream forehead moments.

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/service/global/map-blended-mntp/201401.gif

pretty picture for screen lickers more red (hot) than blue (cold)=forth warmest january on record .
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March 11, 2014 5:30pm
David Garrett

Don: Yes…that of course is why “global warming” had to morph into “climate change”…because there wasn’t much warming..

You know what worries me far more than supposed anthropogenic climate change? The coming “post antibiotic age”…That is REALLY coming (due to poor prescribing practices and other things all over the world) and that is a damn sight more scary than climate change…a return to the days when you could die from a small cut which went septic, and if you get pneumonia it’s all over bar the shouting…
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March 11, 2014 5:32pm
griffith

Couldn’t help yourself DG and you tried so hard to ignore me. Out with another stupid wingnut talking point .

1988

International panel on Climate Change.

Global warming is the result of the energy imbalance created by adding a few million years worth of stored co2. Climate change is the changing climate patterns due to this warming . Both are undoubtably happening.
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March 11, 2014 5:56pm
David Garrett

If you think an age where antibiotics dont work any more is a “stupid talking point” then you really reveal yourself to be a moron…Frankly I don’t give a fuck about climate change…man will adapt….but I am shit scared of my children getting a chest infection or a septic cut and dying because antibiotics no longer work…
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March 11, 2014 6:07pm
chiz

Oh dear. It turns out the two passengers with fake passports on MH370 were Iranian. How long before the conspiracy theories start?
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March 11, 2014 6:31pm
Steve (North Shore)

Rates,
“Making all Aucklanders pay a council income tax may help elderly people in affluent areas who can’t afford their rates, mayor Len Brown says.

The current system is “inherently unfair” on people living on fixed incomes and paying high rates because of the value of their properties in areas like Devonport-Takapuna, Brown says.”

Maybe Penny thought she would suck on Aucklands’ tit once more to pay her bill.

Sorry Penny, Len’s bullshit does not make sense and neither does yours
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March 11, 2014 6:32pm
nasska

A sneak preview of a day in the life of an average NZ woman should the NZ Conservatives get to impose their crap on the electorate.

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6ftzrdfrw9t4wh/CCCP%202.jpg
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March 11, 2014 6:33pm
David Garrett

Nasska: And what pray is wrong with that scene of domestic bliss? Granted, the woman should be getting the husband a beer after his long day…but perhaps she is about to do so…She has her hands full right at the minute…
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March 11, 2014 6:57pm
Judith

@ David Garrett (4,907 comments) says:
March 11th, 2014 at 6:57 pm

You can’t see what’s wrong with it?

She clearly hasn’t taken up a part time job and purchased a flat screen TV for her husband and instead wasted money on toys for the kids.
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March 11, 2014 6:59pm
David Garrett

A joke Judith…and not a bad one to boot…
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March 11, 2014 7:05pm
DJP6-25

Bugger. It looks like it’s not case over for Dr Mann after all.
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March 11, 2014 7:13pm
dirty harry

A bit of vigilante justice is whats needed with the scum mongrel mob…pop a few off quietly.. no one would care, would be doing the country a favour.

Filthy low lifes.. lower than pond scum.
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March 11, 2014 7:20pm
nasska

Man: I’m a bit kinky. Was wondering what you could do for me?
Woman: Well it depends, what kind of kinky?
Man: I like to be totally dominated, degraded and humiliated
Woman: Yea, no problem. It will cost you $150
Man: Great, what do I get for that?
Woman: A Hurricanes jersey…
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March 11, 2014 8:00pm
RF

Life is good. My spies in the Labour hint on a head to head clash between jones and cunliffe. It’s going to be interesting as jones is more popular in the caucus.

The useless prick Mickey Savage has fallen from grace and scrambling to get back into favour with the silent t.

Labour are also in panic mode after being so confident of a November election

An’t life grand.
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March 11, 2014 8:19pm
Johnboy

“Nasska: And what pray is wrong with that scene of domestic bliss?”

Ahh.. She’s barefoot and possibly pregnant but not in the kitchen and hubby is starting to look pissed cause his dinner isn’t ready? 🙂
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March 11, 2014 8:19pm
Viking2

Treasury says budget deficit of NZ$1.063 bln in 7 mths to Jan was NZ$637 mln worse than forecast; sees underlying weakness in GST receipts

Treasury has reported the Government’s Operating Balance before Gains and Losses (OBEGAL) was a deficit of NZ$1.063 billion in the seven months to the end of January, which was NZ$637 million worse than forecast in the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU) in December.

Treasury said core tax revenues were NZ$892 million below forecast, but this was partly offset by core spending being NZ$138 million lower than forecast.

It said GST receipts were NZ$354 million lower than forecasts, with a third of that because of earthquake related refunds, which was likely to worsen further.
====================

For the November figures Treasury said there were timing issues. They said the same for December. But the third time even Treasury admits it doesn’t know why the books are even more in the red. Once looks like misfortune, twice looks like carelessness. Three times sounds like mismanagement,” Parker said.

“Either the much-hyped ‘rock star’ economy has already turned into a one-hit wonder or National isn’t as good at running the books as it claims to be,” he said.

“If the economy is recovering the tax take should be increasing and the deficit reducing. The opposite is happening. Serious questions need to be asked of National’s economic credibility.”

http://www.interest.co.nz/news/68899/treasury-says-budget-deficit-nz1063-bln-7-mths-jan-was-nz637-mln-worse-forecast-sees-unde

Please repeat again how well the economy is.
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March 11, 2014 8:34pm
David Garrett

Johnboy: quite so! and she’s also focusing on the brats and not HIM…nothing a lick of the razor strop wouldnt cure!! Remember them?
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March 11, 2014 9:00pm
Komata

nasska

Re: ‘Serious questions need to be asked of National’s economic credibility’.

I don’t thinks so. It’s not NATIONAL’S economic credibility that should be questioned, it’s the competence of the advisors in Treasury who, by their own admission, ‘…[Don’t] know why the books are even more in the red’. Any CEO is only as good as his advisors and since the PM cannot obviously check every minute detail about the economy (although he would no doubt be able to), he has no option but to rely on his advisors, in this case the ‘guru’s’ in Treasury. They are the ‘experts’ in the field, BUT they are, at best, only soothsayers, (‘guesser’s’ if you will), who can make ‘educated guesses’ but cannot say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY’, what will happen.

Because of this fact, your statement should really read ‘Serious questions need to be asked of TREASURY’S economic credibility’ (Credit where credit is due, and all that..).

BTW: A thought to consider: What would happen if, for idealogical reasons, the ‘experts’ in treasury were deliberately giving the PM incorrect information, before suddenly becoming all ‘sweetness and light’ with their forecasts when their favoured party came to power?

Human nature being what it is, the possibility is there (‘Yes Minister’ comes to mind).

As I said, just a thought…
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March 11, 2014 9:12pm
nasska

Komata

It was V2’s comment.
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March 11, 2014 9:23pm
cha

Some plane pron, B-52 Navigator and Bombardier downstairs in ejection seats that exit the aircraft through the bottom of the hull.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/252dc22fc1f4591d472da635cab1af04/tumblr_n1iwc3O2z21rm2152o1_1280.jpg

http://flying-fortress.tumblr.com/
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March 11, 2014 9:27pm
David Garrett

Fuck me…at least two morons think I am serious…
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March 11, 2014 10:05pm
Ed Snack

More on MH370, it seems quite likely that the Malaysians know more about the flight than they are willing to reveal yet. The search area to the west of the Malay peninsula must suggest that the aircraft took a 180 degree turn after it went off the radar; it’s probably military radar tracking that they have. And the earlier report of a debris field off Vietnam’s east coast seems to have been discounted, not aircraft remains. So what the hell has happened, and why out west, to lose the aircraft in deep water or something…?
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March 11, 2014 10:25pm
thedavincimode

“He” is wearing leotards.

Just sayin’ …
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March 11, 2014 10:35pm
srylands

The stock price of a Labour Election win is collapsing spectacularly on Ipredict.

PM.2014.LABOUR
Last Trade Price: $0.2689

https://www.ipredict.co.nz/app.php?do=contract_detail&contract=PM.2014.LABOUR
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March 11, 2014 10:54pm
Manolo

Unionists and untidy rednecks:
Teachers in West Virginia’s largest school district don’t want to be told they can’t show up for work in jeans and flip-flops.

The Kanawha County school district’s board of ed last week introduced a proposed dress code, which also bars facial piercings, and immediately got a dressing down from the teachers union. It’s not that the local teachers want to wear their weekend attire, they insist, it’s that codifying it so strictly is insulting.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/11/west-virginia-teachers-union-battles-proposed-ban-on-flip-flops-jeans-and-face/
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March 12, 2014 7:25am

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