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February 23, 2014 7:00am by David Farrar

A discussion on belief

A discussion between Bear Grylls and Stephen Fry on their beliefs, while enjoying the majesty of nature. really good.

Hat Tip: Whale

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CraigM

The one thing that did strike me about this….and atheist and a Christian freely discussing their opposing opinions without abusing each other.
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February 23, 2014 8:30am
Dean Papa

Yeah it was boring. A couple of lightweights. How cliched of Bear to claim he found God in the mountains. Why not in one of those those glitzy hotels he stays in between filming? Now if he had said he had found God why sucking the moisture out of Rhino poo then I might have believed him.
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February 23, 2014 8:41am
Longknives

I am a big fan of Stephen Fry but he is telling a few porkies here- Anyone who watches QI can tell you he often openly mocks religious people for their beliefs..
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February 23, 2014 9:13am
iMP

Here’s what Gene Simmons of KISS has to say to Russell Norman and his attack on people of faith…

http://www.faithit.com/religious-tolerance-christianity-tebow-simmons/
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February 23, 2014 9:16am
Ben Dover

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11287317@N04/8439480069/in/photostream/

The Barossa Bush Chapel
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February 23, 2014 9:51am
Ben Dover

It is pretty obvious that they is both a Covert and Open campaign throughout the Media that is
Anti – Christian

The Aim is to destroy christianity and all christians with it – one way or another
through whatever and any means they have at their disposal.

It is relentless.

Ironically the Anglican Christianity that NZ society is based on
is a logical reaction to protect christians.

That is why our Head of State
is also the Head of the British Army.

Many people over the centuries since ancient times
Have sort to Destroy Britain especially when it was
an outpost of Celtic Christianity.

That is what the Viking Wars were about
unfortunately for the people who instigated and planned those wars,
the Heathen were converted and used to protect Christians.

Because anyone who thinks raids on the early christians in Britain were Random is Clueless

And So instead of the Great Heathen Army… Now

We have the Great Heathen onslaught of the Media

and it continues

Day and Night until they hope to cloak the world in a

Brutal ignorant Darkness
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February 23, 2014 11:09am
wat dabney

Ben,

Perhaps you should learn a bit of British and European history?

The idea, for example, that the Vikings were waging a theological campaign is utterly risible.

What is true, however, is that, the British Isles were part of Europe’s murderous and fratricidal wars when, for hundreds of years of effective theocracy, Christians killed other Christians for being the wrong sort of Christian.

Indeed, in your very silly post, you specifically talk about “the Anglican Christianity that NZ society is based on.”

Fortunately, thanks to secularisation you no longer face torture and death at the hands of other “Christians” for your beliefs. And likewise, other “Christians” are safe from you Protestants.

All Western countries should have a National Secularism holiday, to recognise perhaps the greatest political development every made.
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February 23, 2014 11:37am
Aredhel777

Fortunately, thanks to secularisation you no longer face torture and death at the hands of other “Christians” for your beliefs. And likewise, other “Christians” are safe from you Protestants.

Actually, discrimination against Catholics in England came to an end in 1829, long before it started going secular in the late 19th century (but even as late as the 1950s Christianity had a profound impact on the culture.) See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Relief_Act_1829
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February 23, 2014 11:47am
big bruv

Ben Dover

“Brutal ignorant Darkness”

Wow!, even I might think twice about using a term like that to describe religion.
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February 23, 2014 11:54am
big bruv

“Anyone who watches QI can tell you he often openly mocks religious people for their beliefs..”

All the more reason to support Mr Fry I would have thought.
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February 23, 2014 11:55am
kowtow

Christianity is the foundation of our freedoms.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/books/9140402/inventing-the-individual-by-larry-siedentop/
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February 23, 2014 12:03pm
iMP

I like Stephen Fry’s humanity and honesty (when he’s not telling porkies) but his inner self loathing (he calls himself an utter c*nt), depression, vulnerability and low self esteem is exactly why he should explore C S Lewis and discover how christianity has served millions across the world over 2 millennia. He could learn a lot from Bear Grylls, Bob Dylan, Cliff Richard, the Celtic kings, the Irish monks, Charlemagne, and a gazillion others.

Even if you don’t believe in God, and hate christianity, the world you hold to is dark, desperately depraved and soulless by comparison.
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February 23, 2014 12:14pm
wat dabney

“Christianity is the foundation of our freedoms”

Hundreds of years of barbaric, murderous Christian religious wars.

Hundreds of years of murderous religious persecution of Christians by other Christians.

Hundreds of years of murderous religious persecution of Jews by Christians.

Hundreds of years of serfdom and brutal slavery practised by Christians (and not forgetting that slavery is explicitly sanctioned in the Bible.)
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February 23, 2014 12:19pm
nasska

Aredhel777

….”but even as late as the 1950s Christianity had a profound impact on the culture.”…..

I know! I was brought up during those wretched, Christianity saturated days & for that reason I feel eminently qualified to reject any attempts to change the secular society NZ has developed into.
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February 23, 2014 12:26pm
Aredhel777

I know! I was brought up during those wretched, Christianity saturated days & for that reason I feel eminently qualified to reject any attempts to change the secular society NZ has developed into.”

I am a child of the 1990s and feel eminently qualified to reject the post-Enlightenment, politically correct crap that has been forced down my throat every single year since I was five years old (i.e. the wonderful society that you and your ilk are responsible for inflicting on me and my generation.)
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February 23, 2014 12:43pm
Harriet

“…..All Western countries should have a National Secularism holiday, to recognise perhaps the greatest political development every made….”

LOL………..How would we celebrate that Watty – raise a flag or something? – sing a National Anthem with no ‘forbidden’ words in it? Pathetic.

“………Hundreds of years of barbaric, murderous Christian religious wars…….Hundreds of years of………Hundreds of years of……Hundreds of years of…….”

Since you have a grasp on history Watty, you’d know that we can’t have secularism either then! 😎
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February 23, 2014 12:48pm
jp_1983

‘better drink my own piss’
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February 23, 2014 12:48pm
radvad

Now I know, Bear Grylls is a murderer. Thanks guys.
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February 23, 2014 1:13pm
Ben Dover

What you believe is your own business but the most Radical part or important part
of Christianity is that you or you are expected to

Treat others the way you expect to be treated.

That shook the world to it’s core that radical concept from year zero
it is as radical now as it was then
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February 23, 2014 2:20pm
Ben Dover

Hundreds of years of serfdom and brutal slavery practised by Christians (and not forgetting that slavery is explicitly sanctioned in the Bible.)

<
What never ceases to amaze me about people pointing at big bad white christians and slavery?
is this how selective you are with slavery?

They fail to study the Role of Judaism and Islam in Slavery?

(are you too scared to look into it)

or Slavery in NZ people kept as a source of protein is that what you want to go back to
(too scared to bring that into Treaty negotiations are we)

Stop kidding yourself that you are anti slavery you are just ANTI CHRISTIAN

Slavery was even practiced in NZ are you going to gloss over that as well?

Did you know in the heathen Wars White Christians? were kidnapped by HEATHEN from the British Isles and sold as Eunuch Slaves to Guess what religion? DO YOUR OWN READING

If you look into it Armies in Britain are about preventing enslavement of the British people and that
is why the Head of the Anglican Church (Your Head of State) is also the head of the Armed Forces

History has proven time and time again forces Hostile to Christianity
even pretending to be christian try one way or another to Destroy what is good.

Find out who introduced Slavery to America and who profited from it and what the real intention was?

Where do you think the term slav comes from?

Not hard to decide who you will support is it they cut your balls off and sell you into Slavery is it

But figuratively and ideologically speaking that IS THE AIMS of successive NZ governments

and that is what New Zealand now represents or stands for
Sodomy Prostitution and CHILD MURDER

IT IS WHAT YOU ARE RENOWNED FOR THE WORLD OVER

YOU MUST BE PROUD

NOW ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS

PUT ANOTHER HEATHEN SYMBOL
ON THE FLAG AND DANCE AROUND
A BONFIRE

and pretend you have a set of Core Values? or believe in Anything at all

or worse

Hold anything as Sacred
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February 23, 2014 2:54pm
mavxp

Ben, the “do unto others” line attributed to Jesus decades after he died was actually a saying of Rabbi Hillel, who was around a generation before Jesus of Nazareth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder

It was also espoused by many others. To say Jesus coined it is to admit a profound bias and ignorance of other cultures and their beliefs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

Methinks you are just parroting some propaganda you heard in church.

Christianity changed the world because it was made palatable to the Greeks and Romans by the educated religious fanatic Paul of Tarsus (Jesus favoured his own race, referring to Cannaanites as dogs). Paul’s Christianity embraced the poor and slaves of the Roman world, but at the same time did not upset the apple-cart of slavery, the rule of the Caesars, or patriarchal societies in general. It was also conveniently adopted by Constantine in his overthrow of Rome, when at the same time he he also backed the pagan worship of the unconquered sun (Sol Invictus), making Sunday the day of rest for the Roman Empire, which we continue today. It was a holy day for sun worshipping pagans and Mithraism (another dying & rising cult and early rival of Christianity), and later Christianity also conveniently adopted it.
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February 23, 2014 3:09pm
big bruv

For those of you who might be battling the booze or know somebody who needs assistance but cannot deal with the fact that AA is a bible bashing organisation then this is outstanding news. The sooner it reaches here the better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/22/us/alcoholics-anonymous-without-the-religion.html?_r=0
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February 23, 2014 3:09pm
Don the Kiwi

The so called “Golden Rule” was around in cultures way before Jesus Christ. The Christian/Jewish version came from the prophet Tobit about 300 BC .
But it was around in other cultures such as the Greek, around 500 BC, in the Chinese culture around the same time (Confucianism), and Buddhism ( Gautama), and in another form but with similar meaning way back to the ancient Egyptians around 2000 BC.
Many of these cultures had inspired and good philosophers, along with the occasional bad -arses.
Such is human nature.
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February 23, 2014 4:23pm
stephieboy

” That deep emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.”

Albert Einstein.
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February 23, 2014 4:43pm
Ben Dover

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder

It was also espoused by many others. To say Jesus coined it is to admit a profound bias and ignorance of other cultures and their beliefs.

You are assuming we are all ignorant “Clueless Goyim” “gentile” white christian sub humans arn’t you?
YOU STILL DON’T GET IT and YOU probably NEVER WILL WILL YOU]
You will nit pick every lay by law and then

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder

If Hillel the Elder came up with it first try and it is identical
here’s an IDEA try following it? and tell the world
preach it to the Masses?

PEOPLE REFUSE To Reciprocate on anything then we need a law for everything
and now we have a treaty that we consult every time we break wind as well

The if JESUS the Nazarene “coined it” ironic term FIRST
IS IRRELEVANT

the Basis of treating people exactly how YOU EXPECT to be treated or better
is the Basis of Christian Ethics which this country is MEANT TO BE founded on?

hard to find many examples of it now really

THAT is one of the Ironies with NZ and with

ISLAM and Judaism they have terms for everyone who

IS NOT or DOES NOT FIT into their Clubs
and TREATS THEM as SUBHUMANS

Everyone who is not Islamic is an Infidel and should be waged holy war on

and anyone who is a Goyim Gentile is less than an animal (but check with the Palestinians on that one)

I mean be hard to get them to admit it but that is the reality isn’t it
that is what some of them think anyway or that is the impression you could get

and then you Complain to Christians?

It is hilarious
About all your problems

It is like jews saying we invented christianity but IT IS CRAP?

which they didn’t really

The Christianity that NZ Society is based on

WAS DEVELOPED in the British Isles it has a CELTIC Foundation
even in those days they could tell that the Practices of coming with Rome WERE UNSOUND

IT IS in some ways
and in many ways it is
A DIRECT RESPONSE TO SLAVERY

and the Corrupt Practices of the Ancient World

Now we have a Prime Minister who apparently attends Church
and has a Jewish Background as well

Contemplating taking the Union Jack off the flag?

FOR CHRISTs Sake
Who helped Stop the Holocaust?
Who was responsible for the Formation of the State of Israel

John Key???

New Zealand and Australia?

What do you want instead people the
Eastern Good luck charm the Swastika???

People continue to Whine about Christianity but what
are the Alternatives for NZ

Cannibalism Head Hunting?

And with a Prime Minister who has assets in Hawaii
you’d think he would know that

Cannibalism Head Hunting
were part of the Pacific War in WW2
Cannibalism was practiced by the Japanese long after Maori had stopped it

and when it comes to GENOCIDE
per head of population what just happened to
THE CHRISTIANS IN EAST TIMOR is as BAD OR WORSE
than what happened IN WORLD WAR TWO

and what religion was behind

THAT RECENT GENOCIDE

and I tell you IF CHRISTIANITY GOES that is what yOU
having coming your Way

Behead all those who
Watch the Wrong You tube Video?

That is how MAD The World has become

Christians have accepted everyone else on the Basis
or in good Faith that
they will be treated the Same

How wrong they are
SAD but true
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February 23, 2014 7:20pm
Ben Dover

” That deep emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.”

Albert Einstein.

“A jewish Co worker said to me the Reason Hitler lost the War was that he persecuted the Jews
their Scientists went to America and developed the Bomb”

The New Zealander Ernest Rutherford is the Father of Nuclear Science but never mind.

>
What he was saying was really this if they had not we would have nuked you instead of the Japanese
to achieve our goals. They did it all on their own and with out a shadow of a doubt they would have nuked the people
who saved them instead and you would be the losers? is what he was saying?

Nice really? Nice thought that? to ponder? Thanks for the Sacrifice
thanks for helping form the State of Israel? Thanks for stopping Natzi Germany
But we had it all under control? and if ole A hitler had been a bit Nicer well
you would have lost

The First German I spoke to in NZ said…
“What you need is a War”?

Not sure what is worse anymore

But the Empathy for NZ and Arrogance speaks Volumes
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February 23, 2014 7:33pm
Dean Papa

hey Ben, are you on crack?
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February 23, 2014 9:39pm
Ben Dover

No Not at all I am just telling you

My Imaginary Friend is better than
Your Imaginary Friend

and If you don’t have an imaginary Friend

then Mine Loves you just the Same.
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February 23, 2014 10:20pm
Ben Dover

ANyway Back to the Assumption
BRAINWASHED By Hollywood that

White Christianity is all about Slavery

Ironically one of the Foundation of Celtic Christianity
in the British Isles
WAS A SLAVE
a Captured one Part Roman Part British

That is why when he escaped to France and Returned to convert his slave masters
he
abolished Slavery

And if I have to tell you who he was then you?

Have to
“admit a profound bias and ignorance of other cultures and their beliefs.”

Him and people like him are the Basis of Christianity in the British Isle
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February 23, 2014 10:34pm
Ben Dover

My imaginary Friend I believe is better than yours

and I can prove it
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February 24, 2014 12:01am
Ben Dover

My Imaginary friend said it is all going to be ok
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February 24, 2014 8:47am

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