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January 25, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 January 2014

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General Debate

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F E Smith

you think the debate about the consequences of changing demographics in the USA for the Republican Party is just a USA media invention and no Republican Party insiders, strategists etc take it seriously? Really?

I didn’t say that. Go back and read what I have said and nowhere will you see me say that.

What else do you want to make up?
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January 25, 2014 6:00pm
Komata

Kea

Although I agree that ‘bringing the boys home’ is a great idea, the sad reality is that it won’t be happening anytime soon. Unfortunately, in international politics as they currently stand, the US is in a no-win situation. It sees itself as being the ‘guardian of democracy’ (American democracy, that is), and (without sounding too old-fashioned) that, with the decline of the former British and French empires it is the only ‘Western’ nation that act as a bastion against the (‘undefined) enroaching hordes which threaten to overrun ‘the West’. Note that these ‘hordes’ are not named BTW. The reason for that ‘omission’ is that in reality (as is being repeatedly evident in events around the globe) the US dare not do anything so ‘dangerous’ as stating that the threat is militant ISLAM, because it simply could not cope with the consequences. The US is as a result, in the position of being ‘all hat and no horse’. and is essentially an ‘illusion, and, unfortunately a facade. In simple terms, despite the ‘military might’ evident in various areas of the globe. it is essentially powerless. This is not of course a good situation and is ‘not for public consumption’ at home, where the carefully-nurtured image of American invincibility’ still resonates with voters who are still prepared to ‘sacrifice their boys’ in the firmly and passionately-held belief that the US is the ‘guardian of democracy’.

As a result of all this, on the all-important ‘International stage’, the USA’s current political administration is now in the unfortunate position ‘loosing’ no matter what it does.

If it decamps from its ‘Middle Eastern’ excursions, it looses in several areas, most importantly in the matter of ‘face’. Once again, as happened in Vietnam, it will have ‘run away’ (aka ‘Lost’) from a conflict, and the international impact will be huge.

It will also be (correctly) seen as being ‘weak’ and we all know what happens to the strong man who is seen as being weak; his emboldened enemies close in for the kill. Such would probably be the result should a withdrawal occur. However, a complication in that specific scenario is that Militant ISLAM will also will also be emboldened, and waste no time in taking its ‘revenge’ against the ‘infidel’ and ‘Great Satan’.

There is also the small matter of ‘reliability’. Unfortunately the US is not renowned for keeping to its treaty-commitments and anything that said to ‘overseas’ hearers will always founder on the rocky-shores of American domestic politics, with national ‘political expediency’ always trumping international obligations. Sadly, this means that in the ‘Middle Eastern’ areas, any local ruler (Khazi in Afghanistan for example’) which have hither-to relied upon American support for their existence, will now be very aware that, once the US goes, they will be too – except that in such areas being ‘gone’ can be frequently long and painful, and extremely barbaric. In Khazi’s (Afghanistan’s) case, the Taliban will return, revenge will be taken (brutally and deliberately BTW) and an ‘Islamic curtain’ will descend. That unfortunate nation will then revert to the Middle Ages (and no, I won’t go there in this instance). As a result of this (and other ‘withdrawals) the US would (once again) be seen as being ‘unreliable’ – especially by those who have hitherto relied upon various treaties and agreements for their protection, and planned accordingly.

These are the he international repercussions, should the US ‘withdraw’. I mentioned ‘face’ before. The discovery that their beloved ‘good ol’ USA’ was in fact a weak and ineffective state, and that they had been the victims of an illusion and that their image of the was totally incorrect, the reaction of the US public is unlikely to be pleasant, and inevitably this could have ‘interesting’ repercussions’, not all of them pleasant…. However, that is also ‘outside’ this response, so, again, i won’t go there…)

And finally, there is the matter of China (aka the ‘Banker’ to the entire United States of America!!) So far, by choice, Beijing has done nothing, content to retain the status quo because it is the Chinese way; to wait, to wait, then, to wait again. However, this cannot last, and it will require only a small ‘tweak’ to bring the entire US down – and (possibly) to heal; to come under Beijing’s sauverinity. This will also be something about which the US will be very aware – as will be the knowledge that it is a matter of WHEN it will happen, rather than ‘IF” If China ‘tweaks, it is likely that the entire ‘house of cards’ that is the American international image, will come crashing down and the scenario’s I have detailed-above will start to play-out.

No, far better to retain the status quo, (and not ‘bring the boys home’)

for as long as the illusion can be maintained, because when the mirror finally cracks there will indeed be ‘much wailing an gnashing of teeth…’

To use the immortal words of one Greenslade, W., ‘It’s all in the mind, you know…’

We live in interesting times…….
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January 25, 2014 6:05pm
SPC

F E Smith, so what you are wanting to say is that despite the changing demographics being to the Democrat Party’s advantage there is no fear of this in the Republican party – coz there are always lawyers who can restrict access to the voting booth for the poor.
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January 25, 2014 6:10pm
bhudson

coz there are always lawyers who can restrict access to the voting booth for the poor.

How so SPC? I’m sure you couldn’t possibly be referring to the Republican’s insistence that only those legally eligible to vote be permitted to do so. After all, that would be tantamount to accusing the Democrats of not respecting the rule of law, but, in fact, looking to subvert it. And in an area where it is in their interests.
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January 25, 2014 6:18pm
F E Smith

coz there are always lawyers who can restrict access to the voting booth for the poor.

My goodness, you are taking this from a left wing playbook! Anything else you want to throw in?

All that, and you are still wrong.

This comment brought to you by the letter ‘L’ and the phrase ‘Tammany Hall’…
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January 25, 2014 6:20pm
F E Smith

bhudson, SPC has trouble with facts, so don’t be too hard on him/her!
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January 25, 2014 6:22pm
bereal

F E Smith up to his old tricks again.

“If I did say that, thats not what I meant.”
“Show me where I said that.”
“Nowhere did I say that.”
“So, what you are trying to say is……..blah, blah…”
“This comment bought to you by a superior knowall.”

FFS
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January 25, 2014 6:24pm
F E Smith

Hey beryl, how’s life? Still commenting whilst drunk?
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January 25, 2014 6:29pm
SPC

bhudson, F E Smith has been unable or unwilling to say why there is no fear in the Republican Party of demographic change in the USA. I raised one possible rationale for why he claims there is no such concern.

The right to vote, or the legitimacy of the vote is one factor, but the practice of requiring a drivers licence as the inner city poor do not afford or need this transport is one means. Another is closing down places in inner city areas where these licences are issued.
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January 25, 2014 6:35pm
bhudson

the practice of requiring a drivers licence as the inner city poor do not afford or need this transport is one means.

At the Federal level, the ID requirement is for new voters who mailed their registration in. It doesn’t have to be a driver’s license – they can use the last 4 digits of their Social Security number. (Which, of course, an eligible voter would have. And that a poor voter would most certainly want.)

[And at the State level – there are 30 States that have voter ID laws – the State is required to provide that ID at no cost.]
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January 25, 2014 6:41pm
F E Smith

I raised one possible rationale for why he claims there is no such concern.

No you didn’t. You suggested that I was saying something that I wasn’t. You had no reference for it, mind, just plain old misrepresentation. Go back and read what I said and you will see why you are wrong.

The right to vote, or the legitimacy of the vote is one factor, but the practice of requiring a drivers licence as the inner city poor do not afford or need this transport is one means.

Of course, not all voter ID laws require a driver’s licence. But don’t let facts get in the way of your political points now, ok? Tell me, are you a believer in the old Labour slogan “Vote early and vote often”?

EDIT:

In South Carolina, Gov. Nikki Haley (R) enacted a law requiring government-issued IDs at the polls, and supplied voters with free IDs and carpools to state DMVs

How evil of her!!!
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January 25, 2014 6:41pm
F E Smith

Democratic controlled Federal Government good, Republican controlled State Government bad!!! (Yes, I know Rhode Island is Democratic, but why ruin a good slogan?)

Corporates spending money on elections bad, Unions spending money on elections good!!!

And so on…
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January 25, 2014 6:50pm
kowtow

Vote early vote often?

Sinn Fein ,surely.The armalite in one hand and the ballot paper in the other.
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January 25, 2014 6:56pm
stephieboy

What I find interesting is how over the years the far right in the U S has since the event of the Tea Party has entered mainstream politics capturing parts of the Republican party. This has coincided with the rise of Conspiracy theories as best exemplified in the 9/11 Truth movement but more especially the election of the first Black President.This in turn has given rise to Birthers , Libertarians , Survivalists , State rightists , far right bloggers etc. I would like to include also revisionist theories about Slavery, Lincoln and the civil war. Not only conspiracy theories abound but a general persuasive paranoia that accompanies it, with dark discussion about e.g FEMA gulags or concentration camps and economic and social doomsday.
Richard Hofstadter , an American Historian wrote about this kind of trend many years ago in a famous book and essay called ” The Paranoid Style in American Politics .” He examined and analyzed similar processes and trends by the then American Far Right with its paranoid vision of a conspiracy of big government and the big international communist conspiracy as per Joe Mc Carthy , the John Birch society etc. At the time of his writing it was somewhat less persuasive than today but rising.
I would like to add the rise of economic stress needs to factored in and wonder if the US was able to achieve the kind of prosperity the country experienced when Hofstadter wrote ( Mmd fifties and sixties ) if these far right fringe elements would evaporate and become as in his time just that, fringe elements on the margins of society
The major unifying theme for the far right both here and on this thread is a persuasive hatred of a black president at the helm which in turn reflects a fundamental change in electoral demographics as witnessed in the 14/11/ 2013.A fact the far right cannot and will not come to terms with..
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January 25, 2014 7:00pm
F E Smith

Kowtow, I am ~~baiting~~ debating SPC, ok? No time to argue Irish history.

Anyway, my liking of Sinn Fein ends with formation of Cumann na nGaedheal. It went all hard left after that.
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January 25, 2014 7:02pm
Scott Chris

An ideological conviction against big government is easier when in opposition, than when in government. Republican rhetoric against government tones down when they have an incumbent.

Quite. Did the US government get any smaller under Bush? Or Reagan for that matter?
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January 25, 2014 7:05pm
F E Smith

To paraphrase stephieboy: you are all raaaaciiiisssst!!!!! (Boy the left do like that one, don’t they?)

No, stephie, we just disagree with his politics. The colour of his skin is, and should always be, irrelevant. Of course, had Hilary won then you would have said any opposition to her was misogynist (like they did with Gillard in Aus).

Identity politics, the last refuge of the ~~scoundrel~~ left.
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January 25, 2014 7:07pm
Scott Chris

No! Really? My goodness, I had no idea!!! So I shouldn’t call Kevin Rudd an Australian, then?

That comparison makes no sense. Obama’s father is Kenyan. Obama is American. Kevin Rudd is Australian.

Simple really.
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January 25, 2014 7:09pm
F E Smith

Did the US government get any smaller under Bush? Or Reagan for that matter?

Now that is an interesting point. I view Bush 43 as a big-government conservative, something that I am not a fan of at all. It would be a mistake to think that Bush 43 would in any real way align with Tea Party politics. He was still better than Obama, I have to admit.

Reagan was personally much less a big-government conservative, but he did face obstruction from the Democrats, who controlled the House for all of his term, and Congress as a whole for much of it.
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January 25, 2014 7:12pm
SPC

“Identity politics, the last refuge of the scoundrel left.”
This all began when Fletch called Obama, the Kenyan.
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January 25, 2014 7:12pm
nasska

A fair question? 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1nisljfxuiu92uc/Socialism%201.jpg
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January 25, 2014 7:13pm
F E Smith

That comparison makes no sense.

Come on, Scott, have a look at what he says. He was objecting to Obama being called a Kenyan. I said he was half Kenyan, which SPC took exception to. I was mocking SPC for a piece of inanity.

Apparently there is no such thing as a Kenyan, ergo…
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January 25, 2014 7:15pm
Scott Chris

I’m sure you couldn’t possibly be referring to the Republican’s insistence that only those legally eligible to vote be permitted to do so.

There is virtually no electoral identity fraud in the United States so why draft laws to deal with a problem that doesn’t exist? Do try to be objective Smith.
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January 25, 2014 7:17pm
F E Smith

Great cartoon, nasska.

There is a nice story in Robert Service’s biography of Lenin where one of his staff didn’t turn up for work one day after the October Coup d’etat. Lenin sent someone to find out why she wasn’t at work, and the reply came back that since they were being told they were their own bosses now, she just didn’t feel like going to work that day so gave herself the day off! Apparently Lenin was not at all amused.
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January 25, 2014 7:18pm
SPC

F E Smith, how is anyone half Kenyan, it is not a race and Obama has never lived in Kenya?
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January 25, 2014 7:19pm
Scott Chris

He was objecting to Obama being called a Kenyan.

Fair objection. You and I both know why they refer to him as “The Kenyan”
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January 25, 2014 7:20pm
F E Smith

There is virtually no electoral identity fraud in the United States so why draft laws to deal with a problem that doesn’t exist? Do try to be objective Smith.

I try to be, Scott, but it was bhudson who said that, not me.

But are you suggesting that they should wait until there is voter fraud before passing such laws? Or is prevention better than cure?

Actually, the UK could do with some voter ID laws. Voter fraud there is rife.
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January 25, 2014 7:21pm
F E Smith

how is anyone half Kenyan, it is not a race

Are you serious?
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January 25, 2014 7:23pm
bhudson

how is anyone half Kenyan, it is not a race and Obama has never lived in Kenya?

Well that will have come as a rude shock to all of those people who thought that they were part-Maori
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January 25, 2014 7:25pm
F E Smith

You and I both know why they refer to him as “The Kenyan”

Of course. And I have no problem with it. If Ted Cruz is elected President of the USA you watch the left call him “The Canadian”.

Unlike some, I don’t always think such names are evidence of racism.
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January 25, 2014 7:25pm
F E Smith

The major unifying theme for the far right both here and on this thread is a persuasive hatred of a Democrat president at the helm

There, fixed that for you, stephie.
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January 25, 2014 7:30pm
bhudson

There is virtually no electoral identity fraud in the United States

There is a position that ineligible voters are being enrolled. That is not electoral identity fraud at the ballot, but either incorrect (and illegal) granting of permission to vote, or an illegal misrepresentation of eligibility to enroll.

You’re looking for fraud in all the wrong places. Keep on looking now. You gotta keep on looking now.
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January 25, 2014 7:31pm
F E Smith

you watch the left call him “The Canadian”

Which would, apparently be wrong, there being no such race as “Canadian”, therefore there must apparently be no such thing as a Canadian.
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January 25, 2014 7:40pm
Tom Jackson

The South was strongly Democrat right through that era, and into the 70s, so any percieved turn towards the left for their civil rights I think is mostly illusory.

That is a risible comment. A single look at every election bar Carter’s in 1976 makes a mockery of your claims. Southern Democrats had been increasingly at odds with the bulk of the party precisely over civil rights from Kennedy’s election onwards. Both Goldwater and Nixon won the South (and Wallace). The only outlier is Carter, who won for obvious reasons.

Nixon’s political strategist Kevin Phillips in 1970:

From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don’t need any more than that…but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That’s where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.[2]

Southerners loved left wing policies as long as they weren’t extended to blacks. They were happy to vote for the New Deal and did so in droves.

Even Reagan knew this. That’s why he started his campaign dog whistling to southern racists.
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January 25, 2014 7:41pm
F E Smith

A single look at every election bar Carter’s in 1976

Why are you presuming that I mean only Presidential elections? Or is that the only part of the stats that fits your narrative?

Even Reagan knew this. That’s why he started his campaign dog whistling to southern racists.

Utter bollocks.
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January 25, 2014 7:43pm
F E Smith

That is a risible comment.

Well, I suppose that you would know, being the master of such a comment.
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January 25, 2014 7:46pm
Johnboy

Gee FES! Interesting to see your button touched! 🙂
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January 25, 2014 7:49pm
F E Smith

Johnboy, I have to say that I am having fun tonight. I’m cooking dinner, however, so will have to take a break soon.

I do read Tom Jackson’s comments for laughs though. He rarely fails in that regard.
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January 25, 2014 7:51pm
F E Smith

Indian required run rate 7.3 and rising. The night just keeps getting better!
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January 25, 2014 7:52pm
Johnboy

Nice to see a human face on the consummate lawyer FES! 🙂
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January 25, 2014 7:52pm
F E Smith

I try to hide it, Johnboy, but sometimes the facade slips!
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January 25, 2014 7:53pm
bereal

There he goes again, old F E Smith @ 7.43

Up to his old tricks.

“I didn’t say that.”
“I didn’t mean that.”
” Prove that I said that.”
“Show me where I said that, if I did.”
“And if I did say that I didn’t mean it.”
“I’m a lawyer, I always tell the truth.”

Just a sad F E joke.
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January 25, 2014 7:56pm
Johnboy

I won’t mention it to Sir Geoffrey FES! 🙂
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January 25, 2014 7:57pm
F E Smith

Thank you, Johnboy, I appreciate it.
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January 25, 2014 7:58pm
johnwellingtonwells

JetStar has TV ads tonight for cheap, cheap fares. Then in very small print they show the conditions. But the advertisment finishes before anyone can read the fine print!!! Let the buyer beware. I could not believe that their service was so bad so tried them out. Got bumped from the flight because I asked their boarding person to have the courtesy to say “please”. So now I know and never again
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January 25, 2014 7:58pm
cha

For what it’s worth here’s the D’Souza indictment.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/politics/dinesh-dsouza-indictment/759/?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost
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January 25, 2014 8:04pm
Johnboy

By jove johnwellingtonwells. Stop being a fucking cheapskate and pay top dollar for first or business class on our national carrier what what….. and they will treat you like the knob you undoubtedly are old boy! 🙂
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January 25, 2014 8:04pm
bereal

Jeez there are some real prats.

johnwellin… etc,

You must be the ignorant prat that got bumped off the flight that i got on.

Hey, boofhead, try insisting that the flight attendant calls you Sir next time.
Say please, say pretty please or I wont get on.
Jeez what a prat.

Are you related to sir douglas graham ?

wanker.
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January 25, 2014 8:14pm
nasska

Johnboy’s drinking mates are still taking the piss out of him over the time he shagged a 13 year old.

Who cares about age anyway?

It was 104 in human years.
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January 25, 2014 8:14pm
SPC

F E Smith

I wonder when the next census comes out whether we will have these categories based on where ones forefathers came from

Canadian New Zealander, Australian New Zealander, Kenyan New Zealander, etc.

Calling an American born President a Kenyan is not an attempt at anything but marginalisation.

Whether his birth father was the Kenyan who married his mother, or a black American, he is now just another American with African DNA. And is so categorised in their society, not as a Kenyan or half Kenyan. No one called Colin Powell the West Indian.
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January 25, 2014 8:19pm
Johnboy

She only looked 10 nasska! 🙂
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January 25, 2014 8:20pm
F E Smith

Whether his birth father was the Kenyan who married his mother, or a black American, he is now just another American with African DNA. And is so categorised in their society, not as a Kenyan or half Kenyan.

And with a puff of smoke, everybody’s heritage disappears. From now on, we are all to be called “Bob”.
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January 25, 2014 8:28pm
F E Smith

Johnboy’s drinking mates are still taking the piss out of him over the time he shagged a 13 year old.

Who cares about age anyway?

It was 104 in human years.

Stop it, it hurts!!! 😀
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January 25, 2014 8:29pm
bhudson

F E Smith,

Surely that will be “Kate” for short?
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January 25, 2014 8:29pm
F E Smith

Surely that will be “Kate” for short?

😀
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January 25, 2014 8:34pm
SPC

F E Smith, most African states were established as regional constructs by departing colonial powers, and there was no such state called Kenya established when the man who later married Obama’s mother left Africa to study in the USA.
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January 25, 2014 8:35pm
Johnboy

It’s actually Gabrielle for even longer you male chauvinist pigs! 🙂
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January 25, 2014 8:39pm
F E Smith

most African states were established as regional constructs by departing colonial powers

I am learning so much today that I shall be able to throw away my history books! Next you will tell me that England does not exist…

there was no such state called Kenya established when Obama’s father left Africa to study in the USA.

What do you call someone born in the Colony and Protectorate of Kenya? Oh, wait, according to SPC you cannot describe someone as being from a certain place. Should we say he is half-Luo, then?

EDIT: No, it looks like we should say that he is half-Joluo
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January 25, 2014 8:43pm
F E Smith

he is now just another American with African DNA

No, that cannot be right. There is no such ethnicity as ‘American’.
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January 25, 2014 8:45pm
Johnboy

“What do you call someone born in the Colony and Protectorate of Kenya?”

Sooty?
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January 25, 2014 8:46pm
F E Smith

No, Johnboy, just no…
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January 25, 2014 8:48pm
Johnboy

Ah…”Sweep” ! 🙂
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January 25, 2014 8:49pm
bereal

You fools.

You argue with F E Smith.

Don’t you understand that he is a lawyer.
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January 25, 2014 9:05pm
SPC

F E Smith, yes people are known by their nationality – their place of birth. The American born like Powell and Obama are Americans. Whether one or both parents were foreign born is irrelevant to that.

That is the tradition of their melting pot, the attempt to categorise Obama otherwise and the defence of that attempt is what is alien to their tradition.
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January 25, 2014 9:17pm
Tauhei Notts

India’s odds have dropped from $7.2 to $3.5 in just two overs.
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January 25, 2014 9:27pm
SPC

That is what happens when lawyers/spinners are too long at bat.
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January 25, 2014 9:34pm
stephieboy

“Calling an American born President a Kenyan is not an attempt at anything but marginalisation.”

Its actually what is known is known as a falsehood.

Fe Smith might claim that he does not take umbrage at the colour of Obama’s skin but there are many who definitely do and a birther movement would not exist if it was shown that a incumbent pale face President’s father was born in say Canada or Spain for that matter.And would not be called a Canadian or Spaniard .
Racism , pure and simple, underlines most of the objections to Obama.
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January 25, 2014 9:35pm
F E Smith

there are many who definitely do and a birther movement would not exist if it was shown that a incumbent pale face President’s father was born in say Canada or Spain for that matter.And would not be called a Canadian or Spaniard .

That is absolutely false.

EDIT: It is that old left wing canard, isn’t it? I oppose you because you are wrong and my pinciples are right, you oppose me because you are racist/sexist/some-other-ist.
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January 25, 2014 9:50pm
Harriet

“…..Racism , pure and simple, underlines most of the objections to Obama….”

So very true Softieboy!

And 98% of blacks voted for the dumb idiot who preached ‘hope and change’ and told Joe the plumber ‘I’ll spread the wealth around’. Now the blacks are complaining that there’s been no change in it for them.

Were the blacks being racist when they voted for him…..or are blacks just dumb? 😎
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January 25, 2014 9:52pm
F E Smith

people are known by their nationality

Can you please stick to a consistent principle?
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January 25, 2014 9:58pm
F E Smith

Anyway, Obama’s mother is of European descent, so he is half-White and half-African. But born in America. But being a lefty you probably work on the one drop principle, right SPC?
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January 25, 2014 10:01pm
SPC

F E Smith, people born in the USA are Americans. Not Kenyans or half Kenyans. That is their melting pot thing.

One can get all sorts of prefix-labels (as people self-describe themselves), but all conclude with American.
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January 25, 2014 10:11pm
stephieboy

I think FE Smith your being rather specious re the fact Obama is half white and half African.Yes that is true as far as it goes but there are many on the far right who don’t make that kind of distinction nor care for that matter.
it wouldn’t make a difference e.g in the old segregated South. In fact it would be likely he would be regarded as a more of an outcast and a pariah as a product of intermarriage .
It remains my view that most of the attacks directed at Obama are racially motivated.
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January 25, 2014 10:14pm
cha

Suddenly, boat!.
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January 25, 2014 10:15pm
Tauhei Notts

The cricket.
A tie!
Wouldn’t our TAB want to get a piece of that Betfair action.
Betfair’s turnover between the end of the 49th over and five balls later was GBP838,073.
Un bloody believable.
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January 25, 2014 10:21pm
stephieboy

Harriet (3,463 comments) says:
January 25th, 2014 at 9:52 pm

Your yet again highly irrational , totally inept and shallow. 98% of blacks voted for him.? And since the black population represents about 12.5 % of the population of the US then Obama must of got and did receive a sizable chunk of White voters. Were white voters who voted for him being racist .?
“You aint got the sense you were born with.” ! ( or more likely not born with )
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January 25, 2014 10:38pm
F E Smith

there are many on the far right who don’t make that kind of distinction

Most of those people are on the left, like the BNP, for example. Have a look at what they believe and their politics are found to be eerily similar to yours. Like Kyle Chapman and his championing of the working class white man. He fits on the left extremely well, notwithstanding his misdescription of his politics.

It remains my view that most of the attacks directed at Obama are racially motivated.

Like I said, the left have to believe that opposition to their principles is motivated by hatred. That is mostly because the left are the biggest pack of haters you will find, they cannot believe that someone could oppose them based upon principles. Just listen to the Greens sometime!! The vast majority Republicans oppose Obama because they think his policies are wrong. Pretty much all of the Tea Party likewise, although they also think that some Republican policies are wrong.

If you cannot accept then you are a moron.

But you tell yourself whatever you need to know.

SPC, your point is ridiculous. People describe themselves as half this and half that all of the time. You are trying to remove the ability to call Obama a Kenyan when that is in fact a large part of his heritage. He is half-Kenyan and half-American; just ask any Kenyan!!!

The fact that he was born in the USA makes him an American citizen, but it in no way negates his heritage.

And as a first generation New Zealander, I object to your arbitrary denial of my mixed heritages.
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January 25, 2014 11:02pm
Reid

Your yet again highly irrational , totally inept and shallow

It’s “you’re” not “your” stephie.

Were white voters who voted for him being racist .?

No, just mental. He’s worse than Bush 43. That’s amazing. Imagine how you could possibly be worse than Bush 41. But then Clinton almost but not quite achieved it. But then Bush 43 came along. And he was worse. And then comes Obama. And he is even worse. Worse and worse. The 4 worst presidents in US history hit the US one after the other, bang bang bang bang just like that.

“You aint got the sense you were born with.” ! ( or more likely not born with )

If anyone doesn’t recognise this, after 4 (four) FOUR 4 in a row, then I quite agree.

Do you recognise that, stephie?
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January 25, 2014 11:03pm
F E Smith

Fe Smith might claim that he does not take umbrage at the colour of Obama’s skin

Actually, that is straight out offensive. Are you calling me a racist and a liar?
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January 25, 2014 11:05pm
F E Smith

Obama must of got

And it is must have got, not must of got.
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January 25, 2014 11:06pm
SPC

F E Smith, his nationality is entirely American. Some Americans do self declare/describe their heritage. But I know of no American who says they are half American half something else, according to their parental source.

Colin Powell was never called a West Indian because of his parentage.

So when Fletch calls Obama a Kenyan, and you call him half Kenyan, I just do not agree. It’s just the politics of un-American label marginalisation.

What has your parental identity to do with it? It does not make you half a New Zealander.
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January 25, 2014 11:19pm
Tom Jackson

Why are you presuming that I mean only Presidential elections? Or is that the only part of the stats that fits your narrative?

No. I’m presuming you’re an idiot based on previous form and tonight’s laugh fest. It’s nice that you are taken in by the derpers attempt to rewrite history. Everyone who studies American politics knows that congressional races work differently to national ones and that localism is a much bigger deal in the US than it is here. The power of incumbency, regionalism and gerrymandering is much more evident in congressional races.

Look, if you want to believe the risible attempts to rewrite history by the current US right, go ahead. Sure, Strom Thurmond was a Democrat, but he and his ilk bolted for the Republican Party because of civil rights.

Even Reagan knew this. That’s why he started his campaign dog whistling to southern racists.

Utter bollocks.

Sigh:

Yet it’s with Reagan, who set a standard for exploiting white anger and resentment rarely seen since George Wallace stood in the schoolhouse door, that the Republican’s selective memory about its race-baiting habit really stands out.

Space doesn’t permit a complete list of the Gipper’s signals to angry white folks that Republicans prefer to ignore, so two incidents in which Lott was deeply involved will have to suffice. As a young congressman, Lott was among those who urged Reagan to deliver his first major campaign speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi, where three civil rights workers were murdered in one of the 1960s’ ugliest cases of racist violence. It was a ringing declaration of his support for “states’ rights” — a code word for resistance to black advances clearly understood by white Southern voters.

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,399921,00.html#ixzz2rP4AF1ez

I thought anyone remotely interested in the history of US politics knew that.

Then there’s the Holmes-Cooney fight. It has been consistently claimed, even by Holmes himself in his autobiography, that Reagan had arranged to call great white hope Cooney to congratulate him if he won, but saw no reason to do the same for the African American Holmes (one of the great heavyweight champions who pulverised Cooney with a complete display of boxing).

Face it: Reagan had problems with race.
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January 25, 2014 11:29pm
Tom Jackson

This graph from The Oxford Handbook of Southern Politics (p.297) tells the story quite well.

Republican representation in the South trends up at a steady rate in both state and federal representation from about 1960 onwards. The era around Watergate being the only anomaly for obvious reasons.

http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=9Q16Kv6J9OUC&lpg=PA290&ots=lCqHxESM5h&dq=southern%20whites%20party%20preference%20over%20time&pg=PA297#v=onepage&q=southern%20whites%20party%20preference%20over%20time&f=false
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January 25, 2014 11:37pm
itstricky

WRT Twitter.

Does someone need to tell DPF that WASP is for people who don’t understand the game?
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January 25, 2014 11:48pm
stephieboy

Reid (14,734 comments) says:
January 25th, 2014 at 11:03 pm

The white voters “mental”.??
At your uppity condescending best ,yet again.!

F E Smith (3,180 comments) says:
January 25th, 2014 at 11:05 pm

A liar .? Maybe but its an opinion nevertheless. Am skeptical over your bona fides when one digs deep enough.
Again IMO.!
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January 25, 2014 11:53pm
F E Smith

Am skeptical over your bona fides when one digs deep enough.

See, there is that left wing canard again: Deep down, I simply cannot believe that you oppose (ME/LEFT WING POLITICIAN) on principle so you must therefore really be RACIST/MISOGYNIST/EVIL even though you say you aren’t.

It is childish of you, really.

EDIT: I see Tom Jackson feels the same way, but that is no surprise.
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January 26, 2014 11:22am
F E Smith

Oh dear, it appears that Tom Jackson is getting his views on Reagan from Salon.com. Well, there goes any credibility he had!!!
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January 26, 2014 4:25pm

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