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January 21, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 21 January 2014

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General Debate

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nickb

Had to laugh when I was reading cricinfo last week and it had Bruce Martin as one of around 12 nominees for “debutant of the year” in 2014.
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January 21, 2014 2:04pm
Rowan

Andrew Ellis is another dud allrounder tried in recent years, good enough for Canterbury but didn’t fire a shot for NZ, ODI average for NZ 14 from 15 ODIs compared with first class average of nearly 34. Are there any decent untried allrounders out there that we could blood apart from Anderson?
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January 21, 2014 2:14pm
Rowan

SS
Maybe a place for Kerry Walmsley also?
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January 21, 2014 2:18pm
Samuel Smith

Possibly Walmsley instead of Davis.
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January 21, 2014 2:20pm
nickb

Tama Canning?

God, I’m feeling depressed….
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January 21, 2014 2:21pm
Longknives

Wasn’t Tama Canning more famous for his ‘liaison’ with Susan Wood than his cricket?
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January 21, 2014 2:29pm
Rowan

Does Colin Munro bowl enough to be considered a batting allrounder? His first class bowling average is 33, but can probably only be considered as a part timer to fill in a couple of overs here and there.
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January 21, 2014 2:33pm
nickb

It says volumes about his cricket if a liaison with Susan Wood brings you more renown, LK. But I didn’t know that, actually.
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January 21, 2014 2:35pm
MT_Tinman

SS Dipak helped knock the Ockers out of their WC. That alone (plus his 99 against the Poms in a test) rules him out of your team.

Edwards surely would replace the competent (as a ‘keeper) Germon in most teams.
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January 21, 2014 2:48pm
MT_Tinman

nickb (3,331 comments) says:
January 21st, 2014 at 2:04 pm
Had to laugh when I was reading cricinfo last week and it had Bruce Martin as one of around 12 nominees for “debutant of the year” in 2014.

Not a lot of debutants in 2013(?) huh?
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January 21, 2014 2:50pm
MH

morality of soccer for NZers.
If a player passes you hack him down from behind.Don’t worry about being sent off the team will just intimidate the ref.
Ever seen a gutless Rugby Ref? I mean one that won’t move backwards. You get marched 10m for muttering even with your back turned.
If they had yellow cards in soccer there would be 2 players left at full time.
In union they have a penalty try,in soccer you get a chance to defend an indefensible act. No lesson learnt,demerit points system. And the dives and the fake injury,utter disgrace,laughable,all part of the beautiful game though,just what young boys need as role models.
In Union you have a bit of manly biff,in soccer just a hissy fit and slaps all round and then if a goal scored a gay old time near the corner flag.
No wonder we have so many women school teachers,rugby rules requires a bit of thought. No wonder boys aren’t doing well in the last 30yrs.
It’s a beautiful game though, and the fans,the Duke of Wellington summed them up.
And what part of NZ is it’s pofessional team based, and what accents does one hear from the team and management,I’ll say no more.
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January 21, 2014 2:58pm
Longknives

Ha ha Dipak was stumbling round the Captain Cook Tavern one night on about day three of a Test match during my glorious Varsity Days (Christ I’m getting on…)- I remember we asked him “Haven’t you got to play tomorrow?” and he just laughed..
Not an overly glorious era for NZ cricket- The South African Pot smoking debacle was about the same time..
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January 21, 2014 3:01pm
big bruv

nickb

Re your question as to why we do not produce truly quick bowlers more often (150km plus)

The answer for that is really quite simple, you cannot “make” or “produce” a fast bowler. In theory you can teach a talented athlete to bat, you can teach him to bowl spin, you can teach him to be a medium pacer or seam bowler. What you cannot do is teach them to bowl fast.

Fast bowling is like sprinting, you are either born with the ability to bowl really fast (just as you are born with the ability to sprint quickly) or not. No amount of teaching is going to change that.
The added problem we have in NZ is that most of the talented young sportsmen seem to be attracted to a minor world game played with an oval ball, goodness knows how many of them waste their talent on a rugby field when they could be earning far more than even the All Black captain playing cricket if they had the ability to play a real game at international level.
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January 21, 2014 3:03pm
nickb

Interesting bruv….I was reading something recently by Martin Crowe (I think) about the number of supposedly “fast” bowlers that go through our academy and youth grade cricket system, only to have coaches mess with their actions, he was very scathing, as have some other commentators on Sky recently…same comments were made about our batsmen and the emphasis on “biomechanics” instead of teaching good batting basics like balance, technique, still head etc. Very interesting.

What is for certain is we have a hell of a lot of players burst onto the scene only to disappear shortly thereafter – Papps, Cumming, Sinclair, Vincent, How, Mason, Gillespie, Brownlie, Stewart, Elliot, so on. We seem to be on par with England with players being tried and discarded.
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January 21, 2014 3:09pm
dime

i would have loved to have been clocked in my hey day. i was probably as fast as vettori but feeling like bruce reid (huge BR fan back in the day).

i freakin loved Abdul Qadir too.

bruv – “The added problem we have in NZ is that most of the talented young sportsmen seem to be attracted to a minor world game played with an oval ball”

as opposed to playing a minor world game called cricket.

love em both, hardly giant sports.

“but but but indian have a billion people yada yada yada”
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January 21, 2014 3:26pm
Longknives

From memory Abdul Qadir got sent home from NZ tour in ’84 after making no effort to field a ball heading for the boundary (I think he had a clash with Zaheer and/or Miandad)
Can anyone elaborate?
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January 21, 2014 3:29pm
dime

Longknives – a touch before my time. he must have toured again around 88-90?

for some reason offspinners bug the crap out of me.. but leggies rule
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January 21, 2014 3:32pm
nickb

Yup…Legspin is where it’s at. Hence why it is good Sodhi shows some promise…although now you sad bastards have mentioned Brooke Walker and Greg Loveridge in the same thread he is probably jinxed for life 🙂
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January 21, 2014 3:34pm
nickb

Anyway, let’s keep up the reminiscing of NZ’s hundreds of mediocre test cricketers in the future.

It is a great and refreshing change from Allah v Jesus and getting abused for questioning why David Bain washed bloodied clothes before calling 111 (not you Rowan) 🙂
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January 21, 2014 3:39pm
Elaycee

What’s the fastest ball ever bowled in NZ? Anyone know?

It’s impossible to compare different eras because in days past, there were no radar guns around. But those with a long tooth may recall the name of Marlborough’s Gary Bartlett – when John R Reid watched Bartlett’s debut ball against the ‘Australian XI’ in 1960 whistle past the nose of Australian opener Ian Craig at the Basin Reserve, the NZ slip cordon took three paces further back from the stumps. Bartlett’s pace was astonishing – and it was a real pity his career was plagued by (back) injury. And no-balls.

John Reid said some years later (and it’s also in one of his books) that for sheer pace, Bartlett was the fastest of his era – anywhere! I think I still have a photo somewhere of Bartlett bowling the Indian Captain (Nawab of Pataudi) in Christchurch with the stumps flying but the bat hasn’t made it down…..

But the (official) fastest ball bowled in NZ was by Brett Lee (against NZ at Napier, 2005) clocked at 160.8 kph.
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January 21, 2014 3:40pm
Longknives

I was only 8 or 9 in ’84 but I remember the controversy when Qadir got marched home…(I was a cricket nut from a very young age)
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January 21, 2014 3:42pm
dime

Speaking of great openers.. Craig Spearman comes to mind! A good Kelston boy haha

He actually had a semi decent first class record. just terrible playing for NZ though.

His test record is better than craig cumming.. maybe he should join sky and become the resident know it all loser
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January 21, 2014 3:42pm
Longknives

“and getting abused for questioning why David Bain washed bloodied clothes before calling 111 (not you Rowan) :)”

Ha! Not to mention querying why Davey took such an unnatural interest in what knickers his late sister was buried in….(that’s not at all creepy)

But back to the cricket…
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January 21, 2014 3:44pm
dime

Longknives – same age as me then. i used to watch cricket back then but mainly ODI’s.. test cricket from about 86 onward. the test series in aussie.. the umpire not giving mike whitney out LBW in the final over etc
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January 21, 2014 3:45pm
Longknives

Mike Whitney- Didn’t he present Who Dares Wins with that bimbo in the tank top?
Tanya something- Also famous for um… ‘entertaining’ the troops in Afghanistan….
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January 21, 2014 3:52pm
Gosman

The second in my series of posts about the failure of leftist economic and political thinking around the world.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/01/the-grim-reality-of-leftist-policies_21.html
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January 21, 2014 3:54pm
igm

The Manawatu Standard (Fairfax branch of the Labour Party) have really produced a left-wing piece of crap today. Articles engineered by Lees-Galloway, ending with a pro-climate change slur on JK. I have now joined many others, not buying a bloody thing that may have been advertised in any Fairfax publications.
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January 21, 2014 3:56pm
tedbear

What can be done to prevent so called do-gooders interfering in the lives and behaviour of whales?
These highly intelligent animals know exactly how to live.
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January 21, 2014 4:07pm
nickb

I think I’ve got a new nominee for the pace bowling slot…Lance Hamilton

Picked from obscurity in the mid 2000s to play ODIs against Australia, only to be demolished by Gilchrist & Co…
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January 21, 2014 4:55pm
Komata

Tedbear

Re: ‘These highly intelligent animals know exactly how to live’

Evidently they also know how to die – but just forgot to advise the shore-based, well-intentioned bipeds of their intentions …

(To be repeatedly thwarted when you and your mates simply want to expire on a beach of one’s choosing, must be VERY frustrating!!)

Chapter 32 of Adam’s ‘So Long and Thanks For All The Fish’ comes to mind…
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January 21, 2014 4:56pm
tedbear

Komata, what the “well-intentioned bipeds” really need to do is get their own lives in shape before moving up to those of higher intelligence,
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January 21, 2014 5:17pm
Komata

Tedbear

I totally agree, but as long as ‘whales’ and other ‘cute cuddly animals’ are seems as being ‘so sexy’ and ‘helpless’ what chance do those who live in the ‘real world’ actually have? Against those sorts of (widely-held) perceptions, humans are SOOO daily (and ‘yuckky’ as well…)
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January 21, 2014 5:39pm
tedbear

Nearly time for my dinner, but I also want to express my thoughts on the other so-called experts on earthquakes that keep on keeping on about THE BIG ONE.

To put it mildly, they don’t know shit.
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January 21, 2014 5:53pm
Samuel Smith

My all time NZ One Day XI:

1. Ryder
2. Astle
3. Williamson
4. Taylor
5. Crowe
6. McCullum (w/k)
7. Cairns
8. Anderson
9. Vetorri (c)
10. Hadlee
11. Bond

Unlucky: Larsen, Harris

Challenge anyone to form a better team.
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January 21, 2014 6:07pm
Manolo

Big party (orgy?) in Dunedin tonight: http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/peter-dunne-looks-forward-picking-up-threads-5804830
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January 21, 2014 6:23pm
big bruv

Samuel Smith.

Take out Wiliamson and replace him with Andrew Jones and swap Anderson for Larsen and you have the right team.
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January 21, 2014 6:29pm
big bruv

Elaycee.

You are correct to say that Bartlett was quick. His career was indeed cut short through injury. However, there was a bigger issue when it came to Bartlett, the man was a terrible chucker.

His action was not questionable, it was not one that deserved to come under closer scrutiny, it was an out and out chuck.

Of course, had Bartlett been a Sri Lankan then they would simply have changed the rules of the game to allow his chucking and her could have gone on to take hundreds of test wickets like another well known cheat.
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January 21, 2014 6:34pm
Samuel Smith

big burv – Can’t agree. I think Williamson will end up with NZ’s all time one day and test run scoring records.

Larsen is the the more valuable one day bowler, but Anderson can score very quickly and already holds a world record.
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January 21, 2014 6:36pm
Kea

I just don’t get Cricket and nor do any of my friends from interesting countries. At least Thugby is funny, in a camp homo erotic sort of way, but Cricket has no redeeming features. You guys do know the matches are all rigged anyway ? No one is going to stand around in the summer sun all day bored to tears for the sort of money they get, without being on the take.
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January 21, 2014 6:49pm
big bruv

nickb

“Papps, Cumming, Sinclair, Vincent, How, Mason, Gillespie, Brownlie, Stewart, Elliot”

Take out Mason and Gillespie who are bowlers and Crowe is dead right. The problem we have in NZ domestic cricket is that our standard is so low that the players you mention can prosper with defective techniques. Once they get to Test level they are quickly found out.
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January 21, 2014 6:50pm
big bruv

Kea

Firstly, happy new year.

Now….”No one is going to stand around in the summer sun all day bored to tears for the sort of money they get,”

Clearly you know less about the game than you have already admitted. Most of the NZ team would earn as much as an All Black and the better players earn far more than any rugby player.
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January 21, 2014 6:51pm
jcuk

David posted that scary video of an elephanr and a car which reminded me of an earlier event and then later I eremembered I posted it on my blog .

http://jcuknzs.blogspot.co.nz/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=8
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January 21, 2014 7:02pm
Kea

Hi big bruv, yeah but at least the ABs get to grope other blokes and get a bit of man love in. Cricket has none of that, they just have to stand in a sunny paddock all day waiting until they can stroll off the field, pick up the bribe money, and get shit faced drunk to numb the boredom.
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January 21, 2014 7:02pm
stephieboy

American Baseball heads and shoulders above cricket,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCbGiz8r1Q

And a lot more entertaining.!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm0YvdT1X3Q
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January 21, 2014 7:19pm
Kea

10 Hours of Paint Drying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVZr3WbMQ6w
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January 21, 2014 7:23pm
nickb

Kea,

You (apparently) are female. You. Will. Never. Get. It.

At the risk of being sexist, I have yet to meet a woman who has understood even a moderate level of cricket’s rules. It is simply too nuanced and complex for the female mind. They prefer the instant gratification of, say, The Bachelor or Keeping up With the Kardashians.

If any male readers find one, marry them.
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January 21, 2014 7:25pm
Kea

nickb, wants a girl so he can talk about cricket rules with her.

What a catch ladies ! LOL 🙂
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January 21, 2014 7:27pm
nickb

Stephieboy –

A bunch of roided shrivelled dick gorillas injecting each other in the butt before going out to have one attempt to hit a ball into a crowd of obese and obnoxious yanks? No thanks

Edit: By your logic cricket would be a better sport if there were fistfights when a batsmen gets hit by the ball??
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January 21, 2014 7:27pm
nickb

No Kea, preferably one that already understands it. Unless taught at birth cricket remains forever as unfathomable as nuclear physics.
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January 21, 2014 7:29pm
Kea

nickb, gorillas injecting each others butt, sounds a lot like the ABs to me.
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January 21, 2014 7:31pm
Kea

No Kea, preferably one that already understands it. Unless taught at birth cricket remains forever as unfathomable as nuclear physics.

Oh, so you want a man. That explains you slyly introducing “dicks and butts” into the conversation.
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January 21, 2014 7:33pm
nasska

To make a valid comparison of the boredom induced by games of rugby & cricket or the sexual preferences of the players involved one needs a reference point.

Soccer anyone? 🙂
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January 21, 2014 7:39pm
nickb

Don’t worry Kea, I’m not planning on making the man shortage in NZ any worse for you. It’s already hard enough for hairy backed sheilas (who hate our 2 most popular sports) like yourself to find one.

Alas, I am already taken by a good woman who I think is slowly learning the rules of the greatest game 🙂
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January 21, 2014 7:39pm
nickb

Nasska, on a scale of straight to gay, soccer is absolutely fabulous!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ioyt2zzm530
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January 21, 2014 7:41pm
stephieboy

nick b,
Err not but this is more like it,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqL_zZ4urs8

I repeat, head and shoulders above watching paint dry .!
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January 21, 2014 7:43pm
nickb

Take out Mason and Gillespie who are bowlers and Crowe is dead right. The problem we have in NZ domestic cricket is that our standard is so low that the players you mention can prosper with defective techniques. Once they get to Test level they are quickly found out.

Agreed…and now our first class games get pushed to the extreme ends of the season to accommodate T20 it’s not going to get any better….
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January 21, 2014 7:44pm
nasska

…”soccer is absolutely fabulous!”….

The kissing & hugging seen on the average soccer ground would make the gayest nightclub chaste by contrast. 🙂
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January 21, 2014 7:46pm
nasska

The questions religious parents fear:

Catholics:
“Daddy, what is ‘safe sex?’

Muslim:
“Daddy, why did Allah make those men blow themselves up?”

Buddhists:
“Daddy, am I allowed to swat flies?”

Jews:
“Daddy, can I start having pocket money please?”

Hinduism:
“Daddy, can we go to McDonalds?”

Amish:
“Daddy, wouldn’t we be better off with a tractor?”

Sikhism:
“Daddy, can I get a haircut?”
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January 21, 2014 8:01pm
Rowan

Longknives/Nick B
Now who is it trying to turn this into a DB thread, it is you haters not any supporters, but back to the cricket. It is better than the religous hate threads, thanks Kea, or motormouth demonstrating his total stupidity to the entire country.
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January 21, 2014 8:22pm
stigie

You are way out of line Nasska, had to give you an up tick !~
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January 21, 2014 8:24pm
Rowan

SS
Might go for Styris over Williamson, as a genuine allrounder, Can shuffle Taylor up to no3 and then have Crowe/Styris at 4 and 5 but it is a pretty good side overall. Is Anderson an all time great yet this early in his career? yes he has been very impressive to date but a bit soon for an all time eleven at this stage, so go for Larsen instead.
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January 21, 2014 8:28pm
Steve (North Shore)

Seems the devil dodgers are scared if the game “Cricket” Some have tried trolling but to no avail.
Cricket is far more important than Religion – and I worked that out by myself, without a University Degree, and without …
Fuck I am clever.
Meanwhile back in normality, the Australian Open I like. Sat/Sun finals yeah!
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January 21, 2014 8:31pm
Kea

Rowan, yeah I bet you have plenty of time for cricket. Are you on Home D again ?
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January 21, 2014 8:42pm
MT_Tinman

big bruv (11,926 comments) says:
January 21st, 2014 at 6:50 pm
nickb

“Papps, Cumming, Sinclair, Vincent, How, Mason, Gillespie, Brownlie, Stewart, Elliot”

Take out Mason and Gillespie who are bowlers and Crowe is dead right. The problem we have in NZ domestic cricket is that our standard is so low that the players you mention can prosper with defective techniques. Once they get to Test level they are quickly found out.

Except of course How and Vincent both scored test tons against the Ockers (How in the “lighthouse” test), Brownlie an important half century in a winning test v the same opposition.

Sinclair a debut double ton.

Crowe may not know as much as he thinks he does – “quickly” indeed!
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January 21, 2014 8:50pm
Kea

How Islam enlightened the world while the christstains tortured scientists to death.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar7CNsJUm58
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January 21, 2014 8:56pm
Fletch

Which scientist was tortured to death, Kea?
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January 21, 2014 8:59pm
Kea

Fletch, you won’t accept the words of your own bible, so I doubt you will accept my humble offerings. Science that did not match with religion was banned and the penalties were hideous.

But as I say, you can not read the clear words of god, let alone real history.
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January 21, 2014 9:05pm
Kea

Israeli Settler Rabbi Praises Islamic Takeover Of Europe

“[E]ven if we are in a major war with the region’s Arabs over the Land of Israel, Islam is still much better as a gentile culture than Christianity,” the rabbi claimed.

“Jews should rejoice at the fact that Christian Europe is losing its identity as a punishment for what it did to us for the hundreds of years were in exile there,” Efrati continued, quoting descriptions from rabbinic literature from the middle ages about atrocities committed by Christians against Jews.

“We will never forgive Europe’s Christians for slaughtering millions of our children, women and elderly…Not just in the recent Holocaust, but throughout the generations, in a consistent manner which characterizes all factions of hypocritical Christianity

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2012/11/israeli-settler-rabbi-praises-islamic-takeover-of-europe-123.html
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January 21, 2014 9:14pm
Rowan

Bugger of Kea, and there is no need to troll your hatred of religion all over GD. Have you ever heard of the concept of ‘freedom of choice’?
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January 21, 2014 9:30pm
Kea

Rowan, I offered no comment of my own. I simply presented what the learned Rabbi said about you Christians.

Clearly you hate Jews and are a holocaust denier. You should be ashamed. No wonder the Rabbi was compelled to the conclusions he drew.

And yes I have heard of freedom of choice bigot. I choose what I write and you can choose to not read it.
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January 21, 2014 9:36pm
Nostalgia-NZ

The spinner is away, must have been checking out about the ‘vacuum effect.’
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January 21, 2014 9:41pm
Kea

Rowan further considering the Rabbis words

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d6pBEIKvc5k/T2uWbJe6IQI/AAAAAAAAAxg/MsnyqHAMlg4/s1600/Martinsen%2BKnud%2BBorge%2B-%2BLegions-Obersturmbannf%C3%BChrer.jpg

[Just kidding. It is actually some random Catholic guy]
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January 21, 2014 9:54pm
SPC

As the numbers who drink declines laws restricting access to alcohol become tighter and tighter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25805873
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21586892
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January 21, 2014 10:07pm
Kea

SPC, it is not a decline in drinkers, it is an increase in nanny state and control freaks.

If alcohol related problems are declining, then why would they be screaming for more laws ?
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January 21, 2014 10:11pm
SPC

Kea, as the number of non drinkers increases (and the number of drinkers who just drink beer and wine bought from the supermarket with shopping) the condemnation of those who drink at pubs, clubs and sports events increases.

The nanny state and control freaks are those who do not drink at pubs, clubs and at sports events.
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January 21, 2014 10:24pm
stephieboy

Nostalgia ,so someone shoots at close or contact range , the bullet is propelled outwards then the rifle decides to suck it all the contents back in.
The vacuum effect,eh.!
Interesting.!
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January 21, 2014 10:43pm
SPC

Shift work really harmful to health.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25812422
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January 21, 2014 10:51pm
SPC

“Samuel Smith (245 comments) says:
January 21st, 2014 at 6:07 pm
My all time NZ One Day XI:

1. Ryder
2. Astle
3. Williamson
4. Taylor
5. Crowe
6. McCullum (w/k)
7. Cairns
8. Anderson
9. Vetorri (c)
10. Hadlee
11. Bond

Unlucky: Larsen, Harris

Challenge anyone to form a better team.”

Fleming in for Williamson.

C. Cairns or Anderson (still a little unproven) or L. Cairns.
Thus a place for Harris or Larsen (a slower bowler harder to score off) or Chatfield.
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January 21, 2014 11:01pm
Kea

stephieboy, yes it is fascinating this vacuum effect.

For decades technicians in labs have studies ballistics with the aid of high speed cameras and numerous measuring devices. Things you would not even imagine have been studied in minute detail. Millions of firearm enthusiasts are constantly looking for new things that they may have missed. But never ever has this vacuum effect been observed.

Thanks to David Bain supporters, we now know that the gasses exiting the barrel at supersonic speed along with a projectile at around 1000 fps, actually sucks random stuff “deep inside” the barrel against the flow of all that high speed gas and lead.

I reckon Nosty deserves a Nobel Prize for this finding and will probably get one if he can ever explain it.
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January 21, 2014 11:07pm
Kea

SPC, yeah probably right. There are tons of sly boozers who drink way too much at home. A recipe for disaster if you ask me.
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January 21, 2014 11:09pm
Rowan

Yawn, Stephie the Bain dunce and the bird brained freak.
You really showing your ‘expertise’ on this one, maybe you really were needed at the retrial to counter Peter Ross evidence? Ross clarified in response to a direct question from Justice Pankhurst hat the only way the blood could have got in the barrel of the gun was from ‘blowback’ or ‘vacuam’ from the last shot fired being a hard contact wound, as any subsequent firing would have cleared any blood or other matter from the barrel.
But you know better don’t you Stephiedunce and that ‘it was possible for the blood not to have been from the last shot’ don’t you?

One does not need to be a ballastics expert to work out the logic behind this one.
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January 22, 2014 9:33am

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