General Debate 13 January 2014

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Manolo

Clearly he’s got it into his head he’s on to a veritable winner in his secret mission to discredit Craig so as to bring himself kudos and plaudits…

Nobody would’ve noticed it, having been for the fact the minion from Dunedin proudly wears his UnitedFuture hat every time he pens a comment.
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January 13, 2014 4:05pm
flipper

Nostradamus (2,618 comments) says:

January 13th, 2014 at 3:48 pm
****

Well was it the mad dentist?

If it was, it seems that his skills as a pilot may be on a par with his knowledge on the failed case against Mr Bain , and other matters.

Having said that, I am sure that Rowan would never, other than in jest, celebrate the injury if worse suffered by any KB commenter – except when they are in the process of lying and/or deliberately distorting.

If it was the mad dentist, I wish him well in his recovery, hope that the experience will be salutary, and that he will (now) actually make a careful and detailed study of all issues on which he professes to know more than a properly briefed and instructed Jury, The Privy Council, and an independent Judicial Officer of the highest international standing.
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January 13, 2014 4:07pm
Pete George

The closer to the bone the greater the bullshit reaction.
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January 13, 2014 4:08pm
flipper

Pete George (20,493 comments) says:

January 13th, 2014 at 4:08 pm

The closer to the bone the greater the bullshit reaction.

****

Come on PG…..

Whose /which bone?
What bullshit?.

Authenticate please
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January 13, 2014 4:29pm
Pete George

The usual suspects flipper, sorry, not aimed at you, your comment slipped in between. You made some actual fair arguments in your previous (3.29). I was fishing on that.
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January 13, 2014 4:40pm
Fletch

Remember when Helen Clark, Labour and co tried to foist the Electoral Finance Act on the country in an attempt to stop groups speaking during an election year?
Well, Obama is going to try something similar in the U.S using the IRS. It seems he thinks he can get away with it because after his last misuse of the IRS, nothing significant came of it, so he doubling down.

Despite the furor over the IRS assault on conservative groups leading up to the 2012 elections, this man – a despotic radical who’s turned our constitutional republic into one of the banana variety – has quietly released a proposed set of new IRS regulations that, if implemented, will immediately, unlawfully and permanently muzzle conservative 501(c)(4) nonprofit organizations and their individual employees. (The 501(c)(4) designation refers to the IRS code section under which social welfare organizations are regulated).

The new regulations would unconstitutionally compel a 90-day blackout period during election years in which conservative 501(c)(4) organizations – such as tea-party, pro-life and pro-family groups – would be banned from mentioning the name of any candidate for office, or even the name of any political party.

Here’s the kicker: As you may have guessed, liberal lobbying groups like labor unions and trade associations are deliberately exempted. And based on its partisan track record, don’t expect this president’s IRS to lift a finger to scrutinize liberal 501(c)(4)s. Over at a Obama’s “Organizing for America,” the left-wing political propaganda will, no doubt, flow unabated.

These Orwellian regulations will prohibit conservative 501(c)(4) organizations from using words like “oppose,” “vote,” or “defeat.” Their timing, prior to a pivotal election, is no coincidence and provides yet another example of Obama’s using the IRS for “progressive” political gain.

Although these restrictions only apply to 501(c)(4) organizations for now, under a straightforward reading, they will also clearly apply to 501(c)(3) organizations in the near future.

Mat Staver, chairman of Liberty Counsel Action – one of the many conservative organizations to be silenced – commented on the breaking scandal: “One of the core liberties in our constitutional republic is the right to dissent,” he said. “But desperate to force his radical agenda on the American people, Barack Obama and his chosen political tool, the IRS, are now trying to selectively abridge this right, effectively silencing their political adversaries.”

http://www.rightsidenews.com/2014011233735/editorial/us-opinion-and-editorial/obama-moves-to-weaponize-irs.html
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January 13, 2014 4:53pm
flipper

PG…
Its cool. 🙂
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January 13, 2014 4:59pm
Rowan

Nostradamus
That fruitloop is one of the nastiest commentators on KB, and judges anyone who doesn’t agree with him, no apologies from me, yes I have a difference of opinion but I don’t judge others based on their beliefs and make snide insulting comments at him everytime I read his posts.
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January 13, 2014 5:23pm
Reid

The closer to the bone the greater the bullshit reaction.

Pete has it occurred that the reason we laugh is because you’re wrong, not because you’re getting “close to the bone?”

What if I told you I don’t really care about CC?

In that I like the thought of a conservative partner but I’m not fussed on anything in particular CC has said so far and I don’t really intend to make my mind up about him till later in the year when I’ve seen a bit more of him and his party.

Does that make any difference? Of course not.

It amuses me your byword is fair, reasonable and sensible because this seems to go out the window when your hero is under fire, then it doesn’t count, at all. Which says a lot about you, doesn’t it.

Too bad your byword wasn’t integrity, insight and intelligent comments. Then you might not get so many minuses, all the time, no matter what you say. OTOH, you still might, but it’s worth a shot, isn’t it. Suggest you give it a go and see what happens. (Hint: stop treating people as if they’re morons and when someone makes a negative comment about something you said, read it twice, lest you get the wrong end of the understanding stick. Again.)
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January 13, 2014 5:33pm
dirty harry

LOL..the greens and Hughes are going on a road show opposing Anadarko and deep sea drilling for oil…going on the road…driving??
Hypocrites of the highest order…what..does their car /bus run on water/air ?!!

Losers.
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January 13, 2014 5:44pm
Judith

@ Longknives (3,688 comments) says:
January 13th, 2014 at 12:26 pm

Should you be made to reveal how many of your friends have criminal convictions?

David Bain is by law regarded as an innocent person. Offenders, even those on life time parole are allowed to associate with him, as he has the same status as you and me (well I’m sure about me anyway).

I don’t know why you, who seems like an intelligent person, would think you have the right to know such details about another private person in society. To me is almost seems like you have delusions of grandeur. Bain is none of your business – who he associates with is no more your business, that who you associate with is mine. Get over it and grow some bloody balls and act like man instead of whinging kid who can’t get his own way.
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January 13, 2014 6:03pm
Judith

@ Nostradamus (2,618 comments) says:
January 13th, 2014 at 3:48 pm

If you think that comment was the nastiest, you obviously haven’t read many of Dennis’ comments, some of which would equal, if not exceed the example.
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January 13, 2014 6:06pm
mandk

It’s interesting to read the readers’ comments below the ODT website’s story about the anti-drilling protest yesterday.

I only spotted one comment supporting the protesters. The common view seems to be that the protesters are hypocritical and unrepresentative of public opinion as a whole.

There are evidently sensible folk in Dunedin, but they really need to kick the mayor, most of the councillors and the crypto-marxist greenies into touch.
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January 13, 2014 6:23pm
Nostradamus

Judith:

If you think that comment was the nastiest, you obviously haven’t read many of Dennis’ comments, some of which would equal, if not exceed the example.

Could you give me an example, please?

By the way, I didn’t say the comment was the nastiest – I said it was right up there with the nastiest. I just happen to think that it’s poor form to gleefully celebrate the misfortune of someone else – over nothing more than personal disagreements on a blog. I assume that Rowan and Dennis don’t know each other personally.

Taking a broader view of the matter, if you endorse what Rowan said, do you also endorse this behaviour? If not, how do you differentiate between the two sets of comments?
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January 13, 2014 6:29pm
Harriet

PG is pretty thoughtful and about right on the politics and issues surrounding Dunedin. On these I nearly always agree with him.

But parents not being allowed to smack their childen, and Colin Craig being ‘out of touch’, and an endemic of rape culture in NZ ?

No. Not at all do I agree with Pete on that.
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January 13, 2014 6:36pm
Pete George

LOL..the greens and Hughes are going on a road show opposing Anadarko and deep sea drilling for oil…going on the road…driving??

Dunedin yesterday, Wellington today, Auckland Thursday. Campaigning on us and on oil.
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January 13, 2014 6:39pm
Nostradamus

Pete George:

I assume you’ve read Gareth Hughes’ opinion piece (available here)?

His conclusion:

The smarter alternative to risky deep sea oil drilling would be to look to strengths and focus on clean energy and protecting our valuable ‘100% Pure’ brand. [unsubstantiated opinion] The Pure Advantage group of successful business people say there is a $6 trillion clean energy, green tech opportunity we are at risk of missing a slice of [citation required]. Price Waterhouse Coopers say New Zealand has a potential $22b annual opportunity in clean energy [citation required] and research shows there are many more jobs created in clean energy than in oil [citation required]. New Zealand’s future isn’t in hoping someone finds oil deep in our waters and they don’t leave too much of a mess as they export the profits offshore; New Zealand’s future is in clean energy which will deliver a richer New Zealand [unsubstantiated opinion.

Once again Gareth – and the Greens – don’t come out and say whether these clean energy jobs would be self-supporting. That’s self-supporting as in “don’t require any government funding or cross-subsidisation”. And they also fail to explain how clean energy products would replace oil-based products that we currently take for granted in our daily lives.
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January 13, 2014 7:03pm
nasska

Reid

Mr Craig as the leader of his own party has the luxury of opening his mouth & letting the Northwester blow his tongue around. In the unlikely event that he doesn’t scare the horses, makes it into Parliament & somehow gets his pro child bashing bottom line accepted as a condition of coalition, what then?

I would like see discussed what it is that you & your fellow Godwhacks actually want. Is it to be:

1) Simple reinstatement of Section59.

2) Open slather as instanced in the OT.

3) Some state defined limits on what constitutes “reasonable” discipline.

4) Something else???

The fact that nearly 90% of voting Kiwis don’t like the repeal of S59 is brought up ad nauseam. Little thought seems to be given as to what happens should your lot be successful.
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January 13, 2014 7:06pm
Pete George

I pushed one of the local Greens (and a councillor) to clarify what they actually meant in the weekend and she revealed a bit more of what’s behind their campaign but she backed off specifics. I don’t know if they actually don’t know how their ideals can be achieved or they don’t want to say. The crux of it seems to be that unless we limit fossil fuel use to 1/3 of what is currently discovered we will have a climate change catastrophe. Based on the 2006 Stern report.

But no idea of how to actually achieve it apart from vagueness as per Hughes. They come across passionate but hopelessly impractical.
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January 13, 2014 7:11pm
Pete George

Yesterday I asked Cr MacTavish:
What if a business boom on the back of gas fields enabled Dunedin to invest in better energy efficiency and less fossil fuel dependence?

Her reply:

As stated above, we can only afford to burn 1/3rd of what we’ve already found as a globe, Pete, to transition to clean energy. There’s no point going exploring for more – we can’t burn them. No point having all the clean infrastructure in the world, on a fried planet that we can’t live on.

I responded:
I want you to tell me what you want to happen. And whether that should be Dunedin’s aim when the rest of the world does much less.

I’ve been quite clear about my understanding of what the science and analysis says is necessary for Dunedin (and the rest of the world) to have a decent future. My aspirations for the city are in line with that science and that analysis, as on the evidence available to me I think it would be negligent to aim for anything less. Pete, Im not sure that continuing this conversation on my Facebook page is particularly helpful. You obviously disagree with me, which you are clearly completely entitled to, but I don’t think that people want to wade through a conversation of this length. If you’d like to continue the dialogue I suggest you email me – jmactavi@dcc.govt.nz – but I’m not convinced I can add anything further.

I disagree with you on some things but far from on everything. Our main disagreement is how to achieve an ideal. I thought it was important to know what one of our councillors bases a strong anti-oil campaign on.

It’s a safe climate future campaign, which recognises the need for an end to additional oil and gas exploration. And yep, happy to have explained myself, but I think I’ve repeated myself a few times now

I had another go after that but she bailed out.

Climate change may (or may not) have serious adverse effects, but so would some of the proposed remedies.

They are convinced what they are doing is necessary and right, but I still don’t know how they hope to achieve it except by opposing things and trying to get them banned.
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January 13, 2014 7:18pm
OneTrack

Pete – Pol Pot was convinced what he was doing was necessary and right. Stalin, sending millions to the gulag, was convinced what he was doing was necessary and right.

Zealots are always convinced what they are doing was necessary and right. Its up to more practical heads to avoid the more negative results of their one-eyed approach to things, that in many cases they either dont understand ie economics and human nature, or they do understand and they just dont care ie if you disagree with them, you are the enemy to be removed.
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January 13, 2014 7:51pm
Pauleastbay

Fucking hell

Fucking fucking hell

Fucking fucking fucking fucking hell.
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January 13, 2014 7:52pm
nasska

That’s one way of putting it Paul. 🙂
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January 13, 2014 7:57pm
Longknives

“To me is almost seems like you have delusions of grandeur”
Delusions of grandeur? I’m not the fucking paperboy who is claiming that he would have been an International Opera star!
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January 13, 2014 7:57pm
Pauleastbay

Delusions of grandeur? I’m not the fucking paperboy who is claiming that he would have been an International Opera star!

An early contender for comment of the year
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January 13, 2014 8:01pm
nasska

If my experience with women has taught me anything….

….it’s that Jack was most likely pushed down the hill.
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January 13, 2014 8:05pm
Judith

@ Longknives (3,690 comments) says:
January 13th, 2014 at 7:57 pm

Yet another demonstration of your ignorance in the Bain case. It was NOT the paper boy that claimed he could have been an international opera star. That issue was raised in court in evidence by ‘the paper boys’ singing teacher.

Dear oh dear, and there is Pauleastbay celebrating your ignorance – how appropriate!
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January 13, 2014 8:10pm
Pauleastbay

Of course the music teachers comment was met with vehement denials and he was told not to be so stupid as his comments were just trying to make Mr Bain look good which of course was something that the defense wanted to avoid at all costs.

In fact I heard that the music teacher pestered the fuck out of the defense team to let him appear. They finally just gave in to shut the lunatic up so they could move on with their defense plan apologising to th Court for wasting its time with this little diversion.

For fucks sake Longknives , don’t you know anything. Judith is to Jurisprudence as the All Blacks are to rugby
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January 13, 2014 8:20pm
Nostradamus

Judith:

I think this link sets the record straight:

Bain: I wanted life in opera

David Bain believes he might have become an international opera star on a par with Jonathan Lemalu.

He made the comparison in his claim for compensation after spending 13 years in prison on five counts of murder, for which he was acquitted in a 2009 retrial.

He said when he first started singing lessons in 1992 his teacher told him he had a wonderful voice and could one day create a valuable career for himself.

“I have been told that I had the potential to have a career as successful as the New Zealand opera singer Jonathan Lemalu,” he wrote in an eight-page affidavit, under the sub-heading “loss of earnings and future opportunities”.
…

Right. So this is all related to Bain’s claim for loss of earnings and future opportunities. And the basis for the claim is a comment by Bain’s teacher “when he first started singing lessons in 1992″. That puts a slightly different slant on things, doesn’t it?

Edit: Rowan, do you automatically thumbs-down any comment you perceive to be anti-Bain, or do you actually have the ability to engage in critical reasoning.
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January 13, 2014 8:21pm
Rowan

Judith @ 6.03

“I don’t know why you, who seems like an intelligent person”
Whatever gave you that thought? nothing on any of the KB threads suggests to me that LK has any form of ‘intelligence’.
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January 13, 2014 8:21pm
Pauleastbay

Rowan , Judith

Sorry are you guys being serious?, my mistake I thought we were at The Civilian and we were playing “beyond satire”
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January 13, 2014 8:28pm
Pauleastbay

Sorry Judith

Jurisprudence – is the study and theory of law.
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January 13, 2014 8:32pm
Rowan

Nostradamus
I don’t actually know or care what you think about Bain and am not going to judge you for it. I thumbs down arrogant know-alls who try to pass themselves as ‘experts’ when in reality and judging the quality of there reasoning are as thick as pig shit, and/or can’t substantiate anything they say. This is not limited to Bain, I dislike KB trolls like Kea and Big Blouse who spout of there religous hate spew all over GD or religous threads and pretty much anyone who judges others on their individual ‘views’ whatever the topic.
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January 13, 2014 8:38pm
Reid

Little thought seems to be given as to what happens should your lot be successful.

nasska, who’s “your lot?”

“Godwhacks?”

If so, you should know I don’t mix my politics with my religion. After all, Jesus clearly separated the world from God and that’s also what I do.

With respect to nanny state interfering in raising children, my position is get out of it, now, and never dare come in again. This has nothing to do with my religion and everything to do with my understanding of what this slice-the-elephant move on the part of the commies represents. You may recall the soviets were very keen on doing things to disrupt family freedoms and you might have observed wherever communism is and has been practiced that was a hallmark of their execrable regimes. You probably don’t know why they do that but I do. And it’s a very insidious evil that they seek to impose.

In and of itself anti-smacking is trivial, but it’s a foot in the door, just like gay marriage is. And it’s disguised as all their feet in the door are, as human wights. They do this to appeal to the well-meaning but naive amongst us who fall for the meme, relying on their ignorance of the commies real motives, which are collectively to destroy the integrity of the family unit so that individuals lose their most critical support mechanism and are forced, gradually over time, over generations, to become, more and more and more and more and more and more and more dependent on the state.

And note this has nothing to do at all in any way with “Godwhacks.” Does it.
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January 13, 2014 8:44pm
Johnboy

Photo’s of famous Tenors:

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=famous+tenors&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=E5nTUsPWBs6HkQWQ5ICADQ&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1105&bih=600

Photo’s of David Bain:

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=famous+tenors&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=E5nTUsPWBs6HkQWQ5ICADQ&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1105&bih=600#q=Photo%27s+of+David+Bain&tbm=isch

I rest my case your Honour!! 🙂
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January 13, 2014 8:46pm
Nookin

Are we seeing the transmogrification of Godwins Law?
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January 13, 2014 8:46pm
Pauleastbay

As always JB , the voice of reason and sanity.

The similarities between a young Domingo and Bain are startling, without your erudition I for one would have been ignorant of this fact.

Judith why have you stopped playing?, has Nostradamus @8.21 buggered up your obbession?, come on you don’t need him to make a fool of you , you’ve done it for much of today on your own
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January 13, 2014 9:01pm
Pauleastbay

Is it easy to guess that this is my first day back at work and I am sitting in a motel on my own filling in the evening until its a nearly grownups time to go to bed or not?
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January 13, 2014 9:02pm
Johnboy

Why don’t you pop over to the unit next door with a bottle of wine and share it with that big-titted sales rep from the personal lubricant company PEB? 🙂
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January 13, 2014 9:07pm
nasska

Reid

It is inevitable that a religious belief will produce a set of ‘morals’ & these will influence your political leanings. No sale.

….”With respect to nanny state interfering in raising children, my position is get out of it, now, and never dare come in again”….

I concede that part of your argument has merit…..socialism is destroying family integrity. I still find it hard to accept that you would leave dependant children to the unregulated mercy of parents not worthy of having kids. The lives of misery some will live are going to result in some badly screwed up citizens of the future.
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January 13, 2014 9:07pm
Johnboy

Hell. He must have taken my advice! 🙂
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January 13, 2014 9:27pm
nasska

Consider the tedium promised by rehashing the Bain case JB. If you’d suggested that he had a wank using a mixture of tobasco sauce & sand as lubricant he probably would have gone along with it. 🙂
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January 13, 2014 9:32pm
Harriet

“…..I still find it hard to accept that you would leave dependant children to the unregulated mercy of parents not worthy of having kids. The lives of misery some will live are going to result in some badly screwed up citizens of the future….”

The government has only just started supporting families – WFF ect.

Prior to that they simply did nothing positive. Infact, they promoted hard line feminism ect which was detrimental to family and children – divorce – custodial mums and not fathers – single working mums – ect.

The government needs to keep publicly announcing that children with a mum and dad do best. And keep praising that standard. It will then become a standard for parents to aspire to.

The problem with no faults divorce is that Married people who are having ‘problems’ then concentrate on the negatives rather than the positives of being Married. That’s not to say that divorce should be made illegal – but that it is wrong to get divorced over such minor matters.

Hardly any people get divorced because of physical violence – they get divorced because they see it as being far easier than being responsable in Marriage. That’s the opposite situation of what grandparents had to endure in their Marriages – leaving was looked upon as being irresponsable.

There are social services for alcohol, gambling, mental health ect.
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January 13, 2014 9:36pm
Nostradamus

Rowan:

I thumbs down arrogant know-alls who try to pass themselves as ‘experts’ when in reality and judging the quality of there reasoning are as thick as pig shit, and/or can’t substantiate anything they say.

Have you ever thumbed-down Johnboy? He seems to have attracted a secret admirer in recent times – not sure he enjoys the minus-one-on-one attention though 🙂
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January 13, 2014 9:45pm
publicwatchdog

Here you go ‘Big Bruv’ and other Kiwibloggers who simply ‘howl at the moon’, and whine at those of us who have the guts and gumption take action which cannot be ignored?

URGENT ‘Open Letter to NZ SFO CEO Julie Read, and General Manager for Fraud and Corruption, Nick Paterson
January 13, 2014 | Author Penny

13 January 2014
Julie Read
CEO/ Director
NZ Serious Fraud Office

Nick Paterson
General Manager
Fraud and Corruption
NZ Serious Fraud Office

‘Open Letter’

For your urgent consideration:

Please be advised that if Lisa Prager and myself (Penny Bright), have not had it confirmed by yourselves, by email, by 5pm Tuesday 14 January 2014, that the SFO will re-evaluate our following bribery and corruption complaint, then without further notice, proceedings for a private prosecution on this matter will be filed in the Auckland District Court on Wednesday 15 January 2014.

Please be advised that no such response by email, by 5pm Tuesday 14 January 2014, will be taken as a ’NO’ to our request.
Yours sincerely,

Penny Bright
………………….
………………….
Lisa Prager

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/urgent-open-letter-to-nz-sfo-ceo-julie-read-and-general-manager-for-fraud-and-corruption-nick-paterson/
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January 13, 2014 9:50pm
Reid

I still find it hard to accept that you would leave dependant children to the unregulated mercy of parents not worthy of having kids. The lives of misery some will live are going to result in some badly screwed up citizens of the future.

Meanwhile in the real world precisely nothing has changed and bad parents continue to be bad parents. Don’t they.

Just like they always were going to be, with or without the law.

So, no sale on your justification nasska. You can kid yourself it’s made a jot or it will ever make a jot of difference, but the real world will continue to give you the lie.

And I knew that this would turn out to be the case, since it was never about holding bad parents to account. You and Pete can continue if you like to kid yourselves you’re both being fair, sensible and reasonable if you like, it’s a free world, but if you’re going to make up fantasies in your own heads about what the law you support is achieving, then I suggest you attempt to make your fantasy fit the reality we all see around us, lest some of us begin to think you and Pete have gone all peculiar.
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January 13, 2014 9:51pm
Judith

Pauleastbay (4,940 comments) says:
January 13th, 2014 at 8:20 pm
In fact I heard that the music teacher pestered the fuck out of the defense team to let him appear.

You are such a source of ignorance. Bain’s music teacher was not male.

@ Nostradamus (2,622 comments) says:
January 13th, 2014 at 8:21 pm

Your comments change nothing. David Bain was told by a person qualified to do so, that he had a voice that was comparable of an international scale. Whether he would have made it as a singing star or not, is impossible to tell, however, it is relevant to his claim because it is an example of what ‘might have been’ had he not been wrongfully convicted.

To support that claim, and to demonstrate it was not just fanciful thinking, his example was supported by the testimony of a qualified person.

As it is unlikely that neither you, nor any of the witch sniffers on here have ever heard David Bain sing, or are qualified singing instructors, I rather think your comments are somewhat pathetic, and more indication of the desperation involved in the JFRB conspiracist discourse.
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January 13, 2014 10:00pm
Judith

@ Pauleastbay (4,940 comments) says:
January 13th, 2014 at 9:01 pm

Unlike you Paul, I have a life that does not revolve round KB or the internet. If you haven’t learned by now, its time you did – no one intimidates me into doing anything, secondly, pathetic little weasels like you, who think they know it all, and in fact know nothing of any substance and therefore have to resort to bullying to make themselves feel better, are more of a joke, than a source of annoyance to me.

Your knowledge on the Bain case is pathetic, Nostradamus argument is equally pathetic and digresses from the issue you raised, which was that Bain thought he could have been an international singing star – which he never said he did – he stated he had been told… which in no way suggest he ‘thought’ he could be.
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January 13, 2014 10:06pm
Rowan

Wouldn’t normally bother Nostradamus as apart from a few general comments here and there he seldom contributes to the threads. Am certainly not his ‘secret admirer’ as you put it.
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January 13, 2014 10:07pm
nasska

….” lest some of us begin to think you and Pete have gone all peculiar.”….

I admit that I haven’t quite been feeling myself lately Reid but rest assured…..I’m certain that Pete is in robust health. 🙂
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January 13, 2014 10:08pm
Judith

@ Rowan (1,410 comments) says:
January 13th, 2014 at 8:21 pm

It is all to do with relativity Rowan. I was comparing him to my goldfish, to whom PEB appears to be ‘relatively more intelligent’.
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January 13, 2014 10:11pm
Nostradamus

Judith:

As it is unlikely that neither you, nor any of the witch sniffers on here have ever heard David Bain sing, or are qualified singing instructors, I rather think your comments are somewhat pathetic, and more indication of the desperation involved in the JFRB conspiracist discourse.

Wow. I mean wow!

What’s a “witch sniffer”? And where’s your evidence that I’m “involved in the JFRB conspiracist discourse”?

Nostradamus argument is equally pathetic and digresses from the issue you raised, which was that Bain thought he could have been an international singing star – which he never said he did – he stated he had been told… which in no way suggest he ‘thought’ he could be.

No, you completely missed the point of my comment, but that’s hardly surprising.
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January 13, 2014 10:14pm
Judith

@ Nostradamus (2,623 comments) says:
January 13th, 2014 at 10:14 pm

Please note the ‘JFRB conspiracist discourse’. You do not have to be involved in the ‘ JFRB discourse’ to be arguing it. Your comments mirror those of the group, even if you are not involved.

Take a look at Paul – that will answer your first question.

No I didn’t miss the point of your argument, I simply concentrated on my initial point
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January 13, 2014 10:18pm
Rowan

Judith
Comparing some of the intelligence of several of the nutjobs here with the intelligence of my cat, I’d have to say that he wins (the cat that is)
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January 13, 2014 10:22pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Nostradamus has raised the bar: critical thinking is now the prospective ‘quality’ of a voice when singing, others have also contributed – the Bain case may now be solved by closely observing who went to David’s wedding along with perishing the thought that dear denny might have fallen out of the sky on the same day – perhaps he was preparing for a fly over mission so that Aunt Fanny could pull her chamber pot from under the bed, take the throne and consider who might have been among the reported 15 family members. How jolly critical things are getting.
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January 13, 2014 10:39pm
goldnkiwi

Anecdotally many of us are aware how ‘close’ prisoners get to others that they are incarcerated with.
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January 13, 2014 10:45pm
Nostradamus

Judith:

Please note the ‘JFRB conspiracist discourse’. You do not have to be involved in the ‘ JFRB discourse’ to be arguing it. Your comments mirror those of the group, even if you are not involved.
…
No I didn’t miss the point of your argument, I simply concentrated on my initial point.

Here’s some information for you:

– I don’t have a vested interest in the Bain debate (and, in fact, have generally refrained from contributing to the debate);
– I argue each issue (Bain or any other topic) on its own merits; and
– I think my comments should be assessed on their own merits, not judged by comparison with similar comments (so you say) made by others with whom you seem to have a personal vendetta.

And, yes, I think you did miss the point of my argument:

– Bain is claiming compensation.
– One element of his compensation claim relates to loss of earnings and future opportunities.
– The loss of earnings and future opportunities is said to relate, among other things, to his opera singing potential.
– The factual basis for his opera singing potential (according to the article) was a subjective assessment by Bain’s singing teacher.
– You said ” That issue was raised in court in evidence by ‘the paper boys’ singing teacher.” That’s not entirely correct. The issue was raised in evidence by Bain, relying, in part, on supporting evidence from his singing teacher.
– The singing teacher’s subjective assessment was, on Bain’s own evidence, made when he first started singing lessons in 1992. That, in my view, is relevant. It’s no less relevant just because you choose, for your own reasons, to concentrate on another point (and, in case you missed the point, one of my purposes for providing the link was to substantiate your comment).
– The article, perhaps unsurprisingly, doesn’t explain what special expertise the singing teacher has (compared to other singing teachers or opera professionals) in identifying opera singers with potential star quality. That’s not to say the singing teacher doesn’t have that special expertise. I assume the matter was addressed, one way or another, in the compensation claim.
– In any event, Bain seeks to rely on this evidence in support of this claim for loss of earnings and future opportunities.
– The evidence will presumably be assessed on the basis of normal legal principles for determining compensation – including, in this case, expectation loss.

Of course, I suspect you’ll disagree with some or all of the above, simply because you perceive me to be anti-Bain.

Nostalgia:

Nostradamus has raised the bar: critical thinking is now the prospective ‘quality’ of a voice when singing, others have also contributed

Hey Nostalgia, I don’t normally say this sort of thing, but fuck off, and come back when you learn some manners and feel able to engage in proper debate. I’m not interested in being the target of drive-by smears from the likes of you.
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January 13, 2014 10:53pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Actually windbag David Bain is auctioning a Judicial Review, so your comments about singing are only critical of your failure to keep up
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January 13, 2014 11:04pm
Nostradamus

Nostalgia:

Did you miss what I said?

Let me repeat: fuck off and come back when you learn some manners and feel able to engage in proper debate (instead of directing drive-by smears at those who you perceive to be anti-Bain).

In the course of nine years of commenting on Kiwiblog, this is probably only about the third time I’ve told someone to fuck off, so consider yourself in a special category.
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January 13, 2014 11:06pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Should have been ‘actioning.’
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January 13, 2014 11:08pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Well it was rather convoluted Nostradamus, off the subject, and a serious threat to sanity – but I’m sure you know what you think you mean, well maybe.

However, your considered thoughts could be taken into account at the JR, maybe after hours in a coffee shop somewhere where all parties might burst into song.
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January 13, 2014 11:14pm
Nostradamus

Nostalgia:

Oh – another drive-by smear from you?

So, because you perceive me to be anti-Bain, you think attack is the best form of defence.

And, when you talk about all parties bursting into song, what about this?

The two jurors – a man and a woman – who were seen to congratulate Bain after the verdicts and who went to his celebratory party were the same two who spent the last three weeks of the trial paying little attention to the evidence and closing addresses. They giggled and wrote messages to each other.

Did that happen?

By the way, I suspect I know more about the law and practice of judicial review than you, so spare me the patronising tone.
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January 13, 2014 11:24pm
Nostalgia-NZ

I’m sure you do Nostradamus, if you could simply explain why Robin Bain had blood smears on his palms I would happily you leave you to your self congratulations.
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January 13, 2014 11:28pm
Nostradamus

Nostalgia:

So, let’s try again, did two jurors attend Bain’s celebratory party or not?

And, as for your other question, that has what to do with the judicial review process exactly?

the Bain case may now be solved by closely observing who went to David’s wedding along with perishing the thought that dear denny might have fallen out of the sky on the same day – perhaps he was preparing for a fly over mission so that Aunt Fanny could pull her chamber pot from under the bed, take the throne and consider who might have been among the reported 15 family members.

Fuck – and you call me a serious threat to sanity…
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January 13, 2014 11:34pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Good to see you’ve dropped the prospects of opera singing as the subject. If you could just explain those blood smears on Robin’s palms, that would be on topic.
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January 13, 2014 11:41pm
Nostradamus

Hmmm, if you have a point to make about the blood smears on Robin Bain’s palms, then make it.

And, despite your best diversionary efforts, the opera singing prospects are relevant to the compensation claim. Otherwise why would Bain have mentioned it in his affidavit? So, in other words, quite on-topic. And it was certainly on-topic when I discussed it with Paul and Judith earlier.

Anyway, I’m happy to leave you to talk to yourself about your “Aunt Fanny” and “chamber pot” nonsense.
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January 14, 2014 12:04am
Viking2

Thought i was seeing things. Aucklands underground on the go?

‘No Pants Subway Ride’ takes off

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/destinations/9603740/No-Pants-Subway-Ride-takes-off
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January 14, 2014 6:27am
Viking2

Oh no, seems that I wasn’t.

Mr Brown and his advisers are considering a new year speech with a focus on public transport, in which Mr Brown wants to make a start on the city rail link in 2016.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11185833
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January 14, 2014 6:33am
flipper

Yesterday I told dumbdamas:

“If it was the mad dentist, I wish him well in his recovery, hope that the experience will be salutary, and that he will (now) actually make a careful and detailed study of all issues on which he professes to know more than a properly briefed and instructed Jury, The Privy Council, and an independent Judicial Officer of the highest international standing.”,

I now extend application of the last lines of that quotation to all of the ignorant fools who decide matters on prejudice and institutional bias.

This thread debate started because someone in Police or Corrections(probation) gave details of one of Mr Bain’s wedding guests, to at least two media outlets, in an unconscionable attempt to discredit Mr Bain, his bride and her family.

To divert attention from those appalling actions, the witchsniffers and their apologists, have sought to extend the debate into matters such as the blood smears on Robin Bain’s hands (Yep, by your lights dumbdamas Robin Bain applied them after he killed himself in order “incriminate” David Bain). Moreover, one person’s (not Mr Bain) view of Mr Bain’s potential as a singer somehow suggests impropriety on his part and, ergo, guilt of charges rejected by : …a properly briefed and instructed Jury [in record time], The Privy Council, and an independent Judicial Officer of the highest international standing. ”

Dumbdamasses, all!
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January 14, 2014 7:56am
Nostradamus

Flipper:

dumbdamas

Thanks for the drive-by smear. Clearly, because you perceive me to be anti-Bain, attack is the best form of defence.

(Yep, by your lights dumbdamas Robin Bain applied them after he killed himself in order “incriminate” David Bain).

Hmmm… I challenge you to show me where I have ever commented on this matter. A word search for “palm” (at the time of writing) shows four matches on this thread:

– Nostalgia-NZ (January 13th, 2014 at 10:22 am)
– Nostalgia-NZ (January 13th, 2014 at 11:28 pm)
– Nostalgia-NZ (January 13th, 2014 at 11:41 pm)
– Me (January 14th, 2014 at 12:04 am) – but only in the context of asking Nostalgia if he had a point to make, and if so, inviting him to make it.

I guess that makes you the fuckwit. Toodle-doo to you!
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January 14, 2014 8:10am
nickb

I do admire your efforts against the Bainiacs Nosty
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January 14, 2014 8:16am
Richard Treadgold

flipper (yesterday at 3:29 pm)

Well and succinctly put. I generally agree.

Regarding your point 6, there is actually easy, free and public access to raw weather data from CliFlo at http://cliflo.niwa.co.nz/ Just register and start sucking it up.

NIWA have never revealed the actual calculations Salinger used in producing either the original “seven station series” (7SS) or any updates, but the point is moot since they “reconstructed” the 7SS in 2010. At that point this odd affair became more curious because, although the data and (new) workings were laid bare, NIWA, declaring their “methodology” followed international practice, strangely failed to cite a single reference to it. In other words, nobody else has mentioned or used their “internationally accepted” methods. So why do they make that claim? They practically thump the table and yell at us that their methods are internationally recognised; without evidence they persuade the judge to echo their claim; they announce it to the Herald; they do everything except give us a single instance of international recognition.

In addition, NIWA claims to use the Rhoades & Salinger method but Bob D proved conclusively that they did not. Mullan, I think it was, claimed Bob followed R&S “too strictly” — surely a laughable criticism from or of any scientist. In departing in substantial measure from the method specified carefully by R&S, how can they claim to have followed it?

Strange, even odd, but not many people seem to care so I suppose they win.

Thanks for the plug.
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January 14, 2014 8:54am
Nostalgia-NZ

Certainly Nostradamus was not talking about blood smears on Robin’s palms I was. However, arguing about the merits of how good a singer David may or may not have been if he hadn’t been imprisoned is cart before the horse stuff. The fundamentals have to be resolved in terms of the JR – re the innocence or otherwise of David Bain in order that a decision about compensation can be made. That is on hold, so we are back to the scene of Robin’s death and the blood smears found on his palms – they being indicative, along with other evidence that he killed his family, something which goes to the guilt of innocence of David Bain. In a day where it was being considered who may have gone to a wedding, became suddenly relevant to that inquiry, along with opera singing, two members of the Jury having a drink with Counsel which Nostradamus raised, is all nonsense. The blood on the palms tells a story that singing, or what a juror may or may not have done, does not.
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January 14, 2014 9:18am
Rowan

It appears many of the narrow minded bigots here are jealous of Paul Wilson and miffed that they missed out on an invite to Bains wedding.
Small things amuse small minds, like many of the commentators here (bar a few)
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January 14, 2014 10:16am
nickb

Rowan, I wouldn’t be caught dead at David Bain’s wedding (literally).
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January 14, 2014 10:24am
goldnkiwi

Am I the only one that would be uncomfortable having my children taught by a teacher that voluntarily kept such company?
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January 14, 2014 1:07pm

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