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December 8, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 8 December 2013

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hj

Response to comment on “John Key shouldn’t be going to Nelson Mandela’s funeral ”

“Like slavery and apartheid, poverty is not natural. It is people who have made poverty and tolerated poverty, and it is people who will overcome it. And overcoming poverty is not a gesture of charity. It is an act of justice. It is the protection of a fundamental human right, the right to dignity and a decent life”-Nelson Mandela.

…………………..
You can observe poverty in the lab when bacteria are placed in agar on a petri dish. Poverty is very natural.
The Left don’t understand nature rather they use nature as a political gamut (we are Green all over).

A degree of racism is natural also thanks to oxytocin,the hormone that bonds a mother and baby as it also bonds people of the same ethnicity (I’m not sure where the radical left fit- racial masochist in group?).

The whites saw the blacks as inferior and I can understand that as casting your eye around Africa it is hard to find a good role model African state. The left would counter by saying that is due to exploitation and capture of the wealth pointing to a Maori economy before it was dominated by whites.

Apartheid was wrong (people should have equal rights) but as we have seen (finally) the Soviet block fell and today it is also deemed wrong.

That brings me to the great victory roll of John Minto, Hone Harawira, Annette Sykes, Martin Bradbury…. and your Marxist (I presume it is) paradigm of how it all works.
You had a point about apartheid and you are right that their is injustice today but you have an over simplistic notion of an identified evil (capitalism) and a good (the down trodden) that you overlook natural processes. You will just be deemed another wrong.

As with the Maori economy the whites will get their comeuppance, we will see a NZ/Aotearoa dominated by Asians in the future and you will have helped by promoting diversity. We will be poorer because you support immigration (like the petri dish example above). Join a group of real estate investors on a tour. Look at the physical realities of how the bulk of the pryramid in Aotearoa/NZ will live (not Sue Bradfords house).

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/12/07/john-key-shouldnt-be-going-to-nelson-mandelas-funeral/
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December 8, 2013 8:05am
Pete George

Ironically David Shearer’s strengths are being utilised by the National Government for the good of the country, in contrast to Labour’s disastrous elevation of Shearer to a role he was totally unsuited to and didn’t like. Newstalk ZB reports:

David Shearer is back on his old stomping ground in New York, pushing New Zealand’s case for a seat on the Security Council.

He’s doing so at the request of Foreign Minister Murray McCully, who’s asked him to tap his old UN and diplomatic contacts.

Mr Shearer says he’s working in the country’s best interests, and a bipartisan view is needed.

This was a smart move by McCully who has recognised Shearer’s strengths, and it’s good to see Shearer putting the interests of the country before the petty politics many opposition MPs indulge in.
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December 8, 2013 8:09am
wreck1080

“In the wake of the Roastbusters scandal, thousands call for change to our sex assault laws.”

This is pathetic, rape/sexual assault is ALREADY illegal. While the roastbusters may have committed rape (absolutely unproven to date), the issue to me is one of enforcement of the law rather than the law itself.
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December 8, 2013 8:20am
Paulus

Why am I getting tired of reading about all sorts of people who feel that I should owe them money.
Napier want a Taxpayers handouts to prop up their ageing Art Deco buildings.
Wellington Council wants to give ratepayers money to property owners do the same thing.
And of course Christchurch want everything despite billions of taxpayers money already having been paid with more in line – expected to be $30,000,000,000 eventually.
But is that enough nah – I am owed, like Maori.
Why do these people believe that the ordinary Taxpayer should stump up for them continually.
We are a sad society of wannas in the view that I expect everybody else to pay for me as I am owed.
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December 8, 2013 8:24am
Paulus

Isn’t Shearer in New York looking for another back in the UN. – Helen/Heather will help him so he can get out before the next election.
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December 8, 2013 8:27am
Sofia

There has been in General debate some questioning of whether Prime Minister Key or the Governor General should attend Nelson Mandela’s funeral.

World leaders are preparing to converge in unprecedented numbers on South Africa for Nelson Mandela’s funeral, likely to be one of the biggest global gatherings of powerful people in modern history.

As South Africa embarked on nine days of mourning, comparisons were being drawn with earlier mammoth funeral ceremonies, of Pope John Paul II, Princess Diana, President John F Kennedy and Winston Churchill. But Mandela’s appeal was even broader, cutting across religious divides and the usual geopolitical barriers between north and south, east and west.
Barack Obama will fly in, with his wife Michelle, as well as former US presidents.

Since “the convergence of such an array of presidents and prime ministers should also offer unusual diplomatic opportunities” is Key, the Prime Minister of New Zealand a better representative, or the Governor General, the United Kingdom’s Queen’s representative in New Zealand, since Britain is expected to send senior royals, presumably Prince Charles, and possibly Prince William as well as the prime minister, David Cameron?
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December 8, 2013 8:33am
Keeping Stock

Matt McCarten is banging the anti-asset sales drum again today in his Herald on Sunday column. But it’s so full of factual errors and political rhetoric, we have felt compelled to correct him 😀

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/12/quote-of-day-8-december-2013.html
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December 8, 2013 8:37am
skyblue

Gee I am over this Mandela death carry on.
Back in the real world a man has had a knife embedded in his head in South Auckland.
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December 8, 2013 8:39am
RF

McCarten is just a one eye lefty git. A pathetic individual who dribbles on about the evil National Govt. Get a life.
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December 8, 2013 8:50am
OneTrack

“and it’s good to see Shearer putting the interests of the country before the petty politics many opposition MPs indulge in”

He has never really fitted in with Labour. He must have believed their rhetoric once.
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December 8, 2013 8:53am
Jack5

The mayhem from synthetic drugs continues. The “fix” of Possum Pete Dunne, supported by most MP’s, has so far failed miserably. To adapt an old saying, our politicians couldn’t disorganise a piss-up in a brewery.

From Stuff:

Dr Paul Gee, Christchurch Hospital emergency specialist, said the number of patients being admitted with symptoms including panic attacks, heart palpitations, intractable vomiting and psychosis after taking synthetic cannabis had not fallen since the Psychoactive Substances Act took effect in August.

Pete George, you’ve hitched up to the wrong wagon.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9490649/Man-in-coma-after-drink-spiked
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December 8, 2013 9:07am
duggledog

Skyblue

Yes and it looks like a homicide in Linton too. But the crime rate is coming down!
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December 8, 2013 9:08am
Pauleastbay

David Moyes, you’re making Mike Hesson look like Alex Fergusson.

Newcastle 1 – Man U 0
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December 8, 2013 9:08am
Keeping Stock

@ Pauleastbay – I’d love to add fuel to the fire, but Arsenal hasn’t played this weekend yet 😀
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December 8, 2013 9:21am
Jack5

Re hj’s 8.05 post:

Surely, HJ, you’re surely not responding in Kiwiblog to something on the left-wing drivel site of the king of ravers, Martyn Bradbury. Disinfect your keyboard! What a mistake to give Bradbury five readers in one weekend!

What a joke though – send Harawira, of “white motherfuckers” fame, to Mandela’s funeral.
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December 8, 2013 9:25am
Kea

Anti-fracking clashes in Romania as activists break into Chevron site

Hundreds of protesters have broken into a Chevron site after the US oil giant resumed its search for shale gas in northeast Romania. RT’s Lucy Kafanov reports from the scene, where clashes ensued as riot police started streaming in.

Some 400 people gathered on Saturday in the village of Pungesti, according to local media.

RT’s Lucy Kafanov reports that the demonstration kicked off quite peacefully with the protesters chanting “Chevron go home.”

You would think these people would have had enough of socialism and a lack of technology in their country ! What is the bet the handful of protesters were from better off families ?

http://rt.com/news/chevron-fracking-protest-clashes-884/
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December 8, 2013 9:27am
Jack5

Re Pete George’s 8.09 post about Shearer in the US campaigning for an NZ seat on the Security Council:

David Shearer’s strengths are being utilised by the National Government for the good of the country

The good of the country? You mean for the good of NZ’s handful of career diplomats, and for the good of our small-country politicians’ egos. A seat on the Security Council is fuck all use to NZ.

Shearer would be doing more good for the country if he were lobbying for a sane American approach to copyright in its bid for a big free trade agreement.

The most we got out of the last successful campaign for a Security Council seat was thousands of Somali immigrants. They’ve been a great asset to the country, haven’t they? Not even an athletic medal, and some, hailed by the MSM as “kiwis” fighting for Al Qaeda in Syria, and everyone wondering what the freaks will do if they return to NZ.
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December 8, 2013 9:31am
duggledog

Good post at 8.05 hj

Your last para. I agree with wholeheartedly. The great irony of all the socialists’ hard work over the last three or four decades is now quickly becoming apparent, as workers, we are regarded as weak and slow by immigrants from China, India etc. Many Kiwis and especially Maori just don’t know what work is, and even if they do, they expect their holidays, stats, maternity, sick leave & so on to be enshrined as of right. Filipinos don’t expect any of those things but by crikey they’re happy to have it!

Successive governments wouldn’t and still won’t touch the massive welfare state because of the widespread expectation, and so the process continues. To balance the books the only answer can be ever more growth and immigration, changing everything we love about little old NZ. I’m not sure NZ will become dominated by Asians; just ‘non New Zealanders’.

I am sure however that the future is very bleak indeed for Maori who do not belong to the wealthy and craven elite. Currently those who identify as Maori are around 12%. Add another 3 or 4 million to the general population over the next couple of decades (why wouldn’t that happen?) and the % is diluted. The breeding program we call the DPB is slowly being tightened up. When Maori population dwindles to 5 or 6 % it’s hard to get heard. Especially when you have a history of being needy and antisocial.

If only their most vocal representatives (Sykes, Greens, Maori party etc) would inspire and encourage. But they don’t.
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December 8, 2013 9:31am
Pete George

Jack5 – it wasn’t my wagon, it was a wagon supported by most of Parliament. I think it’s too soon to judge, the bill hasn’t even kicked in fully yet.

There is never going to be a quick and simple solution to drug problems, but surely different approaches need to be tried.
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December 8, 2013 9:34am
Left Right and Centre

NZ Story on TV1: Dr. Lance O’Sullivan

Did anyone see this shit ?

First off – this dude is another very very white lookin person who does nothing but bleat on about how Maori he is. Where does the white look come from then mate ?

The whole thing was full of slanted PC bollocks about the lovely Maori people. Oh, those poor Maori kids. Yeah, that should never have been born to dipshit no-hoper parents who breed like lower animals.

Of course – the good doctor himself had to have seven offspring (and counting ?). At least they are looked after. Planet earth still doesn’t need seven kids per couple though. And of course he had to have half of them while studying medicine. Hori styles. Don’t wait to become fully-qualified first- nah, that’s waaaay too honky brother….
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December 8, 2013 9:38am
hj

27 years in prison (and age) must mellow. I wonder if their are similar examples (remembering that Mandela saw an end to apartheid)? How would a Muslim radical come out?
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December 8, 2013 9:40am
stephieboy

Can this Lion and Lioness teach us about true love and intimacy .?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201767292716800&set=o.120504090482&type=1
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December 8, 2013 9:42am
Pete George

The raving of Martyn Bradbury is well known, and a few commenters follow suit, but the comments are not a representative of opinion because Bradbury actively filters opinions he doesn’t want heard.

The second comment on Bradbury’s post…

This post fails Mandela 101

If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner.

We must therefore act together as a united people, for national reconciliation, for nation building, for the birth of a new world.
Let there be justice for all.
Let there be peace for all.

A beautiful and important film about South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission. It will engage and influence not only South Africans, but people all over the world concerned with the great questions of human reconciliation, forgiveness, and tolerance.

That of course is quoting Mandela back at Bradbury’s un-Mandelian post. But It didn’t get past moderation.

Later a few comments talking common sense did get through, but overall the comments at The Daily Post can never been taken as representative of what people think, they’re just what Bradbury wants people to see.

That’s why using multiple forums are useful – Martyn Bradbury fails Mandela 101.
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December 8, 2013 9:43am
Tauhei Notts

Pauleastbay at 9.08.
The correct score was
Man United 0 Newcastle 1.
The English have a delightful and insightful way of ALWAYS referring to the home team first. It makes the words “played at Old Trafford” superfluous, when the result is written properly.
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December 8, 2013 9:44am
NK

Bloody good to see The Red Devils falling into the abyss. May it long continue!
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December 8, 2013 9:51am
Pete George

“The mayhem from synthetic drugs continues. The “fix” of Possum Pete Dunne, supported by most MP’s, has so far failed miserably.”

If you actually ready through the linked article it shows that Jack5’s criticism is what fails miserably.

Police seized his beer bottle for testing. ESR scientists discovered the presence of the synthetic cannabinoid AB-Pinaca.

Psychoactive Substances Regulatory Authority manager Dr Donald Hannah said the authority learnt of AB-Pinaca only last week, after being contacted by police.

No interim approved synthetic cannabis products contained AB-Pinaca. Because it was not an approved substance, it was illegal under the Psychoactive Substances Act, Hannah said.

So it’s not the fault of the Psychoactive Substances Act, it’s the fault of people who import and sell illegal drugs, and the fault of people who spike drinks with drugs.
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December 8, 2013 9:55am
hj

Great Quotes from evolutionary & Sociobiology

“We must, however, acknowledge … that man with all his noble qualities, with sympathy which feels for the most debased, with benevolence which extends not only to other men but to the humblest living creature, with his god-like intellect which has penetrated into the movements and constitution of the solar system- with all these exalted powers- Man still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin.”
– Charles Darwin, “The Descent Of Man”

“We are here because one odd group of fishes had a peculiar fin anatomy that could transform into legs for terrestrial creatures; because the earth never froze entirely during an ice age; because a small and tenuous species, arising in Africa a quarter of a million years ago, has managed, so far, to survive by hook and by crook. We may yearn for a ‘higher’ answer – but none exists.”
– Stephen Jay Gould

Evolution is cleverer than you are.
– Orgel’s Second Rule

When we die, there are two things we can leave behind us: genes and memes. But as each generation passes, the contribution of your genes is halved. Socrates may or may not have a gene or two alive in the world today, as G.C Williams remarked, but who cares? The meme-complexes of Socrates, Leonardo, Copernicus and Marconi are still going strong.

We are survival machines – robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known as genes.
– Richard Dawkins

Adaptations are for the good of the genes that implement them, and one of the best demonstrations of this is the 50-50 ratio of males to females. If organisms were designed to benefit the species, they would not waste half the available food on sons, who can’t directly replenish the species with babies. Any necessary genetic variation could easily be supplied by a few studs. Organisms pump out sons because whenever females are more plentiful, the genes of mothers and fathers who bear sons have a reproductive field day, and the mixture settles at 50-50. If the species suffers, that’s just too bad.
– Stephen Pinker

The assertion that ‘culture’ explains human variation will be taken seriously when there are reports of women war parties raiding villages to capture men as husbands, or of parent cloistering their sons but not their daughters to protect their sons’ virtue, or when cultural distributions for preferences concerning physical attractiveness, earning power, relative age and so on show as many cultures with bias in one direction as in the other.
– John Tooby, “The Adapted Mind”
http://homepage.eircom.net/~odyssey/Quotes/Life/Science/Evolution.html
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December 8, 2013 10:03am
Jack5

Re Pete George’s 9.07 on synthetic drugs…

C’mon Pete, the Christchurch Hospital emergency specialist said:

the number of patients being admitted with symptoms including panic attacks, heart palpitations, intractable vomiting and psychosis after taking synthetic cannabis had not fallen since the Psychoactive Substances Act took effect in August. …

The spiking of the guy’s drink you mention was just the peg on which the reporter hung the specialist’s general comments.

Dunne signalled the legislation changes so well and so far ahead the synthetic drugs labs had plenty of time to prepare, and many dairies continue to be drug peddlers. Why did Dunne give the synthetic narco’s so much lead time? So far the Dunne response has failed.
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December 8, 2013 10:08am
NK

“Communists everywhere fight to destroy capitalist society and to replace it with Socialism, where the masses of the common people, irrespective of race or colour, will live in complete equality, freedom and happiness. They seek to revolutionise society and are thus called revolutionaries. Those who support capitalism with its class divisions and other evils and who oppose our just struggles to end oppression are called counter revolutionaries.”

“Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro… Cuban internationalists have done so much for African independence, freedom, and justice. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of a vicious imperialist campaign designed to destroy the advances of the Cuban revolution. We too want to control our destiny… There can be no surrender. It is a case of freedom or death. The Cuban revolution has been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people.”

Nelson Mandela

“The Soviet Union is the torch-bearer for all our hopes and aspirations. We have learned and are continuing to learn resilience and bravery from the Soviet people, who are an example to us in our struggle for freedom, a model of loyalty to internationalist duty. In Soviet Russia, genuine power of the people has been transformed from dreams into reality. The land of the Soviets is the genuine friend and ally of all peoples fighting against the dark forces of world reaction.”

Winnie Mandela
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December 8, 2013 10:13am
Pete George

No Jack, if an illegal drug was used as appears to be the case then the Psychoactive Substances Act has done it’s job – automatically defining it as illegal – and Customs and the Police have failed.

That’s not a criticism of Customs and the Police, there’s a lot of illegal drugs that get past them. It’s been a problem for a long time and it will probably always be a problem.

I don’t think the effectiveness of the Psychoactive Substances Act can be judged for another year or more, once we see if relatively safe substances get approval and reduce the use of new and unsafe drugs.
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December 8, 2013 10:16am
Jack5

Pete George (10.16):

Why the delay in the measure kicking in? Why so many young lives wrecked and so much general mayhem in the long lead in?

Pete Dunne gave the synthetic narco’s a whack with a pussy-willow.
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December 8, 2013 10:21am
duggledog

Further to my post above: “Man stabbed in the head in Papakura, homicide investigation in Linton…”

“Man fatally shot in Bay of Plenty, and Child Abuse Tally Up Not Down”

Yes, crime rates sure are coming down.
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December 8, 2013 10:22am
Pete George

Jack5 – what do you think should have happened? Make all psychoactive substances legal? Illegal? Double the budget for Customs and Police on drug interception? Have undercover police or bar staff monitor all drinks?

I don’t know what you expect.

Police have charged a 43-year-old who was drinking with the victim with poisoning with intent to injure over the incident at the Pineacres Restaurant and Bar, in Kaiapoi.

Someone has been charged with putting an illegal and obviously dangerous drug in someone else’s drink. Law enforcement couldn’t prevent it happening, but it is dealing with it appropriately now. This has been made easier by the Act.

Can you suggest how this could have been dealt with better?
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December 8, 2013 10:28am
cha

https://twitter.com/USSArizona

The USS Arizona as she was hit at 8:10 AM destroying her and killing most of her crew. #PearlHarbor72 pic.twitter.com/ZdYojd2vYN

https://twitter.com/USSArizona/status/409385979057668096
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December 8, 2013 10:29am
Pete George

Why so many young lives wrecked and so much general mayhem in the long lead in?

Mostly because young people keep taking risks by experimenting with unproven substances. If you have a way of stopping that then suggest away.
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December 8, 2013 10:34am
wiseowl

duggledog@9.31

It is a sad situation indeed and the country is being led by some dictated decision from most likely the UN that we must ruin our country with immigrants from cultures different from ours.

National and Labour do not have immigration policies.

A secret agreement?
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December 8, 2013 10:35am
Kea

we must ruin our country with immigrants from cultures different from ours.

sillychook, I take it you are a full blooded Maori then ?

If not, I suggest you reflect a little more on this one. Though I get what your point probably is and largely agree.
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December 8, 2013 10:43am
Pete George

Rodney Hide has taken a swing at Colin Craig and conspiracy theories in his Sunday Herald column Sign up, ye gullible and trusting:

I am left wondering if the conspiracy theorists have found a welcoming home with the new Conservative Party. Certainly Craig was anxious not to offend those who believe that governments are mass dosing us, that 9/11 was a government job, and that Nasa staged the moon landings in Nevada.

Of course, it could be that Craig genuinely believes such nonsense possible. After all, conspiracy theories have the same amount of supporting evidence as the idea that a supernatural being made the earth and all its creatures in six days in 4004BC and now oversees human affairs.

The defining characteristic of the Conservatives may well be gullibility.

Of course Hide will see the Conservative Party as a threat to his Act Party.

The defining characteristics of Act over the next twelve months may be ‘jaded’, ‘wary’ and ‘dubious’ (about chances of another revival). The future of Act may depend as much on Hide’s decisions as Conservative’s future depends on Craig’s lack of decisions on conspiracy theories.
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December 8, 2013 10:46am
Jack5

Evidence of the double standard towards New Zealand “white” folk, if you can use that description for the mainly European-descent and mixed European-Maori descent mainstream population of this country.

From the situations vacant classfied advertisements on page 35 of the Wednesday, December 4, 2013 edition of Christchurch’s The Star, which is the free publication that has evolved from the daily newspaper, the Christchurch Star

Live in carer required

To look after 50-plus male and female, Indian couple. Woolston area. General household duties. Indian preferred.

It finishes with two names to contact, with their phone number.

If I was in another land, with another culture, with another mainstream language, and needed a carer, I, too, would find it comfortable to have a carer with at least a good command of English, and used to the culture I came from.

However, would a New Zealand MSM publication accept an advertisement in which some elderly “white” New Zealanders said they preferred “white” carers?

I doubt it.
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December 8, 2013 10:46am
Jack5

Pete George – why did Possum Pete Dunne lead politicians into giving the synthetic narco’s a year before they had to move to the new regime where they have to prove their drugs are safe?

That’s the crux of the matter.

Dunne stuffed it up.
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December 8, 2013 10:49am
Pete George

No he didn’t, neither did Parliament, the select committee or all advisory groups and experts who contributed. You can’t expect one Act to immediately solve all drug problems.

I presume they put in the lead times because making all psychoactive substances illegal straight away would have just changed the problem – and the case you referred to would just as easily have happened.

If nothing had changed then kids – and adults – would still be drugging themselves and would still be having their drinks spiked.

You haven’t suggested any better alternative.
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December 8, 2013 10:56am
liarbors a joke

“And of course Christchurch want everything despite billions of taxpayers money already having been paid with more in line – expected to be $30,000,000,000 eventually.”

Excuse me ? Taxpayers are stumping up the 30 billion? Me think you should get story right…insurance companies, largely, are paying out not the taxpayer…and it will be closer to 40 billion.
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December 8, 2013 11:13am
Jack5

Pete (10.56 post) – yes I did suggest an alternative. Dropping the lead time. I don’t know whether sellers of the synthetic narcos’ products should also be licensed if that isn’t included in the solution. But it could be, on the lines of liquor retailing, with local communities given the say on who can handle it.

The lead time has been a disaster. If it hadn’t been for that, the animal rights extremists might be cleaning out the synthetic narco’s for us.

On drugs generally, you seem to be defeatist, Pete George. Some countries have kicked hell out of the problem, for example Singapore. I doubt NZ’ers would sacrifice a little democracy to achieve a Singapore solution, but if the mayhem worsens sufficiently it may come to that, complete with a reintroduction of the death penalty, at present supported by only about 30-35 per cent of NZ’ers.

A decriminalisation route is a more likely path, along the lines of the control of our biggest drug industry, alcohol. Control and tax! IMHO, Dunne and the Government were on the right track to deal with the synthetic narco’s, but they stuffed up with the lead time.

Of narcotics over all, perhaps a generation change may some day mean young folk regard drugs as the outdated mark of an older, dissolute generation, and move on to what their parents will see as a more mundane lifestyle. Or, perhaps, narco-addled societies may be subjugated by new puritanical cultures.
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December 8, 2013 11:15am
duggledog

Pete George – thanks for the link.

Hide and all other small parties are bound to come out swinging at someone like Colin Craig; Hide especially as he has been working on a building site and no doubt wants back in. Why wouldn’t he? The guy is a consummate politician.

I found Key’s reply to Leighton Smith’s query on what he thought of these Craig ‘conspiracy’ statements to be very interesting. I invite every KB reader to take a look at the video which was on the 1ZB site last week. The body language and lengthy pause before answering spoke volumes.

I paraphrase, but Key said Craig is either very very clever or very very stupid; clever in that Craig is getting miles of column inches which will open the door, so to speak, to the NZ public (much to the dismay of people just like Hide and Peters too of course). And I am guessing, this means tricking the gullible media. Once he is established then it’s easy enough to debunk the rumours and then go on to policy etc.

Or he is thick as a plank. But you don’t get to where he is in life by being thick as a plank. I’m looking forward to Election 2014
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December 8, 2013 11:15am
duggledog

Wiseowl

Having said that, the immigrants may not ruin the country. They may be the ones that beat the socialism out of us by sheer numbers and save us from bankruptcy.
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December 8, 2013 11:18am
Scott Chris

Never heard of cannabis triggering a coma before – but known quite a few people who’ve drunk themselves comatose.

And smokable synthetic cannabis isn’t a powder that would dissolve to invisibility so you’d have to wonder how pissed this guy was not to have noticed all the weird shit floating in his beer.
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December 8, 2013 11:35am
Kea

Some countries have kicked hell out of the problem, for example Singapore.

Another example is Saudi Arabia, using identical methods; Execution, floggings etc.
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December 8, 2013 11:38am
cha

Some countries have kicked hell out of the problem, for example Singapore.

Of course they have.
//

http://www.hometeam.sg/article.aspx?news_sid=20130205UdNNGyXMjqGa

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2013/11/16/Businessman-held-in-major-drug-bust.aspx
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December 8, 2013 11:51am
Kea

FEATURE-Party drugs a hit with wealthy in Singapore

SINGAPORE, Dec 10 (Reuters) – It is Friday night. Ling, a bank analyst in Armani heels, pops a small, blue pill into her mouth and dances to the thumping beat. Later she heads to a house party with her friends where they snort cocaine off tabletops.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/12/10/idUSSIN135004

Maybe those who get off on floggings should simply hire a hooker and leave the rest of us alone ?
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December 8, 2013 11:54am
Fairfacts Media

Is it too much to expect more than a simple-minded beatification of “Saint” Nelson Mandela from our media?
Surely, with New Zealand having such a significant South African population, there is scope for much more in the way of personal reflections and recollections from some of our recent immigrants, who overall should be able to provide a more broader and accurate assessment of “Madiba.”
After all, doesn’t their presence in New Zealand suggest a failure of the Post-Aparthied Rainbow Nation?
It is clear that Mandela is neither the flawless saint we are seeing in the media today, and though his involvement in terrorism is clear, it is obvious his magnamity, forgiveness and humility is much to be lauded for.
His legacy will also be surely tested in the months and years ahead. Was Mandela’s forgiveness the glue that held South Africa together? Will we see a further exodus of South Africans when he is gone? Will there be racial strife and economic collapse once the moderating influence of Mandela has gone?
Certainly, the character of Nelson Mandela is not as black and white, as it were, as we might see from the media coverage on tv , or what has appeared in some of of our right-leaning blogs.
Much certainly needs to be explored about the involvement in terrorism by Mr Mandela if we are to receive a truthful and accurate assessment.
The role of our governments needs to be studied too? What was Lange, Muldoon and co doing at the time?
I note some of the British blogs and media have been looking at the role of Margaret Thatcher and the Conservative government of the time.
Leftist critics have attacked the Baroness for opposing sanctions. Today, they even falsely accused current PM David Cameron of making ‘Hang Mandela’ posters.
http://www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/2013/12/twitter-fact-check-david-cameron-didnt-want-hang-nelson-mandela-80s
However, Mrs Thatcher opposed aparthied, just as much as she opposed communism. She played a major role in securing Nelson Mandela’s release and obviously helped moderate Mandela’s leftist beliefs.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/nelson-mandela/10500732/Mandela-Nelson-by-name-defender-of-British-values-by-nature.html
This is confirmed by secret letters too.
http://order-order.com/2013/12/07/when-maggie-told-botha-to-free-nelson-mandela/
Margaret Thatcher may even have saved Mandela’s life in the 1960s.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22069896
Of course, the African National Congress remained a communist and terrorist organisation , of which Nelson Mandela headed for so long, an organisation which senior Conservatives, including Baroness Thatcher, rightfully criticised.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25266180
At the time, there remained a Soviet Union and the failures of communism were less clear than they are today. Western leaders also no doubt feared what a communist ANC might do in creating a Soviet South Africa.
And there remains much to be reported and studied about the South Africa of today, the crimes, the killings of Boer farmers and so on, along with the role of the ANC government.
All the same, the truth is nothing like the narrative fed by much of the media, it is far more sophisticated and nuanced than that.
What a tragedy that the media in New Zealand and elsewhere is failing in its job.
Is there more to Mandela, than being a saint?
How is the South Africa of today performing?
Why do we have so many South Africans here?
And can we expect more?
I leave you with a quote from Mandela that probably won’t make the New Zealand papers, one that will have many leftists choking.
Nelson Mandela on Margaret Thatcher, July 1990
“She is an enemy of apartheid… We have much to thank her for.”
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December 8, 2013 12:01pm
stephieboy

Folks a reminder from Ian Anderson Jethro Tull what the festive season is really all about.

A Christmas Song,

Once in Royal David’s City stood a lonely cattle shed,
Where a mother held her baby.
You’d do well to remember the things He later said.
When you’re stuffing yourselves at the Christmas parties,
You’ll just laugh when I tell you to take a running jump.
You’re missing the point I’m sure does not need making
That Christmas spirit is not what you drink.

So how can you laugh when your own mother’s hungry,
And how can you smile when the reasons for smiling are wrong?
And if I just messed up your thoughtless pleasures,
Remember, if you wish, this is just a Christmas song.

(Hey! Santa! Pass us that bottle, will you?)

For a moment put aside all our bile of hate.

Jesus is the reason for the season.!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auc23qz6QhE
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December 8, 2013 12:18pm
Fletch

More truths about Mandela. He was a friend of Arafat and condemned Israel as being “Zionist racists”

In 2000, the American Jewish Committee canceled a Washington luncheon scheduled to honor Mandela after he said that 13 Jews tried for “espionage” in Iran were receiving a “fair trial”.

Mandela laid a wreath on the grave of Ayatollah Khomeini, the father of the Iranian revolution, warmly greeting his successor, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. “We are indebted to the Islamic Revolution”, Mandela proclaimed. It is the same Mandela who claimed that Communist Cuba had achieved the “systematic eradication of racism”.

In 1990, Mandela likened Israel to a “terrorist state” and declared that “we do not regard the PLO as a terrorist organization. If one has to refer to any parties as a terrorist state, one might refer to the Israeli government because they are the people who are slaughtering defenseless and innocent Arabs in the occupied territories”.

Mandela should have raised Jewish eyebrows when in 1990 he embraced Arafat in Lusaka, Zambia, likening the Palestinian-Israeli conflict to the struggle against South African apartheid. “If the truth alienates the powerful Jewish community in South Africa, that’s too bad”, said Mandela.

During a trip to Libya, Mandela declared that “we consider ourselves to be comrades in arms to the Palestinian Arabs in their struggle for the liberation of Palestine. There is not a single citizen in South Africa who is not ready to stand by his Palestinian brothers in their legitimate fight against the Zionist racists”.

In September 1990, addressing the Reform congregation of Johannesburg, Mandela said: “If Zionism means the right of the Jewish people to seize territory and deny the Palestinian people the right to self-determination, we condemn it”.

In 1999 Mandela supported the Palestinian Arab use of violence. With Arafat seated next to him in Gaza, Mandela declared: “All men and women with vision choose peace rather than confrontation, except in cases where we cannot proceed, where we cannot move forward. Then if the only alternative is violence, we will use violence”.

A few weeks later, the Palestinian Arabs began the Second Intifada. 2,000 Jewish civilians have since been killed in suicide attacks and shootings. When the terrorist Arafat died, Mandela called him “outstanding freedom fighter”.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/14199#.UqJdkdJDvh4
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December 8, 2013 12:41pm
Kea

condemned Israel as being “Zionist racists”

And ?

Fletch cut the crap. The entire basis for the establishment of Israel was based on race/religion. People who had lived there for generations were displaced to make way for born and bred Europeans, Russians and Americans, because they were “Jewish”

The only argument for this was a book (they wrote) saying they are gods favourite special master race.

Support Israel if you want, but cut the bullshit and double standards.
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December 8, 2013 12:46pm
ChardonnayGuy

Is the real reason that the raving right is so venomous about Mandela’s demise really attributable to the fact that their tiny right-wing extremist groups were deprived of blood money from their white South African apartheid era allies in Jo’burg and Pretoria after the end of the racist obscenity in question? Like it or not, Mandela did maintain stable government and economic prosperity for post-apartheid South Africa and there was no bloodbath.
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December 8, 2013 12:51pm
TimG_Oz

Hi Fletch, Mandela supported Israel to live in peace in secure borders in a two state solution. He visited Yad Vashem, and under his watch, the ANC had a much better relationship with Israel than they do now.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Mandela-and-Israel-334174

He also said that if he was stuck with hatred once released he would still be in his own virtual prison. I think that’s a lesson missing to todays Palestinian and Arab leadership.
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December 8, 2013 12:51pm
ChardonnayGuy

And yeah, some of the anti-Mandela crowd were certainly in a league of their own- namely the goosestepping, neofascist, anti-immigrant racist and anti-Semitic *Australian and New Zealand League of Rights*, investigated by the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation during World War II due to its Nazi sympathies, and which subsequently ranted and raved about “one world conspiracies”, neofascist “anti-communism” and branched out to attack indigenous rights politics and Asian immigration in the seventies and eighties, as well as infiltrating gullible and manipulable Christian Right paranoid antigay and antiabortion hate groups.
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December 8, 2013 12:55pm
Kea

and there was no bloodbath.

There was a bloodbath and it is still running. There is no msm coverage of the atrocities. The msm are desperate to make this violent brutal hell hole look like success and are willing to turn a blind eye to anything blacks do to promote the lie.
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December 8, 2013 12:58pm
Fletch

TinG, the article you posted mentions Mandela was ambivalent toward Israel (in fact, that is the title of the article), and it says –

He supported Israel’s right to exist as a democratic Jewish state, yet felt closer to its enemies: the PLO’s Yasser Arafat, Libya’s Muammar Gaddafi, Cuba’s Fidel Castro, Iran’s Mohammed Khatami and Syria’s Hafez Assad. Nevertheless, he praised his Israeli hosts for their warm reception and peace-making efforts.
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December 8, 2013 1:00pm
Tauhei Notts

At one stage the African National Congress’ axiom;
“One settler, one bullet”
was claiming a farmer every 36 hours. They got 244 in one year.
No, that was no bloodbath.
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December 8, 2013 1:08pm
Reid

Israel and South Africa collaborated extensively on their nuclear programs and they were always close both pre and post apartheid. They shared a common bond: they were both during the apartheid era pariah states. They are also a huge source of diamonds, which is a major reason why Israel kept up the links. Israel is to the world diamond market what NZ is to rugby.

Meanwhile, as Fletch alluded to, the left’s hypocrisy on Mandela is, as usual, breathtaking. Leftists make a habit of picking and choosing their belief structures to suit themselves. Either because they hallucinate they’re brighter than everyone else and no-one will notice or because they know their mates in the media are so profoundly thick they’ll never point it out.

Mandela stood at the crossroads. He seemed poised to lead a new direction. His popularity and bigger than life persona empowered him.

He had a unique chance to reject neoliberal orthodoxy. ANC candidates swept 1994 elections.

Mandela became president. A peaceful transition was achieved. Privileged white interests maintained real power.

Mandela’s agenda could have been different. He could followed what Chavez successfully instituted in Venezuela.

He chose not to. Black South Africans paid dearly. Mandela’s legacy remains tainted. He relegated his people to horrific post-apartheid conditions.

“Just call me a Thatcherite,” he said. He adopted free market fundamentalist harshness. Neoliberal shock therapy followed. It works the same way wherever it’s introduced.

The toll on black South Africans was devastating. He and other ANC leaders bear full responsibility. People living on less than $1 a day doubled.

From 1991 – 2002, unemployment soared to 48%. It remains disturbingly high. Officially it’s around 26%. It’s much higher.

Youth unemployment exceeds 50%. About 80% of unemployed young people never worked or had jobs longer than a year.

During the first decade of ANC rule, around two million South Africans lost homes. Another one million lost farms. Shack dwelling increased 50%.

One-fourth or more of South Africans have no running water or electricity. Around 40% of schools have no electricity.

About 50% of South Africans have inadequate sanitation. Around 40% have no telephones.

HIV/AIDS remains a major problem. South Africa has the world’s largest number of affected people. Officially it’s over five million. Unofficially it’s higher.

It’s more than in North America, Latin America, Eastern Europe and Central Asia combined.

Post-apartheid, life expectancy declined by 13 years. In 2011, it was 58, according to the World Health Organization. It ranks below Afghanistan at 60 years.

Overall South African conditions remain deplorable. They exceed the worst of apartheid harshness. Neoliberal exploitation exacted a horrific toll.

Mandela could have made a difference. He chose Thatcherism over economic fairness. Betrayal defines his legacy.

He relegated millions of black South Africans to permanent destitution, unemployment, hunger, malnutrition, homelessness, lost futures and early deaths.

http://www.dailycensored.com/mandelas-disturbing-legacy/

What I suspect happened is that the large SA corporations promised to give the black leadership extremely comfortable lives in exchange for not doing anything significant in terms of nationalisation or other avenues that would have improved the lot of the lives of their poorer brethren. In so doing they’re not that much different from our Maori elite here, are they.
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December 8, 2013 1:11pm
Kea

PRESIDENT JACOB ZUMA, PRESIDENT OF SOUTH AFRICA, LEADS THE LEADERSHIP OF THE ANC AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF ANC SUPPORTERS IN SINGING “THE CABINET WILL SHOOT THE BOER WITH MACHINE GUNS” ON SUNDAY 8 JANUARY 2012

http://www.south-africa-the-real-issues.org/Home/SouthAfricaZumasingsofmurderingwhites.aspx#.UqO1StIW381

At least they will die more quickly than many other whites. The levels of sadistic savagery used are beyond belief in most murders.
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December 8, 2013 1:11pm
Kea

More “diversity and tolerance” black African style:

Horror of South Africa’s ‘corrective rape’

Lesbians in South Africa say they are threatened and victimized by men who believe they can “cure” them by raping them.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/27/world/wus-sa-rapes/

Of course under Mandela it became the rape capital of the world, with the added horror of numerous infant rape, reaching horrific levels.

But still it is worth it not to have whites making the country the most orderly, safe and prosperous country for BLACKS in Africa.
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December 8, 2013 1:21pm
Pauleastbay

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11169019

Cunliffies new bio – “organised Nelson Mandela’s funeral”
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December 8, 2013 1:23pm
liarbors a joke

South Africa..over it

Mandela..over it
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December 8, 2013 1:23pm
Reid

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/12/07/338645/saudis-plan-major-offensive-against-syria/

It should really read Israel plans…
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December 8, 2013 1:23pm
nasska

It’s a good job that Nelson Mandela was imprisoned back in the 60’s instead of now.

I can’t imagine he’d be such an inspirational figure if he just received a 3 month suspended sentence with 80 hours of community service.
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December 8, 2013 1:31pm
MH

and before Thatcher ? There was Harold Wilson and ed Heath and the small matter over Ian Smith’s UDI in Rhodesia,and the shooting down of aircraft in the bush by the Rev Mugabe’s peace loving mob- as aptly and prophetically described by Sgt Rob Muldoon.
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December 8, 2013 1:32pm
Harriet

Others are also saying much the same.

Let me cite Christian writer Joseph Farah for example: “The whole world, pretty much, is mourning for Nelson Mandela today. But most are not mourning for the real Mandela. They are, in fact, mourning for the myth of Mandela. He was not Martin Luther King Jr. He was not Mahatma Gandhi. And he was certainly not George Washington, as Barack Obama claimed.

“He was a committed member of the South African Communist Party. He was a leader of the revolutionary African National Congress, which he helped to radicalize into an organization sworn to armed, violent attacks. Maybe you say: ‘But Farah, he was fighting against the evil of Apartheid!’

“Yes, that is true. Apartheid was inarguably an evil and unjustifiable system. But so is the system Mandela’s revolution brought about – one in which anti-white racism is so strong today that a prominent genocide watchdog group has labeled the current situation a ‘precursor’ to the deliberate, systematic elimination of the race.

“In other words, the world has been sold a bill of goods about Mandela. He wasn’t the saintly character portrayed by Morgan Freeman. He wasn’t someone fighting for racial equality. He was the leader of a violent, Communist revolution that has nearly succeeded in all of its grisly horror.”

He says we should not take his word for it: “Instead, listen to Sonia Hruska. She was an early supporter of Mandela and worked in his administration. ‘After about six years,’ Hruska said, ‘I realized something serious is wrong; the communist elements are taking over, it’s not what we were promised.’

“What did she see that the rest of the world missed? ‘As a business owner, I can get 25 years in jail time if I do employ a white person, for instance,’ she said. ‘It is totally ridiculous; you cannot have imagined that affirmative action could have gone so far.’ Today, in South Africa’s white population of 4 million, 1 million live in utter poverty. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

“Hruska describes routine, violent, racist atrocities of almost unimaginable proportions: Kidnap murders, home invasions, gang rapes. ‘It’s heinous torture,’ Hruska explained. ‘Even children as young as 2 months old get burned with hot water, get wrapped in newspaper and burned.’

Yet many want to argue that Mandela changed his policies and later eschewed violence. Well, yes and no. While he worked for reconciliation, he continued to hobnob with and praise most of the world’s bloodiest dictators and terrorist leaders. As another commentator writes:

“After apartheid ended and Mandela was freed he wasted no time in lavishing praise on communists and thug dictators. In 1991 he and his wife Winnie went to Cuba, which they called their second home, to celebrate the communist revolution with Fidel Castro.

“While there he said, ‘Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro… Cuban internationalists have done so much for African independence, freedom, and justice. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of a vicious imperialist campaign designed to destroy the advances of the Cuban revolution. We too want to control our destiny… There can be no surrender. It is a case of freedom or death. The Cuban revolution has been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people.’

Mandela also said of Cuba, ‘There’s one thing where that country stands out head and shoulders above the rest. That is its love for human rights and liberty.’ Of Libya’s dictator, Moammar Qaddafi, Mandela said he admired his commitment to fight for peace and human rights in the world.

“And in a speech given in Harlem, he referred to four Puerto Rican terrorists who shot and wounded five Congressmen and said, ‘We support the cause of anyone who is fighting for self-determination, and our attitude is the same, no matter who it is. I would be honored to sit on the platform with the four comrades you refer to’.”

And as I wrote in my earlier article, are things that much better in South Africa today? Many don’t think so: “Under ANC rule, South Africa has severely deteriorated. According to the Centre for Research on Globalization, most black South Africans are worse off now than they were under apartheid. Hundreds of thousands of jobs have vanished, costs for electricity, water, food and rent have skyrocketed, unemployment hovers around 40% and South Africa has become the violent crime and rape capital of the world.”

Or as Daniel Greenfield writes: “In the new apartheid, the black government represses a white minority and abuses its power over the black majority in ways that Western liberals would never tolerate if it were being practiced by men with Dutch last names. Every government crime is covered up by more incitement against the white minority with each generation of activists struggling to outdo the previous generation in its anti-white racism.

“There has been no moment of transcendence that endured. No cure for the things tearing the nation apart. There is no new spirit in South Africa. There is a new apartheid defined not by law, but by hate. Freedom and democracy are equally vaporous under the rule of a political movement obsessed with the vicious pragmatism of power now being exercised by Mandela’s African National Congress successors….

“For Western liberals, Mandela’s death provides them with permission to stop caring about South Africa. Having reduced South Africa to Mandela, his death permanently removes its existence from their minds. They may show up to the theater if Denzel Washington or Jamie Foxx decide to play Nelson Mandela. Otherwise they will comfortably banish the entire country to the dusty attic of forgotten history. Meanwhile one child is raped every three minutes and three children are murdered every day.”

Speaking of rape, consider the damning figures from this article: “According to womenforwomen.org, per hour one woman is raped in South Africa. Six cases of rape are reported to the police per hour. Meaning 144 rapes are reported per day. That’s not counting the number of rapes that go unreported.

“According to the Medical Research Council’s (MRC), up to 3600 women could be raped in the country every day. While women’s groups in South Africa estimate that a woman is raped every 26 seconds, the South African police estimate that a woman is raped every 36 seconds.”

Yet I keep hearing Christians telling me that South Africa is so much better now thanks to Mandela, and that at least apartheid is gone. Better is hardly the operative word here, and racial discrimination still exists, and is in fact even worse now. But now it is the whites who are the new and forgotten victims.

As Gregory Hood puts it, “Mandela deserves full responsibility for all of this. From the beginning, his dream was of a unitary South African state dominated by black voters supporting a leftist political party, with a thin crust of whites to fund it and keep it going. South Africa’s decline into criminality and chaos is simply these ideas playing out to their logical conclusion.”

There will be much more said about the man and his fruit in the days and weeks ahead. Given that I originally had no intentions of writing anything about him, this is now my second piece, and there may well be more on the way. But when I see truth demolished and historical fact denied or whitewashed, then I feel compelled to speak out.

And for that, I will simply get bombarded with more hate and abuse. So what else is new?

PS. For a terrific, fact filled review of the new film Mandela: Long Walk To Freedom see here: http://www.frontline.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1676&catid=16&Itemid=201

I can’t wait to hear what the NZ MSM, Key, and Cunliffe, have to say about Fidel Castro! 😎
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December 8, 2013 1:38pm
SGA

Reid at 1:11 pm

Leftists make a habit of picking and choosing their belief structures to suit themselves.

In my experience, this tendency often transcends political or religious orientation 🙂
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December 8, 2013 1:39pm
Jack5

Where are the Bainiacs today?

Do the all have (Sunday) paper runs?
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December 8, 2013 1:49pm
Jack5

ChardonnayGuy at 12.55 raises the old League of Rights.

These guys were Social Creditors, until they decided NZ Social Credit wasn’t pure enough in its beliefs about the monetary ideas of the crank, Major Douglas, and proclaimed themselves his true heirs in NZ.

If the League of Rights was around today, it would be anti-fluoridationist.
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December 8, 2013 1:57pm
Harriet

I hope Mandela is enjoying his time in hell for all his wickedness. His soul can rot there.
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December 8, 2013 2:25pm
Jack5

Since Harriet is raising Hell (2.25 post), here’s another grizzle.

Stephieboy at 12.18 posted a link to Ian Anderson Jethro Tull singing Once in Royal David’s City.

Stephieboy, your introduction of the “Christmas spirit” into the thread was well intentioned, and a nice thing to do.

However, this was by far the worst rendition I have ever heard of this lovely carol. Ian Anderson Jethro Tull massacred it. His singing is dreary and his own lyrics for the piece are banal. The performance is virtually blasphemy.

Are you tone-deaf, Stephieboy?

Nevertheless, Happy Christmas and a great 2014, Stephieboy. I hope Santa brings you some better music.
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December 8, 2013 2:32pm
Than

Or he is thick as a plank. But you don’t get to where he is in life by being thick as a plank.

It’s not that he’s as thick as a plank. It’s that he has as much political and media savvy as a plank.

There are different types of intelligence. And yes, Colin Craig must be pretty smart in many ways to get where he is. But his record of public statements shows he has absolutely no political instinct whatsoever. He just doesn’t seem to get how his statements come across to mainstream Kiwis. The moon-landing answer was just the latest of his many gaffes, and it is virtually certain he will make more in future.

Claiming this was a deliberate ploy for publicity is just John Key unconvincingly trying to defend the indefensible.
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December 8, 2013 2:51pm
cha

The late Daniel Inouye.

http://youtu.be/SikRVCkDG5E
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December 8, 2013 3:08pm
duggledog

Than

You may well be right. I’m just chucking it out there.

But with the MSM’s inevitable contempt for, and instant dismissal of, anyone daring to suggest the country would be better off with balanced books, abolition of Maori seats, tougher sentences etc, how would YOU crack through the glass ceiling and get into a position where at least middle NZ knew your name?

It may seem an odd way to go about it, but maybe rarking up the media by being non committal on obvious topics is the guy’s modus operandi. I’m not saying I’d vote for him.
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December 8, 2013 3:26pm
Manolo

Child poverty should not exist in this country. Blaming parents is pointless. No child should be left under-nourished or shivering in an uninsulated house. No child should suffer the preventable diseases of poverty. New Zealand can afford to rescue its most vulnerable citizens from neglect and abuse.

The Children’s Commissioner is right to give us this reality check for Christmas.

The do-gooders at the Huruld in full flight.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11168837

Hat Tip: Lindsay Mitchell
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December 8, 2013 3:34pm
wikiriwhis business

‘Child poverty should not exist in this country. ‘

The fact is it exists as documented in the Herald this weekend with children being admitted to hospitals due to afflictions caused by impoverishment.
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December 8, 2013 3:36pm
Fletch

Obama’s real BIRTH Certificate Surfaces?

Since we were talking about it yesterday, a guy claims to have gone to Kenya and obtained a photocopy, that he included with his affidavit (image included in video).

http://beforeitsnews.com/obama-birthplace-controversy/2013/12/obamas-real-birth-certificate-surfaces-2471526.html
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December 8, 2013 3:37pm
Manolo

Someone tell Labour and the Luddites to ban all these: http://health.msn.co.nz/healthnews/8767755/smoking-junk-food-unsafe-sex-on-rise
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December 8, 2013 3:42pm
stephieboy

Fletch Stop posting crap Conspiracy based links,
Before Its News rubbish,

http://beforeitsnews.com/9-11-and-ground-zero/2013/06/2013-wtc-dronemilitary-plane-attack-proof-new-witnesses-must-see-video-2439854.html

and more lies,

http://beforeitsnews.com/healthcare/2013/12/the-unfolding-healthcare-holocaust-2452468.html
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December 8, 2013 3:43pm
wikiriwhis business

ACC to rethink abuse link

A judge has ruled in favour of an ACC claimant in a case expected to have “enormous” ramifications for the way mental health patients are treated.

In the decision, released recently, Judge Grant Powell in the Wellington District Court agreed with a psychiatrist who said a man’s schizophrenia had been caused by trauma from sexual abuse in childhood.

Two ACC-employed psychiatrists had earlier said there was no evidence schizophrenia was anything other than a biological condition passed down through families and so the man’s abuse had nothing to do with his condition.

However, the judge agreed with a growing body of research that says traumatic events can cause psychosis.

The research includes the work of clinical psychologist John Read, who has been at the forefront of research to show a relationship between childhood sexual and physical abuse and psychotic symptoms, including schizophrenia.

‘Read said it was “alarming” that the two ACC psychiatrists “either knew nothing about the many studies documenting the relationship between child abuse and psychosis or were trying to mislead the judge”.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/9490650/ACC-to-rethink-abuse-link

It’s break through cases like this that totally destroy most Kiwibloggers arguments on social issues they have no authority to talk about. And usually no research.
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December 8, 2013 3:46pm
wikiriwhis business

‘Fletch Stop posting crap Conspiracy based links’

Carry on Fletch
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December 8, 2013 3:48pm
Kea

‘Child poverty should not exist in this country. ‘

The fact is it exists as documented in the Herald this weekend with children being admitted to hospitals due to afflictions caused by impoverishment.

The term “CHILD poverty” is a blatant appeal to emotion rather than reason. Anyone who uses the term has hidden motives.

Are they seriously suggesting the kids are living in “poverty” while the parents are doing just fine ?

Bullshit. The problem is poverty, not “child” poverty. Almost without exception any activism that has at its core “think of the children” results in bad policy.
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December 8, 2013 4:19pm
Kea

I hope Mandela is enjoying his time in hell for all his wickedness. His soul can rot there.

Not too big on those forgiveness and love passages of the good book Harriet ? 😉
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December 8, 2013 4:21pm
duggledog

Child poverty = shit parents on the piss = three decades or more of the DPB lifestyle.

Phase out the DPB or cap the total spend. Kids born to deadbeat parents are their own family’s problem. Not mine. Never should have been
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December 8, 2013 4:30pm
Kea

These “child poverty” activist do not give a shit about kids. They are using this meme to shame the government. If the Greens or Labour were in power they would fall silent, regardless of how kids were doing.

If they really cared about kids they would be advocating sensible economic policy and the abolition of working for families and the benefit. We pay women to have kids, even if they have no means of supporting them.

I spoke with a 36 year old woman the other day. She has no fixed abode, no money, no partner and serious debts. She planed to get pregnant and have a baby. And her plan will work in modern feminist NZ. She will get a home, an income and untold assistance. Because she is a womin. It actually has nothing to do with kids.
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December 8, 2013 4:56pm
nasska

When the DPB was introduced in 1973 few imagined what it would morph into. There was genuine sympathy for women & kids trapped in dysfunctional relationships headed by violent & alcoholic men & most voters saw it as a way for families to escape. Whether by the design of the benefit or the realisation by a few low lifes that the system could be gamed, it has become an intergenerational way of life for too many.

As the beloved matriarch of the gimmes Aunty Tariana has fought tooth & claw to maintain the status quo as a price for support for National. When what is needed is for the benefit to be cut for career breeders nine months from today the continuation of the scam is the price paid for a National government.

MMP has much to answer for.
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December 8, 2013 5:21pm
Kea

nasska, If I thought the benefit was only being used to help women trapped in those situations, then I would advocate increasing it.

If they cut the DBP it is my belief we will see less kids living in poverty, not more. We need to stop incentivising the things we don’t want.
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December 8, 2013 5:45pm
nasska

Kea

The devil is in the detail. Short of time limiting the benefit how could legislation be phrased in a way that would enshrine the original purpose of the DPB while excluding the breeders?

Other than the Maori & Mana Parties & certainly the Greens who see indiscriminate underclass breeding as bolstering their constituency it probably wouldn’t be hard to sell the idea to the electorate.
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December 8, 2013 6:38pm
Odakyu-sen

Perhaps someone can enlighten me.

Have any studies be carried out as to why parents are unable to provide the necessities for their children? I would be curious to know what prevents a parent seeking medical help. What prevents them putting porridge on the table for breakfast? What prevents them from getting low-cost clothing from community based aid-groups? What compels them to have children when they don’t have the means to look after them?

Is it a lack of money? A lack of knowledge? A lack of time? A lack of motivation?

Is anyone making any attempt to find out the reasons for this so-called “child poverty”?

Or would any study in this area actually make a difference?

Here’s a question for you all: If you had a who s**t-load of funding for a study into “child poverty,” what kind of questions would your study try to find the answers to?
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December 8, 2013 6:41pm
big bruv

So, who is going to the Auckland rugby league 9’s? instead of the Rugby 7’s in Wellington?

I am not sure why anybody would want to go to the league 9’s. A stadium full of rugby league low life, all trying to out ‘staunch’ each other and mix all that with copious amounts of booze and you have a recipe for disaster.

I predict numerous fights, a possible homicide and the cops shutting down the bars before the end of the first day.
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December 8, 2013 6:44pm
nasska

Odakyu-sen

The problem getting such a study off the ground would be finding sufficient unbiased people to undertake it. The non commie & non bleeding heart realists are so scarce that they would probably rattle around in a small wardrobe.

The outcome of any study by the current group of academics would inevitably find that nothing short of three extra bureaucracies & unlimited taxpayer funding would produce any worthwhile result.

In short….nice idea but already headed off at the pass by the socialists.
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December 8, 2013 6:50pm
Odakyu-sen

naaska–I agree.

In my days of market research, the first thing my boss told me was that “people lie in interviews.”

How do you get around that one? (I guess through observation of the subject, as people’s actions often speak louder than their words.)
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December 8, 2013 6:56pm
Kea

Have any studies be carried out as to why parents are unable to provide the necessities for their children?

Odakyu-sen, numerous studies have identified the reasons:

1. Capitalism

2. White people

3. Men
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December 8, 2013 6:58pm
nasska

….” through observation of the subject”…..

I agree that it would produce a more accurate picture but the challenge would be to find observers who were free from preconceived ideas.

The ‘professionals’ who make up the research & policy arms of the social sciences within NZ don’t even bother trying to pretend that they are unbiased.
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December 8, 2013 7:03pm
Kea

Kea

The devil is in the detail. Short of time limiting the benefit how could legislation be phrased in a way that would enshrine the original purpose of the DPB while excluding the breeders?

nasska, that is the problem. If we only have it for “abused” women, then we will see women getting pregnant and accusing innocent men of “abuse” so they can be on the Benni and still be free to fuck around and have no ties.

I think a short term emergency benefit may be the best thing. Make it reasonably generous but short term. That would help women [with kids] get out of terrible relationships and on their feet. Women are shocking manipulators and schemers who are used to not be held accountable, so some will leave, grab the money, then come back later for another hand out after leaving again. For that reason you only get it once. Also if they shack up with another arsehole, then tough luck. Want to date thugs ?, then suck it up.

Under no circumstances would a woman qualify just for getting knocked up . She has amble time to consider other options during the 9 months. It is not an emergency.
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December 8, 2013 7:12pm
doggone7

Left Right and Centre

A challenge. Forget how many kids Dr. Lance O’Sullivan has and his ethnicity. He’s got a job helping people, he’s making a positive contribution to the community.

Put up or shut: What do you do on a daily basis to help people?
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December 8, 2013 7:14pm
bc

Two people green ticked Harriets 2:25pm comment – shakes head in disbelief.
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December 8, 2013 7:14pm
Kea

bc, but the spirit of the LORDS love is upon Harriet.

LOL 🙂
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December 8, 2013 7:17pm

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