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December 29, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 29 December 2013

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Pete George

Martyn Bradbury has signalled that he may copy Reditt who “banned climate deniers on their site”. This was in response to someone making reasonable points and asking legitimate questions about climate science.

Banning opinions he doesn’t agree with is par for the course at The Daily Blog – Bombing climate change debate

Like the weather climate science will never remain settled, it’s far to complex and will continue to be affected by major natural factors along with debatable human effects.
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December 29, 2013 8:03am
RF

The German tourists have been discharged from hospital suffering from horrific injuries inflicted by cowardly scum. Our gutless media have ignored the elephant in the room and will not identify the race that these savages belong to.

Its time to name and shame. Where were the parents of these mutants when they were attacking the tourists.
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December 29, 2013 8:05am
Scott Chris

Listened to a bit of Chris Laidlaw’s replacement, Wallace Chapman this morning. Nice enough guy, but with a ponderous, laboured delivery and the interviewing skills of a banana.

Whoever appointed him should be sacked.
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December 29, 2013 8:07am
Pete George

I’m not sure why the race of the accused is important, they acted as a small group of individuals, but presuming they are New Zealanders then we can presume there’s a high chance they are mixed race.

Trying to make it into a race issue won’t address the underlying causes of a significant violence culture that has existed across virtually all of the human race for a long long time.
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December 29, 2013 8:09am
Linda Reid

I have been thinking about the CIR and waste of money the referendum was, and I wonder if organisers had to collect $5 or $10 for each signature and contribute it to the cost of the referendum, if that would mean the CIR would actually mean something. You know, the whole putting your money where your mouth is.
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December 29, 2013 8:12am
duggledog

I don’t look at or post on ‘Bomber’s’ low rent site, but if I did I would consider being banned from it a badge of honour. Nothing the guy has to say has any relevance to anybody with a shred of common sense.

The entire left side of politics is currently treading water. They don’t understand that NZ Inc 2013 – 2014 is one of the most envied and admired countries in the world. How anyone could think somebody with no real life experience save tapping away in the dark and plotting with their sad friends could have any real answers on how to ‘make it better’ is utterly beyond me.
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December 29, 2013 8:12am
Pete George

Talking of admiring what seems to be working here:

Experts predict prosperous 2014 for New Zealand

Financial experts are united – next year could be a golden one for the New Zealand economy with all signs pointing to a prosperous 2014.

Commodity prices are booming, businesses are at their most confident in 20 years, the economy is among the world’s fastest growing, jobs and wages are predicted to rise and that confidence is filtering through to consumers who are starting to open their wallets.

New Zealand’s GDP growth was at its highest in four years in the last quarter at 3.5% on the previous year – higher than Australia (2.3%), the US (1.8), Britain (1.5) and Japan at 2.4%.

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/experts-predict-prosperous-2014-new-zealand-5787665

That’s due to sound Government management of the economy – albeit with some massive debt that now needs addressing – and successful agricultural business.
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December 29, 2013 8:18am
duggledog

Scott Chris, Wallace was recently surprised to learn, whilst interviewing someone I can’t remember on Radio Live, that the US had the most powerful military in the world.

His appointment to RNZ Sunday mornings speaks volumes about the organisation. He’s a total left footer, which you would know if you’ve ever tuned into his old slot. It was nothing but a platform to discuss issues attacking the government or the establishment or the average kiwi, almost without exception, from the viewpoint of people like Helen Kelly.
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December 29, 2013 8:19am
Scott Chris

Like the weather climate science will never remain settled, it’s far to complex and will continue to be affected by major natural factors along with debatable human effects.

Oh get off the fence Pete. The physical science is clear in that scientists know how much energy is being added to the earth’s surface due to the increase in greenhouse gases through established theory and laboratory verification.

What they don’t know yet is how and where and when the atmosphere and ocean redistribute that extra energy.
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December 29, 2013 8:23am
duggledog

RF the race of the attackers is not something a journalist would necessarily include in any updates, and there’s no real reason why it should be part of the story.

As soon as they read the headline, 90% of readers would have guessed there’s a 90% chance the offenders would be Maori. Kind of fits a well established pattern by now.
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December 29, 2013 8:24am
Manolo

For KB’s resident feminist:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303997604579240022857012920
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December 29, 2013 8:25am
kowtow

Here’e an example of the MSM climate change alarmism/lie.The title screams climate change while the article itself makes quite clear the true cause of the problem……coastal erosion.

A reference to rising seas and increased storms is there but where’s the evidence.?

To question that one is placed in the same category as a Holocaust “denier”……more newspeak and attempts at mind control.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/12/climate-change-threatens-ghana-coast-2013129114224783683.html
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December 29, 2013 8:45am
Pete George

Scott Chris – remaining open about the science is not fence sitting. Virtually all science remains unfinished business.

They may know approximately how much stored energy is being released by humans, and they may know approximately how much more energy is not released from Earth’s atmosphere due to increased greenhouse effects.

But scientists have no way of knowing what solar fluctuations we will have in the future, they will not know how much natural release of stored energy we have above or below current levels, and they cannot know the overall effect.

They can’t be sure if we can change much by reducing any human effects.

And it’s very difficult to weigh up the beneficial and adverse effects of any climate change, whether it is warming or cooling.

The only certainty about climate is it’s unpredictability. It’s a science with long term effects that must be continually measured and reassessed.
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December 29, 2013 8:49am
wat dabney

“The physical science is clear in that scientists know how much energy is being added to the earth’s surface due to the increase in greenhouse gases”

Laughably wrong.

There many powerful and complex feedback mechanisms, which are understood in only the vaguest terms (along with those which have not yet been discovered), but which are clearly negative.

Hence it is no surprise to the sceptics that the promised global warming never occurred and that the alarmist theory was thus disproven.
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December 29, 2013 8:50am
Scott Chris

There many powerful and complex feedback mechanisms, which are understood in only the vaguest terms (along with those which have not yet been discovered), but which are clearly negative.

Such as?
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December 29, 2013 8:57am
Pete George

Coastal erosion is a danger but it always has been since sea levels started rising since the last ice age ended. I saw a good example covered by Time team recently .

In June 2011, Time Team visited Dunwich on the Suffolk coast, now a sleepy village but once a thriving medieval port and even the capital of East Anglia. Suffolks coast, consisting of some of the UKs youngest and softest rock and battered by North Sea winds, is particularly vulnerable to erosion. Over the centuries, coastal erosion and the silting up of the harbour have had a detrimental effect on Dunwich’s economy, leading to a dramatic decline in its fortunes.

Much of Dunwich’s medieval past has been lost to the sea.

And:

The main process was coastal erosion. Erosion of the coast line had been going on ever since Suffolk became separated from the Netherlands. For the last two thousand years the coast line at Dunwich has receded on average one metre a year. In other words the sea shore is now two kilometres west of its position in Roman times.

For a decade or two you may not notice much change, though it is likely that higher tides will tend to weaken the lower section of the cliff face. Then a major storm will take away several metres of cliff at once. Two or three major storms will remove a couple of streets, associated housing, and perhaps a church.

In the museum in today’s Dunwich there is a magnificent model of the medieval town, as it might have appeared from the air in the twelfth century. Many houses are teetering on the edge of the cliff. With the benefit of hindsight we know they will not be there much longer. Much of the town is contained between the twelfth century shoreline and a line on the model representing where the cliffs were in the sixteenth century. The rest of the town would fall into the sea over the next couple of centuries.

That has been happening long before significant human emissions.
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December 29, 2013 9:00am
Pete George

Hence it is no surprise to the sceptics that the promised global warming never occurred and that the alarmist theory was thus disproven.

That’s bull. Nothing has been promised, and nothing has been disproven. We won’t know if the current predictions for 2050 and 2100 are accurate or not. All we can know for sure is the predictions will continue to be re-evaluated and changed as more scientific research is done and more of the probable effects are understood.
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December 29, 2013 9:04am
Scott Chris

Virtually all science remains unfinished business.

Yes but there’s a point at which facts become reasonably certain, such as the fact that man walked on the moon.

Hedging your bets (disingenuously) is best left to the likes of Colin Craig and Peter Dunne….. Oh I see. Silly me.
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December 29, 2013 9:08am
wat dabney

Scott,

Such as rainfall, cloud cover and other mechanical processes, which utterly dwarf the beyond-trivial effect of an increase in a trace greenhouse gas.

A good presentation of some of this stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVCps_SwD5w

Pete George,

“That’s bull. Nothing has been promised”

I think you’ll find that alarming global warming was promised.
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December 29, 2013 9:13am
Chicken Little

Lol – Easy to see who the REAL deniers are these days. Too funny.
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December 29, 2013 9:16am
Peter

The climate alarmists were wrong. “It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong”. Their alarmist predictions were wrong. We skeptics were right – the science is not settled and it remains unclear how much effect man made c02 has on global temperature.

The fact the intellectual giant Bradbury is a member of the alarmist club is in no way surprising.
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December 29, 2013 9:19am
Chuck Bird

If a man had shot his wife would he be just charged with common assault and allowed out on bail?

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbcri/100349250-mother-of-dead-teen-accused-of-shooting-husband
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December 29, 2013 9:21am
Pete George

Yes but there’s a point at which facts become reasonably certain, such as the fact that man walked on the moon.

The fact that man walked on the moon isn’t science. It’s something that is recorded as having occurred.

An apple falling from a tree can also be observed, but it does nothing to prove what the force of gravity is.

A lump of ice breaking off an Antarctic ice shelf can be observed but it does nothing to prove any climate science.

You were right about one thing.

Silly me.
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December 29, 2013 9:22am
Scott Chris

Such as rainfall, cloud cover and other mechanical processes, which utterly dwarf the beyond-trivial effect of an increase in a trace greenhouse gas.

Wat – you couldn’t be vaguer if you tried. And your discounting of the known feedback effect of trace CO2 exemplifies your lack of understanding in this subject.
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December 29, 2013 9:25am
Scott Chris

It’s something that is recorded as having occurred.

Yes, it’s an empirical fact Pete. Quite a lot of those in science. Apart from which, my reference to the moon landing was a metaphorical analogy not a direct comparison.
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December 29, 2013 9:30am
wat dabney

Scott,

“And your discounting of the known feedback effect of trace CO2 exemplifies your lack of understanding in this subject.

It is precisely these alleged feedback effects which are at the root of the alarmism. Yet these feedbacks exist only in alarmist computer models, they have never been observed in reality.

And indeed, the fingerprints of anthropogenic warming – enhanced warming at the poles and in the troposphere – are notable by their complete absence. In other words, those alleged feedback effects do not exist. The alarmist theory is complete bunk.

Hence it was no surprise to sceptics that the promised warming never happened.

Perhaps you should watch that video I linked to. You might get a clue.

You can fast-forward to about the 17 minute mark, where the energy budget is discussed.
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December 29, 2013 9:31am
RF

Pete George. 8.09am. The identity of the race is important to me as an individual and the non disclosure is confirmation that unfortunately our media is very selective with what they report. The attack was just one of many that is only too common these days and it concerns me that we just roll over and do nothing. Little shits such as these should be taken out of our society.
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December 29, 2013 9:46am
duggledog

‘Seven Sharp’ on TV One received the most complaints out of 68 dealt with by the Broadcasting Standards Authority in 2013. On its own that’s appalling but whatever. It’s a shit programme.

Out of 13 for the programme, five complaints were for Seven Sharp’s childish attack on Colin Craig.

Now to me, statistically, that appears to be quite interesting. That five different individuals would want to defend Colin possibly means he has indeed made an impact in middle NZ.

Then again it could have just been party members!
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December 29, 2013 9:52am
Chuck Bird

“The identity of the race is important to me”

Why
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December 29, 2013 9:52am
Scott Chris

It is precisely these alleged feedback effects which are at the root of the alarmism.

I disagree. The root of the alarmism is in attempted risk management and has backfired somewhat.

Alas for Al Gore and co, herding humans is more like trying to herd cats than sheep.
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December 29, 2013 9:53am
duggledog

RF those ‘little shits’ were probably 5’11” and twelve stone.

They will most likely be taken out of our society eventually (two were juveniles) but not for many years. In the meantime they will each cause plenty of damage to people’s lives. There’s practically nothing to stop them.

Aside from CYF and a family group conference!
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December 29, 2013 9:54am
calendar girl

“The only certainty about climate is it’s (sic) unpredictability. It’s a science with long term effects that must be continually measured and reassessed.”

That’s fair enough as a general statement – but only if the lefties and the World Government enthusiasts move away from their plans to tax everything is sight (using climate change as the excuse) and forcibly redistribute wealth stolen from developed countries to “have-not” nations.

I’m tired of the deception of climate change alarmism with a socialist hidden agenda.
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December 29, 2013 9:56am
lolitasbrother

The Standard
I have never seen such emotional and verbal violence on a blog site than that of Lynn Prentice. I despise him. He makes Bradbury look like a liberal in disguise. Just joking, Bradbury has the highest rate of censorship per response received.
His capacity for abuse and censorship is endless and frightening . The Standard is a very dirty blog , and you should only go there if you are feeling brave, and even tempered.
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December 29, 2013 10:03am
wat dabney

Scott,

It is a fact that alleged (but actually non-existant) runaway positive feedback mechanisms underpin the whole global warming alarmism. Without these, even the most blinkered alarmist is left with nothing, since the direct effects of increasing CO2 are trivial and probably beneficial.

Those feedbacks don’t exist in reality. They only exist in the computer models.

Hence it is no surprise that the promised global warming never happened.

You are your fellow travellers are in the absurd position of defending a theory which has been completely refuted by facts.

So again I invite you to get a clue. You asked me for more information and I provided a link to a pretty detailed presentation. Yet, without even looking at it, you simply came back saying I ‘couldn’t be more vague if I tried.’ Such intellectual dishonesty, wilful ignorance and denial are your defining qualities I’m afraid.
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December 29, 2013 10:06am
Scott Chris

Duggledog, re left bias in the media, yes it is quite prevalent but I see it as a kind of balance to the influence the business community has so it doesn’t really worry me.

And I don’t really care if any particular journalist is left or right leaning (such as Kathryn Ryan or Sean Plunket) as long as they are good at what they do which both Ryan and Plunket are.
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December 29, 2013 10:06am
OneTrack

Pete – “Banning opinions he doesn’t agree with is par for the course at The Daily Blog”

Banning opinions they dont agree with is par for the course for left-wingers generally. Instead of religion, they have their own holy cant which cannot be debated. The Standard is a more extreme example.
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December 29, 2013 10:20am
Maggy Wassilieff

Cruel people..you have forced me to read through that 2014 prediction posting on the Daily Blog. Now I know I am blighted by my fabulous free schooling in pre-NCEA days and learnt one or two things about Formal English, but I have adapted.
I can now cope with misspellings, incorrect use of its and it’s, and even lack of punctuation at times. However, rambling, adjective-loaded clauses that fail to link with the subject of a sentence exhaust me. I find it incredible that some of you folks have been able to decipher meaning from Bradbury’s long-winded confusions.
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December 29, 2013 10:29am
RF

Chuck Bird. 9.52am. These pricks are too close to home. I am a great believer in know thy enemy plus name and shame.

duggledog. 9.54am. So do we just sit around saying tut tut tut. Poor misguided lads. This type of person should be locked up so they never crap in daylight again.
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December 29, 2013 10:30am
Chuck Bird

RF, The question was “The identity of the race is important to me”.

Are you suggest shaming a race because or the action of some of that race?
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December 29, 2013 10:34am
dime

The most anticipated fight in mma history happens this afternoon.

The greatest martial artist of all time lost his belt a few months ago. The rematch happens today.

Today we find out if the first fight was a fluke. Maybe age has caught up with the greatest…

Dime encourages you all to buy it! Unless you’re pg, he should get to knitting class with the rest of the bitches 🙂
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December 29, 2013 10:39am
Odakyu-sen

Chuck wrote: “Are you suggest shaming a race because or the action of some of that race?”

I guess so. After all, some people shame men because of the action of some men… If it works for one segment of society, why not apply it to another.

After all, it would be responsible to warn tourists about the dangers of risky behavior, such as tenting near public parks in small towns where local hoodies like to hang out. If it’s good enough for the police to post notices telling people not to encourage crime, then it should be good enough to warn tourists (in multiple languages) not to encourage crime.
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December 29, 2013 10:49am
RF

Chuck Bird. 10.34am. Short answer. Yes … on the understanding that they be treated with caution until they prove that they are law abiding. If it walks like a duck sounds like a duck etc…its a duck.. . Would you walk up to a pack of wild dogs to pat one if you knew that some had recently attacked people.

I believe Odakyu – Sen has summed it up.
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December 29, 2013 11:00am
kowtow

PG says

“The only certainty about climate is it’s unpredictability”.

Oh well there goes the seasons then…..

FFS!
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December 29, 2013 11:20am
Reid

Experts predict prosperous 2014 for New Zealand

Financial experts are united – next year could be a golden one for the New Zealand economy with all signs pointing to a prosperous 2014.

What’s the bet these are the same “experts” who failed to foresee the 2007 sub-prime calamity. Sadly for them and us, another is on the way and it’s going to hit overseas sometime in 2014 I predict in Q1 or Q2. The only reason stocks are doing well in the US is because with interest rates at zero there is no point in keeping cash deposits so it’s all gone into stocks. Plus the only reason corporates are making profits is because the only game in US corporate town at the moment are share buybacks and other balance sheet manoeuvres, they are not investing in plant and other capital projects.

Plus the QE they have engaged in has so weakened the USD the BRICS and other countries are now requiring payment in things other than the USD, thus weakening its ability to continue to stand in the market as the world reserve currency, and that status adds an estimated 20% to its value.

So when the market crashes as it will, because there are no fundamentals supporting it, there are no tools left with which to recover and the smart money (i.e. those who did predict 2007) is saying it will be worse than 1929 because of the debt we are all carrying which was nothing like it was in 1929.

The only good news for us is that when it does crash, commodities are expected to be where the money is switched to, although with no-one having spare readies to purchase the outputs, how long they will remain a good investment is anyone’s guess.

But all of that will precipitate geopolitical instability and remember what I’ve been saying: the next war will start with nukes it won’t end with them. By 2020 you won’t recognise the world, it will be a very different place.
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December 29, 2013 11:37am
wf

Hey Dime, what’s mma?

Can I watch it while I knit?
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December 29, 2013 11:40am
Pauleastbay

Three of the four arrested are from Opotiki the 4th from Whakatane.

The name suppression will lapse, I believe their initial appearance will have been before a J.P or Community Magistrate and suppression is 99.9% given until they appear before a Judge.
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December 29, 2013 11:46am
Pauleastbay

These pricks are too close to home. I am a great believer in know thy enemy plus name and shame.

Rf

If you could get your hand off it for 5 minutes. Knowing their name will do what for you. I will know these arse holes but so what? What “shame” will be added by their names getting out there. You are dealing with people who don’t have shame .

Yes all 4 will be maori’s , do my wife and kids have to bear some guilt because they are from the town where 3 of them live ? Stop being a tosser. If you feel so strongly about, stand in The Strand and warn all the tourists about the “horis’
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December 29, 2013 11:53am
Reid

Something for those who still hallucinate it’s Morning in America. Powell’s former Chief of Staff tells it like it is.

http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/12/28/the-reality-behind-the-us-foreign-policy-and-its-military/
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December 29, 2013 12:05pm
Sofia

A Kapiti Coast school is surveying parents about plans for classroom wi-fi after a young pupil died from brain cancer.

The parents of Ethan Wyman, who died 11 months after being diagnosed with two brain tumours, want wi-fi removed from classrooms at Te Horo School.

The board of trustees has now sent out a survey to all parents, after the Wymans expressed fears that the radiation effect of wi-fi could be linked to cancer.

But the Ministry of Education, which has been at community meetings held by the school alongside the Ministry of Health, says research shows wi-fi is safe.
Damon Wyman, who still has two children at the school, says Ethan was diagnosed with the tumours three months after he was given a wi-fi-connected iPod.

His parents later discovered he had been falling asleep with it under his pillow. Even though it was on standby, it was still emitting bursts of radiation as it tried to connect to the router, Mr Wyman said.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/kapiti/9533808/Parents-of-boy-with-tumour-want-wi-fi-out-of-school

Is the report on “wi-fi safety and schools” in the same place as the “NZ provision for deep-sea drilling mishaps”?

PS – Does an iPod which is automatically ‘powered-off’, still continually scan a wi-fi connection?
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December 29, 2013 12:07pm
Fletch

The identity of the race is important to me as an individual and the non disclosure is confirmation that unfortunately our media is very selective with what they report.

What is interesting, is that in America, black people have been attacking whites in what they refer to as “the knockout game”, where the aim is to knock out a white person with one punch. There has been much silence around this until – you guessed it – the first person to be charged playing the “game” is a white person who knocked out a black person. This is after dozens of black-on-white attacks provoked no response from authorities.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/26/federal-authorities-charge-white-knockout-suspect-/#ixzz2obSILwX2
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December 29, 2013 12:13pm
OneTrack

Scott – “Alas for Al Gore and co, herding humans is more like trying to herd cats than sheep.”

So Al Gore and co think we are sheep? Explains a lot.
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December 29, 2013 12:19pm
Manolo

99% chance the thugs are Maori, although their whanau will claim they are the usual “good kids”.
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December 29, 2013 12:38pm
Chuck Bird

RF, Do you accept that homosexuals offend disproportionately against underage adolescents? If this was accepted there would there would be a few less victims. If seems hypocritical that many of the libertarians on this blog call anyone who points out bad statistics about homosexuals but ignore racism spouted by anonymous bloggers who are ashamed of there views that is why they will not use there own names. I suspect some of the libertarians who are so concerned about matters homosexual would be openly anti Maori and not just turn a blind eye to anti Maori racism.

It is a fact that Maori are overrepresented in crime statistics by a factor of about three. Can you explain what positive benefit will be achieved by the media giving the race of the accused? I can think of some negative consequences. For example making it harder for Maori who are not criminals to get employment or accommodation.
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December 29, 2013 12:41pm
Manolo

AGW responsible for this too: http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/12/27/2013-shatters-the-record-for-fewest-tornadoes-15-lower-than-previous-record/
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December 29, 2013 12:49pm
Manolo

I have never seen such emotional and verbal violence on a blog site than that of Lynn Prentice.

Be proud of having been censored by the rainbow-delicate Lynn, a member of GLAAD:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/12/life_on_glaads_blacklist.html
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December 29, 2013 12:55pm
Odakyu-sen

Who would be dumb enough not to give someone a job because of their race? Good workers are very hard to find; in fact, we have to import a lot of them as they are so scare in this country.

It’s the colour of their attitude that I’m concerned about; not the colour of their skin. (Attitude to outsiders who stray on to “their turf.” Attitude towards anyone who makes eye contact with them. Attitude to anyone who objects to their behavior. Attitude towards anyone who fails to obey their rules.)
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December 29, 2013 12:57pm
wikiriwhis business

‘The most anticipated fight in mma history happens this afternoon.’

If you talking Ronda Rousy, she’s just not fighting in Strike Force, Man, she IS Strike Force.

My mind was blown wide open when she described how no one wanted to know her in the gym when she first turned pro in MMA. She’s a fourth dan black belt judoka with an olympic medal record of Bronze and Silver.

The list of her career CV is enormous. She’s won everything she’s ever fought in. These geeks in the gym acted like she had never seen a gym before. Can you even measure that kind of ignorance. They should have been lining up for her autograph. She also now has Hollywood contracts for two movies already to screen here in January.

Dana White stated in ten years there will be women in the Octagon. Ronda will be one of them. She sold $750,000 worth of tickets for one fight without promotion. She is Rowdy Ronda Rousy.
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December 29, 2013 12:58pm
itstricky

It’s the colour of their attitude that I’m concerned about; not the colour of their skin.

But you’ve just lumped a whole bunch of human beings (that is – people, like everyone else, like you, like me, like RF, like Chuck Bird) into a group and then attributed values, attitude and a set of beliefs to that entire group rather than to the individual human beings within that group. Notice how you’ve used the word “their” quite a lot. That’s a subconcious thing given to you by your upbringing. Them against us rather than a bunch of human beings – some good, some bad but not grouped into containers. That’s where it spreads from. And that’s were you’ve kinda gone wrong from the get go.
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December 29, 2013 1:11pm
david

Re the importance of race disclosure, perhaps the same emphasis on whakapapa should be applied as those who have done something to be proud of are so delighted to remind us. identifying family and tribal linkages might bring a bit of the social ramifications that occur when families experience shame and the negatives that result from poor upbringing.
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December 29, 2013 1:26pm
Reid

that’s were you’ve kinda gone wrong from the get go.

No not really, since stereotypes are useful for analysing human behaviour and they’re used all the time by everyone. for example: Mexican immigrants, Muslims, Maori, the unemployed, bankers, rich pricks, conservatives, lefties, Germans, Jews, etc etc etc etc etc.

Of course if you don’t understand the limitations of stereotyping for social analysis then you’re a profound idiot, but insisting they should not be used is equally idiotic and simply betrays a blind adherence to political correctness which furthermore is hypocritical, since those who adhere to political correctness use them as much as anyone else: e.g. bankers, conservatives and rich pricks. Such people seem to hallucinate that when they use them they’re so vastly intelligent that they can use them correctly, whereas when the great unwashed use them, it’s a travesty of great magnitude, because those who aren’t politically correct have neither the intelligence nor the training to use them “correctly.” Which is ironic when you think about it because that’s a stereotype in itself, isn’t it.
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December 29, 2013 1:31pm
Odakyu-sen

I’ll take a seat. Reid’s got this one.
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December 29, 2013 1:33pm
itstricky

No not really, since stereotypes are useful for analysing human behaviour

Of course. In correct, scientific, circumstances for example. But this is a blog. A collection of rants. And RF wants to know the race of some perps. presumably so he can rant and rave and feel like he’s doing some good in the world (but, in fact, he would just be reinforcing the reverse)

since those who adhere to political correctness use them as much as anyone else: e.g. bankers, conservatives and rich prick

By introducing political correctness into the equation you’ve essentially just outed your own definitions of the groups you believe in. You’ve provided a stereotypical group of “politically correct” individuals who only apply groupings to “bankers, conservatives and rich pricks” and not “Germans, Jews and Maori” thereby showing what you believe is your “us” against “them”. Again, all individual human beings who just “believe” in some things – with a lot of cross over inbetween but, to your mind, they are groups of people to whom you’re either with or against – no middle ground.
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December 29, 2013 1:41pm
Sofia

If two vicious bashings occur – say, rape and teeth smashed out, and possessions taken in each case – but one is a new Zealander and the other a tourist, should the sentence on conviction be the same?

Or should the second crime automatically attract additional penalities.
As perhaps an attack on a police officer, or paramedic?

Is the attack on the tourist also a violation of everyone else’s sense of hospitality and responsibility, as well as being an attack on tourism.

But then is just a New Zealander, a lesser victim?

So as well as being concerned about the perpetrators ethnicity, what about the actual crime v others?
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December 29, 2013 2:02pm
nasska

itstricky

Without getting too involved, the use of stereotypes is a survival mechanism which has served the human race well. It is hard wired in each & everyone of us.

The fact that humans can communicate allows previous learning to be shared…..not all of us have to put our hands in boiling water to find out that it’s hot & harmful…..not all of us have to be bitten by a snake to appreciate that those of a certain type & colouring are poisonous.

Your half baked political correctness would rob us of the ability to discern the danger groups of sub human young thugs present as opposed to groups of boy scouts.

The fact that the subject is being debated on a blog is of no consequence.
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December 29, 2013 2:07pm
itstricky

Your half baked political correctness would rob us of the ability to discern the danger groups of sub human young thugs present as opposed to groups of boy scouts.

You are extropolating my statements out to the Nth degree (i.e. all the way back to evolution) and then proclaiming that it is untennable.

A young human thug is easily identified as that without needing to know its name, race or religion.

You’re also introducing political correctness into the picture which has not a lot to do with it.
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December 29, 2013 2:16pm
nasska

In fact, Pauleastbay @ 11.53am is the only commenter to put up a coherent reason why residents & visitors to this country are not warned by neon signs three metres high of the dangers the Tangata Whenua present.

If death & injury were caused on a similarly regular basis by bungy jumping, driving or diet, rest assured that the activity & its promoters would be the subject of TV campaigns & leaflets in doctors’ surgeries nationwide.
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December 29, 2013 2:19pm
nasska

….”A young human thug is easily identified as that without needing to know its name, race or religion.”….

But don’t we owe it to tourists & ourselves to make identifying the threat as simple as possible.

OSH should be on to this!
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December 29, 2013 2:22pm
Chuck Bird

@Reid, According to you I am profound idiot because I have a lot of difficulty understand what you are trying to say.

In the 1960s I seen ads in the paper for flat saying no dogs and no Maoris need apply. I knew of a case of a professional woman of Maori decent who rang about a flat and asked if it was still available and was told she had to come to the office which was a distance away. She asked why and they told her that what to see potential tenants first and as she did not sound Maori over the phone the agent mentioned the landlord did not want Maori.

Another time when she was being shown flats they would take her to a dump in a bad neighbourhood and not like it when she refused to look at it. There are laws against that now so it is a lot more difficult for that type of blatant racism to occur. Few agents would risk it but landlord doing their own letting still do.

Can you explain in ordinary English how stating the race of a person particularly if they are Maori accused or even found guilty of a crime will benefit New Zealand? I can understand if there is a race of immigrants involved in certain crime. People can lobby government to restrict immigration from a certain group.
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December 29, 2013 2:25pm
itstricky

But don’t we owe it to tourists & ourselves to make identifying the threat as simple as possible.

What, by sticking up signs warning about particular groups of humans? So we should stick warning signs outside Catholic churches saying “warning: don’t bring pre-pubescent boys here”?

And not really any comment on my last comment.

Again, good people in the world, bad people. Bad people are not defined by their names, races, religions or well any other factor.
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December 29, 2013 2:41pm
aitkenmike

@Whiri

You are a bit behind there. Strikeforce doesn’t exist anymore, and Rousey is the co-main event defending her UFC belt against Miesha Tate. I’m expecting her to pretty much dominate this fight, wouldn’t surprise me if she broke Tate’s arm again tonight.

Can’t pick between Browne and Barnett, but should be a great fight, but Silva v Weidman will be huge. I’m expecting Silva to clown less than the first fight (but will still do it to some extent) and kick Weidman’s front leg into jello. If that happens I think Silva wins at some point in the championship rounds.

Your thoughts Dime?
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December 29, 2013 2:41pm
nasska

….”Again, good people in the world, bad people. Bad people are not defined by their names, races, religions or well any other factor.”….

Races & religions are hard to pin down as being major contributors to the occurrence of violence, mostly because it is considered to be offensive to debate the elephant in the room. This snivelling sensitivity is the product of university educated theoretical socialists everywhere.

So let’s take the safe route…..do you deny that “cultural” factors may have an influence on the violent antisocial attitudes displayed by some of our “cultural” groups?
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December 29, 2013 2:50pm
MH

but when Hone and Tariana Turia keep talking about “our people” don’t we all want to identify her/their people. Note most of these attacks are racially targeted against Euros. Why is that? Let’s be honest. Or are these attacks random or statistically bound to occur by youths of any race under diminished responsibility because of the availability of drugs.
Derek Fox on the Maori channel called me “the sons of thieves’. Bias and prejudice handed on through oral history.Is this just the result of greed,jealousy or pent up frustation and retaliation coming to the boil? Pretty sustained attack beyond the need to get away. And in court we will hear voices giving support to them? Kia Kaha. I don’t think my mum and dad would be there giving me any support if I did this. 175 yrs of colonial oppression and lack of respect? Segregated Schools where no European male teachers are available, no little white boys and girls to play with and we expect this not to happen? League teams in Akld where the only Euros are the match officials and coaches.
No. These are racially motivated attacks and that’s the inconvenient truth.
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December 29, 2013 3:12pm
Reid

Can you explain in ordinary English how stating the race of a person particularly if they are Maori accused or even found guilty of a crime will benefit New Zealand?

Chuck my 1:31 was a comment on stereotypes as they are used in real life, not on its appropriateness in a given situation. I don’t have any opinion on your question since that’s not the point I was making.

If you want a very good example on people who shouldn’t use stereotypes because they’re not intellectually equipped so to do, I suggest you look at itstricky’s comments about following my 1:31. S/he’s made all sorts of stereotypical assumptions about not just me and how I think without even knowing me, but also about the motivations of someone called “RF.” If I used stereotypes like s/he does why I’d probably think he was just an insane galloping mental with a dribbling problem but of course I don’t think that at all.
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December 29, 2013 3:12pm
Odakyu-sen

In partial response to naaska re cultural/learned behavioral/human-nature factors

Put one hoodie in a small NZ town and he’ll eventually climb out and seek his fortune elsewhere. Put 4 (four should be enough) hoodies in a small NZ town and none of them them will ever get out. Just was one begins to break away, the others will pull him back down again.

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
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December 29, 2013 3:16pm
nasska

Odakyu-sen

There’s a good dollop of truth to what you write. The attitude is most destructive in schools & colleges where the brighter & hard working students are bullied into the ways of the no-hopers.

Then there are no prospective leaders other than the thugs at the bottom of the swamp.
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December 29, 2013 3:25pm
marcw

Interesting how a group of cowardly thugs accused of attacking a defenceless young couple are granted name suppression “because it is their first court appearance” according to PEB, yet another NZ woman who is not Maori and who allegedly shot her husband, is named (and granted bail) at her first court appearance. Please expain the double standard.
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December 29, 2013 3:46pm
Chuck Bird

@MH,There can be no doubt that Hone, Turia, Fox and other Maori are racist. I do not think that justifies white people being racist. I do not want Maori seats on a local or National level. However, highlighting without purpose a fact that everyone knows is racist. Do you want to be considered in the same category as the above? You sound like a politician. That is because an opposition MP does something wrong it justifies them doing the same.
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December 29, 2013 3:50pm
Chuck Bird

@marcw, Maybe her lawyer did not ask for name suppression.
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December 29, 2013 3:52pm
nasska

marcw

From Paul’s comment:

….”I believe their initial appearance will have been before a J.P or Community Magistrate and suppression is 99.9% given until they appear before a Judge.”…..

The inference is that it is probably the limited legal expertise of those lay people rather than the severity of the charges that dictates initial name suppression. It’s too late to decide later that valid reasons existed to suppress names/details of the accused.
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December 29, 2013 3:57pm
Odakyu-sen

“A good objective of leadership is to help those who are doing poorly to do well and to help those who are doing well to do even better.” -Jim Rohn

In NZ, we get Jim’s quote half right.
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December 29, 2013 3:57pm
nasska

Odakyu-sen

Peer pressure is an enormous influence in a young adult’s life, both for good & bad. It is after all how they test their position in their society & they will adjust their behaviour according to the responses of their fellows.

I find it depressing to realise that a bunch of self serving feminist teachers are often the only “positive” role models for kids from families where school is viewed as little more than a free child minding service.

The fact that any of them succeed is testament to the manner in which some humans can find a way to rise above crappy circumstances.
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December 29, 2013 4:18pm
Manolo

Another feral on the loose: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11179174
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December 29, 2013 4:45pm
Manolo

Greenpeace, communist Greens, and fellow travelers Forest & Bird will rejoice these eco-terrorists are back home: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11179153
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December 29, 2013 4:47pm
stephieboy

Manolo since your so fond of demonizing and labeling others would it be Ok to do you likewise – Conservative, extreme rightwing nuts and fellow travelers…etc. ?
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December 29, 2013 5:48pm
nasska

Some info & pictures from the Akademik Shokalskiy which became trapped in ice off the coast of Antarctica near Stillwell Island with a pack of climate alarmists on board. Ref: http://www.shipwrecklog.com/log/ (scroll about halfway down the page)

Regrettably a rescue is underway……surely a pack of know all wanking scientists such as these would have enjoyed a few months experiencing the sea ice they forecast as having disappeared by now due to AGW. 🙂
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December 29, 2013 6:44pm
stephieboy

Climate alarmist vs Climate Deniers.?? Can you confirm or deny that e.g the Koch Brothers are both behind and funding the Climate Denial movement .?
Is it also the agenda of deniers to pave the way for a totally unfettered and unregulated access to planet earth’s physical resources without any regard to issues of e.g sustainability and negative effects of environmental impacts.???
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December 29, 2013 6:54pm
Fletch

What, by sticking up signs warning about particular groups of humans? So we should stick warning signs outside Catholic churches saying “warning: don’t bring pre-pubescent boys here”?

Probably more beneficial for a sign outside the seminary saying, “not hiring homosexuals for priestly positions”.
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December 29, 2013 7:00pm
wat dabney

“Is it also the agenda of deniers to pave the way for a totally unfettered and unregulated access to planet earth’s physical resources without any regard to issues of e.g sustainability and negative effects of environmental impacts.???”

Rumbled.
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December 29, 2013 7:01pm
RF

Chuck Bird. 2.25pm. Re my desire to know the race of the savages that attacked the German Tourists. Pure and simple It’s because I want to know … What I do with this information is my business. Nothing sinister or a witch hunt. If the court does not suppress this information I have a right to know. For all I know the savages could be from outer Mongolia. Whatever their race I believe that they are scum sucking cowardly arse holes.

Don’t get carried away and try and work out my reasons. I just like to be informed.
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December 29, 2013 7:05pm
nasska

What I do know ‘stephieboy’, is that right behind the alarmists stand the UN commie proponents of World Government & their goal of taxing western civilisation out of existence.

Until I see proof (not half baked computer models) I’ll continue to regard AGW as a hoax promoted by dishonest slimebuckets with an agenda.
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December 29, 2013 7:06pm
Manolo

The same stephie who is a member of the Young Nats (if such absurdity is possible)?
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December 29, 2013 7:18pm
OneTrack

stephieboy – “Can you confirm or deny that e.g the Koch Brothers are both behind and funding the Climate Denial movement .?”

Which brothers? What funding? What movement?

All I see is a few people who yearn for the old days when science was based on emperical measurements and predictions tested against reality. With climate “science” (sic), all we have are some sort of psuedo-science by vote (for funding reasons?), and “models” which simply dont predict reality and seem to depend on feedback mechanisms which dont seem to exist.
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December 29, 2013 7:31pm
stephieboy

massaka and manolo .! all that needs to be said is that both your views represent the lunatic fringe of far right thinking and do not represent ( thank god.!) mainstream and rationally based thinking within the National Party
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December 29, 2013 7:34pm
Manolo

Shame on you, stephie. It’s people like you, “sheeple” without independence of mind, who are failing the National Party and veering it more and more towards the left.

Gone are the days where the Nats could be called right of centre. The moniker Labour Lite fits very well today.
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December 29, 2013 7:38pm
nasska

Crikey….you need broad shoulders to comment here. Baity reckons I’m “marxist leftist scum” & stephieboy has got me pigeon-holed as “the lunatic fringe of far right “.

There must be some middle ground somewhere! 🙂
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December 29, 2013 7:43pm
Manolo

@nasska: I reckon you are just in the middle of “the lunatic fringe of far right “. I mean fringe. 😀
C’mon, mate. stephie is just a callow youth getting a degree on women’s studies at some dodgy university.
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December 29, 2013 7:47pm
nasska

Thanks Manolo…..I needed reassurance. 🙂
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December 29, 2013 7:49pm
Longknives

Here comes Nasska…3.2.1
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December 29, 2013 8:00pm
nasska

The Year 3 pupils were bombarding the teacher
with questions about her newly pierced ears.

“Does the hole go all the way through?”

“Yes.”

“Did it hurt?”

“Just a little.”

“Did they stick a needle through your ears?”

“No, they used a special gun.”

Silence followed, and then one solemn voice called out,

“How far away did they stand?”

and another voice,

“Did they do both ears with one shot?”
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December 29, 2013 8:00pm
Fletch

re: the climate – I see that not only has that Russian expedition ship (with Kiwis onboard) been stuck in the Antarctic ice, but the Chinese icebreaker sent to free it got stuck, too, and the French rescue ship was also called off. Now their rescue is dependant solely on an Australian ship.

http://www.aysor.am/en/news/2013/12/28/antarctic-ice-breaker/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11179140

But don’t worry – nothing to see here; we’re worried about global warming.

The expedition to gauge the effects of climate change on the region began November 27. The second, and current leg of the trip, started December 8 and was scheduled to conclude with a return to New Zealand on January 4.
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December 29, 2013 8:03pm

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