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December 13, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 13 December 2013

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General Debate

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tas

The Herald reports that Sam Blackman was stopped by Customs when returning to NZ and all his electronics were confiscated without reason. He suspects it is due to his active involvement in an anti-snooping conference.

He claims that Customs asked for his passwords, which he gave to them. Is that legal?

The story has been carried by international news sites and made it to #2 on the front page of reddit. It’s not a good look for NZ.

I sincerely hope there is a good explanation, but it hasn’t been forthcoming from Customs.

Thoughts?
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December 13, 2013 8:01am
iMP

No rainbows over Australia. http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/aussies-overturn-gay-marriage/
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December 13, 2013 8:01am
duggledog

‘House Pops Up On Far North Beach’

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171635

‘The owners of the house were not on-site, and a building inspector signed off the work-sheet before concrete for the foundation timber was poured. “They [council] check for boundary pegs, siting, the depth of your holes and all that carry-on, and they gave us a full pass … They didn’t even pull us up on it,” Mr O’Neill said.’

Council inspectors. Je-sus Christ! Bet he doesn’t lose his job though
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December 13, 2013 8:05am
Pete George

As usual Standard authors can make any unsubstantiated accusations they want to but if anyone questions them on it or asks questions about their links to Labour the Double Standard’s Stalin shoots. A tad over-sensitive perhaps.
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December 13, 2013 8:06am
Longknives

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171627

Quax- “It seems that his (Browns) entitlement mentality has not changed. He has no reason to stay overnight in a hotel when he has a car and driver at his disposal 24/7,”
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December 13, 2013 8:06am
Azeraph

Frikkin phone. @ Tas

That’s not good for customs. It stinks of the GSB
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December 13, 2013 8:06am
tvb

But the High Court did clear the way for Parliament to legislate on the matter of marriage to be between two natural persons. That would permit legislation for “gay” marriage without further legal challenge. So the case has been useful.
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December 13, 2013 8:07am
kowtow

In other news from Oz it would seem that strange cult has a New Zealand connection.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2522483/Children-Australian-incest-cult-living-deformed-mute-valley.html
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December 13, 2013 8:07am
flipper

Some things make me grumpy. Some leave me speechless, while others leave me with the feeling that many media outlets, circa 2013/14, would abandon the age old principles that underpin our system of justice in favour of a headline.

So, with apologies in advance to those who lost their lives at Pike River, RANT MODE ON:

“The main stream media have reached a new nadir in referring to the Pike River mine prosecution withdrawal and the $110,000 solatiums for each family, as “blood money”.
This description is a gross misrepresentation, if not a deliberate lie.
The families of the Pike River disaster have already received $8 million via charitable donations, $ 5 million via ACC, and have $15 million further ACC payments “in the bank” to come. This amounts to $1,075,517 for each of the persons lost – far more than paid in respect of any other tragedy (I suspect). ACC is far from perfect or equitable in many circumstances. But absent ACC the Workers Compensation (as it was known) Act would still be in its very early litigation stages, with no likelihood of an immediate settlement (for better or worse).

The prosecution of Whittall was always going to fail because the evidential link could never be made between criminality and cause. Health and safety trial aspects appear to have been compromised by Labour Department culpability.
It is time that Monk and his fellow blood suckers took note of the fact that it is they who are involved in “blood money” – not the previous mine owners, nor directors, nor Whittall.

Let it go. New Zealand has been generous on this issue. But with this latest Monk charade, so far as I am concerned, never again.”
… RANT MODE OFF !
Question: Where does this leave Cunners and his “promise” to get shareholders to pay????
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December 13, 2013 8:09am
Longknives

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171609

“Craig’s credentials as a serious politician were further eroded when he was reported recently as saying he admired Sarah Palin – one of America’s Most Whacky.”

What the fuck? Was this actually written by a major newspaper’s ‘Political Editor’? Or was it written by a twelve year-old??
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December 13, 2013 8:10am
duggledog

Kowtow:

New Zealand IS a strange cult!
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December 13, 2013 8:12am
Azeraph

Pallins a hot chick
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December 13, 2013 8:12am
tvb

I agree flipper. The media are giving prominence to those who are in full victim mode. As you said “let it go” because the goodwill of the community is starting to fray.
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December 13, 2013 8:14am
iMP

Flip flop Sam Johnson (Young New Zealander of the Year 2012) gets a redirection. At one time offered a National candidacy but publicly supported Labour candidates, often over his fellow iCitz team. Some very hurt people in Sam’s wake recently. But hugs to him. He’s still young and perhaps a little naive when it comes to politics. Sam you have a good heart, but huge public profiles demand a high degree of stewardship.

Sam J. gets a dis.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/sam-johnson-gets-a-dis/
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December 13, 2013 8:15am
Nostalgia-NZ

The decision to drop the prosecution wasn’t a Government one. Crown Law prosecute not the Government. It was a wise and pragmatic decision. At best Whittall was a scape coat for a ‘sinking lid’ policy of worksite safety policing – a situation that has a new remedy in place, hopefully practical and not overburdened with red tape and scarce of practicality as often happens when knees jerk.
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December 13, 2013 8:17am
hj

That “cult” or behavioural throwback makes you wonder what is human?. I ‘m not one who believes we are an egg planted by God. Where was the incest taboo which is (or so I thought) built in?
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December 13, 2013 8:40am
Manolo

Transparency above all: http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/white-house-press-corp-angrily-confronts-press-secretary-ove
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December 13, 2013 8:42am
Manolo

And this clown is a Minister of the Crown!
http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8770415/anger-over-mandela-death-picture
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December 13, 2013 8:46am
peterwn

tas – re Sam Blackman’s case. Declaring some loose tea would not have precipitated a ‘customs’ as distinct from ‘biosecurity’ search, but his claim that customs said they were not interested in the tea sounds a bit suspicious – it would be regarded as a potential biosecurity issue and be taken for destruction as a matter of course (as long as it was declared there would be no other consequences). Nevertheless, assuming Sam’s situation is as he claims any security agencies involved seem to have blundered. The scenario seems to suggest that a security agency somewhere latched on to his attendance at an anti-snooping conference and tipped off SIS/ GSCB/ NZ Police, who then blundered and exposed their modus operandi by asking the NZ Customs to seize his electronic stuff. In other words, the security agencies have been caught with their hand in the till. In a case such as this, surely the intention is to keep the suspect under covert surveillance – the British agency involved is probably fuming at the NZ agencies’ ineptness.

I doubt that the customs guy can demand passwords / PIN’s on the spot (but can request), but they could be lawfully demanded later on depending on circumstances.
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December 13, 2013 8:52am
Harriet

As it turns out, gay boys don’t usually kill themselves simply because people reject them for being gay.

As the vast majority of people really don’t care what anybody does in their private sex life.

Homophobia is far less powerful than the reigning callousness and indifference of society to what’s going on with other people, really. So gay boys are far more likely to kill themselves, not because people care about their gayness and hate them for it, but rather, because most people don’t care about their gayness at all, other than horny gay men who are much older than they and fuck them up the ass when they aren’t ready to deal with the emotional mine field of homosexuality.

There is still tremendous emotional vulnerability in a boy who is considering gay sex, which isn’t there with girls or boys who are 100% straight.
A boy who starts getting fucked by men finds his whole future rewritten — it is not only an event dealing with one particular partner, but rather, a foundational shift in his imagined future. He will be in the gay community, living by its rules. Once an old man’s penis finds its way into the boy’s anus, the boy has to redefine his life goals, envision a future without women, without children, without access to the cultural mainstays enjoyed by the 99% of the world that isn’t gay and male. He must picture spending his time in the constricted, tiny circle of gay bars, gay associations, and gay cliques, looking for love in a tiny, somewhat incestuous pool of familiar local characters; gay men who will flit in and out of his life, vanishing without a morning call-back one year and then popping up two years later on the arm of his best friend.

There is also the sheer physical change that happens when you are a boy and you first start letting men fuck you. It’s painful. You are being taught how to mix pain and pleasure, which increases the likelihood that you’re going to develop masochistic behaviors. You feel like a different person. As someone who got fucked by a lot of men in their forties and fifties when I was a teenage boy, I speak from real, extensive experience.

I speak crudely because, as the statistics from the Department of Justice and the Centers for Disease Control reveal, the end result of many such gay mentor programs has been many adults inserting their penises into boys’ anuses. Hence there has been a spike in the HIV infection rate of boys aged 13-19, of which 95% result from unprotected anal sex.

Let’s forget HIV for an instant, however, and the overall issues of sexually transmitted diseases. What if there were no STDs at all to be spread from older men to boys through anal and oral sex?

So when you, as a grown man, fuck a boy, you are inflicting a host of potential anxieties on him. You are throwing his masculinity and sexual identity in doubt. You are forcing him to picture himself growing old and dying without having a wife and children, without giving his parents a daughter-in-law and grandchildren — being stuck in a claustrophobic world full of flaky and sleazy men.

The recent statistics from many sources all seem to confirm that man-boy sex is a rampant problem in the gay community, and it’s destroying people’s lives. The Department of Justice found that gay teens are much more likely to be in physically abusive relationships, not to mention emotionally abusive relationships, with one of the key factors the fact that they are involved, so often, in unstable sexual liaisons with men much older than they are. While the report included a statement about the lack of “role models” for gay teens, we must extrapolate a deeper problem that straight researchers might not be able to piece together. Gay teens have role models, but the role models are fucking them. That messes up their heads.

Many of the recent cases involving gay foster dads or gay mentors who sexually abused boys do not reflect a sinister, evil psychology in the adult gay male, but rather a frighteningly innocent belief on the part of the adult that the youth wanted to get fucked and somehow fucking him was part of helping him.

The gay male adult, fed a steady diet of LGBT narratives about people being born gay and deserving sexual gratification as a civil right, cannot comprehend that what they believe and feel isn’t exactly the same as what the child is believing and feeling. Since so much argumentation about gay parenting has hinged on the notion of “gay couples providing a loving home,” many gay adults charged with youths get lost in the nebulous meaning of “loving.” They have been prompted to believe that if what they do to young people comes from affectionate motives, it’s good. Which is a very convenient way to talk oneself into fucking a boy, unfortunately.

The media support and “celebration” of the gay “lifestyle” merely encouraged boys to go out and get fucked up the ass by older men, with the result that now a lot of them are going to die from AIDs.

One of the top indicators of HIV infection risk is a tendency to date much older or much younger than oneself, and this makes sense for a basic reason: the kind of men who disregard the taboo against men fucking boys will usually also disregard other ethical limitations to their gratification, seeing limits as unfair or prejudiced. Condoms disappear somewhere in the confusion — and no, making people feel less guilty about doing something doesn’t make what they do safer, as the recent statistics shockingly tell us.
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December 13, 2013 8:56am
iMP

Has Tim Barnett Lab. Sec gone into real estate?

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/has-labour-gone-into-real-estate/
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December 13, 2013 8:59am
peterwn

See:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171635
[house removal firm plonks house on wrong lot]

“But they didn’t want to buy it. They didn’t see the potential. Once I finish the place they’ll probably think they should have bought it.”

They sure did not see the potential. The house had become a ‘fixture’ ie part of the land so the lot owner could have claimed ownership and left it to the company to find another house for its client.
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December 13, 2013 9:04am
Yoza

tas (414 comments) says:
December 13th, 2013 at 8:01 am

The Herald reports that Sam Blackman was stopped by Customs when returning to NZ and all his electronics were confiscated without reason. He suspects it is due to his active involvement in an anti-snooping conference.

He claims that Customs asked for his passwords, which he gave to them. Is that legal?

The story has been carried by international news sites and made it to #2 on the front page of reddit. It’s not a good look for NZ.

I sincerely hope there is a good explanation, but it hasn’t been forthcoming from Customs.

Thoughts?

Looks like a case of intimidation.

peterwn (2,613 comments) says:
December 13th, 2013 at 8:52 am

The scenario seems to suggest that a security agency somewhere latched on to his attendance at an anti-snooping conference and tipped off SIS/ GSCB/ NZ Police, who then blundered and exposed their modus operandi by asking the NZ Customs to seize his electronic stuff. In other words, the security agencies have been caught with their hand in the till. In a case such as this, surely the intention is to keep the suspect under covert surveillance – the British agency involved is probably fuming at the NZ agencies’ ineptness.

I don’t think so, I think this shakedown was meant to have a chilling effect. It would appear that Mr Blackman is being sent a message – “You have come to our attention and we don’t like you!”
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December 13, 2013 9:07am
Gulag1917

Another side to Mandela
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC8qQE4Y2Js
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December 13, 2013 9:08am
OneTrack

Longknives “What the fuck? Was this actually written by a major newspaper’s ‘Political Editor’? Or was it written by a twelve year-old??”

Just another hard-left Herald “journolist” working for the “cause”. Nothing new here.
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December 13, 2013 9:12am
kowtow

yeah Manolo

and TV3 reported he brought a “kiwi” aspect to the proceedings.

More like a clown with that silly head gear.WTF!
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December 13, 2013 9:13am
nasska

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us Harriet….that took courage.
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December 13, 2013 9:16am
Yoza

Harriet (3,142 comments) says:
December 13th, 2013 at 8:56 am

” As it turns out, gay boys don’t usually kill themselves simply because people reject them for being gay.

As the vast majority of people really don’t care what anybody does in their private sex life. … As someone who got fucked by a lot of men in their forties and fifties when I was a teenage boy, I speak from real, extensive experience.”

I was confused by this, but it turns out it was a “cut and paste”.
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December 13, 2013 9:30am
Urban_Redneck

Following on from Harriet’s post. I think I have posted this quote from lesbian author and political commentator Tammy Bruce before, but she makes a salient point:

Frankly, even before the depth of the Catholic Church’s problem became known, it was common knowledge that many gay men pursue sexual relationships with adolescent boys. Why? Based on my experience in the gay community, I believe it’s due to the fact that so many gay men had their first sexual experience as an adolescent with an adult male. That is a traumatic experience, and as long as the wound remains untreated, the victim feels compelled to continually reenact the experience so as to master it or project it onto others
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December 13, 2013 9:30am
kowtow

nasska @916

As usual taking a serious issue and responding with a snide ad hom.
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December 13, 2013 9:37am
Manolo

A Frog is keen to return: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/nicolas-sarkozy/10513239/Nicolas-Sarkozy-my-return-is-destiny-I-dont-have-a-choice.html
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December 13, 2013 9:38am
Sofia

Harriet – I thought it was a convention on kiwiblog, and other blogs, to either link to an article or indicate material is not yours by italicising it.
You have done neither in your long adaptation [or adoption] of material by Robert Oscar Lopez – http://englishmanif.blogspot.co.nz/

And in stealing this man’s material you have slammed you own self goal on it, whereas his point, to which his own writing was better suited of course, was that homosexuals should observe a convention that allows young people to find their own sexuality, rather than have it decided for them, in that homosexuals should play with partners of their own age, just as should heterosexuals.

So avoiding –

… when you, as a grown man, fuck a boy, you are inflicting a host of potential anxieties on him. You are throwing his masculinity and sexual identity in doubt. You are forcing him to picture himself growing old and dying without having a wife and children, without giving his parents a daughter-in-law and grandchildren — being stuck in a claustrophobic world full of flaky and sleazy men.
…

These are all understandings — norms, if you will — that an adult entrusted with children has to walk around with. It has to be second nature. It must be something beyond question, beyond editorial review, beyond negotiation. While women face this issue, it is even more acutely an issue for men, who have a long history, and perhaps biological predisposition, to inject their penis into situations and confuse their own quest for pleasure with their obligation to teach, mentor, and guide young people.
as above: http://englishmanif.blogspot.co.nz/ and others

[maybe of interest to nasska 9:16am, and kowtow 9:37]
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December 13, 2013 9:43am
Harriet

nasska (8,317 comments) says:
December 13th, 2013 at 9:16 am
Thank you for sharing your experiences with us Harriet….that took courage.

Listen up bumpkin…….as you fucken well know – I’m not fucken gay!

Yes, I did pick up after I had posted it that I didn’t place quotation marks around it – and that it read like I had fucken wrote the whole fucken lot all by my fucken self.

Friday 13th. Fuck fuck fuck. 😎
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December 13, 2013 9:47am
Jack5

Whale Oil has an interesting piece today on Hooton and the Chorus campaign.

Hooton, of course, is Radio NZ’s Labour Programme “Right representative” on its political panel.
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December 13, 2013 9:51am
fernglas

Harriet, and anybody else who is listening, it is spelt “fuckin’ ” not “fucken”. Also, the interrogative that New Zealanders and Canadians love to put at the end of their sentences is “eh?” rhyming with day,not “aye” rhyming with fly.
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December 13, 2013 9:53am
Pete George

I doubt that John Key would have been pleased to come back from South Africa to find one of his staffers had by association raised serious questions about his comms team’s use of social media.

It’s also had a spinoff here where Lynn Prebtice and others have implied or accused DPF of using Jason Ede as a secret author and whether National fund Kiwiblog. I don’t know if DPF will address that, he’s been pretty upfront about things like this in the past.

An interesting sideline is whether party comms staff comment here under pseudonyms. There’s nothing to stop them, but it does raise issues about how much freedom they would have to play political games without the PM or MPs really knowing what they are up to.
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December 13, 2013 9:56am
kowtow

Fernglas

The “eh” in NZ may come from Maori,methinks and I never use it.

Many Canadians seem to have adopted it to distinguish their particular American style of speech from their southern cousins.Probably something the Canadian media likes to push?
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December 13, 2013 9:58am
stephieboy

Yoza (983 comments) says:
December 13th, 2013 at 9:30 am

Cut and paste ? or simply plagiarism or more simply put a from of piracy,!
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December 13, 2013 10:06am
stephieboy

Longknives (3,494 comments) says:
December 13th, 2013 at 8:10 am

Actually if one takes the trouble to read the article in its entirety Craig actually emerges as not a to bad fella . This is especially his advocacy for the victims of leaky homes. He does seem to have a social conscience conspicuously lacking from many of the rock apes on the far right who post here,
Mr Craig is entitled ro express his admiration of Sarah Palin but we ( including the media ) are also allowed to draw certain inferences and conclusions.from that.

http://www.alternet.org/story/97907/sarah_palin%27s_9_most_disturbing_beliefs
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December 13, 2013 10:16am
OneTrack

stephieboy – “Mr Craig is entitled ro express his admiration of Sarah Palin but we ( including the media ) are also allowed to draw certain inferences and conclusions.from that.”

And we are allowed to draw certain inferences and conclusions ABOUT the media from their response.
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December 13, 2013 10:18am
jackinabox

McCready vows to take Whittall to court

By Patrice Dougan

9:55 AM Friday Dec 13, 2013

Former accountant, Graham McCready said he will file 29 counts of manslaughter against Peter Whittall.

It comes a day after all 12 charges against him in relation to the 2010 mine disaster were dropped by the Crown.

Mr McCready said he will file the charges in Wellington District Court, as it is closest to where Mr Whittall lives and will help keep costs down.

However, he said there are two matters which need to be addressed before he proceeds with lodging a private prosecution – a $1000 filing fee for which he is seeking public donations; and making contact with the families of the 29 men who lost their lives in the mine explosion to discuss what they want to do.

– APNZ

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171948
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December 13, 2013 10:23am
Fletch

Sarah Palin – one of America’s Most Whacky

Why is Sarah Palin “whacky”? I can’t see where’s she’s been whacky.
She has been characterised as whacky by a comedian, Tina Fey, on Saturday Night Live. Some people seem to think it’s real or something.
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December 13, 2013 10:30am
Manolo

Aussie troughing Greenies doing their bit for Gaia: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/labor-ministers-went-out-in-style-with-their-roundtheworld-goodbye-tours/story-e6frg6n6-1226782023300

In one of the most expensive, the 10-day trip by former climate change minister Greg Combet and ABC newsreader girlfriend Juanita Phillips through France, Belgium and Germany in April has come in at $72,027.
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December 13, 2013 10:34am
wikiriwhis business

Concerning Pike River

Simon Bridges has been silenced because John Key is the silent assassin and wants to kill the story so he can smile at the next elections.

If 29 MP’s had been killed you think the Nat/Lab coalition would have accepted a 3 mill payout?
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December 13, 2013 10:34am
stephieboy

Fletch

Sarah Palin Wacky.?

Find out more here,

http://www.alternet.org/story/104034/the_11_dumbest_things_sarah_palin_has_said_so_far
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December 13, 2013 10:41am
OneTrack

“Why is Sarah Palin “whacky”? I can’t see where’s she’s been whacky.”

Because she is on the right ( hence perceived as a threat ). The lefties (Fey, etc.) feel the need to try and discredit those they disagree with.
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December 13, 2013 10:41am
stephieboy

One Track.

Your wrong. She was never perceived as a threat by the left or anyone but the Republicans and the electorate who saw her as electoral poison.!
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December 13, 2013 10:43am
Fletch

stephieboy, can’t see anything too bad there. Certainly not up with Obama’s calling corpsman a “corpse man”, or his talking about America’s “intercontinental railroad”.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama-isms.htm

Far dumber things than Palin has ever said. Or even Bush.
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December 13, 2013 10:46am
OneTrack

stephieboy – “Your wrong. She was never perceived as a threat by the left or anyone but the Republicans and the electorate who saw her as electoral poison.!”

Yeah, ok.
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December 13, 2013 10:52am
stephieboy

Fletch Obama’s gaffs pale into insignificance compared to Palin’s,

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/a/palinisms.htm.

Sarah failed in the 2008 campaign.

Time to move on. Get over it.!
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December 13, 2013 10:55am
Fletch

Time to move on. Get over it.!

Oh, I have gotten over it. I guess it’s the Herald who haven’t.
And Joe Biden is whackier than Obama, Palin and Bush combined.
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December 13, 2013 11:09am
Fletch

Maybe someone was getting too close –

The Hawaii health official who verified the authenticity of President Obama’s birth certificate has died in a small plane crash, authorities said Thursday.

The plane, with a pilot and eight passengers aboard, went down Wednesday in the water off the Hawaiian island of Molokai, the Maui Fire Department said. The Honolulu Star-Advertiser was among the first outlets to report that the lone fatality was Loretta Fuddy. Tom Matsuda, the interim executive director of Hawaii’s health insurance exchange, later confirmed Fuddy’s death.
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December 13, 2013 11:11am
Manolo

Family love North Korean-style: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/nkorea-executes-kim-jong-un-uncle
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December 13, 2013 11:13am
Fletch

Another in the so-called, “war on Christmas” in the U.S.

An atheist activist group is demanding that a Florida city remove a nativity scene from public property.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a church-state separatist group, has insisted that the creche be immediately taken down from the grounds of Chipley City Hall in Chipley, Fla., charging that it represents a violation of the separation of church and state.

The organization wrote a letter on Dec. 6 to Mayor Linda Cain airing its grievances.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/12/12/officials-refuse-to-back-down-in-battle-with-atheists-over-florida-citys-nativity-scene/

Luckily, the city is fighting back.
Some people just want to suck out the joy of Christmas don’t they…
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December 13, 2013 11:14am
Fletch

And another –

SHAW AIR FORCE BASE, S.C. (CBS Charlotte/AP) — Officials at Shaw Air Force Base are trying to determine what to do about a holiday display after a Nativity scene was taken down last week.

Air Force spokeswoman Lt. Keavy Rake said Tuesday a Nativity display was set up Friday by a group of volunteers from the base chapel at a small lake on the installation. The site was near where a tree lighting ceremony was scheduled Friday evening.

Rake says the Military Religious Freedom Foundation lodged a complaint about the display through the Air Force in Washington.

Paul Loebe, spokesman for the foundation, said the Nativity scene was in violation of the Constitution.

http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/12/10/air-force-base-takes-down-nativity-scene-following-complaint/

The ultimate grinches.
They don’t want to be reminded of the reason for Christmas.
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December 13, 2013 11:16am
itstricky

Fletch there is a rumor going around that Palin was born in Nairobi to a virgin. With a semi-automatic in her little hands, of course – so that she could defend herself. Google it.
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December 13, 2013 11:23am
Fletch

The Nazis tried to take Christ out of Christmas, as well.
It didn’t work.

‘Christmas was a provocation for the Nazis – after all, the baby Jesus was a Jewish child,’ Judith Breuer told the German newspaper Spiegel. ‘The most important celebration in the year didn’t fit with their racist beliefs so they had to react, by trying to make it less Christian.’

The exhibition includes swastika-shaped cookie-cutters and Christmas tree baubles shaped like Iron Cross medals.

The Nazis attempted to persuade housewives to bake cookies in the shape of swastikas, and they replaced the Christian figure of Saint Nicholas, who traditionally brings German children treats on December 6, with the Norse god Odin.

The symbol that posed a particular problem for the Nazis was the star, which traditionally decorates Christmas trees.

‘Either it was a six-pointed star, which was a symbol of the Jews, or it was a five-pointed star, which represented the Soviets,’ Breuer said. It had to go.

The wartime version of the traditional Christmas carol ‘Unto us a time has come’ is still sung. ‘The Nazis took out the references to Jesus and made it into a song about walking through the snow,’ Breuer said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1228630/How-Hitlers-Nazi-propaganda-machine-tried-Christ-Christmas.html

You can see images of their nazi tree baubles and tree ornaments at the link.
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December 13, 2013 11:23am
Colville

Boult is on fire bowling at the Windies. 250 run deficit. NZ could wrap it up today if the weather holds off 🙂
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December 13, 2013 11:26am
Manolo

The dreadful, economy-wrecking alliance of unions and Greens: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/letters-to-the-editor/9512538/Letter-Living-wage-claims-don-t-have-merit
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December 13, 2013 11:30am
Sofia

A Whaleoil Investigation shows that people within the council have questioned Brown’s motives. With a chauffeur driven mayoral car at his disposal 24/7, and a 20 minute trip home, going to a city hotel for the night appears to require a better explanation than “late night, early start”.

Sources close to the story have said that they believe Len Brown wasn’t alone on such occasions.

SkyCity Grand staff were asked about the detail of Len Brown’s stays but they have declined to comment as per their policy on not discussing their guests for privacy reasons.

It is understood Brown’s legal team are attempting to have the additional SkyCity Grand visits classified as private stays, and therefore outside the scope of the EY inquiry.
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/12/len-browns-additional-hotel-nights-questioned/#more-119634

At what point will an Inquiry need to be held into the current Inquiry?
Why is Len Brown consulted. If he finds fault with the Report let him refute it publicly with evidence we can all see.

He said … his integrity would never again be questioned.
– 16 June , 2010
http://www.3news.co.nz/Len-Brown-gives-unusual-apology-over-spending/tabid/419/articleID/161103/Default.aspx
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December 13, 2013 11:31am
Fletch

Criticism by the NY Post over Obama’s behaviour at Mandela’s funeral.

Maybe he went into sugar shock over a Danish pastry.

The president of the United States, leader of the free world, standard-bearer for everything upright, good and wholesome about the nation he leads, lost his morality, his dignity and his mind, using the solemn occasion of Nelson Mandela’s memorial service Tuesday to act like a hormone-ravaged frat boy on a road trip to a strip bar.

In front of 91 world leaders, the mourning nation of South Africa and Obama’s clearly furious wife, Michelle, the president flirted, giggled, whispered like a recalcitrant child and made a damn fool of himself at first sight of Denmark’s voluptuously curvy and married prime minister, Helle Thorning-Schmidt.

Not to be outdone by the president’s bad behavior, the Danish hellcat hiked up her skirt to expose long Scandinavian legs covered by nothing more substantial than sheer black stockings.

With Michelle glowering, the world judging and mental fidelity floating into the abyss, the president leaned into the air space of the cross-legged Danish cupcake, who is known in Copenhagen as a fan of America’s randy TV show “Sex and the City.’’ It was the memorial equivalent of a bodice-ripper.

http://nypost.com/2013/12/12/obamas-flirt-with-danish-prime-minister-is-a-disgrace/
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December 13, 2013 11:31am
Nookin

“Concerning Pike River
Simon Bridges has been silenced because John Key is the silent assassin and wants to kill the story so he can smile at the next elections.
If 29 MP’s had been killed you think the Nat/Lab coalition would have accepted a 3 mill payout?”

Simon Bridges has not been silenced. Simon Bridges has made a statement that the decision not to prosecute was based on legal principles and that he was not part of the process. He has stated that it is not the role of a politician to determine whether somebody is prosecuted. It will come as a significant surprise to the likes of Damian O’Connor, Andrew Little, Bernie Monk and Helen Kelly that politicians cannot direct prosecution’s, determine guilt and imposed penalties through the media. There is nothing more that Bridges really needs to say on this matter. He was consulted after the decision was made and it did not influence it. That was entirely proper.

There have been some particularly inane comments about the decision. The first is that this was a back room deal by lawyers. For a kick off, communications between Crown and defence are never undertaken in a town hall with the public watching. That is the sort of circus that labour seems to want. The reasons for the cancellation of the proceedings were fully canvassed in statements by both counsel. The judge (who showed no sympathy whatsoever to the company when she sentenced it and cannot be accused of any sort of bias) observed that the prospects of a successful prosecution were extremely low. Such a comment is based on the merits of the case and have nothing whatsoever to do with the payment of any money.

I cannot remember if it was Little or Kelly who said that it is up to the courts to decide if somebody is guilty and not lawyers. That is absolute nonsense. You do not clutter the court system up for 26 weeks with a case that the Crown, the defence and the case management judge say will not succeed.

Andrew Little said that the decision exposes inadequacies of the law around corporate liability. Again, that is absolute nonsense. This case has nothing whatsoever to do with corporate liability. The company was prosecuted. It was found guilty. There were no issues as to the prosecution of the company. There were no inadequacies of law in relation to the prosecution, conviction and sentence. The problem with this particular case is attributing criminal culpability to 1 individual only. There is nothing to suggest that there are any legal deficiencies. The problem seems to be entirely evidential with critical witnesses refusing to come back to give evidence. Some of those witnesses would appear to be mineworkers. There are also problems with expert witnesses who cannot agree and whose opinions appear to be based on an incorrect or disputed facts and errors of law.

How Andrew Little can suggest that the introduction of a charge of corporate manslaughter would have sold any issues relating to the prosecution of Whittal is really beyond comprehension.

Hague is incredulous that the decision was based on inadequacy of evidence. He says that there was a mountain of evidence heard by the commission of enquiry and the Department of Labour’s Investigation. May be. However, that evidence does not necessarily establish that Whittal was criminally culpable. The fact that some witnesses may have given evidence before the commission of enquiry is relevant. Critical witnesses do not want to give evidence in the criminal case. They cannot be summonsed to give evidence. What does the Crown do?

Hague also says that Whittal has an obligation to pay compensation regardless of whether he was facing charges. He says that there is a whiff of something absolutely wrong about the idea of justice being for sale. If Mr Hague can point to any legal authority to the effect that Whittal can be sued for damages or compensation then I might reconsider my view that he is being a grandstanding numpty who either lacks the acuity to know or integrity to acknowledge that our ACC system has existed since 1972 and individuals, companies or even governments cannot be sued for compensation.

Some other politico is quoted this morning as stating that this decision was based on the government’s reluctance to have the Department of Labour’s inadequacies trawled through the court because Whittal could almost certainly show that it was not his actions but the Department’s inadequacies that were at fault. In other words, he wanted the prosecution to proceed knowing that Whittal would get off and considered it justified on the basis that it would embarrass the government. If that is the sort of consideration that the Labour Party wants to introduce into the administration of our justice system when I want nothing to do with it.

The law relating to health and safety has been tightened significantly. Directors will be under an obligation to be actively involved in safety issues. That, regretfully, will be overlooked by unscrupulous politicians who have no hesitation in using human tragedy to make illogical, incorrect and extravagant statements for the sole purposes of scoring political points.

Fuggem
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December 13, 2013 11:35am
Pete George

@BernardOrsman

Ernst Young report expected to be made public at 2pm. Believed to contain embarrassing material for Brown
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December 13, 2013 11:36am
Manolo

@Fletch: Maybe proof the Messiah is also made of flesh and blood, and not only divine material?
The photographs show his missus, the gorgeous Marie Antoniette, was not impressed with his behaviour.
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December 13, 2013 11:37am
stephieboy

Fletch (5,238 comments) says:
December 13th, 2013 at 11:23 am

Yes the Nazis did attempt to revive ancient pagan beliefs and traditions . They also attempted to include many of then into Christmas. But the important point is who voted them in in the first place.

You’ll find a considerable junk of the Middle and Upper Middle class with many on the rabid right like here.!
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December 13, 2013 11:38am
Rowan

Great stuff from Trent Boult, although after enforcing the follow on in Dunedin and it not working particularly well with WI putting up a huge score, I would have preferred to see McCullum bat again, and give themselves enough of a lead before having another go at bowling them out where the likes of Sodhi could have got some assistance on day 5. Will be interesting to see what happens, hopefully the rain stays away.
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December 13, 2013 11:38am
wikiriwhis business

Nookin

That may be but still does not change the pattern we see in National govts in disasters from Cave Creek to Jerry Brownlee denying a memorial for Chch and now to Pike River.

In fact, wasn’t there a National govt during Erebus. Where was the Minister of Transport/Aviation in that case?
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December 13, 2013 11:41am
Rowan

Also still on the cricket, how does Neil Wagner justify his place in the side over Doug Bracewell! he has been poor with the ball has about one or two wicket to date and got a golden duck, Does anyone else think he is worth a place in the side?
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December 13, 2013 11:43am
wikiriwhis business

‘Yes the Nazis did attempt to revive ancient pagan beliefs and traditions . They also attempted to include many of then into Christmas. But the important point is who voted them in in the first place.

You’ll find a considerable junk of the Middle and Upper Middle class with many on the rabid right like here.!’

As I’ve said before, the middle class will accept Fascism, Apartheid, Segregation as long as their bank acc’s aern’t touched.

Little do they know central banks manipulate currency to keep citizens they now call ‘consumers’ battling and struggling
to keep them disempowered.
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December 13, 2013 11:45am
stephieboy

wikiriwhis business (2,636 comments) says:
December 13th, 2013 at 11:41 am

Tob be fair Wiri the National party have electorally been the most successful over time and therefore in office. The fact the Erebus , CAve creek etc disaster happened is pure coincidence .
Nothing more.!
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December 13, 2013 11:46am
wikiriwhis business

‘The fact the Erebus , CAve creek etc disaster happened is pure coincidence .
Nothing more.!’

It’s how they deal with them in an irresponsible, unprofessional, uncaring manner.

Therefore we are well warned in advance of their strategy in future tragedies.
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December 13, 2013 11:51am
mandk

Fletch @ 11.16

To be consistent, the religious freedom people should also have objected to the tree and the lights. After all, they were originally pagan symbols.
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December 13, 2013 11:56am
OneTrack

Fletch – “… the Military Religious Freedom Foundation lodged a complaint …”

Oxymoron alert – the Military Anything But Religious Freedom Foundation has spoken.
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December 13, 2013 11:57am
martinh

If Mayor Brown was receiving free rooms at Skycity as the report today might show, i hope a corruption case is started by the police forthwith.
Contrary to what you said to Paul Henry yesterday DPF its not similar to you accepting free stuff as the law is specific to public officials, which i assume you a not.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1306/S00447/time-for-mayor-to-stop-supporting-skycity-deal.htm
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10893526
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December 13, 2013 11:58am
martinh

In fact i dont hope they do, they must.
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December 13, 2013 12:01pm
OneTrack

What is this guy McCready up to now?

I hear he is now taking a manslaughter case against Peter Whittal. WTF?

For a start, how does a private citizen start a manslaughter case? And who is paying for this crap ( the courts, the judges, the court staff,…)? Don’t answer the last one, because I know who is paying it. I just hope I don’t get sick.
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December 13, 2013 12:09pm
dime

Hey wiki,

Dime has a small project coming up. I got 3 quotes. see if you can guess who came out on top:

best price – company a (kiwi), company b (kiwi) or c (gang of Asians)

who could start the job first – company a (kiwi), company b (kiwi) or c (gang of Asians)

who quoted the least amount of time to finish the job – company a (kiwi), company b (kiwi) or c (gang of Asians)

if you answered C to all of those you would be correct. the gang of Asians came in at half the cost of company A…

it cracks me up who whenever we talk about internet piracy, musicians having their music stolen etc all i hear is “they need to adapt” “their business model is flawed” blah blah

well Dime says the same thing to kiwi builders, tradesmen etc adapt and stop ye whining
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December 13, 2013 12:23pm
dime

Sky Go – was pretty excited first day. now im pissed off. can only access on 2 devices. i have home pc and ipad. means i can no longer log in on work computer. can only change a device every 30 days fss.

sitting at home as we speak, turns out my bullshit fast fibre isnt quite up to it as the picture is constantly stalling. audio keeps going.

up your game sky! dont make me get a gang of Asians in to replace you!
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December 13, 2013 12:25pm
Rowan

Agree very much with Hamish McKay, the chiefs deserved better

http://www.3news.co.nz/McKay-Chat-Chiefs-Halbergs-snub-a-shocker/tabid/415/articleID/325028/Default.aspx
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December 13, 2013 12:27pm
kowtow

What Obama says?It’s his rank hypocrisy that the ever adoring media,so quick to attack Palin but give Obummer a free psaa.

He goes to Africa and talks of freedom and liberation……..but hasn’t closed Gitmo yet. (I have no problem with Gitmo ,but Obummer promised to close it in the name of justice or something) The media refuse to take him to task.

He runs around the Muslim world telling them about justice and peace etc and yet he is responsible for outright war crimes….

the latest is a wedding convoy blown to bits in Yemen by a drone strike.(Now I have no problem with taking out terrorists,but I’m not claiming to be a jurist ,and peace and change maker)

So the west’s compliant media need take their hatred and focus off Palin and back to those who are exercising power……that’s their stated aim ,isn’t it?…….Actually it’s not ,they’re there to keep the progressive agenda alive and Obummer is their man…..equality,homo rights,anti America,anti conservative.
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December 13, 2013 12:28pm
fernglas

Hopefully this time the S-G will take over the prosecution and squash it, as he is entitled to do. If not, there will be good grounds for Whittall to seek a stay on the grounds of an abuse of process. If the Crown couldn’t find enough to justify prosecution, then it’s hard to see how a private prosecutor could have any hope of proving an unlawful act and/or gross negligence. Just a big waste of time and money. For too many people in this country, the search for justice can only be satisfied by a criminal prosecution. Few of those bring any satisfaction for anybody involved. Time for the Pike River families to be allowed to move on with their lives
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December 13, 2013 12:35pm
Fletch

So the west’s compliant media need take their hatred and focus off Palin and back to those who are exercising power……that’s their stated aim ,isn’t it?

kowtow, here is rep Trey Gowdy, taking the media to task on not doing their jobs over Benghazi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1jeJmeeMjs
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December 13, 2013 12:37pm
Dirty Rat

Jack5 (3,762 comments) says:
December 13th, 2013 at 9:51 am
Whale Oil has an interesting piece today on Hooton and the Chorus campaign.

Jack

The Onion has great tips for decorating ones Christmas tree

http://www.theonion.com/video/the-onions-tips-for-decorating-a-christmas-tree,34811/
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December 13, 2013 12:40pm
kowtow

Thanks Fletch

Obummer and co have held on and the accomplice media have let Benghazi go away.

Meanwhile it’s Palin ,Palin Palin.
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December 13, 2013 12:50pm
Fletch

Onto cooler things 🙂

Here’s a five minute fan video mashup: Doctor Who meets Sherlock.
Quite well done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bGYljQ5Uw
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December 13, 2013 12:54pm
Longknives

You knew it was coming- The left have decided it is ‘racist’ to depict Santa as a white man….

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11171896

And now they are trying to crucify the gorgeous Megyn Kelly for trying to put an end to this PC nonsense…
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December 13, 2013 12:58pm
KevinH

@Fletch, @OneTrack
Palin is certainly cute but her future is in comedy:
“All of ’em, any of ’em that have been in front of me over all these years.” –Sarah Palin, unable to name a single newspaper or magazine she reads, interview with Katie Couric, CBS News, Oct. 1, 2008 (Watch video clip

“He who warned, uh, the British that they weren’t gonna be takin’ away our arms, uh, by ringing those bells, and um, makin’ sure as he’s riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells that we were going to be sure and we were going to be free, and we were going to be armed.” –Sarah Palin, botching the history of Paul Revere’s midnight ride, June 3, 2011

“But obviously, we’ve got to stand with our North Korean allies.” –Sarah Palin, after being asked how she would handle the current hostilities between the two Koreas, interview on Glenn Beck’s radio show, Nov. 24, 2010

“As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where– where do they go? It’s Alaska. It’s just right over the border.” –Sarah Palin, explaining why Alaska’s proximity to Russia gives her foreign policy experience, interview with CBS’s Katie Couric, Sept. 24, 2008

@Fletch
Loved that link on the Obama’s. No humpty dumpty for Barrick.
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December 13, 2013 12:59pm
kowtow

TV3 have just reported this guy as a ‘kiwi”.

Don’t think so.

If he’s found guilty ,will he should be stripped of New Zealand citizenship.

http://diasporamessenger.com/foreigner-who-wanted-to-marry-11-year-old-girl-arrested/

Having said that our betters exhort us to celebrate all this enrichment and diversity that these characters bring to boring,white Anglo Saxon New Zealand.
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December 13, 2013 1:13pm
kowtow

Longknives

Santa should be depicted as a wee bit dusky.

The original Nick came from Asia Minor,when it was Christian,before the Muslim Turkish hordes over ran it and committed a genocide on the indigenous Christians.

An oppression that continues to this day ,but it’s not the done thing to talk about it.
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December 13, 2013 1:16pm
stephieboy

Kowtow your wrong. St Nicholas was indeed born in Asia Minor but it was the Roman Emperor Diocletian who in fact persecuted,murdered and imprisoned Christians like him. This was long before the Islamic Turkish infidels made an appearance.

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/who-is-st-nicholas/
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December 13, 2013 1:51pm
cha

~~Benghazi~~ 9/11! … as the US maintains an alliance with one of the most oppressive anti-western Islamic states on the planet.

“I was absolutely shocked by what I read,” Jones told International Business Times. “What was so surprising was that those whom we thought we could trust really disappointed me. I cannot go into it any more than that. I had to sign an oath that what I read had to remain confidential. But the information I read disappointed me greatly.”

[…]

It has never been fully explained why the pages were blacked out, but President Bush stated in 2003 that releasing the pages would violate national security.

http://www.ibtimes.com/911-link-saudi-arabia-topic-28-redacted-pages-government-report-congressmen-push-release-1501202
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December 13, 2013 1:57pm
Manolo

Promises are not worth even the paper they are written on. Seeing is believing.

The National Party has confirmed it wants to see the eventual abolition of the Maori seats in Parliament.

The party today released its Maori Affairs and Treaty Negotiations policies, promising to “devote fresh energy and leadership” to advancing Treaty settlements.

It wants to settle all historic claims by 2014, a deadline it has set in the past.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/national-confirms-policy-abolish-maori-seats-35774
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December 13, 2013 1:58pm
Judith

@ Longknives (3,495 comments) says:
December 13th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

Wow, I am surprised at that, I would have thought they would have gone for the sexist angle first, but then I suppose it might have caused problem when they got to the ‘tooth fairy’ and wanted her depicted as a man, and god knows what the SPCA would have to say if they started in on the Easter bunny!
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December 13, 2013 2:00pm
stephieboy

Longknives (3,495 comments) says:
December 13th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
I would take anything Fox news says with a grain of salt quite frankly.
Precisely which members of the “left”are saying that Samta should not be white.? Also do recall that the original Santa, St Nicholas like Jesus was born in the Middle East and would highly likely be of a darker complexion than say a Scandinavian,or an Aryan like yourself.
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December 13, 2013 2:00pm
kowtow

stephie b

you are very tedious in your defence of the “other”

Many Roman Emperors persecuted Christians, we all know that.

The Byzantine Empire was Christian and was obliterated by the Muslim Turks ,who went on to invade Europe.The problems Islam then created in Europe (as well as the Near East )exist to this day.
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December 13, 2013 2:07pm
Longknives

“or an Aryan like yourself”

Ouch. What a nasty, pathetic little piece of shit you are Stephieboy…
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December 13, 2013 2:08pm
stephieboy

cha (3,062 comments) says:
December 13th, 2013 at 1:57 pm

The facts are that the US depends dar less on SA oil etc than ever before. its dependency on Middle east Oil has dramatically diminished over the last decade.
SA oppressive ?No more and no less than the Islamic Republic of Iran both of whom e g still have Sorcery and witchcraft as indictable of fences and persecute minority religious groups like Ba’ hai and Christians.
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December 13, 2013 2:11pm
Reid

Don’t know about you guys but I find this very funny.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11171653

The sign language interpreter reckons he was having a schizo moment when he went all peculiar at Mandela’s memorial service. Apparently he thought he was seeing angels etc and he didn’t want to do anything such as walk off the stage because there were armed police around and it would let his country down so instead he thought he’d just carry on.

Don’t know about you guys but this is just the sort of excuse I’d expect a ten-year-old to makeup if they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Plus I wonder what’s going to happen the first time a journo asks him to actually properly sign something just so people don’t think he can’t even do it. I mean what’s he going to do then? See even more angels?
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December 13, 2013 2:16pm
stephieboy

Longknives this definition of Aryan from Wiki,

“The Aryan race was a racial grouping commonly used in the period of the late 19th century to the mid 20th century to describe peoples of European and Western Asian heritage. It derives from the idea that the original speakers of the Indo-European languages and their descendants up to the present day constitute a distinctive race or subrace of the larger Caucasian race.”
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December 13, 2013 2:25pm
Jim

@yoza @peterwn – intimidation or ineptness are both possibilities, inept intimidation even.

Whatever the reason it stinks. The ‘objectionable material’ excuse is shameless.

Could be worse:

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/08/u_s_filmmaker_repeatedly_detained_at_border/
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December 13, 2013 2:26pm

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