General Debate 8 November 2013

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flipper

Ross12 (697) Says:
November 8th, 2013 at 12:06 pm
flipper @ 11.27

Sorry flipper I missed your

***
Good that the scam is being exposed… but I, like you obviously, despair at the quality of MSM journalism.

Every single one of the Kiwi… whatnots (except saver) is a lemon – rail, billion dollar and increasing hole; Bank billion dollar hole and no dividend in 10 years – plus an anchor around the neck of NZ Post.

But hang on….are they not ICONS?
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November 8, 2013 12:31pm
Ed Snack

Kea, I think your Bayesian priors are a tad biased, so your conclusions are likely similarly biased.
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November 8, 2013 12:36pm
Manolo

An American Graham Capill: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-nudist-colony-child-porn-20131106,0,7299895.story
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November 8, 2013 12:40pm
Kea

Ed Snack, you would not say that if you were wrongly accussed of a sex crime, as so many men are.

PG, must have done something he is not proud of in his past and this is his way of making ammends.

The rest of us do not carry that burden.
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November 8, 2013 12:42pm
Kea

“An American Graham Capill:”

Manolo, Very topical. Yes what is it with those who stand on a soap box about sexual morality…
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November 8, 2013 12:43pm
Pete George

Jackson and Tamihere have an advertising free show today. A number of companies pulled from it by RadioLive seems to have tried to not risk losing the rest. But it’s still getting worse regardless:

Vodafone New Zealand ‏@vodafoneNZ
We have suspended all advertising with Radio Live following the actions of John Tamihere & Willie Jackson around the Roast Busters case.

The instigator of the advertising protest, Giovanni Tiso, has blogged This is what rape culture looks like where he explains his actions, and lists the questions that Jackson and Tamihere asked.

How did your parents consent to you going out as a 14-year-old til 3am in the morning?

So anyway you fibbed, lied, whatever, and went out to the parties – did you not know they were up to this mischief?

Well, you know when you were going to parties, were you forced to drink?

Don’t youse [sic] know what these guys are up to?

Yeah but girls shouldn’t be drinking anyway, should they?

Why is it that it’s only taken you this arvo to stand up and say this happened?

I know you’re only 18 but as the pressure comes on, a lot more girls who might have consented who are identified might well just line up and say they were raped as well.

How free and easy are you kids these days out there? You were 14 [when you had sex], yeah?

But if some of the girls have consented, that doesn’t make them rapists, does it?

You see Amy, when you get to that sort of number and you get people like you who’ve been around for three years, you know what, I find it very difficult to understand why an allegation, if rape has occurred, it hasn’t happened before.

That’s why I’m getting a bit confused here right. The girls like them, the girls think they’re handsome, the girls go out with them, then you say they get raped, right?

The other side come to it, are they willing drinkers, all those questions come in don’t they?

Do you think over this period any of the girls could have got together and said, this is not on?

When the tried to apologise the following day they just demonstrated that they didn’t get it.

Tiso concludes:

This is what rape culture sounds like: victim-shaming, blaming alcohol or lying to one’s parents, the core belief that if rape happens often enough, it’s no longer rape. It’s all there.

This week, our collective conscience has been shaken. It’s time to turn the outrage and anger into collective action, so that we may not regain that false, misplaced sense of innocence and trust.

Apart from some isolated misogynists there has been widespread condemnation of the culture surrounding the Roast Busters. At least the awakening of action to address the issues may make good of something widely seen as awful.
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November 8, 2013 12:48pm
Kea

PG you maggot, if there is evidence of a crime, why do we need trial by media ?
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November 8, 2013 12:51pm
Kea

PG, how about coming clean and telling us why you are continually on a soap box about “rape” and attacking other men ?

Normal folk already consider rape a terrible wrong and are wondering what is going on with you ?
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November 8, 2013 12:54pm
Pete George

There’s ample evidence that you’re the one who attacks other men Kea. Ask yourself.
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November 8, 2013 12:57pm
Kea

PG, you are avoiding my question.

Do you think you really appear more moral or as a defender of female virtue ?

You don’t. You besmirch other men in order to elevate yourself. It is not a moral or a good thing, rather the opposite.

If those little punks committed a crime they should be tried by the system. Not by a an hystercial lynch mob fueled by anti male sentiment. But the fact is that after FIVE investigations, including forensic tests, they have nothing.

I think that these kids should never be charged, now, as thanks to zealots like you there is no chance of a fair trial.
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November 8, 2013 1:02pm
Kea

PG and others have claimed they have evidence of multiple rapes. A very serious matter.

So I am wondering why they are not passing their evidence onto the Police ? On the face of it they appear to be withholding evidence and this should probably be followed up by the Police.
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November 8, 2013 1:13pm
Scott Chris

Or just maybe all our present knowledge is but a tiny fraction of the bigger reality.

Douglas Adams:

“There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”
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November 8, 2013 1:17pm
Manolo

Is P.G. New Zealand’s version of Germaine Greer? Or Germaine herself in disguise? The age matches.
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November 8, 2013 1:22pm
Kea

Germaine Greer Says People Making Complaints Of Rape Should Be Named

Feminist icon Germaine Greer says she is in favour of rape victims being named.

Speaking on the BBC’s Question Time show, Greer said complainants should not be ashamed of what had happened, and “ought to stand up there and face him”.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/10/germaine-greer-says-people-making-complaints-of-rape-should-be-named_n_3251428.html

====================================================================

I guess anonymous skanks on talkback radio do not count.
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November 8, 2013 1:39pm
Judith

@ Kea (8,867) Says:
November 8th, 2013 at 12:42 pm
Ed Snack, you would not say that if you were wrongly accussed of a sex crime, as so many men are.

So that’s it is it Kea? Someone falsely accused you, so therefore any female that makes a complaint about being sexually assaulted must be lying?

And what about all the men that have been convicted after pleading guilty of sex crimes – I suppose they were ‘ear-bashed in to falsely confessing’ by some female?

It takes a very ignorant and arrogant person to believe that because there are some cases in which false complaints have been made, that every subsequent complaint, real or not, and complainant must be treated to abuse because they dared to speak out.

And then we get stupid comments from people that can’t understand why more of the victims don’t come forward – all those people have to do is read your comments Kea to understand why they don’t.
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November 8, 2013 1:58pm
Manolo

The Kenyan eats humble pie (no pork, of course): http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/07/21352724-exclusive-obama-personally-apologizes-for-americans-losing-health-coverage?lite
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November 8, 2013 2:02pm
Pete George

PG and others have claimed they have evidence of multiple rapes. A very serious matter.

Typical bollocks from Kea. I haven’t seen anyone claim they have evidence.

What I and many others have done is refer to comments made by the RB boys on Facebook which are apparent admissions of stupefying and having sex with underage girls in circumstances that could amount to rape.

And comments made by girls who have been interviewed on TV claiming stupefying and rape.

We have also heard a number of police representatives refer to ‘victim’s. We have also heard the police say that all they needs is sufficient evidence to prosecute, but I have not seen any doubt expressed by police that some highly questionable sexual incidents have occurred.

But Kea has been told all this a number of times and keeps making shit up and abusing people. A frequent practice.

I guess anonymous skanks on talkback radio do not count

Says an anonymous skank on a blog.
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November 8, 2013 2:03pm
Kea

Typical bollocks from Kea. I haven’t seen anyone claim they have evidence.

PG, ok so you admit to having NO EVIDENCE. So what are you basing your ideas on ?

The girls admitted to voluntarily drinking with the intention of having sex. Numerous girls have defended the boys. Only a tiny number have cowardly developed retrospective morals.
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November 8, 2013 2:07pm
All_on_Red

Germaine Greer is right. Victims should not be ashamed about what happened but its our duty to ensure we have a societal structure whereby the victims are not ashamed to come forward as they know that all of us realise it is not their fault and they wont get treated badly. We are obviously not there yet.
Being open this way would also stop a lot of false complaints (well hopefully)
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November 8, 2013 2:08pm
Kea

PG demands that no one question the hysterical narrative fed to us by the feminist media and that anyone who does should be shut down. We can’t even talk about it. He also admits to having no evidence.

Yet he wants to destroy the lives of young men anyway, just to show us all what a great guy he is.

Remember folks, this could be you or your son next.
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November 8, 2013 2:12pm
nasska

Judith @ 1.58

It would seem that lying about rape may be a little more prevalent than you think. Ross 69 posted this comment yesterday:

….” ross69 (3,052) Says:
November 7th, 2013 at 7:54 am

Kea,

It is unclear how many false allegations of rape/sexual abuse are made in New Zealand. However, research by Jan Jordan suggests that the numbers could be significant. Jordan examined 164 police files from 1997, files which contained allegations of rape and sexual assault. Police categorised the allegations as follows:

1. Genuine Cases – The police believed the complainant was telling the truth that she had been raped or sexually assaulted.

2. Possibly Genuine Cases – The police were unsure if the complainant had been raped or sexually assaulted. There was typically insufficient evidence to conclude that rape or sexual assault had occurred.

3. False Cases Determined By Police – The police believed the complaints were false.

4. False Cases Declared By Complainants – The complainant admitted their complaint was false.

Jordan reports that the numbers for each group were 34 (21%), 62 (38%), 55 (33%), 13 (8%) respectively. In other words, only 21% of files that were examined by Jordan were determined by police to be genuine rape complaints, though there were possibly other genuine complaints which could not be substantiated. Even if all cases that were possibly genuine were accepted as genuine, it is apparent that 41% of complaints were considered to be false. “….

Considering that a complaint of rape against a man is effectively a kiss of death for him, socially & financially, the fact that 4 out of 10 women would lie about is highly disturbing.
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November 8, 2013 2:18pm
Judith

@ Pete George (19,480) Says:
November 8th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

Whether these jerks actually raped the girls or it was sex with consent, is an entirely other matter, and one that will and should be sorted by the courts, however,

regardless of all that, there is the behaviour of the boys involved, in which their plans to target particular underage females, and have group sex with them was on their facebook page, and is still available on other internet sites. (which actually supports the claims the girls have made)

There are statements by these boys where they have admitted to having had sex with the girl/s whilst they were ‘out of it’, and comments regarding everything from ‘tightness or sloppiness’ to graphic descriptions of other degrading acts performed whilst the girl/s were ‘out of it’. There are also taunts of how ‘suckered in’ the girls were by what they’d been told, not to mention the naming of the girls themselves – who have been proven to exist.

Whether these guys are rapists or not will be decided, but over and above that, they are the poorest excuse for ‘men’ that I have seen in a long time. Whether they are boasting or even lying, the fact they have put it all over the net makes it a despicable act. I would have thought that all males would have stood up against this, because it does show masculinity in a very poor light – but no, instead we get a bunch of so called men approving the behaviour and blaming the girls for ‘being there’.
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November 8, 2013 2:20pm
Pete George

PG, ok so you admit to having NO EVIDENCE. So what are you basing your ideas on ?

I never claimed to have evidence, no one else claimed to have evidence here, that’s been obvious to nearly everyone from the start. But the reports on what was posted on Facebook have been widely circulated, and many people have seen and heard TV interviews and radio interviews and they have read the many media reports quoting various people.

The girls admitted to voluntarily drinking with the intention of having sex. Numerous girls have defended the boys. Only a tiny number have cowardly developed retrospective morals.

That’s rape culture in overdrive. Absent any evidence of course.

“Only a tiny number have cowardly developed retrospective morals.”

Kea, have you got the guts to put your real name to that claim? Or are you the coward?
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November 8, 2013 2:23pm
Kea

nasska, I have heard figures as high as 50% being false. I have been told things by detectives that they could never say to the public.

We are not allowed to talk about it, figures are hidden, and prosecutions are rare.

The fact so many cases, (that make it to court), do not result in a conviction, is used by anti male hate groups as evidence that the standard of proof should be lowered ! When really it indicates that the Police are way too keen to prosecute men when they have no evidence. PG is a crank, but there are people with statutory powers who are just like him.
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November 8, 2013 2:24pm
Judith

@ nasska (7,941) Says:
November 8th, 2013 at 2:18 pm

I worked for more than ten years in the Courts and specifically with serious violent and sexual offenders. I have also worked within the prison system with people charged with sexual offences. I know exactly what the situation regarding real and false complaints of rape is. I am not saying it doesn’t exist, but it does not exist to the extent that ‘everyone’ who says they have been raped – has in fact been raped.

And do not forget, that a large number of people who have been sexually assaulted never go to the police, so the statistics are not a realistic indication of the problem. Due to the ‘culture’ that has been well demonstrated by a few on this board, a very large number of rapists never get bought before the courts, and continue with their acts without detection.
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November 8, 2013 2:25pm
Pete George

Whether these guys are rapists or not will be decided, but over and above that, they are the poorest excuse for ‘men’ that I have seen in a long time.

Kea seems to be trying to compete for that.
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November 8, 2013 2:25pm
Judith

@ Kea (8,870) Says:
November 8th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

What a load of absolute shit Kea – I suggest you see someone for the voices you are hearing if they are telling you crap like that.

Of course everyone charged with rape initially denies it – and of course men are not going to admit to other men what they’ve done. Jeez you really need to get out and see the real world if you are ignorant enough to believe that crap.

I do note that you clarify it with that ‘you can’t talk about it – or prove it – how very convenient for you!
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November 8, 2013 2:28pm
nasska

Kea

The study Ross69 referred to was probably that of adult women. It may not be pertinent in “Roast Busters” case & I still consider it highly unlikely that the kids involved were lying.

It does however, make many of the claims spouted by feminists seem shaky beyond belief.
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November 8, 2013 2:31pm
Judith

@ Nasska

I forgot to point out to you regarding your outdated and quoted research – you do realise that further research within the last five years has proven that piece of research was wrong, and also within a year of it being released the police themselves clarified the situation by stating it was incorrect and that the researchers had misrepresented or misunderstood the information they had been provided with ?

It is completely unsurprising that Ross69 would fail to check his sources before using them!
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November 8, 2013 2:33pm
nasska

Judith

I accept that hard statistics are incredibly difficult to gather in cases involving forced sex….there are many emotions & social stigmas at play but I still reckon that the figures touted by feminists are total bullshit.

If the numbers given by Ross aren’t credible then given your court work background I would be interested in your estimate of false reporting of sexual assault/rape.
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November 8, 2013 2:37pm
Kea

Judith, your experience was with sex offenders. Guilty people.

The fact is that many victims never come forward. There is no way of knowing how many, but I have met a lot. However, convictiong innocent men will not remedy that.

If repulsive creeps like PG were serious about stopping rape [he is not] then they would be encouraging by-in from men, not alienating and villanising them.

“I do note that you clarify it with that ‘you can’t talk about it – or prove it – how very convenient for you!”

Wrong. I meant we are not allowed to talk about it. Not that “I” can’t.
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November 8, 2013 2:39pm
Judith

@ nasska

You may like to read this article by the same researcher who is actually a ‘feminist’ working with Rape Crisis. This is a subsequent report in which she comes to the conclusion that the cases that do not succeed are more likely to be due to the ‘attitude’ of the police.

http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Beyond_Belief__Police,_Rape_and_Women_s_Credibility.pdf
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November 8, 2013 2:41pm
Judith

@ Kea (8,871) Says:
November 8th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

Wrong again.

At least two of the sexual offenders I worked with did not commit the crimes they were convicted of. Never make assumptions – you know what they say.
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November 8, 2013 2:42pm
Redbaiter

Funny to see the atheists here defending the Roast Busters by using the Capill defence.

Young girls cannot give consent.
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November 8, 2013 2:43pm
Pete George

Here are recent statistics :

Sexual attacks

Rates of reported sexual attacks have also increased dramatically. There were 908 reported sexual attacks in 1978, increasing steeply to a peak of 3,222 in 1993. This data cannot be compared with data after 1997, as reported attacks which were identified after investigation as ‘no offence disclosed’ were removed from the record.

Between 1997 and 2008, the number of validated sexual attacks was relatively stable, averaging over 2,200 a year. However, it was estimated in the early 2000s that only about 10% of sexual assaults were reported to the police.

A review of 1,955 sexual violation offences involving adults reported to the police between 1 July 2005 and 31 December 2007 concluded that 31% of all reported complaints led to prosecutions and 42% of these prosecutions resulted in a conviction. Thirty-four percent of the 1,955 complaints were classified as ‘no offence’ and of these, almost a quarter were defined as ‘false complaints’.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/violent-crime/page-8

That shows that about 8% of reported offences were defined as ‘false complaints’ (about a quarter of 34%). That’s 8% of about 10%, so about 1%. A US study put it at about 2%.
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November 8, 2013 2:44pm
nasska

Good God Judith…..I’m a poor semi literate farmer, not an academic.

Spell out the important bits for me. 🙂
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November 8, 2013 2:45pm
Reid

First of all, what is stress?

It’s not something external to ourselves, it’s not a situation or an experience; it’s our response to it. It’s a mental assessment of the situation (i.e. does this require me to worry?) and a physical response to that answer. The hormone that is triggered through our initial mental assessment of the situation actually causes our attention to stay focused on the cause of the discomfort. A-ha. That is a really important factor.
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November 8, 2013 2:45pm
Kea

Judith & PG, sorry but the lies of anti male hate groups do not count as evidence or fact.

What does PG, Graham Capill, and every rapist and kiddy fiddler have in common ? : They would all very strongly oppose rape if you asked them.

PG is totally full of shit and is not being honest about his motivation for this crusade.

[DPF: Beyond totally unacceptable. 50 demerits and two week ban]
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November 8, 2013 2:49pm
Redbaiter

“I’m a poor semi literate farmer”

IOW Hillbilly.

Such humility.

Shame it’s a complete sham.

A more arrogant preaching condescending self important bigot would be hard to find.
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November 8, 2013 2:50pm
nasska

Amazing what a bit of groundbait will bring to the surface…..Hi Baity. 🙂
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November 8, 2013 2:52pm
Pete George

Estimates of false complaints:

Crown Prosecution Service report (2011–2012)

A report by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) examined rape allegations in England and Wales over a 17-month period between January 2011 and May 2012. It showed that in 35 cases authorities believed there was enough evidence to prosecute a person for making a false allegation, while in 5,651 cases there was enough evidence to prosecute for rape.

Keir Starmer, the head of the CPS, said that the “mere fact that someone did not pursue a complaint or retracted it, is not of itself evidence that it was false” and that it is a “misplaced belief” that false accusations of rape are commonplace.

Lisak (2010)

David Lisak’s study, published in 2010 in Violence Against Women, classified as false 8 out of the 136 (5.9%) reported rapes at an American university over a ten-year period.

Police in Victoria, Australia (2006)

A study of 812 rape accusations made to police in Victoria Australia between 2000 and 2003 found that 2.1% were ultimately classified by police as false, with the complainants then charged or threatened with charges for filing a false police report.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

A number of researchers actually claim that ‘false complaints’ are more commonly over-reported or based on very vague criteria.
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November 8, 2013 2:54pm
Judith

Actually I’ll take the time to type the first paragraph of the conclusion of the report mentioned above. This was the second version of the report that was quoted by Ross (who I think must have had the first copy going from his own conclusions)

Conclusion:
The issue of belief is central to sexual assault investigations, given the typical absence of extensive corroborative evidence. Women victims ask for their accounts of rape to be believed, and police organizations ask communities to believe that their responses to rape complaints have improved. Both situations require investigative analysis before conclusions can be drawn. After conducting police file analysis, this article concludes that issue of belief and credibility will remain vexed and contentious so long as investigative officers approach to rape complainants with a prevailing mindset of suspicion and disbelief.

Police suspiciousness regarding rape allegations originates within a social environment characterised by a history of distrust towards women, and is exacerbated within the masculine ethos of police organizations…
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November 8, 2013 2:54pm
Reid

An alternative view of America particularly useful for who still despite all the evidence hallucinate it’s still Morning in it.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/11/04/332928/china-redefining-global-political-paradigm/
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November 8, 2013 2:58pm
Pete George

Kea, if you don’t retract your comment at 2:49 pm and make an appropriate apology I’m going to take action. Your frequent abuse and false claims are often over the top but that inference is especially despicable, and defamatory.
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November 8, 2013 3:00pm
Judith

@ nasska (7,946) Says:
November 8th, 2013 at 2:45 pm
Good God Judith…..I’m a poor semi literate farmer, not an academic.

Spell out the important bits for me

LOL that made me laugh – I’ve been a ‘farmer’ to you know!!!

Currently I’m playing at being an academic but I’m almost over that now too – might be a ballet dancer next!

Anyway – basically what the report is saying is that it is the culture within the police to disbelieve rape victims and therefore they do not investigate as efficiently as they could or should do, thus allowing cases to not gain successful convictions. The researchers put this down to a general ‘mistrust of women’ that is rapid within the force (and to a certain extent, society.

Now, shouldn’t you be milking a cow or something? 🙂
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November 8, 2013 3:03pm
Kea

~~Kea~~, if you don’t retract your comment ~~at 2:49 pm~~ and make an appropriate apology I’m going to take action. Your frequent abuse and false claims are often over the top but that inference is especially despicable, and defamatory.

Don’t like a taste of your own medicene a PG ? The bloody cheek after the things you have said about me and other men !

If you can find any factual error in my comment I will be happy to correct that error asap.
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November 8, 2013 3:10pm
Kea

Actually on second thoughts I will not correct any factual error. You are not concerned with facts when slagging off myself and other men.
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November 8, 2013 3:11pm
Reid

Yes Pete agree with you on your 3:00 pm. Kea what’s the matter with you?
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November 8, 2013 3:15pm
TheContrarian

“Kea what’s the matter with you?”

I’m going with head injury.
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November 8, 2013 3:17pm
Lance

So Kea’s implying PG is a kiddy fiddler?

Fuck, talk about stepping over the line.
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November 8, 2013 3:25pm
Reid

Garner on RadioLive just interviewed a guy at the heart of the ChCh rebuild who said that now, three years after the quakes, they are only 3-5% into it. In other words, there’s 95% to go. Garner said he’d discussed it with Brownlee previously and they’d come to a mutual 20 year timeframe estimate. This is the first time anyone’s admitted the scale of it publicly.

And internationally, this is a good analysis from Paul Roberts on the USD’s future.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/11/06/333238/an-interview-with-paul-craig-roberts/
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November 8, 2013 3:28pm
Kea

So Kea’s implying PG is a kiddy fiddler?

Really ? Where ?
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November 8, 2013 3:34pm
Lance

@Kea
At 2:49pm

The stringing of those references together might be ‘passive’ but is none the less clear to most what you mean.
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November 8, 2013 3:40pm
Reid

The ten rules for being human – these are good.

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/11/02/ten-rules-human/

Edit: Perhaps you need to read them Kea, especially Rule 7.
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November 8, 2013 3:48pm
Kea

Lance, is there a factual error in my post ?

The point is that PG makes a big show of holding views that are perfectly normal. I have not seen anyone defend rape.
He slags of other men and accuses them of being rape enablers, as if being opposed to rape is something exceptional and he is special for his views.

He is not special or exceptionally tough on rape. He is a posturing performer and I want to know what is behind that.
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November 8, 2013 3:54pm
Kea

Funny thing is that I have discussed my views with women. They support my stance. I guess they are not trying to impress anyone.
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November 8, 2013 4:00pm
wikiriwhis business

Hamilton’s Council of Elders (made up of elected members) is to be dissolved by Ms Hardaker And the Hamilton City Council in favor of a reduced number of members appointed by Hardacker (maybe with input from council) because they were asking too many difficult questions and would not just do what the council told them to do. “We asked a lot of questions that had not been asked before about the council assets, fluoride, [and] water meters,” Mr Bowman ( a member of the council) said. The Council of Elders has become difficult for HCC as the aim was to have Council of Elders to appear to have a community watchdog keeping an eye on HCC while not causing HCC any problems and being on the side of HCC on issues. But this has not happened so HCC will appoint people loyal to the mayor and her views (supporting asset sales, water meters, bullying). After all the mayor (and HCC) do not really want a true democracy, they only want enough democracy to look like rate payers are getting a say, while the continue on doing what they want regardless.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/9376318/Elders-council-disbanded?cid=edm%3Astuff%3Adailyheadlines
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November 8, 2013 4:04pm
Reid

Sounds like Ms Hardaker been getting advice from her counterpart up the road. Honestly, don’t they know they’re lucky to be there? How dare they ask questions. They’re supposed to be all old and doddery and just sit there quietly doing their knitting and playing bridge.
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November 8, 2013 4:10pm
Nostalgia-NZ

‘Lance (2,170) Says:
November 8th, 2013 at 3:25 pm
So Kea’s implying PG is a kiddy fiddler?

Fuck, talk about stepping over the line’

Yes an anonymous f wit making the accusation against a person he names. Something said with a very clear meaning against a person with a public identity.
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November 8, 2013 4:10pm
Kea

Yeah we know how much of a defender of women you are Nosty. Go stand in the corner with PG.
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November 8, 2013 4:17pm
wikiriwhis business

Man invented money…now electronic money. They either don’t know what to do, OR do and don’t want to. Either way they are between a rock and a hard place. We are just offering to help ALL. Check this intro out….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtClZg9LisE
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November 8, 2013 4:17pm
Longknives

I have spoken before of my friend who had his life destroyed by a false rape complaint.
Just to recap- He got with a work colleague at a Christmas Party ( I was there when she approached and hit on him), when her boyfriend found out she went running to the Police stating he had ‘drugged her’ and raped her.
My friend’s life was destroyed. He lost his career, his reputation, attempted suicide and spent tens of thousands of dollars on legal bills.
I was involved in this matter (interviewed as a witness for several hours) .The Police left no stone unturned and seemed to be taking her word as ‘gospel’.
She was offered every counselling and victim service known to man.
My friend got nothing, no support or counselling. Just long sleepless nights wondering if he was going to jail and if he would ever rebuild his shattered life. (he lost about 20 kg and looked like death)
Eventually the truth emerged. My friend didn’t even get as much as an apology. He has never been the same guy..

My point?
1) The Police take rape complaints (even dubious ones) very seriously and leave absolutely no stone unturned
2) Despite what the feminists say false complaints do happen…and they are a bloody nasty business.
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November 8, 2013 4:20pm
Nostalgia-NZ

‘My point?
1) The Police take rape complaints (even dubious ones) very seriously and leave absolutely no stone unturned
2) Despite what the feminists say false complaints do happen…and they are a bloody nasty business.’

One event is not the blueprint for all others. There are plenty of people who have stated contrary stories to that of your friends, but like yours, that doesn’t make the conduct in one case universal. Much has been written about this in New Zealand and there are circumstances that fall into both patterns. Anyway there is an inquiry underway now which may give a clearer picture.
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November 8, 2013 4:31pm
Longknives

Not saying it is the ‘blueprint’ Nostalgia but in light of all the fucking hysteria I thought I might try to throw a little balance into the discussion…
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November 8, 2013 4:34pm
Judith

@ Longknives

I don’t think anyone in their right mind would accept that false complaints don’t happen. I have seen lives destroyed by them, and have even played a fundamental role in having an offender released and a conviction quashed, because I believed he was not guilty – and was eventually proven right.

BUT, that does not mean that every case, or even the majority of them are false. I posted a link on here to a report that found in 2004 that the police do not always actively pursue complaints, so it does work both way.

Many many sexual assaults are not reported, because of all the issues raised here. And that is not good either.

IT is very dangerous to allow the culture that every rape complaint is false, based on the times that women have used it as a weapon against men. Those women actually serve the biggest disservice to other women, because real cases of sexual assault are doubted and those victims have to go through hell in the investigations and under cross examination, because of those idiots that falsely complain. They make it harder for everyone, not just men.
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November 8, 2013 4:35pm
Kea

Judith, people are assumed innocent until PROVEN guilty here in NZ. That applies to sex crimes too. Though anti male hate groups and pushing hard to change that.
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November 8, 2013 4:36pm
Judith

@ Kea (8,883) Says:
November 8th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

But the victims aren’t allowed the same courtesy? You have spent the last few days making out that the girls involved were to blame for ‘wearing what they do’, for going out, for basically just being girls. What about their innocence – it appears you think they are guilty of something too.

As I have made it very clear, the rape issue is separate, and will be handled by the police and justice systems – BUT what those young men did on the internet – the information they put about private young girls, the intimidation, the denigration, the acts they stated they had performed (even if they didn’t) is disgusting.

Yes, on the charge of rape, they must be regarded as innocent until proven guilty – but they are guilty of what they have already proven by their own actions, and that makes them disgusting individuals in my opinion and therefore worthy of condemnation for all that they have done. By defending them, you are also defending that behaviour.
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November 8, 2013 4:43pm
Kea

She was offered every counselling and victim service known to man.
My friend got nothing, no support or counselling. Just long sleepless nights wondering if he was going to jail and if he would ever rebuild his shattered life. (he lost about 20 kg and looked like death)
Eventually the truth emerged. My friend didn’t even get as much as an apology. He has never been the same guy..

What did they do to the criminal who lied ?
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November 8, 2013 4:43pm
Judith

@ kea

Also, forget your crap about anti-male groups. From what I’ve seen it is ordinary everyday parents and adults and even other teenagers that are speaking out against this group. Sure feminist groups may also be having a say, but by far it is the ordinary New Zealanders with enough intelligence to see what the consequences of this sort of behaviour may have on young people and the rest of the community. So your ‘attacks’ on the feminists is quite unsupported and unbalanced by the evidence.
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November 8, 2013 4:45pm
Longknives

Don’t ask Kea- That I am aware she got more counselling, hugs and support thrown her way..
Having been part of the whole horrendous incident and seen the destruction created by her pathetic little lies (which she dragged out for months and months before being caught out) I can honestly say (with hand on my heart) that I think she should have served jail time.
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November 8, 2013 4:48pm
nickb

Have read with interest the Greens’ diatribe towards NZ’s foreign trust industry over the last year, with more stories in the media today.

I have worked in this industry and can confidently say that this “attack” by the Greens is one of the most baseless, unfounded and ill-informed attacks I have seen in political history. Even more disgusting is the complete lack of fact checking by our MSM. It all started with Guyon Espiner’s ridiculous 60 Minutes “expose” in November last year.
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November 8, 2013 4:49pm
Kea

Longknives, generally they are still portrayed as “victims” who need help for their “issues”.

You can thank scum like PG for this sorry state of affairs.
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November 8, 2013 4:49pm
Longknives

Not to mention all the Police resources she drained that could have been used on real victims of Rape..
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November 8, 2013 4:52pm
Nostalgia-NZ

‘Not saying it is the ‘blueprint’ Nostalgia but in light of all the fucking hysteria I thought I might try to throw a little balance into the discussion…’

I agree. I don’t have a confirmed position because I simply don’t know. However there is plenty of stuff that looks short of the mark and I think it’s good that more attention is being placed on what happened earlier. The two extremes are there as they always will be, I don’t like the implications made against the teen girls. Equally, the male motor mouths might simply be more full of themselves than what they appear. I agree with something flipper also said on another thread yesterday that the ‘owners’ of facebook and twitter have a lot to answer for here, even though it’s also true that unwanted (for the teen girls at least) attention has been part of why some people have been getting their butts kicked in terms of the earlier complaints.
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November 8, 2013 4:53pm
Kea

“Kea, if you don’t retract your comment at 2:49 pm and make an appropriate apology I’m going to take action. ”

PG, Hay fuckwit, how is that action going ?

Oh and remember being accussed of something is all the evidence we need for sex crimes. A standard you have set yourself you sack of shit.
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November 8, 2013 4:54pm
Kea

Not to mention all the Police resources she drained that could have been used on real victims of Rape..

And the doubt that could be raised as a result. But she received no penalty. Suddenly rape is not so serious then !
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November 8, 2013 4:55pm
Gulag1917

Interesting thought

In his review of the book ‘The Undiscovered Self’ by the psychiatrist and philosopher Carl Jung, Maxwell Cynn suggests that:

“Dr. Jung noted that whenever individuals are pressed into a group an averaging effect occurs and part of the individual Self is sacrificed in order to fit-in to the norm of the group. We stop thinking in terms of Self and the group becomes our personae. The larger the group the more the individual suffers. He pointed to the Iron Curtain as a physical manifestation and symbol of a psychic schism within mankind.

He also warned that the freedom-loving West was not immune to the psychic infection of the communist Eastern Block, but rather more susceptible because of our free and open-minded societies. The fall of the Iron Curtain in modern times did not symbolize an end to the schism Jung described, but more ominously the acceptance in the West of collective ideals.

Jung’s words ring soundly today in our modern electronic society of larger groups, stronger connections, greater integration, and socio-political correctness. Our nationalism has turned to internationalism and our group has become global. Individualism is under greater assault today than at any point in history – Jung’s words live on in an almost prophetic sense. The Self continues to drown in a sea of collectivism.”
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November 8, 2013 5:22pm
Reid

PG, Hay fuckwit, how is that action going

Kea if I were you I’d withdraw and apologise. What you said is a bannable offence: http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/demerits – 100 points.

The odd thing is, you don’t seem to think you’ve done anything wrong.

OTY mate but you’re living dangerously if you don’t do anything about this. If Pete’s already reported it I suspect the only reason you’re still here is because DPF hasn’t had time to look at it. The clock’s ticking.
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November 8, 2013 5:35pm
mandk

@ Reid
Seconded.
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November 8, 2013 5:37pm
Nukuleka

From ‘The Independent’

‘Too many teachers have no respect for authority and are hampering schools’ attempts to improve standards, chief schools inspector Sir Michael Wilshaw said on Thursday.

He warned of headteachers being “undermined by a pervasive resentment of all things managerial” by some of their teaching staff.

Speaking at a conference organised by the Westminster Education Forum in London, he added: “Some teachers simply will not accept that a school isn’t a collective but an organisation with clear hierarchies and separate duties.”

In the 1970’s and 80’s, some councils did not care about appointing decent headteachers to run schools – and actively undermined those who were prepared to speak out against their vested interest, he added.

“Even today, too many teachers still think that school leaders do not have the right to tell them how to teach or what to do,” he said.

“The staff room, in their minds, is just as capable of deciding the direction a school should take as the senior leadership team.”

Sir Michael also warned heads not to try and “curry favour” with their staff, adding: “What’s worse (is) far too many school leaders seem to believe that they don’t have a right to manage, either.

“They worry constantly about staff reaction. … They seem to think they cannot act without their employees’ approval.

“Yes, you should consult with staff, Yes, you should explain. But never confuse consultation. We must take the staff with us at all costs, the misguided head would say.

“No, you mustn’t. Not if it means leaving the children behind.”

Heads must come up with a vision for their school which is more than “a natty slogan” which is put on its stationery and parroted by all the staff.

“It’s pointless concocting grand plans if the school playground is in a mess, uniforms are slovenly, staff are too casual, children pay more attention to their mobile phones than to the teachers and the school reception has all the charm of the check-in desk at Ryanair.”
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November 8, 2013 5:52pm
Kea

Kea if I were you I’d withdraw and apologise. What you said is a bannable offence: http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/demerits – 100 points.

Here is what I said:

Kea (8,892) Says:
November 8th, 2013 at 2:49 pm
Judith & PG, sorry but the lies of anti male hate groups do not count as evidence or fact.

What does PG, Graham Capill, and every rapist and kiddy fiddler have in common ? : They would all very strongly oppose rape if you asked them.

PG is totally full of shit and is not being honest about his motivation for this crusade.

1. The point is that loudly claiming the moral high ground is not evidence you occupy that high ground. I gave specific examples.

2. I accused PG of nothing. But even if I had, so what ? This filthy sack of shit has spent months accusing me, loving fathers, sons, husbands etc of being soft on rape or part of a rape culture. He has implied I am a rapist on numerous occasions. He is a vile nasty sneaky little prick. And his reaction to being knocked off his perch shows him to be a coward.

So Reid, what is with the double standard ? Fuck you too.
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November 8, 2013 5:58pm
kowtow

I wish we had a PM with an axe.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/here_comes_abbotts_axe/
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November 8, 2013 6:00pm
Kea

Oh ok then…………….

If PG can show me that Graham Capill did not stand on a soap box about sexual morality, I will withdraw my comment.

Or are you simply claiming Capill was innocent ?

You forgot to say.
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November 8, 2013 6:02pm
bereal

This is a most disgusting crime.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9377762/Sex-attack-on-woman-checking-mail

i hope NZ Police realise that this criminal is likely to be a young man (13-25 years old)
or a mentally retarded man with the mental age as above.

He will live locally, unlikely to own a car or have a drivers licence.

The victims house is likely to be between the criminals house and the local dairy or the
local liquor store or the local tinny house.

He will have a criminal record, this was not his first offence.

A door to door police inquiry could quickly identify suspects.

i hope NZ police in Hastings will mobilise all their resources, conduct a house to house inquiry
and bring this piece of shit to Justice ASAP.
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November 8, 2013 6:33pm
big bruv

Bereal

I watched the news report of that crime on TV One. It seems that our state owned television networks are no longer allowed to say that the man the Police are looking for is Maori.

The official line is that the Police are looking for a “brown skinned man”
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November 8, 2013 6:38pm
Reid

What does Kea, philu and every KB commenter with arrogance problems have in common?

They mistake KB for their own living room forgetting they’re here at someone else’s pleasure and sooner or later jump the shark into Deliverance territory, and DPF puts down his banjo and has a ‘chat’ with them.
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November 8, 2013 6:47pm
kowtow

To be fair ,they’ll be going on the descrption given by a very traumatised elderly woman.

No matter who did it,anyone that attacks an old dear like that (not talking this specific case of course) deserves a long drop through the old trap door.

shit I just had a terrible thought! kea will think this is a sisters’ conspiracy to get the law changed……..
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November 8, 2013 6:51pm
Kea

Reid, like the guy who has been accusing all the men in the country of being rapists ? Who accuses soldiers of being negligent fathers. ?

Or like the religious crack pots who come on here daily preaching hate against various groups ?

Or do you only mean the people with views YOU do not share ?
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November 8, 2013 6:52pm
UglyTruth

Shortly after the U.S. military was forced to vacate a base in Afghanistan’s Wardak province this spring, the bodies of 10 Afghan villagers were found nearby. All of the people had disappeared after being detained by U.S. Special Forces. The base was used by a unit known as “The A-Team,” which has also been linked to eight other murders in Wardak. The mystery behind the deaths is the center of a shocking new exposé which reports the disappearances and killings could amount to some of the gravest war crimes perpetrated by U.S. forces since the U.S.-led invasion in 2001. We are joined by Matthieu Aikins, an award-winning investigative journalist based in Kabul who spent five months investigating the killings for his Rolling Stone article, “The A-Team Killings.”

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/11/7/war_crimes_in_afghanistan_10_bodies
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November 8, 2013 6:52pm
bereal

big bruv

If the poor woman victim has been able to give police more info than has been reported
that would be good, maori, PI, indian, whatever brownskin…

If it turns out that Police have not bothered with a house to house and have not called in all available
staff to do so then that would be a fukin travesty.

This sickening crime should be very solveable if police act quickly.

If they have DNA evidence and sit on their arse relying on that then that would be sad.
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November 8, 2013 6:53pm
big bruv

Bereal.

You can be sure that had the man been Indian, PI or white for that matter then you can be bloody sure they would have said what his race is.
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November 8, 2013 6:58pm
Kea

Reid, I know you will struggle with the concept of integrity, but if it comes to a choice between posting on a blog, or standing up for what is right, telling the truth and freedom of speech, I will choose the later. There is no way I will back down to bullies and scum bags. The only way I will back down is to demonstrate how I am wrong. And personal attacks don’t count. Sorry bout that 🙂
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November 8, 2013 6:59pm
bereal

If your 87 year old Gran had been sexualy assaulted in her own home how would you feel
when you heard NZ Police issue a statement that said,
‘An investigation began yesterday, and
a full scene examination will be undertaken tomorrow?’

Fukin tomorrow. Tomorrow ? You must be joking.

Why not right now ? Now ?
‘Oh, we only operate 9-5 monday to friday.”

NZ Police,,,”You must understand, we can’t………..”

Fukin pathetic NZ Police.

This new Police Commissioner turns out to be a politically correct useless article.
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November 8, 2013 7:21pm
Kea

bereal, calm down. You can bet the Police are doing all they can. Also remember they use the media as a tool and often know way more than they let on.
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November 8, 2013 7:32pm
nasska

Photo of a bike gang taken two minutes before a pack rape. 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b09utvvcw69512t/KK%201.jpg
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November 8, 2013 7:43pm
kowtow

kea says “personal attacks don’t count”

bwahahahahahaha

troll.
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November 8, 2013 7:45pm
Kea

nasska, that is not even funny. Cyclists are all homos and sheep are of no interest to them.
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November 8, 2013 7:46pm
Kea

kowtow, how was your day mate ?

Any problems with Muslims, Atheists, Homos, Progs etc ? 🙂
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November 8, 2013 7:47pm
nasska

They’re probably rams Kea. 🙂
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November 8, 2013 7:47pm
Kea

Just as long he they were not drinking before hand, I guess it is ok nasska 🙂
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November 8, 2013 7:49pm

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