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November 25, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 November 2013

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General Debate

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Kea

Sidey, yes I read PG’s cry baby rant.

Did you see PG twittering David, demanding he read PG’s email more urgently ?
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November 25, 2013 2:11pm
Manolo

P.G. hasn’t changed an iota in your absence, Kea. He’s still the same sanctimonious, I-know-it-all, male-hater of old.
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November 25, 2013 2:15pm
dime

Grendel – sounds awesome. I will try and get to one next year!
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November 25, 2013 2:21pm
dime

Kea – welcome back you creepy arab

In your absence PG received new instructions from his dear leader. He now hates colin craig with a passion. He keeps parroting dung whenever he can. used words like “crazy”. Hes really influencing a lot of people.
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November 25, 2013 2:22pm
liarbors a joke

Murderer Macdonald, and all round scumbag, to stay behind bars…rot ya bastard..rot

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9438439/Macdonald-loses-parole-bid
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November 25, 2013 2:24pm
Longknives

Three ‘Thumbs Down’ already for my good-natured and well-meaning ‘Welcome Back Kea’?
Jesus it’s a tough crowd here on Kiwiblog!
I haven’t been this unpopular since I dared to suggest the current All Blacks weren’t the greatest sports team in the history of the universe…
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November 25, 2013 2:26pm
Longknives

liarbors a joke- We all eagerly await Anna Kardashian-Guy’s media release on the failed parole bid…you know it’s coming!
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November 25, 2013 2:27pm
nickb

Did you see PG twittering David, demanding he read PG’s email more urgently ?

Sure did!

Welcome back, Kea (or should that be Yousuf?) 🙂
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November 25, 2013 2:30pm
liarbors a joke

yes dead right LK…aint she up the spout? Imagine if it pops out looking like Macdonald…bawhahaha
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November 25, 2013 2:30pm
nickb

We all eagerly await Anna Kardashian-Guy’s media release on the failed parole bid…you know it’s coming!

Yup!!
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November 25, 2013 2:33pm
ciaron

Did you see PG twittering David, demanding he read PG’s email more urgently ?

What’s he obsessed with now? 🙂
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November 25, 2013 2:34pm
Kea

I see Red thought you were all not influential and important enough to speak to.

He always was a snob, slagging off honest working folk and farmers. [Apparently we don’t need food, shelter and essential services]
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November 25, 2013 2:35pm
Pete George

I don’t hate Colin Craig, he seems like a nice guy. I’ve said he should have got into Parliament in 2011 but for our ridiculous 5% threshold.

Unlike a number of others I’ve never said he is crazy. I think he’s a big risk for key and National, that’s all. As do others.

The problem for Key is that Craig is untested.

So far, all the signals point to him being nuttier than squirrel poo. Craig must now prove that he can firstly pull in the votes, and secondly, won’t make unreasonable demands when in Government.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/9436624/Craig-politics-nice-and-nutty

It’s others who ask the crazy question.

Conservative Party: Crazy or credible?

But the question remains, is Colin Craig crazy?

Much ridicule is directed at his unfashionable views on climate change, gay marriage and smacking. Among the more eye-popping of his opinions are that Kiwi youth are “the most promiscuous in the world”, that he could choose to be gay if he wanted to and that children sent to school without lunch should go without.

“I don’t know if I am a creationist or not,” he said.

“I’ve been told that I clearly am not, because I have to believe the world was here in seven days to be one. I, frankly, don’t have any idea. It’s not something that keeps me awake at night.”

There are some ideas there that tend towards the crazy but that doesn’t mean Craig is crazy.

But an important question is would Key be crazy to bet his political future on Craig? It could be the winning or losing of the election.
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November 25, 2013 2:37pm
Kea

dime, I have to admit some of what Colin Craig has said I really like. I do not even mind him believing in imaginary beings, as long as he does not let those imaginings guide the country.
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November 25, 2013 2:38pm
dime

“as long as he does not let those imaginings guide the country.”

thats pretty much what it comes down to. a lot of people cant seem to get that through their head.
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November 25, 2013 2:41pm
graham

Some other interesting quotes from that second link of yours Pete:

Craig’s opponents clearly now see him as a rival: David Cunliffe repeatedly refers to him as Crazy Colin. UnitedFuture leader Peter Dunne launched an astonishing attack yesterday on some of his former MPs, now with the Conservatives.

Craig shrugs this off. Perhaps Labour is worried that he is gaining ground among Pacific Islanders in South Auckland, he wonders.

“I noticed that he has adopted a slightly anti-Colin Craig rhetoric which I find interesting given that I’ve never met him . . . maybe it’s just because I am going to support National and it has just become politically the thing to say.”

He’s also not upset by Dunne’s insults, saying it is unfounded criticism from a “struggling” politician.

“He is talking out of a lot of disappointment. I mean it can’t be easy when at one stage you had eight MPs and he was really in the middle of it then. A lot has transpired, self-inflicted by and large, and now he struggles to get an annual conference together. As one person said to me: it’s not an annual conference, its a support group.”

…

He insists the Conservatives are not a Christian party – and says religion and politics should remain separate.
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November 25, 2013 2:42pm
nickb

The Colin Craig saga has really shown that the MSM’s pretence of impartiality has been blown apart.

First the Sunday Star-Times claiming Colin Craig supports burglars being shot on sight. Then incisive political expert and honeytrap exponent Andrea Vance calling him “nutty as squirrel shit”.

Jesus wept. How utterly thick do these people think we are that they have to put such a slant on all their political writing? This is putting aside the fact you would find more intelligent political commentary down at the local TAB.

Such inanity.

What next? Anna Guy for TV3 Chief Political reporter?
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November 25, 2013 2:43pm
nickb

thats pretty much what it comes down to. a lot of people cant seem to get that through their head.

Yup. For a supposed egalitarian country which purports to embrace freedom of religion, we sure are terribly bigoted at the merest sniff of Christian influence in politics.

What I find incredible is Colin Craig has received 100x the opprobrium that Ashraf Choudhary did when he refused to say the Qu’ran was wrong for saying gays should be stoned to death.

Seriously, whose influence would we rather have in NZ politics?
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November 25, 2013 2:46pm
nickb

As one person said to me: it’s not an annual conference, its a support group.”

Ouch!!
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November 25, 2013 2:48pm
Pete George

graham – I largely agree with the Craig comments you quote apart from his conference pissiness and he’s way off the mark calling UF a support group – lack of party support for Dunne is one of their biggest weaknesses. I cringed at Dunne’s cranky comments on Craig, I don’t think that will help him.

Interesting that Cunlliffe calls Craig crazy – and that’s a line being spun at The Standard (club Cunliffe). Ironic, Cunliffe’s behaviour has been noticeably crazier than Craig’s.

Who is crazier and more danger to the country – Craig, Cunliffe, Peters or Norman?

Craig doesn’t seem so bad.
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November 25, 2013 2:56pm
ciaron

Pete, are you looking to do a spot of waka-jumping there?
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November 25, 2013 3:08pm
Kea

nickb, I have no problem confronting people on their religious beliefs. But that should be done in an up front way. The media do not give conservatives a fair go, regardless of the merits in their policies. I dislike being told what to think by lefty media reporters.
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November 25, 2013 3:22pm
dime

**BREAKING NEWS**

Dung has realised Craig is in, no one cares what Dung thinks.

The UF army will now support the conservatives. Under no circumstances should they keep calling them crazy etc. The Dear Leader does not want to be seen as dead against them, he must now be welcoming or Key may withdraw dung treats. That is not on.
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November 25, 2013 3:24pm
Pete George

ciaron – I think I have a common problem, dissatisfaction or disillusionment with all the current wakas. As always I’m considering options – and hoping something much better miraculously emerges. National have been ok but can’t do it on their own, Dunne is generally reliable but is unlikely to be enough on his own, and the rest are a worry.
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November 25, 2013 3:31pm
Rich Prick

Penny, you ought to have a wee look at section 68 of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002. So too, should the Auckland Council, if it is to be fair to other rate-payers.
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November 25, 2013 3:36pm
dime

” Dunne is generally reliable but is unlikely to be enough on his own, and the rest are a worry.”

Dunne, that would be the one who resigned because hes dishonest? yeah, awesome.
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November 25, 2013 3:49pm
liarbors a joke

Sounds like PG’s ready to jump…watch this space
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November 25, 2013 3:52pm
UglyTruth

What I find incredible is Colin Craig has received 100x the opprobrium that Ashraf Choudhary did when he refused to say the Qu’ran was wrong for saying gays should be stoned to death.

It’s just another case of people making shit up about the Quran, I expect.
There is a reference to the destruction of Sodom, Surah 7:81

“For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.”

Nothing there about stoning to death, also nothing there about female homosexuality.
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November 25, 2013 3:53pm
Manolo

As always I’m considering options – and hoping something much better miraculously emerges…

It reads as: Make me an offer, for sale at the highest bidder, flexible enough to transact with any party, scruples-free territory.

Jeepers, this guy couldn’t be anything but a UnitedFuture carrying-card member!
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November 25, 2013 4:02pm
nasska

Ugly Truth

….”It’s just another case of people making shit up about the Quran, I expect.”….

You missed a few more references:

….”Qur’an (7:80-84) – “…For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds…. And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)” – An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the “rain of stones” on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people’s destruction. (The story is also repeated in suras 27 and 29).”……

There’s plenty more in this article on the religion of hatred & intolerance. :

Ref: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/026-homosexuality.htm
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November 25, 2013 4:52pm
Ryan Sproull

Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted

So Choudhary’s crime here was refusing to agree with one particular “through the centuries” interpretation?

That’s a tough test to pass.
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November 25, 2013 5:01pm
Rowan

No early release for Ewen MacDonald

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9438439/Macdonald-loses-parole-bid
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November 25, 2013 5:02pm
Kea

nasska , the bible also very clearly demands true christians to stone homos to death.
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November 25, 2013 5:02pm
nasska

Kea

The OT & parts of the Quran were written about four thousand years ago….as such they reflect the mores of the time & I’m inclined to go along with practitioners of both faiths who argue along those lines.

I’m not however, prepared to let slide instances where instructions from either book are cherry picked to suit the bias of the 21st century adherent & that is what we witness here repeatedly.

And welcome back. 🙂
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November 25, 2013 5:15pm
Kea

nasska, yes it is funny hearing christians tell us gods word is out of date.
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November 25, 2013 5:20pm
Ryan Sproull

nasska, yes it is funny hearing christians tell us gods word is out of date.

Yes, the thinking goes something like this…

1: I am right.
2: God is right.
3: Therefore, whatever my opinions are, God shares them.
4: I don’t think a particular part of the Bible/Qu’ran/whatever is literally right.

Therefore, God can’t have reaaaaaally meant that part. “You’re reading it wrong.”

Welcome back, Kea.
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November 25, 2013 5:26pm
wat dabney

“The OT & parts of the Quran were written about four thousand years ago….as such they reflect the mores of the time…”

You are advocating moral relativism, which is precisely what “Christians” claim to deplore.
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November 25, 2013 5:29pm
Ryan Sproull

You are advocating moral relativism, which is precisely what “Christians” claim to deplore.

Technically, it’s dispensationalism, rather than moral relativism.
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November 25, 2013 5:37pm
Steve (North Shore)

ciaron (1,028) Says:
November 25th, 2013 at 3:08 pm
Pete, are you looking to do a spot of waka-jumping there?

If Pete jumps into another Waka it will have two coxmen and a crew that can ‘about face’ and the Waka will travel in both directions faster than an AC72 on foils
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November 25, 2013 5:53pm
Steve (North Shore)

Gee negative one already – thanks PG
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November 25, 2013 5:57pm
Steve (North Shore)

Sidey (173) Says:
November 25th, 2013 at 2:02 pm
Kea, while you were in the sin-bin, the others all ganged up on Red and he ran to the hills wearing his y-fronts on his head with a pencil up each nostril. I believe it’s all part of the 20 year master plan.

For some reason I have this image of Redblatter running round and round Mt Mauganui thinking the progs are chasing him
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November 25, 2013 6:00pm
Rowan

Liarbors a joke @ 2.24
There is no evidence that EM was the killer, the crown case was a joke and only had suspicions with a total lack of evidence.
The case was so weak he should never have been charged, Read Mike Whites book on the case, its highly implausible that it was EM. But I guess you ‘know’ better don’t you?
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November 25, 2013 6:13pm
Rowan

I see GD is back to the religous hate columns now that its most prolific troll Kea is back.
Kea, its okay that you don’t have any belief in religion, however many NZer’s do have religous faith and a ‘god’ of some sort or another, thats okay to, but we don’t need to listen to your bigoted hate columns of how god ‘doesn’t exist’
So bugger of until you can contribute more than just adding to DPFs KB blog statistics.
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November 25, 2013 6:18pm
thedavincimode

For some reason I have this image of Redblatter running round and round Mt Mauganui thinking the progs are chasing him

Hopefully he is boning up on his algebra so that the full implications of his stunning confession the other day might be revealed to him:

Let:

a = Ford Mustang convertible
b = Ford F150 “truck”
c = a 300 watt amplifier
d = a 1000 watt speaker,

Find X, where a + b + 2c + 2 d = X

It goes without saying that X = small penis. But then he knows that already 🙂
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November 25, 2013 6:30pm
nasska

Rowan

Without Kea & a few others the comments sections of this blog would become a festering circlejerk of extreme conservative propaganda & Christian moralising. Day after day the anti abortion, anti euthanasia & anti everything else except religion brigade hammer their crap to their hearts content.

There are other views.
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November 25, 2013 6:42pm
kowtow

The “circlejerk” is nasska and his drones on a daily basis engaging in a hate fest of all things they don’t approve of,dressed up as humour ,but actually bigotry of the first order.
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November 25, 2013 6:59pm
Ryan Sproull

Remember when DPF had a separate “General Religious Debate” thread or whatever? Good times.
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November 25, 2013 7:00pm
chiz

Ed Miliband attacks Lynton Crosby.
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November 25, 2013 7:04pm
Pete George

There were recent discussions about whether Michael Clarke qualified as a cricketing great or not. His behaviour in a test (that was virtually won anyway) was not good for a captain and far from great.
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November 25, 2013 7:08pm
chiz

Remember when DPF had a separate “General Religious Debate” thread or whatever?

No. There have discussions about this but I don’t recall it ever actually being done.
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November 25, 2013 7:44pm
big bruv

“The “circlejerk” is nasska and his drones on a daily basis engaging in a hate fest of all things they don’t approve of”

Bullshit. What you have described is religion. It is the bible thumpers who spend all day trying to control the rest of us, you guys simply cannot leave other people alone to get on with their lives in a manner that they see fit.
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November 25, 2013 7:47pm
Kea

Rowan, why do you think your right to tell lies about the existence of middle Eastern cult figures should trump my right to tell the truth ?

I doubt you really mean what you said. You said nothing when other religions were attacked, only your own filthy blood soaked cult.
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November 25, 2013 7:51pm
Don the Kiwi

Good to see you back, Kea. 🙂

Yes, I am serious. Most topics you discuss are reasoned and any debate on them is generally also reasoned.
But please, if you want to argue a point of a religious nature, all you display in the way you have presented your arguments in the past is as a hateful bigot.

I have no problem people disagreeing with me on my religious – or any other – views. But the subject needs to be put in clear manner, with a degree of respect to the person you disagree with, or wish to debate with.

nasska –
The same applies to you – I enjoy your sense of humour and the manner in which – most times, you discuss a given point – religious or otherwise.

Unfortunately, most times the remarks descend into namecalling and abuse – so the response is predictable – fire with fire.

Have a good night, and I promise not to bring up the topic of religion, though I will defend it where necessary. 🙂
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November 25, 2013 7:55pm
Steve (North Shore)

“Remember when DPF had a separate “General Religious Debate” thread or whatever?

No. There have discussions about this but I don’t recall it ever actually being done.”

Never seen it, if it did happen it was during one of my blackouts. The Generally Religious Debaters take the berly hook line sinker and most of the arm – then they won’t conced that they have been porked and just carry on all day with the copy and paste bullshit.
Fills up the page and the hits that DPF gets. Very little of this goes on at that other blog
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November 25, 2013 7:57pm
kowtow

bigot bruv is another circlejerker with an anti Christian obsession.
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November 25, 2013 8:05pm
big bruv

kowtow

Anti religious obsession please. I can assure you that I despise all religions equally.
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November 25, 2013 8:07pm
dad4justice

bigot bruv is a hateful sod. His demons make his rants pure insanity. Take no notice of the deranged creep.
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November 25, 2013 8:07pm
big bruv

Hey D4J, where have you been? Were you locked up or something?
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November 25, 2013 8:15pm
Kea

Don the kiwi, how did you fail to mention kowtow in your comments about hateful bigots ?
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November 25, 2013 8:17pm
dad4justice

bigot bruv just spent 40 days on Mount Sinai you wacko.
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November 25, 2013 8:19pm
big bruv

D4J

You were away from this blog for months. Certainly a lot longer than 40 days.

How did you manage to get a visa given your past?

And where were you for the rest of that time?

Come on…you can tell uncle Bruv. Did they lock you up for a few months?
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November 25, 2013 8:24pm
dad4justice

Sad to see the deranged bigot bruv’s pathological obsession with my life has not diminished with time.
Freaks like him should be in straight jackets.
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November 25, 2013 8:28pm
big bruv

Just concerned for your well being D4J. Hell, I even came down to Chch looking for you such was the level of my concern, plus, I knew how much you wanted to meet me so I thought that I may as well have a look around while I was down there.

I searched and searched all the demo sites, yet nobody had heard of you D4J.

Do you find that astounding?
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November 25, 2013 8:31pm
dad4justice

“I searched and searched all the demo sites.”

I do remember a nutbar visiting with a straight jacket on. He got kicked off the site for not wearing a hard hat or high viz. Get a life insane one. Lol what a creep.
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November 25, 2013 8:38pm
big bruv

Now now D4J, there is no need for abuse.

So come on, where were you for all those months?
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November 25, 2013 8:41pm
Rowan

Kea, I belong to no cult and have shared no lies here, you have a ‘belief’ that there is no God, others have various gods be they Christians, Jews, Mormons, Buddhist, Hindu etc etc,
What gives you the right to defame others for what they belief?
Since there is no absolute proof of the existence or absence of a God it comes down to individuals belief at the end of the day.
Your bigoted hate columns is just basically forcing your view of atheism on others, if a Christian person was doing it you would call it bible-bashing.
I knew of a lady a number of years ago that would stand outside in the streets, school assemblies and other public places shouting out her views in religion, and how we all needed Jesus for salvation etc, She was eventually arrested for doing it in a tangi.
There is no need to try and force your views on others, as you seem to turn GD into a religious hate debate.
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November 25, 2013 8:45pm
stigie

Ole Dad just cant help himself with the abuse. Same as Reddy with the Skoda !
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November 25, 2013 8:47pm
big bruv

D4J

You believe in the sky fairy don’t you?
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November 25, 2013 8:51pm
Viking2

The rich get richer,
ain’t it great.

Two-child China a boon for baby milk

Two-child China a boon for baby milk

By Christopher Adams
5:30 AM Monday Nov 25, 2013

Infant formula makers expect the $15 billion Chinese market to double by 2017, even without the effects of a relaxation of the one-child policy.

The loosening of China’s one-child policy is expected to provide a boost for New Zealand infant formula exporters

The US$12.4 billion ($15.13 billion) Chinese infant formula market is expected to double in size by 2017, according to Euromonitor data compiled before the policy change.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11162193

Now I reckon that will see $11-12.00 for milk solids.
Seems like diary is a good investment.
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November 25, 2013 9:04pm
Viking2

Now if you don’t have milk but do have other stuff to sell.

Alibaba is an online trading company with a staff of more than 25,000 which does more business than eBay and Amazon combined.

Bloomberg has reported that Alibaba is heading for an IPO, possibly next year, which may make it the second largest internet company in the world, behind Google.

Joyce met the company’s chief executive, Jonathan Lu, during his visit to Hangzhou.

The meeting took place on November 12, the day after “bachelors’ day” which is becoming “singles’ day” – a day of celebration and shopping.

“It’s huge,” said Joyce.

“On November 11 they sold 35 billion yuan ($6.9 billion) worth of stuff in that one day through their website and it generated 140 million separate packages for delivery around China.”

Joyce said Lu was a regular visitor to New Zealand and was coming down during summer.

got something to sell?

Economic Development Minister Steven Joyce has had talks with internet giant Alibaba in China about setting up a New Zealand-based section of the site.

wow, wow.
stop whining you lazy buggers a get to work. Your country needs you.
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November 25, 2013 9:07pm
Viking2

And for fun.
gotta watch this twice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lncwRnV4Gsg&feature=m-ch-fea&app=desktop
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November 25, 2013 9:08pm
liarbors a joke

“The case was so weak he should never have been charged, Read Mike Whites book on the case, its highly implausible that it was EM. But I guess you ‘know’ better don’t you?”

Yes I do Rowan…he murdered a shitload of bobby calves didnt he Rowan…and he admitted it didnt he Rowan…
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November 25, 2013 9:26pm
Rowan

Yes Liarbors

He did kill the cows, stags burnt down the old house and damaged Scott and Kylees new house etc.
This is not in dispute and that is what he is serving time in jail for.

However the point I was making is that there is no evidence that he killed Scott Guy, and quite a bit that he didn’t. The only ‘evidence’ that he did was these other crimes committed against Scott and Kylee some 18 months beforehand. It’s quite a big jump to go from this to ‘therefore he must be guilty of Scotts murder’ just because he is an arsehole. To be the killer he has to be at Scotts gate with a shotgun that morning and there is a lot of holes in this the biggest being its actually impossible to be in two places at once, (3 witnesses heard shots around 5am, and EM was unlocking his milking shed at 5.02). Quite a lot more holes in the case as well that it resembles more of a fairy story than a plausible explanation for Scotts death.
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November 25, 2013 9:37pm
liarbors a joke

Is that the best you can do Rowan…give me a thumbs down..

“Murderer Macdonald, and all round scumbag, to stay behind bars…rot ya bastard..rot”

Where did I say he murdered Scott Guy ?
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November 25, 2013 9:38pm
Kea

Rowan you could advance the exact same argument for the existence of anything . Magic dragons and pixies, you name it. At least people who believe in pixies don’t
spread war and misery around the world.

The point you miss is the lack of evidence.

You don’t believe in other Incredible claims with no evidence so why this one ? It is called special pleading.
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November 25, 2013 9:45pm
Rowan

Liarbors
Try the “murderer” part, killing animals doesn’t cut it as ‘murder’ I’ve been rabbit and possum shooting, does that make me a ‘murderer’ to?
Who else are you inferring he killed? (other than Scott Guy)
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November 25, 2013 9:51pm
Harriet

The science of physics shows us that bumble bees can’t fly. All 3ylds observe that they do indeed fly.

Adult physicists spend their lifetime trying to show us that it is not possable that God could’ve created the universe.

Yeah. right.
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November 25, 2013 9:55pm
chiz

Ah, the old bumblebee myth.

And physicists don’t spend their time as you suggest. They spend their time trying to understand the universe. That their work reduces any need for god to explain things is a by-product.
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November 25, 2013 10:03pm
Rowan

I’m not arguing for the existence of anything Kea, (Nor am I trying to bible bash religion down your throat). We all have freedom of choice, which includes the right to belong to any religion groups we choose to.
Hating people based on their beliefs is just pointless as is your bigoted religious hate columns which you tend to turn GD into daily.
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November 25, 2013 10:03pm
SPC

The British are going to emulate Oz and cap lending returns (on Oz 4% per month and a maximum fee of 20% of the loan) and require credit checks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25083701
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November 25, 2013 10:03pm
Kea

Harriet, physics says no such thing about bumblebees.

Science is about evidence. Bumblebees fly. Where is your evidence for God ?
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November 25, 2013 10:04pm
chiz

Ecological footprint claims don’t measure up:

HAVE you heard the one about the 1.5 Earths? Chances are you have: it is one of the most widely quoted ecological statistics of all, an easy-to-understand measure of our impact on the planet. Each year we consume 50 per cent more resources than Earth can regenerate. Scary.

The number has gained widespread currency, cited by governments, news media and in reports from United Nations agencies. But a recent analysis suggests that it is nonsense.

For people who can’t be bothered reading the link, it turns out that its due to CO2 accounting:

[…]where does the headline figure, about us consuming half a planet more than we have, come from?

The answer is a final category: the land that we use to soak up surplus carbon emissions. Or rather – since we know most of our carbon emissions are not being soaked up but are accumulating in the atmosphere – the land we would use if we had it. This category accounts for 8 billion hectares of our total footprint of 18 billion. In fact, as Breakthrough points out, “the entire overshoot is human emissions of carbon”, converted into a proxy measure of land area.
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November 25, 2013 10:16pm
Kea

Rowan it is not the people or their religion i hate. It is the incredible harm done when the two combine. Most of my mates are believers and some are very religious.
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November 25, 2013 10:16pm
Rowan

Kea
So you give us the daily diatribe of religious hate columns because of extremist acts such as the bombing of the twin towers by the Islams, showing there hatred of America, so that we don’t go the same way and try something similar in the name of our ‘God’?

Pull the other one, have you really converted a believer here on KB by any of your arguments? I don’t think you would find many atheists who have converted from previously being a religious believer based on any of Richard Dawkins arguments.
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November 25, 2013 10:25pm
Kea

Rowan, thanks for your concern, but I will continue to tell the truth and promote reason ahead of
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November 25, 2013 10:38pm
Dennis Horne

Religious freedom is a political concept. It is not a universal right. It is merely permission we give ourselves, in some societies. It is the freedom to be rational or irrational. Providing you pay your taxes and don’t break the law. Essentially no different from the right to believe the Earth is flat (or not), the state demolished the Twin Towers (or not), MI6 killed Diana (or not).

That does not give it any special status, unlike science, which requires evidence that can be verified of falsified.
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November 25, 2013 10:47pm
RichardX

Harriet (3,063) Says:
November 25th, 2013 at 9:55 pm
The science of physics shows us that bumble bees can’t fly. All 3ylds observe that they do indeed fly.

Adult physicists spend their lifetime trying to show us that it is not possable that God could’ve created the universe.

Yeah. right.

More intellectual dishonesty
You don’t have a clue and no matter how strong you faith or convictions, until you open your mind and actually learn something through research and critical thinking, you won’t get a clue

Some physicists are interested in the origins of time and space because they do not suspend their thought processes just because a book tells them to. This does not mean they spend their “lifetime trying to show us that it is not possable [sic] that God could’ve created the universe”
No one has disproved the existence of a god and no one ever will but here is some interesting work on possible alternatives that will be proved or disproved over time as evolution has been proved over time
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November 25, 2013 11:43pm
LabourDoesntWork

nasska , the bible also very clearly demands true christians to stone homos to death.

It’s amusing to see atheists make the same wrong application of Torah Law as some homicidal religious fanatic would.

In this case misapplying that given to Israel during the pre-Messianic/Temple period to all Christians. Torah Law wasn’t even given to non-Jews.

Chalk it up as one more reason why militant atheists are, typically, obnoxious arseholes – Unsurprisingly, arseholes who outnumber Christians that stone homosexuals by approximately umpteen to zero.
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November 26, 2013 1:51am
LabourDoesntWork

it is not the people or their religion i hate. It is the incredible harm done when the two combine.

I agree. And undoubtedly the most evil and destructive religion is leftism. There is solid history regarding dozens of atheist leaders responsible for orders of magnitude more deaths than the worst absolute Christian ruler. Interestingly, children’s bicycles have killed more people than 400 years of the Spanish Inquisition, with on average 130 deaths per year versus 9. (The Irrational Atheist, page 219)
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November 26, 2013 2:03am
SPC

Dennis, is there really any distinction between a political concept and a universal right in such matters as freedom of thought/ speech and belief/religion?

The values are held to be universal ones, and the absence of respect for upholding them by some territorial bodies does not make them less than universal in their nature/scope.

See the UN Declaration of Human Rights.

It’s interesting that you regard obligation to pay taxes and obey the law as universal – as in obedience to a governing order that can in your eyes limit the universality of human rights. This demonstrates a respect for power over people. The special status you say the physical sciences have, is as of a universal truth. However while one could call science of some natural law, the area of academic freedom (to determine it) is also premised as a universal human right.
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November 26, 2013 2:22am
Manolo

The joys of French socialism: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/french-riders-protest-over-tax-saying-horses-suffer-155855564–rah.html
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November 26, 2013 6:50am
Dennis Horne

@SPC. Thanks. A problem with words. I don’t see religious freedom as universal therefore it cannot be a universal right, whatever a “right” is. In fact, I see “human rights” as nothing more than what we gift ourselves; we have no other “rights”. (Academic freedom included.) We exist and we can make rules. Politics.

As long as you pay taxes … I was being facetious, but basically the state doesn’t care about religious beliefs – in states where there is religious freedom that is.

Personally I would submit myself to rationality. I think religiosity is irrational and unnecessary. Accepted but unfortunate.
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November 26, 2013 8:37am
peterwn

Calendar Girl – The 10% penalties are pretty well automatic and the annual 10%’s compound. Presumably Penny Bright has a mortgage free property so the Council cannot tap the mortgagee on the shoulder as it would usually do. You are right in questioning why the Council have not acted in her case. It seems to me that as Council elections have just been, now is a good time to start the process of a Rating Act sale. This needs to be carefully PR’d since the ousted ratepayer can try and martyr him or herself – but then there are plenty of spin weasels in Len’s office to handle this.
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November 26, 2013 8:41am
Rowan

Kea,

I guess it comes down to faith at the end of the day, wheres your proof for evolution? I have faith that my great great grandfather was a person and not a monkey, I never met him, and neither did anyone of my family so I don’t have the ultimate proof but I still believe that he was.
How about you? Maybe you are the mutant retard offspring of a fishfrog having buttsex with a squirrel!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LzSX37C5J4
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November 26, 2013 10:57am

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