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November 10, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 10 November 2013

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General Debate

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big bruv

Has Len Brown resigned yet?
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November 10, 2013 8:02am
Right of way is Way of Right

He may have done, it’s not like anyone’s seen him at all this week!
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November 10, 2013 8:05am
Keeping Stock

Melbourne’s herald-Sun is reporting that the Mongrel Mob is trying to get itself established in western Melbourne, and get a foothold into the Melbourne drug trade.

So here’s a suggestion; how about we start an appeal to buy one-way tickets for every Mongrel Mob member to go to Melbourne to help their doggie brethren. Given that Australian bikie gangs are unlikely to take kindly to newcomers muscling in on their patch, this could pay dividends on both sides of the Tasman 😀

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/11/emigrants-we-dont-mind.html
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November 10, 2013 8:10am
Longknives

‘Jizzy Len’ the Masturbating Mayor must go!!
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November 10, 2013 8:10am
iMP

It’s Sunday. A day to pepper spray the atheist wasp nest? Evolution is Unscientific Crap! Here’s the scientific proof.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/11/10/evolution-is-unscientific-crap-heres-the-proof/
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November 10, 2013 8:13am
lilman

I see the Roastbuster are living in fear it say in the paper.
Good bloody job.
Little arseholes deserve all they get and more.
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November 10, 2013 8:24am
Dennis Horne

You have a large group of teenage boys or various ages. You give each the keys to some Porsche 911s and explain that no one must drive them until they have their driving licences and advanced training – that is the law and proper behaviour.

How many Pete Georges would it take to work out what is likely to happen?
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November 10, 2013 8:26am
Pete George

Dennis, is that a round about way of trying to make excuses for rapists or something? Are you trying to say that teenage boys can’t really be blamed for whatever they might be tempted to do?
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November 10, 2013 8:33am
Griff

look its a god nut
who thinks god made it is science
😆
who made god?
answer Man made god in his image.
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November 10, 2013 8:36am
kowtow

Keeping Stock

Bullets are a heck of a lot cheaper than air tickets.That’s the answer to the gangs.
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November 10, 2013 8:37am
Dennis Horne

Anyone who doesn’t believe in evolution doesn’t understand it. Cars have evolved, visit the Mercedes Museum in Stuttgart and see how early 3l engines developed say 2kW and now they develop 200kW.

The difference between cars and animals is that cars need to be manufactured and animals are born, that is, animals breed.

In both cars and animals improvements are discovered by trial and error, in both cars and animals failures are discarded, the only difference is cars improve by manufacture and animals improve by breeding.
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November 10, 2013 8:37am
big bruv

“Bullets are a heck of a lot cheaper than air tickets”

That’s not very Christian Kowtow.

Or are you just another religious hypocrite?
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November 10, 2013 8:42am
Dennis Horne

@Pete George. No, Pete, it’s a roundabout way of saying the Law doesn’t stop people doing bad things. It merely punishes them if it catches them and they have a poor defence lawyer. Ask David Bain.

If you want your teenage daughter to be bullied into intercourse, send her to an unsupervised party in skimpy clothes and tell her to get drunk. Yes/No?
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November 10, 2013 8:43am
nasska

Dennis

You’ve covered machines & animals….in both cases the best features of the fittest survive & incremental improvement results.

Now consider the lot of humans….slums full of fecund breeders responding to the incentives of the state to breed for bucks.

We’ve buggered around with nature on this one.
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November 10, 2013 8:46am
Pete George

How many parents do you think do that Dennis?

And how many parents tell their boys to go to parties, get girls drunk and “take advantage of” them?
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November 10, 2013 8:48am
eszett

iMP (1,714) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 8:13 am
It’s Sunday. A day to pepper spray the atheist wasp nest? Evolution is Unscientific Crap! Here’s the scientific proof.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/11/10/evolution-is-unscientific-crap-heres-the-proof/

LOL

Your “pepperspray” expired over a centriy ago. All it does is makes one slightly giggle.
No better way to show off your ignorance on the subject than to quote Ray Comfort.

http://www.jesusandmo.net/2013/07/03/pow/
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November 10, 2013 8:49am
Judith

@ Dennis Horne (1,893) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 8:26 am

So teenage boys have the right to do whatever they want because they are ‘teenage boys’, but teenage girls should be made to live with restrictions, because they are teenage girls?

What about the teenage boys that attack old ladies? I suppose you’d like old ladies to live with restrictions as well – after all collecting ones mail from a letter box is a highly provocative action?

And what about that little girl asleep in a caravan – I suppose her pj’s were too provocative, – just asking for a teenage boy to break in and rape her – naughty provocative 6 year old?

What about teenage boys that stab other teenage boys? How do we treat that one?

Teenage boys are members of society and must learn to live within the bounds of it – just like every other member of society. If they cannot control their animal urges then they are not fit to live in the community until they can. Society ceased allowing people to live by their basic animal instincts a long time ago – sure, we all have them – but the law requires us to control them, and the very large majority manage to do so. If a person is old enough to know right from wrong, they are old enough to control their physical urges.
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November 10, 2013 8:52am
big bruv

The NZ sporting press are at it already this morning.

Grant Nisbett starts with “NZ V France, two great rugby nations”

Of course that is a blatant lie, the French as a rule take no notice of rugby, we insist on telling lies about the level of interest in French rugby simply so we can beat up the NZ team to be more than they are.

Oh….and go France!
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November 10, 2013 8:52am
OneTrack

Pete – Well the schools tell the guys and girls that they EXPECT them to be sexually active and tell them how to go about it. Does that have any affect?
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November 10, 2013 8:54am
Northland Wahine

and it turns out Tamihere has known the Parker boy for years… watches JT’s career fade further into oblivion.
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November 10, 2013 8:55am
Judith

@ Dennis Horne (1,893) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 8:43 am

And if you want your son to be a rapist – you send him to a teenage party?

Or do you tell him the social rules, that if someone says NO, they mean NO, and that if he plies them with alcohol and they are unable to say yes or no, then he must resist and find another release for his sexual urges. Rather a son that is a wanker than a son that is a rapist. It sounds to me that you are promoting encouraging young men to break the law.
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November 10, 2013 8:56am
big bruv

Got a link to that Wahine?

If that is indeed true then JT I well and truly stuffed…………oh hang on, he is a leftie so he will not resign.
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November 10, 2013 8:56am
Dennis Horne

@Pete George. Judith.

I think people should behave. I think violent rapists and murderers should be executed. I think I should run the world. What do you think?
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November 10, 2013 8:58am
Northland Wahine

big bruv, not sure how to post a link, I read it herald online this morning as part of the story “young sex braggart does vanishing act”
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November 10, 2013 9:02am
Left Right and Centre

wow- have you heard of the new KB pop sensation ? It’s ‘Jude & The Strawpeople’. Shit – it’s stuck mate – someone help me with this. Dime ? RRM? Longkniiiiiiiiiiiives !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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November 10, 2013 9:04am
Northland Wahine

Judith… a few teenage boys, a very very small percentage.
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November 10, 2013 9:07am
kowtow

Ah that’s what’s got bigot bruv exercised this morning,it’s a Sunday ,the Lord’s Day,and one of his other great hates New Zealand rugby, is on the world stage.
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November 10, 2013 9:09am
Nostradamus

The article Northland Wahine is referring to is here:

To complicate matters, broadcaster John Tamihere and Parker’s stepfather have known each other for years. But the source claims Tamihere had not known the stepfather was related to Parker when he conducted his now infamous radio interview with 18-year-old “Amy”, a friend of one of the Roast Buster victims.

…

Tamihere’s stepson, Katene Durie-Doherty, is Facebook friends with several of the Roast Busters.

This week Durie-Doherty tweeted: “People need to chill on the whole roast buster tantrum people are just constently repeating the same opinions over and over again #laugh.”

Hmmm…
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November 10, 2013 9:09am
Left Right and Centre

NW – claims to have spent ten years in the system. Perception bias. Good luck being rational.
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November 10, 2013 9:10am
Judith

Northland Wahine (521) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 9:07 am

I totally agree, it is a very very small number of teenage boys. The vast majority are nothing like this lot – and yet some people are promoting it as its ‘just what teenagers do’. It is not – I have an 18 year old, and two son’s older than that. It was not what they did, or what their friends did. I have dealt with many young teenagers in the Courts, it was not what the majority of them did – it is a very very small group of young males – but regardless of that, it needs to stop and to ensure others do not take their example, it needs to be shown by official action that society will not tolerate it.
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November 10, 2013 9:10am
Pete George

Three close friends of the Roast Busters sex gang say the group’s ringleaders exaggerated many of their sexual exploits to impress their classmates and were now living in fear of their lives due to the public’s reaction to the scandal.

Three childhood friends of the boys at the centre of the teen sex controversy spoke out for the first time yesterday on condition of anonymity.

They told the Sunday Star-Times those in the group made up many of their claims about sex with drunk girls and never targeted those who were under-age.

The Roast Busters associates, who deny being part of the group and claim they have never been present during a “roast”, said much of what was posted on social media was “a joke”.

“I hang out with them and go to parties with them,” one friend said. “They’re good people, one on one. It’s all a persona, a front, like ‘we’re bad, we get with girls’.

“None of us thought it would come this far. At the start it was a joke between the bros. It wasn’t a big deal but then those two made choices and they have to deal with it. I think making a Facebook page and publicising [the Roast Busters] was the stupidest thing they could have done.”

The group also denied the Roast Busters specifically targeted under-age girls in order to get them drunk and have group sex with them. “No, it wasn’t like that because you go to parties and you see girls and they lie about their age and stuff.”

However, a female friend of the pair said it was common knowledge the Roast Busters had sex with 13-year-olds – when the boys themselves were under 16.

“He’s definitely had sex with people that are under-age,” she said about one of the gang, “but everyone has nowadays. That’s how society is so stuffed up nowadays, people are having sex when they’re 12, 13. It’s just life, it just happens. He’s not the only one who’s done it,” she told the Star-Times yesterday.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9383119/Friends-of-Roast-Busters-speak-out
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November 10, 2013 9:11am
Harriet

Yeah but Judith;

Is it ok to ply them with alcohol until they say yes – given that they haven’t said no to alcohol?
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November 10, 2013 9:11am
Azeraph

Northland Wahine (520) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 9:02 am

Yeah, it was bound to happen. They would have to disappear but this episode might work towards deterring any copy cat or current groups out there from ever publishing their nasty business. Why? They have had front line seats at what happens when society notices and the fact they never realized having all their info online, facial features count as info as someone will always recognize another acquaintance if they are in the public eye can damage them ,for life. It’s worse if they are not convicted, at least if they face a court action they can pay for their stupidity and they can put it behind them.
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November 10, 2013 9:15am
Northland Wahine

LRAC? huh?

who claims what and what system?
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November 10, 2013 9:15am
Yvette

Dennis – you are juggling rapists and evolution at the same time.
The former [rapists] may be devolution, but in your evolution theory [cars] – early 3l engines developed say 2kW and now they develop 200kW – what we want is an example of change of kind – a car that by accidental mutation, but survival of the fittest, evolved into a plane.
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November 10, 2013 9:18am
Judith

@ Harriet (2,931) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 9:11 am
Yeah but Judith;

Is it ok to ply them with alcohol until they say yes – given that they haven’t said no to alcohol?

Of course its not okay to ply anyone with alcohol regardless of age, with the sole intention of getting them drunk enough that they will have sex with you. If you can’t achieve it from your own ‘charm’ then having to take action to ‘make’ someone is pathetic.

Sure, I agree that the girls have willingly consumed alcohol – but there is a fine line there – they are young and inexperienced, and unable to understand the links between the two. On the other hand, an older female should know what effects alcohol has, but then there is the threat of ‘date rape drugs’.

I agree that young girls shouldn’t dress provocatively, shouldn’t perform actions like twerking, and shouldn’t drink when they don’t know enough about the substance – but this is not an ideal world – however, it has been claimed that these young men kept themselves sober, they applied alcohol with the sole intention of having sex with the girls – that cannot be condoned either.

However all of that is a legal matter – my concern is the manner in which those young men behaved on social media. The naming of the girls, the descriptions of their intimate body parts, the photos they took without the girls permission, the abuse and the denigration – that is not acceptable and regardless of whether evidence of rape is found or not – it is what did happen as far as facebook and at least six other social media sites that we, as members of the voting community, can request something be done to prevent it.
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November 10, 2013 9:20am
Left Right and Centre

NW – little miss state the unbelievably bleedin obvious. ‘She’ claims to have spent ten years babysitting serious sex offenders or something.
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November 10, 2013 9:20am
Harriet

“…..and yet some people are promoting it as its ‘just what teenagers do’. It is not…..”

There you go being silly again Judith. And hypocritical.

Whenever I bring up the fact that teenage sex is a matter of morality and not medicine, usually on the topic of abortion, you are usually the first to claim “…..you can’t stop that as it is what teenagers have always done and they’ll keep doing it away from adults…”

The simple ‘equality’ answer is that BOTH young men and young women should have morals installed into them with regards to their behaviour towards themselves AND others.
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November 10, 2013 9:21am
Left Right and Centre

Police have sat on their hands for two years – so – the roastfuckers should get their comeuppance, oooo, what you reckon – any day soon. Eh.
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November 10, 2013 9:23am
Harriet

“….‘She’ claims to have spent ten years babysitting serious sex offenders or something….”

She made the same claim towards victims of rape…..but when asked some basic questions about abortion…..she clams up.

I think it’s all rubbish.
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November 10, 2013 9:23am
Left Right and Centre

Harriet – oooo… I would’ve gone with ‘instilled in them’. Installed makes it sound like a hardware upgrade. You hate to see it…..
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November 10, 2013 9:26am
Northland Wahine

Judith, I have to agree with Harriet there…

morals are not for Christians only, nor should it be a gender issue. it’s about teaching all our kids self responsibility. it ain’t rocket science.
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November 10, 2013 9:27am
Left Right and Centre

I think it’s all rubbish.

I can believe it if she was one of the five-minute-training-sweet-as mouth breathers. Ok – that’s a bit harsh !!
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November 10, 2013 9:28am
Redbaiter

Kowtow- nobody is reading GD anymore.

These Prog fuckwits have made it completely uninteresting for most.

Just another left wing echo chamber.

It doesn’t matter.
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November 10, 2013 9:31am
Griff

unfortunately its not a small number
my partner ‘school counciler ‘
says it is a common attatude among young that a chick passed out is fair game for sex.
We need the law to make an example of these boys

rape is not ok
stuperfying woman for sex is rape
having sex with minors is rape

pre meditated rape should result in lengthy prison time.
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November 10, 2013 9:35am
Judith

@ Northland Wahine (523) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 9:27 am

Exactly – I totally agree, parents do need to do that for both males and females which is why I said parents should be teaching their sons that you do not get females drunk to have sex with them, and if you do have sex with them, you do not blab about it and degrade them to your friends and especially all over social media. And the reverse side, you teach your daughters to behave appropriately and tell them not to ‘tease’ young men sexually etc, and I believe the majority of parents do that. And I even believe that many of the parents in this issue have probably also done that – but there will always be examples of young people that ‘know better’ and in this case appear to be egotistical brats.

That is why I say we need a response in law to prevent those that simply will not listen from doing what this lot have done. It is not alright to denigrate anyone in the manner they did on social media – it is bullying and as we all know, that bullying culture has contributed to our very high suicide stats. Teenagers will not moderate themselves, so we need to do it for them.
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November 10, 2013 9:35am
Left Right and Centre

There’s a very old saying around these parts… how does it go again? Ah – that’s right – you can’t rape someone that’s not at the party.

Aren’t I just stating a fact ? Isn’t that factual ? That’s not talking out of your arse – that’s an indisputable frickin fact, isn’t it? I’m just saying – I’m just speaking factually here…. things that must logically be true – if you’re not at the party, you’re chances of drinking at the party until you’re fucked – literally in this case – are reduced by quite a considerable percentage. Hey – it’s a fact !! Like – the earth orbits the sun, yeah ?
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November 10, 2013 9:38am
Judith

@ Left Right and Centre (1,889) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 9:38 am

So you are arguing that young females shouldn’t be allowed to socialise or go to parties, but young men should be allowed to??

What about we make it, young females are allowed to party, but young men aren’t? Would that be okay?
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November 10, 2013 9:40am
Griff

far more read gd than read truly pooh redtard
because your conservative blog is pathetic
that’s why you come here redtard
because no one reads your conservonutter dribble on truepooh
the readership of kiwiiblog a progsewer is many times that of your pointless little piece of cyber space redtarded one.
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November 10, 2013 9:47am
Left Right and Centre

So you are arguing that young females shouldn’t be allowed to socialise or go to parties, but young men should be allowed to??

Right – we’ve just had a Sat night – what percentage of 13 / 14 year olds in NZ boys or girls were out at parties staying out as late as they want and how many of those were also drinking alcohol and then drinking to intoxication ?

I’ll do a fucking Judith line of reasoning… hahahahahaha…… so you think all 14 year old girls should be free to go to parties and get drunk and stay out as long as they want ?
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November 10, 2013 9:49am
eszett

Redbaiter (6,129) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 9:31 am
Kowtow- nobody is reading GD anymore.

Really? Nobody? Not even you?
Are you sure you are not mistaking it with that obscure site called trueblueysomethingortheother? 🙂
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November 10, 2013 9:50am
Left Right and Centre

The shame – I typed ‘you’re’ instead of ‘your’ – I’m bitchslapping myself with the keyboard…. oh no, I’m one of those people…. oh please – oh – the humanity !!

EDIT: The keyboard thing didn’t work; I just liked it.
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November 10, 2013 9:51am
kowtow

“We need a law to make an example of these guys.”

All the law in the world won’t fix what has become a morally bankrupt society.And with it financial bankruptcy .

That’s what we’re witnessing. Politicians,activists and intellectuals who were so quick to dismantle and dismiss traditional morality and culture ,now wring their hands and scramble to avoid the massive costs that their “progressivism” is piling onto the diminishing number of taxpayers ,left to pay for the mess they created.

“Progress” ain’t it great.
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November 10, 2013 9:54am
Reid

morals are not for Christians only, nor should it be a gender issue. it’s about teaching all our kids self responsibility. it ain’t rocket science.

Yes NW but as I’ve been saying on here since this story broke, the attitudes these boys and girls have is common as that Stuff article says – girls as young as 12-13 commonly have sex, these days, they commonly drink alcohol and when you mix those attitudes into immature minds, what pray tell do adults expect to happen?

The outrage expressed over this is by adults who haven’t yet looked around them to see what social influences surround our young and that is what has caused this and guess whose been responsible for those? But it’s easier to pretend this is an aberration rather than the norm, because that passes over the responsibility.

I’m not surprised people like PG can’t see that but I am surprised you can’t NW…
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November 10, 2013 9:57am
Left Right and Centre

How about starting with the mess you create with your spacebar ?
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November 10, 2013 9:58am
kowtow

Red

I take your point.It’s particularly the case in the evening when the Glee Club get going.
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November 10, 2013 10:03am
Griff

traditional morals like fucking alterboys up the arse and being legally allowed to rape your wife
fuck of kowtow your church is responsible for generations of pain and sufferig from when it had moral power.
fortunately we now know the truth about the catholic church and arse raping little boys.
your church has no morals
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November 10, 2013 10:06am
Azeraph

Reid (14,302) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 9:57 am

It’s only in countries that call themselves “Western” and predominantly english speaking (There is only 5 true english speakinfg countries, the rest adopted it) that don’t have nudity in their media. Well, it’s just an assertion to lead to a point i would like to make about the French and their mainstream movies. They seem to have a lot of nude women artfully portrayed. In todays America and here we have what?
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November 10, 2013 10:07am
Left Right and Centre

I’m totally blown away by all of the highly sophisticated understanding of psychology, human nature and social demographic group behaviour demonstrated on GD this morning. In no way do I feel like I’m sitting on a mat listening to a fucking kindy teacher give crudely over-simplified explanations on a range of troubling social issues.
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November 10, 2013 10:11am
Judith

@ LRC

I don’t think any 14 year old should be going out and getting drunk, regardless of their sex. Apart from the fact they are not mature enough to handle it, it is also illegal unless it is their parents who are supplying them with alcohol.

It is also within legislation that parents are responsible for their children at that age – and therefore there are questions regarding supervision for both males and females.

However, I have been a teenager myself in West Auckland, and my parents were very strict, but stupid enough to build a house with an exist door through the toilet and laundry. One only had to wait for the parents to start snoring in order to ‘escape’ into the night. So being the parent of teenagers is not an easy job, and finding the balance can be very difficult.

@ Reid

Yes you are right, the moral fibre of society has dropped to unbelievable standards. When I was young anyone that had to use alcohol or anything like that to have sex, was considered a weirdo. We are all responsible – not just the parents – we scream disgust at the behaviour of people who rape old ladies, but we frequently support jokes and denigration of old people, simply because they have aged. We talk about young women in derogatory ways, and then wonder why young men don’t think enough of them to treat them with respect.

For 20 years we have allowed a young yellow brat on our TV screens every night – a deplorable bad mannered disrespectful idiot – and complain when our children speak and treat others the same. We screen images of people like Mily Syrus – who we know has a fan base of 10-14 year olds, doing things like swinging naked from a steel ball, and ‘twerking’ – a very sexual movement – and wonder why our young girls act in the same way. We fail to point out to our daughters what the message such behaviour gives to young men, but then on the reverse side, we fail to tell our young men that when young women dress like that, and dance like that, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are wanting sex.

Then there is the general lack of respect displayed on our screens and in media such as this. Is it not surprising that some see these messages as the right to do whatever they like? no it’s not.

But we have all encouraged this – we have all allowed the mixed messages, we have all known for sometime since people like Bart Simpson first appeared on our screens what would happen – but we’ve moved on because it was ‘funny’ – well it’s not quite so funny now – is it? But that won’t stop it because treating your fellow ‘man’ as a piece of dirt is now the acceptable way – its hilarious apparently – the new norm is to denigrate someone – being nice is the weird thing to do.
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November 10, 2013 10:18am
Chuck Bird

@Yvette

“what we want is an example of change of kind – a car that by accidental mutation, but survival of the fittest, evolved into a plane.”

http://www.fly-skyrunner.com/#top
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November 10, 2013 10:18am
Reid

Azeraph it’s in all countries in which feminism and political correctness has taken hold, which includes we five plus the entire EU. Those two dynamics are the driving forces, all the while wrapped up in the human wights meme. And BTW, “feminism” includes all the gay rights movements as well as the women’s rights movements.

Edit: Well said Judith, but don’t expect people will wake up. Very few understand social engineering and its various techniques, but it’s all around us, 24/7/365 and the only thing that stops it is when people wake up to it, and that won’t happen.
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November 10, 2013 10:19am
Kiwi Dave

Yvette @9.18

Google ‘whales ungulates’.

Read “Why Evolution is True” by Jerry Coyne or “Your Inner Fish” by Neil Shubin, both available in the Auckland library system.
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November 10, 2013 10:22am
Left Right and Centre

Did you have a lot of problems with your kids Jude ? Three sons did you say ? Did they sneak out to parties at 13 / 14 ? Did they get shit-faced ?
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November 10, 2013 10:31am
Harriet

LRC#

“…..Ah – that’s right – you can’t rape someone that’s not at the party….”

You nailed that in one! [pun intended 😎 ]

You are right – they’re 13lyd GIRLS!

Of course their parents didn’t know what they were doing…..”Dad…we’re going to a party to drink with 16/17yld boys”…..

That excuse doesn’t cut it with me.

The boys are bad……..the girls are bloody foolish…..and the parents fucken useless!

Girls and boys at that age should be either at home, their friends homes, or at the likes of the pictures. And parents should know exactly how and when they’re coming home.
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November 10, 2013 10:37am
Chuck Bird

I am not happy about my taxes paying for medical treatment for illness caused by smokers but I do not say we should let them die because of their poor decisions.

I am not happy about my taxes paying for medical treatment for illness caused by homosexual’s lifestyle but I do not say we should let them die because of their poor decisions.

I am not happy about my taxes paying taxes for a rape victim who has greatly contributed to her own situation but I do not say the perpetrator should not be punished severely.

If old ladies are being raped by intruders gain access by an unlocked door suggesting to women particularly where it is happening to make sure their doors are looked and do not open them to strangers is not blaming the victim.

The first Christmas I spent in NZ when I was 23 I got rolling drunk and woke up on a bench at a railway station minus all my Christmas pay. I did not go to the police. If I did I would expect they would tell me that I was largely to blame for my predicament.

I say the same to these females who say woman should be able to go to the pub get pissed and get picked up in the pub by some guy maybe just as drunk and want cry about a situation they put themselves in.
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November 10, 2013 10:38am
Judith

@ Left Right and Centre (1,894) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 10:31 am

I have three sons and two daughters.
No, my sons didn’t sneak out to parties at 13 and 14 years of age. Neither did my daughters – I worked out early that having dogs that barked at anyone in the dark, was a great way of keeping teenagers in check.

I also allowed my children to hold parties, supervised, and met with their friends parents to ensure their group of friends met with the same rules whenever they socialised.

My sons did get ‘shit faced’, still do – but I have witnessed them sorting their friends out if they see behaviour that is unacceptable. My sons have always been popular with females because they are regarded as ‘gentlemen’, happy to ‘sort another male out’, if they are rough with women. I’m proud of that, they are very protective towards their sisters, and other females, as the physically stronger sex, they see that as their role. It has made them popular, they’ve taken many an intoxicated girl home to her parents to ensure she was safe. The oldest two are a couple of ‘lads’ – rough and ready, rugby loving, beer drinking kiwi males – but they are evidence that respect is possible, even for young people if they are given the example to follow.

I hope the youngest, only 18 will be the same – so far so good.
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November 10, 2013 10:52am
Left Right and Centre

judie – tell me that you’re not so retarded that you set up not one but three alter-ego accounts on the Hooten thread….
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November 10, 2013 10:52am
Northland Wahine

Reid, I concur. It isn’t uncommon for very young teen girls to being having sex. And I’m also sure that they’re not all having sex with each other. This isn’t man bashing. It’s about getting back to treating kids like kids. And expecting them to act like kids. And not miniature versions of the crap they see on tv…

Crap like big brother, that returns to our screens in the near future. My 14 year old niece accepts it won’t be something that will be viewed in our home. Just as jersey shore, and other trash are banned. If there are those who believe rape culture rampant in nz, ask themselves why? Our kids are bombarded with this crap. And it’s our responsibility to say to our kids… No. No you can’t watch that, no, you’re not going out dressed like that, no, you’re not going out to that party, no, it’s not ok for you to drink, no you may not listen to that crap in my car…because yes, I love and care what happens to you…
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November 10, 2013 10:53am
Left Right and Centre

Did they get drunk at 13 / 14 Jude ?
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November 10, 2013 10:55am
F E Smith

On a different topic, I bet the Lundy prosecutors are glad that the NZ courts are not as tough on prosecutors as the US courts are starting to be. Indeed, in NZ the Crown will even step in to protect prosecutors who have been found by a judge to have a criminal case to answer.

Sending a prosecutor to prison, even if only for 10 days, and striking him off the roll, and all for not giving the defence the disclosure that he was obliged to provide. Normally the prosecutor would have escaped any penalty as proving that they haven’t met their obligations is really difficult. The problem in this case is that the withheld evidence ended up exonerating the defendant.

There is a small parallel with Lundy, as had the information about the first scientists view of the ‘brain matter’ evidence been disclosed then a very large part of the Crown’s case would have been undermined.

That is not to say that Lundy is innocent. Merely to say that the non-disclosure would have had a very large impact on the case. And to think that Cameron Mander had the temerity to argue to the PC that there would have been no impact on the defence case! How on earth did he ever manage to become a Deputy Solicitor-General???
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November 10, 2013 10:56am
Left Right and Centre

So you did ten years of what paid work while looking after a family of six or seven ?
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November 10, 2013 10:57am
Harriet

“…..I say the same to these females who say woman should be able to go to the pub get pissed and get picked up in the pub by some guy maybe just as drunk and want cry about a situation they put themselves in….”

Everything you said in that post was very well put Chuck.

Women can now dress how they like anywhere they like and men can’t be blamed for the mixed messages that women send out.

All that this does is put women in FULL control of all social behaviour.

There is a time and a place for everything. Something that feminism will not promote. Instead they promote the idea that it is appropriate if a women thinks it is. But that’s rubbish, as women can not dress how they like anywhere they like as the local shopping mall is not a workplace, and the workplace is not a pizza resturant.
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November 10, 2013 11:01am
Dennis Horne

If it wasn’t for “rape” Homo sapiens probably wouldn’t be walking the Earth. Think about that for a minute. Or until the penny drops.

Nobody here condones men physically forcing themselves on women. Note I don’t use the word “rape” because “rape” includes “buyers regret” now.

As for this notion that “No” always means no, men know that “No” often means “Try harder”. Flowers and dinner. Soft music. A drink or two.

Men seduce women. Only vulgar men and homosexuals say, “Hey, can I fuck you?”
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November 10, 2013 11:01am
Judith

@ chuck

So an old lady, who very possibly has forgotten to lock her door deserves what she gets?

A young woman who attends a party ‘deserves what she gets’?

What about the person that enters a house that isn’t theirs? That opens that unlocked door?
What about the young man that keeps giving the young woman alcohol?

According to your theory they are not responsible in any way – we should all live our lives wrapped in bubble wrap – making sure we don’t fall foul of sickos.

Perhaps everyone should remove their money from the bank, after all, banks get robbed – if it did, then its our fault for having our money in there.

Why bother with insurance, if our house burns down, its our fault for having a house?

If a two year old wanders on to the road, its their fault for being on the road, or is it the councils fault for building the road? I’m not sure on that one.

Your rationale is flawed, but highly consistent with a blame the victim mentality.
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November 10, 2013 11:02am
Judith

@ Left Right and Centre (1,898) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 10:52 am

You can check with DPF, I have only one active account. I type fast enough and are opinionated enough to present my own argument, I don’t need someone or another false account to argue the point LRC – I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
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November 10, 2013 11:07am
Dennis Horne

@F E Smith. Professor Palmer of Auckland University was a prosecutor for 30 years. He wrote a letter to the Herald singing the praises of the Binnie Dunce Report.

I hope if I am before the courts I have a fool for a prosecutor and an oleaginous manipulating creep for a barrister. I have one in mind. (No, FES, it’s not you – take a bow.)
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November 10, 2013 11:10am
Judith

@ LRC

My children were allowed to share a shandy with their dad when we considered them old enough. When the eldest, now 35 year of age, showed an interest in trying hard stuff at 14 years of age, he was presented with a bottle of whiskey and told to go to it. He did – he still can’t stand the taste of the stuff. He learned the same way with smoking. When he tried it, we gave him a packet of cigars and invited him to do his best. He did, and he never took up smoking.

We believed in showing how kids how to drink responsibly, rather than constantly saying no no you must not, knowing that if we didn’t they would just sneak behind our backs. Better to teach them to handle it, than suffer the negative consequences.
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November 10, 2013 11:11am
Left Right and Centre

I’m highly suspicious judie – because the times that you’re on and commenting coincide nicely with when the fake accounts make comments. And it correlates, which no doesn’t prove causation, nicely with a comment I made mentioning you followed by these three new accounts springing up, claiming to all funnily enough be female. If not you – I wonder who my new devoted fan club is ?

EDIT: You’re old enough to be my mother judie. I’m just going to call you mammy.
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November 10, 2013 11:14am
Judith

@ Left Right and Centre (1,898) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 10:57 am

I am not quite sure if that comment was meant for me or not.
I have five kids. I was a stay at home Mum for most of their childhood, although took the opportunity to gain two degrees. When the youngest was five we swapped roles and I worked, and completed my academic education. I now work mostly from home, although have times when I must be present elsewhere. As I said my baby is 18 years of age, my oldest four all over 26.
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November 10, 2013 11:20am
Nostalgia-NZ

FE Smith 10.56, there hasn’t been one major NZ MOJ overturned that didn’t include with held evidence, if witnesses knew that admitting lying to help Juries ‘understand’ the evidence, or prosecutors with holding evidence material to the defence would lead to prison the landscape would change. The Bench turns a blind eye to it, and the prosecuting authorities do nothing.
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November 10, 2013 11:23am
Dennis Horne

@Judith. Do you ever put the jigsaw together, Judith, and see the big picture, or do you just catch a glimpse now and again and make a wild guess?

Maybe you should have adopted thousands and thousands of these wayward children. We could have made you a saint.
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November 10, 2013 11:23am
Left Right and Centre

Two degrees – you’re kidding. So you eat breakfast then.
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November 10, 2013 11:24am
Judith

@ Left Right and Centre (1,899) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 11:14 am

I haven’t seen the posts your referring to, but they are honestly not me. I don’t shy from an argument LRC and I certainly don’t need support, although it is always appreciated.

I’m in my mid 50’s. I married at 20. You can call me whatever you like – just as threats don’t intimidate me, names don’t either. That is probably my biggest fault – I am not easily intimidated, in fact I am never intimidated, which enabled me to work with the some of this countries worst offenders – my husband hates it – I’ve been known to step between two warring gang members to ‘sort them out’ (verbally). As my husband says, “you do realise that the day someone calls your bluff I’m going to have to step in”! He’s such a gentleman, he’s never been required to (yet).
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November 10, 2013 11:27am
Northland Wahine

Judith, my grandmother did the same with a number of my cousins. I can remember the green shading of their faces before the imminent hurling. Some never took up smoking or drinking. Others are now alcoholics and more than a couple have met with early deaths due to cancer and heart disease.

It’s not a one fits all cure…

It starts at a young age… Teach our kids that no means no, so they too learn to say no when it’s time for them.
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November 10, 2013 11:27am
kowtow

Aw diddums,bigot bruv’s Sunday ruined.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/9383671/Live-updates-All-Blacks-vs-France-in-Paris
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November 10, 2013 11:36am
F E Smith

if witnesses knew that admitting lying to help Juries ‘understand’ the evidence, or prosecutors withholding evidence material from the defence would lead to prison the landscape would change.

Unfortunately, as you note Nostalgia, both of these can be done with relative impunity in NZ. So many cases are delayed becaus of disclosure issues caused by the investigating officers, but for some reason the media, government, and therefore the public, all blame the defence lawyers, who have no control over the matter.
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November 10, 2013 11:37am
mandk

Don’t you love those hand made “No drilling for deep sea oil” signs you see outside scabby student houses in places like Mt Vic and Newtown in Wellington?.

Made using petrochemicals, of course.
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November 10, 2013 11:39am
Judith

@ Left Right and Centre (1,900) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 11:24 am

Education is the key to the world LRC – or rather I should say ‘knowledge’ is. I love learning. When I was a little girl (a long long long time ago) my grandfather used to ask me every day, ‘what have you learned today’. He taught me much about the world in the short part of my life I shared with him. The one thing he did teach me was to never shrink from adversity if I believe I was right, but to never believe I was right until I’d put myself ‘in the shoes of the other first’ – and the golden rule – to always ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you’.

The wisdom of experience, of the old, is something we should appreciate, not mock. Most of them know what they are talking about (BTW I don’t consider myself ‘old’ yet).
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November 10, 2013 11:40am
Left Right and Centre

I’ve got to know – what are the two degrees in ? I’ve only got one commerce degree.
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November 10, 2013 11:41am
Judith

@ Northland Wahine (525) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 11:27 am

That is so true. It’s a balancing act, being a parent – not one way fits all – but you have to try, don’t you?
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November 10, 2013 11:42am
big bruv

Chuck

“I am not happy about my taxes paying for medical treatment for illness caused by smokers”

If that were true then I would have sympathy with you. However, the fact is that smokers pay far more tax toward the health system than you do. If the health dollar were apportioned out then smokers would and should receive the best health care available as they subsidise the non smokers.
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November 10, 2013 11:42am
Left Right and Centre

Is that why you had the babies first, because education is more important ?
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November 10, 2013 11:43am
Judith

@ Left Right and Centre (1,901) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 11:41 am

LOL, what and give you a chance to ‘mock me’? One is in business studies and the other in one of the social sciences.
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November 10, 2013 11:44am
Ryan Sproull

If it wasn’t for “rape” Homo sapiens probably wouldn’t be walking the Earth. Think about that for a minute. Or until the penny drops.

Dennis, you’re going to have to explain that one for me.

Nobody here condones men physically forcing themselves on women. Note I don’t use the word “rape” because “rape” includes “buyers regret” now.

No, it doesn’t.

As for this notion that “No” always means no, men know that “No” often means “Try harder”. Flowers and dinner. Soft music. A drink or two.

I think the most generous reading of this would be to suggest that you could have phrased that better as ‘”no” doesn’t always mean “never”‘, rather than ‘”no” often means “try harder”‘, which implies that flowers, dinner, soft music and a drink or two are sort of… tasks in a game that earn points that unlock the sex level? Or something.

But if we’re talking about the kind of “no means no” situation where ignoring “no” results in non-consensual sex, I don’t think “try playing her some Barry White” is the first piece of advice we want to be giving young men. A better start might be, “Examine what choices you made that led to you trying to do something unwanted to another human being.”
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November 10, 2013 11:45am
Harriet

Dennis Horne @ 11:01

That’s so un pc of you Dennis. But fucken funny!
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November 10, 2013 11:47am
Judith

@ Left Right and Centre (1,902) Says:
November 10th, 2013 at 11:43 am

Not at all. One does not exclude the other. Being a mother does not limit your ability to learn or receive an education. It might make it a bit harder, but there is no greater example you can give to your children than showing them that you can achieve despite the limitations presented to you.
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November 10, 2013 11:47am
kowtow

mandk

In Dunedin (where the City Council is against drilling) I’ve seen a couple of cars with the bumper sticker as follows

If you’re against deep sea drilling
get out of your car and walk.

brilliant.
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November 10, 2013 11:48am
big bruv

Kowtow.

Your comment just shows how sad you really are.

I pity you in some way, obviously you are one of the sad bastards who identify with the NZ rugby team, should they lose a game of rugby no doubt you fall into the depths of depression.

Me, I could not care less. My life is far broader than that, I do not care if a team dressed in black wins or loses.

You should try it, you should also open your eyes to the lies and bullshit that our media spout about the NZ rugby team, the fact is Kowtow that outside of NZ nobody knows who they are.
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November 10, 2013 11:49am
Left Right and Centre

I knew the answer before I asked the question judie. I did an accounting degree – one of the easier commerce degrees. And easier degrees of any faculty. At Victoria.
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November 10, 2013 11:50am

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