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October 27, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 27 October 2013

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iMP

Is China redefining tomorrow, as America wanes? Paradigm shifts in political governance. Interesting.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/10/26/is-china-challenging-western-democratic-paradigms-christian-ideas-on-govt-part-1/
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October 27, 2013 8:04am
Manolo

Iran continues to enrich uranium to 20%.
What’s next? http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4445638,00.html
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October 27, 2013 8:23am
Paulus

Message to Len Brown.

FFS Len do something decent probably for the first time in your life – you have not earned the right to continue as Mayor of Auckland.

RESIGN and get you gone – you have no dignity left and there will be asides and sniggers at your every move. Your Councillors will slow down your every move whether personal or public.

You have humiliated your wife and children, for which forgiveness as good Christians, even will be very difficult.

Your marriage is destroyed as you will never be trusted by them again, despite the office PR flurry from one of your lovely children.

Go Now without blaming everybody else – this is now counter productive, and will only exacerbate your demise if you and your media supporters persist with this line.
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October 27, 2013 8:29am
Azeraph

Ah all the media will now turn back to 2minute noodles.
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October 27, 2013 8:52am
flipper

Paulus…

Agree.

As each day goes by it is like the death by a thousand cuts…… and all the spin just keeps the issues bubbling away.

Palino is not Mayor… Wewegne is not Mayor, Whale is not Mayor (but he would be fun to watch as he sets out to emasculate the ACC bureaucracy), Cook is not mayor, John Slater is in retirement, Brewer is ready, but so far undeclared and un-crowned, and John Banks has other matters keeping him occupied.. Dotcom,,. no matter how hard done by he was at his extradition arrest , will be extradited, so he will never be Mayor.

While Len the Philanderer is Auckland’s Mayor, he will always be open to the challenge : “Who have you screwed today, Len” — until he resigns.

Good bye, Len !
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October 27, 2013 8:58am
Dennis Horne

Justly or unjustly, Brown has been judged and found wanton.
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October 27, 2013 9:10am
Azeraph

What’s wrong with Dotcom? He paid fair and square for his ticket and gave the city a bloody good gift for a fireworks show, he also brought to Coatsville an entire new better broadband system. It’s more than what those Chinese kids have done for the country who get in for next to nothing.
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October 27, 2013 9:25am
lilman

Brown is a pathetic fool.
Was discussing him with a leading banker and accountant from large New Zealand firm,he could only shake his head and smirk at Brown.
As he said”How that man operates in business and the region is now fatally flawed ,hes compromised”
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October 27, 2013 9:37am
Kea

Iran continues to enrich uranium to 20%.

I guess they have no choice as nuclear armed Israel has been threatening war for so long and the Israeli proxy [the USA] sponsored Iraq to attack them with extensive use of chemical weapons.

Given continued US aggression in the region [ on behalf of Israel] they need to do something.
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October 27, 2013 9:50am
iMP

A rare video of the New Zealand politic in action. Ewe should see this.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/the-new-zealand-politic/
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October 27, 2013 10:06am
Kea

Islam is not a natural enemy of the USA. The real reason global security in under threat is the existence of Israel and US support for Israel. The whole war on terror bullshit is nothing more than the US killing and invading people unsympathetic to Israel.

Instead of murdering hundreds of thousands of people in numerous countries, it would be far better to eliminate the real problem. The parasite nation of Israel, established on the basis of religious fables and supported like a blood sucking tick by trillions of US dollars, while people in the US struggle. It is a disgraceful situation. Israel should be left to stand on its own feet.
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October 27, 2013 10:15am
Pauleastbay

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11146902

The job offers should be flooding in, 26 years on the public tit doing fuck all – he’s what you’d want in your business ,surely?
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October 27, 2013 10:30am
Bad__Cat

Kea, you are sadly an example of my observation that Anti-semitism is not wholly the domain of the stupid, ignorant and barbaric.
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October 27, 2013 10:31am
Bad__Cat

“Islam is not a natural enemy of the USA. ”

Neither were the Nazis nor the Japanese. BTW, if any group of people kept screaming “Death to the New Zealander” I would consider them, if not enemies, then at least someone to keep away from.
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October 27, 2013 10:38am
Komata

Kea:

Re: ‘Given continued US aggression in the region [ on behalf of Israel] they need to do something’

Might I politely suggest that you are actually incorrect. The avowed intention of ALL Islam is the complete inihalation of Jews, Christians and all other ‘unbelievers’. By direct inference (and by statements frequently made by the various religious and political leaders of Israel’s Islamic neighbours ) the state od Israel is to be eliminated, by all and any means that are deemed ‘suitable’ for the purpose. As already noted, such an action is totally in acordance with the Koran. On this basis, Israel has little choice but to ensure that it protects itself, again by any means available. It has no other option available to it, having learnt by bitter experience that so-called ‘allies’ (especially Britain, France, the USA and Germany) cannot be depended-upon in times of crises, with America being particularly ‘untrustworthy’ when push comes to shove.

Over the decades, the American’s have repeatedly proven to their so-called ‘Allies’ that they cannot be tusted when it really matters, with the present adminitration being especially so, and to suggest that their ‘continued aggression’ in the region is on behalf of Israel is disingenuous and and patently incorrect. Ultimately America is now only interested in America and any action that the White House takes is only taken if it will generate votes at ‘home’; and keep Obama in power. All other things are irrelevant. In its actions, the US can, at-best be desctribed as being analagous to a willful teenager, full of good intentions, but, ultimatly, totally self-centred and self-absorbed. Ultimately, for the USA, ‘Its all about me’.

Finally, on a personal level, (and by way of analogy), the question has to be asked:

What steps would YOU as a family-man take to protect you and yours if you were surrounded on all sides by implaccable enemies dedicated, for their own reasons, to your destruction (despite the fact that you actually, legally, owned your little bit of land), with the nearest policeman was several-days journey away? Knowing the situation, would you just give up and accept anihalation and the ruin and destruction of absolutely everything you held dear, or would you take whatever action you deemed necessary to protect what you owned?

I, and no doubt others, will also be interested in your answer….
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October 27, 2013 10:39am
Kea

Bad__Cat , but you do not really mean that. Daily we are treated to cries for the mass murder and destruction of other semitic people and you say nothing. Daily we hear attacks on people based along religious lines and you say nothing. Daily we hear for the destruction and annihilation of Middle Eastern countries and you say nothing.

You seem to think being “anti-semitic” is some how worse than being anti Arab or anti some other group. It is not and jews are not a protected species worthy of special consideration.
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October 27, 2013 10:41am
Kea

Komata, I agree that elements of Islam have become increasingly radical, but in recent times the rallying point has been the creation of a Jewish state.

What steps would YOU as a family-man take to protect you and yours if you were surrounded on all sides by implaccable enemies dedicated, for their own reasons, to your destruction (despite the fact that you actually, legally, owned your little bit of land)

Firstly I will overlook all the illegal occupations. Illegal by rulings from international bodies. And before you poo poo those rulings, remember it was meddling international bodies that created Israel. It was not a bunch of brave Jews battling nasty Arabs. It was a bunch of rich influential European Jews applying political and financial incentives in the West.

Back to your question. I would do just what the modern Israelis are doing. I genuinely feel for them as they did not create this terrible mess.
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October 27, 2013 10:49am
Pauleastbay

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10406971/Ministers-TV-licence-fee-threat.html

perhaps Radio NZ should take notice – get rid of the bias or lose the NZ On Air Funding
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October 27, 2013 10:50am
Don the Kiwi

Kea.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I would defend that right.
But you are again starting to sound like the “Resident Muslim” – constantly berating Israel.
Just as one instance, a few years ago, Israel moved out of Gaza and handed it back to the Palestinians on the basis that they would cease offensive attacks against Israel.
Now, how many katushkin rockets have since been fired from Gaza into Israeli towns? In the thousands, and counting.

Wake up to yourself.
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October 27, 2013 10:55am
iMP

There is only one reason Iran is opening dialogue with America and the West over nuclear capability. DELAY. So it can enrich to 20% in the meantime, arm a weapon, and attack Israel, their political dream – annihilation. They only need one dirty bomb. Have we learned nothing?

As a once Turkish Ambassador to NZ once said on departing, “If you disarm the Palestinians you’ll have peace, if you disarm Isreal, you’ll have genocide.” An insightful man.
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October 27, 2013 11:02am
srylands

“Kea: The parasite nation of Israel, established on the basis of religious fables and supported like a blood sucking tick by trillions of US dollars, while people in the US struggle. ”

Kea you are a fool. Probably a socialist fool. Bilateral aid to Israel by the USA is about 1.5% of Israel’s GDP. Have you been to Israel? I am guessing no. Probably stuck in Hamilton. Israel is the only democracy in the region, surrounded by religious dictatorships. Israel is not perfect but it deserves our support.

So get off your arse in your Housing NZ flat, get a job and go visit Israel. Follow it up with a visit to Iran and Syria. Then come back and let us know how you got on.
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October 27, 2013 11:08am
Kea

Don the Kiwi, you are full of shit and a liar. The precious jews are not the ones being attacked and berated daily on KB. What motivates your double standards ? Is it religious [jewish] fables that they are “special gods favourites” ? You are probably a decent and honest person on most topics, but suddenly morph into a one eyed bullshit artist when the jews are mentioned.

I have previously stated that of all the Middle Eastern cults, Islam is currenly my least favourite and Judaism by most favourite. I am not anti your precious jews, I am anti double standards and religious biggotry. As an atheist I think they are all wrong.

Elements of Islam have not covered themselves in glory in recent times. Although I think establishing Israel as a country was a mistake, I do not agree with raining rockets on the place as a solution.
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October 27, 2013 11:14am
Kea

srylands, not sure what you are trying to say. Is it that Israel is a nice place with nice people ? If so, I agree.

Syria was pretty good too, until US backed Islamic Jihadists fucked it up, because Israel wanted the Syrian military destroyed. Same as in all the other “Arab Spring” countries.

Israel does not “deserve” our support. It is none of our business. There are numerous countries in the same position as Israel and you would not even know about them. Why does this one country attract so much attention ? It is because dimwits, like you, suck up every bit of propaganda and regurgitate it as fact.
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October 27, 2013 11:23am
iMP

If it was a mistake to establish israel, Kea, where would we have housed the Jews following the Holocaust? Didn’t Europe at least owe them somewhere of their own, to at least self-determine and protect themselves, after that most heinous historical abomination of all time, when all the nations of the world catastrophically failed them (except perhaps for America and the Danes)?
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October 27, 2013 11:24am
Kea

srylands, Oh and why do you think bankrupt and broke Americans should be giving billions to the rich nation of Israel every year ?

Along with the Trillions spent on fighting proxy wars for Israel, because they are both cowards and parasites.
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October 27, 2013 11:26am
lilman

Kea, when are you going tell the truth ?

Cant find anyone who’s as distorted as you and believes he’s impartial.
Know you enemy,don’t become your enemy.
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October 27, 2013 11:28am
Kea

“If it was a mistake to establish israel, Kea, where would we have housed the Jews following the Holocaust?”

Here we go with the holocaust yarn. In a war where 60 to 70 million perished, some jews died.

They were born and bred Europeans and could have continued to live in their homes, in Europe. If you check you will find the Nazis actually lost that war.

Most of the people who died were Christians or atheists. Where is their homeland ?

after that most heinous historical abomination of all time

And that is the biggest lie of all time. It is not even close to being the worst thing. Far far worse has happened since, especially in Soviet times and in Asia. Learn some history idiot.
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October 27, 2013 11:32am
Kea

lilman, always happy to correct any factual errors in my posts. Vague personal attacks on me don’t count.
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October 27, 2013 11:33am
All_on_Red

“They were born and bred Europeans and could have continued to live in their homes, in Europe”

OMG. Wow, just wow.
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October 27, 2013 11:45am
mandk

All_on_Red,

Quite. It’s difficult to imagine a more disordered and delusional mind than the one that conjured up that little nugget.
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October 27, 2013 11:55am
lilman

Vague attacks on you Kea? The fact that you need to have other justify your position and correct other opinion shows me that Kea is a front for a person who strives for greatness but falls well short of even your self importance.
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October 27, 2013 12:00pm
edd

@ Kea

Israel is a capitalist democracy, just like the US and NZ. Iran is a backward religious dictatorship… That’s the whole reason for the conflict… It’s got nothing to do with the fact that Israel is predominately Jewish…

If Iran decide to participate in the Western Capitalist System they will get all sorts of assistance from the Western Powers, Israel included…
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October 27, 2013 12:04pm
Fletch

According to experts, Iran may be as little as one month away from building a nuclear weapon.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/10/24/iran-bomb-one-month-away/3181373/
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October 27, 2013 12:14pm
hj

Kea (8,518) Says:
October 27th, 2013 at 10:15 am

Islam is not a natural enemy of the USA. The real reason global security in under threat is the existence of Israel and US support for Israel. The whole war on terror bullshit is nothing more than the US killing and invading people unsympathetic to Israel.
…………………
If you read any books about travel in Arabia the “infidel” (like Charles Dharty) would be in under constant threat of death.
Islam was started by a demented chook and has taken hold like a weed in the human psychy.

Palestinians do have a case (short answer).
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October 27, 2013 12:20pm
PhilP

Reddy, I have to say I was impressed with Colon Craig’s interview on Q+A this morning, very moderate I thought and none of the Christian element that was evident during the lead up to the 2011 general election. Surprising what 3 years in politics can do, he’s matured.
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October 27, 2013 12:23pm
UglyTruth

According to experts

So now an expert is someone who thinks that the ability to produce nuclear weapons is the same as intent to produce them and use them?
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October 27, 2013 12:25pm
Dennis Horne

@Kea. Please correct me. The Americans give money to Israel because the money in America is controlled by Jews.

Both sides are wrong. Israel: Expanding territory is no longer fashionable. Arabs: The basis of their hostility is Islam.

Israel and the Palestinians should be able live in harmony, they did once in this area. Jews moved into Europe; now want to live back in the same area.
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October 27, 2013 12:27pm
Gulag1917

Islam is a problem regardless of Israel and the USA.
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October 27, 2013 12:34pm
Manolo

Islam is not a natural enemy of the USA.

The vile Islam is an enemy of civilisation.
A religion that belongs to barbaric, primitive times and has never abandoned its violent roots.
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October 27, 2013 12:37pm
hj

iMP (1,652) Says:
October 27th, 2013 at 11:24 am

If it was a mistake to establish israel, Kea, where would we have housed the Jews following the Holocaust?
………………….
Why not Europe and Palestine for Jews already living there?
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October 27, 2013 12:37pm
TheContrarian

Iran, signatory of the non-proliferation treaty and allowed, by international law, to pursue nuclear energy for peaceful purposes.
Threatened with bombing and economic sanctions for doing what is allowed.

Israel, non-signatory, possess nuclear weapons.
Receives billions in military hardware.

That is stunning hypocrisy.
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October 27, 2013 12:38pm
UglyTruth

A religion that belongs to barbaric, primitive times and has never abandoned its violent roots.

Because the belief that torturing an innocent man to death will save your soul is oh-so-civilized, right Manolo?
Hypocrisy much?
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October 27, 2013 12:47pm
srylands

“”Israel does not “deserve” our support. It is none of our business.””

Yes it does. And yes it is our business. It is certainly my business if Israel is threatened by Islamic terrorists. Supporting democracies against tyranny is a good use of our time and (within reason) our money. I would be happier about some of my taxes being used to provide military aid to Israel, than I am about my taxes being used to subsidise feckless single parents in Hamilton with four kids to four fathers.
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October 27, 2013 12:48pm
Colville

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/wellbeing/9327862/Fighting-fat-with-fat

Interesting article. Carbs are bad and fat is good 🙂
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October 27, 2013 12:51pm
Azeraph

I spoke to my Iman and he said They don’t follow what they profess, white blond wife and 3 daughters then on the side a chinese daughter. What if she got pregnant?

The whole area probably needs a good nuking, they’re no good to us if we can’t trade with them. I wouldn’t want the business and have to worry over product delivery. Let’s ask the ruskies to accidentally have 10 go off and poof! middle east problem solved. They can get away with it after a lifetime of being viewed as accident prone nana’s then we give the area to the African muslims.
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October 27, 2013 12:51pm
iMP

Found Q&A fascinating this morning. Josie Pagani on Binding Referenda, a policy shared by NZF and Conservatives.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/qa-nzfirst-conservatives-binding-referenda/
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October 27, 2013 1:03pm
iMP

Kea, on the Holocaust (October 27th, 2013 at 11:32 am) …”some Jews died.”

I’m just speechless.
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October 27, 2013 1:08pm
Manolo

Here we go with the holocaust yarn. In a war where 60 to 70 million perished, some jews died.

Utmost offensive attempt to rewrite history. Go away you ignorant man!
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October 27, 2013 1:14pm
Kea

“I’m just speechless.”

And brainless.

Far more atheist Russians died than Jews. And that pales in comparison to what happened in China. The holocaust is a footnote to WWII. Most of the wars victims were not jews. The holocaust is not unique, especially bad or evil. Sadly this sort of thing has happened many times. The fact some jews died in this particular atrocity does not make it any worse.

Around 70 million died and all you care about are a few members of a particular religion. What a wanker.
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October 27, 2013 1:15pm
Azeraph

iMP (1,654) Says:
October 27th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

Unfortunately he’s right when you view it from a planetary view as we are starting to see things in this era. What happened was last century and we are starting to quiet down, though it might not look like it we are. If a european country tried to embroil europe in another war it will fail as the rest will turn on it.

The rest of the planet see the wars as a european war, ask them.
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October 27, 2013 1:20pm
Kea

srylands, ok. But why is it only Israel that get our support ? Many other democratic countries under threat do not.

Manolo, so in your version of history more Jews died than Russians ?

FFS and you say I am re-writing history. Sorry this is not Europe and you can not have me thrown in jail for telling the truth. Nor can you use the fact some jews died in a global conflict in the 40’s as a way of avoiding criticism of Israel today.
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October 27, 2013 1:20pm
Kea

Overlooked Millions: Non-Jewish Victims of the Holocaust

Karen Silverstrim, MA Candidate
University of Central Arkansas

The genocidal policies of the Nazis resulted in the deaths of about as many Polish Gentiles as Polish Jews, thus making them co-victims in a Forgotten Holocaust. This Holocaust has been largely ignored because historians who have written on the subject of the Holocaust have chosen to interpret the tragedy in exclusivistic terms–namely, as the most tragic period in the history of the Jewish Diaspora. To them, the Holocaust was unique to the Jews, and they therefore have had little or nothing to say about the nine million Gentiles, including three million Poles, who also perished in the greatest tragedy the world has ever known. Little wonder that many people who experienced these events share the feeling of Nobel Laureate Czeslaw Milosz, who anxious when the meaning of the word Holocaust undergoes gradual modifications, so that the word begins to belong to the history of the Jews exclusively, as if among the victims there were not also millions of Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, and prisoners of other nationalities.

The Holocaust was more than a Jewish event. Records kept by the Germans prove they exterminated millions of Communists, Czechs, Greeks, Gypsies, homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, mentally and physically handicapped, Poles, resistance fighters, Russians, Serbs, Socialists, Spanish Republicans, trade unionists, Ukrainians, Yugoslavians, prisoners of war of many nations, and still others whose identity may never be recognized.(1) Their victims, according to one survivor of four different concentration camps, “were of some thirty nationalities, from Nepalese to Andorrans, and of a variety of racial and linguistic stocks ranging from Basques to Buriats and from Ladinos to Lapps”.(2)

http://www.ukemonde.com/holocaust/victims.html
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October 27, 2013 1:24pm
UglyTruth

It is certainly my business if Israel is threatened by Islamic terrorists. Supporting democracies against tyranny is a good use of our time and (within reason) our money.

Since when has the Zionist state of Israel been a democracy? It was established by political imperative, not by a popular mandate.
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October 27, 2013 1:27pm
wikiriwhis business

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNV3pvtmJ3M

Amazing revelations
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October 27, 2013 1:29pm
Azeraph

Wow and the Germans are going to save Europe a century on, What a crack up.
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October 27, 2013 1:30pm
Kea

Non-Jews persecuted and killed by the Nazis
Some scholars maintain that the definition of the Holocaust should also include the other victims persecuted and killed by the Nazis.[56][57] Estimates of the death toll of non-Jewish victims vary by millions, partly because the boundary between death by persecution and death by starvation and other means in a context of total war is unclear. Donald Niewyk maintains that the Holocaust can be defined in four ways: first, that it was the genocide of the Jews alone; second, that there were several parallel Holocausts, one for each of the several groups; third, the Holocaust would include Roma and the handicapped along with the Jews; fourth, it would include all racially motivated German crimes, such as the murder of Soviet prisoners of war, Polish and Soviet civilians, as well as political prisoners, religious dissenters, and homosexuals. Using this definition, the total number of Holocaust victims is between 11 million and 17 million people.[58] According to the College of Education of the University of South Florida Approximately 11 million people were killed because of Nazi genocidal policy.[59] R. J. Rummel estimated the death toll due to Nazi Democide at 20.9 million persons.[60] Timothy Snyder put the victims of the Nazis killed only as result of deliberate policies of mass murder such as executions, deliberate famine and in death camps at 10.4 million persons including 5.4 million Jews.[61] The German scholar Hellmuth Auerbach puts the death toll in the Hitler era at 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust and 7 million other victims of the Nazis.[62] Dieter Pohl puts the total number of victims of the Nazi era at between 12 and 14 million persons, including 5.6–5.7 million Jews.[63]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Non-Jews_persecuted_and_killed_by_the_Nazis

========================================================================

I have facts. What have you lot got aside from parroting propaganda and personal attacks ?
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October 27, 2013 1:30pm
Azeraph

You know Germany might just get it’s time at imperial power, poor France just had a short guy for a short time. When one thinks of Wellington and Napoleon squaring off at Waterloo? I would hang both of them for war crimes and the American govt and the Confederate leadership. The amount of men lost to the use of the musket is staggering.
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October 27, 2013 1:41pm
iMP

Keep digging Kea, keep digging. Zieg…
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October 27, 2013 1:48pm
Gulag1917

The obsession with Jews and Israel and people trust Moslems. Observed the behaviour of local Moslems lately? Witness the fickle behaviour of Sonny Bill Williams and his mate Mundine.
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October 27, 2013 1:49pm
Harriet

“……Kea (8,522) Says:
October 27th, 2013 at 11:26 am
srylands, Oh and why do you think bankrupt and broke Americans should be giving billions to the rich nation of Israel every year ?
Along with the Trillions spent on fighting proxy wars for Israel, because they are both cowards and parasites….”

NZ is a parasite nation upon America too – how much do we contribute to Western defense? Fuck all – Japan is another case, and Canada, UK, Australia -the list is fucken endless.
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October 27, 2013 1:52pm
Azeraph

We’re lucky, we only have 40,000 down here, we better keep it at that level.
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October 27, 2013 1:58pm
iMP

There is nothing that compares to the Holocaust. ~ Fidel Castro

Jews survived all the defeats, expulsions, persecutions and pogroms, the centuries in which they were regarded as a pariah people, even the Holocaust itself, because they never gave up the faith that one day they would be free to live as Jews without fear. ~ Jonathan Sacks

(Kea) Kaha.
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October 27, 2013 1:58pm
Kea

Harriet, actually I agree re defense. Although I am very critical of many contemporary actions taken by our traditional allies, I still think we should contribute commensurate with our small size. Japan is not a case and has restrictions imposed on its military.

Gulag1917, I am unsure of what your point is. I have never had any problem with the local Muslims and I am guessing you have not either, along with all the other anti muslim haters investing KB. Nor have I had any problems with Jewish folk. The last one I met we bonked each other !

People try to confuse, jews, race and Israel all together. This is done so Israelis can shame people into silence by bringing up the holocaust. The holocaust was against Europeans of a particular religion. It has nothing at all to do with Israel. And Israel has fuck all to do with Judaism.

These Jewish folk agree with me and I reckon they may know a bit more about the Jewish religion than the resident Muslim haters do : http://www.truetorahjews.org/
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October 27, 2013 2:04pm
Harriet

“….I have facts. What have you lot got aside from parroting propaganda and personal attacks ?…”

God….morals…..values……history….logic…..reasoning……

No one has said that Iran has the right to rule the ME – including nearly all the countries in the ME – and that is why we are standing firm against Iran – except for the usual weaklings – progs like yourself!

If you think Iran would stop after they have nuked Israel, or threatened to nuke it while they bomb it with missiles, then you are fucken crazy Kea.

We are not going to see ‘mass war’ erupt in the ME – simply because the West under progs like Obama is too afraid to stand up to Iran.

Iran has no right to rule anything beyond it’s borders, and it has time and again, supported terrorism, muslim extemists ect.

Putin is a hard bastard – and he’s going to show you limp wristed progs how to handle genocidal killers!
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October 27, 2013 2:08pm
Harriet

“….Japan is not a case and has restrictions imposed on its military….”

Japan is a case. Just because they have restrictions upon it’s millitary does not mean they should then pay less than what it costs to defend themselves. The US has willingly supported them, but it has still cost the US billions to do so.
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October 27, 2013 2:11pm
UglyTruth

Zionist-Nazi Cooperation

As soon as the Nazis assumed power in 1933, the Zionists gained a visibly protected political status. After the Reichstag fire, the Nazis crushed virtually all political opposition and closed 600 newspapers. But not the Zionists nor their newspaper which was hawked from every street corner, and saw its circulation multiply five times to 38,000. Zionism was “the only separate political philosophy sanctioned by the Third Reich.” (174)

The Zionist uniform was the only non-Nazi uniform allowed in Germany. Same with their flag. Hebrew was mandated in Jewish schools. Still German Jews wanted to stay in Germany “even as second class citizens, even reviled and persecuted.” (175) But the Zionists scorned the German Jews saying they deserved to be persecuted for wanting to assimilate.

http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=7667
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October 27, 2013 2:12pm
Kea

iMP, rather telling that you regard Castro as a credible source. Jews are not even close to being the most persecuted people and have tended to do rather well for themselves. How about showing some concern for the Roma. They have no country and were treated as bad, or worse, than the Jews by the Nazis ?

You are just being silly. Eastern Europeans suffered the most during the war, not Jews. It is hard to quantify suffering, but the scale dwarfs the holocaust. Also the events of the holocaust, though terrible, occur frequently.

I know you hate history so I picked something recent. Dam those facts a ?

http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.co.nz/2011/03/bosnian-genocide-pictures-are-worth.html

[note they are Muslims]
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October 27, 2013 2:13pm
UglyTruth

Iran has no right to rule anything beyond it’s borders, and it has time and again, supported terrorism, muslim extemists ect.

Really?

To paraphrase Edmonds: though the collusion with radical Islam had been going on for decades, it wasn’t until 1996 that a formal decision was made by NATO to abandon their previous secret relationship with neo-Fascists and arch-Nationalists and replace them with Islamists.
http://wideshut.co.uk/gladio-b-the-origins-of-natos-secret-islamic-terrorist-proxies/
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October 27, 2013 2:15pm
Azeraph

Bah! typical old fart angina arguments on a Sunday afternoon.
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October 27, 2013 2:18pm
Kea

Harriet, Iran has attacked no one for centuries. What on earth are you on about ? They have the two biggest jewish countries saber rattling [USA and Israel] with the US parked up next door. The US backed Saddam to attack them. The Persians have as much right to exist as do a bunch of European squatters occupying a patch of desert.

It is people like you who have persecuted Jews. You are very comfortable and enthusiastic in demonising and dehumanising people based on their religion. As a point of fact Christians have persecuted Jews for far longer than they have been supporting them. And they justified it in the same way you justify vilification of Muslims.
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October 27, 2013 2:23pm
mandk

Does anyone know of a reliable way of ridding Ask.com from my internet home page?
I asked Ask how to do it, and I got a reply asking how much I was prepared to pay to solve my problem.
I call that extortion.
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October 27, 2013 2:28pm
Azeraph

Why is the ME crucial to our part of the planet?
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October 27, 2013 2:29pm
Kea

mandk, you can find that in your settings. Also go into programs and weed it out.
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October 27, 2013 2:30pm
Kea

“Why is the ME crucial to our part of the planet?”

It is not. But the US is the second biggest Jewish nation on earth and is creating the narrative. The only conflict we have with the Muslims is by association with the US and the only conflict the US has with Islam is by association with Israel.

The West needs to pack up, go home and mind its own business. We can still buy their oil and trade with them. How they conduct their affairs is their business. We need to protect what we have at home. The UK kills radical Muslims in their homes, but allows the most dangerous, mobile and best resourced Islamic extremists in the world to flourish back in the UK. Utter fucking madness.
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October 27, 2013 2:36pm
UglyTruth

Why is the ME crucial to our part of the planet?

Because of the significance of the system of ethics which was instituted there and later incorporated in part into much of western culture.
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October 27, 2013 2:38pm
wat dabney

“The only conflict we have with the Muslims is by association with the US and the only conflict the US has with Islam is by association with Israel. ”

You won’t find a more clueless analysis on the whole of the Internet I’d wager.
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October 27, 2013 2:42pm
mandk

Thanks Kea, but my settings tell me that Google is my home page, and I can’t find Ask in my programs.
I didn’t have this problem before Windows 8, but that might be irrelevant.
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October 27, 2013 2:43pm
Sofia

Dominique Schwartz for ABC NEWS on Cameron Slater outing Len Brown – audio
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-26/outing-the-private-lives-of-public-figures/5048196

To discuss “How far should the media pry into private lives” they repeat most of the best bits, but miss that the Ngati Whanau Room probably now needs re-consecration.

In the end they seem most unhappy with Cameron Slater’s motives and quote the Batman movie THE DARK KNIGHT – Some men just want to watch the world burn – and then link it to the Australian bushfires.
Bloody Aussies for ya.
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October 27, 2013 2:56pm
Kea

mandk, it will be in there some where. I hate it when something like that changes the settings. I am not familiar with Windows 8 and from what I have heard I will probably avoid it.

Googling will generally give you a fix. I am sure you are not the first.
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October 27, 2013 3:17pm
Kea

You won’t find a more clueless analysis on the whole of the Internet I’d wager.

Wat, really ? I don’t believe you. Because you were not able to provide an alternative analysis.

There seems to be a theme here. I make a comment, back it up, and all I get are personal attacks. Basically every thing I am seeing amounts to little more than the logical fallacy of special pleading in regard to the Jews.

Why do you think an exception is made to every rule for Jews and Jews alone ?
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October 27, 2013 3:21pm
Yvette

Mandk – re: ASK, see –
http://malwaretips.com/blogs/remove-ask-toolbar-and-search/
or Google “getting rid of ASK”
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October 27, 2013 3:30pm
OneTrack

Kea -“Islam is not a natural enemy of the USA…”

You’re right. Islam is the natural enemy of western democracy, which the USA just happens to be one example of.

The UK trains and bus bombings were because of all the aid the UK gives to Israel? Salman Rushdie sends aid to Israel? The Dutch cartoonists send aid to Israel? Yeah, it’s all Israels fault.
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October 27, 2013 3:34pm
Azeraph

UglyTruth (1,979) Says:
October 27th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

God brought his people back but nowhere in the book does it say defend it, in fact it says he hasn’t finished with his people yet. I really can’t see many surviving his culling when he starts.
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October 27, 2013 3:34pm
OneTrack

Kea – “…It was not a bunch of brave Jews battling nasty Arabs….”

It wasn’t, but it is now.
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October 27, 2013 3:39pm
Kea

OneTrack, the establishment of Israel is the catalyst for the current situation. I am not suggesting the response by radical Islamists is justified. It is simply an observation.

You are wrong to attribute all this to religion. Some of it is cultural and Islam is being used as a rallying point for the disenfranchised who see it as a counter to Western hegemony.

At least the Christians have [finally at long last] stopped persecuting Jews as they have done for centuries and are now busy vilifying another religion who prays to the same god and regard jesus as a prophet just as they do.
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October 27, 2013 3:41pm
UglyTruth

Azeraph, I think it is simply a crisis of ignorance. So many have taken the easy road of faith in things that don’t make any sense.
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October 27, 2013 3:41pm
Azeraph

UglyTruth (1,980) Says:
October 27th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

Yes this is true.
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October 27, 2013 3:53pm
OneTrack

Ugly Truth -“Since when has the Zionist state of Israel been a democracy?”

1949
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October 27, 2013 3:55pm
Kea

WHY ORTHODOX JEWS ARE OPPOSED TO A ZIONIST STATE

First some introductions:

1) What is “The People of Israel” ?

The People of Israel have existed for thousands of years.
They have their own particular, essential nature.
The Torah is the source of their essential nature.
Without Torah and Faith there is no People of Israel.
Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the People of Israel.
The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine Service.
Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service.

2) What is Zionism?

Zionism is a relatively new thing.
It has only existed for a century.
Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the People of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character – a materialistic worldly nation.
Their misfortune is lack of what other nations possess, i.e. a state and army.
Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.
This is clearly spelled out in the circles of Zionist thought, and among the leaders of the Zionist State, that through changing the nature and character of the People of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel “their salvation” — a state and an army.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called “State of Israel” for four reasons:

http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm
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October 27, 2013 3:56pm
UglyTruth

OneTrack, the fact that elections occur does not mean that democracy exists.
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October 27, 2013 4:05pm
Kea

Nothing wrong with a zoinist state, it is just that they built it on land that was not theirs. It is absurd to think that born and bred Europeans should have exclusive domain over a patch of the Middle East, based entirely on religious fables, which themselves are flawed. It is wrong even according to their own ignorant primitive cult.
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October 27, 2013 4:19pm
bereal

i know that the legal system has to run its course and that our system is
designed to be fair to all.

However, it makes me puke my guts that one of the most disgusting, sickening, cowardly, self
centered murderers in our history is now out of jail, sitting at home, watching TV and actually has sum
deluded sheeple supporting him.

Mark Lundy should have been hanged.
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October 27, 2013 4:22pm
UglyTruth

Mark Lundy should have been hanged.

Are you happy with the possibility of being a party to murder when an innocent man is a killed based on circumstantial evidence?

I’m not saying Lundy is innocent, only that NZ’s current standard of proof isn’t appropriate for the death penalty.
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October 27, 2013 4:35pm
bhudson

NZ’s current standard of proof isn’t appropriate for the death penalty.

Beyond reasonable doubt is not appropriate? You need something more? Like beyond, beyond reasonable doubt?*

* reference to Blackadder IV and “a fate worse than a fate worse than death”
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October 27, 2013 4:42pm
Reid

Aposite to the above topic: ex-Marine gives an Israel-firster hell. Hoo-rah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=linBuJ7XHZU
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October 27, 2013 5:11pm
Kea

Reid, good to hear at least someone who sees what is before their eyes.
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October 27, 2013 5:26pm
Fletch

An American student accidentally wandered into a so-called “Muslim-only” enclave in London and is beaten by 5 Muslims, leaving him permanently disfigured. They beat him up because he was carrying a drink, which is a no-no apparently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmRoMAo47tY
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October 27, 2013 5:38pm
Reid

Reid, good to hear at least someone who sees what is before their eyes.

Cognitive dissonance has never been a problem Kea. Other things have, but not that.
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October 27, 2013 5:41pm
David Garrett

Here’s my take on Lundy…my opinion being no more or less valid than anyone else who hasn’t heard or studied all the evidence…

The “he couldnt have done it because of the time he needed to do the drive in” case is completely dependent on the time of death in the Crown’s theory of the case being more or less right, which in turn is heavily dependent on the analysis of the degree of the digestion of the fast food meal the victims ate…and that evidence now seems to be seriously challenged.

The “was it the wife’s brain tissue on his shirt?” issue is probably now unresolvable because the police f..ed up the preservation of the samples of said tissue to the point where that evidence – described as crucial to the Crown case – is now pretty well useless. There will be competing evidence at the retrial on the time of death/digestion of the meal issue, but it seems the brain tissue evidence now falls out of the picture completely.

My two cents? He did it all right…but like Bain, he will eventually walk because “beyond reasonsable doubt” is a very high standard, and someone like Michael Reid QC will establish reasonable doubt…another example of the Police making a hash of a murder case, and a good argument against reintroducing CP…which won’t ever happen in any event.
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October 27, 2013 5:47pm
Nostradamus

David Garrett:

Just to repeat my previous comment on the Lundy case:

The one thing I wonder about in relation to the Lundy case (not that I profess to have followed the evidence in any great detail) is that the case against him turned, in part, on locating him in Petone due to a phone call from his deceased wife. I’m not sure he had any control over the timing of her phone call to him, particularly if the intention was to produce an alibi. On balance, I still have some doubts about his claimed innocence, but this factual point seems a bit hard to reconcile with the case against him.

Do you have a view on this?
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October 27, 2013 5:50pm

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