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September 4, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 4 September 2013

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General Debate

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mandk

Lucia Maria
Keep up the good fight.
Kea does seem to be an intelligent chap, but he also seems to find it difficult to remain temperate as the day goes on.
He also finds it difficult to distinguish between political, tribal and religious strife.
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September 4, 2013 6:47pm
Ryan Sproull

KEA U SO SMART Y U NO AGREE WITH MY RITENESSSSSSS
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September 4, 2013 7:11pm
Griff

Ryan
You are playing ~~pigeon~~ parrot* chess.

*Refers to having a pointless debate with somebody utterly ignorant of the subject matter, but standing on a dogmatic position that cannot be moved with any amount of education or logic, but who always proclaims victory.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pigeon%20chess
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September 4, 2013 7:32pm
Kea

Ryan Sproull, I guess I just can’t get my head around the idea that bombing people and invading them improves their quality of life. I am also further handicapped by not hating Jews, Muslims or Christians. I don’t like religion in general, but I have no desire to butcher its followers as the resident Christians demand. The funny thing is those same people constantly tell me JC bought an end to all that death and retribution that litters the Old Testament. They tell me he is about loving thy neighbor and turning the other cheek. Not leveling their cities and drone attacks.

Still maybe we are on a roll with the huge successes in Egypt, Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Mali. Korea… All of which are now world leaders in human rights, loving Jesus and democracy ! Maybe war does work.

I mean that is why the iron curtain is still up and why we don’t trade with China. Because the ONLY way to bring change is with bombs.
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September 4, 2013 7:42pm
Redbaiter

A man with the depth of character that so many lack today.

POW released by Germans kept his promise to return.
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September 4, 2013 7:43pm
Kea

Oh look our resident stoner is here with nothing to say about anything, except some borrowed ad hominem attack that completely avoids any reference to the topic or facts. How is the weather/climate up there tonight Griffy ? 🙂
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September 4, 2013 7:46pm
Kea

A man with the depth of character that so many lack today.

Red, you can count on such a man regarding you with utter contempt for your pro war views and martial language. Be sure of it.
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September 4, 2013 7:48pm
Griff

Don’t feed the trolls.
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September 4, 2013 7:53pm
Lucia Maria

My onions are burning. I’m spending too much time thinking about stuff and not putting enough focus into my cooking.

Thanks mandk!

Kea, had a look at the photos. Human beings are capable of the most terrible atrocities. That is why we pray that we are not tested beyond our strength to resist in the Our Father. However, you are seriously straying from your moral equivalence argument. Luckily Croats are not the invaders in Muslim lands, it’s the Americans we are talking about, and they have not been subject to the historic Muslim invasions that the Croats have over the centuries.

The drivel that I was referring to is your argument that the American invasions of Muslim lands was like the Nazi and Soviet (and Roman invasions). Personally, as a computer programmer, I am against broad generalisations and programs that handle everything. Far better to be specific, take each case on it’s merits. Broad comparisons can be completely useless. If you knew, for instance, that the Katyn massacres by the Soviets occurred after a joint victory parade with the Germans in Poland, then you would realise the direction of the information flow was not from Soviet to Nazi, but from Nazi to Soviet, indicating who was superior. And the Nazis attacked the Soviets pretty quickly (1941), not the other way around.

Far from being moderate, the Nazis were just more sophisticated than the Soviets were.
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September 4, 2013 8:01pm
Kea

Don’t feed the trolls.

Wow that is deep 🙂

And to think some people claim cannabis use degrades ones mind !
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September 4, 2013 8:02pm
bereal

Regarding Sir Owen Glenn,

What did i miss ?
Why is this story being reported in this manner.
What is the reason ?

Why have some reporters here in New Zealand come out with reports over the years that always
seem to take have a thread that treats him with less respect that he deserves ?

How else could you describe this typical report from a reporter, Kirsty Johnston.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9125900/Sir-Owen-Glenn-formally-knighted

Why would you write that first paragraph in a report that was reporting an honour that
was being conferred on a man ?

Why couldn’t she have left such a negative point to another day, even if she felt compelled
to mention it, why not leave it to later down in the report ?

i think that that was so dissrespectfull.

Point is, some minority seem to have a problem with Sir Owens generosity being recognised.

Why would that be ?
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September 4, 2013 8:08pm
Ryan Sproull

If it wasn’t clear, I was expressing my distaste for the common practice on Kiwiblog of backhandedly complimenting people when they disagree with you. Often through talking about them in the third person when you know they can read what you’re saying.

For example:

Kea, just give Lucia some time. She’s obviously very intelligent and it will probably take a few days for her natural logical sense to digest your points and get her questioning some of the assumptions she’s accumulated through her social interactions.

God, don’t I sound like a condescending dick when I say that?
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September 4, 2013 8:12pm
Kea

The drivel that I was referring to is your argument that the American invasions of Muslim lands was like the Nazi and Soviet (and Roman invasions).

Lucy, I did not say that and I aleady told you I was not making a specific comparison.

You do make generalisations and they encompass most of your thinking. You could not function without generalisations. There are sound evolutionary reasons that explain why we use stereotypes and generalisations that I will not traverse here. Broad comparisons are not useless they are essential.

When you make a generalisation you will be generally right. When you choose the exceptions you will be generally wrong. You drive your kids around knowing full well many kids die in car crashes. You monster !!!! But not really. Because generally you do not crash. Stop and think about just how many generalisations and assumptions you make in the next ten minutes. You will be surprised. Essentially generalisations are simply prior learning. A 2 day old baby makes very little, but a mature woman will make them non stop.

Whats for dinner ? 🙂
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September 4, 2013 8:22pm
Kea

Ryan Sproull, it was clear but too subtle for KB at this time of day. Most of them are stoned or pissed by now. But not my Lucy, she is a good wholesome lady and sexy too. I just know it. I can tell by the way she writes 😉
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September 4, 2013 8:37pm
Steve (North Shore)

Just in case you forgot:
http://www.pictogame.com/en/play/game/jB3GFnCCKEPb_kick-trevor-mallard
And three stooges just waiting
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September 4, 2013 8:41pm
OneTrack

Bereal – “Point is, some minority seem to have a problem with Sir Owens generosity being recognised.

Why would that be ?”

Is it because once he had the problem with Helen, he was a designated an enemy of the people. Or is Kirsty Johnson just another incompetent progressive journolist who focuses on chopping down the tall poppies.
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September 4, 2013 8:42pm
Lucia Maria

Ryan,

LOL, and thanks for the backhanded compliment! And LOL again.

Kea,

Lucy, I did not say that and I aleady told you I was not making a specific comparison.

Yeah, saw that. And then you made the comparison by implication, having it both ways.

The point being, every invasion is not necessarily the same. Each group of people have to weigh up the costs of resistance vs capitulation. In the case of the Muslims today, the cost of resistance is too high and has little to no benefit. We are not talking about an invader that rounds up people and puts them into concentration camps, but one that is instead trying to remove threats to themselves, and that ends up benefiting everyone, including those being invaded.

You do make generalisations and they encompass most of your thinking. You could not function without generalisations. There are sound evolutionary reasons that explain why we use stereotypes and generalisations that I will not traverse here. Broad comparisons are not useless they are essential. … [blah, blah, blah]

No disagreement there. However, one cannot stop at just a broad generalisation. Every situation has to be evaluated specifically and tested for variables, because if we didn’t do that, we’d be no better than robots. Which is my whole point about comparisons. You can compare invasions in general, but if you don’t look at the people involved and the circumstances at play in each one, then you can easily fall into error and stupidity. Just like pacifists do when they say all war is bad and they won’t participate in them. Would they really not defend their families if they were directly threatened?

Whats for dinner ?

Stir fry steak in onion, garlic and ginger base with curry powder sprinkled on, served with kumara, carrots and broccoli. Turned out ok as I managed to rescue the onions in time.
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September 4, 2013 9:39pm
publicwatchdog

WHEN YOUR RIGHTS ARE UNDER ATTACK – SIT DOWN AND REFUSE TO MOVE! 🙂

After not being invited to the Auckland School of Architecture Mayoral Forum, and after asking (nicely) to be included, and being declined – I arrived early at the Fisher and Paykel Auditorium, pulled up a seat, and refused to move.

In my view it was both sexist and a form of political censorship, to not be invited, when I have already attended a number of Mayoral forums/ debates with incumbent Mayor Len Brown, John Palino, John Minto and the Reverend Uesifili Unasa.

Especially given the work I have done as an ‘investigative activist’ in checking out the LAW, FACTS and EVIDENCE about the Auckland (Spatial) Plan (which the Auckland Draft Unitary Plan is supposed to implement).

ie: The ‘million more people coming to Auckland’, is NOT lawfully-based because it is based upon the Department of Statistics ‘high’ population growth projections, instead of the ‘medium’ population growth projections, which they had advised Auckland Council to use.

Initially, Auckland University security guards were called to try and encourage me to leave, but I sat my ground and said that although I understand they had a job to do – so had I – and that they should ring the Police because I wasn’t moving.

In the end, commonsense and ‘fair play’ prevailed, and I was given the same opportunity as the four male candidates to explain my vision and answer questions (which I had not seen prior to this meeting).

Full credit to the Reverend Uesifili Unasa, as the only other Mayoral candidate, who emailed me, offering his support.

Again, I used the opportunity to tell people who is REALLY running the Auckland region – the unelected, invitation-only http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz/membership

A BIG thank you to fellow community activist, fellow ‘Public Watchdog’ Lisa Prager for her invaluable support.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/9126988/Mayoral-candidates-debate-future-of-city

GO THE GRRRLS!

😉

Her Warship

http://www.pennybright4mayor.og.nz
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September 4, 2013 9:57pm
Kea

Lucy, please tell me this is a wind up. Are you seriously advancing the notion that the Muslims should just give up because the Christian invaders are good people ? Are you aware they would claim the exact same thing. As Marilyn Manson said in his song Disposable Teens “I never really headed one true god, but the god of the people I hated!”. It pretty much sums up your position.

Here is something else that may help make the point: https://www.dropbox.com/s/s2dwjs2jisu5jgw/sGBRJwo.jpg

In real life I am far more likely to talk about cooking than I am about religion. 🙂
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September 4, 2013 10:10pm

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