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August 7, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 7 August 2013

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General Debate

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graham

So, different stories from two sides, Pete. Where have we seen that before?

The fact remains, I do not see how anybody can trust Peter Dunne while he continues to so casually minimise the betrayal of confidences and secrets.
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August 7, 2013 6:28pm
graham

“Yeah, right graeme. Hinting at allegiances?”

First, it’s “graham”. And second, so what? is there anything wrong with having allegiances or being loyal to someone? I would have thought you could understand that.

But for the record, no, I have no allegiance or ties to Winston Peters.
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August 7, 2013 6:32pm
bereal

Franz Kafka once remarked,

‘They discuss minusutaie to an extant that is lambentable”.

Well at least that is a step up from talking to low lifes like dime and
his admiriati nicky about their favourite subject, eating s..t.

Speaking of dime and little nicky…
where are they tonite after day after day, on and on ..
. revealing how low one they go ?

Maybe they did take my advice and got a room.
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August 7, 2013 6:43pm
OneTrack

Kea – “kowtow, can you list the Christian countries currently occupied by Muslim troops ?

Good luck, there are none.”

UK, USA, France, Australia, New Zealand,……
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August 7, 2013 6:48pm
nickb

Its ok Beryl Grylls. Your very particular set of skills may come in handy if you ever get marooned on a desert island.
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August 7, 2013 6:50pm
Pete George

Police spokesperson:

Mr Winston Peters’ name came up in the police “tea pot tape” inquiry due to the public statements he’d made at the time about knowledge of the contents of the tape.

However Mr Peters’ telephone records were not accessed nor was there any application for a warrant to access his telephone records.

The Prime Minister was the complainant in this case. As is normal practice the complainant was kept updated on the inquiry. In this instance this was done through the Prime Minister’s office.

http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/mr-peters-telephone-records-not-accessed-police/5/163707

And…

Claim utter nonsense, says PM

Prime Minister John Key on Wednesday described Mr Peters’ allegations as nonsense and it was entirely up to police how they conducted their investigation.

Mr Key said a police complainant is generally kept informed on progress of their case – but any suggestion that his office influenced or was aware of the operational details of the investigation is offensive.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/216413/peters-says-police-wanted-his-private-phone-records

Who to believe? The police, John Key, and many precedents?

Or Winston with his supporters graham and nick?
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August 7, 2013 6:51pm
Judith

bereal (2,747) Says:
August 7th, 2013 at 5:13 pm
—————————-

They were right to deny him parole, whilst having a job is an indication of some stability, it depends on the job, where it is, how permanent and who it brings him into contact with.

Many offenders are ‘offered’ jobs when they are close to getting parole, however on closer inspection the jobs are just made up to assist with the application, and/or may be in places that are not ideal given the offenders specific offending.

Unless this man has completed a sex offenders course, and is open, honest and accepting of his potential to re-offend, then I believe he should not get parole. Sex offenders, especially those that target young people in power and control situations require good supervision, because as soon as they are under stress, the propensity is to revert to their previous behaviour is high, and to be honest, dealing with young teenage people is very challenging.
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August 7, 2013 6:51pm
Kea

OneTrack, true, but the same could be said about various other religions. Israel has only just crept ahead of the USA as having the biggest Jewish population in the world. I wonder if you would have been as comfortable as pointing that out as a Jewish “occupation” ?
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August 7, 2013 6:52pm
bereal

And nickb cliams to be a lawyer. What a joke.

Sort of like dime claims to ….
have just bought a house….

with a big swimming pool….

has a business that grosses 200k….

goes back stage with his mates at all the rock concerts….bullshit…

knows everybody you ever heard of…..

reverts to gutter language when called out…” eat shit” etc, etc…

only ever roots whores,,, and then only once, why ?…

is full of it.

No, full of himself…
Who else on this blog has such a low self esteem that he needs to try and bolster himmself up ?

Both full of self agrandising bullshit that makes any genuine person puke.

What is the story when you need to tell everyone, over and over, what a Hero
you are ?

We know.

Quite sad.
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August 7, 2013 7:10pm
bereal

Judith,
again i tend to agree with you but feel you may be a bit soft.
This POS will offend again sooner or later.
The point i was driving at is that in the face of all common sense the fact that he
has been offered a job seems to have some weight.
i fail to see the relevance of that.
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August 7, 2013 7:22pm
wiseowl

This is more important to me.
Fonterra has been fined for price fixing of milk product in China, according to a report on BBC World News.
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August 7, 2013 7:22pm
nickb

Or Winston with his supporters graham and nick?

Winston Peters ranks up there with Dunne as an odious liar. I won’t ask you to point to the comment where I showed support for him, because I know you won’t be able to.

More smearing tactics by the UF “public relations” manager.
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August 7, 2013 7:34pm
graham

Meanwhile, Pete George chooses to trust Peter Dunne, who time and again attempts to casually minimise the betrayal of Government confidences and secrets.

Keep trying …
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August 7, 2013 7:35pm
Pete George

You seem to be the only one who keeps banging on about the slightly early release of the Kitteridge report as if it was a major of some sort. A bit of embarrassment for Key while he was away in China and he was pissed off. But he got over it quite quickly and tried to move on yonks ago.

Most people don’t care who leaked it, or that it was leaked. National don’t care. Greens don’t care. Labour don’t care. Only Winston keeps seeing it as means of toppling a foe. And graham and nick. I don’t know of anyone else.

@Lol_Nats

Judith Collins has denied Winston Peters phone records were planned to be seized by the Police saying “No one cares what Winston says.”
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August 7, 2013 7:50pm
mikenmild

I care. Cabinet ministers shouldn’t feel free to leak confidential reports whenever they want.
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August 7, 2013 7:53pm
Pete George

You think it was a cabinet minister who leaked?
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August 7, 2013 7:57pm
Steve (North Shore)

So how much are Winston First and Dunne paying each other to keep the MSM interested PG?
They are both whores and you know this – so where is your political inheritence coming from? Are you the big leaker?
Do you know of ‘black bear’ or ‘thirteen uncle’?
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August 7, 2013 7:57pm
Nostradamus

Pete George:

Most people don’t care who leaked it, or that it was leaked.

Could you please explain what specific evidence you’ve relied on (public polls?) to come to that conclusion?
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August 7, 2013 7:58pm
nasska

A farmer wins ten million dollars playing Lotto and is being
interviewed. He is asked what he is going to do with all the
money.

“Oh, I guess the first thing I’ll do is go and pay a few bills.”

“And what about the rest?” the reporter asks.

The farmer shrugs. “Well, I guess they’ll just have to wait.”
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August 7, 2013 8:00pm
mikenmild

Please Pete, you don’t need to keep pretending there is any doubt about who leaked that report.
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August 7, 2013 8:02pm
Pete George

There’s a lack of evidence that anyone cares any more. Show me where all the concern is.

What do you think Nostradamus? Is it a big deal to you? Do you know of heaps of people it’s a big deal to?
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August 7, 2013 8:02pm
Pete George

mikey, if you think it was a cabinet minister that rules out Dunne.
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August 7, 2013 8:05pm
mikenmild

Perhaps I should have said any Minister of the Crown, whether within or outside the Cabinet. I keep forgetting that we have to have so many Ministers that there isn’t enough room for them all around the Cabinet table.
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August 7, 2013 8:08pm
Nostradamus

Pete:

I think the public debate has moved on, somewhat, to focus on the GCSB legislation.

But. that said, the Kitteridge report is what sparked off the public debate in the first place. I think there are serious questions to be answered about who leaked the report. Unfortunately, there are practical limitations (which have been discussed at length on this blog and elsewhere) on what can be done to identify the person who leaked. The point is that, whoever leaked, he or she is presumably still in a position with privileged access to classified information. That, for me, is a concern.
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August 7, 2013 8:09pm
Left Right and Centre

dishy 8:02 am Genius. Keep up that quality of post and I’d like to see a lot more than 143 of them.
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August 7, 2013 8:10pm
mikenmild

Nostradamus

Fortunately the person resposnsible resigned as a Minister, so no longer has access to confidential material to leak.
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August 7, 2013 8:12pm
nickb

Show me where all the concern is.

The balls on this guy! Puts forward a ridiculous proposition without an ounce of proof or evidence and challenges others to disprove it once pulled up on it.

Fuck me. Who would have you as their spokesman?
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August 7, 2013 8:14pm
mikenmild

To be fair, a few weeks of defending his Dear Leader’s conduct has polished Pete’s sophistry to a remarkable degree.
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August 7, 2013 8:16pm
Left Right and Centre

A new campaign aims to convince children that wearing a helmet while on a scooter is cool.

If it was cool… they wouldn’t require any fucking convincing, would they? Dickheads.
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August 7, 2013 8:18pm
Pete George

Puts forward a ridiculous proposition without an ounce of proof

I thought you were talking about Henry for a minute, then I saw who wrote it.

mikey, you are wrong on several counts.

Dunne is trusted, Key has said so publicly and actions back this up.

If the media were half as certain as you make out you are, if they sensed lies, they would have gone for the jugular.

Assuming what you do, with no evidence, is dangerous if you share Nostradamus’ concern that whoever leaked, he or she is presumably still in a position with privileged access to classified information.
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August 7, 2013 8:22pm
nickb

If it was cool… they wouldn’t require any fucking convincing, would they? Dickheads.

LRC, tell me more about this meat-laden diet you’re on. Makes you run like the wind you say? I am training for some events (just started) and need all the help I can get. Are you saying if I eat sausages with cream for breakfast I can break the 4 minute mile?
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August 7, 2013 8:22pm
Pete George

Fuck me. Who would have you as their spokesman?

I don’t know, I’ve never been asked to be anyone’s spokesman.

Who would have you representing them on legal matters if they knew what you were like here? Dishonesty does fit well with some professions in particular.
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August 7, 2013 8:25pm
nasska

Don’t worry LR&C. If the brainwashing doesn’t work then the sledgehammer of legislation will be used. Either way the Mummsies who know best will get their way.

The result will be even more fat, cotton wool wrapped kids doomed to a life of dialysis & depression.
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August 7, 2013 8:26pm
mikenmild

One more time:
A confidential report was leaked to journalist Andrea Vance.
One of the persons with access to the report was Peter Dunne.
Dunne was in frequent email and personal contact with Vance.
Dunne admitted considering leaking the report.
Dunne refused to release the content of his emails to the inquiry investigating the leak.
Dunne resigned rather than comply with the Prime Minister’s insistence that the emails be released.
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August 7, 2013 8:28pm
Left Right and Centre

The alert goes off 1kmh over the limit and, thanks to in-built GPS data, there is no room for cheating in lower speed zones such as the Golden Mile.

More reasons not to drive buses… as if you needed any more…

1km over speed limit!! ALERT!! ALERT!! You dirty evil murderer….. 31km/h? Get back down to 30 RIGHT NOW!!
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August 7, 2013 8:31pm
graham

We all know that “trust” in politics has a completely different meaning to how most people use the word.

John Key may well trust Peter Dunne to support the Government on certain matters, for as long as it politically expedient for Dunne to do so. How long will that be? Probably until the next election, as long as both Key and Dunne continue to get what they want.

But if John Key trusts that Peter Dunne, who time and again attempts to casually minimise the betrayal of Government confidences and secrets, would not leak any documents should it be in Dunne’s interest to do so, then Key is incredibly naive. And I don’t believe he is. In politics, as in business, what people say for public consumption is often quite different to what is going on behind the scenes. Key is saying whatever is necessary to keep hold of his slim majority via the coalition partners, but behind the scenes it will be a quite different story. This is why Key accepted Dunne’s resignation – to distance him from the position where he can do real damage.

Most of also remember that Key said, on the day of Dunne’s resignation, that the Kitteridge report was a sensitive Government document and the leak was “a very serious matter.” Key may well say publicly that he trusts Dunne (meaning, he trusts him to support the Government for the next few months), but that’s because he has to. In private, he’ll be watching him like a hawk.
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August 7, 2013 8:39pm
Left Right and Centre

Word of the day: ‘taciturn’.

That’s one sexy bitch of a word.. I’m so horny…. imagine if I actually came up with that one while conversing… I’d have to use it and then find a shower to cool off….
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August 7, 2013 8:42pm
Nostradamus

Graham:

I think you make an excellent distinction between a carefully-worded public statement that A has confidence and trust in B (on the one hand) and privately-held doubts, on the part of A, about whether he should continue to have confidence and trust in B (on the other hand).

The public statement is, for practical purposes, a political statement intended to a specific audience.
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August 7, 2013 8:47pm
Pete George

That’s right mikey. But:
Expose any of several dozen others to the level of presumption, intrusion, speculation and several others could easily make up accusations against them with similar weak reasons.

And:
Zero evidence of leaking.
Open about what he did and considered – why would he admit considering it when he could have easily suppressed that as well?
Was out of the country for most of the time it could have been leaked.
One of the least likely of leakers (according to seasoned journalists).
No obvious or proven motive.
Little to gain, much to lose by leaking.
The most obvious ways of leaking were not investigated.
His explanations and comments on it have been consistent and supported by facts.
Hasn’t been proven wrong on any aspect of it.
Still trusted by the PM.
Not pursued by any journalists over it.
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August 7, 2013 8:49pm
Nostradamus

Pete:

Do you agree that all of this could be cleared up, instantaneously, if Dunne and Vance agree to release their email communications in full?

I appreciate that they won’t be doing that, but that’s not my question. My question is: would those email communications clear up the situation one way or the other, in your view?
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August 7, 2013 8:52pm
Pete George

But if John Key trusts that Peter Dunne, who time and again attempts to casually minimise the betrayal of Government confidences and secrets, would not leak any documents should it be in Dunne’s interest to do so, then Key is incredibly naive. And I don’t believe he is.

I believe you are making a false accusation there graham, you are at least exaggerating somewhat. That would be hypocritical of you considering what you’ve said to me.
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August 7, 2013 8:54pm
graham

What do you believe I am accusing Dunne of, Pete?

Given that he admitted to considering leaking, it would be very naive to believe that he would not leak in the future, should it be politically expedient for him to do so and he believed that whatever he intended to leak was sufficiently “unimportant” (in his opinion) for it not to matter.
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August 7, 2013 9:05pm
Pete George

“My question is: would those email communications clear up the situation one way or the other, in your view?”

My honest answer is that I very much doubt it. One possibility that’s been mentioned is that Vance may have told Dunne who leaked, but that would be a major breach of confidence so I think it’s very unlikely.

Dunne has not let slip anything that I’ve noticed, and I’ve made it my business to follow things closely, that suggest that he leaked the report. He’s talked about it a lot and I’ve never seen him slip up and say anything that didn’t fit his claims of innocence.

If he had lied to me about it I was prepared to walk away from UF. I still would.

Of course it’s possible that having had a reputation for three decades of not being a leaker he could leak once and maintain a flawless denial through extensive exposure. But apart from the day or two after he resigned when there was widespread surprise I haven’t seen any journalist pull him up on anything he’s said.

And it’s not just his word I’m going on, it’s also his wife’s, plus the party president who has also had extensive contact with him over this.

So I have no idea what in the email contents could clear up the case of who leaked, and don’t believe they would clear up the critical issue of who leaked.
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August 7, 2013 9:09pm
Nostradamus

Thanks Pete.

You’ve obviously been following this issue more closely than I have, so let me ask you this: do we have any publicly-available information about the nature of the leak? Was it the whole report? Was it an extract from the report? Was it a summary of the report findings (in the leaker’s own words)?

If it was a summary of the report findings (in the leaker’s own words), for example, then the fact that Dunne was overseas would be, at best, a neutral factor I would have thought. Do you agree?

And, in terms of Dunne’s wife and the party president, I’m not sure they could claim to be in a better position than us to judge the publicly-available information, surely?

Now, if you were to say that Dunne’s wife has told you that she’s seen all of the email correspondence between Dunne and Vance (some of which is not currently publicly-available information), then that’s potentially a different matter.
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August 7, 2013 9:16pm
Left Right and Centre

nickb 8:22 pm First off.. I’m flattered that anyone is asking me anything about anything.

Disclaimer: I’m joe muppet so you get what you pay for.

I switched to the low-carb high-fat (LCHF) diet theory on Tuesday. Ran marathon Saturday. Of three previous marathons this year, times were 4:09, 3:44, 3:46. Saturday? 3:34’16”.

I have to really ‘be in the right place’ to run a marathon. The rest of the time I’ve got no idea how I’ve ever run one at 10km/h+.

So on LCHF…. I was eating a shit-ton of meat… mince and steak. And butter and cheese. I mean eating butter cut off the block mate. No shit. As much as I wanted.. because that’s the theory on this website

According to the ‘count calories’ theory… that’s suicidal eating behaviour if your goal is to maintain current weight level. It predicts you will gain. But that’s not why you called… you want to know about fuel/ activity relationship, sure.

Under the counting calories diet theory…. I had ‘loaded’ up the tanks with fuel for Africa… you’re like a coiled spring waiting to unleash the fury!!

So… was that down to the change in diet? I honestly believe that most likely that’s what it was. To be ‘up for’ a marathon in the first place, and then go out and waste your best time… yep.. nutrition. Also.. I usually run every day and only ever miss one day at most… I’d missed Thurs/ Fri before Sat.. two days rest beforehand. Could also be a factor.

One of the previous marathons was motivated by a bingefest of a leftover old pack of Wheat Biscuits… 1.2kg I ate over an evening/ morning. I went out to burn it off. And ran another 10kms 2-3 hours later in 50 mins (before your legs seize up next 1-2 days). So again… the link between loading up beforehand and performance.

You can read about pre-event carb-loading and all of that carry on. It looks good. I’d just say don’t stint on the fuel for energy… lean on the side of too much if anything. I ate 1.2kg of breakfast cereal over a 15 hour span and ran a marathon…. it’s probably quite hard to overdo the portion size. As long as your tank is topped when you start your event… you’ll never run out of fuel unless it’s going to be ten hours or something stupid. It’ll come down to your fitness… not your fuel running out. If it started off topped up.

I’ve found the opposite when I’ve been dieting hard… gone for a 10km run.. you’ll know when you’re really flat because it feels like you’re ‘floating’ along the footpath… but not floating in a good way. In a weak way. You can feel it’s not your legs, it’s your engine stalling. Horrible feeling. Have to drag yourself along at off-pace which is just rubbish. I should know better but when I’ve been getting my weight back down to gold standard…. yeah.

The body likes carbs as primary fuel… so go for the carbs… the slow burners. As the body burns it’s carbs up in the energy pool, it starts oxidising stored fat for use as fuel. And the fat just doesn’t work as well as the carbs. It’s second best. So… I guess the way to avoid that is to try keep the fuel tank as full as possible of carb. It might need a top up if it’s an endurance event. When the fat ratio increases… the body has to make adjustments to burn it… it’s not as good… and when athletes run out of carbs to burn.. that’s what’s known as ‘hitting the wall’.. they’ve got to switch to burning fat… which just means a ‘wee’ drop in energy while your system reconfigurates. Think of swapping gas bottles on a forklift. Is the forklift moving while you swap them? I don’t think so. Anyway… is that useful?
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August 7, 2013 9:16pm
Pete George

“Given that he admitted to considering leaking, it would be very naive to believe that he would not leak in the future”

On the contrary, that he considered the possibility of leaking but decided not to, but felt guilty enough for considering it to admit it and resign, makes me think he is not the sort of person likely to leak.

Of course he could leak in the future, anyone could, but for a number of reasons I very much doubt it, including:
– leaking has not been in his political DNA
– he would not want to risk going through the personal hell again that he and his family have had to deal with
– he is determined to rebuild the party and wouldn’t want to risk that
– I think he is determined to prove that he is not a leaker
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August 7, 2013 9:18pm
Pete George

Henry reported that he thought it was clear it was the full final version that was leaked excluding the appendices (that were the only part that was classified).

Which version of the report was leaked?

22.l am confident that it was the final version of 22 March 2013. Last minute changes made by Ms Kitteridge on that day are effectively reflected in the newspaper article.

23.The news article quoted extensively from the Kitteridge report. Detailed analysis shows that the reporter had access to the final version, rather than to parts of it or to earlier versions. This follows from

a. the extent to which the text is followed, and

b. a comparison of the article with both the final version and with the earlier versions of the report.

Were the cIassified appendices leaked?

24. I think not. Some of the appendices were classified as ‘secret’ and were handled separately on a very restricted basis. Had the reporter accessed them I would have expected to see the information reflected in some way in the article. There is no such reflection.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1306/S00053/text-henry-report-into-leak-of-kitteridge-gcsb-report.htm
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August 7, 2013 9:23pm
Left Right and Centre

nasska 8:26 pm right on brother.

On the other end of the scale.. farmers who like to brag to all and sundry that their kids drove quads while still in nappies…

Just putting it out there…
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August 7, 2013 9:28pm
Pete George

Now, if you were to say that Dunne’s wife has told you that she’s seen all of the email correspondence between Dunne and Vance (some of which is not currently publicly-available information), then that’s potentially a different matter.

Dunne has gone over his story to me and others in person with his wife present and she openly and clearly supported what he said. And he has told me and others basically the same thing on another occasion with no discrepancies. And it was said that his wife has seen all of all of the email correspondence.
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August 7, 2013 9:29pm
Nostradamus

Pete:

Can I try and clear something up?

In an interview with Peters, Campbell quoted Henry “verbatim” as saying:

Campbell: Mr Peters, look, I can’t sit here and let you spout nonsense to me, absolutely, I’m going to read what David Henry said, verbatim quote.

“On the afternoon of 27th March Mr Dunne was given a numbered copy of the Kitteridge report” – which was going to be made public – “but not the classified appendices”.

Now, in your 9:23pm comment, Henry concludes that the 22 March 2013 version was leaked.

I’ve read somewhere that Dunne was on holiday between March 30 and April 7.

So, putting all of these pieces together, I’m not sure how you’ve concluded that Dunne is completely removed from the picture.
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August 7, 2013 9:34pm
graham

“On the contrary, that he considered the possibility of leaking but decided not to, but felt guilty enough for considering it to admit it and resign, makes me think he is not the sort of person likely to leak.”

No, this has been gone over time and again. Dunne did not resign simply because he considered leaking and had an attack of the guilts.
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August 7, 2013 10:00pm
publicwatchdog

FYI Kiwibloggers – especially Pete George 🙂

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1308/S00087/open-letter-to-independent-mp-peter-dunne-penny-bright.htm

Wednesday, 7 August 2013, 9:11 am
Press Release: Penny Bright
7 August 2013

‘Open Letter’ to ‘Independent’ MP Peter Dunne:
From Auckland Mayoral candidate Penny Bright:

“Why are you continuing to support the GCSB Bill”?

Dear Peter,

You didn’t like your private correspondence being surveilled, so please be consistent and do not support this GCSB legislation, which will allow spying on New Zealanders, which is not currently the case.

Are you aware of the following considered view of the New Zealand law Society?

Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 3:48 pm
Press Release: New Zealand Law Society
MEDIA RELEASE – For immediate use, 6 August 2013

GCSB Bill remains flawed despite proposed changes

Proposed changes to the GCSB Bill represent minor improvements but do not address the fundamental flaws in the bill and the legislation should not proceed, the New Zealand Law Society says.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1308/S00082/gcsb-bill-remains-flawed-despite-proposed-changes.htm

Please do NOT be a hypocrite?

Kind regards,

Penny Bright
‘Anti-privatisation /anti-corruption’ campaigner

2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?p=229
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August 8, 2013 1:27am
Manolo

Taunting a weakened Messiah: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/07/al-qaeda-claim-challenges-narrative-terror-group-on-run/
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August 8, 2013 5:57am
Pete George

Nostradamus – of course he is not completely out of the picture (neither is anyone who had access to the 35 hard copies).

Some points from the Henry report:

25.The news article was printed early on Tuesday 9 April and occupied the front page. Writing the article, and preparing the accompanying graphics, would have taken some hours and would have had to have been completed by the evening of 8 April. As a major scoop I think that both the writing and publication would have been given priority. On that basis I think that the reporter gained access to the report on Sunday 7 April or Monday 8 April, with the Monday being the most likely.

This is a narrow assumption by Henry. He doesn’t consider the possibility that Vance would have needed time to read the report, research it, contact people to verify and comment with various people (and Dunne has admitted discussing it by email), write it up, have editors check it etc etc. Henry has implied Dunne gave Vance a copy at midday on the Monday. That leaves a very short timeframe.

Dunne returned from holiday on the Sunday. Henry initially told Dunne that he thought Sunday was the most likely day it was leaked – until he was told that Vance was awy in the South Island for the weekend.

26. It is not possible to be definitive but it is likely that the report was provided directly to the reporter by the leaker.

Some people have claimed Dunne could have drip fed bits of the report to Vance via email. There wasn’t time for him to do this, and Henry thinks Vance had a full copy.

41.l requested the return of all copies. All but two have been recovered. I was advised that the two missing copies had been shredded: One copy had been returned to the Cabinet Office by a DPMC officer and shredded. The other had been held by a cabinet minister whose staff tell me had not accessed the report prior to the leak

Henry simply accepts their word that the copies were shredded and appears to have not investigated further.

59.For completeness I record that I had no access, nor did I seek any access, to private email providers or private telephones.

Any smart leaker would not have communicated via logged parliamentary comms, but Henry does not consider this or private meeting at all except for one Dunne-Vance meeting that Dunne says didn’t happen.

68.As part of that preparation the officer had the report at home over the weekend of 6 and 7 April. The report was not kept in a safe or locked cabinet at the home but the officer states that it remained in the officer’s possession at all times.

Henry takes the officer’s word for it, apparently without further investigation.

82.l remain of the view that I need to have full access to all eighty-six emails.

Henry was focused on Dunne and after the phone logs proved nothing and the security data proved nothing and after the photocopy and printer logs proved nothing he saw the emails as the proof, and we know he tried to access the email contents.

Natural justice

86. Mr Dunne has been provided with relevant extracts from drafts of this report and his comments have been taken into account.

No, Dunne’s comments – including strong denials – have been ignored. It’s very likely a travesty of justice has occurred.

Without Mr Dunne’s permission I cannot take the matter any further.

No, he cannot take the matter further with Dunne, for whom he has no evidence and adamant denials. He could have investigated other possibilities but chose not to. He was under tight time pressure which may have contributed to him doing a very narrow investigation.

This doesn’t rule out Dunne, but after extensive investigation of him no evidence was found.

It also doesn’t rule out many other possibilities that were barely considered or ignored.

All the accusations against Dunne have been lacking in facts and absent any evidence (as mikenmild demonstrates above) and seem to be mostly based on loose assumptions or through spite of Dunne and attempts to smear him.

There is body. There is no smoking gun. There isn’t even a gun. There is no evidence a gun was involved. Poison and knives appear to have no even been considered.

The investigation and deliberate accusation were nowhere near the standard of a police inquiry or standard of evidence in a legal case.

The investigation seems more along the lines of an IRD investigator who makes very narrow targeted investigations and who has the power to rake through any information they like when the target an individual. Except in this case an ex IRD officer didn’t have that power, but tried to use it anyway.
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August 8, 2013 6:01am
Manolo

The servile and sycophantic defense continues. Sigh.

On a different note: This can only be good for the United States, right? http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/08/07/Census-Non-English-Language-Use-has-Tripled
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August 8, 2013 6:06am
Pete George

Questions for Penny.

Have you read the GCSB legislation? Have you read the Key SOP of amendments? Have you read the Dunne SOP of amendments? Have you put the three together to see the likely form of the legislation?

The Law Society say they didn’t have time to consider Key’s amendments and don’t appear to have attempted to properly assess the Dunne amendments.
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August 8, 2013 6:08am
Nookin

The news media has led an offensive over the last week — trying to persuade us that they are our eyes and ears against wrong doing and should be placed on a pedestal. Appropriately, in my view it has been pointed out that if MSM wants respect, it has to earn it. Criticism has not come exclusively from the right. Fran O’Sullivan copped some flack for having the temerity to tweet a response to Helen Kelly’s graceless comments.

The failings of MSM are highlighted by the reporting of the Bain proceedings this week. Admittedly it was only an interlocutory application for further disclosure there was virtually no objective analysis. The Bain cause was extensively reported. E-mail from a PA was published. There was extensive criticism of the Crown (Collins in particular) and the word “biased” appeared frequently. The Crown responded the next day. I read a single report — not updated at any time. I have no doubt that MacDonald said a little more than it was inappropriate to engage in unprincipled rhetoric but the news media decided that we did not need to know what was else said.

The outcome was a completely lop-sided report of proceedings that, unfortunately for the justice system, and indeed justice in NZ is being assessed on emotive rhetoric and wholly unbalanced reporting
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August 8, 2013 7:09am
RRM

A couple of aging civil servants sitting near me on the train have just spent a whole HOUR having “a discussion around” project management and line management and policy focus and process focus and triaging our decision-making and whether our strategic policy direction enables that organisation to be effective in asking the right questions and knowing when we’re asking the right questions. And arranging another meeting next week “around” whether the current issues are about goal-setting or business focus.

An HOUR of this shit. 😐

I would slit my wrists if I had to work with these people.

I wonder if either of them will make anything of value, able to be sold for cash money today? I have my doubts..
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August 8, 2013 7:47am
Viking2

So who will be responsible for refunding the cash ripped off this scam. Councils via the poor old ratepayer ? AGAIN.
Hack puts credit cards at risk
CHRIS GARDNER
Last updated 05:00 08/08/2013

Share

Hundreds of parking machines used by thousands of motorists a week may be infected with a virus allowing hackers to harvest credit card numbers.

A compromised machine in Wilson Parking’s Alexandra St car park in Hamilton prompted security experts to warn motorists to check their credit card statements if they’ve recently used a machine at one of the company’s 276 car parks across the country.

Car Park Hack Puts Credit Cards At Risk _ Stuff.co.nz
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August 8, 2013 7:49am

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