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August 27, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 27 August 2013

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General Debate

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RF

Jack5. 9.51am. I have attended a Police shooting… Not as the shooter…. and believe that copper jacket projectiles are dangerous as they can be a through and through. If they do not hit bone. The projectile just keeps on going. Until it runs out of steam. Lead nose expands and safer for people behind the target.
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August 27, 2013 5:37pm
bereal

True Judith, however,
How many really BAD, sick examples of fleas get exposed in just one case ?

Davina Murray, Barry Hart, and the two flea lawyers who made submissions on
her behalf in the final day of her trial. (i can’t recall the names of those fleas
and can’t be bothered looking them up as they are just as waste of space as is
Davina and her mentor Barry Hart.)

PS Do not expect a comment on this judgement from fleas nickb or F E Smith.

Prove me wrong nickb or F E Smith.
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August 27, 2013 5:41pm
edhunter

With regards to young Polash the kiddy beater, why has it taken 3 yrs for this case to come to a conclusion?
And would his sentence have been so lenient if he’d pleaded guilty right from the get go I mean 2yrs 1 month for blinding & coursing brain damage appears a pretty lite sentence.
If this had been his sentence 2 1/2 years ago he’d have served his time in a youth facility & would be out now. Instead he’s about to start his stint now in probably a minimum securitiy prison but still a real prison.
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August 27, 2013 5:56pm
Kea

The police killed an innocent bystander you muppet. The police were acting on our behalf. The least we can do is provide financial support for the child who now lacks a father.

Weihana, the cops gunned down an innocent member of public and not even a charge was laid, because the cop claimed ” he did not mean to”.

Would the cops accept that explanation from anybody else and fail to even lay a charge ?

Like fuck they would ! They should have to pay millions and set that family up for life. It can come out of their salary budget, or better yet, their firearms budget.
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August 27, 2013 6:02pm
bereal

There was a hyped up armed offender cop.\, probably his first real
deployment.

The cop had a 223 bushmaster that could kill at a mile or more.

i don’t know if he was looking thru a telescopic sight or not, probably was. But.

When you sight thru a telescopic sight, if the subject is within , say 50 yards
everthing is distorted , and Buck Fever took over.

How else can you explain how a trained professional shoots the wrong guy
from one side of a motorway to another ? 100 yards ?

Wrong man in the wrong job.
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August 27, 2013 6:15pm
nickb

Good to see “Rambo” bereal dishing out his expert advice on killing people in the heat of the moment.

You know how the saying goes.

We sleep soundly in our beds because bereal stands ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
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August 27, 2013 6:19pm
nickb

Prove me wrong nickb or F E Smith.

Do you seriously expect me to defend these people? They are both sleazy dirtbags and should be locked up.
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August 27, 2013 6:21pm
Viking2

Fonterra hikes forecast payout
By Jamie Gray
3:15 PM Tuesday Aug 27, 2013

Fonterra says the higher farmgate milk price reflects continuing strong international prices for dairy.

Fonterra has raised its forecast farmgate milk price for the 2014 season by 30 cents a kg of milk solids to $7.80 per kg.

The increase, along with a previously-announced estimated dividend of 32 cents per share, amounts to a forecast cash payout to Fonterra’s dairy farmers of $8.12.

===========================
So thats fucked Labour and probably many of the banks.
With that dosh coming home the banks will be breaking their arses to lend.
Lower interest rates on the way.
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August 27, 2013 6:26pm
bereal

Oh, so there you are nickb,

Lurking, all day, every day.
. Billing up your hours to the silly drongs
who are oblivious that you are just a flea bludger.

Wanna try and make a serious reply to my post @ 5.41 calling you and others of your ilk out ?
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August 27, 2013 6:26pm
Kea

How else can you explain how a trained professional shoots the wrong guy
from one side of a motorway to another ? 100 yards ?

bereal, maybe he was the right colour so he took the shot ? I suspect that was part of it.

I know it was an accident. But what annoys me is the double standard. Look what happens when some poor bugger accidentally shoots someone when out possuming or something. The cops do not accept the “it was an accident” defense then.
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August 27, 2013 6:29pm
nickb

Wanna try and make a serious reply to my post @ 5.41 calling you and others of your ilk out ?

Bit pompous to say you are “calling me out”, don’t you think? That would imply you have something specific in mind, rather than just being on another bender.
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August 27, 2013 6:37pm
Colville

bereal @ 6.15

Have you ever fired a rifle?

Why would anything be distorted?
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August 27, 2013 6:51pm
bereal

hey nickb

did you see the recent study of the poor sad sacks that live on their own in
tiny appartments like you ?

Seems these poor drongs invent imaginary girlfriends.

They are very super sensitive to critiscism.

They imagine they have a job, even when it is their Daddy that pays their rent and their bills.

They lurk on the internet, all day every day because…..

That’s all they have.

Poor sods. So sad.
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August 27, 2013 6:53pm
flipper

To revert to the poor unfortunate who was shot….

The ACC act allows (gross negligence without due care, etc) his family to screw the Police for zillions – if he had been a Todd, Myers, Gibbs, Hart or Jones.
But to chase that down one would have needed their deep pockets. It is that injustice that makes Collins a bully and cheapskate. Police were aware of that and short changed this innocent family.
I repeat: Collins should resign her Justice portfolio.
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August 27, 2013 6:58pm
bereal

Well it seems that Davina and Barry have at least 4 fans, see 5.41

Wel,l two would account for nickb and F E Smith.

But the other two, go figure.
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August 27, 2013 7:00pm
nickb

What’s your point beryl? You have more posts than me in half the time. Maybe its you that needs to get out and see the fresh air?

And come on, I don’t call you a murderer just because other alcoholics cause car crashes.
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August 27, 2013 7:03pm
bereal

the point is to goad a prig like you nickb.

Get it babe ?
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August 27, 2013 7:05pm
nickb

I have to agree with the people who think compensation for the family would be higher.

I would have thought the main aim of the compensation, in the purely financially compensatory sense (i.e. apart from any which was paid for hurt, emotional distress etc) would be linked to the victim’s future earnings which will be foregone as a result of his death.

Even given he was probably on an average wage $225,000 seems on the low side. I would have thought $500,000+ would be more appropriate (although that figure is completely pulled out of my arse with little scientific analysis).

In saying that you would think at the least you would be wanting the spouse and kids to have a decent home bought for them given the main breadwinner has been killed by an arm of the state.
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August 27, 2013 7:07pm
nickb

In that case you are succeeding in goading me beryl, well done. I am saddened beyond words to think some fat fuck alcoholic keyboard warrior I have never met thinks ill of me.
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August 27, 2013 7:08pm
Kea

bereal @ 6.15

Have you ever fired a rifle?

Why would anything be distorted?

Colville, you need to try shooting after drinking as much as bereal 🙂
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August 27, 2013 7:17pm
Jack5

The team of TV3’s Mr Gush – John Campbell – was sneering at the concept of moral hazard tonight when covering the dispute about how much the Government should offer uninsured Christchurch quake victims.

Careful, Campbell. There’s a bit of moral hazard in the failure of TV3’s owner, MediaWorks. and the matter of lost tax. At one stage this was said to be $22 million. This seemingly wasn’t paid in the clear-up after the crash. Earlier, the Government lent MediaWorks more than $43 million to keep it afloat during the global financial crash.

If MediaWorks, including TV3 paid it’s way, the money would be sufficient to help some of the people Campbell and his team are bleating about and calling for the Government to “show compassion”.

It is moral hazard if uninsured people get the same payout as insured people. It’s moral hazard if media companies can act as though their taxes can be wiped in any trouble.
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August 27, 2013 7:20pm
F E Smith

I’ve just got back from the gym, so haven’t been aware of what beryl was vomiting up today.

However, I echo Nick in saying that I think that Davina Murray did was appalling. Defending it in the way she has also does her no credit at all.

I also think that beryl is an obnoxious and offensive commenter whose attempts at baiting Nick and myself are absolutely pathetic.
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August 27, 2013 7:27pm
Griff

FMJ military round compared to law enforcement hollow point
FFS I use hollow points in my air gun because I was sick of bunnies running away after though and thoughs with hard point slugs. Since changing its great the fuckers just keel over when I hit them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8hbkXPdlks
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August 27, 2013 7:30pm
Chuck Bird

i could have run a better deference for Murray than herself with her doggy lawyer mate trying to help her. She just had to admitting she acted inappropriately when she was alone with the rapist and as she was so distracted she did not notice him stealing the items from her purse. No one would have believed her but that would have been enough to create a reasonable doubt.
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August 27, 2013 7:36pm
Pauleastbay

Just flicked through the channels and found Bear ” I’ll drink my own Piss” Grylls in New Zealand on the discovery channel

he has just jumped off a perfectly good boat in the Wanganui river to head North to save himself and for some reason climbs Ruapehu, much easier I would have thought to steal a car at Ratahei. I wonder why I watch 2 hours TV a week, back to the music
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August 27, 2013 7:53pm
Pauleastbay

bereal

I thought you were going to stop commenting when you were pissed?

It was a really good plan
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August 27, 2013 7:54pm
nasska

HEADLINES FROM THE YEAR 2030

Ozone created by electric cars now killing millions
in the seventh largest country in the world “Little Pakistan”
formerly known as Australia .

Tasmania, Australia’s southern land state, executes last
remaining Greenie.

White minorities still trying to have English recognised
as Australia’s third language.

Children from two-parent heterosexual families bullied in
schools for being ‘different’. Tolerance urged.

Gay Marriages now overtake heterosexual marriages as
preferred ‘lifestyle’ choice.

Melbourne schoolgirl expelled for not wearing Burqa:
Being a Christian is no excuse says school. Sharia
law must be enforced.
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August 27, 2013 8:00pm
Kea

Griff @ 7:30

The temporary wound cavity you see on the slow motion camera looks impressive, but is not the deciding factor in lethality. The permanent wound cavity is.

If you have two projectiles of equal energy they will make a wound cavity of equal volume. This is regardless of projectile construction. If you filled the cavities with water, you would find equal amounts in both.

However the shape of the cavity will differ. An expanded or fragmented round will have a different structure that is typically more shallow. The more solid projectile will have a longer deeper wound cavity. The problem with solid projectiles is they exit before releasing all their energy. If they stayed in the target the wound cavity would be identical in volume.

If you have two projectiles of equal energy strike a target and one is light and fast, while the other is slow and heavy, then you get the same thing. The fast light one makes a shallow wound while the heavy slow one a deeper wound. But if they have the same energy, the total wound cavity will be the same. Always.
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August 27, 2013 8:32pm
UglyTruth

Police were aware of that and short changed this innocent family.

Arguably the police are criminally responsible for his death because of their false report of McDonald shooting at staff on the Great North road. In the IPCA report McDonald only shot at the police helicopter.
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August 27, 2013 8:59pm
Nookin

“The ACC act allows (gross negligence without due care, etc) his family to screw the Police for zillions – if he had been a Todd, Myers, Gibbs, Hart or Jones.”

Have you got any authority or precedent for that assertion? Is Collins the Minister in charge of ACC?
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August 27, 2013 9:04pm
Nostalgia-NZ

‘If you have two projectiles of equal energy strike a target and one is light and fast, while the other is slow and heavy, then you get the same thing. The fast light one makes a shallow wound while the heavy slow one a deeper wound. But if they have the same energy, the total wound cavity will be the same. Always’

Drrh.
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August 27, 2013 9:07pm
Nostalgia-NZ

‘In the IPCA report McDonald only shot at the police helicopter’

I don’t think there was time to decide what the gunman was ‘only’ shooting at UT, he was a complete danger.
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August 27, 2013 9:21pm
Griff

If you have two projectiles of equal energy they will make a wound cavity of equal volume. This is regardless of projectile construction. If you filled the cavities with water, you would find equal amounts in both.

:lol:The deformation of the round itself will absorb some of the energy . So no your theory is imposable unless no extra energy goes into deforming the metal slug as apposed to destroying flesh .All else being equal the fmj will make a bigger volume wound with less energy absorbed in deforming the slug and more to displace flesh provided it stays within the body.

If you shoot something and the wound path is narrow from a fmj like round even with out a though and though the fuckers can and do run away only to die slowly days later of a festering wound. Shoot it with an expanding round and the bigger diameter wound stops the fucker dead or it bleeds out quickly much more humane . Since going hollow point I have yet to have a bunny hit run away. using standard slugs or wad cutters they would often run to far to locate. head shots help but its not easy to hit a bunny head at fifty meters with a hp slug gun spring impact recoil is wicked and I really really hate the fuckers the only good bunny is a dead bunny.
http://www.crosman.com/gear/ammo/LHP77 and the local shop up north has them for ten bucks a tin always good for a broken arsed lazy bugger like me.
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August 27, 2013 9:33pm
Kea

“Drrh.”

Well you would be surprised how many people can not accept the laws of physics. Experienced hunters are the worst of the lot. The [non] issue of “hydraulic shock” is another big one. People got limbs cut off unnecessarily and viable tissue excised when even the medical profession got sucked into the theory, this in spite of the contrary evidence presented by many thousands of gunshot wounds in the field.

It all started with the advent of high speed cameras filming gun shot wounds and the observation of the dramatic extension of tissue from the temporary wound cavity. A few equations scribbled on the back of a cigarette packed would have shown it was nothing to worry about.
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August 27, 2013 9:34pm
Pauleastbay

Fuck kea

Drrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

and boring as all fuck as well are you from Dunedin??????????????????
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August 27, 2013 9:45pm
Kea

Griff, actually you have a good point regarding deformation of the projectile. However, it is a minor effect. I wish it was “my theory” but it is basic physics, proven countless times with empirical evidence. There is a big Nobel Prize waiting for you if you can prove it wrong. But otherwise I agree.

You are reading more into my comment than what was said. I do not think a solid projectile is in anyway equivalent in lethality on our small thin skinned animals. Or on people. (Yes I know about military solids tumbling). But if a bunnies vital organs were a foot thick, it would be a different story. All of the solid slugs energy would do work inside the vitals and have the some wound cavity as the expanding slug.
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August 27, 2013 9:48pm
UglyTruth

I don’t think there was time to decide what the gunman was ‘only’ shooting at UT, he was a complete danger.

McDonald wasn’t a “complete danger”, his initial strategy was to avoid contact with police. The danger to the public from his driving was a product of that strategy and police escalation that occurred after he had shown that he had a gun. The police escalation was dependant upon him being deemed to be an offender when he had not acted in a way that was a threat to the public.

Basically the police crossed the line and an innocent man died as a result of that. They crossed the line not out of malice but because of a corrupt system which denies the natural right of a man to be left alone.
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August 27, 2013 9:48pm
Kea

Pauleastbay, try watching porn or not reading my comments 😉

http://www.redtube.com/
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August 27, 2013 9:49pm
Pauleastbay

Talk of Nobel prizes at 9.45 pm . dear me
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August 27, 2013 9:57pm
Fletch

Onion from 2008 warning that Miley Cyrus will be depleted by 2013…lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOgj2etJs3Y

It was sarcasm, but they were right.
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August 27, 2013 10:00pm
bereal

i just got back from taking a crap and wonder

how is it that a poor pissed idiot like me can wind up such great brians as nickb
and Fe Smith and Pebay and have them jumping through hoops,

before i even wiped my arse.

Is it because they are full of it ?
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August 27, 2013 10:24pm
Griff

Hic
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August 27, 2013 10:52pm

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