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August 24, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 August 2013

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General Debate

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Kea

Fuck off troll. Kowtow is dead right about you.

I am reassured that I do not meet with the approval of the two most bitter and divisive people on KB. The authoritarian and intolerant future you prefer is unappealing to intelligent happy people. Po faced God infected zealots are not going to rise up out of the fringes of our society and run NZ. Ever.

I know that makes you very very very angry 🙂
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August 24, 2013 1:33pm
bhudson

If you went to one hundred doctors and ninety seven after considerable research said you had cancer three said wildly different things Anything but cancer you would

Go with whichever one was right – neither facts, nor science are determined by popular vote.
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August 24, 2013 1:33pm
ChrisM

Griff
You are really obtuse, rather than just agenda driven, aren’t you
.
Your quote included the words:
“We never imagined we would be on a fire of a half million acres in the lower 48,” said Oltrogge. “Now they’re becoming commonplace.”
The fire I referenced was 3 million acres.
To rephrase what I said earlier but in words of single syllable so I hope you can understand, the US Forest Service now have a new policy. It is called “let it burn”. In fact they actually go around deliberately lighting fires to reduce the fire loading. Some of these do get out of control.
Berry gives a good summary of the history of fire suppression and why it doesn’t work. http://www.isnie.org/assets/files/papers2007/berry.pdf
Even Wikipedia knows it has changed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_wildfire_suppression_in_the_United_States
And look at the graph in this paper of wildfires.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070810191055/http://www.nifc.gov/fire_policy/docs/chp1.pdf

Against this, you have a few anecdotes.
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August 24, 2013 1:35pm
Redbaiter

One does not have to be a Christian to hold attention seeking self obsessed trolls in contempt.
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August 24, 2013 1:35pm
Paulus

Where is Wussel and his little fat wahine – they have been very quiet since they found out in Parliament that David Shearer had a private meeting with the Prime Minister. Wusssle face was apoplectic when he heard this.
History tell us such meetings are very regular and quite normal between leader of the Opposition and the PM.
Ask Helen C – she has confirmed such in the Nelson paper.
It is believed that Wussel immediately made it clear to Grunty, and other fellow fellows!, like Marion Street, who they woke up, that they would have nothing to do with Labour unless Shearer went, and he got his way.
Mind you suited Grunty as he could blame somebody else.
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August 24, 2013 1:40pm
kowtow

Thank you Red.
I note yesterday troll kea went to great and very boring lengths re the cassette to have a go at you and yet today he tries to engage you re his feminist obsession .

As you say he’s an attention seeking troll.
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August 24, 2013 1:46pm
Viking2

A young blonde was on vacation in the depths of Louisiana. She wanted a pair of genuine alligator shoes in the worst way, but was very reluctant to pay the high prices the local vendors were asking.

After becoming very frustrated with the “no haggle” attitude of one of the shopkeepers, the blonde shouted, “Maybe I’ll just go out and catch my own alligator so I can get a pair of shoes at a reasonable price!” The shopkeeper said, “By all means, be my guest. Maybe you’ll luck out and catch yourself a big one!” Determined, the blonde turned and headed for the swamps, set on catching herself an alligator.

Later in the day, the shopkeeper is driving home, when he spots the young woman standing waist deep in the water, shotgun in hand. Just then, he sees a huge 9 foot alligator swimming quickly toward her. She takes aim, kills the creature and with a great deal of effort hauls it on to the swamp bank. Lying nearby were several more of the dead creatures. The shopkeeper watches in amazement. Just then the blonde flips the alligator on its back, and frustrated, shouts out, “Damn it, this one isn’t wearing any shoes either!”
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August 24, 2013 1:47pm
Redbaiter

Kowtow-

His comment (1:27) shows he didn’t even read or absorb the points made in my own comment, ie the difference between being homosexual and promoting homosexualism, wherein I stated quite clearly that not all homosexuals are homosexualists. Just a time wasting fuckwit.
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August 24, 2013 1:49pm
Pauleastbay

Just walked up Queen Street – accosted by – Muslims, Hare Krishna’s, Asian Christians , its not the beggars that are annoying me on Saturday mornings ,its these bloody religions. If they are so shit hot, why do they need to be pestering people who just want to support local business’s?
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August 24, 2013 1:56pm
Pauleastbay

and

Who is Emmet Hussey?

he is standing for mayor but who ever authorised the photo that is out on his bill boards needs rogered by a gorilla. They make the poor man look like a prisoner awaiting execution.
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August 24, 2013 1:58pm
nickb

Feel sorry for you Paul. Isn’t it disgusting? Vomit everywhere, rag-tag people sitting on the pavement outside most shops, drunks, the list goes on. Could be the main street of Huntly on a Friday night. And to think this is the entry destination for so many people on cruises etc..
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August 24, 2013 1:59pm
Pauleastbay

you’re right nick, its meant to be the main street, its pretty tatty and its only gets worse as the day goes on. My big bug bear is you never see any police there , they appear not to walk the beat anymore.
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August 24, 2013 2:06pm
nickb

My big bug bear is you never see any police there , they appear not to walk the beat anymore.

Agreed. To make things worse they closed the police station on Fort Street, which was a ridiculous idea – as it seems to be the epicentre for most of the drunk and disorderly behaviour. Oh well. Lenny has his nice lifestyle block outside of the unitary plan and away from all this behaviour (with a nice sound system on his council credit card?) so, you know, out of sight out of mind. Don’t worry about the apartment dwellers.

To think Auckland is named the world’s most liveable city on a consistent basis I always find amusing given the state of the CBD…. it really is a shithole in places
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August 24, 2013 2:10pm
Griff

I would say it is you who are agenda driven.
Read the paper I posted by Henson etal in 1981
Griff (5,646) Says:
August 24th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
Then come back and explain why you think the present heat drought, climate change and fires are not linked.

Or this I always find the conclusions of links interesting if I think someone may be spinning parrot shit.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070810191055/http://www.nifc.gov/fire_policy/docs/chp1.pdf

More acres burned in 2000 than in any other year in the last half-century. By mid-
December, approximately 4.8 million acres had been burned by wildland fires and 1.0
million acres by prescribed fires on federal lands alone.
With a better understanding of the magnitude of the fire management problem,
the federal land management agencies are now planning aggressive actions to
mitigate the situation. The USDA Forest Service has proposed fuels management
treatments (prescribed fire and mechanical) of up to 3 million acres annually.
This led to more maintenance particular at the suburban Forrest changing interface.
http://www.doi.gov/ppa/upload/Wildland_fire_literature_review_060812FINAL.pdf
Related to the WUI issue is the
growing federal share of funding for WUI fire protections. The CRS pointed out that while the
policy in the 1980’s and early 1990’s was to cut fire assistance funding for state a
nd volunteer fire organizations , such funding more than tripled in 2001, rising from $27 million to $91 million, due to
increased federal funding under the National Fire Plan, and peaked at $314 million in FY 2009, with
funding from the American Recovery a and Reinvestment Act.

You are habitual user of ancient history to confuse the reality of out of control destructive modern fires.
The usa has made a huge ongoing effort to prevent out of control conflagrations. In my youth smoky the bear was a house hold name. They have got far better than rangers in towers and men with shovels since the sixty’s.
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August 24, 2013 2:15pm
Redbaiter

“its not the beggars that are annoying me on Saturday mornings ,its these bloody religions.”

Sounds to me more like you’ve got a problem with multiculturalism. Funny seeing its your kind that have foisted it upon us.
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August 24, 2013 2:18pm
kowtow

yeah if they offend him so much he just doesn’t have to look.

at least that’s what they’re always telling us “intolerant rednecks”.

goose gander.
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August 24, 2013 2:23pm
TheContrarian

@Redbaiter.

You’re a big Ted Cruz fan. We get it but, wait one second…by your own definition he is not eligible.

http://truebluenz.com/2011/04/28/pic-obama-long-form-birth-certificate/

Quote:
“Note Father’s place of birth. Kenya, not America. Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen and therefore not eligible to be President.”

Cruz was born in Canada to a father who was born in Cuba. Argue yourself out of this one and stay fashionable, buddy.
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August 24, 2013 2:25pm
Pauleastbay

No Red, multiculturalism has been the best thing to happen to Auckland, woken it up and made it more interesting.

My point is I walked past thousands of all different cultures this morning but it was only the religious pests who were rude enough to step in front of me and interrupt conversations with my daughter.
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August 24, 2013 2:26pm
Redbaiter

“Argue yourself out of this one”

Its not my job to argue that. The onus in refuting that lies with all of the so called right who have for so long claimed Obama’s birth place was not an issue. Their cowardice has come back to bite them on the arse.
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August 24, 2013 2:33pm
Redbaiter

“No Red, multiculturalism has been the best thing to happen to Auckland, woken it up and made it more interesting.”

Bullshit.

I see no value in diluting one of the world’s most developed and refined cultures by mixing it with inferior and or sub-cultures.

You might, because you’re a Progressive reactionary rather than an independent thinker.

Show me you know what you’re talking about. Explain to me the difference between multi-ethnic and multi-cultural.
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August 24, 2013 2:37pm
TheContrarian

No Red. You cannot claim Obama is ineligible while stumping for Cruz.
They are either both eligible or both ineligible. Which is it?
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August 24, 2013 2:39pm
Redbaiter

Contrarian, you’re a time wasting idiot and I have no interest in rising to your simpleton challenges-

Just this once, if I accept your dopey claims, then they are easily answered by saying Cruz can be Vice President with Sarah President.

As for Brokeback Obama, its always been known that his mother was an American. Why are you talking as if it is fresh news?

The argument against your prognosis has been interminably discussed, and if you were half up to speed you would know that. The theory is that Stanley Dunham was too young to bestow US citizenship on her foreign born offspring. Apparently there is/was an age limit. Now fuck off please.
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August 24, 2013 2:48pm
Pauleastbay

@Red
one of the world’s most developed and refined cultures by mixing it with inferior and or sub-cultures.

Sorry, what?

I know you are a raving loony but even for you that comment is drivel, that is the comment of a person so fucking stupid he should be not be allowed near a computer to comment on a public forum.

New Zealand is a great country but it has been populated by the flotsam and jetsam of the rest of the world from day one, . If a retard like you thinks you are of some superior stock to anyone else walking our streets you are not only deluded but a total prick to boot.

and Red if you have ever had an independent thought in your entire life I would be most surprised , you paste crap from other loons and think of yourself as some intellectual, you’re not ,you’re a sad fuck living in Tauranga.
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August 24, 2013 2:49pm
TheContrarian

So Red, is Cruz, in your opinion, eligible to be president yes/no?

“Just this once, if I accept your dopey claims”
No, Red. They are your own words. Not my ‘claims’, I am using your own words. You said Obama does not qualify to be president. By your own logic neither does Cruz.
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August 24, 2013 2:51pm
Redbaiter

Hey Paula, I already know well enough your uninteresting opinion of Redbaiter.

I asked if you appreciated the difference between multi-ethnic and multi-cultural.

Clearly that’s a negative.
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August 24, 2013 2:58pm
Pauleastbay

I appreciate that you are a complete tosser Red, the saddest man on the internet, you are tragic – one of the world’s most developed and refined cultures…… – FFS
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August 24, 2013 3:01pm
Redbaiter

Yes yes Paula, “all cultures are equal” right?

As I said, a Progressive reactionary.
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August 24, 2013 3:05pm
Griff

Sarah President.
The Alaskan milf with the stunning head of air
Is that what you call her red ?
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000449979/polls_blow_up_doll_5617_941141_answer_3.jpeg
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August 24, 2013 3:06pm
Kea

I see no value in diluting one of the world’s most developed and refined cultures by mixing it with inferior and or sub-cultures.

There are a number of Maori who agree with Red on that.

Why anyone would allow ignorant English rabble into the country, when we have so many Chinese and other higher cultures wanting to come here, is beyond me. (I was going to make a short list of all the things the Chinese invented, while the Brits were still illiterate primitives dressed in rotting animal skins, but the post would put Penny to shame.)

The only thing that dragged the Brits out of their ignorance were the successive invasions from higher cultures. Unfortunately [for the Brits] the Romans went and visted the rellies and decided to adopt one of their gods. The trouble is they took this childs fable way too seriously and imposed it on the retarded oafs of England. The rest is history.
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August 24, 2013 3:08pm
Redbaiter

There you go Paula, you’ve got a supporter in one of the forum’s Arab trolls. You can aid him in slandering the base culture that made NZ the place he or his parents wanted to come to, to escape their own culture.
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August 24, 2013 3:15pm
bereal

Flea lawyer ‘ nickb’ states on GD 6.16pm, 20th August in an extended rant that,
“It is beyond me why anyone would take on legal aid work given the
derisory rate of pay and …..etc, etc”

This is in keeping with the sentiment from his mentor F E Smith that he (Smith) never
takes apeal cases because, “There is no money in it.”

The people of New Zealand are blessed that this mecenary attitude is not
reflected among all defense lawyers.

Some do take on a percentage of legal aid cases as they see it as a duty and a civic service.

(Kinda like others of us may donate to a charity.)

nickb and F E Smith would be oblivious to such a sentiment.
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August 24, 2013 3:19pm
Kea

“in one of the forum’s Arab trolls”

I think that is Red’s reference to my Middle Eastern roots. You know… where Christianity and Judaism came from. That place 🙂
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August 24, 2013 3:22pm
Griff

Every village has its idiot red. we have kea.
Its the same as futile grumpy old men who give themselves ticks and take part in other public wankings.
You have to have one of those as well ……… 😆
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August 24, 2013 3:23pm
Kea

bereal, next time your in Court, you can show lawyers what you think of them by representing yourself. Tell us how you do when you get out.
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August 24, 2013 3:24pm
thedavincimode

eastbay

Cut him some slack. After all, you would have turned out differently if your flat mates had done this sort of thing to you Life is cruel
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August 24, 2013 3:25pm
Kea

Griff (5,649) Says:
August 24th, 2013 at 3:23 pm
Every village has its idiot red

Oh gosh HOW CUTE ! 🙂

The climate fascist is cuddling up to the ordinary fascist. I hope you boys are using condoms.
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August 24, 2013 3:27pm
Redbaiter

The key feature of European/ Judeo / Christian civilisation was an innate respect for the individual, a spiritual respect that was supported by a vastly superior legal and political framework. Most other cultures are based upon collectivist principles.
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August 24, 2013 3:28pm
bereal

Kea,
you missed the point completely mate. (now there is a big suprise to everyone)

There would be no legal aid lawyers at all if they were all of the ilk of nickb or FE.

PS. Is there any subject under the sun that you are NOT an expert on Kea ?
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August 24, 2013 3:29pm
Kea

Redbaiter & kowtow, can we have the Enlightment back please ? You know… the thing you got after your lumpen ~~incestors~~ ancestors got after visiting the Middle East. You can keep the religion you took, from the Middle East, though.
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August 24, 2013 3:30pm
Redbaiter

So how many European “refugees” are on boats heading for Africa or Arabia again?
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August 24, 2013 3:34pm
thedavincimode

respect for the individual, a spiritual respect

This is a good example of El Guava’s perennial problem. He promises much and then lets himself down. Just like when he’s down on the wharves: El Guava’s allure fails to deliver
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August 24, 2013 3:35pm
Kea

The key feature of European/ Judeo / Christian civilisation…

See that trick folks ? 🙂

1. Europeans came from Europe.

2. Judaism from the Middle East.

3. Christianity from the Middle East.

The Europeans were one of last major cultural groups to develop writing. The people of the Middle East, India and Asia, all did it long before. The Europeans were quick to see the advantages of these higher cultures and even adopted their Gods ! It shows you what a cultural backwater Europe must have been !
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August 24, 2013 3:37pm
nickb

There would be no legal aid lawyers at all if they were all of the ilk of nickb or FE.

Look, its (hic) bereal! (in the words of the late, great philu).

This is in keeping with the sentiment from his mentor F E Smith that he (Smith) never
takes apeal cases because, “There is no money in it.”

You were already called out on that lie and had nothing to back it up with. Are you a used car salesman? You realise lawyers still rank ahead of them in the honesty stakes buddy?
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August 24, 2013 3:40pm
Redbaiter

Oh, The Davaselinemode is here, and as usual, all he can contribute to the argument is a wave of his perennially limp wrist.

All we need now is Narsekissa with his jar of vaseline.
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August 24, 2013 3:41pm
Kea

So how many European “refugees” are on boats heading for Africa or Arabia again?

Red, millions and millions. They usually catch planes, though they do have cruise ships as well. They even have a huge international air hub there. You may have heard of Dubai.

You probably need to update your reference books Red. They don’t ride around on camels now days, anymore than you still walk alongside your masters ox-cart.
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August 24, 2013 3:43pm
thedavincimode

This vaseline thing Russell. It always seems to be the first thing you reach for. Habit?
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August 24, 2013 3:45pm
wat dabney

Oh dear Griff.

Again your childish, attention-seeking posts serve only to expose your complete ignorance of the subject.

That humans affect climate in a great many ways is not in the least controversial. Indeed, the latest is that the clean-air legislation towards the end of the last century accounted for a significant amount of the measured warming (warming which then stopped again once this effect had taken full effect.)

That is all that the 97% figure represents.

For you to imagine that this figure somehow relates to the catastrophic global warming scenario is not a surprise to anyone who has witnessed your abject cluelessness.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/07/28/on-the-97-percenters-you-must-admit-they-were-careful
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August 24, 2013 3:47pm
Redbaiter

“You may have heard of Dubai.”

Yep, its the place the Arabs built with the royalties from the oil the Europeans discovered after the Arabs had been sitting on it for centuries.
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August 24, 2013 3:48pm
Redbaiter

Go away Kevin, I’m trying to deal with a couple of arguments here and I have no interest in your girlish narcissistic asides.

Can’t you take it to facebook or some other such juvenile place?
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August 24, 2013 3:51pm
thedavincimode

Easy on beryl nick. He’s got a bit of a sore head today.

Beryl’s big night out

You can imagine how desperate he was to get to bed after a night like that: Sleep … must sleep …
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August 24, 2013 3:52pm
Kea

Red & kowtow are not great readers [don’t judge them, it is not in their genes] so seem unaware that the only reason the Pagan Brits became Christian, was due to Romans imposing it on them. If the famously quirky Romans had decided to impose something else on their grovelling Brit subjects, then that would be the cult followed today. Sadly the unlucky Brits got stuck with one of the worst spiritual cults in the past 3000 years.
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August 24, 2013 3:54pm
thedavincimode

It’s a legitimate question Russell. You are fixated with homosexuality, vaseline and anal sex. Why is that?
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August 24, 2013 3:55pm
Redbaiter

“Why is that?”

As usual Kevin, it wasn’t mentioned at all until you showed up. Can’t you Progressive queers ever think of anything better than accusing your critics of homosexuality themselves? So old and tired, not to mention cowardly.

Now fuck off please and let me deal with the people here who have something to say.
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August 24, 2013 3:58pm
Kea

“You may have heard of Dubai.”

Yep, its the place the Arabs built with the royalties from the oil the Europeans discovered after the Arabs had been sitting on it for centuries

Red, there was not much point in pumping the filthy stuff out of the ground before there was a use for it, now was there ?

The clever people of the region sat around eating dates and entertaining their harems, while the European Barbarians set to work with the maths and writing they had been given. After many years they came up with something that could not travel ten meters across a sand dune, and the Arabs sat back and watched the money pour in. Now they could afford Caviar and Truffles with their dates, and increase the size of their harems.

And what did those kindly Arabs do for their Barbarian friends ? They gave them an Oil addiction and a primitive ignorant prototype religion that they were not using anyway. LOL 🙂
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August 24, 2013 4:04pm
Griff

wat dabney (2,912) Says:
August 24th, 2013 at 3:47

😆
Wngnut blog link again in support of your wingnut theory’s

Attention seeking no I just like calling fuckwits and their conspicy theory’s for what they are stupid.

A Watts has zero creditability. You your self have proven this with your links to his site so easily proven bullshit.

BESTed

In March of 2011, Anthony Watts appeared to stake his entire stance on the reliability of surface temperature data on a single upcoming study: the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature Study (BEST), an independent temperature record to be constructed using over 39,000 unique stations. On March 6th, Watts said on his blog:
… I’m prepared to accept whatever result they produce, even if it proves my premise wrong. I’m taking this bold step because the method has promise. So let’s not pay attention to the little yippers who want to tear it down before they even see the results.
However, when BEST’s results confirmed the reliability of preexisting surface temperature records, Watts backpedaled.Apparently, he was only willing to stake his claims on an independent study if it came to the conclusion he wanted.
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August 24, 2013 4:06pm
Kea

Griff, you are such a dag. I asked if you disagreed with the top climate scientist ? As usual when put on the spot, you went all quiet and came back later ranting about a forest fire.

1. Do you know more than this guy ?

Top Swedish Climate Scientist Lennart Bengtsson Says Warming So Small, Not Noticeable Without Meteorologists!

We Are Creating Great Anxiety Without It Being Justified…there are no indications that the warming is so severe that we need to panic.

‘The warming we have had the last a 100 years is so small that if we didn’t have had meteorologists and climatologists to measure it we wouldn’t have noticed it at all.’

The Earth appears to have cooling properties that exceeds the previous thought ones, and that computer models are inadequate to try to foretell a chaotic object like the climate, where actual observations is the only way to go.”
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August 24, 2013 4:14pm
thedavincimode

it wasn’t mentioned at all until you showed up

No. So why did you say it? What is it about you that makes you call people who think you are an obnoxious narcissistic hypocritical and vainglorious old bag of wind queers and homos and in the same moment conjures up visions of vaseline and anal sex? And why do you accuse people of being cowards. You assail those who disagree with you with abuse and bigoted denigration under the cover of a nome de plume. But when accusing others of cowardice you are, by inference, asserting a degree of courage and principled behaviour on your own part.
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August 24, 2013 4:18pm
Kea

[A prophetic voice in Jewish, multireligious, and American life]

Imposing “sharia” — Roman Catholic version

Rabbi Arthur Waskow

During the last few weeks (February 2012), we have seen an outrageous attempt to impose
sharia law on the US government and the American public.

NOT Muslim sharia; it is Roman Catholic “sharia” about contraception that the US Conference of Catholic Bishops has been trying to impose on Americans of all faiths and beliefs who happen to work at a Catholic-sponsored hospital or university

Have Muslims been campaigning to impose sharia law on US courts? NO!

https://theshalomcenter.org/content/imposing-sharia-roman-catholic-version
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August 24, 2013 4:18pm
Redbaiter

I was talking about western culture and you showed up with instantaneous references to homosexual graphics.

Look, I already know what your opinion of Redbaiter is, and I don’t care. Get it?

For the third fucking time, if all you got is hysterical womanish bullshit then please go away and bore someone else.
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August 24, 2013 4:22pm
wat dabney

Oh dear Griff.

Those smiley faces really do signify your extreme immaturity don’t they.

For a grown man to post at the level of a giggling schoolgirl is just tragic.

As has been explained to you before it doesn’t matter who cites particular evidence or data, all that matters is its veracity.
Thus, for example, when a sceptical website demonstrates using official data that a wholly false warming trend has been added to the surface temperature record then all that matters is whether the citation is accurate.

For you to suppose that such evidence can be dismissed merely because you disagree with the person citing the data is a fallacy that not even a ten year-old would commit; and yet you make it all the time.

This particular fallacy probably has a proper name (it’s really just ad hominem), but from now on we shall refer to it as the Griff Schoolgirl Fallacy in your honour.

Spotting every time you commit the Griff Schoolgirl Fallacy will be our new drinking game.
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August 24, 2013 4:24pm
Kea

“Spotting every time you commit the Griff Schoolgirl Fallacy will be our new drinking game.”

Wat, I wonder if that is what bereal has been doing all this time ?
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August 24, 2013 4:27pm
ChrisM

As I thought, Griff, you don’t even read your own links. At least one of them says the opposite to your claim. We are talking about the here and now remember. Smokey the bear was dropped more than 30 years ago because the lack of fire was killing the sequoia forests. And how many of the current fires (56 in total) are prescribed fires that got away? I note that 12 of the fires they are letting burn without any active firefighting or containment.
As for your claim climate change is causing the drought, here is what EPA shows in their graph:
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/indicators/weather-climate/drought.html
It is dry, but nowhere near as dry as the 30s.
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August 24, 2013 4:27pm
Griff

78 year Old Swedish retired ~~weather man~~,meteorologist Lennart Bengtsson Says Warming So Small, Not Noticeable Without Meteorologists! Unfortunately for him noticing the despairing of ice is now done by satellites measuring mass balance.

http://www.colorado.edu/news/multimedia/grace-mission-measures-global-ice-mass-changes

Kea thank you for posting wingnuttery old fogies of 78 clinging to the past 😆

The important thing to take note of is the experts not blog science and opinion.

The conclusion from examining the paper I linked to from nasa in 1981 is beyond doubt not only is it happening as modeled it is happening quicker than estimates from models predicted.

Before you go of on the tangent of surface temperature Read the papers statements on the role of ocean heating the expected mechanism and the alternative.
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August 24, 2013 4:28pm
Kea

Hate Speech Has No Place in a Synagogue

Rabbi Michael White and Rabbi Jerome Davidson

Last fall the group T’ruah: The Rabbinic Call for Human Rights (formerly Rabbis For Human Rights-North America) echoed that sentiment with its effective New York City subway ad campaign that countered Geller’s offensive anti-Muslim subway posters. T’ruah’s message challenged: “In the choice between love and hate, choose love. Help stop bigotry against our Muslim neighbors.”

http://www.thejewishweek.com/editorial-opinion/opinion/hate-speech-has-no-place-synagogue
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August 24, 2013 4:29pm
Griff

averaged over the entire area of the contiguous 48 states. Are you stupid wingnut? I am not and you are making it easy
😆
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

The East: The eastern U.S. remains drought free again this week.

The South and Southern Plains: Beneficial rains fell again this week across portions of northern Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Arkansas, leading to improvements in drought conditions in western and central Kansas, western and central Oklahoma, the Panhandle of Texas, south-central Arkansas, and eastern Louisiana. Conversely, Extreme (D3), Severe (D2) and Moderate Drought (D1) expanded in Texas and northern Louisiana and Abnormal Dryness (D0) expanded in Louisiana and southern Arkansas.

The Central and Northern Plains: Beneficial rainfall continues to improve drought conditions in western and southern South Dakota, where Moderate Drought (D1) and Abnormal Dryness (D0) have abated, and in northern Nebraska where Extreme Drought (D3) was reduced. Conversely, eastern parts of Iowa and South Dakota have seen less precipitation than normal and Abnormal Dryness (D0) has expanded there.

The Midwest: Lack of recent precipitation is beginning to be felt throughout the region. Abnormal Dryness (D0) expanded across eastern Illinois and into western Indiana, in northern Michigan, and across most of Minnesota and parts of Wisconsin. Likewise, Moderate Drought (D1) expanded in Minnesota and northern Wisconsin. Cooler temperatures have helped abate the lack of moisture lately but that could be changing as above-normal temperatures are expected in the area over the next two weeks.

The West: Conditions continue to degrade in the northern sections of the West. Idaho, western Montana, and northern Utah experienced an expansion of Severe Drought (D2) and western Montana saw an expansion of Moderate Drought (D1). Some of this area has experienced low precipitation for over a year with wildfire activity increasing as of late. Conversely, conditions continue to improve slightly in eastern New Mexico, which experienced a decrease of Exceptional (D4), Extreme (D3), and Severe Drought (D2), eastern Colorado where Extreme (D3) and Severe Drought (D2) conditions eased, and eastern Wyoming where Severe (D2) and Moderate Drought (D1) and Abnormal Dryness (D0) abated.

Wildfires remain a problem in parts of the West. The National Interagency Fire Center reported 51 active, large wildfires on August 20, up from last week. Large fires continue to 10 western states including Idaho, where the Elk Fire has consumed over 130,000 acres of vegetation, an increase of over 30,000 acres this week. According to numerous sources, the cost of battling wildfires in 2013 has now exceeded $1 billion.
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August 24, 2013 4:35pm
Pauleastbay

@ Red

Now fuck off please and let me deal with the people here who have something to say

says the CEO of fuck all, – good god .

“Dealing with” means (1) solving a problem (2) having a actual programme or policy that would have things in a better position after you had “dealt with’ the issue. And seeing as you have never ever once supplied a solution to anything other than abuse the questioner I conclude for the umptenth time you are totally full of shit .
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August 24, 2013 4:36pm
Kea

Griff, the leader of your cult is a retired Indian Railroad Engineer ! It did not go unnoticed how you focused on the guys age, as you had fuck all else to discredit him. I am pleased you heard of NASA. NASA confirmed the warming stopped nearly 20 years ago.

*Take note kids, this is what drugs can do to you. Griff was once normal [ish] until he went to see the science fiction movie An Inconvenient Truth after smoking cannabis all day. Now he is unable to tell right from wrong, truth from fiction, and is a burden on society.
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August 24, 2013 4:39pm
Kea

Griff,

1. Fires during the fire season in fire areas in forests that have evolved to have fires, is not proof of AGW.

2. You are using weather [again] when the issue is climate. A point you are quick to mention when confronted with the series of freezing winters in the North and record ice in the Baltic. It seems weather is proof of climate, but only if it supports AGW.
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August 24, 2013 4:44pm
thedavincimode

I see. So posting a photo of you at work made you think of vaseline and anal sex. Understandable.

But let’s explore this cowardice thing also – and for present purposes. it’s apposite to do that in the context of your fixation with bumsex. For example, when ChardonnayGuy announced he was homosexual, what was it exactly that made you feel you were advancing your ideal of courage and principled behaviour, of

an innate respect for the individual

that lead you to henceforth refer to him as “Chutneychuteguy”. (And for that matter, what made your mind conjure up the rectal passage? When you are introduced to a heterosexual male, do you talk to him whilst imagining him inserting his erect penis in a vagina?)

Or is it just that your puerile Walter Mitty / Don Quixote fantasies about leading the revolution, rescuing damsels in distress and being prepared to die in a “hail of lead” as I recall you once put it, lead you to believe that you must be courageous thereby entitling you to accuse others of cowardice from behind the cover of your nom de plume. Or is it the fact that your identity has in fact been busted Russell, meaning that as you are in reality no longer in hiding, you can safely accuse others of cowardice? Or is it more simply that you are just full of shit?
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August 24, 2013 4:45pm
Griff

Kea you are spurting meaningless garbage are you on acid?
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August 24, 2013 4:52pm
Griff

full of shit+1
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August 24, 2013 4:54pm
MT_Tinman

bereal (2,805) Says:
August 24th, 2013 at 3:19 pm
Flea lawyer ‘ nickb’ states on GD 6.16pm, 20th August in an extended rant that,
“It is beyond me why anyone would take on legal aid work given the
derisory rate of pay and …..etc, etc”

This is in keeping with the sentiment from his mentor F E Smith that he (Smith) never
takes apeal cases because, “There is no money in it.”

The people of New Zealand are blessed that this mecenary attitude is not
reflected among all defense lawyers.

Bereal, I’m not a shyster but do wonder; When was the last time you worked at your profession (trade, paid job or whatever) for nothing/reduced rates?

I can name my last time, can you?
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August 24, 2013 5:01pm
Redbaiter

Not interested Kevin. You have spent hours writing similar pieces on here that are all full of the same bigoted distorted lies and bullshit and all conveying the same message. That you don’t like Redbaiter, that he’s a windbag, that he lives in Tauranga, that his real identity is Russell Fletcher, that he is a hypocrite, that he is a repressed homosexual, that he is old, that he is a pensioner, blah blah blah…

Fair enough. if you honestly believe it is your mission to come on here constantly and present such lies and such rabid opinions then fine. I can’t stop you, and given that you almost never have any point of political disagreement in your comments, it just does not in the end matter. Except that I am puzzled as to why you would expect anything apart from derision in return.

So maybe you could answer one simple question for me.

Why should I care?

or even better-

Why do you?
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August 24, 2013 5:29pm
Kea

Obama is rapidly cementing his place alongside other black leaders such as’ Idi Amin, General But Naked [sic], Mugabe, Laurent-Désiré Kabila. Sadly, Obama is not just persecuting his own people, but is spreading his message of death and war globally.

It looks like he is taking his support of the Muslim Brotherhood to the next level. No doubt keen to follow up his success supporting radical Islamists in Egypt !

US readies possible missile strike against Syria – report

http://rt.com/news/us-missile-attack-syria-929/
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August 24, 2013 5:33pm
Redbaiter

Actually, (on further reflection) don’t answer that, I am sorry I put the time into writing it. Just fuck off and stop stalking me you pathetic obsessive psychotic creep.
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August 24, 2013 5:35pm
wat dabney

“As I thought, Griff, you don’t even read your own links. At least one of them says the opposite to your claim.

And certainly not for the first time.

The lamentable Griff once posted a bunch of links about Artic ice which completely contradicted what he was saying.

Such is his dishonesty that he simply ignored them from that point forward.

Sadly he doesn’t yet grasp that his dishonesty, ignorance and immaturity all conspire to make him the object of derision he is.

Those smiley faces you constantly use like a silly schoolgirl, Griff? That’s us laughing at you.
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August 24, 2013 5:38pm
Griff

Dont worry reddy we all love you.
Your constant caricature of a totally irrational wingut makes every day a day fulled with delight. I am somewhat concerned about this talking to yourself. Are you taking psychoactive medicines other than the ones nursey gives you?
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August 24, 2013 5:40pm
Kea

I wonder why our race obsessed media overlooked this ?

St. Paul: Bystander Brutally Beaten After Wandering into Apparent Gang Fight

Police found Widstrand lying on the ground, bleeding from his nose and mouth, his pants removed and shirt torn, according to a criminal complaint filed by the Ramsey County attorney’s office.

“He’s in the most difficult time right now, as far as swelling and cranial pressure. We’re in that critical time,” his father, Peter Widstrand, said.

According to the complaint, Widstrand was attacked when he tried to walk through a group of 30 to 50 juveniles and young adults fighting near Payne and Minnehaha avenues in the Payne-Phalen neighborhood about 11:30 p.m. Sunday.

No doubt we would have heard about it if this young man dared defend himself from the attack.

http://www.amren.com/news/2013/08/st-paul-bystander-brutally-beaten-after-wandering-into-apparent-gang-fight/
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August 24, 2013 5:41pm
Left Right and Centre

bereal 3:29 pm No. Must be the life and soul of the party… being the world’s leading authority on every conceivable subject including fun and likeability.

♪ ♫ ♫ ♪ ♫
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August 24, 2013 5:43pm
Lucia Maria

On Europeans being barbarians and Christianity coming from the Middle East, Kea’s favourite cudgel.

Yes, we know!

Europe’s luck was its initial poverty. For a very long time, Europe remained far removed from the existing cultural centers in Asia. Europeans were barbarians, inhabiting distant, freezing northern shores. And they knew this about themselves. Studying classical languages, and thereby imbibing a civilization wholly different from their own, made them conscious of the fact that they were stinking barbarians, who needed to wash themselves with the soap of higher civilizations. The Romans were well aware that they were culturally inferior to the Greeks. But they also had the courage to admit it. And that is precisely what gave them the strength to absorb the Hellenic civilization, and spread it to the lands they conquered. The essential characteristic of European culture is that it is ex-centric. Not in the sense of an Englishman who takes a bath wearing his bowler hat, but in the sense that the two sources of her civilization, Athens and Jerusalem, lie outside the geographical area of Europe itself. European culture is based on the recognition that we are barbarians who civilized ourselves by internalizing ‘strange’ cultural sources.

And that’s unique to Europe?

Yes, Western civilization is something very strange and unusual. Most civilizations have only one centre. Islam has Mecca. Ancient Egypt had Memphis. Babylon had Babylon. But Western civilization had two sources, Athens and Jerusalem—the Jewish and later Christian tradition and that of pagan antiquity—often described as being in dynamic conflict. This opposition is founded on the opposition of Jew and Greek, borrowed from Saint Paul, which was then systemized in different ways: Hellenism versus Hebraism, the religion of beauty versus the religion of obedience, reason versus faith, aesthetics versus ethics, etc. The curious thing is that one was never swallowed by the other. Europe is neither Jewish nor Greek. In “Rome” in Christianity (e.g., the Roman Catholic Church), Jerusalem and Athens are simultaneously joined and kept apart.

With the coming of Christianity the preceding cultures were not destroyed, but a new civilization was formed. As the Romans recognized that their culture was “secondary” to that of the Greeks, the Christians recognized that Judaism preceded Christianity. This understanding gave European civilization a unique openness and humility towards the enormous cultural achievements of the past.

This humility has been a great strength. It fosters the awareness that you cannot simply inherit a civilizing tradition, but that you must work very hard to obtain it—to control the barbarian inside. This has given European culture the possibility of renaissances: a renewed appreciation of the sources of our culture, to correct what has gone wrong.

This becomes apparent in the different ways in which Islam and Christianity approached their older Greek and Jewish sources. The difference could be described by the words “digestion” and “inclusion”. In Islam, the original Jewish and Christian texts were digested, changed into something completely new, purely authentic to Islam itself. In Europe on the other hand, the original texts were left in their original state. The Christian Old Testament and the Jewish Tenakh are almost exactly the same; and Christians recognize the Jewish origins of the books of the Old Testament. Similarly, the Church Fathers took up classical philosophy, and Thomas Aquinas studied Aristotle and included Aristotelian notions in his theology. Yet scholars have never stopped reading the works of Aristotle himself.

The success of Western Europe is remarkable. Who could have thought in the early Middle Ages that Western Europe would become so powerful, and not the Byzantine or Islamic civilizations? Europe is a continent of parvenus. The Roman and Christian inferiority complexes have worked as spurs on the horse.

“Yellow Ants,” Fundamentalists, and Cowboys – An interview with Rémi Brague
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August 24, 2013 5:49pm
Kea

LRC, did you go mincing around the waterfront again today, with your wristbands on ? I bet you did you little show pony. I went for an early morning run up the hill. I thought about you and your delicate little ankles as I strode purposefully over the mud and rocks. I am staying in Welly for a week soon, but the authorities probably won’t allow me to prance around the waterfront with you as my shoes are muddy and my gear is not this seasons fashion. I don’t see many other runners, but do come across the odd pig and stuff.
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August 24, 2013 5:54pm
Kea

Lucia Maria, did you see the links I posted to articles by various Rabbis opposing the vilification of Muslims ?

Interesting article. How about taking the next step and letting go of your Middle Eastern religion ?
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August 24, 2013 5:58pm
Redbaiter

Cowardly GOP Establishment More Concerned About What Marxist Media Says Than Their Own Base

Burke calls the GOP establishment cowardly, limp-wristed and unwilling to fight. and says that if RINO’s (Republicans in Name Only) think that 2010 was a bloodbath for them, “they haven’t seen anything yet.” Burke then states that anyone in Congress who doesn’t vote to defund Obamacare will be forever labeled as an “Obamacare sympathizer,” and will be thrown out on their heads by the Tea Party.

From the Tea Party News Network.

Republican Party is just like the National Party.
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August 24, 2013 6:01pm
ChrisM

Griff
Stop being a moron and try and raise your IQ to at least double figures.
The Palmer Drought severity index is the recognised figure and has been that way since way before NOAA got in on the act. Your link only goes back to 2000 – easy to say it is the worst on record.
And my fire data is the current listing: ”
August 23, 2013
Moderate fire activity was reported nationally. Nine new large fires were reported due to thunderstorm activity passing over the West. Firefighters were able to contain three of the large fires in California.”

with them listing only 9 states and Alaska. You will also notice that the YTD figures are the second lowest in the last 10 years.
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August 24, 2013 6:02pm
Griff

wat dabney (2,914) Says:
Wat you are a wingnut and you read wingnut blogs
Your stupidity was displayed graphically when you disputed the global experts on sea ice extent with a misleading photo of a submarine you were fed by A Watts professional blog nutter.
Insulting me is just you trying to deal with being a flake in public repeatedly.
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August 24, 2013 6:04pm
Redbaiter

The 33-year-old single woman who decides she wants more from life than her career cannot so readily walk into marriage and children; by postponing them, all she has done is to push them ahead to a point in her life when she has less sexual power to attain them. Instead, she must confront the sad possibility that she might never have what was the birthright of every previous generation of women: children, a family life and a husband who — however dull or oppressive he might have appeared to feminist eyes — at least was there.

Source unknown.
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August 24, 2013 6:09pm
Left Right and Centre

Kea 5:54 pm You strode purposefully because you eat enough energy to keep you overweight, so plenty in the fuel tank – and you don’t get out much. And you don’t run much either darling.

You think that dancing is for poofs but would ignorantly miss the fact that dancers have strong feet and ankles from it. Look it up… you look up every other boring topic imaginable.

You’ll definitely lose weight quicker running over rocks and mud…. good strategy.

Maybe I should try it myself? I mean… I’ve been running on the flat and the best I can do is 80.2 today. Another run now and I might not even crack 80. How pathetic can you get?
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August 24, 2013 6:15pm
Kea

LRC, you have a condition known in medical circles as, Fag Ankle. It is caused by running around waterfronts with office workers.
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August 24, 2013 6:22pm
thedavincimode

Come, come Russell. Do you think that more bluster, blather and obfuscation will conceal what all can see; that you are the one who continually purports to set the bar in terms of standards of behaviour? This isn’t about me Russell; it’s about you.

Only today you puffed out your chest and lectured us on “innate respect for the individual”. How do you reconcile that with “chutneychuteguy”?

You accused me (again) of being a coward. Yet you hurl abusive denigrating bigotry at anyone who disagrees with you. Why is it that you aren’t are a coward Russell? Is it your puerile fantasy and delusions of grandeur?

Twist and squirm, avoid and obfuscate all you like. But you have made it about you with your facile Walter Mitty fantasies and bare-faced hypocrisy. You can blather all you like Russell but everyone here knows that I have never claimed to be anything whereas you claim to be everything that you are not.
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August 24, 2013 6:26pm
Fletch

Hate Speech Has No Place in a Synagogue

Well, hate speech has plenty of place in the mosque, coming
straight from the imam.
That is the difference.
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August 24, 2013 6:28pm
Kea

Fletch, I think you failed to grasp the spirit of the message from the Rabbis. But don’t worry, those of us who did -get it- will guide you.

I may not agree with any of you religious folk on the existence of god, but I wish you no harm.
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August 24, 2013 6:32pm
ChrisM

Do you know what projection is Griff, because you certainly are exhibiting it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
If the photos of the submarines at the ice free North Pole you are talking about, the Skate photo on 17th March 1959 and Skate and Seadragon there in August 62 come from the official US Navy photo archives. And the first photo was taken when the ice was supposed to be at its maximum.
But no doubt it is all a great rightwing conspiracy to suppress the truth for you.
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August 24, 2013 6:38pm
Griff

ChrisM you add up the wet regions and the dry regions to get a number that represents drought this resultant number is low therefore there is no drought or indeed unusual climatic conditions . 😆 see any issue with this approach.
Meantime perusing the regional conditions gives well above average wet someplace and well below average moisture in others. It also gives less rainfall yet heaver when it occurs.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/national/2013/07/supplemental/page-4/

The year-to-date contiguous U.S. precipitation total of 19.14 inches was 1.54 inches above average and tied with 1997 as the 22nd wettest January–July on record. However, rainfall was not evenly distributed across the country. Dry precipitation extremes were observed in the West and wet precipitation extremes were observed in the East.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/extremes/cei/graph/4/01-12
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August 24, 2013 6:42pm
Redbaiter

“Only today you puffed out your chest and lectured us on “innate respect for the individual”.”

I was talking about a legal framework you brain dead prick. Telling the truth by calling out an insane obsessive like you as a sick psychotic loser is no contradiction to what I said above.

Why don’t you just fuck off? Apart from your endless personal attacks on Redbaiter, you have nothing to contribute on even one of the dozens of issues under discussion here.

What insanity is it that allows you to think I am worried about what some cowardly creep like you might think of me. I have friends who are good people, and I care about them, but some cowardly brain damaged internet POS like you I couldn’t care less if you burned Redbaiter effigies in main street.
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August 24, 2013 6:44pm
SGA

For those who can remember 70’s and a young Linda Ronstadt (recently announced her Parkinson’s).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoeesMC8P_M
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August 24, 2013 6:46pm
ChrisM

Griff, stop being so stupid you are only making a bigger fool of yourself.

Look what ncdc – your flavour of the month says about the historical record

“A gridded network of tree-ring reconstructions of Palmer Drought Severity Index (PDSI) for the last 300 years has been used to create a set of maps of the spatial pattern of PDSI for each year, back to AD 1700. This set of maps enables an assessment of the droughts of the 20th century compared to droughts for the past 300 years. An inspection of the maps shows that droughts similar to the 1950s, in terms of duration and spatial extent, occurred once or twice a century for the past three centuries (for example, during the 1860s, 1820s, 1730s). However, there has not been another drought as extensive and prolonged as the 1930s drought in the past 300 years.
Longer records show strong evidence for a drought that appears to have been more severe in some areas of central North America than anything we have experienced in the 20th century, including the 1930s drought. Tree-ring records from around North America document episodes of severe drought during the last half of the 16th century. Drought is reconstructed as far east as Jamestown, Virginia, where tree rings reflect several extended periods of drought that coincided with the disappearance of the Roanoke Colonists, and difficult times for the Jamestown colony. These droughts were extremely severe and lasted for three to six years, a long time for such severe drought conditions to persist in this region of North America. ”

So the worst drought in recent times was in the 30s and in the last 500 years, there have been bigger and more extensive droughts
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August 24, 2013 6:47pm
wat dabney

Oh dear Griff,

“Your stupidity was displayed graphically when you disputed the global experts on sea ice extent with a misleading photo of a submarine you”

This is a reference to another of Griff’s displays of total ignorance.

He got exited when he saw a picture published of a small area of open water near the North Pole and thought this was something new.

He didn’t know that these are well known transient features, used more than 50 years ago when the first nuclear submarines were navigating under the ice-cap. They are caused by the fact that the Arctic ice is constantly shifting.

Poor Griff.
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August 24, 2013 6:47pm
bereal

Do these flea lawyers like nickb and FE have the courage of their convictions ?

Yes. My oath they do.
No quid, no lawyer.

In the case of fleas such as nickb and FE you can take that to the ba

Makes Barry Hart look like a saint.
At least Barry did take some legal aid cases.

Davina Murray looks good compared to these fleas.

And in the case of a flea like FE when he loses your case, which he will take
on legal aid, he will then shit on you when it comes to appeal because.
” There is no money in it.”

That is what i mean by “flea lawyer.’

Right nickb ?
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August 24, 2013 6:49pm
Lucia Maria

Kea,

Yeah, I had a quick read of your 4:18 link. It’s somewhat nonsensical. His conflation of the Catholics opposition to the HHS Mandate and the imposition of Sharia law is idiotic.

And why would I leave Jesus? It would break His heart, and I don’t want to do that. Besides, Sine Dominico Non Possumus.
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August 24, 2013 6:51pm
Redbaiter

Interesting discussion on immigration, wherein the point is made thatthere are immigrants who are a benefit, and others who ar enot-

What was one of the main reasons for US supremacy in the 20th century vs. Europe? One of my friends has a simple answer:

“Our immigrants were better than their immigrants.”

What he means is that the great innovators, entrepreneurs, artists and scientists came to America while Europe got stuck with thousands upon thousands (now millions) of low-skilled laborers. Our immigrants got us the atom bomb before Europe. And they created wealth by starting companies like Pfizer, Intel and, more recently, Google. Whatever you think of the US financial industry, it still dominates the world of capitalism through immigrant-founded companies like Goldman Sachs.

Our Immigrants Were Better Than Their Immigrants
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August 24, 2013 6:52pm

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