General Debate 1 August 2013

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Pete George

Amongst the fallout from the Andrea Vance data debacle questions are being asked about Winston Peters and his involvement in leaking, accusing and smearing in his campaign to undermine the Government and execute a political hit job.

When Patrick Gower said “But the phone records weren’t even meant to be taken” Peters replied that it was his job to know.

Is it Winston’s job to know what’s going on in a sensitive inquiry into a spy report leak?

Is it Winston’s job to smear journalists?

Is it Winston’s job to try to eliminate elected members of Parliament?

Is it Winston’s job to undermine the elected Government?

We pay Winston’s wages. It’s his job to be upfront and tell us what he was doing, why he was doing it, and why he thinks it’s his job to be as disruptive as possible.

And if he won’t – and on past form he wont, he wont even admit his accusations were based on no evidence despite implying that he has the evidence – then it is up to the Privileges Committee to find out from those in Parliamentary Services (or it’s contractor) who aided and abetted his attempted political hit job.

Irony of the day – “Peters says PM not to be trusted”. Winston Peters: “It’s my job to know”
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August 1, 2013 8:05am
RRM

“In order for muck-raking to occur, there must first be muck to rake” – Francis Urquhart
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August 1, 2013 8:11am
iMP

Speaking of fallout from Andrea vance, then there’s the Rolling Stone magazine cover for August.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/08/01/the-bomberrolling-stone-controversy/
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August 1, 2013 8:16am
nickb

We pay Winston’s wages. It’s his job to be upfront and tell us what he was doing, why he was doing it, and why he thinks it’s his job to be as disruptive as possible.

Just fell off my chair and snorted V through my nose at the breathtaking irony of that one.
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August 1, 2013 8:18am
flipper

Notwithstanding Vance’s self admitted antecedents and the consequential irony, after reading her column this morning I score the GCSB game as follows:

J Key -2
D Henry -4
W Peters – 5
D Carter 0
D Shearer et al 0
A Vance + 10
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August 1, 2013 8:21am
nickb

Peter Dune -100,000?
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August 1, 2013 8:23am
Keeping Stock

@ Pete George – does Winston Peters have any shares or other interest in Datacom? Perhaps the release of HIS phone logs might be in the public interest… 😛
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August 1, 2013 8:30am
UglyTruth

We pay Winston’s wages.

No, the Crown pays him. Taxpayers don’t get to specify how the Crown uses the money they give it.
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August 1, 2013 8:30am
Manolo

Monica loosens her tongue (metaphorically speaking): http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/07/bill-clinton-sex-tape-monica-lewinsky/
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August 1, 2013 8:35am
iMP

A letter from the mayor of Boston to Rolling Stone.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/08/01/the-boston-mayors-letter/
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August 1, 2013 8:38am
Rick Rowling

The thing I love about the Vance phone record issue is how our journalists are being so introspective about their possible inbuilt bias on the issue, and are keeping the reporting so balanced.

[irony tag for those that need it]
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August 1, 2013 8:39am
calendar girl

Flipper, Ms Vance would do better to let other journalists do the writing when she’s at the centre of the story.
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August 1, 2013 8:40am
jaba

I woke up in the NORTH Island of NEW ZEALAND today
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August 1, 2013 8:41am
Rick Rowling

after reading her column this morning I score the GCSB game as follows:

Flipper – Vance has to lose 1 point for claiming her phone records were “hacked”.

It’s a flamin’ phone bill – you’ll notice that your telecommunications provider or admin has “hacked” your metadata too – and likely printed it on paper and posted it to you with an invoice 🙂
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August 1, 2013 8:43am
joana

PG
Smearing whilst accusing another of smearing ..nice. Why so worked up at this hour of the morning?’
I think most would agree that Dunne has been the author of his own demise and I am someone who has praised him for how much he helped people in his electorate in the past..myself included on one occasion.
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August 1, 2013 8:48am
Longknives

Not for long Jaba…
The powers are working behind closed doors to give the North Island a new ‘made-up’ PC name!
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August 1, 2013 8:49am
kowtow

Yep those poor oppressed journalists they’d never snoop illegally into private citizens affairs……..and they’d never do it simply to boost circulation and income…….only to hold the powerful to account and to protect our rights……..bwahahahahahaha.
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August 1, 2013 8:51am
Longknives

iMP- Rolling Stone ceased being a music magazine many years ago.
All it does these days is spout left-wing politics- During the last two elections it was little more than a campaign mag for ‘The Messiah’..
The glamourisation and elevation of a lowlife Terrorist to a lefty ‘sex symbol’ was a natural progression for them.
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August 1, 2013 8:53am
hj

Labour’s Latest Housing Policy as usefull remider

“Critics say we don’t know if foreigners are buying up large so therefore we don’t have a problem – we simply have a “solution in search of a problem” (See House policy ‘reeks of xenophobia’ – Stuff)

It’s crazy to say that because we don’t have data about the extent to which foreign buyers are snapping up New Zealand houses, we don’t have a problem.

We may or may not have a problem, we don’t know.

But we certainly have the risk of one.

If New Zealand’s housing market is getting swamped by foreign money, depending on the type of investor we are dealing with, that could be bad news for the economy.

Having an effective pre-emptive policy in place to reduce this risk is justifiable (but that’s not to say Labour’s particular policy is likely to be effective).

The alternative of doing nothing until we’re certain we have a problem is a classic example of bolting the gate once the horse has bolted.
http://garethsworld.com/blog/property/labours-latest-housing-policy-a-useful-reminder/
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August 1, 2013 8:54am
hj

Johnny Foreigner & the Auckland Property Market
“Were the new purchasers from overseas? In one case, no, another – hard to say. Because as a number of commentators have pointed out already, in a city where just under a third of residents are ‘Asian’, it’s very easy to get the impression that foreign ownership is a bigger issue than it actually is. No-one seems to have any accurate data on just how many houses are sold to, or owned by, overseas interests. Which you think might be a useful piece of information for a Government to know.”
http://publicaddress.net/cracker/johnny-foreigner-the-auckland-property-market/

the government wouldn’t want us to know.
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August 1, 2013 8:58am
flipper

calendar girl (915) Says:

August 1st, 2013 at 8:40 am
Flipper, Ms Vance would do better to let other journalists do the writing when she’s at the centre of the story.
and
Rick Rowling…
<>>
Good points both….
In saying she was “hacked” (well, her phone records at PBldgs.. and elsewhere(?) ) she probably is unaware how amusing, yet in a way accurate, that the comment really is. 🙂
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August 1, 2013 9:02am
joana

HJ
They did away with the ”housing research unit.” The other day Bill English was relying on figures from the BNZ..How amazing..How can anyone determine a policy when there is no accurate information?
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August 1, 2013 9:04am
joana

Dime,
Please go and get a colonoscopy..pay for it yourself if there is any kind of wait.
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August 1, 2013 9:05am
Scott Chris

It’s worth considering the fact that Vance worked for News of the World who were known to have hacked a phone message or two. Different when the intrusion happens the other way I guess.

Vance really should pull her indignant head in.
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August 1, 2013 9:17am
sbk

Al-Queda here ?…quick,someone inform PG…but a question…were they identified before arriving or subsequently?.Either way…not good.
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August 1, 2013 9:21am
hj

Catherine Delahunty says Maori would do better in schools if Pakeha teachers were more culturally responsive:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/temanukorihi/audio/2564114/te-manu-korihi-news-for-1-august-2013
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August 1, 2013 9:26am
SGA

Scott Chris at 9:17 am

It’s worth considering the fact that Vance worked for News of the World who were known to have hacked a phone message or two. Different when the intrusion happens the other way I guess.
Vance really should pull her indignant head in.

While I take your point, you might hope that our governments aspired to slightly greater levels of integrity than “News of the World”. But then again… 🙂
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August 1, 2013 9:33am
kowtow

The ODT has weighed into the rude taxi passenger issue with an editorial.

Frightening to think they support a police warning for rudeness and that they say we are multicultural. Multi ethnic ,yes.Multiculti NO.
They even imply,approvingly, this is a “timely reminder” to us all that our thoughts can lead to police action.
So the media now approve of the police as guardians of our morality.
The irony is this is a Saudi Wahabi practise and very far removed from the western tradition.

Strange times.

http://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/editorial/266960/actions-speak-louder-words#comment-46724
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August 1, 2013 9:39am
Manolo

To Griff’s delight: AGW is here to stay.
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/eastern-australia-experiences-warmest-july-on-record/story-e6frfkp9-1226688944495

More taxes will stop it, of course. Long live Labour Lite & Nick Smith’s ETS.
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August 1, 2013 9:40am
Griff

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10906069

Maori landowners block cycle trail access.

Maori landowners opposed to the Far North coast-to-coast cycle trail going through their property are ready should the district council slap a trespass notice on them.

Bullshit
You can not get a trespass notice on land you own.

New headlines

Lawless Maori block access to government land.

Maori sabotage nationally significant tourism project.
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August 1, 2013 9:44am
Pete George

Report released on NZ climate: regional and economic impacts:
http://www.pmcsa.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/New-Zealands-Changing-Climate-and-Oceans-report.pdf

5. Summary
New Zealand’s climate is changing as a result of historical emissions across the globe, and will continue
to change over the coming decades.

By the late 21st century New Zealand is expected to be at least 2°C warmer on average compared with 199067but also the extremes will have shifted, probably with fewer frosts and more extremely hot days and lengthy droughts. Precipitation patterns are expected to have altered, with more frequent heavy rains, and dry spells.

Changes are not expected to be uniform across the North and South Islands however, with increases in rain in the west and decreases in the east and north.

Far more in the linked PDF.
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August 1, 2013 9:47am
Black with a Vengeance

Get that first spliff in for the day Griff and quit worrying about what Maori are doing and more on how the govt are going to expose your darkest secrets if you fuck them off.

Remember…everyone has something to hide!
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August 1, 2013 9:54am
Carlos

Great idea for saving on petrol.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=507157519353957&set=vb.139188202817559&type=2&theater
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August 1, 2013 9:57am
Longknives

Griff- I think History has shown that such problems are easily solved. All it takes is a few hundred thousand in ‘Koha’ paid to the Greedy Maori…sorry the ‘Taniwha’, and his rage is appeased.
And we can all go on with our lives….(albeit the mug ‘Honkey’ taxpayer is a bit lighter in the pockets- but as Willie J says “It’s not his country anyway- so he doesn’t get a say”)
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August 1, 2013 9:58am
hj

@ Griff
Lawless Maori block access to government land.
….
the same is happening down south at least one farmer won’t let them through.
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August 1, 2013 9:59am
bhudson

Remember…everyone has something to hide!

Except for me and my monkey
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August 1, 2013 9:59am
Griff

Not
I hope that there is a file on me somewhere.
Some of my comments should set of alarm bells 😆

Do you think that you can comment on a political blogs in nz and not have some monitoring of content.?

The fact that nutters like Anders Behring Breivik exists means society must protect its self.

There will defiantly be a file on you bwav does that worry you?
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August 1, 2013 10:02am
Longknives

bhudson- Nice!
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August 1, 2013 10:02am
hj

I recommend this (all the episodes) and it occurs to me that as 100,000 settlers head into the plains where the indian tribes lived that in light of xenophobia claims over immigration and foriegn investment in land, that we Kiwi (Pakeha and Maori) have a culture around small towns, small cities, low population and the freedoms it gave us. The logn term effect has been they same for Maori but the delivery wasn’t as harsh. The behaviour of the Spanish was a kin to Maori colonisation of the Chathams.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dr_Qqja4RY
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August 1, 2013 10:07am
dime

“Hey Dime, that chicken looks pink in the middle”

“nah bullshit. cooked it myself”

………………………………………………………………………..

hell of a night
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August 1, 2013 10:07am
Manolo

A fine and decent man steps down: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8987993/Fresh-blood-vital-says-deputy-as-he-calls-time
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August 1, 2013 10:10am
RightNow

“There will defiantly be a file on you bwav ”

Of course there is, it’s at WINZ.
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August 1, 2013 10:12am
Yvette

Why are Andrea Vance and Fairfax not charged with possession of stolen goods, or illegal use of a Government document for pecuniary gain?
Anything to knock her whinging into some perspective would do
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August 1, 2013 10:15am
Black with a Vengeance

There will defiantly be a file on you bwav does that worry you?

No…not at the moment, but it might in the future.

The disclaimer is that pseudonyms are entirely fictitious characters that may or may not represent the true opinions of the author.

There’s a certain freedom in anonymity that should be respected and fought for.
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August 1, 2013 10:18am
Left Right and Centre

I reckon the fashion police should also find out who hacked Andrea Vance’s hair.
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August 1, 2013 10:24am
Griff

Pseudonyms are not a protection from determined snooping.
Dpf has the ip addresses of all of us. You are trusting a white man .
The content is on the web.
Algorithms to pull words or word sequences exist.
Nitrate, diesel, anfo ,bulk explosive, nitric acid, hydrochloric acid, cotton, gun cotton, primary explosive.
😆
Someone will be monitoring for those words together somewhere.
We are all being spied on right now 😆
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August 1, 2013 10:37am
kowtow

So the attempts to control personal choices and attack private property grows apace.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/communities/2-minutes-with/8989780/Sugary-drinks-on-a-par-with-tobacco
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August 1, 2013 10:49am
Longknives

Breaking News!
The North and South Islands are no more…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10906582

If anyone really believes that ‘You have a choice what to call them’ bullcrap I have a bridge to sell you.
Watch the TV1 and TV3 weathermen start forcing these bullshit made-up names on us..
Talk to your kids in a few months time- Bet they will be forced to use the Maori names at school…
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August 1, 2013 10:54am
nostrils

It is August 1st, not April 1st…..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8988006/No-tax-relief-offered-for-freezing-people
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August 1, 2013 10:57am
skyblue

Longknives – the gradual niggerfication of NZ continues, step by step, inch by inch. What next, the Muslim names as well?
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August 1, 2013 10:58am
Manolo

And bullshit Stone Age names they are! More and more PC crap and rewriting of history.
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August 1, 2013 10:59am
kowtow

longknives

Our ruling classes (politicians,academics,media etc) don’t give a toss for the opinions of NewZealanders and will drive their agenda relentlessly,they know best.

They are dangerously anti democratic and then are surprised at the contempt in which we hold them. They are themselves responsible for the collapse in trust ,disengagement etc that so many have for the now discredited democratic process that was once held so dear.

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/212878/otago-settlers-museum-have-toitu-tag
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August 1, 2013 11:02am
Longknives

Kowtow- That Otago Settler’s Museum example was a fucking disgrace.
Are we that disgusted by our own Colonial History that we can’t have an ‘Early Settlers’ Museum?
Is the History of all those trailblazing European and Asian Settlers in Otago to be wiped from the record books simply to appease Maori activists??
Fucking bullshit. I am angry. Need a drink…
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August 1, 2013 11:09am
publicwatchdog

Good moaning Kiwibloggers 🙂

Got any thoughts on this one?

UPON WHAT LAWFUL BASIS WAS THE ‘CHIEF OF STAFF’ OF THE OFFICE OF THE PRIME MINISTER (WAYNE EAGLESON) INVOLVED IN ACCESSING ANDREA VANCE’S RECORDS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10906314

PM’s chief to face hard questions
By Audrey Young , Rebecca Quilliam
1 August 2013

After the Parliamentary Service originally questioned whether it should provide information to the inquiry, Mr Eagleson sent an email on May 9 telling it that “the Prime Minister would like [the] Parliamentary Service to make available to the inquiry team records from ministerial office photocopiers and any other relevant material requested. I note that this may relate both to ministers and their staff.”

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Upon what LAWFUL basis was the Prime Minister’s Chief of Staff, Wayne Eagleson, involved in this process in the first place?

http://www.dpmc.govt.nz/dpmc

“Administrative support to the Prime Minister

This includes preparation of replies to Parliamentary questions, and dealing with Official Information Act requests and other correspondence.

A totally separate body, the Office of the Prime Minister, also advises the Prime Minister: it is the primary point of responsibility for managing political issues and relationships with other political parties and for providing administrative and media support.”

“STRUCTURE

DPMC formally came into existence on 1 January 1990, as a result of a report which recommended establishing structures to provide two separate streams of advice to the Prime Minister; one, a new government department to supply impartial, high quality advice and support to the Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC), and another, a Prime Minister’s Private Office (which is not part of DPMC), to provide personal support and media services, and advice of a party political nature.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10543177

Been there, done that … new PM gets experienced help
By Paula Oliver
4:00 AM Saturday Nov 15, 2008

…. As chief of staff he will be a fulcrum between National and other parties, acting as a chief executive of the Prime Minister’s Office with hiring and firing responsibilities.

Mr Eagleson was deeply involved in National’s successful election campaign and knows the party’s strategies and inner workings. ….

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright

‘Anti-corruption/anti-privatisation’ campaigner

2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate
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August 1, 2013 11:21am
Manolo

The earthquakes continue: http://newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbnat/1071817274-another-sharp-jolt-for-seddon
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August 1, 2013 11:22am
Fletch

Longknives, the current names will probably go the way of Mount Egmont

More’s the pity 🙁
I’m still going to be using North Island and South Island.
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August 1, 2013 11:23am
graham

Longknives (2,771) Says:
August 1st, 2013 at 10:54 am

Breaking News!
The North and South Islands are no more…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10906582

If anyone really believes that ‘You have a choice what to call them’ bullcrap I have a bridge to sell you.
Watch the TV1 and TV3 weathermen start forcing these bullshit made-up names on us..
Talk to your kids in a few months time-

Doesn’t worry me that much, TBH. It’s like “New Zealand” and “Aotearoa”. It’s only ever people like the Greens and Mana and the Maori Party that you hear referring to Aotearoa – 95% of the world refers to New Zealand. It’ll be the same here.

By the way, anybody else noticed that after the changing of Wanganui to Whanganui, the TV1 weather map still shows it as Wanganui (without the “H”)? 🙂
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August 1, 2013 11:24am
Fletch

More revelations from The Guardian newspaper on the NSA spying.
Another tool called XKeyscore collects nearly everything a user does on the internet, from email, facebook chats, browsing – pretty much anything.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

XKeyscore: NSA tool collects ‘nearly everything a user does on the internet’

• XKeyscore gives ‘widest-reaching’ collection of online data
• NSA analysts require no prior authorization for searches
• Sweeps up emails, social media activity and browsing history
• NSA’s XKeyscore program – read one of the presentations
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August 1, 2013 11:30am
thedavincimode

I wonder if he made it.
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August 1, 2013 11:48am
Tauhei Notts

Graham,
Race meetings held by the Wanganui Jockey Club (Inc) and the Wanganui Greyhound Racing Club (Inc) are both reported in the Waikato Times as being Whanganui.
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August 1, 2013 11:51am
Black with a Vengeance

Longknives – the gradual niggerfication of NZ continues, step by step, inch by inch.

That’s RE-NIGGERFICATION oh enlightened one 🙂
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August 1, 2013 11:52am
cha

+1 Black.
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August 1, 2013 11:53am
wikiriwhis business

https://www.facebook.com/notes/frankie-lingham/the-government-will-control-what-you-eat/10150789831735254

In regards to where Food Bill 160-2 is right now:

‘It has finished its select committee hearings and waiting for its second reading. No sign of it on order paper so hopefully won’t get its second reading before elexction’

(source: Sue Kedgley, Green Party)

Main problems with the Food Bill

– It turns a human right (to grow food and share it) into a government-authorised privilege that can be revoked by the Governor-General.

– It makes it illegal to distribute “food” without authorisation, and it defines “food” in such a way that it includes nutrients, seeds, natural medicines, essential minerals and drinks (including water).

– It will push up mainstream food prices by subjecting producers to red tape and registration costs. Food prices are already rising due to increased energy costs and commodity speculation, while effective disposable incomes are falling.

– Growing food for distribution must be authorised, even for “cottage industries”, and such authorisation can be denied.

– Under the Food Bill, Food Safety Officers can enter premises without a warrant using all equipment they deem necessary, including guns (Clause 265 – 1). Police can be Food Safety Officers, and so can members of the private sector, as at Clause 243. So Monsanto employees can raid premises like houses or marae without a warrant, backed up by armed police.

– The Government has created this bill to keep in line with its World Trade Organisation obligations under an international scheme called Codex Alimentarius (“Food Book”). So it has to pass this bill in one form or another.

– There are problems with Codex also. Codex will place severe restrictions on the content of vitamins, minerals and therapeutic compounds in food, drinks and supplements etc. The Food Bill means that non-complying producers can be shut down easily – thus it paves the way for the legal enforcement of Codex food regulations.
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August 1, 2013 11:53am
wikiriwhis business

“There’s a certain freedom in anonymity that should be respected and fought for.”

you got that right in one
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August 1, 2013 11:55am
Black with a Vengeance

So the attempts to control personal choices and attack private property grows apace.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/communities/2-minutes-with/8989780/Sugary-drinks-on-a-par-with-tobacco

Been saying it for years.

Put fat, toothless kids and ugly people on dialysis machines on the labelling as well.
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August 1, 2013 11:56am
Black with a Vengeance

Pseudonyms are not a protection from determined snooping.

Not saying they are, but a pseudonym guarantees I don’t bring the family name into disrepute.

That’s quite a big thing for some of us Pasifikans.
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August 1, 2013 12:01pm
wikiriwhis business

Spain privatises the sun

“If you get caught collecting photons of sunlight for your own use you can get a fine not exceeding 30 million euros”
http://thefreeonline.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/corrupt-spain-to-privatise-sunshine-destroy-renewables/
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August 1, 2013 12:12pm
Left Right and Centre

Black with a Vengeance 11:52 am But the brown people have got the white people to thank for their ultimately being more of them alive now than ever before.

And without the variable of the white people…. what would have happened to their number? Reached the same level as 2013? For a Maori… a percentage of them wouldn’t have come into existence *without* white people taking over the country.

The estimates of Maori population at time of colonisation being what… 100-200K? Re-population was achieved by… the 1950s? !960s? Now they’re just taking the piss… hahahahaha
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August 1, 2013 12:16pm
Left Right and Centre

kowtow 10:49 am Are you surprised that this is the opinion of a man who has not one, but two parents who are academics?
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August 1, 2013 12:19pm
Viking2

Judge MacAskill did not ask for a pre-sentence report on 42-year-old Earl, but has called for a reparation report on his ability to pay emotional harm reparations to Mrs Hubbard.

This Judge must have resided in another country these past few years.
He really can’t be serious about this after what the Hubbard’s did to thousands of people.

If if any money was granted one would expect creditors to grab it.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8989769/Forgiveness-for-guilty-Hubbard-crash-driver

The defence had referred to earlier driving incidents involving Mrs Hubbard, but Judge MacAskill said today

“Mrs Hubbard impressed me as a woman of intelligence and of sharp wits, unblunted by her years”.

Scheming Cow. and I reckon that the evidence is shonky when you look at it.
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August 1, 2013 12:24pm
kowtow

graham

Not just the Greens and Labour,had a look at the front of your Aotearoan passport?

It’s official. When did we vote for that?
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August 1, 2013 12:32pm
Viking2

so now we have another two bit poly telling those that know theirn stuff that they don’t know what they are talking about.

FFS where do we breed these stupid people.

Communications Minister Amy Adams has hit back at telecommunications and internet firms’ criticism of new spy laws, accusing them of presenting “misinformation” in their submissions to a parliamentary select committee.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8989999/Minister-slams-spy-bill-opposition
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August 1, 2013 12:34pm
Left Right and Centre

I like one-liners… now the rest.

Dr Rob Beaglehole, dentist.

Sugary drinks are the leading cause of obesity, type 2 diabetes and tooth decay.

Leading cause of obesity, huh? Sounds good… but based on what evidence exactly? Doesn’t tell you much about how much of a contribution sugary drinks make to anything, does it?

They cause the same level of harm as tobacco

Really? Drinking sugary drinks… apply any vague terms in between that you want… will cause things like lung cancer and asthma? Tobacco and sugary drinks are not the same, and nothing like the same. What’s the difference between wanting to ban sugary drinks and wanting to ban sugar?

Why sugary drinks and not sugar generally that are said to be the leading cause of tooth decay?

Unfortunately for Dr Rob Your Sugar…. yes you can have a sugary drink without guaranteeing 100% that said drink will lead to tooth decay and dentist’s visits. So a blanket ban is unjustified.
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August 1, 2013 12:36pm
nickb

Why sugary drinks and not sugar generally that are said to be the leading cause of tooth decay?

Dr Rob Bunghole is welcome to try and take my energy drinks from my cold, dead hands….
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August 1, 2013 12:40pm
Left Right and Centre

Here’s some examples of food/ drink items that can contribute to obesity without the consumption of sugary drinks:

bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, oats, breakfast cereals, drinking chocolate, flour, dairy products, meat, milk, alcohol, biscuits, potato chips, sweets, ice cream, cakes, nuts, seeds, peanut butter, margarine, jam, chocolate, hazelnut spreads, sauces, gravies, cooking oils, dressings…. and muesli bars.

I didn’t touch sugary drinks and I was overweight. What are you going to do, ban all food? Put a tag around your ankle and the food cops show up at the door to escort you on a 10km run to burn off the excess energy you naughtily ate over and above your daily state controlled food limit?
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August 1, 2013 12:47pm
Viking2

Viking2 (9,765) Says:
August 1st, 2013 at 7:22 am

Now, now Pete, stamping her tiny tootsies at this point doesn’t cut the mustard.
While I agree with her about secrecy and access it would be naive to assume that given her past associations, that she wasn’t aware that it could happen. After all her previous boss and his company were at the forefront of this behavoir.

She used the honey pot knowing full well that it would advantage her career and her papers readership. (A Natural consequence of her employment and justifiable.) That she and others are now caught up in this conspiracy of both silence, investigation and accusation comes right back to her door.
If she hadn’t of played the game she would not have got her fingers burnt.

In saying that I’m pleased she did for many Kiwi’s haven’t trusted politicians nor our security apparatus for a long time. That the Yanks used it to progress an illegal attack on a business person whose enemies had a commercial argument but managed to twist it to a conspiracy to defraud and that our hopeless govt. employed legal bods and the police who got sucked in just shows really high little regard these same people have for Kiwi sovereignty. (and I might add how appalling corrupt the american Justice system actually is. Might never makes right, it just creates bullies.)

Vance would have more credibility if she actually argued for more transparency among our elected, for more open govt. and much more community input in top legislation and the requirement for any Govt. to actually take note and act on that input.
Oh they listen all the time to a small group called maori and fall all over themselves to give to that group (the latest being the fishing boat bullshit from the iwi.), BUT they fail to act on public input that says we don’t want, don’t like various other issues, a prime example being the GSCB bill and we can add things like smacking etc. Key has consistently thumbed his nose at voters and unfortunately people like KS and many others are sucked into this.

That’s not to say Key hasn’t done lots of good stuf,f he has, but when it comes to listening to Kiwi’s he doesn’t and will blatantly ignore what the public are saying hoping that the good overrides the bad and we won’t remember.

That’s why he needs your man and the Maori’s for despite great favourites in the poles the Nats will struggle to return to Govt.
It’s not all about feel good but it’s also about peoples saftey, security, place to live and food in their bellies.

everything is now getting scrutinized because there are so many clear breaches of trust between politicians and the people that vote them in and who PAY their wages to ACT in the voters interests. The problem is the those interests are being sublimated to others. Lika the film industry.
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August 1, 2013 12:48pm
dime

LR&C – peanut butter is pretty good for you.

a tablespoon at night gives you some protein and good fats. the fats slow down the release of protein over night.

did i just make that up? google and find out 😀
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August 1, 2013 12:57pm
wikiriwhis business

FaceBook comment

Andrew Johnstone
“In New Zealand there are people who’ve been trained for al-Qaeda camps who operate out of New Zealand, who are in contact with people overseas, who have gone off to Yemen and other countries to train”.
-John Key.

I remember Muldoon making similar claims about Gaddafi’s Libya training Maori separatists. Its a theme that reeks of desperation, justifying the unjustifiable. Fear will always find a following. Bad move PM, it proves that you are lacking integrity.
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August 1, 2013 1:04pm
wikiriwhis business

“LR&C – peanut butter is pretty good for you. ”

I wouldn’t eat US peanut butter or their cereals
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August 1, 2013 1:05pm
kowtow

BWAV

Put fat ugly toothless people on labels.

Are you volunteering?
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August 1, 2013 1:05pm
dime

WHAT THE F%^$

page3.com seems to have gone behind a pay wall thing.
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August 1, 2013 1:11pm
Left Right and Centre

dime 12:57 pm gday padre-

I was looking up peanut butter earlier on. As it was loading I was on the edge of my seat in eager anticipation…. if this shit is low carb I have hit the fucking jackpot

Sadly… no. 20g/100g or something. Bugger. It’s just kind of safe in small amounts if you’re going to go full low-carb. I won’t bother with that crap until I’ve run this experiment for a while.

Also off the the list or in much lower quantities… fruit, Pepsi Max… the sweeteners are ‘preferable’ to avoid apparently… still got to keep the milk low due to milk sugar… which means my reason for restricting simply shifts from ‘energy value’ to ‘keep carbs low’.. what else? No more pumpkin seeds. No more oats.

But in theory I can eat as much meat and cream as I want. No wonder you call it ‘blah’. Did you have a sandwich today? heh

Fuck one tablespoon…. whole jar or nothing… hahahahaha
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August 1, 2013 1:15pm
RRM

the current names will probably go the way of Mount Egmont

Mountains are a bit different, there’s an explorer’s / surveyor’s custom of making a real effort to find out the local name for a mountain, that goes back to before New Zealand was invented. (C.f. British survey in India and the Himalayas)
Cook should have really observed this with Mt Taranaki, his predecessors would have.

This te ika a maui thing will be no different than Aotearoa/New Zealand. A few dreadlocked white/beige people will make a real effort to use the lingo, for everyone else it will remain the north island and the south island.
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August 1, 2013 1:27pm
dime

LR&C – artifical sweeteners can slow down fat loss if you have more than about 500ml a day of diet coke or whatever.

the body thinks sugar is coming and insulin spikes or some such.

it wont make you gain weight.. just slow weight loss.
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August 1, 2013 1:36pm
thedavincimode

How about a compromise so that we can avoid those tongue twisters: Te North Island and Te South Island?
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August 1, 2013 1:36pm
Left Right and Centre

dime 1:36 pm yeah- that’s nice. This is an exact repeat of the second week in Oct when I read about kilojoules and food energy and the penny dropped. And 15-20kg dropped. Been there, done that once. This is the second wave of dieting and third phase of my food life. Nothng/ overweight> counting calories> low-carb.

What’s the carb limit per day do you reckon to not put on weight? I’m going to have to start getting it right down, so I’ll be going lower anyway… but it would be useful to know. Could even have a porridge day. I’m reading about it… but I want your take.

It’s a sad day when you start looking at apples and bananas sideways questioningly.
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August 1, 2013 1:47pm
Pete George

There’s a story about surveyor (John Turnbull Thomson) who went through Central Otago naming creeks as much as possible using local names. Then when he returned to base the surveying authorities disapproved of native names. To spite them Thomson changed them all to animal names (using his Northumbrian dialect).

Hence Eweburn, Kyeburn, Gimmerburn, Hoggetburn, Sowburn, Wedderburn etc.

Apparently the area is still sometimes known Thomson’s Barnyard. I’ve never heard it called that, but it’s mostly in Maniototo and I’m from a couple of valleys (and mountain ranges) away.

Ranfurly was originally going to be called Eweburn.
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August 1, 2013 1:56pm
Manolo

Look at this bugger trying to defend the indefensible: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/31/republicans-press-new-fbi-director-on-benghazi-probe/
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August 1, 2013 1:59pm
dime

LR&C – why do you want to go low carb?

How much do you weigh? 80kegs?

Youre doing a ton of exercise right? you shouldnt need to go low carb imho.

check this out:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbinfo.php?page=MaleTransformation

look at the dudes who went from 20% body fat to competition shape. see what they eat.

tons of articles on there about dieting, cutting diets, how to get your macros right etc
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August 1, 2013 2:14pm
Kea

Low carb is bullshit. It is just another silly trend promoted by people selling books and diets. I have force fed myself huge amounts of carbs to provide energy for exercise. The weight fell of me until I had veins standing out on my abs.

Studies have been done that on all the popular diets. The unsurprising result is that the determining factor is calories. Many different diets work, but energy consumed is the deciding factor. What is a healthy balanced diet is another topic.
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August 1, 2013 2:48pm
Left Right and Centre

dime 2:14 pm Exercise: July 2013 340kms @ 4’55” per km average. Piss around with weights at home. 2-3 hours dancing per week.. hahahaha… I’m so butch!!

80-85kg range. Why low-carb? The big carrot… or steak… is that the things that you are allowed to eat, you can eat in limitless quantities apparently. When counting calories that’s a big no-no. That’s the big attraction.

Bodybuilding… yeah, well.. I’m not a bodybuilder. They also do things like cut water leading up to competition day and who knows what else to eek out every last striation. They is hardcore.

Did you see on Stuff a gym dude who busts the whole before and after picture industry?

I was having a good time shit-flinging with ‘The Scorned’ about low-carb vs counting calories. The thing is… there’s a lot of crossover between the two anyway. So when you say ‘you don’t need to do it’…. a lot of what it does I’ve been doing anyway. When you count calories, how do you keep them down? Low calorie foods. They’re low calorie, why? Less of everything. Less fat. Less protein. Less **carbs**. Bingo. Low-carb should be an upgrade because you can eat as much as you want… in theory.

As per above… would have to restrict milk using either CICO or low-carb diet. Energy equation and milk sugar respectively.

This is it for me.. it can’t be worse than what I’ve been doing, so it’s worth a shot.

And it’s a new experience. I can say ‘I tried that low-carb shit’. Just like I tried losing weight.
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August 1, 2013 2:49pm
Kea

“2-3 hours dancing per week.”

LRC is a poofter !!! 😉

Given his people skills I would love to know who he dances with…
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August 1, 2013 2:52pm
Left Right and Centre

Kea 2:48 pm I reckon they make a pretty good case- I might be a new convert. It does sound too good to be true…

So… you don’t accept the theory of carbs> insulin> fat storage? I’m about to run the experiment on myself so we’ll have to wait and find out what happens. I’ve given up counting calories today. When I get to the supermarket and start doing crazy shit like buying butter, cream and bacon… this thing is going to get real. I’m uneasy but I’ll be fascinated to see if it works. Just like I was when I thought it was CICO working.
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August 1, 2013 2:56pm
Left Right and Centre

Kea 2:52 pm I just grind away in the mirror to good sounds. I’d love to be a good dancer. I’ve got the right figure now too.
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August 1, 2013 3:02pm
Kea

LRC, to tell the truth I think there may be some merit in the “carbs> insulin> fat storage?” thing.

There have been some surprising results around exercise too, which also factor into this. Eating and then doing intense exercise (even for very brief periods) has been shown to have a marked effect in how things are metabolised in some individuals.
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August 1, 2013 3:06pm
Left Right and Centre

Kea 3:06 pm I was doing that on Friday!! Eating sugar and real biscuits.. I must be a poof.. I can bake too… and then smashing out squat reps all night long. Weight seemed to rebound quite well afterwards. Squats seem to be a miracle worker. One of my weight loss kilos magically disappeared never to be seen since after a session once.
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August 1, 2013 3:14pm
Kea

LRC, squats are the king of exercise. You feel like you are dying when you do them (if you are doing it right) but you will get results. They may cure your tendencies towards gay things like dancing and biscuit eating too 😉
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August 1, 2013 3:24pm
dime

Squats, Deadlifts & bench press are the holy trinity.

10 x 10 squat training will almost end your life.
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August 1, 2013 3:28pm
Kea

You see LRC, this is why dime can root hookers, make lots of money & drink all night ! 🙂
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August 1, 2013 3:33pm
Left Right and Centre

Kea 3:24 pm As you know they’re inherently dodgy for your back, and one day my back was rooted from doing deadlifts so I stopped to let it recover. Still don’t deadlift and dropped the weight on the old seated squats down to 70kg from 87kg. Which isn’t much.. but at least you can do say 10-20 sets at 10-20 reps at 70 for 200 reps all up.. drop to 60 and do another 300 reps over a few hours. And then you might get a bit of thigh cramp when running…. and even have to ‘drag’ the legs a bit to keep it down. It’s all good fun. Some people say that exercise hardly burns any energy at all and that it’s effectively a total waste of time from a pure energy equation perspective.
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August 1, 2013 3:35pm

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