General Debate 15 August 2013

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Dennis Horne

City council candidate ‘too attractive’ for Iranian politics. Nina Siahkali Moradi, 27, was barred from taking up her seat in Qazvin by the conservative electoral review board.

Time for Kea to step up, give her a seeing to and sort it all out.
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August 15, 2013 8:01am
Chuck Bird

Homosexual paedophile to be sentenced today

I wonder if that filthy homosexual paedophile will get preventive detention like he deserves. I cannot imagine the excuses some lawyer no doubt paid by Legal Aid will make for him.

I can see the liberals on this blog say he is not really a paedophile because of the age of his victims. They may technically correct if one accepts a sematic argument. Some may also argue that he is not a homosexual because he is a bisexual. I say their arguments are nonsense and so I think many of the victim’s parents would agree.

If John Key was really concerned about boys being sexual abused he would not promote homosexuality.
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August 15, 2013 8:01am
Chuck Bird

@Dennis

I would like to see her in a bikini.
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August 15, 2013 8:07am
martinh

It was so good to see John Campbell ending up getting emotional last night.
Key really showed him up for being a blowhard rather than an informed journalist.

Campbell should just get on with it and join the Greens now.
Impartial journalism is what i want
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August 15, 2013 8:09am
kowtow

Behind the headlines , Muslims are burning down Churches in Egypt. But as it’s not “rednecks” doing it in Mississippi the MSM don’t are.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/08/egypt-muslim-brotherhood-supporters-torch-three-churches.html
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August 15, 2013 8:11am
Keeping Stock

Agree wholeheartedly martinh – I would go as far as to say that it was one of the most impressive interviews that Key has given in almost five years as PM; he was absolutely in command. Labour must absolutely dread the thought of putting David Shearer up against him next year.

In the meantime, Key has pretty much killed the anti-GCSB campaign. Sure, there’ll be more shrieking from the usual suspects and the Large German Gentleman, but John Key answered the hysteria last night with cold, hard facts.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/08/so-much-for-campbell-live-campaign.html
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August 15, 2013 8:13am
Ashley Schaeffer

City council candidate ‘too attractive’ for Iranian politics.

We’d never have need for a such a rule here.
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August 15, 2013 8:13am
Kea

08:11 and the daily anti-Muslim rant has begun from the resident God squad. (They started late today)

In order to keep with the spirit of things I might start each day by linking to an article about the Jewish-question.
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August 15, 2013 8:19am
Kea

Israeli War Crimes Cannot Be Ignored

The United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) has formally concluded that Israel’s settlements in the West Bank violate international law and has called for the immediate withdrawal of all settlers.

The report issued by the HRC finds Israel in violation of sections of Article VIII of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, most notably those forbidding: “The transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.”

Article VIII is the chapter describing war crimes.

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2013/02/israeli-war-crimes-cannot-be-ignored
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August 15, 2013 8:22am
Judith

That is quite true, attractive women tend to not do well in politics or business, as they have to first struggle with male preoccupation with their looks. It is very hard to make a deal fit when the person you are talking to can’t take their eyes off your cleavage.

(well that’s my excuse for not being P.M. anyway! :P)
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August 15, 2013 8:22am
Kea

Exposing Israel’s Whitewash in NZ

The purpose of Israel’s having an embassy in Wellington is to whitewash its exploitation, terrorism and war crimes in New Zealand, and abroad.

Israel’s continued war crimes and terrorism relies on the following whitewash agendas;

•Promoting Israeli Nationalism to justify continual exploitation of Palestinians and further expansion.
•Promoting the deception that Israel Nationalism is supported religiously by all Jews, to further inflate Nationalist sentiment.
•Pseudo-reformism – promote the illusion that they will stop exploiting Palestinians soon, but that it must be done slowly (never).
•Israel Blood-trade for NZ Good-will. New Zealand has a good clean international human rights image, and if Israel trades with us, they hope that some of our good-will is going to cleanse them of their war crimes. Conversely NZ’s good-will and image would become stained red. Israel would like to share & trade their ill-begotten exploits with New Zealand business.
•Promote apathy towards Palestinians & Iranians by not recognising their human rights, voice, or economic independence and keeping them out of NZ media.
•Make vain attempts to demonise anti-Israelis, with the desperate blind assumption that we must all be anti-Semitic, anti-Jew racists.

http://evolutionnews.co.nz/israelcrimes/

Are we having fun yet, singling out religious groups kowtow ? 🙂
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August 15, 2013 8:26am
jims_whare

I think Labour have it in their female candidate selection criteria – perhaps an unwritten rule?
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August 15, 2013 8:26am
stigie

What a great night we all had last night, John Key nailed Campbells arse and handed it back to him on a plate.

The sniverling creep was completely rattled and out of control. Good on you JK for telling the people of NZ the facts about

the GCSB rather than that prick giving disinformation out on his show.

Not too sure he will have JK back after being reamed so hard !!
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August 15, 2013 8:29am
Andrei

Behind the headlines , Muslims are burning down Churches in Egypt. But as it’s not “rednecks” doing it in Mississippi the MSM don’t are.

Also in Syria Kowtow – these would be crimes committed by Obama’s allies of course.
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August 15, 2013 8:40am
Kea

Andrei, good point. Obama, who leads the world biggest Christian country, a country that is currently occupying and bombing Muslim countries all over the world, is sponsoring the Muslim Brotherhood in secular Syria. Syria was the at the centre of Christianity for centuries and they were well respected. The Obama sponsored Muslim Brotherhood are now burning down Churches as they attempt to install Sharia law in Syria.

The kowtow’s of this world forget where Christianity originated. It was not in England and not in the USA. It was in places like Syria and Iraq. The people kowtow starts each day attacking are the children of the very first Christians. In Syria the language of Christ (Aramaic) is still spoken to this day.
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August 15, 2013 8:49am
liarbors a joke

Dont be silly Judith
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August 15, 2013 8:51am
flipper

I make no comment other than to note what the South African Rugby Union has jus announced:

*** SARU has announced.

” Following an executive council meeting on Monday it was decided that teams will need to have a minimum of seven players of colour in their matchday 22. At least five players must be in the starting XV and two of those need to be forwards. ”

Interesting, No?
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August 15, 2013 8:52am
Ashley Schaeffer

Equality of outcomes again flipper.
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August 15, 2013 8:56am
flipper

Kea says:

***The United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) has formally concluded that ..***

Care to detail the membership (and their HR record) of the UN HRC Kea?
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August 15, 2013 8:57am
Wayne91

MartinH – “Key really showed him up for being a blowhard rather than an informed journalist.”

Havn’t seen it yet but look forward to viewing it soon. This morning well known socialist Marcus Lush was absolutely raving in a positive way about John Keys performance saying he hasn’t seen anything like it from any New Zealand Leader ever. And then went on to say he has never and would never vote for John Key.

Furthermore Marcus Lush said that most people opposed to the GCSB changes just don’t like John Key.

I look forward to seeing John Campbell being right royally put in his place once again by John Key

And this from a well know leftie

” @JohnJCampbell Raving is not interviewing, John. A graceless and embarrassing performance. This from your greatest fan. Brian

— Brian Edwards (@DrBrianEdwards) August 14, 2013″

OUCH!
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August 15, 2013 9:02am
Kea

Care to detail the membership (and their HR record) of the UN HRC Kea?

flipper, I think the UN is one of the most corrupt organisations on earth. I think their treatment of Israel is unfair. But that is not the point I am making. There is criticism made of Israel. You can not just dismiss it out of hand while accepting every bit of anti Muslim propoganda uncritically.

Care to detail the membership of the US war machine ?

Care to detail the people who poured money into Obamas election campaign ? ( the expensive in human history)
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August 15, 2013 9:05am
Colville

That is quite true, attractive women tend to not do well in politics or business, as they have to first struggle with male preoccupation with their looks. It is very hard to make a deal fit when the person you are talking to can’t take their eyes off your cleavage.

So that is why Ardern cant win a seat?
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August 15, 2013 9:11am
kowtow

“Israeli war crimes can’t be ignored”

Spoken like a true Islamist.

“Jew jew jew, ” but let’s ignore the genocide that is Islam.
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August 15, 2013 9:19am
kowtow

Judith says attractive women struggle in politics.

That’s certainly true of Sarah Palin ,an attractive woman whom the feminists and left hate with red fury.And then hordes of thickos jump on the hate bandwagon.
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August 15, 2013 9:23am
flipper

stigie (149) Says:

August 15th, 2013 at 8:29 am
What a great night we all had last night, John Key nailed Campbells arse and handed it back to him on a plate.

The sniverling creep was completely rattled and out of control. Good on you JK for telling the people of NZ the facts about
******

Stigie,

I did not see the creep last evening, but I have now watched the full interview.

You are both correct and wrong – J Key did not hand his arse back on a plate.
He gutted the snivelling twerp like a fish, and then fed his guts and fillets down the garbage disposal unit.

Good stuff …and long overdue.
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August 15, 2013 9:24am
kowtow

I thought Key did very well. He bested the little prick on every turn. Campy didn’t like playing second fiddle on his own,biased show.

I expect TV3 to now ramp up it’s anti Key anti GCSB propaganda campaign a notch or 2.

They don’t like it up ’em.
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August 15, 2013 9:27am
flipper

Kea, you say:

*** Care to detail the membership of the US war machine ?

Care to detail the people who poured money into Obamas election campaign ? ( the expensive in human history)..”***

Your sobriquet is a misnomer Kea.
A real raptor has a bigger brain than you.
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August 15, 2013 9:28am
Colville

Just finished watching the PM spank Campbell.
It is rare for Key to really step up and smash someone, he (I think) likes to let people underrate him and that is a great ploy.
Imagine being David Shearer sitting on the couch at home watching that. He would have pissed his pants. 🙂
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August 15, 2013 9:30am
flipper

Ashley S…
Yep 🙂
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August 15, 2013 9:31am
Colville

Kowtow. Palin struggles because she is as dumb as a sack of hammers and has a message few want to listen to.
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August 15, 2013 9:33am
Kea

flipper, I see you are a bit uncomfortable answering my question, as expected.

~~“Jew jew jew, ”~~ Muslim muslim muslim, but let’s ignore the genocide that is ~~Islam~~ Zionism.

kowtow, Two can play your silly game. I was just speaking with a Christian Minister about this. Unsurprisingly he does not share your hysterical view of the Middle East and does share mine. The people you spend so much time villainizing are the direct decendants of the biblical people and pray to the very same god. Christianity is NOT a Western European thing. It is a Middle Eastern thing. You should remember that before playing favourites with abrahamic religions.
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August 15, 2013 9:39am
leftyliberal

@Keeping Stock: Agreed that JK did well in the interview. He was patient and kept well to his talking points. Campbell missed several crucial points. The “antivirus” argument that Key was pushing is the essential flaw in the law as currently drafted. i.e. it’s section 15/16 where things are open to abuse.

http://techliberty.org.nz/gcsb-spying-on-new-zealanders

You don’t have to be a conspiracy nut to be concerned about this: Consider if someone like Andrew Little (hopefully unlikely) were to one day be Prime Minister and thus have the power to grant the GSCB a warrant for blanket surveillance over NZers. It would be completely legal to do so under this law.
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August 15, 2013 9:39am
Colville

flipper @8.52.
Best news I have heard in ages.

Really looking forward to seeing Ewen McKenzie cry this weekend:-)
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August 15, 2013 9:41am
flipper

Kea says:

Kea (6,734) Says:

August 15th, 2013 at 9:39 am
flipper, I see you are a bit uncomfortable answering my question, as expected.

“Jew jew jew, ” Muslim muslim muslim, but let’s ignore the genocide that is Islam Zionism.
*****

You are one sick raptor
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August 15, 2013 9:46am
gravedodger

@ judith 8 22, so does that explain the Mysoginist fixation of the media intent on denigrating Abbott, continuing to employ pics of him in his ‘budgie smugglers.

Any female with her cleavage exposed to the extent of possibility of an escape attempt by one of the puppies is going to have an impact on any man with a trickle of red blood in his veins should a sudden cramp cause violent movement.

If it is a problem wear less revealing clothes.

Similar, the mildly intemperate remark on the very presentable Lib Candidate in Western Sydney by Abbott that inspired a day long feeding frenzy within the bored sh*tless media scrum.

There are plenty of women out there who swoon over a well presented sixpac Ab and him being gay wont stop them.
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August 15, 2013 9:48am
david

kowtow is on to it.

Key has obviously thrown down the gauntlet to the media in general and has effectively started the election campaign with that interview.

Now that they have been challenged, those who consider themselves to be journalists will ramp up their hype and anti-Key rhetoric in an attempt to do what Mike Smith and the Labour Party tried to do but crashed and burned in 2008 and 2011.

Watch out for more manufactured stories like “who will succeed John Key” and gird your loins guys, we are all going to be sick of it by this time next year.

Oh for some intelligent analysis and commentary in our media, it is becoming very hard to maintain the energy to counter the fluff, mush and outright bullshit being peddled at the moment. It just wears you down.
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August 15, 2013 9:56am
flipper

And more on…
***
Kea (6,734) Says:

August 15th, 2013 at 9:39 am
flipper, I see you are a bit uncomfortable answering my question, as expected.

“Jew jew jew, ” Muslim muslim muslim, but let’s ignore the genocide that is Islam Zionism.
*****
Merriam-Webster says:
geno·cide
noun \ˈje-nə-ˌsīd\

Definition of GENOCIDE

: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

— geno·cid·al adjective
…
See genocide defined for English-language learners »

See genocide defined for kids »

First Known Use of GENOCIDE

1944

****

So, Kea ….. Israel is engaged in “.. the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group”… is it?

Fuck wit!
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August 15, 2013 10:05am
Pete George

Journalist comments on Twitter are overwhelmingly of the view that Key whalloped Campbell big time. It will be interesting to see how Campbell comes back from this tonight.
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August 15, 2013 10:06am
James Stephenson

an article about the Jewish-question.

Which question is that? What’s the best recipe for Chicken Soup?
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August 15, 2013 10:11am
Kea

flipper, what on earth has genocide got to do with it ? If you want to go down that path you should first look at who is being bombed and killed. It aint the Jews.
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August 15, 2013 10:13am
flipper

Kea, go read your own posts.
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August 15, 2013 10:18am
Manolo

Bill & Hillary, a pair of crooks to the last bit: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/us/politics/unease-at-clinton-foundation-over-finances-and-ambitions.html?_r=0
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August 15, 2013 10:24am
Kea

flipper, I took your advice and read my own posts. What I found was an atheist who treats people as individuals and does not group people by religion. A person who does not think one particualar group is worthy of special consideration.
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August 15, 2013 10:38am
wikiriwhis business

This is how John Key works as well

Obama Will Sign UN Gun Treaty While Congress Is On Vacation

by Alan M. Gottlieb

Obama believes now is the best time to sign the UN Gun Treaty since Congress is out of Washington. He will have less scrutiny to worry about if Congress is not nearby. He also thinks the public eye is not paying attention too closely. It is the slow summer months, people are on vacation, Congress is out of Washington so nothing must be happening.

NOTE (ACTION): We CAN stop this international treaty from reaching American soil by killing it the United States Senate. The U.S Senate must ratify an international treaty for it to be effective. They would need 67 votes to ratify the treaty. Reach every U.S. Senator at their home office; tell them you do not want this treaty in OUR United States!

Continue reading here: http://www.asheepnomore.net/2013/08/obama-will-sign-un-gun-treaty-while.html
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August 15, 2013 10:41am
backster

In the interests of multiculturalism Maybe that Mozzie girl could be brought out to stand against Len{figuratively).
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August 15, 2013 10:52am
Fletch

For a detailed look at the land known as the West Bank and who owns it, and the subject of “illegal settlements” this is good reading. It includes a history of the infamous Article 49(6) from the Fourth Geneva Convention which many use as a basis for arguing that Israel is going against the convention with its “illegal settlements”. When you look at the history of the article and of other articles that precede it (such as 49(1)), it looks like it is interpreted wrongly by opponents of Israel.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/the-illegal-settlements-myth/
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August 15, 2013 11:31am
Fletch

@wikiriwhis business,

Also after Obama was briefed of the strife happening in Egypt, what did he do? Hit the golf links of course!

http://twitchy.com/2012/06/24/priorities-obama-plays-101st-game-of-golf-as-fires-burn-egypt-elects-member-of-muslim-brotherhood/

The man is seriously the worst president the US has ever had.
Living it up on the taxpayer dime with vacation after vacation.
He even had his dog flown in separately to the holiday home by helicopter –

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2389715/Obama-familys-dog-Bo-flown-private-helicopter-join-First-Familys-vacation-Marthas-Vineyard.html
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August 15, 2013 11:35am
Fletch

US Airmen punished for not sharing the point of view the gay marriage is OK.

Monk has served as a first sergeant at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio since 2011. He recently returned from a deployment and discovered he had a new commander – an open lesbian.

“In one of our first meetings, she was talking about her promotion and she mentioned something about a benediction,” Monk told Fox News. “She said she wanted a chaplain but objected to one particular chaplain that she called a bigot because he preached that homosexuality is a sin.”

“She then said, ‘I don’t know what kind of people actually believe that kind of crap,’” Monk said, recalling the meeting. “I knew I was going to have a rough time in this unit and I would have to be very careful what I said.”

That moment came when Monk was called in to advise the commander on a disciplinary matter involving an Air Force instructor accused of making comments objecting to gay marriage.

The instructor was investigated and the members of his trainees were asked if the instructor had slandered homosexuals and whether he created a hostile work environment.
Monk said he quickly determined the instructor meant no harm by his public comments – comparing the United States with the fall of the Roman Empire.
“He said in spite of our differences, we can’t let that happen to the United States,” Monk said. “He then used homosexual marriage as an example – saying that he didn’t believe in it – but it doesn’t matter because he was going to train them the same way.”

Seven people filed complaints about the remarks. It then became Monk’s job to advise the commander on disciplinary action.
“Her very first reaction was to say, ‘we need to lop off the head of this guy,’” Monk said. “The commander took the position that his speech was discrimination.”
Monk suggested she use the incident as a learning experience – a way to teach everyone about tolerance and diversity.

“I don’t believe someone having an opinion for or against homosexuality is discriminatory,” Monk told Fox News.

From that point, Monk said he was told that he wasn’t on the same page as the commander and if I didn’t get on the page they were on, they would find another place for me to work.”

“I’m being chastised about what’s going on,” he said. “I’m told that members of the Air Force don’t have freedom of speech. They don’t have the right to say anything that goes against Air Force policy.”

Monk, who is a devout evangelical Christian, said he met with the young instructor and told him that he was fighting for him.
“He was really concerned,” he said. “He said he felt like he was on an island – that he couldn’t be who he is anymore. He didn’t understand why somebody would be offended.”
The instructor was eventually punished by having a letter of counseling placed in his official file.

Monk soon found himself in a very similar position after his commander ordered him to answer a question about whether people who object to gay marriage are guilty of discrimination.

“She said, ‘Sgt. Monk, I need to know if you can, as my first sergeant, if you can see discrimination if somebody says that they don’t agree with homosexual marriage,’” he said. “I refused to answer the question.”

Monk said to answer would have put him in a legal predicament.
“And as a matter of conscience I could not answer the question the way the commander wanted me to,” he said.
At that point, Monk said that perhaps it would be best if he went on leave. The commander agreed.

“I was essentially fired for not validating my commander’s position on having an opinion about homosexual marriage,” he said.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/airmen-punished-for-objecting-to-gay-marriage.html

It is going to happen more and more. As he says later on in the same article, it is going to be like Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell for Christians, who will have to hide their Christian views and stifle their free speech in order to get along and not be fired.

Heaven knows what it will be like here in NZ after the law is changed.
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August 15, 2013 11:42am
bereal

This piece by one Paul Casserly illustrates why the New Zealand Herald is dying fast.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10912740

This drong may just as well concluded with, “Well done John Campbell, great job, no one could
have done better. I love you John, your the best interrviewer in the country.”

If you do click on the link, see how far into his report you can get before you need to puke.
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August 15, 2013 12:40pm
Colville

Fletch @ 11.42.

Either do what your employer wants or leave your job. Is that too complex?
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August 15, 2013 1:02pm
liarbors a joke

Douglas Montrose Graham , we thank you…

http://1law4all.co.nz/2013/08/15/its-time-to-take-back-the-racist-quota-from-the-tribal-elite/
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August 15, 2013 1:31pm
wf

bereal – it was more interesting than the interview, that’s for sure. And a quick scroll down looking at the 20-odd pages comments, and their ‘likes’ shows that most people thought that Campbell acted like a pillock.

Key kept his smile glued in place, and his fists on his side of the table. I would have walked out, lol.

In view of the confirmation of the sale of Mediaworks, one wonders if Campbell was trying to confirm his position as something other than a light-weight in the tv world.
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August 15, 2013 2:05pm
Kea

So far we have the resident soldiers of Christ throwing stones at queers & Muslims. I wonder who will be next…
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August 15, 2013 2:08pm
Chuck Bird

“So far we have the resident soldiers of Christ throwing stones at queers & Muslims.”

What evidence do you have that I am a soldier of Christ?

It seems okay to rubbish Maori because they are overrepresented in some bad statistics but when one points out that homosexuals are overrepresented in the abuse of underage children the liberals start childish name calling.
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August 15, 2013 2:19pm
Ashley Schaeffer

So this morning I finally got around to deleting my RSS feed to Stuff.co.nz. I have been meaning to do it for a while because the sheer volume of mind-numbing dross on that site was just getting too much and so many of the articles are really poorly written. But finding a decent New Zealand alternative is not that easy. There just isn’t that much about that doesn’t follow the same infotainment formula that Stuff promotes. So for now, I’m going to give the NewsTalkZB News site a go and see what I get dished up. I enjoy listening to NewsTalkZB from time to time, so I’m hoping that might translate into a more enjoyable news read for me as well. We’ll see.

Any other suggestions out there?
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August 15, 2013 2:30pm
liarbors a joke

“One of New Zealand’s most prolific paedophiles has been sentenced to preventive detention with a minimum term of imprisonment of seven years.”

Hang on, I thought PD was a lifetime in prison…but goes on to say a minimum 7 years imprisonment..??

WTF ? What a wank justice system.
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August 15, 2013 2:33pm
Manolo

In two weeks you’ll be sick of hearing this do-gooder crap: http://www.caritas.org.nz/schools/social-justice-schools
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August 15, 2013 2:38pm
Chuck Bird

“One of New Zealand’s most prolific paedophiles has been sentenced to preventive detention with a minimum term of imprisonment of seven years.”

There was a worst one some time ago from Onehunga. He was also a homosexual and from memory was found guilty on thousands of charges with hundreds of victims.
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August 15, 2013 2:53pm
Changeiscoming

John Key stated last night on TV 3 that they do polling every Monday and Tuesday. What I would like to know is who does that and who is paying? The tax payer or the National Party?
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August 15, 2013 3:00pm
muggins

Judith (3,610) Says:

August 15th, 2013 at 8:22 am
That is quite true, attractive women tend to not do well in politics or business, as they have to first struggle with male preoccupation with their looks. It is very hard to make a deal fit when the person you are talking to can’t take their eyes off your cleavage.

Hmmm.
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August 15, 2013 3:05pm
F E Smith

Hang on, I thought PD was a lifetime in prison…but goes on to say a minimum 7 years imprisonment..??

WTF ? What a wank justice system.

Have a think about what the word ‘minimum ‘ means. Then remember that google is your friend.
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August 15, 2013 3:13pm
liarbors a joke

Minimum..maximum…it doesn’t matter…I thought PD was permanent time in prison without release…or is that just bullshit we have been fed by lying politicians.
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August 15, 2013 3:19pm
Manolo

Coincidence or not? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/14/journalist-michael-hastings-reportedly-working-on-story-about-cia-chief-before/
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August 15, 2013 3:20pm
F E Smith

I thought PD was permanent time in prison without release…or is that just bullshit we have been fed by lying politicians

It is neither of those. It is a misunderstanding on your part.

A sentence of Preventive Detention has no end date; a person serving a sentence of Preventive Detention may be paroled after they have served their MPI (the minimum is 5 years), but they are on lifetime parole and may be recalled at any time. It is also possible that the offender might never be released. That latter part is the ‘lifetime’ sentence that many think it is, but it is an incorrect way to think about the sentence.

It is better to think of it as an open-ended sentence with an MPI but no fixed release date.
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August 15, 2013 3:31pm
SGA

@F E Smith @3:31

Is there a functional difference between Preventative Detention and a “life sentence” (say for murder). Is PD sort of a version of a “life sentence” but for crimes that don’t demand a life sentence? Excuse my ignorance.
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August 15, 2013 3:38pm
Fletch

Fletch @ 11.42.

Either do what your employer wants or leave your job. Is that too complex?

Colville, my employer has no right to fire me (the hypothetical ‘me’) on grounds of what I believe or do not believe in terms of my religion. That is free speech. Especially if my beliefs do not affect my work in any way. It is just another way for liberals to enforce their group-think on everyone else with the threat of job termination. They are effectively asking me to think the way they do or else: to abandon my beliefs and conform.

Well I’m sorry; as long as I am doing my job, it is no business of anyone else as to what I believe. I bet they wouldn’t try doing the same to a Muslim.

Just because something is the law, doesn’t make it right or moral. It should be but it isn’t. I think people get confused with that.
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August 15, 2013 3:50pm
F E Smith

SGA,

Good question. There is a difference, although functionally not as large as the difference in purpose. A life sentence is primarily a penalty, whereas the Sentencing Act tells us that :

The purpose of preventive detention is to protect the community from those who pose a significant and ongoing risk to the safety of its members.

There is also a procedure required to be undergone before a sentence of Preventive Detention can be imposed. It is a sentence that looks more at what the prisoner is likely to do rather than what he/she has previously done.

The sentences are similar in that they both have no set release date and any person subject to either sentence who is released on parole is subject to potential recall for life.

There is more, but really that is most of what is important.
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August 15, 2013 3:55pm
bereal

The difference is…

The sentence of life without the possibility of parole (as in many states in the USA for e.g.) means
the offender will never be released and will die in prison.

Preventative detention (as in NZ) means that after the minimum period is served the
offender may be released at some stage.

K.I.S.S.

F E Smith can try polishing the turd forever but it will never shine.
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August 15, 2013 4:53pm
nasska

Bereal

I’ll happily concede that Wikipedia is not the Holy Grail of reliable facts but this should give some useful info.

….”In New Zealand, “preventive detention” is an indeterminate life sentence, and is handed down to individuals convicted of violent and/or sexual crimes (such as sociopathic murderers, serial rapists or recidivist pedophiles) where it is likely that the offender will reoffend if released. Such individuals will only receive parole if they can demonstrate they no longer pose a threat to the community. In October 2010, a total of 269 prisoners in New Zealand were serving terms of preventive detention.

Preventive detention has a minimum non-parole period of five years in prison, but the sentencing judge can extend this if they believe that the prisoner’s history warrants it. Prisoners on preventive detention are very rarely, if ever, released, and generally persons given the sentence are kept in prison for life. Currently only 16 of the 269 persons serving sentences of preventive detention are on parole.[10]

The longest non-parole period on a sentence of preventive detention is one of 26 years, being served by Graeme Burton, who killed two people and injured four others between 1992-2007.

Currently, New Zealand’s longest serving inmate, Alfred Thomas Vincent, who became eligible for parole in 1975, is still serving a sentence of preventive detention after 43 years.”….

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventive_detention
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August 15, 2013 5:45pm
Reid

Currently, New Zealand’s longest serving inmate, Alfred Thomas Vincent, who became eligible for parole in 1975, is still serving a sentence of preventive detention after 43 years.”….

I thought PD only came in in the 1990’s?
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August 15, 2013 6:35pm
nasska

First introduced in 1954 & amended in 2002 Reid.
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August 15, 2013 6:44pm
bereal

Thanks naaska.

Last time this matter came up F E Smith claimed that NZ did have a sentence of, ‘life without
parole.’ i dissagreed.

We do not.

i agree preventative detention may in some circumstances turn out to be that, as in the case
of Alfred Vincent. (But even Vincent may get out one day when he is deemed not to be a threat to
society due to frailty and old age, however he would be so instutionalised by then that he may
rather stay inside.)

This is different from ‘Life without the possibility of parole’ in the USA where you are certain to
die in jail.

Or even Australia which does have life without parole, they call it ‘Never to be released.’ there are several
criminals in Australia that have received that sentence and all of them will die in jail. For a certainty.

The first paragraph of the explanation of preventative detention you reproduced shows that parole is always
possible in NZ

Very rarely, if ever, does not mean never.
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August 15, 2013 6:58pm
Reid

Either do what your employer wants or leave your job. Is that too complex?

Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and by many state constitutions and state and federal laws. The freedom of speech is not absolute; the Supreme Court of the United States has recognized several categories of speech that are excluded from the freedom, and it has recognized that governments may enact reasonable time, place, or manner restrictions on speech.

Criticism of the government and advocacy of unpopular ideas that people may find distasteful or against public policy are almost always permitted. There are exceptions to these general protections, including the Miller test for obscenity, child pornography laws, speech that incites imminent lawless action, and regulation of commercial speech such as advertising. Within these limited areas, other limitations on free speech balance rights to free speech and other rights, such as rights for authors and inventors over their works and discoveries (copyright and patent), protection from imminent or potential violence against particular persons (restrictions on fighting words), or the use of untruths to harm others (slander). Distinctions are often made between speech and other acts which may have symbolic significance.

So according to the First Amendment, first sergeant Monk is fine. What’s not fine is the news-speak that, knowing how language matters in terms of shifting opinion over time, refuses to allow the expression of ideas that threaten to destabilise a revolutionary movement they’ve got going in the social engineering field. That’s not allowed.

Preventing this is why the First Amendment was created. But people seem to forget that, thus demonstrating that those people in particular, actually deserve tyranny and oppression, because they’re too weak-minded and weak-willed to (a) perceive it and (b) stand up against it.

It’s a shame this attitude exists amongst some even in this day and age, where you’d think at least something from the vast pool of free information detailing the perils and the cure would have been consumed and noted. But then again, they probably haven’t even read this, either:

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

To those who aren’t willing to exercise that right, can I just say: I hope your children enjoy the prison camps.
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August 15, 2013 6:58pm
nasska

I was reading an article on Vincent & interviews with his victims Bereal. Ref: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6997983/Victims-still-hurting-44-years-after-sex-abuse

As usual Kim (I never met a deviant crim I didn’t like) Workman reckons that society should be honoured to accept him back in their midst but it seems that in this case he might actually die in prison.

The prospect won’t keep me awake at nights.
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August 15, 2013 7:05pm
Colville

lprent is in a banning mood over at the Stranded. Any one that says JK pwned Campy and they are outttaaathere!
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August 15, 2013 7:16pm
F E Smith

Last time this matter came up F E Smith claimed that NZ did have a sentence of, ‘life without parole.’ i dissagreed.

Can you give me a link to this, please. I can’t find it and I want to see the context of what I said.
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August 15, 2013 7:18pm
nickb

Can you give me a link to this, please.

I think beryl might have just had one too many Red Ruby’s F E. I wouldn’t worry.
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August 15, 2013 7:21pm
nickb

lprent is in a banning mood over at the Stranded. Any one that says JK pwned Campy and they are outttaaathere!

I didn’t doubt you, but looked for myself and was amazed at the extremes they had taken it to, even by their standards.

Tamati says:

Game, Set, Match, Key

[lprent: Looks like simple trolling. Simple solution – a ban for a week. ]

dumrse says:

Campbell’s barrow has lost its wheels.

[lprent: Simple trolling. Simple solution – a ban for a week. ]

lmao
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August 15, 2013 7:24pm
F E Smith

ok, cheers Nick.
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August 15, 2013 7:33pm
nasska

They don’t handle life’s disappointments very well at The Standard do they? 🙂
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August 15, 2013 7:37pm
nasska

Just the normal chain of events? 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z0qq010ojfe2qbz/Natural%20sequence.png
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August 15, 2013 7:54pm
Chuck Bird

“As usual Kim (I never met a deviant crim I didn’t like) Workman reckons that society should be honoured to accept him back in their midst but it seems that in this case he might actually die in prison.

The prospect won’t keep me awake at nights. ”

Another homosexual paedophile but no one wants to speak of the elephant in the room.
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August 15, 2013 8:08pm
Tauhei Notts

Different subject but here goes.

An Australian investment advisor, when considering the latest Commonwealth Bank of Australia annual result commented;
“One small but intriguing note: profits from New Zealand (ASB Bank and Sovereign) operations were up 17% to $635m. The Aussie banks’ exposure to New Zealand is a secret back door through which a property crisis might make its way onto the balance sheet. And there could certainly be a property crisis in New Zealand any day now. Why?

Earlier this week the Reserve Bank Of N.Z. announced tools it might use to deflate the property bubble. And it is clearly a bubble. Your average Auckland home is now NZD768,664. And while there are the usual lines of a housing shortage, 50 year low interest rates and NZ being a lovely place to own a home, the fact of the matter is that Auckland prices are now more expensive than prices in four out of New York’s five boroughs.
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August 15, 2013 8:09pm
nasska

Tauhei

Imagine the pressure the Aussie trading banks will be putting on the Government to prevent them making any moves that might crash the Auckland housing market. With the high lending to equity mortgages the banks have advanced money on they would take a hammering if prices fell. Sales to wealthy overseas people is all that is saving them from taking a bath.

It’s the same with farming. The reason so many overseas sales of our productive farmland are rubber stamped is to prevent the land returning to values that reflect what it can produce.
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August 15, 2013 8:24pm
SGA

@F E Smith
Thanks for your answer – just got back after work and family commitments.
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August 15, 2013 10:44pm
Manolo

More peaceful than ever: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/15/us-egypt-protests-idUSBRE97C09A20130815
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August 16, 2013 6:06am
Manolo

The Kenyan under pressure: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/15/incoherent-obama-policy-on-egypt-under-fire-as-violence-spreads/
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August 16, 2013 6:53am
Lucia Maria

Manolo,

From foxnews article:

Yet the administration is sending mixed signals. While the president directly spoke out against the military-backed government on Thursday — and canceled upcoming joint military exercises — the U.S. has refused to label Morsi’s ouster a coup. That means, under U.S. law, the administration can continue to send $1.5 billion in annual aid to the Egyptian government.

The mixed signals raise concern that the U.S. is simply breeding distrust on both sides.

The argument in favor of aid is that it helps secure U.S. influence in Cairo, which is critical not only to Mideast stability but also the security of U.S. ally Israel. Yet the crackdown this week showed U.S. influence with the Egyptian military is waning, analysts warned. A wave of phone calls from top administration officials to their counterparts in Cairo, as well as an unconventional delegation of U.S. lawmakers to the country, did not quell the unrest.

They really should pull all aid. I can see why they think they need to, but they should show some intestinal fortitude and just pull it if the Egyptians don’t behave.
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August 16, 2013 8:02am

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