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July 4, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 4 July 2013

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General Debate

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nasska

Vote For Labour: They’ve got what it takes to take what you’ve got!
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July 4, 2013 8:04am
RRM

Happy 4th of July, Egypt.
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July 4, 2013 8:07am
iMP

The coup overnight in Egypt is a great payoff for America.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/07/04/coup-in-egypt-overnight/
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July 4, 2013 8:29am
joana

So Bob and Tony are getting a divorce..Well at least everyone in CHCH knows who is getting the Oscar. It comes back to qualifications..What qualifications does Marryatt have? What qualifications does Bob have to be a Mayor? He was a TV presenter. What qualifications does Gerry have to be earthquake minister.? a poor reputation in previous endeavours in CHCH , no engineering degree etc..Many people in NZ are promoted way beyond their true abilities..Bluff and bluster can take people so far but eventually inadequacies reveal themselves as has just happened. Up until a few days ago Gerry was harping about ”hurrying up the rebuild”..he appeared to not know about the real issue concerning the accreditation organization. How can this be?
One of the first new buildings to go up in CHCH fell down two days before the owner was about to hold an opening gathering for her business..The timing in this case was very fortunate. It could have come down on a big crowd of people. Sometime after this , I read in the Pressthat the AK engineer , John Scary who warned John Key in 2008 or 9 , about ”the parlous state of NZ’s structural engineering industry” but who did not receive a reply , said that buildings were going up in CHCH with the same design faults as some of the buildings which didn’t hold up in the quakes..I mentioned this to some people from outside CHCH , they looked disbelieving and said “”How could this be?” Lots of people in CHCH read the Press so all of this has been common and easily accessible knowledge. Tony and Bob are burnt toast.
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July 4, 2013 8:30am
Manolo

Happy 4th of July, United States of America (notwithstanding the incompetent Kenyan Messiah).
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July 4, 2013 8:30am
Andrei

Bolivian Presidential plane forced to land in Austria and searched?

That is a violation of all diplomatic norms!!!!

The United States of America is now a nation to be held in contempt
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July 4, 2013 8:34am
OneTrack

The Egyptians don’t seem to have really got the idea of democracy yet.
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July 4, 2013 8:35am
iMP

It’s the 3rd in the US.
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July 4, 2013 8:41am
RF

Can someone living in Christchurch explain why your dodgy council allows a rough looking run down bar to exist in the central city. When I was in ChCh last week I was shown the bar that consisted of an old bus and plastic windbreaks with light bulbs strung on a wire. Something a hippy living in Fox River, West Coast would be happy to live in but not on Bealy Ave & Victoria street near Merivale.

I understand that a close relation of a former ChCh Mayor runs the bar so I guess a blind eye is turned.

Is this the new look for Christchurch.??? No wonder the Govt is looking to take the council over.
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July 4, 2013 8:42am
CameronFoxton

So who will promise Winston a knighthood to get him onside after the election next year?
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July 4, 2013 8:43am
Kea

The Egyptians have got the idea of democracy just fine. Obama installed the radical Muslim Brotherhood and is busy supporting the exact same thing in Syria.

It is incredible how the msm over look the damage Obama has done around the world. He is the single biggest threat to world peace in decades. I hope people wake up to what he is doing, and has done, before things get totally out of hand. The ignorance of Obama supporters is both breath taking and dangerous.

He needs to be tried in an international court and hung.
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July 4, 2013 8:46am
RRM

RF – That sounds like fun, if it’s still there next time I’m in CHCH I’ll be sure to call in.. 😉
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July 4, 2013 8:51am
joana

Yes Kea I agree but great to see the brotherhood get a very public dealing to..Olga Kamel , Eyptian woman in CHCH has been speaking out against them..No doubt she would have to attend the second class mosque in CHCH..She won’t be a fav of the twelve apostles from the main mosque. So much infighting for a peaceful religion.
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July 4, 2013 8:54am
KiwiGreg

“What qualifications does Bob have to be a Mayor? ”

He was elected. That’s the ONLY qualification required for elected office – the ability to appeal to the masses.
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July 4, 2013 8:54am
UglyTruth

He needs to be tried in an international court and hung.

Your “democracy” at work, Kea.
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July 4, 2013 8:54am
RF

RRM. 8.51am. OK good luck. Don’t sit with your back to the door…sorry… there is no door except for one on the long drop.

Reminded me of Deliverance Country.
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July 4, 2013 9:08am
Kea

Ugly Truth, Saddam was hung for far less than Obama has done.

judith, yes it is good how the people have risen up against the regime Obama installed. Obama usually backs up the Muslim Brotherhood with military strikes and hundreds of millions in aid, as he is doing in Syria right now. He just gave a bunch of new jets to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, but it turns out the military are with the Egyptian people, not with Obamas people.

I wish them the best of luck, as they have had to fight off a USA backed assault on their country by radical Muslims attempting to re-establish a Muslim empire. I just hope the Syrians can manage to do the same.
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July 4, 2013 9:12am
Kea

Some might suggest that my comments about Obama are a bit extreme or over the top.

I ask those who think that to cast their minds back a few years to when Bush was in power. Far more extreme comments were delivered daily in the main stream media. Bush was mocked and attacked daily, with frequent demands he be removed from office and charged as a war criminal. It was daily news.

Now that we have a black democrat, instead of a white republican, the rules have all changed. My comments on a blog are far milder than those from the msm during the Bush years.
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July 4, 2013 9:19am
RRM

So you determine the standard for how you conduct yourself on here, based on what a rabid anti-Bush mob would do?

😐 Noted…
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July 4, 2013 9:21am
Scott Chris

So how is what is happening in Egypt Obama’s fault?
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July 4, 2013 9:24am
jcuk

“He needs to be tried in an international court and hung”

No not him those who supported him into office …

OOPS! That would be awkward .. hanging half the population of the States ?
Like the more than half who supported Morsi.
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July 4, 2013 9:25am
Griff

The World Meteorological Organization just released its Global Climate Report (pdf), which wastes no time in announcing a stark truth. The report’s first sentence: “The first decade of the 21st century was the warmest decade recorded since modern measurements began around 1850.”

Nine out of ten years between 2001 and 2010 were among the ten warmest in recorded history, according to the report, and the warmest year to date was 2010. For those worried about glacier melting, the heat spike wasn’t isolated to land. The decade was warmest for both land and ocean surface temperatures.

In case anyone still doubts the existence of global warming, take a gander at this chart:
http://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/global-temperatures.jpg?w=900&h=599
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July 4, 2013 9:27am
Pete George

@CameronFoxton

So who will promise Winston a knighthood to get him onside after the election next year?

Peters was on Firstline this morning not commiting himself to anything as usual but going ape at Key and National over dissing him in the past. It would be extremely hypocritical of him to get together with National after the next elecion. And Key would be hypocritical too.
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July 4, 2013 9:31am
Scott Chris

I ask those who think that to cast their minds back a few years to when Bush was in power. Far more extreme comments were delivered daily in the main stream media. Bush was mocked and attacked daily, with frequent demands he be removed from office and charged as a war criminal.

That is because Bush invaded Iraq, justifying his actions by claiming Iraq was manufacturing Weapons Of Mass Destruction –

Which turned out to be complete bullshit.

Obama, on the other hand, hasn’t invaded anyone. The closest he came was in providing air support to the Libyan rebels – which, no doubt, you are confusing with the Egyptian uprising.
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July 4, 2013 9:33am
Kea

RRM, no I determine my own standard. I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of Obama supporters.

I do not make statements to appeal to peer pressure. That is the sort of thing an Obama supporter would do. White liberals support him because he is “black” as an affirmation of their liberal credentials, so they “fit in” with their selected liberal peer group.

Political correctness is really nothing more than a social fashion and adopted morality for those who have not formed morality of their own. I remind you that at certain times it was “PC” to have a very different view to people like Mr Obama. The sort of sheep who now support him would have once treated him as less than human, because that was the social fashion of the day.
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July 4, 2013 9:35am
Kea

Obama, on the other hand, hasn’t invaded anyone.

I am lost for words. I could post links all over the place showing how absurd that claim is.

But instead I will leave things as they are, as an example of how brain washed and ignorant Obama supporters are.
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July 4, 2013 9:40am
Scott Chris

I am lost for words.

Ha/snort. No you’re lost for ideas. Name one country Obama has invaded.

Oh and Libya and Egypt are different countries. You do know that don’t you?
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July 4, 2013 9:47am
kowtow

What’s going on in Britain?

Two reports (no doubt produced at great expense) come up with findings that reflect the bleedin obvious.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2354713/BBCs-deep-liberal-bias-prevented-reflecting-public-views-immigration-says-corporation-news-director.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10158678/Immigrants-create-overcrowding-and-fuel-tensions-report-finds.html
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July 4, 2013 9:48am
Redbaiter

John Key’s behaviour at the GCSB inquiry yesterday while Kim Dotcom was addressing the committee was a display of appalling arrogance and condescension.

He is a smug smarmy controlling prick, and if this is the way he behaves as National Party caucus meetings I am amazed they put up with it. They must be a collection of weak yes men and women.

I guess his so called “popularity” as leader makes it difficult for National to do much even if they wanted to, but this is a mistake. That Key appeals to low information left wing voters is no real benefit to National.

After watching the videos of the inquiry, on TV3 and TV One, its fairly clear that the arrogant buffoon Key is leading National’s tragic slide to the left. For all his “popularity”, it is clear the guy is an extremely destructive force to NZ and the National Party.

The Nats need to dump him and so does the country. Just an arrogant leftist buffoon who should never ever have even joined National let alone be its leader. With his smug arrogance and his leftist/ progressive political leanings he is a natural for the Labour party.

Watch the videos and you will see what I mean.

Secondly, what’s with John Banks sitting as one of the 5 members? This guy has no integrity left at all. A disgrace that such a sleaze bag sits on a committee of such import.
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July 4, 2013 9:49am
CameronFoxton

@Pete George

Winston grandstanding only to do the opposite later is surely par for the course. The question is who will/can give him what he wants. I am sure Key and Shearer will be happy to accommodate him if it gets them three years in charge
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July 4, 2013 9:54am
Kea

Scott Chris, Obama massively escalated the war in Afghanistan, wanted to keep troops in Iraq, has launched military strikes all over Africa and the Middle East, has increased drone strikes from a small handful to hundreds, announced he was putting troops into 35 MORE African countries this year, has supported and is supporting the overthrow of stable governments by radical Muslims Jihadists and has done enormous damage to global security.

Try judging him on the content of his character not the colour of his skin. That should see you right.
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July 4, 2013 9:57am
Grendel

People may not be aware but tomorrow is the cut off for when you can make submissions on whether to add to the names of the islands in this country.

North Island
http://www.linz.govt.nz/make-a-submission-on-the-proposed-alternative-te-ika-a-maui-name-proposal

South Island
http://www.linz.govt.nz/make-a-submission-on-the-proposed-alternative-te-waipounamu-name-proposal

supposedly its about addition rather than substitution of names (/Tui).

I have my doubts about how much of an addition it really is amongst the ‘activists’ pushing for it. i have seen too many things where NZ is now only Aotearoa and NZ is nowhere in the name to believe that substitution is not the goal. also, personally i find both proposed names exceedingly clunky, tourists are going to have a hell of a time. North and South island may not be exciting but they work and the names actually make sense.
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July 4, 2013 10:03am
Weihana

Kea,

Your original claim:

“Obama installed the radical Muslim Brotherhood”

Your shifted goalposts:

“…has supported and is supporting the overthrow of stable governments by radical Muslims Jihadists…”

🙂

BTW I take it “stable government” is a reference to Syria? lol.
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July 4, 2013 10:06am
Manolo

Morsi is dog tucker: http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/07/us-eases-away-from-morsi-167594.html
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July 4, 2013 10:09am
Weihana

Grendel (804) Says:
July 4th, 2013 at 10:03 am

i have seen too many things where NZ is now only Aotearoa and NZ is nowhere in the name to believe that substitution is not the goal.

And wouldn’t it be the end of the world if that happened! 🙄
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July 4, 2013 10:16am
Kea

Weihana, yes Syria and many other places. You may well laugh, but the people in those places find it less funny.

I guess in your world Egypt is “liberated” too.

You may think you are showing us how enlightened and progressive you are by supporting a violent power crazed black warlord. But all you are really doing is parroting what the liberal media has told you. A few quick google searches will back up every claim I have made.
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July 4, 2013 10:23am
Kea

Manolo (10,320) Says:
July 4th, 2013 at 10:09 am
Morsi is dog tucker:

Obama Backs Morsi as Egyptians Demand his Resignation

At a crucial moment, Obama demanded that Mubarak step down. At an equally crucial moment, Obama has stepped in to back Morsi.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/obama-backs-morsi-as-egyptians-demand-his-resignation/
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July 4, 2013 10:26am
Kea

Obama is getting ready to crush the uprising against the radical Islamist Muslim Brotherhood he helped install.

Egypt Crisis Has Marines In Italy And Spain On High Alert

As Egypt’s President Mohammed Morsi digs in his heels despite calls for him to step down, roughly 500 U.S. Marines deployed to Italy and Spain are poised to react if their presence is needed to calm the brewing violence in the North African country, according to Stars and Stripes.

http://stratrisks.com/geostrat/13694
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July 4, 2013 10:30am
Weihana

Kea (5,649) Says:
July 4th, 2013 at 10:23 am

Weihana, yes Syria and many other places. You may well laugh, but the people in those places find it less funny.

I think you asserting that Syria is a “stable government” would give Syrians something to laugh about as well. The terminally retarded aside, most people don’t view a civil war involving the deaths of tens of thousands of citizens as “stable government”.

I guess in your world Egypt is “liberated” too.

You guess wrong. You spend far too much time knocking over straw men and very little time addressing what others are actually saying.

Fair enough if you want to criticize Obama’s foreign policy. I think the US should be far more isolationist and that’s a radical departure from normal US foreign relations (and possibly naive).

The US supported Mubarak, they supported Morsi, and they’ll support whoever comes next. Whatever the failings of US foreign policy, they are not responsible because Egypt cannot manage a government that isn’t either highly autocratic or a highly repressive Islamic state.
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July 4, 2013 10:38am
Pauleastbay

Morsi’s a gone burger. Below is a copy of a comment to the Guardians page on the coup in Eygpt. Sums up the Muslim thing quite nicely

20 million people came out on the street and this isnt a revolution? How many more do you want and then it would be a revolution?……

…..Morsi was a religious fanatic dragging Egypt back to the 7th century. He took away all the rights of the women and minorities. Women became helpers of men instead of individuals.

Not all muslims want to liver under sharia law.

Egypt is a land of belly dancing and pharaohs and pyramids. Not the land of hand chopping and public hangings like Morsi wanted.
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July 4, 2013 10:42am
Weihana

Kea (5,651) Says:
July 4th, 2013 at 10:30 am

500 marines? What planet do you live on?
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July 4, 2013 10:43am
dime

“Ugly Truth, Saddam was hung for far less than Obama has done.”

And Saddam went out like a bad ass. Sure they hung him but he said no to the hood. Went out mouthing off at everyone. Thats how id want to go to

“your mother is a arghhhhhhhhhh”
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July 4, 2013 10:43am
Weihana

“Not all muslims want to liver under sharia law. ”

That’s news to Kiwiblog! 🙂
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July 4, 2013 10:43am
Tom Jackson

John Armstrong thinks Key may be toast

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10894619

Not sure if this will come to pass, but it’s remarkable to see such a bold column from Armstrong.
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July 4, 2013 10:44am
Tom Jackson

20 million people came out on the street and this isnt a revolution? How many more do you want and then it would be a revolution.

A worldwide revolution has been underway for some time now. Turkey, Brazil, etc. Connect the dots.
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July 4, 2013 10:45am
dime

Kea – its funny how the anti-us brigade will tell you how the US has overthrown govts all over the world. how they bought saddam to power etc.

but when the messiah is doing the same thing right now, they take the piss, call you a whack job etc.

how many countries has obama sent drones into? 10? 20?

personally, im all for it. i like offing aholes with drones. i just dont like the hypocrisy of the idiots who would be going apeshit if bush did it, but when obama does it, its fine!
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July 4, 2013 10:49am
Kea

Weihana, remind me what business the USA has with Syria ? The uprising there is largely led by imported jihadists. You are unwilling to look past the msm story to find other widely available information. This is because you are desperate for the first nigger president to be a success. You are in love with the dream and do not want to accept the reality.

And come someone tell me what the Nobel Prize was for ?

German Intelligence: 95 % Of Free Syrian Army Non-Syrian Extremist Groups

http://stratrisks.com/geostrat/13310
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July 4, 2013 10:50am
Pauleastbay

roughly 500 U.S. Marines deployed to Italy and Spain are poised to react if their presence is needed to calm the brewing violence in the North African country, according to Stars and Stripes.

Kea

I’ll never knock the fighting men of the USA but 500 of them might struggle at the moment.

500 isn’t even an embassy guard.
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July 4, 2013 10:51am
Weihana

dime (6,569) Says:
July 4th, 2013 at 10:49 am

personally, im all for it. i like offing aholes with drones. i just dont like the hypocrisy of the idiots who would be going apeshit if bush did it, but when obama does it, its fine!

I’m not for it. I don’t think it’s fine that Obama does it. I voted for Bush in 2004. 🙂
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July 4, 2013 10:54am
Kea

dime @ 10:49

The double standard really does my head in. The blatant unselfconscious bias and hypocrisy of Obama supporters marks them as either idiots or liars.

A few on the left have woken up and are very critical of Obama. They are genuine people and note he is more of a war monger than Bush ever was. But of course the lumpen headed liberal wanna be types we see above are unwilling to deviate from pro Obama fluff pieces when reading the news.

All I have written can be easily sourced and often from official press releases from the White House. The difference is that anything that may make Obama look bad is not widely circulated and is never a feature article. But it is all out there for the interested.
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July 4, 2013 11:01am
Fletch

Obama invaded Libya with no say-so from Congress which you need to have to go to war in a foreign country.
When Bush invaded, he got Congressional approval – TWICE! Maybe he was wrong (though only on the point of finding WMDs – he was right on everything else).

Obama has a habit of supporting Muslim Brotherhood-led leaders.
When protests erupted in Egypt in 2011, Obama said Mubarak must step down. This is his “Jimmy Carter” moment, the same as Carter did to the Shah in Iran in 1979, paving the way for the Brotherhood-led Ayatollah Khomeini to become leader.

Mubarak wasn’t perfect, but he was moderate: an ally of the United States and who kept peace with Israel.

In contrast, when demonstrations erupted in 2009 in Iran over the disputed victory of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in the election (the so-called “green movement”), Obama did NOTHING. This was the big chance for the U.S to go in and help to overthrow a tyrant and a probable nuclear threat and Obama did nothing. He only seems to support Brotherhood leaders.
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July 4, 2013 11:02am
Kea

Pauleastbay, FFS ! I did not post the bloody troops there, I just posted a dam link 😉
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July 4, 2013 11:02am
Weihana

Kea (5,653) Says:
July 4th, 2013 at 10:50 am

Weihana, remind me what business the USA has with Syria ?

None, I think Obama is being naive, his red line arbitrary, and that history has shown that arming these people could come back to bite.

The uprising there is largely led by imported jihadists. You are unwilling to look past the msm story to find other widely available information.

I’m unwilling to entertain the silly notion that Syria is a stable government.

This is because you are desperate for the first nigger president to be a success.

Nigger president? Speaks volumes.

You are in love with the dream and do not want to accept the reality.

I probably wouldn’t vote for him today.
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July 4, 2013 11:04am
Redbaiter

“John Armstrong thinks Key may be toast”

Thanks for that link Tom.

I think Armstrong may be right. I hope so.

Its so irritating to see the dumb complacency of NZers who are blindly sucked in by Key’s “disingenuous” political act. Smiling and waving while he fucks this country in a manner not much different to the way Helen Klark fucked it.

Just a useless progressive prick, and most of the low information left wing mungbeans who support him can’t even say why.
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July 4, 2013 11:05am
Kea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEPadG0pQk&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=TLsHXrUS3OD3g

SyrianGirl debates FSA on Australian show ‘Insight’
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July 4, 2013 11:06am
Fletch

In truth, if you look at ANY former President of the United States that the American people have disliked, Obama has outdone them all in doing much worse.

Bush? Obama went to war in Libya with no congressional approval; he chooses from a list of people to kill with drones (even down to a U.S citizen and his son). He didn’t close Gitmo. His Govt spying on citizens via their Facebook, Google, Yahoo etc far overreaches Bush’s Patriot Act.

Carter? See my post above.

Nixon? Nixon stepped down because of misuse of the IRS. The Obama administration has done that and worse, using the IRS to target conservative groups, using the NSA to tap the communications of AP journalists and hack their computers.

I can’t name one good thing Obama has done.
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July 4, 2013 11:12am
Kea

Nigger president? Speaks volumes.

Weihana, does it really ? What does it speak volumes about ? Before you go making a fool of yourself I will point out that I also have a European mother and a sand NIGGER father from Syria. So your nigger buddy in the white house is just as white/black as me.

For some strange reason I did not get a Nobel Prize, even though I was in a Muslim country at the time Obama got his, but I was making friends while he murdered them in their thousands. I guess I don’t look nigger enough. What do you think ?

It is not me who is impressed by his niggerness, it is his supporters. I judge him by his actions not his skin colour. His supporters and apologists hold him to very different standards than white presidents.

[DPF: 20 demerits]
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July 4, 2013 11:17am
Longknives

“I can’t name one good thing Obama has done.”

He won a Nobel Peace Prize.
For something….
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July 4, 2013 11:18am
Weihana

Kea (5,657) Says:
July 4th, 2013 at 11:17 am

Weihana, does it really ? What does it speak volumes about ?

That you either like to parade around in white sheets or you are going to release a rap album. 🙂

I will point out that I also have a European mother and a sand NIGGER father from Syria.

Rap album it is.
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July 4, 2013 11:22am
Longknives

“And Saddam went out like a bad ass. Sure they hung him but he said no to the hood. Went out mouthing off at everyone. Thats how id want to go to”

Like John Gacy- “Do you have any final words Mr Gacy?” — “Kiss my ass!”
And Gary Gilmore to his firing squad- “Let’s Do it!”
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July 4, 2013 11:23am
Kea

Weihana, Here is a song from my new album, just for you 😉

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAvlimEYEpQ
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July 4, 2013 11:28am
RightNow

“I can’t name one good thing Obama has done”

He slowed the rise of the oceans.
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July 4, 2013 11:28am
Scott Chris

John Armstrong thinks Key may be toast

Nah, Dotcom’s bluffing. Why wait till his extradition hearing to pull out his ace? If he has evidence that John Key ‘knew of him’ before the raids then it would be in his best interests to produce it now to cause as much political damage as possible before his hearing and to undermine the passing of the new surveillance legislation.
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July 4, 2013 11:37am
dave_c_

Just read paper article re stoush between Key and Dotcom. Key describing the procedings at the submission forum as a ‘circus’. Indeed it is a circus – Key (as ringmaster) hosting the submission forum, then inexplicably indicating that the government intend to push the bill through any way ! Laughable indeed. Democracy zero, Govt one –
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July 4, 2013 11:42am
Fletch

ps, as far as the Iraq war and Weapons of Mass Destruction, it is well worth reading the chapters on the Iraq war in the book, ‘The World Turned Upside Down’, by Melanie Philips (that chapter is available to read for FREE on Google Books).

She points out that Saddam’s Vice Marshall Georges Sada says in his book, Saddams Secrets that not only did he see WMDs, but he knows how they were smuggled out – in domestic airliners converted for the purpose disguised as being supplies to help Syria after a dam collapse there.

Georges Sada reported that as Saddam’s air vice-marshal he “not only saw these weapons but witnessed them being used on orders from the air force commanders and the president of the country.” In his book Saddam’s Secrets, he explained how these weapons had been concealed:

I know the names of some of those who were involved in smuggling WMDs out of Iraq in 2002 and 2003. I know the names of officers of the front company, SES, who received the weapons from Saddam. I know how and when they were transported and shipped out of Iraq. And I know how many aircraft were actually used and what types of planes they were, as well as a number of other facts of this nature….

Saddam had ordered our weapons teams to hide the WMDs in places no military commander or United Nations weapons inspector would expect to find them. So they hid them in schools, private homes, banks, business offices and even on trucks that were kept constantly moving back and forth from one end of the country to the other. And then fate stepped in….

On June 4, 2002, a three-mile-long dam collapsed in Syria, causing a disaster over 40 square miles. When Syria asked for help from Jordan and Iraq, Saddam seized his opportunity. For him, the disaster in Syria was a gift, and there, posing as shipments of supplies and equipment sent from Iraq to aid the relief effort, were Iraq’s WMDs. Weapons and equipment were transferred both by land and by air. The only aircraft available at the time were one Boeing 747 jumbo jet and a group of Boeing 727s. But this turned out to be the perfect solution to Saddam’s problem. Who would suspect commercial airliners of carrying deadly toxins and contraband technology out of the country? So the planes were quickly reconfigured….

Eventually there were fifty-six sorties. He [Saddam] arranged for most of these shipments to be taken to Syria and handed over to ordnance specialists there who promised to hold everything for as long as necessary. Subsequently I spoke at length to a former civilian airline captain who had detailed information about those flights. At the time he held an important position at Iraqi Airways, which is the commercial airline in Baghdad. . . .

In addition to the shipments that went by air, there were also truckloads of weapons, chemicals and other supplies that were taken into Syria at that time. These weren’t government vehicles or military equipment but large cargo trucks and eighteen-wheelers made to look like ordinary commercial operators…. To keep all these transfers under wraps, the operators worked through a false company called SES. This company played a key role in transporting equipment back and forth between Syria and Iraq, as well as in smuggling many former government officials out of Iraq prior to and immediately after the US invasion in March 2003.

I spoke to Sada in 2006. An Assyrian Christian, he had not belonged to the Ba’ath Party. Somehow he had survived Saddam’s regime and was now president of the National Presbyterian Church in Baghdad and head of the Iraqi branch of the Centre for Peace and Reconciliation based at Coventry Cathedral. He told me that he had lived and worked with the ever-present daily reality of Saddam’s tactics of hiding his WMD from the weapons inspectors.

Whole environments were transformed and rebuilt in the largely successful strategy of concealment. The idea that Saddam suddenly stopped hiding the stuff and secretly destroyed it while playing his cat-and-mouse games with the UN was, he said, utterly ludicrous. Hiding WMD was the unchanging pattern of Saddam’s regime. Sada said he had listened to the tapes that had surfaced after the invasion recording Saddam’s discussions with his top brass about the problems being caused by the UN weapons inspectors. He said the translations that had so far been made of those tapes were inadequate because the translators did not speak Tikriti Arabic, the dialect in which these discussions were conducted. Sada did speak Tikriti.

He had translated a crucial three and a half minutes of those tapes, he said, in which Saddam and his generals were discussing how to outwit the UN inspectors; in which they said that the problem of the chemical weapons was solved but the biological weapons were still causing a problem; that this problem would probably be solved with the help of the Russians and the French; and in which Saddam said: “In the future the terrorism will be with WMD.” 25 With a few exceptions, Sada’s claims were totally ignored by the media. His firsthand evidence could not be given any importance because it disturbed the view that had become an unchallengeable dogma: that we were “taken to war on a lie.” Of course, Sada may have been mistaken; but shouldn’t his claims have been taken seriously and investigated?

Whether you believe him or not, it is a possibility.
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July 4, 2013 11:47am
graham

Sorry to interrupt with local politics …

So there’s a story in the Herald today (I can’t find it online for some reason, but it’s on page A3 of the print edition) about how a sales rep for “Travel New Zealand” sent an email to Queenstown clothing retailer Bonz soliciting for advertising. The email began “Kia ora …”. The owner of Bonz, Bonnie Rodwell, replied with “Sorry but why do we need to be addressed with Kia ora? Neither myself or my office manager speak Maori. Maybe more people would advertise with you if we were treated with a little more respect. While we have no issue with anything ‘Maori’ at all, we find it plain silly.”

The “Travel New Zealand” publisher says he was “gobsmacked” by the response.

Now, the response by Bonnie Rodwell was probably a bit unnecessary, and for someone based in Queenstown, reliant quite heavily on the tourist industry, to object to a Maori greeting is probably not a good look. But here’s the part that I find a bit bemusing:

The “Travel New Zealand” publisher, Gary Cody, has complained to the Human Rights Commissioner.

All I can say is, if the HRC upholds a complaint about someone saying that they don’t want to be greeted with “Kia ora” then we’re really going downhill fast.
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July 4, 2013 11:58am
Kea

Fletch, Saddam did use chemical weapons… when he attacked Iran with US backing. He killed thousands of Iranians and gassed some of his own people, as a US ally.

Of course the fact is that chemical weapons are not massively destructive, but it scares the ignorant masses.
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July 4, 2013 11:58am
Tom Jackson

ps, as far as the Iraq war and Weapons of Mass Destruction, it is well worth reading the chapters on the Iraq war in the book, ‘The World Turned Upside Down’, by Melanie Philip

Mad Mel?

No thanks.

There are lots of sober minded conservative authors out there. Why do you guys inevitably pick the swivel eyed loons?
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July 4, 2013 12:01pm
Redbaiter

“Why do you guys inevitably pick the swivel eyed loons?”

Because as soon as we see the left calling some person a “swivel eyed loon”, we know that person is probably speaking truth.
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July 4, 2013 12:04pm
Tom Jackson

Because as soon as we see the left calling some person a “swivel eyed loon”, we know that person is probably speaking truth.

Really? That’s hilarious.

Did you know that Mussolini was a swivel eyed loon?
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July 4, 2013 12:11pm
Fletch

Mad Mel?

No thanks.

Well, it isn’t her opinion she is putting forth mostly. She backs it up with what others have said. A lot of the WMD thing was solely anti-Bush sentiment from the media and others who blocked their ears to any other evidence and put forth the narrative they wanted. And it largely worked.
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July 4, 2013 12:12pm
Redbaiter

“Did you know that Mussolini was a swivel eyed loon?”

I know that in his path to power he was generously supported by the left, so its possible.

(read Jonah Golberg’s Liberal Fascism)
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July 4, 2013 12:16pm
Longknives

““Travel New Zealand” sent an email to Queenstown clothing retailer Bonz soliciting for advertising. The email began “Kia ora …”. The owner of Bonz, Bonnie Rodwell, replied with “Sorry but why do we need to be addressed with Kia ora? Neither myself or my office manager speak Maori.”
“The “Travel New Zealand” publisher, Gary Cody, has complained to the Human Rights Commissioner.”

Can anybody find a link to this article? This defies belief!
Bonnie Rodwell you are a bloody hero for standing up to the scourge of Political Correctness…
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July 4, 2013 12:20pm
Pete George

@graham at 11.58 am

Yes, a silly and inappropriate response by “Travel New Zealand” going to the Human Rights Commission.

But also a very silly response to the email by owner of Bonz, Bonnie Rodwell. I wonder what other languages she and her staff don’t speak. I wonder if she has an “English language only!” sign on the door of her shop.
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July 4, 2013 12:22pm
Redbaiter

Oh of course, they’re both “silly”.

God forbid that a snivelling coward like you might ever take a stand.
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July 4, 2013 12:24pm
Pete George

Funny Red, I’ve been taking a stand against your abuse and hypocrisy for how many years?

“Snivelling coward”? You couldn’t snivel any more if you tried, from the safety of your bunker.

It’s not something for me to take a stand on. I’m not going to boycott the shop, and I’m not going to put my own complaint in to the Human Rights Commission. That would be even sillier.
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July 4, 2013 12:28pm
graham

Sorry Longknives, I tried to find an online link but couldn’t. You could do what I have done to get the details, and subscribe to a free trial of the Herald online print edition. Then just navigate to page A3, it’s at the top left of that page.

Pete George, I agree that Bonnie’s response to the email was a bit silly. But maybe it was a long day, she was worn out, she receives this email begging for her to spend more money on advertising, and snaps. Who knows? Me, I’d just hit “delete”. Also remember, this was non-customer facing interaction. I suspect that people handing over money, as opposed to those asking her to spend money with them, will be treated differently.
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July 4, 2013 12:29pm
Redbaiter

“Pete George, I agree that Bonnie’s response to the email was a bit silly.”

UTTER FUCKING BULLSHIT. WE BADLY NEED PEOPLE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT BACK AGAINST THIS PC BULLSHIT.

Gawd this country is so full of fucking lame apologetic wimps who deserve a damn good arse fucking from Maori. It appears as if its the only way they’ll ever wake up.
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July 4, 2013 12:33pm
dime

“The “Travel New Zealand” publisher, Gary Cody, has complained to the Human Rights Commissioner.”

What a loser.
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July 4, 2013 12:35pm
graham

(Incidentally, if you register for a free trial on the Herald print edition, it asks you for your contact details. In honour of the conversations earlier, I put down the Iranian Embassy. :))

Red, don’t hold back, tell us what you REALLY think.
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July 4, 2013 12:35pm
Sidey

Travel NZ has every right to use whatever language they want to in their own correspondence, in the knowledge that it might not be well received by all of the recipients. That’s a business risk they take.

Bonz has every right to point out to Travel NZ that they didn’t like it. That’s a business risk they take.

Since when does pointing out you don’t like something become an HRC matter? Just don’t do business with them. Problem solved.
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July 4, 2013 12:36pm
Pete George

If someone replied like that to me I’d probably respond to them telling them what I thougt and leave it at that.

I don’t care how anyone greets me in correspondence, it’s their choice. I don’t have a problem with people using Kia Ora but don’t use it myself, it’s not how I talk. I most often use “Hi”. I’ve never had any problem with people understanding that.
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July 4, 2013 12:36pm
RRM

a damn good arse fucking from Maori.

That’s my day made.
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July 4, 2013 12:43pm
Pete George

UTTER FUCKING BULLSHIT. WE BADLY NEED PEOPLE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT BACK AGAINST THIS PC BULLSHIT.

Gawd this country is so full of fucking lame apologetic wimps who deserve a damn good arse fucking from Maori. It appears as if its the only way they’ll ever wake up.

So what have you done to stand up and fight back against this?

Snivelling here doesn’t count.
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July 4, 2013 12:44pm
Manolo

But also a very silly response to the email by owner of Bonz, Bonnie Rodwell. I wonder what other languages she and her staff don’t speak. I wonder if she has an “English language only!” sign on the door of her shop.

Keep bending over. Your forehead will soon touch the floor.
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July 4, 2013 12:45pm
dime

Pete you are just so dam sensible!
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July 4, 2013 12:46pm
RRM

I might start all my letters, phone calls, and technical reports with “Kia ora” from now on.

That way, if anyone ever disagrees or causes me difficulty I can just complain to the HRC about them. It’s obvious that they are RACIST. Stop being so RACIST.
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July 4, 2013 12:48pm
Pete George

Kia Ora RRM – what about blog comments?
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July 4, 2013 12:59pm
nasska

At least we know what will happen if the wankers at the HRC get involved.

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9q2kmi2m9nkv1xs/HRC.jpg
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July 4, 2013 1:00pm
Newbie

(transcript of the kia ora article)

A publisher was ‘‘gobsmacked’’ to receive a complaint about using a Maori greeting in an email to a prospective client. sales representative for Travel
New Zealand sent an email to Queenstown clothing retailer Bonz requesting advertising support. The email began: ‘‘Kia ora . . .’’
Bonz owner Bonnie Rodwell replied: ‘‘Sorry but why do we need to be addressed with Kia ora?
‘‘Neither myself or [ my office manager] speak Maori. Maybe more people would advertise with you if we were addressed with a little more respect. Whilst we have no issue with anything ‘Maori’ at all, we find it plain silly.’’
Travel New Zealand publisher Gary Cody says he was ‘‘absolutely gobsmacked’’ by Rodwell’s response last Thursday on the eve of this week’s Maori Language Week.
‘‘I couldn’t believe that someone who relied on tourism is offended by that greeting,’’ Mr Cody said. He had complained to the Human Rights Commissioner, he said.
His staff use the greeting in all company emails and had never been criticised for inappropriateness.
Ms Rodwell said Mr Cody’s sales representative was Irish: ‘‘I love Maoris, I spent a lot of time with them when I was young, but I just find it offensive to be addressed kia ora by an Irishwoman that doesn’t understand, really, the Maori language.’’
Ms Rodwell, whose company stands for ‘‘ Best of New Zealand’’, says Government departments are also ‘‘Kia ora-ing on the phone’’. ‘‘Why don’t they understand real Maoridom and stop using it as a tourism slang?
‘‘I don’t feel like it’s a word that needs to be used and abused. I’ll always greet a Maori with kia ora and I’ll rub noses with a Maori.’’
Maori Language Commission chief executive Glenis Philip-Barbara said the commission was aware it still had work to do in terms of people’s attitudes towards te reo.
‘‘We’re interested in doing anything that promotes and normalises te reo Maori huri noa te motu [throughout the country] and we need to realise we haven’t yet reached every corner of Aotearoa.’’
A Human Rights Commission spokeswoman said there was the possibility for mediation when complaints were laid but because of confidentiality she couldn’t say anything more except that a complaint had been received.
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July 4, 2013 1:01pm
RightNow

Gary Cody, He tino pai nanekoti au! E kai nga tutae me e mate!

(Sourced from http://nawcom.com/swearing/maori.htm – because it’s good to experience cultural diversity!)
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July 4, 2013 1:05pm
dime

what is Maoridom? it sounds noble!
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July 4, 2013 1:12pm
liarbors a joke

If a King runs a Kingdom…who runs a Country ? ( specifically NZ )
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July 4, 2013 1:17pm
Kea

dime, Maoridom is a term used to describe a lose and fractious group of diverse individuals who have a common interest in benefits, booze, drugs, violence and crime. They have no self determination of their own, so rely upon colonists for all their basic needs.

They should not be confused with ordinary Maori, who are just regular people with a few differences in culture.
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July 4, 2013 1:17pm
dime

Kea – cheers!

Dime – always learning 🙂
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July 4, 2013 1:23pm
Fletch

The pro-life debate distilled down to its essence.

Pro-lifers sing “Amazing Grace”, while pro-choicers chant “hail satan” as Texas tries to put through a bill to limit abortion to below 20 weeks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41XENUuwKP8

These people are fighting for the right to kill their babies at any age.
Makes you want to pity them.
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July 4, 2013 2:01pm
kowtow

Yep that Maori language commission realises it “has more work to do” to force a dead language that not even maoris use onto the rest of long suffering Aofuckingteafuckingroa.

And yes that’s even more offensive because it’s Maori Fucking Language Week ,and we’re all paying for the fucking indignity of being preached to by tax sucking non jobs.

Human Rights Commission,Maori Language Commission……..now there are some savings to the taxpayer scrapping them…….
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July 4, 2013 3:28pm
thedavincimode

who deserve a damn good arse fucking

LOL – there he goes again! From nowhere! Mr Cockinbum. 🙂
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July 4, 2013 4:10pm
RightNow

Just Harawiras being Harawiras…

Two nephews of MP Hone Harawira have been found guilty of fracturing a man’s cheek and eyesocket while drunkenly robbing him of his iPod.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8879069/Harawira-nephews-guilty-of-iPod-bashing
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July 4, 2013 4:34pm
liarbors a joke

Scum..

http://1law4all.co.nz/2013/07/04/harawira-nephews-guilty-of-ipod-bashing/
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July 4, 2013 5:45pm

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