General Debate 25 July 2013

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Griff

George Alexander Louis
ginga future king
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July 25, 2013 8:02am
smttc

John Key is making a tactical mistake by not snipping in the bud and rejecting outright the possibility of doing a deal with NZ First after next year’s election.

National are in the unique position of possibly being able to govern alone after the 2014 election.

Opening up the possibility of working with Winston will only invite non National voters who cannot bring themselves to vote for Labour and Greens to vote for NZ First instead of National.
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July 25, 2013 8:08am
Carlos

What the hell? Is this true?

“The ultra-Orthodox practice of metzitzah b’peh requires a practitioner to orally suck the baby’s penis to ‘cleanse’ the open wound following its circumcision, making them susceptible to the virus”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304793/Two-babies-stricken-HERPES-ritual-oral-blood-sucking-circumcision-New-York-City.html
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July 25, 2013 8:16am
Pete George

Anyone going to the GCSB public meeting in Auckland tonight? Some interesting speakers:

Chaired by Sir Edmund Thomas
Dame Anne Salmond
Dr Rodney Harrison QC
Kim Dotcom
Thomas Beagle

The event has revolving Mana/socialist spokespeople, Martyn Bradbury, Mike Treen and John Minto, but hopefully the importance of the GCSB issue will take precedence over their political agenda.
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July 25, 2013 8:17am
Pete George

National are in the unique position of possibly being able to govern alone after the 2014 election.

I doubt they will get a look in there, especially not going for a third term. The country seems to resist one party rule under MMP, that was evident last election with the late dip in support for National.
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July 25, 2013 8:19am
Griff

protest vote PG
Most risked voting peters first only because they thought national would win anyway.
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July 25, 2013 8:25am
The Scorned

Carlos….old news. And its Gods will so thats that….
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July 25, 2013 8:25am
smttc

Oh really Pete. History may be on your side. But the polls are not and that’s because Labour are just so useless, sensible people cannot bring themselves to vote for the losers.

And let’s face it, most of the MPs in NZ First are bat shit crazy. Williams, Prosser, Loony Nasty Taylor etc and Winston of course. Who the fuck would want to work with these morons? NZ First has never contributed anything of real substance to policy making in NZ.
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July 25, 2013 8:26am
hj

I see that country bumpkins are complaining about the lack of money for roads since so much is going to Auckland property developers. What’s the name of the company that manages the Property Council PR…Clordell Mentha or some outfit?
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July 25, 2013 8:27am
tvb

Fran has written an interesting article about Bill English. He and John Key have always taken a medium term focus regarding the fiscal consolidation. This contrasts with Ruth Richardson who took a hurried slash and burn approach. It has meant that public debt has been higher but then plunging the economy into a deeper recession may have pushed debt even higher short of widespead poverty with welfare cuts. Most people think English and Key have got the balance about right. But I hope they do not fall into the trap of smug complacency but it appears they will probably avoid that.
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July 25, 2013 8:29am
hj

Westpac economists say expectation of future profits – not a supply shortage – is main reason for soaring Auckland house prices
http://www.interest.co.nz/property/65294/westpac-economists-say-expectation-future-profits-not-supply-shortage-main-reason-soa

Ah yes, the country is on the block, to the highest bidders from the worlds largest populations and smokiest places. This is seen as a “great opportunity” by the likes of John Banks, while Mathew Hooten laments (with a tear in his eye) “if that person can’t sell to a foreigner he can’t get the best price”. The government has bought the land supply meme hook, line and sinker…. but one has to serve one’s master: the fantastically wealthy Property Council….. all the influence money can buy.
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July 25, 2013 8:39am
wreck1080

Sick of politics? Check out how disney do their animatronics, which may even reach a desktop near you one day…..

http://gizmodo.com/animatronics-could-go-mainstream-thanks-to-disneys-lat-895961598
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July 25, 2013 8:54am
Pete George

@smttc

And let’s face it, most of the MPs in NZ First are bat shit crazy. Williams, Prosser, Loony Nasty Taylor etc and Winston of course. Who the fuck would want to work with these morons? NZ First has never contributed anything of real substance to policy making in NZ.

But that doesn’t stop people voting for them.

Winston picks up a fair bit of anti-Government protest vote, those voters don’t care if they are dipsticks.

Some will have voted NZF knowing National were going to ‘win’, but some voted specifically to stop National from ruling alone.
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July 25, 2013 8:54am
Andrei

Winston picks up a fair bit of anti-Government protest vote, those voters don’t care if they are dipsticks.

Parliament is full of dipsticks Pete George – one of them is Peter Dunne
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July 25, 2013 8:58am
Andrei

An English dipstick: David Cameron’s great ambition
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July 25, 2013 9:01am
Keeping Stock

Bill English is getting plenty of plaudits from the nation’s movers and shakers for his steady-as-she-goes financial management. He has proved his critics wrong as the economy rebounds:

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/07/the-mood-of-boardroom.html
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July 25, 2013 9:02am
flipper

Oh dear,

The idiot Nazi town planners in Kapiti, having previously stuffed up with a false (AGW/CC) sea level determination affecting hundreds of Paraparaumu residents, are it again. This time in the Reikorangi valley, just a couple of miles north of Paraparaumu, and east of Waikanae .

Stuff reports this morning that the new KDC draft plan provides, yet again, xyz good reason to abolish local government planning roles ( thereby also eliminating and Bill English’s (in)famous “20 planners”, and their like), from holding land owners and the country to ransom.

Read:

*** ” … With 140 hectares of his [Carter’s] property now deemed a protected area, he would also not be able to fence it. “I will need resource consent for every little change and will not be able to afford it. There needs to be a good reason for taking away people’s property rights.

“The council should only protect areas of land that need protecting [as specified under the Resource Management Act].

“I am an environmentalist. I want to protect my land and areas harbouring endangered species.”

He maintained that the council had designated land as ecological zones or outstanding landscapes without visiting them.

The council’s sustainable development manager, Jim Ebenhoh, said the plan was some way from going ahead. Planners would produce a report and submitters could present their cases to a district plan hearing for the rural environment.

Six generations of Anna Carter’s husband’s family have farmed in the Reikorangi Valley since the 1890s. She said the proposed rules meant any activity on their land would now require resource consent.

“Some property owners have had trees for 30 years and will not be able to harvest them without jumping through a huge number of hoops to get consent.”

The council should have consulted affected landowners, she said. “We love our land, want to protect the native bush as well as waterways from sediment runoff and wetlands, but the new resource consent requirements mean we will not be able to afford good management practices.”
***

So much for individual property rights.

Owners are now required by the KDC (and other silly Loc Gov orgs) to “make submissions” on rights held by them for just about 120 years. Make a submission on one’s own property? How low have we stooped? Get stuffed. Time to reverse the trend.

Oh, in passing, I have no personal interest. 🙂
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July 25, 2013 9:02am
kowtow

If anyone ever doubted Cameron’s progressive credentials read this.
One of the commenters notes that Same Sex Marriage was not in their manifesto and Cameron was asked 3 days before the GE if he had any plans for it and said No.
How can you tell when a politician is lying? His lips are moving.
Electorates really do need to have more oversight and control over the thieving,lying, deceptive gangs that infest our parliaments these days.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10200636/I-want-to-export-gay-marriage-around-the-world-says-David-Cameron.html
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July 25, 2013 9:07am
Pete George

From Mood of the Boardroom report:

95% say David Shearer is not a credible leader
83% don’t believe the NZ Power deal will aid the economy
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July 25, 2013 9:10am
Redbaiter

“Owners are now required by the KDC (and other silly Loc Gov orgs) to “make submissions” ”

Yes, the lowly serfs, (ratepayers) must be kept in their place.

The democratic process has become a farce where arrogant elitist bureaucrats set the rules and elected officials lack the spine to pull them into line.

Its the same in Central government. National politicians can’t wait to get on their knees and kiss bureaucrat arse.
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July 25, 2013 9:10am
flipper

Keeping S…

Yep, and as I said the other day, the 2014 General Election will be fought on “the economy, the economy, the economy, stupid”.

The CEO poll does nothing to help labour’s ability to raise funds from business.

Oh well, its ” back to the sucker trade union members”…….
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July 25, 2013 9:17am
Pete George

There’s a bill quietly going through Parliament that is claimed to be “the biggest transformation to the public service in a generation”.

The Bill states the changes ”are designed to strengthen collaboration throughout the state sector system, to improve financial flexibility, and to provide more meaningful performance information for scrutiny by Parliament.”

The legislation is comprehensive, amending the State Sector, Public Finance and Crown Entities Acts – the three principal statutes governing the management of the state sector and public finances in New Zealand.

It has a large majority support with both National and Labour plus Act, Dunne and Horan backing it.

Greens support some of it but have a SOP to address something they don’t like, while Winston harrumphed about it.
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July 25, 2013 9:19am
dime

For some reason Dime listened to ZB this morning, even though Susan Wood drives me nuts.

She had some eco-warrior shit head on after 8am.

From what I can tell, this guys life is flying around the world, swimming with penguins etc etc and then making a ton of cash doing global warming lectures and making a fortune.. while telling us to “think twice before buying that bottle of water”.

Then Susan mentions leighton and how he doesnt believe. shit heads answer?

“we just need to ignore people like that and move on. the science is proven”. what a cunt.

Not only is a highly religious global warming lover, he makes his living off it! and people take him seriously.

AND she doesnt pull him up on it.

i know there is no point in arguin with true believers but they shouldnt be given air time on main stream radio and they shouldnt get away with lobbying for higher taxation.

We would go apeshit if they kept interviewing religious leaders who tried to convert us to their religion AND campaigned for taxation to feed the churches.

fuck em all!
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July 25, 2013 9:20am
kowtow

Flipper
Yet another example of an egregious government attack on private property rights.
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July 25, 2013 9:22am
Pete George

Interesting post on Winston Peters, King Maker.

So it will be up to Winston who leads the country next time.

He appears to be very reluctant to go into coalition with the Greens and such an arrangement would be very unstable. The parties’ world views are too different and the respective styles are too jarring. I would expect that NZ First would be far too obstructive to any policy designed to address climate change for instance. It is likely that such an arrangement would fail.

National on the other hand will be prepared to do whatever is required to hold onto power.

So there is a large risk that Peters may become a Deputy Prime Minister after the next election in a coalition with National. Be afraid, be very afraid …

I’m not sure how large that risk is but it is a scary prospect.

(I’ve had run ins with mickysavage in the past, but now he’s become an author at the Standard he’s one of the better conributors there, good arguments without overstating).
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July 25, 2013 9:28am
wikiriwhis business

NZ Prime Minister facing prosecution for spying

Accountability coming to John Key as well as other foreign leaders have experienced. And let’s not forget P Dunne

http://dnews.co.nz/node/20

New Zealand’s Prime Minister John Key is facing prosecution in court after it was revealed his department spied on more than 80 New Zealanders illegally.

The head of the New Zealand Private Prosecution Service Graham McCready has filed charges against Mr Key and GCSB head Ian Fletcher, under the Crimes Act.
– See more at: http://dnews.co.nz/node/20#sthash.IUxYEyOy.7KRZES9W.dpuf
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July 25, 2013 9:31am
dime

“National on the other hand will be prepared to do whatever is required to hold onto power.” lol

The left arent like that at all.

On the bright side, if labour get in and go with winnie, they will treat the greens like bitches as per.
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July 25, 2013 9:31am
wikiriwhis business

“So it will be up to Winston who leads the country next time.”

Since it seems we now have a criminal leading the country Winston should be PM
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July 25, 2013 9:33am
Griff

The science of climate change is proven!
http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
97% consensus in published science
all major scientific organizations
the world bank
the UN
the pentagon
all national climate organizations
all major governments
And yet climate change denial gets posted on here daily.
😆
I will bet that in ten years the same idiots who post denial rubbish now will be complaining because nothing was done about it.
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July 25, 2013 9:33am
Colville

As a lowly property developer I have dealt with around 8 different councils in the lower north Island, KDC would have rated top of my “never again “ list that was until I dealt with Hastings District Council…
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July 25, 2013 9:33am
wikiriwhis business

“making a ton of cash…..”

That’s what you do Dime
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July 25, 2013 9:34am
dime

wiki – i dont scam people to make money though.

this prick was really sensitive too. he thought wood was going to bring up his carbon footprint lol he knows hes a prick.

“The science of climate change is proven!” – yes griff. and 97% of church leaders and those making money off religion have said god is real too.

youre part of a religion you dopey hippy.
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July 25, 2013 9:39am
Redbaiter

“I will bet that in ten years the same idiots who post denial rubbish now will be complaining because nothing was done about it.”

I’ll have ten grand of that action right now.
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July 25, 2013 9:44am
Griff

Yes dime its a religion called the scientific method you now the one that brought us out of the dark ages
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July 25, 2013 9:45am
Pete George

“A very strong sentiment in the corridors of power that it’s a matter of when” Shearer will go – Felix Marwick.

…the challenges facing David Shearer are deep and have been there ever since he got the leadership.

Part of the problem he’s faced is that as a relative newcomer to politics he’s not really had the time to form his own power base. On election night 2011, as the manoeuvring began for the leader’s job, I recall him saying that he didn’t think he’d have a lot of friends in the new caucus. His position appears to be the result of compromise and deals and doesn’t have the solid foundation that some of his predecessors and peers have enjoyed.

Compounding the problem was the way he started. I’d argue he failed to stamp his own style on the party right from when he got the job. When he made his first speech to Parliament after getting the job it sounded, to my ears, like a carbon copy of one Phil Goff would have given. There was no visible immediate break between the leadership that got Labour 27 percent in 2011 and the leader that was supposed to turn that around.

There’s now a very strong sentiment in the corridors of power that it’s a matter of when, and not if, he may go. On a polling comparison Labour’s numbers are similar, if not worse than they were at the same point in Phil Goff’s leadership reign. Then the whispers were loud for his removal, yet none of his colleagues were prepared to take the chance.

So can David Shearer turn it around? And if he doesn’t, will anyone in his caucus be prepared to take up the poisoned chalice that Labour’s leadership appears to have become.

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/opinion/political-report-july24-2013

Felix is one of the more thoughtful, measured political journalists.

Shearer may have even less friends in the Labour caucus now, and few in the party membership.

But are there any in Labour with friends? And with an ability to lead and repair a party with wobbly wheels pointing in all directions?
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July 25, 2013 9:47am
HB

@Colville
tell us more about HDC?
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July 25, 2013 9:51am
dime

“The science of climate change is proven!”

so does that mean we can stop funding most of em?

“thanks guys, its proven, see ya”

yeah right.
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July 25, 2013 9:56am
Griff

redbaiter
also known as Don Quixote
tilting at ~~windmills~~Progs 😆
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July 25, 2013 9:56am
iMP

Is the media dying in Nu Zild? It’s certainly being nuked from cyber-space, but is that bad?

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/07/22/churnalists-cyber-nuking-real-news-peeps-in-the-streets/
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July 25, 2013 9:58am
hannity

What an embarrassment,
The supposed ‘omnipotent’ John Keys’ entire political future hinges on the whim of Winston Peters.
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July 25, 2013 9:59am
kowtow

The Dark Ages weren’t Dark,and they were warm!

Grieff keeps peddling myths and lies.

http://listverse.com/2008/06/09/top-10-reasons-the-dark-ages-were-not-dark/
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July 25, 2013 10:03am
RightNow

The scientific method huh griff?

“Testing: This is an investigation of whether the real world behaves as predicted by the hypothesis.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

How’s that part working out for climastrology?

Don’t tell me, the heat is hiding in the deep ocean. Only just in one hemisphere, and it got there by teleportation because the upper layers are cooling.
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July 25, 2013 10:12am
Griff

Did you read your link kowtow?
it points out that the Muslim world was advancing knowledge whereas the western world was help back by guess?
Christendom.
http://www.seesharppress.com/20reasons.html

. Christianity is anti-intellectual, anti-scientific. For over a millennium Christianity arrested the development of science and scientific thinking. In Christendom, from the time of Augustine until the Renaissance, systematic investigation of the natural world was restricted to theological investigation—the interpretation of biblical passages, the gleaning of clues from the lives of the saints, etc.; there was no direct observation and interpretation of natural processes, because that was considered a useless pursuit, as all knowledge resided in scripture. The results of this are well known: scientific knowledge advanced hardly an inch in the over 1000 years from the rise of orthodox Christianity in the fourth century to the 1500s, and the populace was mired in the deepest squalor and ignorance, living in dire fear of the supernatural—believing in paranormal explanations for the most ordinary natural events
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July 25, 2013 10:21am
wikiriwhis business

National Socialist Party is marching

Grandparents who have spent years raising troubled grandchildren are being told to get back to work, sometimes just months from retirement. A support group says this month’s welfare shakeup has pushed many carers into looking for work as they fear having their benefit payments cut. Read the story here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8959919/Grandparent-carers-forced-back-to-work
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July 25, 2013 10:26am
wikiriwhis business

“thanks guys, its proven, see ya”

yeah right.”

The more this National Socialist govt rises the less we hear from Tui
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July 25, 2013 10:28am
Redbaiter

“the western world was help back by guess? Christendom.”

Oh fuck, here we go again.

Sec progs and their insane obsessions.
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July 25, 2013 10:39am
wikiriwhis business

American inventor Royal Rife (his real name), in 1934, cured 14 “terminal” cancer patients and hundreds of animal cancers by aiming his “beam ray” at what he called the “cancer virus.” So why isn’t the Rife Ray in use today? Barry Lynes, in his 1987 book The Cancer Cure That Worked, details how Rife’s invention was discredited by Morris Fishbein, the director of the American Medical Association (AMA), after his offers to buy a share of the technology were rebuffed, although this has never been proven and the AMA has denied it. A 1953 U.S. Senate special investigation concluded that Fishbein and the AMA had conspired with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to suppress various alternative cancer treatments that conflicted with the AMA’s pre-determined view that “radium, x-ray therapy and surgery are the only recognized treatments for cancer.”

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=551368651565992&set=a.157996427569885.25021.157390410963820&type=1&theater
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July 25, 2013 10:39am
wikiriwhis business

““the western world was help back by guess? Christendom.””

The truth is Catholicism
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July 25, 2013 10:40am
Griff

RightNow
Ok all major scientific organizations governments and 97% of climate scientists are totally wrong .
science can only be trusted if its posted on a blog with no links to its funding or actual scientific expertise.

Wanna buy some healing crystals 😆 anti science nut whack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_0-gX7aUKk&feature=player_detailpage
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July 25, 2013 10:43am
kowtow

The bigots begin to bray.
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July 25, 2013 10:45am
Fletch

Griff, sorry, but that is utter bullshit.

Christianity and science go hand-in-hand. It was the Jesuit Fathers who made many advances in science, to the point of having 35 craters on the moon named after them. In fact, the first universities came about as a result of the Church, as did hospitals, and economics.

We have all heard a great deal about the Church’s alleged hostility toward science. What most people fail to realize is that historians of science have spent the past half-century drastically revising this conventional wisdom, arguing that the Church’s role in the development of Western science was far more salutary than previously thought. I am speaking not about Catholic apologists but about serious and important scholars of the history of science such as J.L. Heilbron, A.C. Crombie, David Lindberg, Edward Grant, and Thomas Goldstein.
It is all very well to point out that important scientists, like Louis Pasteur, have been Catholic. More revealing is how many priests have distinguished themselves in the sciences. It turns out, for instance, that the first person to measure the rate of acceleration of a freely falling body was Fr. Giambattista Riccioli. The man who has been called the father of Egyptology was Fr. Athanasius Kircher (also called “master of a hundred arts” for the breadth of his knowledge). Fr. Roger Boscovich, who has been described as “the greatest genius that Yugoslavia ever produced,” has often been called the father of modern atomic theory.

In the sciences it was the Jesuits in particular who distinguished themselves; some 35 craters on the moon, in fact, are named after Jesuit scientists and mathematicians.

By the eighteenth century, the Jesuits had contributed to the development of pendulum clocks, pantographs, barometers, reflecting telescopes and microscopes, to scientific fields as various as magnetism, optics and electricity. They observed, in some cases before anyone else, the colored bands on Jupiter’s surface, the Andromeda nebula and Saturn’s rings. They theorized about the circulation of the blood (independently of Harvey), the theoretical possibility of flight, the way the moon effected the tides, and the wave-like nature of light. Star maps of the southern hemisphere, symbolic logic, flood-control measures on the Po and Adige rivers, introducing plus and minus signs into Italian mathematics — all were typical Jesuit achievements, and scientists as influential as Fermat, Huygens, Leibniz and Newton were not alone in counting Jesuits among their most prized correspondents [Jonathan Wright, The Jesuits, 2004, p. 189].

Seismology, the study of earthquakes, has been so dominated by Jesuits that it has become known as “the Jesuit science.” It was a Jesuit, Fr. J.B. Macelwane, who wrote Introduction to Theoretical Seismology, the first seismology textbook in America, in 1936. To this day, the American Geophysical Union, which Fr. Macelwane once headed, gives an annual medal named after this brilliant priest to a promising young geophysicist.

Far from holding science back, Christians (especially brothers and priests) have been leaders in science.
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July 25, 2013 10:48am
Ryan Sproull

Christianity and science go hand-in-hand. It was the Jesuit Fathers who made many advances in science, to the point of having 35 craters on the moon named after them.

If that’s how it works, you must be wicked keen on Hellenic polytheism.
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July 25, 2013 10:51am
Fletch

97% of scientists do NOT agree with human-caused climate change.

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/06/18/climate-alarmists-caught-doctoring-97-percent-consensus-claims/

Global warming alarmists have been caught doctoring the results of a widely cited paper asserting there is a 97 percent scientific consensus regarding human-caused global warming. After taking a closer look at the paper, investigative journalists report the authors’ claims of a 97 percent consensus relied on them misclassifying the papers of some of the world’s most prominent global warming skeptics. At the same time, the authors deliberately presented a meaningless survey question that allowed them to twist the responses to fit their own preconceived global warming alarmism.

Misleading Question
Global warming alarmist John Cook, founder of the misleadingly named blog site Skeptical Science, published a paper with several other global warming alarmists claiming they reviewed nearly 12,000 abstracts of studies published in the peer-reviewed climate literature. Cook reported he and his colleagues found 97 percent of the papers that expressed a position on human-caused global warming “endorsed the consensus position that humans are causing global warming.”

As is the case with other ‘surveys’ alleging an overwhelming scientific consensus on global warming, the question surveyed did not address the issues of contention between global warming alarmists and skeptics. The question Cook and his colleagues surveyed was simply whether humans have caused some global warming. Most skeptics, like most alarmists, believe humans have caused some global warming. The issue dividing the two is whether humans are causing a global warming crisis demanding concerted action.

Nevertheless, global warming alarmists have been reporting the Cook study shows a 97 percent consensus that humans are causing a global warming crisis.

And how do they know? because they asked the scientists themselves, face-to-face.

Cook and his colleagues, for example, classified a peer-reviewed paper by scientist Craig Idso as explicitly supporting the ‘consensus’ position on global warming “without minimizing” the asserted severity of global warming. When Popular Technology asked Idso whether this was an accurate characterization of his paper, Idso responded, “That is not an accurate representation of my paper. The papers examined how the rise in atmospheric CO2 could be inducing a phase advance in the spring portion of the atmosphere’s seasonal CO2 cycle. Other literature had previously claimed a measured advance was due to rising temperatures, but we showed that it was quite likely the rise in atmospheric CO2 itself was responsible for the lion’s share of the change. It would be incorrect to claim that our paper was an endorsement of CO2-induced global warming.”

When Popular Technology asked physicist Nicola Scafetta whether Cook and his colleagues accurately classified one of his peer-reviewed papers as supporting the ‘consensus’ position, Scafetta similarly criticized the Skeptical Science classification.

“Cook et al. (2013) is based on a straw man argument because it does not correctly define the IPCC AGW theory, which is NOT that human emissions have contributed 50%+ of the global warming since 1900 but that almost 90-100% of the observed global warming was induced by human emission,” Scafetta responded. “What my papers say is that the IPCC [United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] view is erroneous because about 40-70% of the global warming observed from 1900 to 2000 was induced by the sun.”

Astrophysicist Nir Shaviv similarly objected to Cook and colleagues claiming he explicitly supported the “consensus” position about human-induced global warming.

Asked if Cook and colleagues accurately represented his paper, Shaviv responded, “Nope…. It is not an accurate representation. The paper shows that if cosmic rays are included in empirical climate sensitivity analyses, then one finds that different time scales consistently give a low climate sensitivity. i.e., it supports the idea that cosmic rays affect the climate and that climate sensitivity is low. This means that part of the 20th century [warming] should be attributed to the increased solar activity and that 21st century warming under a business as usual scenario should be low (about 1°C).”

“I couldn’t write these things more explicitly in the paper because of the refereeing, however, you don’t have to be a genius to reach these conclusions from the paper,” Shaviv added.
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July 25, 2013 10:53am
Ryan Sproull

Fletch,

From that link, “Investigative journalists at Popular Technology”.

Just so you know: http://www.populartechnology.net/
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July 25, 2013 10:55am
RightNow

griff, “Ok all major scientific organizations governments and 97% of climate scientists are totally wrong .”

Not “totally” wrong griff (even ignoring the fraudulent “97%” claim).
There has been warming in the 20th century, and they do acknowledge the current pause, so they’re not “totally” wrong.
What they’ve been proved wrong about by the real world not behaving according to the hypotheses,per the scientific method, is how much warming is attributable to anthropogenic causes (excluding UHI which they discount too much).

Stop being a science denier griff.
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July 25, 2013 10:59am
backster

GRIFF: ““I will bet that in ten years the same idiots who post denial rubbish now will be complaining because nothing was done about it.”

Hey Griff…….You told us this ten years ago…..It was never going to snow again in LOndon, Polar Bears extinct, No glaciers, Pacific Islands submerged,……………..the only thing that has happened is more bullshit, and large cosy parties at exotic locations every couple of years for politicians and associated gravy slurpers..
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July 25, 2013 11:09am
RightNow

“large cosy parties at exotic locations every couple of years for politicians and associated gravy slurpers.”

Yeah griff, you really think those people that fly around the world and hire fleets of limousines to attend ‘climate conferences’ really believe that CO2 emissions could lead to global catastrophe? Wouldn’t that make their actions outrageously reprehensible.
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July 25, 2013 11:17am
All_on_Red

Hey Griff, I hear you’re telling people you have Aspergers. I think you misheard the Doctors . I reckon they said you are full of shit and your arse needs purging.
Still true today, well thats what 97% of us think.
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July 25, 2013 11:19am
Griff

Not “totally” wrong griff (even ignoring the fraudulent “97%” claim).

prove it wrong…..find a peer reviewed study that has a different conclusion.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/306/5702/1686.full
http://med.ucsd.edu/documents/Oreskes_2007_MIT_Press.pdf

Nassa quotes it its Published science one of many studies that come to the same conclusion
how do the denial nutwhacks attempt to prove the 97% wrong by quoting the other 3% 😆
you can not substantiate your bullshit unless you quote denial blog sites…
sorry right now blog sites and religious nutwhacks dont cut it in the real world.
nassa, the royal society of science, the national academy science, the UN, the world bank, the government of nz etc, etc, etc,
vrs
blogs and ~~scientists~~ nutwhacks paid for by the oil industry’s profits 😆
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July 25, 2013 11:29am
lilman

I see the dairy payout has dropped.
I am heartened to the news that every non dairy farmer will be donating and paying extra for their milk because those same farmers have subsidised your coffee milk,butter,yogurt and other foods.
To think those rich bastards are going to get more hand outs from the government and the schools will now pay for their milk and pay for their fridges.
New Zealanders are such a loyal and caring bunch.
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July 25, 2013 11:32am
RightNow

Really, of all the stuff I wrote you want to focus on the 97% consensus issue? I don’t care about a manufactured consensus because it is absolutely irrelevant to the real world observations.

“nutwhacks paid for by the oil industry’s profits”
So you’ve heard about Dana Nuttijelly?
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July 25, 2013 11:38am
wikiriwhis business

Launching a lawsuit against the very company that is responsible for a farmer suicide every 30 minutes, 5 million farmers are now suing Monsanto for as much as 6.2 billion euros (around 7.7 billion US dollars). The reason? As with many other cases, such as the ones that led certain farming regions to be known as the ‘suicide belt’, Monsanto has been reportedly taxing the farmers to financial shambles with ridiculous royalty charges. The farmers state that Monsanto has been unfairly gathering exorbitant profits each year on a global scale from “renewal” seed harvests, which are crops planted using seed from the previous year’s harvest.

Full article: http://www.naturalcuresnotmedicine.com/2013/07/5-million-farmers-sue-monsanto-for-77.html#iOBEDr2b4QyD4StG.99
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July 25, 2013 11:45am
Kea

Wanna buy some healing crystals

Griff, stop using KB to peddle your eco-friendly alternative medicene.

scientists nutwhacks paid for by the oil industry’s profits

It is good to see you admitting that scientists can be infulenced by money. That is a point I have made numerous times in our chats. The real money is in AGW not “denial”. Oil companies make money from oil and the world can not get enough of it. The “climate scientists” make money from AGW and have no other income source.

Use some common sense and it all becomes clearer.
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July 25, 2013 11:51am
Pete George

Some strong support for the current state of the GCSB bill:

Press Editorial: Changes to GCSB bill far from trivial </a?

Contrary to the assertions of opposition parties, the changes Prime Minister John Key has made to the Government Communications Security Bureau bill are not merely cosmetic.

All these changes make substantial modifications to the bill as it was first presented to Parliament.

Questions about the operations of the GCSB and, in fact, the whole intelligence and security apparatus in New Zealand, may, however, linger.

This is not because of any serious malfeasance by any of them. Far from it. Apart from a few far-Left critics who object to its involvement in international intelligence co-operation, the GCSB, for instance, has operated for decades without raising any concerns about its activities

Possibly the most important provision in the new legislation will be the one providing for a review of the GCSB’s activities in two years and regular reviews thereafter.

The threats the GCSB and other intelligence agencies are meant to guard against are, in today’s hyperconnected world, rapidly evolving.

Boundaries that were once hard and fast are dissolving. The agencies and the laws governing them must evolve to meet that reality. So, too, must the oversight of them.

Key still needs to deliver on his promise to make it clear in legislation that “the collection of metadata will be treated as communication and require a search warrant”.
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July 25, 2013 11:54am
RRM

Dime – Maybe you could read The Standard for us too, and give us a daily wrap up of the “highlights”??!?
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July 25, 2013 12:00pm
Griff

You dont like the real world temperature observation so the temperature record is discounted using bullshit generated by some one who has been proven wrong.
you dont like the peer reviewed scientific consensus so this is said to be false again using unpublished bullshit on blogs.
you dont like the observed changes in the natural world so again ignore them.
sea ice melt again bullshit on blogs beats real world observations.http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/

notice the pattern
Unfortunately for you and the rest of the nut whacks significant warming is already locked in for future generations.
failure to act now is only increasing the costs when we have no choice.
The total amount of co2 we can safely emit is not far of. better to conserve some headroom in emissions for the future than squander the future due to blind greed now .
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July 25, 2013 12:07pm
Kea

Griff, the only “emissions” I am concerned about are from the shit your talking. 🙂
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July 25, 2013 12:14pm
Griff

Oil companies make money from oil and have no other income source.
The “climate scientists” can make more money from AGW denial then from doing actual science.
fixed for you retard.
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July 25, 2013 12:25pm
flipper

Colville, Reference your contribution on the KDC and HDC… I sent your comments to a buddy standing for Mayor in Hastings this year. His response:

*** ” I would love to hear more.

I have spent the past three years battling bureaucratic obstruction and although progress has been minimal I believe it would be worse without me.

Councils are full of people both at staff and elected levels who have specialised in making themselves important by making everything difficult. Few of the staff have ever ventured into the real world where people can elect or reject their services. The same could be said of many councillors and our Mayor.

I am standing for both council and mayor of the HDC and I am aware of the views of many towards HDC on matters of consents.

Three of my policies are:

* Encourage businesses by not impeding them with bureaucracy

* Stop the spend-fest. Prioritise boosting the economy over building monuments and feel good projects

* Aid the building industry by reducing consent delays and minimising compliance costs.

My popularity is never great but will probably be lower still as those in charge become more aware of these priorities because these are the jobs of many council staff.

S[redacted by F].
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July 25, 2013 12:28pm
dime

“Dime – Maybe you could read The Standard for us too, and give us a daily wrap up of the “highlights”??!?”

I was making a general point about commercial radio. The highest rating show in the land peddling the religion of the hippies. Disgraceful.

If you like I can give you a detailed run down of my afternoon wank?

Maybe link to the redtube video i watched?
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July 25, 2013 12:33pm
Kea

dime, check out Tube8. Thank me latter 😉
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July 25, 2013 12:41pm
dime

kea – pornmd. great little search engine. includes tube8 in the results 😀

redtube is higher res though
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July 25, 2013 12:58pm
wikiriwhis business

Ok, here’s your laugh for the day

Obama to Students: I’ve Cut the Deficit in Half

http://www.thelibertypaper.org/2013/07/25/obama-to-students-ive-cut-the-deficit-in-half/?fb_source=pubv1
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July 25, 2013 1:16pm
RightNow

griff:
“Oil companies make money from oil and have no other income source.”
Here’s a 30 second search rebuttal to that. Duh.
http://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/sustainability/the-energy-future/alternative-energy.html
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-05-10/big-oils-big-in-biofuels

“The total amount of co2 we can safely emit is not far of.(sic)”
And yet all those concerned scientists, politicians and activists think flying around the world and hiring limousines is ok.

“The “climate scientists” can make more money from AGW denial then from doing actual science.”
Well that’s just lies. Here’s just one piece of proof (that also ties in with Big Oil getting in on the Big Green gravy train).
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/21/us/exxon-led-group-is-giving-a-climate-grant-to-stanford.html
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July 25, 2013 1:43pm
TMC

Just heard Cunliffe on the radio talking about the proposed fishery changes. Not the first I heard about them either but it reminded me…is National TRYING to lose votes with this one???? Marketing research shows fishing as a national pastime is second only to rugby. What are they thinking with these changes? Lowering recreational limits but increasing commercial?? That will go down like the proverbial cup of cold sick. Fair enough to lower them all around, and increase the size limit, but not so good to just cut recreational and increase the trawlers’ take. Of course Cunliffe wouldn’t say what Labour would do but it’s bound to be a big vote loser for National if they go down the path of cutting rec/increasing commercial.
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July 25, 2013 1:52pm
RRM

Take it easy… it’s just that that’s not the first time you’ve commented about how sh!t a radio programme you chose to listen to was. 😉

Someone I work with loves listening to Radio Live. Any time I get in the work car to go out to a site there’s always either those guys, or else Radio Sport playing. If I was one of the old guys who couldn’t figure out how to change stations, it would drive me freaking insane…
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July 25, 2013 1:53pm
Griff

DUH

They have sniffed the future and it doesn’t smell of oil.

All your links confirm climate change.

Don’t you actually read what you link to in your fever of nut whack denial?

You do know its considered a mental disorder?

I should stop making fun of you idiots.

Not

http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Denial.html
Definition
Denial is the refusal to acknowledge the existence or severity of unpleasant external realities or internal thoughts and feelings.
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July 25, 2013 2:17pm
wikiriwhis business

Russia’s Largest War Games in Decades

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9ldgQ6Mz0A
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July 25, 2013 2:24pm
Fletch

Former President George H. W. Bush shaved his head this week in support of a young boy named Patrick, the 2-year-old son of a member of Bush’s security detail suffering from leukemia.

Other members of Bush’s Secret Service detail also shaved their heads in solidarity.

https://twitter.com/jgm41/status/360132869517082625/photo/1
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July 25, 2013 2:28pm
wikiriwhis business

Tesla Motors proposes ‘hyperloop’ transit system

If you still think electric cars or rocket ships are cool, you haven’t been keeping up with Musk. His “hyperloop” is a proposed “really rapid transit system” that he says will be able to get a passenger from San Francisco to Los Angeles in a half-hour. That would mean travel at 800 miles per hour, or about twice the speed of conventional aircraft.

http://news.cincinnati.com/usatoday/article/2521215
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July 25, 2013 2:28pm
RightNow

griff “All your links confirm climate change.”
Should read “all your links confirm opportunists want to profit from the climate change scare”
FIFY
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July 25, 2013 2:35pm
wikiriwhis business

When will the economy collapse? Well in order to answer that question we have to first look at the geopolitical variables holding the dollar up, in particular the petrodollar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tsUZinrCo8
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July 25, 2013 2:36pm
Griff

Denial is the refusal to acknowledge the existence or severity of unpleasant external realities or internal thoughts and feelings.

Big scary world out there for the poow wittle wingnuts 😆

You linked to them RN not me yet as soon as you realize your stupidity you cant help adding another layer.

I am sure that Exxon Mobil spending 225,000,000 dollars over ten years on alternative energy research has more to do with hoping to gain financial advantage in the coming carbon less economy than “cashing in on a scare”.
BP became uneconomic in solar panel manufacturing yet they are still continuing to invest in alternative energy research.
These story’s of alternative energy research investment are at a time when the worlds known oil reserves have been expending exponentially.

FFS logic fails cascade ever onwards…….Cognitive dissonance will fuck your head if you keep up to long RN 😆
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July 25, 2013 3:01pm
RightNow

“You linked to them RN not me yet as soon as you realize your stupidity you cant help adding another layer.”

Do tell griff – quote something from any one of my links that proves CO2 is the dominant cause of global warming.
You seem to think that because someone gets on the renewables gravy train that it constitutes proof of CAGW.

Big Oil… griff’s new friends lol
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July 25, 2013 3:09pm
Grendel

Oh dear,

just got emailed about an AGM i was not that interested in going to, and the announcement of the guest speaker as Celia Wade brown made that a certainty.

what was hilarious was her bio in the email:

>
Mayor Wade-Brown is politically independent and emphasises an inclusive approach. Her top priorities are good transport choices, good jobs especially in creative and clean technology industries and support for local communities.
>

apparently being a green party hack makes you ‘independent’. its just coincidence that she spouts the usual waffle about ‘clean’ this and that that the greens do. next you will be telling me iona pannett and penny dim are independent.
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July 25, 2013 3:19pm
dime

RRM – how old are you? you cant be far away from becoming a talkback listener!!

I used to be exclusively radio sport. then they employed that awful aussie woman to do mornings. then it got worse. mark richardson. urgh. i cant stand the dude. you can hear the smile in his voice whenever he speaks. i just want to break his jaw 😀

so now its ZB in the morning and the two racists at lunch for 10 mins cause i like to hear what the enemy is up to 😀
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July 25, 2013 3:21pm
Ross12

Well done Simon Bridges

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/18143002/oil-company-didnt-ask-for-law-changes/

Will Greenpeace apologise ? Of course not.
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July 25, 2013 3:29pm
kowtow

RRM “gets in the work car”………let me guess…….hmmmmm…….Local Council Tobacco Elimination Compliance Officer.
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July 25, 2013 3:37pm
sbk

there you go …problem sorted…”Earth’s self regulation of Carbon Dioxide is remarkably stable: From CSIRO: ‘What we learned is that in spite of droughts, floods, volcano eruptions, El Niño and other events, the Earth system has been remarkably consistent in regulating the inter-annual variations in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels,”. …good on old(very old) Ma Nature.

sits in drive…pumps acelerator for good measure…just to annoy the hell out of every alarmist( thanks for nothing…but petrol prices were never going to bother me…just indolent dope smokers with dubious IQs)…sucking up those glorious fumes…
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July 25, 2013 3:52pm
Kea

BP became uneconomic in solar panel manufacturing yet they are still continuing to invest in alternative energy research.

Yes Griff, BP has spent billions on alternative energy development. This does not support your BIG OIL conspiracy theories. Nor do the company websites of BIG OIL, which clearly show concern for climate change. These companies spend millions on their public image and will not set themselves up as a target by telling the truth about AGW. They want to be seen as clean and green. None of your claims about BIG OIL are supported by the readily available facts.
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July 25, 2013 4:07pm
RRM

let me guess…….hmmmmm…….Local Council Tobacco Elimination Compliance Officer.

😆 LOL

Mini-redbaiter being wrong on kiwiblog, must be a day ending in y.
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July 25, 2013 4:50pm
cha

Gravity – Detached.

http://youtu.be/C4pcg7bXgmU
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July 25, 2013 4:55pm
Griff

😆
wingnuts spurt the funniest rubbish keeps me laughing for hours.

kea just because they publicly spend money on green washing and invest money into renewable energy does not mean that are not also trying to delay the reduction in the use of hydrocarbon as well.
There are direct finical links between denial organizations such as New Zealand climate change coalition, scientists such as bob carter one of its founders and hydro carbon producers.
This is documented from tax records and confirmed by those receiving the funding.

Right Now keep spinning around you alternative energy links.

Its pointless confabulation that doesn’t require another reply except.

Lo, Lo, Lo ,Lo……. loser. 😆

Then we have someone claiming co2 is not increasing 😆 real planet nut whack stuff.
By the way wasting gas or burning coal or whatever doesn’t bother me.
It gets posted often. Just stupid pointless crap to make you feel better because you can not win the argument
I own and regularly rev the crap out of lots of filthy 2/ oil burning motors
Griffs favorite all time sound is 4:18 on this 😆 rev away its your gas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m48vyc5beNg
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July 25, 2013 5:04pm
Redbaiter

What a shambles.
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July 25, 2013 5:12pm
Andrei

Direct democracy in action and how Montenegro might dodge a bullet
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July 25, 2013 5:18pm
Manolo

Disillusioned with the Kenyan: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/24/fox-news-poll-summer-discontent-with-obama-congress-continues/
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July 25, 2013 5:44pm
graham

In a move that probably surprises absolutely nobody, Hone Harawira disagrees with the judge at his trial.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8962452/Harawira-I-don-t-think-so-judge

Hone is up on a charge of failing to comply with a lawful requirement given by an enforcement officer under the Land Transport Act. In other words, he didn’t move his car when told to. At one point, it seems Hone was trying to justify himself and the judge told Hone, “The case is about whether or not you refused to move your vehicle.”

Hone replied, “I don’t think so, judge. I think there’s a wider context.”

Not being a lawyer myself, but I suspect it doesn’t matter how much you try to justify yourself or claim there’s a greater good or whatever; at the end of the day it has to come down to somebody being charged with a crime under the law. Anything else and you’re getting into a vague area of asking people to judge according to their morality, personal beliefs, whatever. And that isn’t how the law works.

Oh and apparently, being told that you have to move out of a house you’re renting is fatal.

One resident who received “the dreaded letter” telling her her house would be moved, said five residents on her street had died after getting the same news.

Take note all you landlords.
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July 25, 2013 5:54pm
Manolo

Socialists crooks across the Tasman: http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/taxpayer_funded_trainers_give_refugees_propaganda_lauding_rudd_and_the_gree/
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July 25, 2013 5:55pm
graham

I mean, what am I missing here? Why does the judge have to tell a Member of Parliament how the law works?!
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July 25, 2013 5:55pm
liarbors a joke

Mat McLean tv1 news tonite..opening story..is/was he on speed?!
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July 25, 2013 6:07pm

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