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July 20, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 July 2013

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General Debate

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Steve (North Shore)

I’m giving work a rest today. Paid enough Tax for one week, someone else can have a turn supporting the bludgers
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July 20, 2013 8:04am
Harriet

Over 500,000 white males died to end US slavery.

And what exactly have NZ women got to show for abortion and the removal of male re-productive rights?

You progs can stick ya white male guilt! 😎
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July 20, 2013 8:04am
Pete George

Shane Jones distances Labour from Greens on oil and gas

Shane Jones has been in Taranaki promoting oil and gas drilling and fracking.

Offshore oil and gas drilling was an essential feature of domestic and export growth, Mr Jones said, and businesses and enterprises enabling it would get full government support.

This is an obvious contrast to the Green approach, so this raises questions about whether a Labour-Green government could support it at all, let alone fully.

But more interestingly, the Jones approach seems to also contrast with the very Green leanings of Labour’s Energy spokesperson Moana Mackey, who just last week was promoting her Sustainable Energy member’s bill, and has spoken against East Coast drilling and fracking.

Is there any communication within the Labour caucus? It looks like it’s Fracking fractured in Labour.
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July 20, 2013 8:13am
Manolo

The Kenyan is milking it: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/07/19/obama-trayvon-marin-george-zimmerman/2568811/
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July 20, 2013 8:15am
Steve (North Shore)

A friend in Colorado who is employed in the ‘Fracking’ industry just put this on his Facebook.
Seems the alarmists were not truthfull?
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/07/19/landmark-study-alert-we-still-cant-actually-find-a-link-between-fracking-and-groundwater-contamination-shocker/
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July 20, 2013 8:16am
DavidR

Harriet – what the hell are you talking about?
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July 20, 2013 8:27am
OneTrack

Thanks Pete @8:13. It just shows that voting Labour this time would be like playing some sort of gambling game similar to Russian roulette.

But if they stick with Shearer it is clear the Greens would really be in charge. Not necessarily because Shearer supports Green (I mean red of course) but because they will be able to push him around on a personal level to do what they want.
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July 20, 2013 8:29am
Pete George

OneTrack – it looks like Jones is saying whatever he wants, either ignorant of or in defiance of other Labour spokespeople.
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July 20, 2013 8:38am
cha

Seems going bust isn’t an option any more.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110615/NEWS06/106150441/Bankruptcy-not-an-option-cities-Gov-Rick-Snyder-say

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20110203/SPECIAL01/110202002/

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20110203/METRO01/102030395
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July 20, 2013 8:40am
hj

I heard Greenfly on Country Life. For someone who embraces Maori ownership of the foreshore and seabed and knocks the evil coloniser (most of whom are stuck in working class suburbs) he occupies a nice bit of whenua.

http://robertguyton.blogspot.co.nz/
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July 20, 2013 8:45am
OneTrack

Pete – Sounds like Jones is simply saying what he knows what his audience wants to hear.
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July 20, 2013 8:46am
hj

“Protesters took to the streets of Invercargill yesterday, targeting a city cafe that is refusing to serve Israeli nationals.

About 15 placard-waving protesters stood opposite the Mevlana Cafe in Esk St at lunchtime chanting “Kiwis don’t discriminate, Kiwis don’t give in to hate”.
…..
Several people being served at the Mevlana Cafe said the cafe owner was standing up for what he believed in.

Robert Guyton, of Riverton, said Mr Tekinkaya felt passionately about the death of innocent women and children and “who could blame him?”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/798552
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July 20, 2013 8:52am
Harriet

“…..Harriet – what the hell are you talking about?….”

US whites are constantly being blamed for the under achievment of US blacks. They call it racism. Yet as I’ve pointed out – 500,000 white males died in the civil war to free blacks from slavery.

Also, in NZ, women have been having abortions as they -themselves- see fit, yet males who may have fathered the children are told that their views are not as relevent as the women’s, even if they themselves are prepared to commit to a relationship or father the child alone. Their re-productive rights are ignored at the whim of the woman. That is law.

All I’m asking is, what exactly have NZ women got to show for that, as we are always being told that women are ‘still disadvantaged against’ and are not doing as ‘well as men’. I can’t see how that is, as abortion has ‘liberated’ women so they can do what men do – or so we’ve been told!

Because if they’ve had one abortion to get educated and gain experiance – then logic would suggest to have a second, third, or forth, so as to remain reliable and further themselves even more – to say boardroom level. Men only get there from being soundly reliable! 😎
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July 20, 2013 8:52am
hj

“Fa’afafine
“You are just another shining example of the glorious miracles and creations of our Lord.”
The prime minister of Samoa, Tuilaepa Sailele said that, of the fa’afafine he was addressing.
Isn’t that marvelous!
POSTED BY ROBERTGUYTON
http://robertguyton.blogspot.co.nz/2013/07/faafafine.html
………………
No it isn’t. The Pacific Islands are overpopulated. God doesn’t make people: people make people; rats make rats and unless somebody addresses population we have war or famine.
Ever wondered why the PI’s are so big in sport or such loud voices?
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July 20, 2013 9:17am
Left Right and Centre

You know you’re too used to winter when you can see your breath indoors and you’re not cold wearing a T-shirt and trackpants.

The gift of a warmer winter’s day. Thank you weather gods….
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July 20, 2013 9:19am
Harriet

“…..Cafe owner Mustafa Tekinkaya, a Turkish Muslim, has said throughout this week his actions had nothing to do with racism….”

Of course not….it never is with the Jews!

“We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.” ― Golda Meir

“The Arabs always play salami politics, wanting us to slice more and more land off Israel bit by bit – it’s balony, because without Golan Heights and other places we would not then be able to defend ourselves from attack.” – Golda Meir.
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July 20, 2013 9:22am
flipper

93 % of all blacks shot, and or shot and killed, in the US are shot by other blacks.

In clear statement of fact, the problem is black on black, NOT white/Hispanic on black.

Obama, Holden et al are engaged in a political defence which will ultimately go no where. Oh dear.
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July 20, 2013 9:23am
hj

Former Mobil Vice President Warns of Fracking and Climate Change
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/17605-former-mobil-vp-warns-of-fracking-and-climate-change
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July 20, 2013 9:23am
Left Right and Centre

Regarding Central North Island 5.7 earthquake….

Ok… being a dropkick I was in bed. It woke me up. You hold your breath…. and it seemed to end at a rate that I found agreeable.

And then the media reports and interviews with all of these idiots… it’s too funny…

There was panic in Wellington…. people were running into the streets screaming. “it was bad… I saw my life flashing in front of my eyes”. Ok, I might be embellishing that. A bit.

Pre 2011 normal seismic activity was a bit passe even to use in smalltalk. ‘Did ya feel the shake?’. ‘Yeah’. *awkward lull* ‘So- what do you think of the ‘Canes chances this year?’.

Post Chch… any kind of a shake in Wellington and people lose their freakin minds now!! Far out… ‘Yeah, I felt it as I shat my pants and found religion’. Please…

Any tremor worth it’s salt has got to last longer than a few seconds. You’ve got to count slowly to five. And then ten. If it’s still going at ten… by all means feel free to shit yourself at that point. Anything less are just smalltime shakes that happen *all the fucking time* and *always do, and have, and will*. You’d be rightfully upset if someone ‘tried to adjust the time on your clock’… but not if they pat you on the back gently. Time to ease off the hysteria switch.
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July 20, 2013 9:31am
hj

The next earthquake centred on the Alpine Fault should begin in South Westland and will probably have a magnitude of 8+.

It will be felt throughout the South Island and as far away as Sydney. The map below indicates the range of the earthquake and its shaking intensity (shown in Roman numerals).
The historical patterns of earthquakes and current research on the alpine fault indicate that it is likely to rupture very soon. It is 280 years since the last earthquake. The current pressures in the tectonic plates make it probable that the next earthquake will occur in the next 1-20 years
http://www.orc.govt.nz/Information-and-Services/Natural-Hazards/Great-Alpine-Fault-Earthquake/
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July 20, 2013 9:37am
Fletch

Very good video in which the presenter just tries to lay out the facts in the Zimmerman/Martin case. Some stuff I definitely hadn’t heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF-Ax5E8EJc
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July 20, 2013 9:42am
Left Right and Centre

MrFunky18 hours ago
I wonder if you could get real world ad popup blocking on something like google glass. So when you’re walking down the street it turns all ads in shop windows and on bus stops etc into something else like a pretty picture.

an MP3 player transformed the sound quality of my pak n save visits, eliminating semi-literate drawbling, and there’s hope that soon cutting edge technology will also eliminate the meatbag visual pollution for a fullhouse of sensory relief
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July 20, 2013 9:48am
OneTrack

The Nation – Rachel Smalley this morning. Had to turn it off. She was just being a useless interviewer who didn’t want to hear what the Minister was saying and was just channeling all the outraged lefty trolls that we hear on Kiwiblog. Maybe she is Yoza.

She seems to be angling for a place high on the Greens list for the next election.
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July 20, 2013 10:01am
cha

Oh dear.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/virginia-governor-gop-candidate-ken-cuccinelli-launches-website-pushes-reinstatement-state-anti-sodomy-law-article-1.1402340
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July 20, 2013 10:02am
hj

Mish’s Global Economic analysis
City of Houston is Bankrupt (So are California, Oregon, and Pension Plans in General)

Houston, we have a problem. We are bankrupt.

That is the finding of Bob Lemer, CPA, Retired Partner at Ernst & Young; Aubrey M. Farb, CPA, Retired Partner at Grant Thornton; and Tom Roberts, CPA, Retired Partner at Fitts Roberts.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/10/city-of-houston-is-bankrupt-so-are.html#eckCslhcolIZKXho.99
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July 20, 2013 10:08am
wat dabney

“500,000 white males died in the civil war to free blacks from slavery.”

Harriet, the civil war was fought to preserve the Union, not to end slavery.
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July 20, 2013 10:17am
Left Right and Centre

Could there be a better example of conservatives vs progressives than the national flag debate?

Thank you KB for providing my political education. I got it straight away thanks to all the training.

As I listened to clearly deeply threatened lunatics climbing into Raybon Kan on ZB over this issue…. I thought to myself it seems like another issue that divides age groups for and against. All the oldies sounded like they’d got up on Xmas morning and someone had taken their toys from under the tree.

Personally I think it’s retarded to have a flag so similar to the Aussie one. And it’s boring. I like what Canada did with theirs, and wouldn’t mind something similar in NZ. And I’m not a million years old. Age split issue.

That’s 1 000. Good fun.
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July 20, 2013 10:18am
Left Right and Centre

OneTrack 10:01 am three words- arse with class. She interviews people? I don’t notice if there’s anything else onscreen when she’s in the shot.
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July 20, 2013 10:22am
Harriet

I gave you an up tick for that link Cha.

Cheers – mate. 😎
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July 20, 2013 10:28am
SGA

@harriet

500,000 white males died in the civil war to free blacks from slavery.

Well…
1. 500,000 seems a little high for Union losses alone – sure you haven’t slipped in a few Confederate losses as well?
2. Oh yeah, that’s right – several hundred thousand white males also died in the civil war to keep slavery in the US.
3. By the end of the war, nearly 10% of the Union troops were black.
4. While the civil war was going on, racism was alive and well in the North (check out what happened during the New York draft riots, for example).
5. Like wat dabney, I’m not so sure that the Union forces saw themselves as on a specific crusade to “free blacks”, perhaps more to stop the upstart Southerners’ succession plans in general (in which, to be fair, the issue of slavery played a major role).
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July 20, 2013 10:29am
Kea

wat dabney, the idea that slavery is wrong is a very recent idea that came out of European countries. The slave trade had been going on in Africa for centuries and continues on today. The Americans were simply new customers. The reason it was opposed had little to do with human rights and everything to do with politics and economics. The politicians in American who opposed it did not consider blacks equal and said so. Blacks only need to thank America for popularising the idea slavery might be wrong.
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July 20, 2013 10:30am
liarbors a joke

Hi 5 LRC…shes got whats goin on…nothin wrong at all
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July 20, 2013 10:38am
Harriet

“….Harriet, the civil war was fought to preserve the Union, not to end slavery….”

Yes it was fought to end slavery – the 13th ammendment later finalised it.

It made the eradication of slavery an explicit war goal, in addition to the goal of reuniting the Union.

“…..The Emancipation Proclamation was an executive order issued by President Abraham Lincoln on January 1, 1863, as a war measure during the American Civil War, to all segments of the Executive branch (including the Army and Navy) of the United States. It proclaimed the freedom of slaves in the ten states that were still in rebellion,[1] thus applying to 3.1 million of the 4 million slaves in the U.S. at the time. The Proclamation was based on the president’s constitutional authority as commander in chief of the armed forces;[2] it was not a law passed by Congress. The Proclamation also ordered that “suitable” persons among those freed could be enrolled into the paid service of United States’ forces, and ordered the Union Army (and all segments of the Executive branch) to “recognize and maintain the freedom of” the ex-slaves. The Proclamation did not compensate the owners, did not itself outlaw slavery, and did not make the ex-slaves (called freedmen) citizens. It made the eradication of slavery an explicit war goal, in addition to the goal of reuniting the Union.[3]

Around 20,000 to 50,000 slaves in regions where rebellion had already been subdued were immediately emancipated. It could not be enforced in areas still under rebellion, but as the Union army took control of Confederate regions, the Proclamation provided the legal framework for freeing more than 3 million more slaves in those regions. Prior to the Proclamation, in accordance with the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850, escaped slaves were either returned to their masters or held in camps as contraband for later return. The Proclamation only applied to slaves in Confederate held lands; it did not apply to those in the five slave states that were not in rebellion, nor to most regions already controlled by the Union army. Emancipation in those regions would come after separate state actions and/or the December 1865 ratification of the Thirteenth Amendment, which made slavery illegal everywhere in the U.S….”
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July 20, 2013 10:49am
Kea

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

Abraham Lincoln
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July 20, 2013 11:04am
Harriet

“…..1. 500,000 seems a little high for Union losses alone – sure you haven’t slipped in a few Confederate losses as well?…”

Yeah your right – I got it from a comment posted on a Trayvon report and used that withouit thinking.

Having a guess, I’ll reduce it down to 200,000 white males died on the Union side while putting an end to slavery.

The blacks are still being ungrateful by pushing the white quilt bullshit on whites in general today though – as it was whites that also freed them – and died doing so.

What more could they want?
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July 20, 2013 11:11am
Harriet

Who the fuck was the idiot that gave me a down tick for posting what the The Emancipation Proclamation was about ?

It states explicitly that the Civil War was ALSO fought to end slavery.
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July 20, 2013 11:16am
Kea

A word from that hero of the left Gandhi, to show our “racist” white people are !

“A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.”
(Reference: The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, Government of India (CWMG), Vol I, p. 150)

Regarding forcible registration with the state of blacks:
“One can understand the necessity for registration of Kaffirs who will not work.” (Reference: CWMG, Vol I, p. 105)

“Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian Location should be chosen for dumping down all the Kaffirs of the town passes my comprehension…the Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location.” (Reference: CWMG, Vol I, pp. 244-245)

His description of black inmates:
“Only a degree removed from the animal.”
“Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized – the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals.” – Mar. 7, 1908 (Reference: CWMG, Vol VIII, pp. 135-136)
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July 20, 2013 11:17am
wat dabney

Harriet,

Lincoln would have permitted slavery to continue:

“In his inaugural address, delivered on March 4, 1861, Lincoln proclaimed that it was his duty to maintain the Union. He also declared that he had no intention of ending slavery where it existed, or of repealing the Fugitive Slave Law”
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2967.html

He would have allowed slavery to continue in order to maintain the Union.

And let’s not forget that slavery effectively continued for at least another fifty years after the civil war. If the Federal Government had actually wanted to emancipate blacks it would have rooted it out. In reality there was no real emancipation until after WWII and the civil rights movement of the sixties.
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July 20, 2013 11:17am
Harriet

“….Lincoln would have permitted slavery to continue:…’

So?

over 3,000,000 slaves were freed from the civil war effort – that’s well over 3/4’s of them!

“…..In reality there was no real emancipation until after WWII and the civil rights movement of the sixties…..”

Fuck off and stop being a wanker….I said slavery!
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July 20, 2013 11:26am
Reid

“Protesters took to the streets of Invercargill yesterday, targeting a city cafe that is refusing to serve Israeli nationals…About 15 placard-waving protesters stood opposite the Mevlana Cafe in Esk St at lunchtime chanting “Kiwis don’t discriminate, Kiwis don’t give in to hate”.

I wonder if they’d do the same thing if the cafe owner refused to serve a couple of bankers who couldn’t stop bwahaha-ing at the passers-by?
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July 20, 2013 11:29am
Reid

And in the ‘who gives a fuck’ dept:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/8943555/Royal-couple-make-dash-to-London
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July 20, 2013 11:34am
publicwatchdog

SUPPORT VINCE SIEMER – SUPPORT THE ‘RULE OF LAW’!

Vince Siemer will present himself for imprisonment today, Saturday 20 July at Mt Eden prison, (although he hasn’t broken any law, and Chief Justice Sian Elias agrees that he shouldn’t be jailed.)

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1307/S00143/judgment-vincent-ross-siemer-v-solicitor-general.htm

(Chief Justice Sian Elias – dissenting minority view):

“Conclusions

[86] For the reasons given, I would allow the appeal. I consider that the inherent power to make orders of the kind made by Winkelmann J was excluded by s 138 of the Criminal Justice Act. I would have quashed the sentence on that basis. Since that is a minority view, it has been necessary to explain why I differ from the majority in their reasons, which are dispositive of the appeal. I am of the view that a non-party to proceedings in which an order is made against the world may raise error
of law in the making of the order as a defence in contempt proceedings based on its breach. On this ground I would have allowed the appeal and quashed the sentence. ”

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Vince Siemer has been sentenced to 6 weeks jail for ‘contempt of Court’ for publishing Chief High Court Judge Winkelmann’s suppressed decision that the Urewera defendants were not entitled to trial by jury, and the public were not allowed to know this:

How is this for gob-smacking judicial HYPOCRISY from none other than Chief High Court Judge Winkelmann herself?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10878372

“The expectation is we give detailed reasons for everything. One of the major ways we are accountable is through justifying our actions and we justify our actions through reasons and we are accountable for them.

“Anyone can see exactly how we reached that view, why we reached that view and they are free to criticise us and, in fact, criticism of those reasons is good.”

SO HOW COME VINCE SIEMER IS GOING TO JAIL CHIEF HIGH COURT JUDGE WINKELMANN?

BECAUSE HE PUBLISHED YOUR SUPPRESSED DECISION!

This will be the FOURTH time that Vince Siemer has been jailed, although he has not broken any law.

How is it LAWFUL for NZ Judges to just ‘make it up’ and exercise ‘judicial discretion’ and ‘inherent power’, which is not itself based upon the ‘Rule of Law’?

Do YOU want to ‘stand up and be counted’ against effectively ‘out of control’ NZ Judges?

If NZ Judges can get away with unjustly imprisoning Vince Siemer – WHO IS NEXT?

PROTEST:

WHEN: TODAY – Saturday 20 July 2013

TIME: 4pm

WHERE: Outside entrance to Mt Eden Prison

cnr of Normanby and Lauder Rds.

http://www.zoomin.co.nz/nz/auckland/mount+eden/lauder+road/-mt+eden+prison/

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?p=200

See why corrupt members of the New Zealand Judiciary want to close down ‘Whistleblower’ Vince Siemer!

http://www.kiwisfirst.co.nz/

How to ensure genuine ‘transparency and accountability’ in NZ Courts?

Legislate for a legally-enforcable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary, to ensure they are not ‘above the law’.

Ensure that ALL NZ Court proceedings are recorded, and audio records made available to parties who request them.

Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’, to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

In my considered opinion, these three steps would help transform the NZ Judiciary.

In New Zealand, ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ – why aren’t these three steps already enshrined in NZ domestic legislation?

Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption/ anti-privatisation’ campaigner
2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

(For more information on the Vince Siemer case – http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/ )
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July 20, 2013 11:35am
wat dabney

Harriet,

“So?”

So the war wasn’t fought to end slavery; which is the point in dispute. It was fought to preserve the union.

The fact that slavery was technically abolished was simply a by-product. If the South had been a bit smarter there would have been no civil war and the Federal government would not have passed the 13th Amendment.

So, quite important points really.

“Fuck off and stop being a wanker….I said slavery!”

The millions of Southern blacks continued to endure the same or worse conditions after the 13th Amendment was passed, and your message to them would have been “fuck off, technically you’re not slaves any more.”

You’re now in effect saying the war was fought to end the label of slavery, but not to end the condition of slavery itself.
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July 20, 2013 11:36am
hj

One of the things that influenced Lincoln was the accountu of Captain Riley of the Commerce which was wrecked off Somalia. The crew were taken as slaves and forced to march through the desert naked.
http://www.amazon.com/Skeletons-Zahara-True-Story-Survival/dp/0316159352

One thing about the civil war that people aren’t aware of is the number of slaves who bolted to freedom.

Livingstone had a lot to do with ending slavery. He wasn’t the person most people imagine but was a phenomena, devoid of fear and full of passion – poked the black ladies.
http://www.amazon.com/Into-Africa-Adventures-Stanley-Livingstone/dp/0767910745
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July 20, 2013 11:37am
wat dabney

See Auckland’s future under ‘Mayor Penny’

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/353862/detroit-goes-down-kevin-d-williamson
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July 20, 2013 11:39am
hj

phenonmenon
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July 20, 2013 11:40am
Reid

The civil war was fought over the banking cartel that wanted to establish a central bank. Heard of the greenback? Where do you think that came from? Educate yourself. Those who don’t understand history are doomed to repeat it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XNqQaSACtU
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July 20, 2013 11:42am
hj

wat dabney (2,809) Says:
July 20th, 2013 at 11:39 am
See Auckland’s future under ‘Mayor Penny’
……
so why is Houston broke?

Is it intelligent to build waste into a system or build lasting value… requiring planning, organisation versus a system based on short term profit.
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July 20, 2013 11:45am
Judith

Reid (13,760) Says:
July 20th, 2013 at 11:42 am

————————-

So what you are saying is Scarlet O’Hara and Rhett Butler’s marriage was ruined because of some bankers?

Sounds like a modern day scenario – nothing much has changed.
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July 20, 2013 11:47am
Kea

The “African” Americans who cry victim and demand special consideration, in the US, on the basis that whites owe them a favour, should be treated in a similar fashion to how Africans treat Africans in Africa. That should clear up any misunderstanding about how hard life is for them in the USA. We can start by showing them how their hero Nelson Mandela dealt with his opponents. It is all down hill from there…
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July 20, 2013 11:47am
kowtow

Ah ,the old Abe Lincoln was a friend of the blackman myth.Hollywood and government propaganda (education dept) have a lot to answer for.
Like many Americans at the time he didn’t believe they had a place in American society and he wanted them out.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n5p-4_Morgan.html
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July 20, 2013 11:49am
hj

So Mayor Penning’s anti corruption campaign focusses on the rule of law, whereby, parliament hadn’t set up the appropriate laws allowing spying on people plotting violence against innocent citizens and police (thankfully and in line with public sentiment) over stepped the mark…. and the judge should have sided with the almighty (faulty) law?
That brings the Mayor Penny’s loud claxon?

and Peter Dunne sees he is too close to National and needs some brownie points from – somewhere… oh! this’ll do it!?
that’s why little tobacco keeps mentioning it.
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July 20, 2013 11:53am
Harriet

“…So the war wasn’t fought to end slavery; which is the point in dispute. It was fought to preserve the union….”

“……The Proclamation did not compensate the owners, did not itself outlaw slavery, and did not make the ex-slaves (called freedmen) citizens. It made the eradication of slavery an explicit war goal, in addition to the goal of reuniting the Union.[3]….thus applying to 3.1 million of the 4 million slaves in the U.S. at the time……”

OK fuckwit.

3.1 milliom blacks are FREED from slavery…..by way of a WAR GOAL…..WHILE over 200,000 WHITES DIED while doing so.

Do you think that BLACKS at that TIME – WEREN’T FUCKEN GRATFUL FOR BEING FREED FROM SLAVERY?

Were the WHITE UNION soldiers who DIED – SLAVE OWNERS?

OR are you more concerned with what the UNENSLAVED BLACKS OF TODAY think about the NON SLAVE OWNING WHITES OF TODAY and want to make an UNRELATED CONNECTION?

Do you seriously fucken think that whites of TODAY should have any fucken guilt about what other people have done in the PAST – who HAPPEN to be WHITE?

FFS grow up!
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July 20, 2013 11:57am
Pauleastbay

@ Harriet
Who the fuck was the idiot that gave me a down tick for posting

Its like the gag reflex for some people Harriet, they see “Harriet’ and the mouse goes to down tick.

You’ll find its entirely personal as well
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July 20, 2013 11:57am
Judith

@ Harriet
Who the fuck was the idiot that gave me a down tick for posting

————————————————————
Perhaps it was representing all the unborn babies that thanks to abortion did not have to live life with dreadful abnormalities and health problems, or worse – be born to parents that didn’t want them, wouldn’t care for them, or even worse still, let them live a year or two with constant physical abuse only to suffer painful violent deaths.

Perhaps the tick downs are against you and in support of those babies that are better off not existing, because their existence would have been sheer hell.

But then again, it might just be as PEB says, it might just be personal
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July 20, 2013 12:02pm
Reid

So what you are saying is Scarlet O’Hara and Rhett Butler’s marriage was ruined because of some bankers?

Exactly Judith, that wasn’t a movie, it was a doco.
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July 20, 2013 12:03pm
wat dabney

Harriet,

Try to understand:

Slavery would have been allowed to continue. Lincoln himself made this very clear. There would have been no war solely to end slavery. This fact is not in dispute.

What Lincoln would not allow was for the Southern states to secede.

Thus, whilst the issue of slavery is intrinsic, the was was fought solely to preserve the union.

“Do you think that BLACKS at that TIME – WEREN’T FUCKEN GRATFUL FOR BEING FREED FROM SLAVERY?”

And don’t you think they were equally disappointed when they found out that nothing had really changed, or actually been made worse?

If the war was fought to end slavery, why didn’t they end slavery?
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July 20, 2013 12:10pm
Harriet

“……Perhaps it was representing all the unborn babies that thanks to abortion did not have to live life with dreadful abnormalities and health problems, or worse – be born to parents that didn’t want them, wouldn’t care for them, or even worse still, let them live a year or two with constant physical abuse only to suffer painful violent deaths.

Perhaps the tick down’s are against you and in support of those babies that are better off not existing, because their existence would have been sheer hell. ….’

Just what I’d expect from you Judith – anyone who is alive today and has something that doesn’t sit just quite right with you – is better off dead!

Go up to the children’s ward in the hospital and repeat that loudly so that the parents and the children’s doctors hear it!

Btw – Kids from foreign countries get flown to Australia to fix abnormalities – are they better than Kiwi kids Judith?

You should be fucken disgusted with yourself for saying that!
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July 20, 2013 12:16pm
wat dabney

“Slavery By Another Name”

The documentary of the book:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meaVhIC2Bu8

Harriet, see if you can spot some “BLACKS” looking “FUCKEN GRATFUL”…
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July 20, 2013 12:17pm
Reid

Thus, whilst the issue of slavery is intrinsic, the was was fought solely to preserve the union.

No, it wasn’t. It amazes me that some people even with the interweb which gives you all the resources you need, still wallow around in the manufactured de rigueur history that masquerades as ‘education.’ See my 11:42 for the root cause.
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July 20, 2013 12:19pm
wat dabney

Reid, it was a conspiracy by the Illuminati. We get it.
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July 20, 2013 12:31pm
Kea

The uncomfortable truth is blacks in America enjoy the best quality of life and have the most opportunity of any African people in the world. If you doubt that have a look at the state of things in Africa, where blacks have the worst standard of living in the world. That is what those US blacks would have if their black ancestors had not sold them to white traders.

Interesting fact, the first slave ship to the Americas was called Jesus of Lubeck. Slavery is condoned in the bible and it even has various rules and regulations around it. It was a ready made manual and moral justification.
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July 20, 2013 12:32pm
cha

I like how kowtow continues citing a website that describes David Irving as an intrepid battler for historical truth.

//
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July 20, 2013 12:49pm
Kea

More racism from Obama. This whole thing is a disgrace and has really turned me sour on black Americans, though the real blame rests with white liberals.

Barack Obama: Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago
Barack Obama has weighed into the racially-charged court case that has divided America by comparing himself to Trayvon Martin, the unarmed black teenager shot dead by George Zimmerman.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/10191910/Barack-Obama-Trayvon-Martin-could-have-been-me-35-years-ago.html
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July 20, 2013 12:56pm
Reid

Slavery is condoned in the bible and it even has various rules and regulations around it. It was a ready made manual and moral justification.

And yet for some inexplicable reason not a single Christian advocates such. Isn’t that peculiar. I wonder whose wrong: Kea or the billion or so Christians, many of whom are Africans?
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July 20, 2013 1:00pm
Kea

Reid, I am not talking about the works of man. I was referring to the perfect word of GOD.

Why did you attempt to change the subject ? Feeling a bit uncomfortable and foolish again are you ? You should if you have any decency at all. In fact if you are a decent person you would simple condemn the bible.

The bible clearly does condone slavery. Along with genocide, infanticide and rape.
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July 20, 2013 1:06pm
Kea

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!

What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don’t die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
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July 20, 2013 1:10pm
nasska

Shit o dear….the New Testament & the Old Testament state the same Kea. That wipes out the defence of the new making the old redundant.

The only chance of victory for the theists is the plea that things are being taken out of context. That hoary old chestnut will be getting a dust off & a pre spin now. 🙂
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July 20, 2013 1:22pm
Reid

Reid, I am not talking about the works of man. I was referring to the perfect word of GOD. The bible clearly does condone slavery. Along with genocide, infanticide and rape.

Kea, I’m merely pointing out that that is what YOU think. No Christian thinks what you think and this raises the legitimate question as to who is correct, a billion of we Christians, or you?

You can babble on with your out-of-context citations all you like, the Bible is a big book after all, but you must logically accept even if you don’t like it, that this is your own individual and unique interpretation because NONE of the interpretations you make is advocated by any Christian. This is a simple, plain as day FACT. Like I said, you might not like it but it’s a FACT which you can’t refute.

So why not just keep your idiotic and transparent hatred of all things Christian out of GD, since it does get rather tiresome, we all know what you think, who cares. You’re a fanatic, but why spew your fanaticism on this subject all over GD all the time. The only time I talk about Christianity on GD normally is to correct what IMHO is some misinterpretation of it someone has made, which I have attempted with you, but you’re not interested in listening, is why I won’t discuss details with you on this subject. But you’re becoming as annoying as philu was, on this subject, with your idiotic fanaticism which we all understand repeated time after time after time. So why not change the subject, and give the rest of us some respect. That’s why I try never to talk about it except to correct misinterpretation, because I have respect for those who wish to discuss other subjects. Why don’t you do the same?
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July 20, 2013 1:29pm
Fletch

Kea, a ‘slave’ in the Old Testament is more liked a hired hand and nothing to do with the sort of slavery we see in the Americas or New World Slavery. You can’t really use the same word and expect them to mean the same thing. Do some reading and study it for yourself.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qnoslave.html

http://christianthinktank.com/qnoslavent.html

http://medicolegal.tripod.com/catholicsvslavery.htm
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July 20, 2013 1:35pm
Kea

Kea, I’m merely pointing out that that is what YOU think. No Christian thinks what you think and this raises the legitimate question as to who is correct, a billion of we Christians, or you?

You can babble on with your out-of-context citations all you like

The insincere and twisted words of a moral and intellectual coward. It is not about what I think it is about the clear words of the bible. Tell us in what “context” slavery, rape, infanticide and genocide is ok ? This sort of comment is very revealing of Christian morality. You do not condemn slavery, you think it is ok in “context”. As an atheist I think it is not ok in any context.

You do not condemn the vile brutality of the bible you simply excuse it. You need to have a long hard look at yourself. And stop playing victim when confronted with the words of your disgusting filthy bible you gutless prick.
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July 20, 2013 1:42pm
Ryan Sproull

And the stones used to “stone to death” women who weren’t virgins on their wedding night were lightly perfumed fluffy Old Testament stones, not the stones you godless liberals use today!
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July 20, 2013 1:42pm
Kea

2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

In what “context” is it ok to tear little kids to pieces for giving a guy a hard time about being bald ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK7P7uZFf5o
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July 20, 2013 1:49pm
cha

lightly perfumed fluffy Old Testament stones

marvellous!
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July 20, 2013 1:49pm
nasska

Fletch

In your haste you may have overlooked:

….”since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)”…..

….”Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear…….”…. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Surely you don’t expect people with a reading age of 10+ not to understand the concepts of property & fear. Why would a “hired hand” be owned by or fear an employer?
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July 20, 2013 1:49pm
hj

The Republican party was formed as the anti-slavery successor to the Liberty and Free Soil Parties. It was the election of the presidential candidate of this party with its anti-slavery platform that precipitated the South’s initiation of force against federal troops and facilities — not a dispute over tariffs. Slavery was deeply involved in both the formation of the Republican party, which supplanted the Whigs due to this issue, its election of a President on its second try, and the Southern reaction to this election, which directly precipitated the Civil War.
However, unlike more radical abolitionists like Lysander Spooner, the Republican party platform insisted that the federal government had no legal power to end slavery in any of the original 13 states in which it still existed. In this way, though it opposed the extension of slavery, the Republican platform respected states rights. (From this it is wrong to conclude that anti-slavery “moderates” like Chase or Lincoln were any less opposed to slavery than radicals like Spooner; but only that they recognized constitutional limits on the federal power to abolish it within the original states — a view of the Constitution they shared in common with such radical abolitionists as Garrison and Phillips.) In this sense, because Republicans pledged to respect the “states rights” of the South, the South had no cause to secede on that basis.
http://www.volokh.com/2013/07/18/more-on-slavery-the-civil-war-and-libertarians/

a bit of libertarian revisionism going on.
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July 20, 2013 1:50pm
Reid

You do not condemn the vile brutality of the bible you simply excuse it.

I don’t need to, philu, because I told you I’m not discussing details with you because there is no point in engaging with a fanatic. I merely point out that those who profess it as truth don’t take the same interpretation from it as you do, so who is more likely to be correct, the billion or so of us, or you? What about that don’t you understand, phil?
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July 20, 2013 1:52pm
Kea

So why not change the subject, and give the rest of us some respect.

He demands “respect” for his violent evil cult ! Incredible arrogance. Respect for a bible that demands non-virgin brides be stoned to death on their dads doorstep, naughty children be killed by their parents, rape, slavery, genocide and infanticide. He demand decent people not only tolerate this filth but that they “respect” it. Fuck you !
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July 20, 2013 1:54pm
Kea

Reid, how about you step up, man up, and answer the question ? I am not responsible for the words of your bible. I, and what I think, are not the issue. The issue is the bible and the actions of Christians through out the ages.

1. In what “context” are those things acceptable ?

2. Do you condemn those things demanded by God, or not ?
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July 20, 2013 1:58pm
nickb

The Nation – Rachel Smalley this morning. Had to turn it off. She was just being a useless interviewer who didn’t want to hear what the Minister was saying and was just channeling all the outraged lefty trolls that we hear on Kiwiblog. Maybe she is Yoza.

Rachel Smalley is undoubtedly the worst TV host in NZ at the moment, and that is saying something with the likes of John “the Alliance” Campbell in our midst. Her political knowledge and lines of questioning were such you could be forgiven for thinking she had flunked out after a year of a Waikato University pol sci degree. Which might not be too far from the truth.
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July 20, 2013 2:08pm
Reid

In the (probably vain) hope this will deflect phil’s fanaticism, here’s something entertaining for those who prefer GD to remain both a debate and a general discussion, rather than a one-sided lecture from a fanatical narcissistic fantasist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-5pPEq7O4k
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July 20, 2013 2:13pm
kowtow

r smalley ,the other morning she was reporting the England and Wales abomination of homo marriage having been given the Royal Assent…..(terrible what HM’s Govt forces her to do) Says the blond with a huge grin ” and now Scotland and Northern Ireland need to follow” or words to that effect.

Smalley should be sacked. But of course the homo / equality agenda is very much a media project so any editorialising along the party line is quite alright.
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July 20, 2013 2:14pm
kowtow

cha and Abe Lincoln

Feel free to cite any historical inaccuracies in that post.
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July 20, 2013 2:17pm
Kea

Reid, you have been shown up as a moral and intellectual coward by any right minded person. Attacking me will not deflect attention from your filthy cult and your lack of common decency.

Enjoy your day 🙂
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July 20, 2013 2:19pm
Fletch

nasska, because “fear” doesn’t necessarily mean to be scared of. For instance, the Bible tells us to “fear the Lord your God”. Now, that doesn’t mean to be scared of, or to be afraid. It can mean a deep respect. For instance, if you were in audience before a powerful king you’d be damn sure to be respectful and you might be quite nervous.

I’m talking about the 4th definition at Dictionary.com –

4.
reverential awe, especially toward God: the fear of God. Synonyms: awe, respect, reverence, veneration.

It could even mean the way you treat the big boss of your company. You might not be scared of him, per se, but you would show him great respect.
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July 20, 2013 2:29pm
bereal

Now here we have a lady who in the old days would be referred to as “a real piece of work.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8930232/Lawyer-spoke-in-code-to-murderer-Reid

i doubt that Emma Agnew (murder victim of Reid) would agree with the lovely and charming Davina Murray
that Reid was the ‘best kisser’ she had ever met.

Would ‘Davina’ Murray have anything to do with Valerie Regina Murray, co director with bankrupt
disgraced ex lawyer Barry Hart in certain companies now struck off the register ?

Is one of them, Valerie or Davina also a bankrupt ?
Is one of them listed in the warning list at Shark Patrol ?
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July 20, 2013 2:30pm
Fairfacts Media

Interesting piece on why the angelic Trayvon Martin was buying Skittles and a soft drink that night.
Say Robotussin everyone!
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/07/poor-mans-pcp.html
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July 20, 2013 2:34pm
Reid

But of course the homo / equality agenda is very much a media project so any editorialising along the party line is quite alright.

Yes indeed it is but you’d think the managers who ultimately dictate the editorial policy would get a clue that more money would be made if they stopped doing it, wouldn’t you. But no, they keep doing it and it keeps getting worse in terms of becoming more and more obvious to the sheeple as each year passes. And consequently the ratings keep declining as more and more sheeple turn to the substantive news sources that don’t do it, aka the alternative media on the web.

I stopped watching NZ TV content years ago it’s such crap and it surprises me how many people are now saying exactly that. Like I say, you’d think the commercial people would get a clue, wouldn’t you. You’d have to be brain-dead not to see it, wouldn’t you.

Perhaps there’s another reason why they keep doing it. But that couldn’t be, could it.
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July 20, 2013 2:36pm
bereal

We know that Reid was found with a packet of Marlboros and a lighter in his jumpsuit
and a ihone in his shoe, butt what was the ‘plastic article’ found up his arse ?
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July 20, 2013 2:37pm
nasska

Fletch

Okay, the “reverential awe” explanation is plausible. Now have a go at the ”since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)” text.
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July 20, 2013 2:37pm
Harriet

Slavery described in the Old Testament was quite different from the kind of slavery we think of today.

According to Old Testament law, anyone caught selling another person into slavery was to be executed:”He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.” (Exodus 21:16) So, slavery during Old Testament times was not what we recognize as slavery, such as that practiced in the 17th century Americas. In ancient Israel, people who could not provide for themselves or their families sold them into slavery so they would not die of starvation or exposure. In this way, a person would receive food and housing in exchange for labor.although there are rules about slavery in the Bible, those rules exist to protect the slave. Injuring or killing slaves was punishable up to death. Hebrews were commanded not to make their slave work on the Sabbath, slander a slave, have sex with another man’s slave, or return an escaped slave. A Hebrew was not to enslave his fellow countryman, even if he owed him money, but was to have him work as a hired worker, and he was to be released in years or in the year of jubilee whichever came first.the slave owner was encouraged to “pamper his slave”.

The condemnation of slavery is one of those nonbiblical doctrines that Catholics have developed through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit over the centuries (and that Sola Scriptura Christians criticize us about).

+ Sixty years before Columbus “discovered” the New World, Pope Eugene IV condemned the enslavement of peoples in the newly colonized Canary Islands.
+ In 1462, Pius II declared slavery to be “a great crime” (magnum scelus). Note that this was 30 years before Columbus “discovered” America.
+ In 1537, Paul III forbade the enslavement of the Indians
+ Urban VIII forbade it in 1639
+ Benedict XIV forbade it in 1741
+ Pius VII demanded of the Congress of Vienna, in 1815, the suppression of the slave trade
+ Gregory XVI condemned it in 1839
+ In the Bull of Canonization of the Jesuit Peter Claver, one of the most illustrious adversaries of slavery, Pius IX branded the “supreme villainy” (summum nefas) of the slave traders.
+ Leo XIII, in 1888, addressed a letter to the Brazilian bishops, exhorting them to banish from their country the remnants of slavery — a letter to which the bishops responded with their most energetic efforts, and some generous slave-owners by freeing their slaves in a body, as in the first ages of the Church.
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July 20, 2013 2:48pm
nickb

Interesting piece on why the angelic Trayvon Martin was buying Skittles and a soft drink that night.
Say Robotussin everyone!
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/07/poor-mans-pcp.html

I have seen this reported in quite a few places, very interesting. But predictably ignored by the MSM who wanted to incite racial hatred rather than report facts.

I was interested to see we have more presidential interfering in the course of justice today, with Obama grandiloquently proclaiming he “could have been Trayvon”.

That is amazing on many levels.
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July 20, 2013 2:48pm
Yvette

Kea – 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Old Testament, I gather Kea, but 2.24 of what book, please?
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July 20, 2013 2:49pm
Reid

what was the ‘plastic article’ found up his arse ?

I’m guessing it was joy balls Davina gave him to keep him amused until he got a conjugal visit from Davina. I may be wrong but from the look of her I’m guessing he’s the girl in that relationship.
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July 20, 2013 2:52pm
Kea

nasska, it amuses me that these people claim the moral high ground yet refuse to condemn the terrible things demanded by god in the bible.

The defense that christians don’t actually do those things fails for a number of reasons:

1. They have indeed done those things.

2. They are ignoring the biblical demands of god, while claiming moral authority from the bible.

3. They refuse to condemn the barbaric demands of god and consider things like gang rape, slavery and torture to be ok in themselves and not intrinsically wrong, because the “context” is what maters.

They are never able to answer this and instead try and create distractions and launch into personal attacks. They lack honesty and integrity, which is understandable given they are living a lie. In order to maintain their cult they must not only lie to others but also to themselves. Which is why they get so hysterical and angry when confronted with facts.
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July 20, 2013 2:57pm
Harriet

“……In order to maintain their cult they must not only lie to others but also to themselves. Which is why they get so hysterical and angry when confronted with facts…..”

No. We are not gay.
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July 20, 2013 3:00pm
Kea

Yvette, yes Old Testament. The one that Jesus said he had come to enforce. The one that is valid today as when it was written. The only thing that the New Testament removed was demands for blood sacrifice, but it did introduce eternal torture in hell to make up for it.

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17 NAB)

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

“Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.” (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 “Whoever curses father or mother shall die” (Mark 7:10 NAB)

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)
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July 20, 2013 3:07pm
Fletch

“Michigan judge halts Detroit bankruptcy because it dishonors Obama”

Awwwww..

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/07/19/michigan-judge-halts-detroit-bankruptcy-because-it-dishonors-obama/
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July 20, 2013 3:08pm
nasska

Kea

Generally I don’t consider a person’s religious beliefs to be any business of mine….indeed, outside of these & a couple of other blog forums, I would be hard pressed to remember the last theological discussion I got involved in.

Regrettably there are commenters on this blog who seem unable to eat breakfast without their Coco Pops telling them that they must hijack the threads & spread God’s word & their morals.

To be fair, Reid although a believer, normally doesn’t push his religious views…..there’s a twelve month open season on the rest of the nutters. 🙂
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July 20, 2013 3:10pm
Kea

nasska , I do not debate religion outside of KB either. I have friends who are deeply religious and it causes no issues.

That said, I think society needs to reconsider its tolerance of religion. It is not harmless and it is not personal. It is the cause of much of the worlds war, misery and despair. It results in countless deaths and suffering to this day and it is little wonder when you delve into the dark blood soaked bible. We would not tolerate or “respect” this sort of filth in any other context and I question if we should tolerate it at all. If I wrote a book demanding the things demanded in the bible it would be banned and I would be labeled as a depraved sicko. Yet christians worship this filth. Why should we accept this ?
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July 20, 2013 3:23pm

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