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July 1, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 1 July 2013

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Pauleastbay

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10893973

To all the trendy lefties that thought it was a brilliant idea that an Islamist ruler take over Eygpt.

How many people will die violent deaths?
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July 1, 2013 8:04am
Chuck Bird

There will be more of this thanks to Mr Key. I wonder what Mr Glen has to say about this. Homosexuals should not adopt children!!!

NZ aids arrest of man who bought baby for abuse
7:15 AM Monday Jul 1, 2013

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10893949
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July 1, 2013 8:09am
liarbors a joke

” Breaking news…Mandela dead “…nah, just kidding..
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July 1, 2013 8:09am
flipper

A perceptive correspondent sent me an email last evening containing the following, with which I agree 🙂 –

” …… And apropos that, Michael Reed is not sitting in London twiddling his thumbs. I hear from others in the profession that the TV3 expose, and the NZ Herald publication of Judith Collins instructions to Fisher, are just the first two of many bad news episodes for the Crown and taxpayers.

” It is time for John Key to do an “Auckland rail loop” on Collins and follow Rob Muldoon’s intervention in the Thomas case. National really does not want this debilitating (in terms of Ministerial fairness and the rule of law) Bain issue running into election year – especially when the polls (NZ Herald, TV3 and Fairfax) show that 70% + say David Bain should be compensated immediately.

” But the problem the Government now faces is trust. It wants the Judicial Review withdrawn. But after Judith Collins’ outrageous actions, who would now trust the Government on this issue?

” Perhaps, in the end, Beehive 9th floor sense will prevail. “
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July 1, 2013 8:14am
peterwn

Flipper – Re Bain – if Cabinet said ‘no’ tomorrow, that is the end of the matter. This sort of thing is at Cabinet’s whim. There is no process or procedure laid down by law that has to be followed. Michael Reed after taking legal action which has put the the compensation in process, is now demanding that Judith Collins / John Key act on the compensation claim immediately. In so doing michael Reed QC has handed David Bain’s backside to Judith Collins on a plate if she chooses to accept it.

I think the crudest way of putting things – is there any votes for Nationa (or Labour for that matter) in paying David Bain compensation – if not, why bother?

Oh yes – the full bladder.
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July 1, 2013 8:34am
Scott Chris

Homosexuals should not adopt children!!!

If your (unfounded) contention is that gays are more likely to be paedophiles, then presumably you’d be in favour of all men being banned from adopting children too.
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July 1, 2013 8:40am
liarbors a joke

You only say that Scottchris because you are a confirmed homosexual…just balancing your argument.
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July 1, 2013 8:44am
Judith

flipper (1,797) Says:
July 1st, 2013 at 8:14 am
————————————

I agree, except I think such a move from John Key is overdue.
Collins has been influenced by people she should have known better than to trust in.

Her behaviour and reliance on Fisher is inexcusable, and not acceptable for a person in her position.

Whilst I admit I am no fan of John Key, Collins behaviour is reflecting poorly on his administration and will cost him votes.

Whether the majority of his voters support or don’t support the payment of compensation to David Bain is immaterial, as are the desires a deranged group who use unscrupulous methods to present false information on the case.

John Key must be seen to be fair and operate in an appropriate manner.
He must pay compensation, he has no choice – all the required standards have been met.
The longer he avoids the matter, the more time for scrutiny by others which will produce evidence that will embarrass the government further.

For example, how is it that a group like Counterspin has been able to source the official fingerprints of David Bain taken at arrest and present them on their website as the fingerprints found on the gun. There is only one way for that to have happened – collusion with someone in the police.

If we learn nothing else from this tragedy it is that there is an urgent need for a commission, such as that recommended by the Law Commission over a decade ago. Compensation issues should never be placed in the realm of politics – justice should never be allowed to be influenced in such a manner.
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July 1, 2013 8:45am
hj

Understanding Nationals roading (and housing) policies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAHU1zq0WH4
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July 1, 2013 8:48am
Judith

Scott Chris (4,994) Says:
July 1st, 2013 at 8:40 am
Homosexuals should not adopt children!!!

If your (unfounded) contention is that gays are more likely to be paedophiles, then presumably you’d be in favour of all men being banned from adopting children too.

————————————————-

Good point Scott. It is a very big leap to make to presume that all homosexuals are pedophiles. Pedophilia is a very different thing to homosexuality – for a start many pedophiles have successful and fruitful marriages, many of the victims of pedophiles are the opposite sex and so on. The two just do not equate.
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July 1, 2013 8:49am
flipper

Peterwn…
Do you really believe that?
You know that is what the Crown law fools would like to have everyone believe. But it isn’t so, and you know that.
There is no legislation, simply administrative fiat which is reviewable all the way to the SC, is it not?. To end the matter, as you suggest, would require much, much more than a Cabinet “NO”.

Giving silly Collins someone’s arse? Reed is not that silly, nor is his team, including Joseph, dumb as you suggest. Clearly Joseph, with respect a better judge that you or I, is not backing the JR for ” kicks.”

Binnie’s description of Collins was kind, but accurate, and in all the emerging circumstances likely to result in her arse being on the block. The Fisher piece on Saturday exposes the disgraceful depth to which she plummeted. Take another peek, and work out what really will happen.
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July 1, 2013 8:53am
Chuck Bird

If your (unfounded) contention is that gays are more likely to be paedophiles, then presumably you’d be in favour of all men being banned from adopting children too.

@Scott Chris

Children should only be adopting by married couples except for a relation. An example being an aunt or uncle where the parents die. You claim my contention is unfounded. It seems many libertarians do not understand the meaning of disproportionate. Homosexuals make up a very small albeit vocal proportion of the population.
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July 1, 2013 8:56am
graham

Wow. Apparently the “targeting of Dunne” was “payback” against an MP who had voiced concerns about the power of the GCSB and a way of damaging a journalist who had embarrassed the GCSB. In other words, the inquiry was a revenge-driven attack run by the GCSB.

Well, maybe. No proof, but serious questions must be asked, apparently. 🙂

http://yournz.org/2013/07/01/did-the-gcsb-drive-henrys-investigation/
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July 1, 2013 8:56am
Chuck Bird

@flipper

Firstly, if all the evidence was presented to the jury he would have likely been found guilty. Secondly, Binnie was experienced in corporate law not criminal law. He was not qualified for the job as was demonstrated in his interview of David.
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July 1, 2013 9:02am
Scott Chris

You only say that Scottchris because you are a confirmed homosexual…

For the record, I’m exclusively heterosexual.

But if you’re looking for a date, why not try Harriet. He’s a repressed homosexual like you.
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July 1, 2013 9:05am
flipper

Judith…
What you say is true.
The issue of Collins v Mr Bain crosses all political divides. Take Maori, for example. There are not likely to be too many who side with Collins, the Molesworth Street Cowboys and Crown Law. Moreover, the legal profession well knows Collins’ friend Fisher. And the profession knows of all his past actions and prejudices. And people hold up that man as being suitable to review Binnie. No wonder the ICofJ has entered the issue…on top of five PC Law Lords and Binnie himself.

Tax lawyers may be cunning. But they can also be too clever for the good of their clients. 🙂
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July 1, 2013 9:08am
Pete George

How far should an inquiry go, and what authorisation should be required, when getting communications data of a journalist under investigation?

So far we know that the David Henry inquiry:
– obtained Peter Dunne’s email data
– asked for but was not given emails from Andrea Vance to Dunne
– obtained Dunne’s and Vance’s swipecard data from Parliamentary Services
– obtained Dunne’s and Vance’s landline data from Parliamentary Services
– obtained Dunne’s cellphone data from Parliamentary Services
– analysed Dunne-Vance cellphone data

We also know that Winston Peters was used to pressure Henry and/or Dunne. Peters claimed that evidence of the leak was in the phone data.

Was more spy data accessed than has been made known? It was revealed just last week that the swipe card data had been accessed.

Pushing and possibly exceeding boundaries (John Key believs boundaries were exceeded) on data gathering doesn’t seem to be the methods that would be expected of respected public servant like Henry.

Ironically this is all a result of the GCSB pushing boundaries getting spy data on New Zealand citizens.

Did Henry access Andrea Vance’s cellphone records?

As a result a culprit has been implicated and a journalist has been smeared with no direct supporting evidence and despite strong denials.
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July 1, 2013 9:09am
flipper

But Chuck, all the “evidence” was presented – twice.

The first time, the PC found it was a load of rubbish, so to speak.
The second time the Jury said “no thanks”.

The matters not presented, and since invented by the CS and JFRB spinners, is fiction, that the Crown could have put to Binnie. But even the Crown found that a step too far, a blow too low …. and a petard that they did not need when faced with all their own lies and distortions.

Sorry Chuck. That bird will never fly.
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July 1, 2013 9:15am
Kea

To all the trendy lefties that thought it was a brilliant idea that an Islamist ruler take over Eygpt.

How many people will die violent deaths?

Pauleastbay , they can use the Jets that Obama just sent them, to crush the uprising against the radical Muslim Brotherhood, that Obama helped install.
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July 1, 2013 9:20am
Longknives

“The second time the Jury said “no thanks”.”

Would that be the same jury that were celebrating with you guys at the ‘After Party’ Flipper??
Dodgier than a Sonny Bill ‘title fight’….
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July 1, 2013 9:21am
nasska

Chuck Bird

The drivers behind the recent spate of gay friendly legislation passed recently are gay but not necessarily men. Many children who will now be adopted are the kids of one of the partners of a formalised lesbian relationship.

Everyone has heart palpitations at the thought of a couple of dirty old homos adopting some fresh meat but NZ’s vetting procedures for adoption coupled with the fact that there are only about fifty “open” adoptions throughout the entire country each year should put things into perspective.
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July 1, 2013 9:22am
Pete George

Major causes of cancer are asbestos, smoking – and alcohol.

Otago University public health professor Tony Blakely said alcohol “absolutely” contributed to cancer rates.

Excessive drinking significantly increased the risk of developing cancer, he said, alongside genetics and an unhealthy lifestyle.

Christchurch Professor Doug Sellman, of the National Addiction Centre, said that 25 per cent of alcohol-related deaths “are actually cancer deaths.

“The ethanol in alcohol is a group one carcinogen, like asbestos,” he said.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/8861658/Ethanol-akin-to-asbestos-in-cancer-stakes

The difference is that while abstinence of asbestos and smoking are recommended moderate drinking of alcohol is still seen as an acceptable risk.
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July 1, 2013 9:23am
graham

“Did Henry access Andrea Vance’s cellphone records?”

That’s a fairly strong accusation there, Pete, I do hope you have some solid data to back it up. Because, I would imagine that Andrea Vance’s cellphone is supplied and/or paid for by her employer, Fairfax Media. Not by Parliament.

So you seem to be implying that David Henry either accessed what was, to all intents and purposes, a private cellphone (certainly not under Parliament’s jurisdiction), or leant on Fairfax to supply the information. As I suspect they’d be organising ice-skating lessons in hell before Fairfax would accede to a request like that, the implication seems to be that David Henry accessed the records of a (effectively private) cellphone.

** EDIT: Or am I wrong, and Parliament do in fact provide cellphones to journalists? I doubt this very much, but freely admit I don’t know for sure. **
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July 1, 2013 9:23am
Chuck Bird

So you believe David’s story about the goat like it appears Binnie did?

Binnie was not qualified for the job.
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July 1, 2013 9:25am
Chuck Bird

@Scott Chris

Typical libertarian tactic. When the facts do not agree with your ideology start personal attacks.
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July 1, 2013 9:27am
Pete George

I’m not making an accusation, I’m asking a question. In light of what was included in Henry’s report and that it has subsequently become known (that Henry didn’t detail obtaining swipe card data) I think it’s fair to ask exactly what data Henry obtained.

To focus so much on Dunne from so early in an investigation that ignored many other possibilities raises valid questions about whether more was known than has been made public.

And if no more was known why did Henry target Dunne and implicate Dunne with no direct evidence?

And another important question – Did the GCSB drive Henry’s investigation?
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July 1, 2013 9:30am
Judith

Chuck Bird (3,581) Says:
July 1st, 2013 at 9:25 am
So you believe David’s story about the goat like it appears Binnie did?

————————————
What was David’s story about the goat Chuck?

You see, Judge Binnie had David’s comments regarding that incident in front of him, from which he asked questions of David. All you have seen are David’s response to those questions, however, I do not believe you have ever actually ‘seen’ or heard exactly what the incident was involving the goat.

So, please do tell us – what was the ‘incident’ or ‘story’ regarding the goat Chuck?
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July 1, 2013 9:31am
Longknives

“Christchurch Professor Doug Sellman, of the National Addiction Centre, said that 25 per cent of alcohol-related deaths “are actually cancer deaths.”

Pete- Would that Doug Sellman be the same wowser who is desperately trying to take away my right to having a cold beer at the end of working a 60 hour week? That guy is a fucking joke…
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July 1, 2013 9:34am
Chuck Bird

@Judith

I do not care what you believe. I read the interview and quoted from it in the past. I cannot be bothered looking it it just for your benefit. The fact is that David will not get compo and that is the reason for the desperation.
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July 1, 2013 9:43am
dime

Is it fair to say 90% of us agree that:

A) Dunne is done
B) no one gives a fuck about the inquiry or who did what or whatever spin PG is trying to put on it.

To channel Clarke “I think new zealand is sick of hearing about it, he cant be trusted. move on”
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July 1, 2013 9:50am
Longknives

Speaking of New Zealand boxing- (Though that preening showpony Sonny Bill Williams isn’t really a ‘Boxer’)
Do we really need another David Tua comeback? Tua achieved some amazing things over a decade ago when he knocked out some big names and became a legitimate World Title contender.
But Father Time and Burger King catch up with us all David…
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July 1, 2013 9:50am
flipper

Ahhhhhh.
The knifeman . The poor fool.

To directly answer your questions (actual and implied):
I do not know Mr Bain
I do not know Mr Karam
I do not know Mr Reed
I have never net them, socially or formally.
I have never, directly or indirectly, corresponded or spoken to any of them.
I do not know any member of either jury.
I have never met any member of either jury.
I did not celebrate the jury’s finding in the only proper trial conducted
I did not attend any post trial jury party
I have not been to Dunedin or Christchurch for about 10 years.
Any more questions?

BUT

I have an aversion to bullshit, lies, obfuscation and wasting taxpayers monies, whether it be by Cown Law, over hyped/paid Crown Prosecutors, the Gang in blue, and the Molesworth Street Cowboys.

And I believe that when investigators and prosecutors stuff up they should have the intestinal fortitude to admit their faults. They need to accept that they are not judges or juries. They need to accept that they have a responsibility to present all the evidence fairly, to withhold nothing, and not exclude anything that may adversely impact their position.
But in NZ 2013 that would be too much to hope, would it not?
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July 1, 2013 9:53am
graham

dime:

Agree with (A) but not with (B). I would like to know who the hell actually leaked. When somebody breaks trust and security, it matters like hell. ESPECIALLY if that somebody is highly placed in Government.

THAT is the main question, which has not been answered, and – despite all the spin and attempted deflections from Pete – still matters.

Tied in to (B) is the question of exactly what Dunne’s role in all this was. He “claims” he didn’t leak. But yet he resigned. Maybe he speaks the truth with some VERY carefully worded statements. Yet he has obviously played a major part in this saga in some way, to such a degree that he had to resign, and yet is – what? Embarrassed? Ashamed? Guilt-ridden?

WHO LEAKED, AND WHAT HAS DUNNE DONE?
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July 1, 2013 10:00am
Longknives

“I have an aversion to bullshit, lies, obfuscation and wasting taxpayers monies”

Hah- You obviously haven’t met David yet then!!
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July 1, 2013 10:01am
Judith

Chuck Bird (3,582) Says:
July 1st, 2013 at 9:43 am
——————————–

So in other words, you don’t actually know the full story regarding the goat. Why didn’t you just say so?

I do wonder though, how without being fully informed about the matter, you can make a judgement on it.

When I first became interested in the case, I sought to read every available document about it. As a social scientist and a researcher I had access to information that wasn’t necessarily easily accessible to the general public. I made very sure I was as informed as I could be before I started supporting or condemning someone.

It appears to me supporters of JFRB have not bothered to read anything but a minor amount of that information. I find that disturbing, considering they are prepared to go to the lengths they do to discredit both David Bain and Joe Karam, and of course, now Justice Binnie.

I have never met David Bain, neither he nor Joe Karam would know me if they fell over me in the street. But that has not stopped me from being reasonably well informed on this case – something I think anyone who wishes to publicly declare what the verdict should be has a moral obligation to do – rather than spouting off in ignorance or worse still being dishonest and misrepresenting the facts in order to put forward their argument or as some put it – to exercise their ‘witch sniffing skills’.
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July 1, 2013 10:15am
Pete George

I think A) is largely irrelevant in this.

I think it would be good to know who leaked to Vance. Despite going to great lengths to try pin it on Dunne they couldn’t. And they didn’t investigate some other obvious possibilities.

I think it’s also important to clarify what data of parliamentary journalists should be able to be used in an inquiry, and if so in what circumstances it should be allowed.

I think it’s also important as to who used Winston Peters, and if it was for coercion in the inquiry or political.

I have serious concerns about GCSB involvement in the investigation. They are potential suspects in:
– who leaked the Kitteridge report
– pressuring Henry in his investigation to test boundaries of data gathering (the same thing that got GCSB into the current mess)
– leaking to Peters

I don’t think we should be rushing through legislation to formalise GCSB powers without much more scrutiny and without demanding much better oversight.
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July 1, 2013 10:16am
Colville

Can you Bain freaks please take it elsewhere? isnt there a thread for the rehashing of this tired BS?

Please 🙂
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July 1, 2013 10:20am
peterwn

Flipper – Cabinet inaction in the absence of any legislative requirement is not judicially reviewable, otherwise anyone with an axe to grind on any topic can demand action from a Minister and if it is refused, go to court. The Royal prerogative of mercy is not reviewable by the courts and the compensation claim is of similar ilk.

Judith – Agreed John Key should act immediately. He should tell Judith Collins to forget all about the compensation issue and get on with life. Michael reed wants immediate action and John Key can deliver on this. Cabinet has better things to do with its time.

In any case the recent little putch was a crude blatant attempt to get directly at John Key – and he has not bitten.
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July 1, 2013 10:20am
Colville

Longknives.

The black and white differences in the way that parker dispatched Botha and the way SBW survived the bout by the skin of his teeth showed the vast gulf in skills. i said at the time that SBW would not box again and I still believe it.

Tua needs the money and he has a few years left in him so why not? Its not as tho he has career to fall back on. But fighting a 2.03 tall dude wont be easy for him. I am pretty sure he cant bring a step ladder into the ring 🙂
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July 1, 2013 10:26am
Longknives

Colville-
Agree 110% re Sonny Bill Showpony- He looked fucking woeful against the South African ‘White Blubbero’..
He is probably too scared to fight again- I’d still love to see him get knocked cold though!
* Remember that he was talking himself up as the ‘New Ali’ and ‘The greatest cross-code athlete ever’ etc etc So he fully deserves every bit of scorn he gets from the boxing community..

Yeah and you are right about Tua also- probably does need the money. A bit sad though as he will be limited to fighting nobodies in Hamilton and South Auckland. A long,long way away from Caesar’s Palace…
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July 1, 2013 10:35am
dime

“Do we really need another David Tua comeback?” – wtf? like David trying to make some money is a hindrance to your life. he is only 40. i hope he has a few fights, retires with some money and lives happily ever after.

he may even knock a few people out on the way. good on him i say
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July 1, 2013 10:38am
wikiriwhis business

Factoid: This is why the world is going to hell

Max Keiser Report
Huge corporations paid less than nothing, too.
Pepco Holdings (-57.6% tax rate)
General Electric (-45.3%)
DuPont (-3.4%)
Verizon (-2.9%)
Boeing (-1.8%)
Honeywell (-0.7%)
(Source: Citizens for Tax Justice) in a Nut shell you are mugs paying tax and letting the dodgers free.
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July 1, 2013 10:42am
Colville

If Tua gets propperly fit and the word is that he is looking trim then he will be a dangerous man.
Problem for him is that he is know as a big puncher and will struggle I believe to get fights as on his day he could knock pretty much anyone out and pairing him against a skillfill tall dude (Parker) would be a yawnfest of jab jab jab and run away.
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July 1, 2013 10:43am
Longknives

Dime- I’m not knocking David Tua but he didn’t do his legacy any favours waddling around and getting beaten by journeyman Barrett (the sort of guy that wouldn’t have lasted two rounds against a young Tua)
His skills have simply eroded. (Happens to all of us once we hit out late 30s!)
I just can’t see any George Foreman fairytales for this guy- Surely he could make a living training, working with youth etc?
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July 1, 2013 10:44am
Redbaiter

“Factoid: This is why the world is going to hell”

It isn’t actually.

Do you really think the world will be saved by taxing corporations at a greater rate?

That’s just communist bullshit.

Taxes paid by corporations are only an add on cost to whatever product they market. So in the end, coprorations pay more taxes, their product costs more, and that means the consumer pays.

The world is going to hell because of the cost of overbearing over reaching big government looting every one of us of our earned income.

The solution is not to increase tax, it is to reduce the size and reach of government.

In effect, company tax should be zero. It is just a smoke and mirrors farce to appease the whining of brain fucked commies who cannot do basic maths.
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July 1, 2013 10:50am
Longknives

“he is know as a big puncher and will struggle I believe to get fights as on his day he could knock pretty much anyone out”

Now you are dreaming- The Klitschko brothers are around 6’8 and both far more skilful than Tua. They also have equally impressive knock-out records (Lennox reckoned Vitali hit as hard as anyone he ever fought)
I was a fan of Tua in his day but to claim that at 40 he could have a hope against either of the Klitschkos is living in Disneyland.
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July 1, 2013 10:51am
Colville

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8862299/Jailed-for-beating-12-year-old

Thuggery runs in the blood huh?
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July 1, 2013 10:52am
dime

Longknives – let me put it this way.

You have the chance to make a few million, quickly, by doing something you have done for years. sure youre not as good as you once were but the money is there.

or, you can become a teacher and teach what youre good at for fuck all money.

youd choose the teaching gig eh?
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July 1, 2013 10:55am
wf

For goodness sake! Everyone who has a swipe card to get in to work knows that their activities will or can be monitored by the security people. And there are cameras at key entrances too. Spying? I don’t think so.

My feeling is that Peter Dunne resigned as a minister because he was angry at actions involving him or which offended against deeply held principles swhatever they may be.

Revenge is a dish best served cold maybe he’s waiting for the heat to disperse.
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July 1, 2013 10:56am
Colville

Longknives.
The point being that it only takes one second of inattention or a miss step and Tua has the punching power to finish things.
Either Klitschko would would stay 2 meters away from him and batter him with a jab. Yawn.
No up and commer will go near Tua its a risk with nothing to gain.
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July 1, 2013 10:59am
liarbors a joke

come on scottchris..Ive been around here long enough to remember you confirming you bat for the other side..maybe you have switched back?
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July 1, 2013 11:03am
wikiriwhis business

Right now, as you sit back to watch your Sunday evening television shows, people are fighting for their freedom, rights and prosperity all over the world. Worldwide revolutions, uprisings and protests are raging! In Brazil, Turkey, Egypt, Bulgaria, Canada and even Chicago people have taken to the streets.

You can catch all this on the Revolution News Facebook Page, here: http://www.facebook.com/RevNews

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=500953256648982&set=a.242514035826240.59090.115534755190836&type=1&theater
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July 1, 2013 11:04am
Nostalgia-NZ

” …… And apropos that, Michael Reed is not sitting in London twiddling his thumbs. I hear from others in the profession that the TV3 expose, and the NZ Herald publication of Judith Collins instructions to Fisher, are just the first two of many bad news episodes for the Crown and taxpayers.

” It is time for John Key to do an “Auckland rail loop” on Collins and follow Rob Muldoon’s intervention in the Thomas case. National really does not want this debilitating (in terms of Ministerial fairness and the rule of law) Bain issue running into election year – especially when the polls (NZ Herald, TV3 and Fairfax) show that 70% + say David Bain should be compensated immediately.

” But the problem the Government now faces is trust. It wants the Judicial Review withdrawn. But after Judith Collins’ outrageous actions, who would now trust the Government on this issue?’

Not hard to read is it Flipper. Collins basically threatened DB that he mightn’t like what was in the report as a reason not to release it. After which we find it recommends compensation, hardly not something to like for DB. Now the pressure to drop the JR and put himself back in the hands of the ‘nuetral’ Minister in some other scheme which she will dream up, manipulate, and exclude him from.

I note that one or 2 lawyers, invested in David’s ‘guilt’ make predictions of where the end of the road is quickly approaching. Some Lawyers, not all fortunately, look at the Law as to it’s limitations while others look to it for remedy. Clearly Reed is one who embraces the Law as the opportunity to make things right. Judicial Review is only part of the relief he could be considering, however from what has already been put in the papers, along with the personnel involved, it is a formidable hurdle for Collins to assume she wields powers that deny natural justice and due process.

You will also note the ‘rush’ for some to think the gsr evidence is somehow muted because of a photo of a fingerprint in the papers. If life were so simple that the disaffected could merely read a newspaper article and all their problems were over, their concerns about investment in bigotry, prejudice and persecution would be gone – unnoticed by their neighbours and friends. The reality remains however that hopeful theories about Robin having played a guitar are one thing and science another.

From comments of Anna Sannaford (sp?) the fingerprints of Robin Bain were researched again months before the 3 Degrees show ran. To think that some would assume there is a simple answer that was overlooked by David Giles and others is a desperate kind of insanity. I’m certain that none of those involved who appeared on TV or who were behind the scenes would have placed emphasis on the likelihood of gsr being on Robin’s hands unless there was a high certainty to their conclusions. The police were present during the tests and were obviously aware of the thrust of what was unfolding. The early ‘strike back’ that police were not involved is nonsense and in any event the facts speak for themselves. I’m looking forward to the more in depth analysis being revealed in the fullness of time and not just to see egg on the face of the naysayers but because of specific interest in a simple key to the entire Bain case. One that doesn’t include what Mrs Laney said, where police were standing, goats or other inane gibbering on.

To my mind because the ‘Giles Findings’ are recent and only confirmed post trial – they in themselves present opportunities in the civil front perhaps back to the statements made by Burgess last week. Whatever the case could be there, Collins has a mountain to climb made hazardous to its footholds by her own behaviour and as we have seen bullying Bain or Karam doesn’t work, nor do they have a history of losing.
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July 1, 2013 11:10am
Pele

I wonder how much tax John Key has avoided paying since he has been in government.
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July 1, 2013 11:10am
dime

Seeing as though we are talking sport..

How shit was the Wallabies v Lions test??

How on earth does Deans have a job? Personally i cant stand Quade Cooper but he would have ripped the Lions to shreds on saturday.

Playing Beiber at 10 would be like the AB coaches dropping, Carter, putting Cruden on the bench, playing Barret at fullback and putting Ben Smith at flyhalf. lunacy i tells ya
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July 1, 2013 11:12am
dime

“I wonder how much tax John Key has avoided paying since he has been in government.”

lol where did that come from?
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July 1, 2013 11:14am
Pele

Karam is a prime example of the bully and both david and karam are losers, one because of his poor execution skills and the other after repeated business failings.

Maybe the Offender should check the companies act. 😉
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July 1, 2013 11:19am
Nostalgia-NZ

Tua is a different fighter with Parore training him, that gives his ‘comeback’ credibility. If the fight is at Cave Creek that is also a happy hunting ground for him. He’s up against though yet it remains he is a world class puncher, particularly when at the right weight, in the right condition and ‘tuned in.’
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July 1, 2013 11:19am
wikiriwhis business

“Do you really think the world will be saved by taxing corporations at a greater rate?

That’s just communist bullshit.”

The US has gone downhill ever since the rich stopped paying taxes and Greece was lost due much to the same reason. Except the spin was the lie that Greeks are lazy. All the Wealthy are mostly white collar criminals. Christine Le Garde is an obvious example and may still be facing charges according to the judge she faced.
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July 1, 2013 11:24am
dime

“The US has gone downhill ever since the rich stopped paying taxes”

are you legally retarded?
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July 1, 2013 11:29am
Redbaiter

“The US has gone downhill ever since the rich stopped paying taxes and Greece was lost due much to the same reason.”

Even if there was any truth or logic to that statement have you ever looked at who pays taxes in the US. The top 1% pay 40% of the tax. The remaining tax is shared by 49%. Fifty percent of the population pay nothing.

If you were really seeking equity in paying for the cost of government you would support my view- a poll tax is the only way it can be done, which is why almost every socialist/ communist/ progressive is opposed to the idea.

Simply put, if the cost of government is $1000, and there are 1000 taxpayers, then each one pays $1. End of story. What could possibly be more simple or more fair?
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July 1, 2013 11:32am
wikiriwhis business

“Simply put, if the cost of government is $1000, and there are 1000 taxpayers, then each one pays $1. End of story. What could possibly be more simple or more fair?”

Red, if we were run by visionaries and not agenda’s you would be PM
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July 1, 2013 11:36am
dime

Red – Id love a poll tax.

I love that standard leftist bullshit idea “imagine that you weren’t born yet and you didn’t know how you’d end up, now design the tax system”. implying the progressive system is the only way to go.
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July 1, 2013 11:37am
wikiriwhis business

Dime…

Hatch believes the wealthy pay too much in taxes, even though their tax rates have been at modern lows since the Bush administration cut them down back in 2001 and 2003.

Sen. Orrin Hatch Believes The Poor Should Pay More

http://perezhilton.com/2011-07-08-senator-orrin-hatch-thinks-poor-should-pay-more-taxes#.UdDBKzH4J8E
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July 1, 2013 11:38am
graham

Colville at 10:52 am –

Jailed for three years. Good to see a strong sentence, rather than home detention or similar.

Wonder what will happen to the others?
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July 1, 2013 11:39am
Pete George

If poll taxes were such a good idea why did Thatchers attempt at imposing one fail?

And which countries currently have successful poll taxes?
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July 1, 2013 11:41am
Longknives

“Either Klitschko would would stay 2 meters away from him and batter him with a jab. Yawn.”

Colville- Do some research on the Klitschko brothers. Both have knocked out more people than Tua, Both have higher knock-out percentages than Tua…
Trust me- These boys aren’t the ‘Stand back and jab’ types!
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July 1, 2013 11:41am
MT_Tinman

Longknives (2,629) Says:
July 1st, 2013 at 9:50 am

Do we really need another David Tua comeback?

We?

What the hell’s it got to do with you? Or me or any other “we”s?

If Tua wants to fight good on him. If some are stupid enough to pay to watch him do so good on them.

Such is life on planet Earth.
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July 1, 2013 11:43am
Longknives

Dime- I see your point but get back to me when Tua makes a ‘few million’ from fighting nobodies at Mystery Creek!
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July 1, 2013 11:45am
Redbaiter

“Red – Id love a poll tax.”

Dime- that’s two of us. Think we can swing it?

Seriously though, you can see how corrupt the progressive taxation system is, and how it corrupts democracy. Take the US, where so many pay no tax at all, they can always vote for an increase in government services because they know they will never have to pay for it. Its called not having any skin in the game.

Just completely corrupt, and yet the Repubs are too paralysed by cowardice to do anything about it.
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July 1, 2013 11:46am
dime

longknives – its his first fight back for a while. a few wins and he will get a big fight. he needs some momentum. promotors need to be able to sell a fight. its worth rolling the dice
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July 1, 2013 11:50am
dime

“If poll taxes were such a good idea why did Thatchers attempt at imposing one fail?”

Derailed by the lazy, the stupid and the jealous.

If Dime was paying 20% tax and not the 50+ he pays now. Dime would have more money to invest, he would create more jobs.
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July 1, 2013 11:53am
wikiriwhis business

‘If poll taxes were such a good idea why did Thatchers attempt at imposing one fail? ‘

Did she start thinking too independently?
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July 1, 2013 11:54am
wikiriwhis business

Where have all the good men gone?

A nice lil rant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGq3iIDHr3g
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July 1, 2013 11:54am
gump

@Redbaiter

Do you really want to replace all income taxes with a poll tax?

Sounds great until you consider that most super-annuitants survive on extremely limited incomes.

Wouldn’t it be easier just to shoot the super-annuitants? Your proposal to starve them to death seems a little cruel.
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July 1, 2013 11:56am
Longknives

“longknives – its his first fight back for a while. a few wins and he will get a big fight. ”

That’s what his promoters and the NZ media said after the Cameron fight- “World Title shot next year” they screamed, “The Russians are running scared” they screamed. Then what happened?

Reality is that to get a ‘Big Fight’ Tua needs to go back to America…and stay active (fight more than once a year)
Knocking out a bum in Hamilton once a year will hardly set the Boxing World on fire..
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July 1, 2013 11:56am
wikiriwhis business

Govt will pay to shift mentally ill into work
By Lynley Bilby

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10893823
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July 1, 2013 11:58am
Longknives

“Govt will pay to shift mentally ill into work”

Good!
“Woe is me Doctor I am smoking too much Pot and think I’m feeling a bit Depressed- Can you sign me off for a Sickness Benefit so I can lounge around the rest of my life and the taxpayer can pay for my weed?”
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July 1, 2013 12:06pm
Redbaiter

Gump, I’ve no interest in dealing with fuckwit trolls like you. (or Peter George)

Anyone else asks the question I’m happy to answer it, even given its entirely false premises. (A factor that is the usual identifier of every question asked by the progressive faction.)
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July 1, 2013 12:07pm
Fletch

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10893973

To all the trendy lefties that thought it was a brilliant idea that an Islamist ruler take over Eygpt.

How many people will die violent deaths?

Pauleastbay, it’s looking more and more like Morsi and Obama were playing political games when it came to what happened in Benghazi. Morsi made it part of his platform to free the infamous “blind sheik” that the U.S is holding in custody. What was supposed to happen re: Benghazi was that the Muslims would attack the consulate and kidnap Ambassador Chris Stevens. There would then be negotiation between America and Egypt, the result being a prisoner exchange, Stevens for the Blind Sheik.

This would make both sides look good. Morsi would have got props freeing the blind sheik and Obama would also have looked good freeing Stevens, right before the 2012 election.

Trouble is, it didn’t work out like that. Stevens and three others were killed, so the U.s had to blame it on the youtube video. That is why U.S troops didn’t rush in to save Stevens and the others. it was intended that he be kidnapped.

A Libyan intelligence document has been produced that directly implicates Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood president Mohammed Mursi in the attacks on American installations in Benghazi on 9/11/12. Those who attempt to discredit this document run into trouble when it is coupled with real-time video we uncovered on 9/13/12. In that video, gunmen at the scene of the attack can be heard declaring that they were sent by Mursi.

EXHIBIT A is a video shot from a cell phone at the scene of the attacks. In this video, gunmen are seen running toward the camera, toward other gunmen. At one point – in Arabic which we have confirmed – one approaching gunman says, “Don’t Shoot us! We were sent by Mursi!”. Even though the video is in Arabic, you can discern the word “Mursi”.

A Libyan Intelligence document (EXHIBIT B) has now been brought forward by credible Arabic translator Raymond Ibrahim. This document discusses the confessions of six members of an Egyptian Ansar al-Sharia cell who were arrested and found to be involved in the Benghazi attacks. Ibrahim reported the following about this document:

It discusses the preliminary findings of the investigation, specifically concerning an “Egyptian cell” which was involved in the consulate attack. “Based on confessions derived from some of those arrested at the scene” six people, “all of them Egyptians” from the jihad group Ansar al-Sharia (“Supporters of Islamic Law), were arrested.

According to the report, during interrogations, these Egyptian jihadi cell members “confessed to very serious and important information concerning the financial sources of the group and the planners of the event and the storming and burning of the U.S. consulate in Benghazi…. And among the more prominent figures whose names were mentioned by cell members during confessions were: Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi…

Consider the itinerary for Ambassador Stevens, who arrived in Benghazi on 9/10/12 and was scheduled to depart on 9/14/12 (EXHIBIT P). That the State Department’s top official in Libya would be sent to Benghazi one day before the anniversary of 9/11 is indeed vexing but that he would be sent to a location that was woefully unprotected and had been attacked with an I.E.D. that blew a large hole in the perimeter wall is beyond troubling.

http://shoebat.com/2013/06/30/benghazi-turning-a-blind-eye-for-the-blind-sheikh/

Read the whole thing. This is the second time I have heard this story, the first being last month, or the month before.
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July 1, 2013 12:12pm
hj

re harawiras nephew.

I wonder if that was a foreshore and seabed inspired assault? Some of those Maori have entrenched beliefs about ownership of this and that (here there and everywhere).

As the 30-year-old was leaving the beach, the police summary of facts says he observed the “victim mouthing some words” at him as he and two others went to leave the beach.
….
The parents of the victim have disputed that their son mouthed something at Mau Harawira.

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/hone-harawira-s-nephew-jailed-over-horrendous-assault-boy-5482780
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July 1, 2013 12:15pm
Pete George

Claiming that equality of tax would work wonderfully is the same as claiming equality of income would work wonderfully – without any evidence it would work successfully and with evidence that it is very unpopular it’s pointless ideological posturing.

I guess you could put the two together – by equalising incomes you will automatically equalise taxes, but I’m not aware of that ever working successfully.
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July 1, 2013 12:16pm
Fletch

More evidence –

According to a March 14 posting on an al Qaeda-linked website, Dhu-al-Bajadin stated that Stevens was given a lethal injection that was overlooked during the autopsy.

The “plan was based on abduction and exchange of high-level prisoners,” the terrorist wrote on the prominent jihadist Web forum Ansar al-Mujahideen Network. “However, the operation took another turn, for a reason God only knows, when one of the members of the jihadist cell improvised and followed Plan B.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/4/al-qaeda-weapons-expert-us-ambassador-libya-killed/#ixzz2VJepgUnQ
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July 1, 2013 12:17pm
Yvette

Various people contributing to the debate regarding the Bain family murders know the evidence inside out, so I would appreciate it if one of those can confirm whether there was in fact a magazine in the rifle at the time it was found. One magazine was on the floor, standing on its edge, beside Robin’s hand. Where was the other magazine after the final shot?
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July 1, 2013 12:17pm
dime

“Claiming that equality of tax would work wonderfully is the same as claiming equality of income would work wonderfully – without any evidence it would work successfully and with evidence that it is very unpopular it’s pointless ideological posturing.”

god youre a muppet.

Human Nature 101 for PG

Pay everyone the same, most people stop trying or corrupt the system.
Tax everyone the same percentage and those who want to work for a living will generally increase their productivity. Hell, even if they dont, the extra money they have will either be spent (stimulating the economy) or invested (providing capital which grows the economy).

but thanks for your mr sensible wannabe answer.

“oh that PG, hes just so sensible. i bet he could make the worm go higher than ever!!!”
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July 1, 2013 12:22pm
flipper

peterwn (2,248) Says:

July 1st, 2013 at 10:20 am
Flipper – Cabinet inaction in the absence of any legislative requirement is not judicially reviewable, otherwise anyone with an axe to grind on any topic can demand action from a Minister and if it is refused, go to court. The Royal prerogative of mercy is not reviewable by the courts and the compensation claim is of similar ilk.

Judith – Agreed John Key should act immediately. He should tell Judith Collins to forget all about the compensation issue and get on with life. Michael reed wants immediate action and John Key can deliver on this. Cabinet has better things to do with its time.
……………….

But Peter….
JR does not refer to Cabinet actions, does it?
The question has gone well past that and IS now in JR land. Moreover there are BoR grounds, bad faith and all those consequential things.

Are you saying that by fiat the Cabinet can over-ride the BoR? Are you saying that the Crown and Reed/Bain can reach an agreement on procedure, but when the result is not to silly Collins / Crown Law/ Police liking, she can change the “rules” and throw all that had been agreed out?

From all your previous writings I had come to believe that you are not that silly.
So get off your Crown Law horse, and read Nostalgia-NZ at 11.10am above.
He puts it into proper perspective. You, Peter, are attempting to defend the indefensible.
A lawyer’s cross, I suppose. But not one you need to bear.

New Zealanders will swallow or tolerate many things. But they never swallow deceit, lies and unfairness – by the Crown and its employees of whatever description). (70 – 30 plus deficit for the Crown at the moment Peter, more when it all comes out) 🙂
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July 1, 2013 12:24pm
Chuck Bird

@yvette

I do not claim to know the evidence inside out as some on both side. However, it is logical that the other magazine was in the rifle.
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July 1, 2013 12:28pm
Lance

Harawira a “gutless cowardly thug”
I had to read it properly to figure out who the judge was talking about;

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10894035
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July 1, 2013 12:33pm
Yvette

Chuck Bird – I do not claim to know the evidence inside out as some on both side. However, it is logical that the other magazine was in the rifle.

It would seem logical, but then –

I asked my Senior Writer, Phil While, a retired police officer and a gun expert what he thought of the photo. I only told him the most basic information about the case and asked him for him opinion on the magazine without Googling for additional case information.

Phil noted the lines on his thumb appeared to be about the same distance apart from the magazine, but that there was not enough information to go on from just that photo. Phil also said “… in all the suicides I’ve worked, I have never seen a magazine removed before the person shot themselves. That makes no sense nor does the upright mag[azine].”
– http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/06/exclusive-firearms-experts-dismisses-bain-claims/

This can be where the ‘new evidence’ can raise more questions than it answers.
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July 1, 2013 12:42pm
Chuck Bird

I would also like to know if anyone checked how hard it would have been to remove the silencer. Would it have needed a screwdriver or could it have been just forced off?
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July 1, 2013 12:49pm
Yvette

I have asked about the silencer in the past and understand it is difficult to remove – not a simple screw-off job, as in many movies.
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July 1, 2013 12:53pm
Pete George

PM’s inquiry may be illegal

The Prime Minister’s inquiry into the leaking of the Kitteridge report appears to have acted beyond the law by accessing Peter Dunne’s email account log without his permission, and the Green Party has lodged a complaint with the Ombudsmen on this issue, Green Party Co-leader Dr Russel Norman said today.

After the leaking of the Kitteridge report the Prime Minister’s department established an inquiry into the leak headed up by David Henry. This inquiry accessed Peter Dunne’s parliamentary email account log to access his email metadata in order to determine to whom Mr Dunne sent emails, from whom he received emails, at what times and what the subject line was.

“This is a very serious matter.

“An official acting on behalf of the Prime Minister has accessed the email accounts of a Member of Parliament apparently without that member’s permission.

“The parliamentary server belongs to Parliament not the Executive. MPs control whether their email logs are released from the parliamentary server, not the Prime Minister’s office.

“This is a separate matter from accessing Ministerial email account logs, which arguably the Prime Minister can access lawfully. And it is a separate matter from accessing Mr Dunne’s security card record of movements throughout the building, for which Mr Dunne says he did give permission.

“This is about the Prime Minister’s officials accessing MPs’ email accounts apparently without their permission.

“This comes on top of the terrible decision by the Parliamentary Service to hand over data on movements of journalists and politicians throughout the building.”

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1307/S00008/pms-inquiry-may-be-illegal.htm

That only addresses email data, and not swipecard data, landline data or cellphone data.
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July 1, 2013 12:54pm
wikiriwhis business

Max Keiser Report

This should be in America as well Demanding Obama and the crooks in Banks and Government all go.

Protesters call for Morsi’s resignation

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=542939062408951&set=a.157996427569885.25021.157390410963820&type=1&theater
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July 1, 2013 12:55pm
cha

Read the whole thing. This is the second time I have heard this story, the first being last month, or the month before

Fletch swallows.

Shoebat’s claim to have been a terrorist rests on his account of the purported bombing of Bank Leumi. But after checking its files, the bank said it had no record of an attack on its Bethlehem branch anywhere in the relevant 1977-79 period. Shoebat told The Jerusalem Post that this could be because the bank building was robustly protected with steel and that the attack may have caused little damage. Asked whether word of the bombing made the news at the time, he said, “I don’t know. I didn’t read the papers because I was in hiding for the next three days.” (In 2004, he had told Britain’s Sunday Telegraph: “I was terribly relieved when I heard on the news later that evening that no one had been hurt or killed by my bomb.”) Shoebat could not immediately recall the year, or even the time of year, of the purported bombing when talking to the Post by phone from the US. After wavering, he finally settled for the summer of 1977.

http://www.jpost.com/Features/The-Palestinian-terrorist-turned-Zionist

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/07/11/terrorism.expert/index.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/07/us/07muslim.html?_r=0

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/4245/enough-walid-shoebat-why-is-sean-hannitys-fake-terrorist-harassing-me/
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July 1, 2013 12:55pm
Fletch

cha, play the ball not the man.
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July 1, 2013 12:59pm
Nookin

Flipper

What BORA rights are affected here? If Bain had a “right” to compensation then I would agree with you. We are talking about an ex gratia payment in this case. BORA refers to “rights” and an this case Bain does not have a “right” to compensation. If he did then we would not be in this position.

I think the critical issue in the Judicial Review proceedings will be the status attributed to the Binnie report. It is placed somewhere on a continuum starting with legal and factual advice simpliciter sought by the Crown and ending somewhere a little short of an adjudicative process that is somehow binding on the parties.

It seems to me that the report would have to have some standing over and above mere advice before Bain had any standing.

Even then, I am not altogether certain that this would help him. The proceedings have not been publicised. I have always understood that the applicant is seeking judicial review of the Minister’s decision to get the Binnie report peer reviewed without consulting the other side. If the report is simply advice given to the Crown then there seems to me to be in no reason why the Crown cannot decide to get a second opinion. That opinion could quite easily have supported what Binnie concluded. As it turns out, the report did not necessarily question the final conclusion (it did in fact concede that the final conclusion may well be correct) but it did question the manner in which the conclusion was reached.

If the Crown has reservations about advice given and is intent on finding out just how robust that advice is, what difference would consultation have made?

If the report had some standing over and above mere advice and that somehow had the status of a determination of rights and obligations between the parties, then surely the Crown’s position is that of a litigant and the steps taken by the Crown are similar to those of a litigant seeking advice on whether there should be an appeal. In those circumstances, a litigant does not consult with the other side before seeking that advice.

It is suggested that Collins directed Fisher wanted to put in his report. The Herald referred to a 34 point brief. There is nothing at all unusual in that. The report was considered, as I understand it, by the Solicitor General, Attorney General and Police along with a number of others. As a result of that consultation, Fisher was asked to look at a number of specified points. This happens every day and is to be expected. Sometimes Counsel agrees with a proposition advanced by the instructing solicitor (in this case I compare Collins with an instructing solicitor) and sometimes Counsel disagrees. Nothing to date suggests to me that Collins has directed an outcome and nobody has come up with any evidence to suggest that she did.

Similarly, I have yet to read a principled argument that Fisher was incorrect on his approach to some critical issues – particularly the approach to circumstantial evidence. References to Fisher’s alleged proclivities on issues unrelated to legal matters does not really help the situation. That is a bit like saying that Keith Richards was a lousy musician because he was a pothead or van Gogh painting have no value because he was a nutter.

I have read many commentaries suggesting that his approach was quite correct. Certainly, my understanding of the appropriate approach towards circumstantial evidence accords with the views expressed by Fisher. There may of course be a question whether Binnie diverted from the appropriate approach. There is room to argue that he did. The Crown is fully entitled to explore the possibility that he erred. It is, after all, in a position analogous to a defendant in civil proceedings. It is being asked to pay money to someone else.
Flipper argues that there was an agreement on the procedure. Have the details of that agreement been publicised? Is it suggested that the report would constitute a binding outcome? If that is the case and Binnie had come to the contrary conclusion but made a fundamental mistake of law, would Bain have been contractually bound to consult with the Crown before seeking advice as to whether that mistake of law was significant? I doubt it.

Some of the comments have tended to confuse the issue. It was probably inappropriate for Collins to say that Binnie descended into the arena of conflict. That suggests that Billy had some form of judicial or quasi judicial role rather than simply an advisory role. My view is that when the matter goes to court, the court would be very slow to suggest that this had some form of adjudicative status. I think it would have been advisable for her to have said that Binnie may have lost his sense of objectivity rather than suggest that he was acting in a judicial capacity.

It has been suggested that Collins has also descended into the arena of conflict. Of course she has. She is a party to the claim. She has to make recommendations to the Cabinet. In doing so she is not acting judicially. She does have to act lawfully but it is a little difficult to identify the legal principles that apply when we are talking about discretionary payments on an ex gratia basis based on Cabinet guidelines which are, of themselves, very vague and which do not even extend to the factual circumstances of this particular case.
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July 1, 2013 1:09pm
wikiriwhis business

Max Keiser Report
I always said that Obama is the soft face of Bush. People in the US are so brainwashed that they still don’t understand the magnitude of these revelations. The American system is now profiling and cataloging all of its citizens. This information can be used and abused not only to bar people from society but also from our political system. When you know the habits of a person, their likes dislikes, what they read, what they watch, who they socialize with etc. the possibilities to take advantage are immense.
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July 1, 2013 1:12pm
cha

Fair enough Fletch but you will persist in citing absolutely anybody or anything that fits your narrative when a two minute google would show Shoebat to be a fraud.
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July 1, 2013 1:13pm
graham

The Prime Minister’s inquiry into the leaking of the Kitteridge report appears to have acted beyond the law by accessing Peter Dunne’s email account log without his permission, and the Green Party has lodged a complaint with the Ombudsmen on this issue, Green Party Co-leader Dr Russel Norman said today.

Would this be the same Russel Norman who, three weeks ago, said “police need to investigate and force Mr Dunne to release his email exchange with Ms Vance” because “clearly (inquiry head) David Henry didn’t have sufficient powers to make Peter Dunne release the emails. If the police are investigating a Crimes Act offence, then they do have the powers to get Peter Dunne to release the emails.”

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/dunne-affair-labour-greens-draw-flak-over-chilling-police-inquiry-call-ck-141257

Which Graeme Edgeler, upon your questioning him “What sort of inquiry can compel someone to give all evidence and answer every question asked fully?” responded “An illegal one. Perhaps Norman and Robertson haven’t thought this through, but they are proposing a police inquiry into a political leak with a compulsion to give evidence.”

How much credence does anybody give Russel Norman’s opinions? I thought the prevailing opinion, following his “John Key is just like Muldoon” and “Let’s print money!” infamies, was that he really hasn’t got a clue what he’s talking about.
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July 1, 2013 1:15pm
wikiriwhis business

Rand Paul Report

Published on Dec 12, 2012

Like the Hosni Mubarak administration before them, this week it was announced that the US would be giving the Muslim Brotherhood 20 F-16 fighter jets as part of $1 billion in foreign aid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fz0L4k7TRU
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July 1, 2013 1:16pm

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