About
Contact
Advertise

Facebook
Twitter

July 14, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 July 2013

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment212

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (212)

Login to comment or vote

UglyTruth

I asked a simple question.

Liar.
You didn’t, you attempted to tell me to do do something: “Now prove god exists…”

How about we just go with the theory that that you won’t answer because to do so would show that you are too consumed by your sense of self to consider the irony that your posturing about “cults referring to imaginary beings” implies something like omniscience on your part?
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 1:20pm
Reid

Kea there is very little point in debating God’s existence with you because you’re not prepared to change your mind. You’re fanatically opposed to all arguments in favour and embrace with fervour every skerrick against no matter how vapid. Arguing with you on this subject is therefore about as productive as arguing with a particularly stupid donkey.

If you are genuinely interested then I suggest you look around for books by a guy called William Lane Craig. He decimated the atheist’s folk hero Chris Hitchens making him look “like a foolish child.”

I know you won’t bother yourself to truly investigate the most important question you face in life, but if you are ever so inclined, look him up and read him.

The argument is of course far too detailed and complex to go into here on a single Sunday afternoon but I’m sure google can help you out.
1 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 1:23pm
hj

Reasons for migrating

The outcomes in the first few years after migration suggest that the goal of a better lifestyle was not achieved: regular work hours and full social lives in China were replaced with hard work, long hours, and quiet social lives in NewZealand. Nonetheless, most interviewed migrants expected to remain in Auckland and more than half expected to retire in NewZealand. The research also identified residential concentrations of Chinese migrants and a concentration of business activity. The latter is sometimes referred to as an ‘ethnic precinct’ (see, for example, Collins, 2003), which can be found for some other ethnic groups as well.

http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/synthesis-research/synthesis-research_02.asp

so the less than half will get super in China where cost of living is dirt cheap?
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 1:25pm
Kea

Reid, I have forgotten more about the god debate than you will ever learn, so drop the condesending bullshit. I have heard William Craig’s arguments, along with all the leading religious academics and thinkers. I understand their position well. God does not exist no matter how much you want it to. Grow up and accept reality. It is a big step for you to take, but the rewards are worth it. Life and reality are wonderful, even more so when they are not seen through the lens of primitive myths. Let go of your fear and step into the light.

But you are distracting from the specific issue. Ugly said the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. But applies a totally different standard when god is the issue. He is unable to explain this double standard.

Can you ?
3 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 1:32pm
Reid

I don’t care to talk to you on this Kea, I concluded several weeks ago trying to penetrate your fanaticism is a waste of my time. If you really have read Craig, then why don’t you give us a summary of his main points and your rebuttal of them, just so we know you’re not just saying that.
0 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 1:39pm
hj

Stillman and Mar (2008), Coleman and Landon-Lane (2007), and Grimes etal (2007) all found a relationship between immigration and house prices at the national level. Interestingly, Stillman and Mar (2008) and Grimes etal (2007), who included sub-national analyses, found much weaker relationships. Further, when the composition of the inflows was disaggregated, the impact of an inflow of overseas born to an area was negligible. Given the lack of a relationship at the local level these results raise doubts about whether the strong positive correlation that exists between migration and house prices at the national level is in fact causal. In other words, given the uneven distribution of immigrants across NewZealand, if immigration were the key driver of recent house price inflation, then it would be expected that areas with higher inflows of immigrants would have the highest levels of house price appreciation. This was not found to be the case and suggests that the relationship at the national level may be a consequence of omitted aggregate time series factors that raise both immigration and house prices.
http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/synthesis-research/synthesis-research_04.asp

so what about Auckland right now? They don’t accept the strong correlation at the national level and find nothing at the local level other than returning kiwis affecting rents and house prices even though we have one of the highest proportion of immigrants in the world.*

*Other developed countries in which more than 25percent of the population were born abroad are Australia, Luxembourg, Switzerland, and Israel. In the United States, the country with the largest number of immigrants, immigrants account for only one-eighth of the population.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 1:48pm
Kea

Reid, you are an intellectual coward. Craig is an idiot and flaws in his arguments are obvious. And he is one of the best 🙂

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D5qFmR4EPI
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 1:48pm
UglyTruth

Ugly said the burden of proof is on the person making the claim.

No, I said nothing about persons. The relevant point is that in order do make a truthful denial one must have knowledge of the subject, and athiests do not have a complete knowledge of the existence of divine beings.

The fact that you are both a liar and a statist makes quite a lot of sense given the athiestic and untruthful position of the state regarding the nature of common law. Like attracts like.
1 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 1:50pm
Kea

I am still waiting for an explanation of the double standard regarding the burden of proof. Personal attacks and red herrings are all we have so far 🙂

And these people demand we “respect” their ignorance and lies ! Incredible.
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 1:51pm
Kea

Oh the lies the terrible terrible lies

UglyTruth (1,170) Says:
July 14th, 2013 at 11:56 am
A FACT is not whatever you claim Reid.

PG, Reid’s fact was a negative, i.e that Key did not head hunt. If you contest this then it is up to you to show that he did. The burden of proof applies only applies to positive assertions (ie that something exists), not negative ones since in general it is impossible to prove a negative.
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 1:53pm
hj

1 Introduction and Background

NewZealand is one of very few countries in which immigrants account for about one-quarter of the population.[1] Although a substantial number of NewZealanders move abroad every year, either temporarily or permanently, the number of foreign-born people arriving to live in NewZealand exceeds the net loss of NewZealanders.[2] How different would the country have looked without these new residents of Aotearoa NewZealand? Of course, there would have been less cultural diversity, fewer languages spoken and fewer people around. But the country would also have been different in other fundamental ways: demographically, socially, economically, institutionally, and even environmentally.
……….
Slack etal (2007) did not cover all components of government accounts. For example, settlement support expenses were not included as they were assumed to be one-off costs and often covered by the fees paid by migrants through the migrant levy.

A potentially more important omitted category is the large-scale public infrastructure investment that might be needed following the expansion of the population. This kind of expenditure is conceptually difficult to allocate to ****relatively small**** changes in the population resulting from immigration. There is also the question to what extent existing infrastructure is sufficiently underutilised to be able to cope with additional population without incurring congestion effects. This may be particularly important in NewZealand, where most new migrants settle in Auckland; a city in which, for example, investment in transportation infrastructure has not kept pace with increasing demand. However, it should also be noted in this context that Slack etal (2007) did not consider the emigration of NewZealanders and earlier immigrants. In fact, if the impact of outflows were also considered, the net effect of omitting capital investment is likely to be less because the outflows offset much of the impact of the inflow on infrastructure.
http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/synthesis-research/synthesis-research_06.asp

So Wats link doesn’t consider the fiscal impact of immigration on infrastructure (of course geee we haven’t had many immigrants so it wouldn’t be worth looking into) :
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:07pm
SPC

Just to divert the debate on the case for the existence of God.

Free will is necessary for faith in God to exist … yet proof of God’s existence is the end of free will.

1A. Without free will life is controlled within its created natural state, free will is required for dominion over life.
1B. Free will allows awareness of the issue of a God being posed as the source of creation.
1C. Free will involves an awareness of choice to how we form culture and society and live our lives.
1D. We learn by experience, and based on this can prophecy that the next generation will repeat the choices of past generations whatever is counselled to them.

2A. Without the knowledge of God, there is no awareness of what the right choice is.
2B. With only the knowledge of man, there is only a path to awareness of what the right choice is/might be
2C. If God allows free will and is not imposing the right choice/path on us, we should not impose our right answers on others, as clearly discovery of the right way is being left to us.
2D. Prophecy of judgement is a tool to coerce people to obedience, yet ultimately we judge our own lives by hindsight/regret of wrong choices – such guilt is based on learning from experience.

As we have been left to learn by experience it is unlikely that judgment is going to occur for having lived an imperfect life, just because we are inadequate compared to a perfect human being who lived a perfect life.

Those who claim knowledge of God are so arrogant as to think they can speak for God and impose their order over us – we should simply judge what they advocate as an order of the rule of society on its merit and note whether it allows free will to flourish. But note that God, who could have improved on their order of rule design did not choose to deliver one to us – presumably based on respect for our free will.
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:16pm
Pete George

Dave Armstrong ‏@malosilima
A country where George Zimmerman is innocent and Edward Snowden is guilty faces some major challenges.
1 6
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:21pm
SPC

Ugly Truth,

Belief in God (and that one exists) does not make anyone an expert in knowledge of God.

The religions of this world and the related laws of them when imposed over peoples and nations (whether called common law or constitutional law or legislated law), are not based on knowledge of God but the exploitation of the concept of God to establish some legitimacy to an authority ruling over man.

In your case you connect God to common law authority and claim legislated law developed by democratic regimes is subordinate to it.
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:23pm
Manolo

The killing machine rolls on: http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/regun/1817594505-police-release-name-of-dead-baby-boy

This is a Maori problem, not a NZ problem.
Now let’s wait for the do-gooders and guilty (il)liberals to jump to the defense of the savages who killed another innocent baby.
9 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:23pm
All_on_Red

Zimmerman is the victim of a vicious smear campaign. Trayvon was a thug dealing in guns and violence and got what he deserved.
3 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:24pm
Reid

The master at work:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/11/hitler-photos_n_3579507.html

Zimmerman is the victim of a vicious smear campaign. Trayvon was a thug dealing in guns and violence and got what he deserved.

Spoken like a true sheeple, Red. This case was picked when it happened as one they would use to incite racial hatred, and so it has become. It’s quite interesting, watching people being manipulated.
0 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:25pm
SPC

Manolo, this is a NZ problem but as Maori are more often involved (and they are a minority of the population) that makes targeting solutions a little easier.
1 5
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:29pm
Pete George

The Shearer destabilisation has begun in earnest at The Standard. New names popping up with inside information creating a narrative. Seen it happening before.

“All agree Shearer is finished”
2 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:36pm
Kea

Manolo, this is a NZ problem but as Maori are more often involved (and they are a minority of the population) that makes targeting solutions a little easier.

SPC, careful you don’t injure your self with those verbal gymnastics. 🙂

If we take Maori out of the statistics for violence, I wonder how the figures would look ? I suggest the figures would show us as one of least violent places on earth. And you know it SPC
7 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:37pm
UglyTruth

The religions of this world and the related laws of them when imposed over peoples and nations (whether called common law or constitutional law or legislated law), are not based on knowledge of God but the exploitation of the concept of God to establish some legitimacy to an authority ruling over man.

The laws over people that are related to religion are not necessarily based on religion. Whether or not English common law is based on fact or on religious belief depends on what King Alfred the Great knew when he established English common law, which is in turn based on Judaic law. The same argument can be applied to Judaic law, and the simplest explanation for the associated Judaic writings is that a very powerful or divine being was involved in the development of that law.
0 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:42pm
Kea

Ugly… never mind that. You still have to prove god exists.

Ugly Truth: “The burden of proof applies only applies to positive assertions (ie that something exists), not negative ones since in general it is impossible to prove a negative.”

the simplest explanation for the associated Judaic writings is that a very powerful or divine being was involved in the development of that law.

“The simplest” LOL 🙂 Prove it….
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:53pm
SPC

Ugly Truth , as I said, but I appreciate your explanation that some invention by Jews as to the source of their covenant nation’s law is used by you to justify the common law of the English nation as also having a sacred origin – to argue that modern democracy is/should be subordinate to common law.

The idea that law comes from some higher authority that provides it with the legitimacy to judge human beings is the argument that is should be beyond any accountability to democratic reform.
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:54pm
All_on_Red

“Spoken like a true sheeple, Red”
WTF?
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:55pm
Reid

As we have been left to learn by experience it is unlikely that judgment is going to occur for having lived an imperfect life, just because we are inadequate compared to a perfect human being who lived a perfect life.

I don’t follow that argument SPC. Judgement is not imposed on us for living an imperfect life, for all life apart from JC’s is imperfect, from the very second you emerge from the womb. Judgement is imposed for choosing to do the wrong thing when we could have chosen to do the right thing.

Those who claim knowledge of God are so arrogant as to think they can speak for God and impose their order over us – we should simply judge what they advocate as an order of the rule of society on its merit and note whether it allows free will to flourish. But note that God, who could have improved on their order of rule design did not choose to deliver one to us – presumably based on respect for our free will.

I accept there probably are Christians who think they speak for God although I’ve never met one. I have noticed there is a widespread misconception amongst non-Christians who hallucinate that when Christians discuss Christianity that this is what they are doing, but newsflash, what they’re doing is discoursing aspects of the faith, and that’s not speaking for God, that is explicating what God has said in the Bible, and they are two entirely different things.

God could have created a perfect world where no-one ever does the wrong thing, but think about what sort of a life that would be, because it extends to thoughts as well as actions. It means that from birth you would never have a naughty thought about that girl or boy, you would never make a mistake, you would never do any of the millions of things that make us human. What sort of a life would that be, to live in it and to have no escape from it, because you couldn’t even do that, since you couldn’t even conceive of suicide let alone do it.

Free will builds spiritual muscle. That’s its purpose. This life is a school, and we are all on a journey. We are spiritual beings having a temporary physical experience, not the other way round. And viewing this life in that context means that freedom of choice is a necessary corollary otherwise there would be no learning.

The beginning of wisdom it says in the Bible, is knowledge of God. That is, that God exists. That’s the starting point of wisdom, real wisdom, as distinct from the pretend stuff you learn from fellow travellers aka humans that are being or have been. Another piece of wisdom is less well known, and that is that God is the source of all good. Once you get that through your head, a lot of things fall into place. Such as the fact that evil happens when humans exercise their free will outside of Godly process and/or when Satan gets involved which he does, on a frequent basis. For something that seems to pass many non-Christians by is the fact that this is not God’s world here today, it’s Satan’s, and he has been given free reign to turn as many people as he can from God and Satan the Deceiver and the Slanderer is very good at what he does. At the end of the day he won’t have any effect, but right now, that’s what is happening here on Earth, today.
0 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:57pm
Reid

“Spoken like a true sheeple, Red”
WTF?

Just that you and quite a few million others are being played like a violin, red. That’s what I meant.
0 4
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 2:58pm
All_on_Red

In what regard Reid?
edit- actually don’t bother answering. You are one of the biggest morons on here and I cant be bothered with you.
4 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:03pm
Kea

Reid, I can only wonder at the harm your self deception and lies does to you. I can not understand how you can live with the self loathing and disgust you must feel for yourself, or maybe you just have no conscience.
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:04pm
SPC

Ugly Truth, I could add, the idea of a supreme law giver to a Jewish nation state came as a counterpoint to Jews being subject to the imperial law of Babylon (law code of Hammurabi).

Claiming that their nation was under God law and God’s protection rather than any empire that sought imperial tribute and obedience was a manifestation of the idea that nation states are sovereign areas that determine their own rule before God. This is what inspired the American revolution and the language used to legitimise it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:05pm
UglyTruth

… your explanation that some invention by Jews as to the source of their covenant nation’s law …

I didn’t say that they invented anything. The archaeological evidence (eg Jericho, Sodom & Gomorrah) strongly suggests that the accounts are of actual historical events rather than invention.
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:08pm
SPC

Reid, the bible is not knowledge about God from God to man, even though Jews, Christians and Jews claim it is. Yet those of these faiths claim knowledge what the right thing to do is found in it. Thus their faith limits their free will.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:10pm
UglyTruth

… the idea of a supreme law giver to a Jewish nation state came as a counterpoint to Jews being subject to the imperial law of Babylon …

The problem is that the law of Moses predates the Babylonian exile.
0 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:10pm
Reid

Manolo, this is a NZ problem but as Maori are more often involved (and they are a minority of the population) that makes targeting solutions a little easier.

Yes but we’re not allowed to target the problem, are we SPC. No, that would be, apparently, vewy vewy wacist indeed. No, appawently the pwoblem lies in poverty and colonialism and has nothing whatsoever to do with parental attitudes because if you’re poor and dispossessed then appawently, it’s perfectly natural to lash out at the innocent baby who was fathered by someone else. That’s just to be expected. Whoever did it is appawently, yet another victim of this tewwible poverty slash colonialism monster and all that is required is for the nasty selfish taxpayer – you and I – to splash out another few mill of the money that we stole from Maowi in the first place on developing even more wrap-around services so the poor widdle victims never ever have to get angwy ever again. The only reason it hasn’t worked already is because we don’t have enough wrap-around services, you see. And if we don’t do this why then we’re just nasty selfish hateful rich pricks who live in our castles on the hill and look down from our banquet tables on the poor widdle Maowi victims who just can’t help it.

Lest anyone think I’m trivialising the death of a baby, it really pisses me off but this really is how the people who make the policy think.
3 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:16pm
SPC

Ugly Truth, what has the bible’s record of history to do with the claim that a certain law code came from God?

The Earth was not 4000 years old when the New Testament was written. There was no flood covering the Earth and no archaeologist has identified where Sodom and Gomorrah were let alone that any act of God occurred to kill anyone.

Why do those of faith postulate mythical accounts of occasions where God kills human beings, the slander of God as a killer is a false witness, is it because they have a murderous heart and seek license to kill/judge the unbeliever – force others to fearfully obey their God or die?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:18pm
Kea

Reid, but you just told us the problem is SATAN not Maoris.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:19pm
SPC

Reid, whanau ora is premised on the idea that this approach to targeting of Maori families will improve things.
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:21pm
Kea

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

2) God’s Murders for Stupid Reasons:

Kill Brats
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

God Kills the Curious
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and’ fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Killed by a Lion
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, “Strike me!” But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, “Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.” And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

Killing the Good Samaritan
The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.
When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

3) Murdering Children

Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

God Will Kill Children
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.” O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don’t give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, “All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.” (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

Kill Men, Women, and Children
“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

Kill Old Men and Young Women
“You are my battle-ax and sword,” says the LORD. “With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. “As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem,” says the LORD. “Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy,” says the LORD. “I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out,” says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

More Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

4) Miscellaneous Murders

More of Samson’s Murders
(The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)

Peter Kills Two People
There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception. Then Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren’t lying to us but to God.” As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, “Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?” “Yes,” she replied, “that was the price.” And Peter said, “How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too.” Instantly, she fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)

Mass Murder
This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: ‘I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.’ (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

You Have to Kill
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

The Danites Kill the Next Town
But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword. Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan. (Joshua 19:47 NAB)

God Kills Some More
Then the LORD said to me, “Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn’t help them. Away with them! Get them out of my sight! And if they say to you, ‘But where can we go?’ tell them, ‘This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.’ “I will send four kinds of destroyers against them,” says the LORD. “I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left. Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth.” (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)

God Promises More Killing
I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)

The Angel of Death
My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB)

Destruction of Ai
Then the LORD said to Joshua, “Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city.” So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: “Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, ‘The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.’ Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders.” So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night.
Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn’t realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open.
Then the LORD said to Joshua, “Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city.” Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.
When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)

Killing at Jericho
When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)

God Kills an Extended Family
“You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.'” Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam’s wife, “Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him.” (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)

Mass Murder
The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon. Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon. (Judges 20:48 NAB)

The Angel of Death
That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)

Kill Your Neighbors
(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, “All of you who are on the LORD’s side, come over here and join me.” And all the Levites came. He told them, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors.” The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, “Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing.” (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

Kill the Family of Sinners
And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it.” [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.] “So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster’s Bible)

Kill Followers of Other Religions
While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD’s anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: “Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel.” So Moses ordered Israel’s judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man’s body and into the woman’s stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)

Murder
At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, “O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command. O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself.” Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. It even licked up all the water in the ditch! And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, “The LORD is God! The LORD is God!” Then Elijah commanded, “Seize all the prophets of Baal. Don’t let a single one escape!” So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there. (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)

Kill All of Babylon
“Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you,” says the LORD. “Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction”. (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)

Micah Kills a Whole Town
Then, with Micah’s idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel’s son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT) (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)
3 6
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:23pm
SPC

Ugly Truth

Babylon was an empire under Hammurabi’s rule before the covenant nation was formed. It’s law code was emulated around the region afterwards.

The Hittites for example used language similar to the Hebrews when each new king took the throne, they would declare their order of rule for their reign – such as a just law code etc.

Hammurabi ruled c1700BCE, about 200 years before the Ugarit and other phonetic alphabets (such as Hebrew) were developed.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:26pm
UglyTruth

Ugly Truth, what has the bible’s record of history to do with the claim that a certain law code came from God?

Historical events which only make sense if a divine being was involved.

The Earth was not 4000 years old when the New Testament was written.

The book of Genesis doesn’t describe a young earth. The monotheists conflate the first and second chapters to avoid the problem of “let us make man”, and a young earth is one of several resulting absurdities.

There was no flood covering the Earth

A great flood is recorded by many cultures, not just the Hebrews.

no archaeologist has identified where Sodom and Gomorrah were

Nope. http://www.ronwyatt.com/sodom_and_gomorrah.html

Why do those of faith postulate mythical accounts of occasions where God kills human beings, the slander of God as a killer is a false witness …

Justice rewards good with good and evil with evil.
0 4
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:31pm
Kea

Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.

Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

It is clear that God doesn’t give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans “property”.
2 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:33pm
UglyTruth

Babylon was an empire under Hammurabi’s rule before the covenant nation was formed.

Right, but the original context was of “Jews being subject to the imperial law of Babylon”.
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:33pm
Keeping Stock

Penny Bright said

This ongoing persecution of Vince Siemer, in my opinion, NZ’s foremost ‘whistleblower’ against judicial corruption, makes me ashamed to be a New Zealander.

And the fact that you are free to express an opinion with which I (and probably most people here) completely disagree with Penny makes ME proud to be a New Zealander. But if people deliberately flout Court orders as your mate Vince does, I expect that law to come down harshly on them. Fair’s fair, don’t you think?
5 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:35pm
SPC

Ugly Truth, no the context was having their own national law or adopting the imperial law code of Hammurabi. Developing their own national law code and claiming it came from a higher authority than that of other realms, meant that the nation was committed to defending its own sovereignty and would have its own religion etc.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:38pm
Reid

Reid, the bible is not knowledge about God from God to man, even though Jews, Christians and Jews claim it is. Yet those of these faiths claim knowledge what the right thing to do is found in it. Thus their faith limits their free will.

But faith is based on free will too SPC. God in His wisdom has given us all the choice either to believe (to have faith) or not. That’s a free choice. At any time a Christian is free to renounce his or her faith. None of us are bound to it.

If you’re curious, I wouldn’t dare presume to speak for any other Christian on this particular matter but for me, the reason for my faith, my faith raison d’etre, is because it’s simply the right thing to do. God exists, therefore it is right, true and just that I acknowledge Him. I know that He exists at both an emotional and an intellectual level. Intellectually because to me, it’s just not statistically probable to form the universe and us in it, in the way that it is formed, by a series of mere chance events. And science bears this out. I don’t wish to debate it with anyone because for me, with my intellect, that’s enough. I don’t care if someone else’s intellect disagrees with it. That doesn’t matter, to me. I also know God exists on an emotional level because of some of the things He has done for me in my life and for others who are close to me. And my layers of awareness of Him and His works develop as I move through life. But at the end of the day “knowing” is a faith-based decision because God in His wisdom has decided not to make His existence so plain and obvious that it would be impossible for anyone not to believe. And that too, I think, is part of the “life is a school” series of lessons that we are all here to learn. After all, faith is a vital part of life, is it not? I have faith every time I drive. Faith that the cars coming toward me will obey the painted line in the middle of the road. It’s only a bit of paint and yet I don’t get nervous at all even when I calculate the kinetic energy if my faith proved false. So why not have faith in the most important question any of us have in this life? This question, if you think about it, is more important than choosing your partner and more important than your children. This is your life that is at stake here. And its regrettable to me that Satan is so very good at his slandering and deception that many people don’t even think about that, as they wile away their days on planet Earth.
0 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:40pm
Kea

Judges 11:29-40

Jephthah Burns His Daughter

, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”

When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy.

…her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin.
0 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:44pm
goldnkiwi

‘Judith’….motive of police and judiciary? I thought I was going to read about motive for murder.

Just like those thumb marks I do not need to know what they are to know what they are not.

So when many biased or unbiased people get pencil thin unparalleled lines going in the same approximate angle as Robin’s marks from reloading a .22 cartridge instead of thick smudgy parallel lines, then I might revisit all the rest of the evidence that says that Robin did not commit suicide.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:46pm
SPC

Ugly Truth, there is no evidence that any flood ever covered the earth.

None.

The flood myth source is Sumerian, in it is claimed that after each flood a new kingship came down from heaven. It just meant each time a flood destroyed a city alongside the river, they would build a new one. A new city kingship supposedly meant a new era of rule on the Earth. Note that they claimed each new kingship had heavenly mandate.

The fact that world history is unbroken across many millennia demonstrates there is no period when humanity was reduced down to one family in size. And certainly not between 3000 and 2000 BCE when rule of Egypt was unbroken.
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:48pm
SPC

Reid, no one slanders God better than those who claim that God mass murders human beings in floods and other acts of judgement. The idea that men should be broken to fearful obedience of authority or else suffer/die is what inspires the worst in human misrule. It is of a way adversarial to human life.
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:50pm
Kea

The bible is a vile book and it is incredible that we tolerate its followers in civilised society.

If someone did or commanded the things done in the bible, what sane person would consider them good, let alone an object of worship ?
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 3:59pm
UglyTruth

Ugly Truth, no the context was having their own national law or adopting the imperial law code of Hammurabi.

No, being subject to a legal code is not the same as adopting it. One implies consent, the other does not.
You wrote:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/07/general_debate_14_july_2013.html/comment-page-1#comment-1173133

Ugly Truth, I could add, the idea of a supreme law giver to a Jewish nation state came as a counterpoint to Jews being subject to the imperial law of Babylon (law code of Hammurabi).
0 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:01pm
holysheet

Many many years ago I was given a copy of the bible to read. I got to the part in genesis where god created the earth in 6 days, made adam and eve etc etc etc. Then I red on about A&E having 2 sons, I asked my parents where did we come from? They asked what do you mean? Well, being a farmers son and seeing the goings on of animals and all the female and male animal copulating, I assumed we were from the female side of this. So I asked them where did Kane and Abel get their wives from and thus continue on gods family tree. 52 years later I am still looking for the answer to this simple childs question.
So until my question is answered, why should I believe any of the other crap in the book of god.
3 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:05pm
Left Right and Centre

Judith 8:30 am I’ll get you running fast– meet me in person, that’ll do it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:09pm
kowtow

Holysheet applying a literalist approach to the Bible…….as such thicker than the pigshit he/ she /it grew up with.
0 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:09pm
Reid

Was Jesus good?

Who killed Jesus?

Why did God allow Jesus to die?

Was Jesus God?

If Jesus wasn’t God, why has his legend persisted when every other leader from those times has faded into history?
0 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:10pm
UglyTruth

Ugly Truth, there is no evidence that any flood ever covered the earth.

Except for the countless accounts from different cultures, eg the Hopi Indians:

“When people became corrupt and warlike a third time, Sotuknang guided the ones who had retained their wisdom to Spider Woman, who cut down giant reeds and sheltered the people in the hollow stems with a little water and food. Sotuknang caused a great flood with rain and waves, and the people floated in their reeds for a long time. Finally, they came to rest on a small piece of land, and Spider Woman unsealed their reeds and pulled them out by the tops of their heads.”

The fact that world history is unbroken across many millennia demonstrates there is no period when humanity was reduced down to one family in size.

All that means is that the story of Noah was from his local context, and didn’t describe other societies just as the other accounts don’t mention other survivors like Noah.
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:13pm
Left Right and Centre

hj 8:56 am A pet topic for me. Too right. The West ‘solved’ one problem and created another. Reduced infant mortality rates dramatically. The primitives kept on breeding like rabbits. Problem: easy to create people, hard to look after them properly.

First came the invention of farming. More humans. Then medical science. Look out!! A billion more people every few years? WOW!! That can’t continue forever. And even now, most humans alive lead a shitty impoverished existence. Alive for the hell of it. Time and resources cannot keep up with population explosion.
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:15pm
nasska

Reid

….”Faith that the cars coming toward me will obey the painted line in the middle of the road. It’s only a bit of paint and yet I don’t get nervous at all even when I calculate the kinetic energy if my faith proved false.”….

But what if you couldn’t see the line of paint? What if you couldn’t put your hand on it if you wished to feel its texture? What if someone said to you that there was a line of paint there & if you have faith in that line that you cannot see or feel you will be safe?

How would your nervous system react?
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:19pm
UglyTruth

So I asked them where did Kane and Abel get their wives from…

From the people who were created in chapter 1. Genesis is a chronological account, chapter 1 & 2 are accounts of separate events. Also, the Book of Jasher describes how Abel was killed with an iron implement, this implies that an agricultural society was already established before the time of Adam & Eve.
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:19pm
Left Right and Centre

gravedodger 9:09 am In sport honesty and fair play are optional. The players know the rules, and yet break them regardless. It’s not the official’s fault that the player breaks the rule and is sent off.

In rugby… it’s well known that players push the limits of the laws and try to get away with cheating as a deliberate ploy, part of a winning strategy.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:20pm
wat dabney

If Zeus wasn’t God, why has his legend persisted when every other leader from those times has faded into history?
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:20pm
Left Right and Centre

publicwatchdog 10:01 am Reid- who’s turn is it to take out the trash? I think it’s you this time, isn’t it buddy?
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:21pm
Left Right and Centre

Pauleastbay 9:16 am I’ll bet the officials are poor- they probably get paid SFA. That’s a harder job than it looks I reckon.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:24pm
UglyTruth

Who killed Jesus?

What better way to protect someone from harm than to induce the would-be killers into believing that they were successful?

And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
The Quran, Surah 4:157
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:26pm
Left Right and Centre

holysheet 10:34 am What’s the bottomline with TV ‘journalists’?

Does it make good TV.

They don’t really give a fuck about anything else. If it was all polite and lovey dovey and respectful… the moron echelon would switch off in a flash. Boring they’d say!! It’s theatre.. you’ve got to liven it up. So the TV interviewers are rude, pushy, obnoxious, talk over the top of guest, confrontational, scathing deathly serious tone of voice… talk to the guests like they’re evil kiddie-fiddlers or something. Like a domestic after someone’s infidelity. Attack! Attack! Attack! Shout down the evil-doer.

That’s NZ TV for you- it’s all very low class.

Bring back Mark Sainsbury.
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:41pm
Left Right and Centre

Kea 10:48 am

Western democratic countries are a tiny minority and shrinking.

One word: Asia

You’re right. Europe wiped infant mortality = 2 billion into 7 billion in nothing flat. A tiny minority after being outbred by primitives. It’s not shrinking so much as being dwarfed.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:46pm
SPC

Ugly Truth, as no one culture covered the earth, were all local – cultural myth can and does not provide evidence for a worldwide flood. So it is unsurprising that there is no archaeological evidence for a worldwide flood.

Yet the bible says it was a worldwide flood and that the ark included all species two by two to explain why more than humans survived it.

Basically any Jew educated as to the history of the wider world (Egypt and Mesopotamia) knew the flood story was not true as human society history was unbroken across the flood period era. Only those ignorant of the wider world and its history could believe the bible account.
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:48pm
Left Right and Centre

Yvette 11:33 am Penny is a fuckhead mental case beyond help. Trying is the first step to failure.

Sometimes you’re just trying to turn a tiger into a vegetarian. She’s like one of those people that think they’re the second coming of jesus or can hear voices telling them trust no-one…. especially not Elvis hiding over in the corner.
3 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:54pm
Left Right and Centre

Pauleastbay 9:21 am Yeah- you wouldn’t wanna accidentally win a title first up after calling it a three year project.

Of course it’s a three year project. Built in excuse for mediocrity straight away. Genius!! Two free hits before the knives get sharpened. Well, no-one can do any worse than the last ten seasons of unrestrained bollocks.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 4:58pm
Kea

Holysheet applying a literalist approach to the Bible…….as such thicker than the pigshit he/ she /it grew up with.

kowtow, just as you apply a literalist approach when it says something you are comfortable with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK7P7uZFf5o
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 5:01pm
SPC

Ugly Truth, iron age culture is post 2000BCE, over 2000 years after the postulated time of the bible account of Cain and Abel. So, the Book of Jasher is not reliable.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 5:04pm
bereal

Now for a very small point.

Has anyone else noted that whenever TV1 crosses to an on the spot reporter, the first
word of the answer to the follow up question from the anchor is always, “Look,…..”

O.K. i know, i should get a life.

i guess it’s better than ,’Listen….”
2 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 5:15pm
calendar girl

Penny Bright: “This ongoing persecution of Vince Siemer, in my opinion, NZ’s foremost ‘whistleblower’ against judicial corruption, makes me ashamed to be a New Zealander.”

There’s a simple solution to that, Penny. You don’t have to be a New Zealander. Nobody forces you to remain one.

Among other options that may be available to you, New Zealanders enjoy free entry into Australia – subject to being of good character, law-abiding, etc. Providing you don’t have a criminal record, you too can enter Australia, then (I suggest) contact New Zealand’s Internal Affairs requesting formally revocation of your NZ citizenship – returning your NZ passport, of course, having applied “CANCELLED” stamps to each page. After the standard qualifying period of Australian residency (perhaps four years?) you can apply for Australian citizenship and obtain a “bright” new Australian passport. Simple, really, you can soon become a proud Australian instead of an ashamed New Zealand one. Such opportunities for self-improvement on your part must seem irresistible.

There are only a couple of qualifications to all this on which you should reflect. The first relates to whether or not, on entering Australia, you can point to a clean criminal record. A minor misdemeanour or two might not prove particularly significant, as long as you have not embarked on a programme of deliberate defiance of legal authority, vandalism, theft, refusing to pay state or local authority taxes, or like anti-social behaviour. The second would arise only if, in your adopted “homeland” of which you felt so proud, you engaged consciously in criminal activity of the types just mentioned. Such behaviour would result inevitably, on conviction, in your being deported summarily to New Zealand. Once more you would feel morally sullied and constrained by the shame that you would feel at being a New Zealander.

So life is full of choices, Penny. Don’t persist in living with the debilitating shame that is dragging you to ever-lower depths of despair. Turn your back on the glittering prize of the Auckland Mayoralty, now so close to your reach. Set your sights on glorious Australian nationality, a status that you will grace conspicuously with your your charm, reason, tact and intellect. Good luck to you.
9 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 5:18pm
Left Right and Centre

calendar girl 5:18 pm Fuck man- you gave her five paragraphs of the undeserved attention she craves. You’ll only encourage the bitch.
3 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 5:24pm
UglyTruth

Ugly Truth, iron age culture is post 2000BCE, over 2000 years after the postulated time of the bible account of Cain and Abel. So, the Book of Jasher is not reliable.

Non sequitur. Iron artifacts dating back to the fifth millennium BC have been found in Iran by the archeologists.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-ancient-history/iron-age-map.html
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 5:27pm
UglyTruth

Ugly Truth, as no one culture covered the earth, were all local – cultural myth can and does not provide evidence for a worldwide flood.

Another non sequitur. Evidence can take pretty much any form so long as it is factual and relevant. You don’t get to reject evidence based on arbitrary criteria.
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 5:31pm
bereal

The way everyone goes apeshit when some white powder is found in a letter to a
politician in New Zealand you would think that there was a huge cottage industry
manufacturing anthrax spores here.

Same as how we call in the army bomb squad whenever a “suspicious package’ is found.

Fukin laughble if it wasn’t so sad.

Ernie Abbot was the last victim of a bomb, when was that again ?
He was the first and last case, true ?

And the lst and last time anyone in NZ recieved a letter containing anthrax was…….when ?

If you were a flea politician in NZ in your death throes your last ditch attempt to garner
some newstime/sympathy, you send yourself a letter containing white powder.

Works everytime a treat.
2 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 5:39pm
SPC

Ugly Truth, hearsay, whether in cultural myth or not, is not evidence. It is certainly not a fact.

As there are no iron artifacts but in Iran at that time, and not afterwards again for thousands of years – are you claiming that the report in one writing proves that Cain and Abel were Persians who lived at that time?
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 5:40pm
Left Right and Centre

bereal 5:15 pm I think I know exactly what you mean-

You get the cross- and they’ve all been to the ‘Miriama Kamo’ school of ‘connecting with the viewer’ ‘high performance art’. They’re trying to be the viewer and the messenger instead of just the messenger. They’re not a part of the story. They don’t have anything personally invested in what they’re reporting on. But that’s how they try to come across. As if it means a particularly great deal to them. It’s all acting, it’s all bullshit. It’s all for ratings. They’re weird. It’s fake, it’s insincere, it’s painful. They’re not fooling anyone with one and a bit braincells to kiss each other and instead they are what they are in trying all of this nonsense weirdness…. irritating top drawer twats.
0 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 5:45pm
bereal

Jeez. i hope Kea is O.K.

It’s almost an hour now and no new insightfull comment.
0 5
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 5:57pm
UglyTruth

As there are no iron artifacts but in Iran at that time, and not afterwards again for thousands of years …

What makes you say that?
0 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 6:10pm
Left Right and Centre

hmmokrightitis 10:25 am I don’t want to read a post by you with the word ‘ultra’ in it.

I looked at the times for the Tarawera ultra marathon… so for a runner to clock 100kms *on the weekend*… you know.. just a wee training run… that would take how long? Because the roadrunners can crack 100kms in 9-10 hours. So… *on the weekend* you’d have to be crackin along at *race pace*… which would make a person an elite runner going nuts on race day… or some fuckwit that spends 13-16 hours at least of one day to cover 100kms for a ‘training run’. So which one is it man? No-one likes blowhards that are full of shit or stretch the truth.

I like runners- they’re great. I just don’t like blowhard runners. Why one of the elites would be on KB I don’t know. So… did ya finish the 100kms…. and how long did that take? The elite runners take 8-12 hours. So…*on a weekend* you spent a minimum 12 hours running 100kms? Or did ya power through it at 10km/h like an elite runner… which would still take ten fucking hours… to me something doesn’t add up.

Oh, and at almost 50 too. That’s all the more impressive.

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/06/did_you_know_the_greens_want_to_ban_most_food_advertising_on_tv.html#comments

hmmokrightitis June 18th, 2013 at 10:50 am

Spending an entire waking day jogging…. um yeah. I couldn’t give a fuck what people do- I do hate suspiciously tall stories however. That’s the internet for ya. Zero credibility.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 6:18pm
Left Right and Centre

Oh yeah- running off excesses- what a joke. Clocking up 100s of kms a week and a fish finger burger, two drinks and one stinking bowl of ice cream is ‘excessive’ for an ultra runner? Fucking hell mate- what the hell is wrong with you? You’d burn that shit off in 20kms or something.

That’s not even excessive for someone for whom their only form of exercise is farting as loudly as possible…. what on earth is going on people??
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 6:26pm
RF

Manolo. 2.23pm. Surely someone has the stats for the number of Maori children under the age of 5 years who have been murdered by family members in the last 10 years. It would be interesting to compare this with the number of white children murdered under similar circumstances.

I suspect this would have the weak hand wringers in a frenzy.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 6:42pm
hj

Been doing a bit of reading on weather tightness.

The Building Act 1991, passed by Jim Bolger’s Fourth National Government, which came into effect about 1994, changed controls and standards. In addition, many developers, builders and architects knowingly or carelessly constructed buildings with numerous faults and short-cuts. An architectural design trends towards Mediterranean-style flat roofs (a traditional dry-climate design), low-angle monopitch roofs and buildings without eaves also factored in.[2] Numerous local authorities failed in their inspection duties, and now share significant financial responsibilities with the builders (which in many cases have closed or otherwise removed themselves from liability) and the owners.[3] Court cases have generally assigned around one third of the financial responsibility to local authorities.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaky_homes_crisis
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 6:49pm
bereal

Been for a walk around downtown Auckland recently ?

What a disgrace for the whole country.

Friday 12th July 9.00am i had cause to be there for the first time in years.

Both doorways by the Downtown McDonalds had a beggar, handwritten notes asking for
donations of change to buy food. (both beggars about 20/30 years old)

Virtually every unused doorway around Customs Street, Gore Street, Brittomart, had either a beggar
or a beggars cardboard bed and their discarded liquor bottles lying there.

Mounds of trash waiting to be collected every which way you looked.

While waiting for my breakfast in the queue at downtown McDonalds i was so embarrased
to hear American accents, tourists i guessed, off a tour boat, getting their first impression of Auckland.

What a world of contrast to my observations in downtown Melbourne last week. There the streets were clean,
police officers were on patrol, no rubbish, no beggars.

WTF ?
3 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 7:04pm
Reid

Sadly bereal this is the predictable outcome of the wrap around service we now offer all and sundry courtesy of the lefty hand wringers who get quite surprised when human nature turns around and takes complete advantage of their child-like naivity.

If only lefties understood that kindness actually involves a component of self-help, as in, sure, we’ll help you out, but we’re not picking you up and carrying you through life, you’ve got to walk through it on your own two feet, as well.

But the lefties don’t get that latter component of the kindness equation possibly because everytime they think of the poor and dispossessed they go all weepy and waily and wring their hands and rend their clothes with the sheer tragedy of the whole affair.

Which is why as soon as anyone dares to mention anything along the “walk on your own two feet” line they round angrily upon them and almost shout, “don’t you understand how difficult it is for them? Don’t you understand the magnitude of their helplessness?”

It’s quite annoying and makes me want to grab them by the arms and slap them just like you do to a hysterical raver until they understand that the bit they’re pointing out to you so vehemently isn’t in fact the whole story it’s only part of it and if that’s all you ever focus on, why human nature will simply turn these people into an army of selfish bludgers who think that life, in the form of we taxpayers, not only owes them a living but we owe them happiness as well, because apparently, we’re the ones who are responsible for their wretched crapulence, they didn’t have anything to do with it, and they know this because their social worker told them.

Welcome to Aotearoa in the 21st century. Isn’t it wonderful.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 7:27pm
big bruv

A reminder to all who detest the union movement that tomorrow is the anniversary of the total and utter defeat suffered by the scum union movement at the 1951 Waterfront strike.

It is a day that all free thinking Kiwis should celebrate.
4 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 7:32pm
Kea

Sadly bereal this is the predictable outcome of the wrap around service we now offer all and sundry courtesy of the lefty hand wringers who get quite surprised when human nature turns around and takes complete advantage of their child-like naivity.

Yet earlier today the same guy told us it was SATAN. Now it is ” lefty hand wringers”
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 7:50pm
bereal

How many children have to be beaten to death in New Zealand ?

We know that the poor sods who get killed are sprogs produced by a slag who lives
with a boyfriend who is not the father.

Charge the mother, regardless.
Hold the mother responsible.
Make the mother more afraid of the consequenses of the law than they are of the bash from the
boyfriend.
Q E D

If you are the mother of a child who is beaten to death, the onus should be on you to show how you are
not responsible for not protecting your child.

Then we may make some headway.
3 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 7:55pm
nasska

It’s never too late to tell somebody how much you love them.

Unless you’ve just come home drunk at 3 a.m.
4 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 8:00pm
bhudson

It is a day that all free thinking Kiwis should celebrate.

Have you considered emailing Jamie Lee-Ross and suggesting he enter a Private Member’s Bill into the ballot that makes the 15th July a public holiday?

I seem to recall a number of people saying some months ago that the gap between Queen’s Birthday and Labour Day was too long.

It might add a bit of yin to that later yang as well.

“Balance, Grasshopper”
3 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 8:00pm
nasska

Interesting proposal Bereal. Unlikely it would fly in a country where a woman’s right to shack up with any violent no hoper trumps the safety of her kids.

But certainly after a few tear jerking court cases we might see a few of the slags displaying some of the maternal instincts we are told women have oozing from their beings.
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 8:04pm
Kea

Charge the mother, regardless.
Hold the mother responsible.
Make the mother more afraid of the consequenses of the law than they are of the bash from the
boyfriend.
Q E D

bereal, no need for any of that fuss. If we want to stop this we simply need to stop paying our lazy promiscuous women to have ~~meal tickets~~ kids they don’t want.We are sponsoring people to live this way.

The cost of the benefit is nothing. The real cost is in breeding a massive useless underclass that relies on numerous social services and government agencies, plus the victims of crime and general social decay that they bring.
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 8:21pm
Left Right and Centre

For anyone who likes a no bullcrap runner’s diary entry alternative to hmmokrightitis’s ‘running as meditation and enlightenment’ bollocks…here it is:

July 14 2013. Run. !0KM. Start: 6:40pm. total time: 52’04” (13’00” @ 2.5km, 25’12” @ 5km, 40’56” @ 7.5km)

Average speed: 11.52km/h. 10.44km/h into the wind. 12.85km/h with the wind.

Post run weight = 80.9kg.

60-70km/h southerly.

Gear: plastic bag singlet, t shirt, jersey. Trackpants. Hat. Two pairs gloves mittens over the top. Lap two ditched jersey and mittens having warmed up.

Conditions: Bad. Means more spitting and hoicking, which on a good day is minimal. Into wind turn head 180 degrees. Bodily fluid flys backwards in a straight line along a horizontal trajectory for as far as you can follow it. System reacts by producing snot which ‘dragons’ out of both nostrils. Nowhere to put it.. it just has to sit there or give the nostrils a blast. Either way it’s streaming out endlessly.

Wearing lots of layers is great until you turn around with the wind now at your back. Now with no air conditioning, the protective layers become a sauna. That’s why I ditched the jersey after one lap… safe enough decision.

The good part was getting to 7.5km mark and turning with 19 minutes to finish inside my cut-off of 60 mins for 10kms. Game over, party time, and still had some gas in the tank. With about 1.3kms left and 60+km/h winds at my back and feeling good I opened up the taps a bit and ripped a 4’03” last km. I thought I might as well finish the run at 11km/h+ average instead of 10. Why not?

Was that good fun? What, into the fucking wind? You’re having me on mate. It was shithouse. Good for burning calories and that’s about fucking it. Makes you feel good the rest of the time. Of course it fucking does- the rest of the time you’re thankful you’re not out running… haha.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 8:25pm
bereal

It would fly.
The slag mother collects the Dpb.
make it known that….
from now on that comes with a responsibility.

You, you slag, are the carer with the responsibility. You will be held responsible.
Your sprog/mealticket is beaten to death, you are responsible unless you can prove
that you are not.

Bring some of these slags to Justice.
Make them pay. Give a few of them sentences to make their eyes water.
Publicise the results.

Make these slags aware they will be held to account.
Watch how things change then.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 8:25pm
Kea

In just four decades, American blacks killed almost as many Whites as were killed in WWII, four times as many Whites as were killed in Vietnam, and 60 times as many Whites as were killed in 911 or Iraq

33 million blacks IN AMERICA caused 800,000 EXTRA murders = 24,242 American lives per million blacks

1,200 million Muslims 10,000 miles away caused 4,000 American deaths = 3.33 American lives per million Muslims

American blacks are 7,280 TIMES more deadly to American lives than all 1.2 billion Muslims worldwide, combined

http://www.fathersmanifesto.net/genocide.htm
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 8:30pm
nasska

Religion is a load of cobblers. Instance #76392. 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zy33gxks9fh6/islam-is-freedomsm.jpg
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 8:38pm
bhudson

@Kea,

I’d love to respond to that cherry picking nonsense, but there is another following behind me who is much larger and more gratifying. You should wait for them.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 8:38pm
hmmokrightitis

I couldn’t possibly compete with your erudite tales LRaC, Im sure all that time behind the large wheel helps, right?

My two fav ultra’s are Kepler and Tarawera. Every so often, when Im fit enough, I will do an over nighter with friends, or by myself. Last one was in CHC with a trail goddess who can out run me easily but likes company. Depending on the trail, 100k’s takes me between 12 and 16 hours, so Im not fast even slightly, never have nor will be.

And as Ive said before, I do it because I love it. If I was here to toot my horn, dont you think it odd that Im slow, old, and use a non de plume? I run because I love it, not because I need to show off to failed bus drivers 🙂
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 8:44pm
Kea

bhudson , yeah I thought it would make you squirm a bit. 🙂
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 14, 2013 8:47pm

More comments:

‹
1
2
3
›

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« Hard data for education

No risk without reward »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 37.4K other subscribers

Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

More lawlessness from National
No Right Turn
Shock & Surprise: Lawyers oppose removal of lawyers' gravy train
Not PC
Thankfully we said nope to dope
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
Daily review 15/11/2024
The Standard
Proposals to pay to enter national parks are included in DOC discussion papers which remind us of Treaty obligations
Point of Order
MEDIAWATCH: Willie Jackson’s fiery speech that had Gallery cheering
The Daily Blog
Government only partially adheres to Waitangi Tribunal order, as tensions heat up
No Minister
Sowell says
Hompaddock
Marsden Fund goes even more woke
Utopia
A NEW DEGREE COURSE FOR MASSEY
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
A Day of Reckoning
NZCPR
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Pretty (il)legal
Croaking Cassandra
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

Facebook
Twitter
FourSquare
Instagram
LinkedIn
Google+

Archives
Disclosure Statement
Editorial Policy
Privacy Policy
Complaints Policy
Comments Policy

Design by cre8d