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June 28, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 28 June 2013

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Dennis Horne

Dedicated to Baniacs and Trace-Gazeurs

There was an old blowhard called flipper
Who was all at sea in a clipper
So he bullied and blustered
Arguments cut not the mustard
‘Cos his poor mind was all a hither and dither.
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June 28, 2013 8:02am
kowtow

Here’s one the environmentalists can clock up to their irrational lust for “sustainable ,clean energy”.Rare bird killed by wing turbine.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/10146081/Twitchers-flocking-to-see-rare-bird-saw-it-killed-by-wind-turbine.html
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June 28, 2013 8:07am
graham

The Greens have a new friend – John Banks!

John Banks is making a stand against rebelling against the Psychoactive Substances bill because it doesn’t rule out using animals to test party pills. Apparently the bill says animals must not be used to test them if there are “suitable alternatives” available, but it doesn’t rule it out.

Mojo Mathers is going to try to amend the bill during the committee stage and insert a clause that forbids animal testing. Banksie says he’ll support her amendment, which I imagine will make it difficult for the Government to turn down. Anybody know if the Government would have the numbers without Banks?
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June 28, 2013 8:09am
Pete George

Banks went overboard a bit, making numerous interjections and calling Peter Dunne a puppy hater. According to other MPs though Banks has taken aim at the wrong target.

Banks calls Dunne “puppy-hater” on Psychotic Substances Bill

It looks like Banks is the only MP planning on opposing then Psychotic Substances Bill.
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June 28, 2013 8:12am
Harriet

Kea#
“…..Now days Labour represents ever smaller minority interests. They rush around labeling select groups as “victims”, which is the highest accolade the left can give…..”

Except for the unborn that is.

Dear Leader Shearer made his name amongst the evil butchers of Africa, yet the most dangerous place on earth is still the womb.

Maybe he should just go and retire in that village that Shrillary Clinton speaks so highly of – seeming that his lordship doesn’t care too much about his village raising decent minded young kiwi woman that is. 😎
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June 28, 2013 8:19am
Scott Chris

Not sure that Dunne would be a puppy hater. It’s just that he hasn’t been lobbied by the Animal Rightists so he just doesn’t give a toss.
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June 28, 2013 8:26am
Harriet

We await the presence of Judith:

Who will again today defend every murderer in the country and denounce the police at every opportunity.

Don’t be silly now Judith. 😎
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June 28, 2013 8:26am
graham

John Banks calls Peter Dunne a puppy-hater.

Peter Dunne calls John Banks an idiot.

Sounds like a match made in heaven!
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June 28, 2013 8:29am
Griff

kowtow
A bird that in the context of our own native species is neither rare or endangered.
Flys into a wind mill in England………………
Slow day for news?
http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/speciesfactsheet.php?id=1750
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June 28, 2013 8:30am
doggone7

It looks like Banks is the only MP planning on opposing the Psychotic Substances Bill…

As an observer of Mr Banks’ evolution as a politician for many years, to what he has demonstrated in the last couple of years, I find this notion amusing.
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June 28, 2013 8:30am
kowtow

No not a slow news day at all.

Politicians in thrall to subsidies and the looney green lobby are running Britain into the ground.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10145803/Risk-of-UK-blackouts-has-tripled-in-a-year-Ofgem-warns.html
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June 28, 2013 8:33am
Paulus

Can anybody confirm that the Commercial arms of the Waitangi Settlements, e.g. Ngai Tahu and Tainui, do not pay tax on their commercial businesses, like everybody else.
It is estimated that Maori Assets are now something to the order of $49,000,000,000.
The earnings on that should attract substantial tax.
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June 28, 2013 8:35am
bhudson

…Peter Dunne, said inquiry head David Henry detailed to him the movements of Fairfax journalist Andrea Vance in and out of the parliamentary precinct.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8853155/Journalists-movements-tracked-by-leak-inquiry

Come on now, we have every reason to suspect that Dunne tracked the same. And he wants to raise his antics again in the public eye?

When in a hole…
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June 28, 2013 8:43am
KiwiGreg

“It is estimated that Maori Assets are now something to the order of $49,000,000,000.”

By whom?? Sounds absurdly high to me.

Maori incorporations pay tax, it used to be at 15%, someone more current than I can correct.
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June 28, 2013 8:45am
kowtow

Paulus

Ngai Tahu not paying tax is one of the big stories that the Aotearoa New Zealand MSM refuses to tackle. For a couple of reasons,primarily I suspect the MSM are happy for them not to and perhaps fear of being accused of racism.

Ngai Tahu is a charity. It pays it’s directors massive salaries but does not pay it’s beneficiaries huge amounts…..it can argue the dosh has to last a long time,which is fair enough ,but then what of the big salaries to the directors of a “charity” that as you point out has commercial arms.

Our racist media needs to do more on this as it is taxpayer money underpinning the whole venture. And Ngai Tahu have a perpetual top up clause to get more money in future settlements……..who wrote that one in?
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June 28, 2013 8:47am
Pete George

Not sure that Dunne would be a puppy hater. It’s just that he hasn’t been lobbied by the Animal Rightists so he just doesn’t give a toss.
Wrong. It’s obvious from what Dunne has said and done, backed up by what Kevin Hague said in parliament yesterday, that he has lobbied strongly for minimising animal tesing.

The fact is that the previous Associate Minister of Health encouraged people to make submissions about animal testing.

And also new Associate Health Minister Todd McClay:

Mr Dunne asked that committee for advice on non-animal tests, clearly articulating his strong preference for a regime that excluded animal testing.

So once again Scott Chris you’re making shit up to smear. Your agenda is obvious.
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June 28, 2013 8:57am
Pete George

bhudson – that’s the first I’ve heard about that, but it’s not a good look if Parliament’s big brother is tracking the movements of journalists.

It’s a very disturbing precedent.

And I’d expect Dunne will get a lot of suport from journalists for speaking up about it.

Very ironic that an inquiry into a leak about illegal spying itself resorts to very dubious accessing of spy data.
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June 28, 2013 9:00am
Jimbob

It was great theatre last night on Campbell live, the deputy police guy Malcolm Burgess spinning furiously the police’s latest fantasy on the Bain case. The marks on Robin’s thumb is evidently cuts doing the roof. The presentation was delivered with the puppy eyes and the soft voice to beg people to believe him.
This latest evidence , along with the fact that blood was found up the barrel of the murder weapon, meaning the last shot fired from the gun was a contact shot. Robin being the last person to be shot, well the maths is simple. You can claim all sorts of stuff with all the other evidence, but you can not change these very compelling facts.
The rest is history.
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June 28, 2013 9:03am
Chuck Bird

Home D for woman’s sex abuse of boy, 13 by AARON LEAMAN

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8852046/Home-D-for-womans-sex-abuse-of-boy-13

If a man in his 30s has sex with a 13 year old girl he would be in jail. This case comes after the female paedophile who seduced an 11 year old and got pregnant as a result.
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June 28, 2013 9:10am
Scott Chris

bhudson – regarding the tracking of Andrea Vances movements…

I suspect her parliamentry swipe card belongs to the government, so presumably there was some legalese she would have been required to sign in obtaining the use card.

No doubt Dunne has poured over this blurb and identified another smoke-screen.
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June 28, 2013 9:10am
lilman

Dunne is a whore of the majority party.
Hes vain and now shown as shallow and incompetent.
Hope his wife kicks his arse good and proper.
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June 28, 2013 9:19am
Pete George

Interesting to see the authoritarians who think that Parliament’s big brother should be able to watch over the movements of journalists. And think that Parliament’s big brother should be able to demand to see journalist’s private communications.
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June 28, 2013 9:20am
graham

So Andrea Vance’s movements were tracked, via her swipe card, in relation to an on-going enquiry?

So what? How is this news?

It’s not “Big Brother” unless they start routinely tracking and analysing the movements of ALL journalists, and it is not a “very disturbing precedent”. It’s common sense.

I work for a large company where entry to every office and building is controlled by swipe card. I’ve received phone calls from the security operations centre when they’ve noticed a “door open” alarm and I’ve been through that door. Some years ago I was asked to account for my presence at a site early in the morning around the same time some equipment went missing from that site.

CCTV images are used to try and work out people’s movements when a crime has been committed.

None of this is unexpected or disturbing. It only becomes an issue when it is being done on a regular basis without good cause.

And I’d expect Dunne will get
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June 28, 2013 9:20am
Scott Chris

lobbied strongly for minimising animal tesing

Pfft. No doubt the definition of ‘minimising’ in that context is suitably vague. Perhaps that is what Banks is banging on about.
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June 28, 2013 9:21am
iMP

So, its looking like Edward Snowden (NSA whistle-blower) may have been a plant?

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/06/28/was-edward-snowden-actually-a-plant/
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June 28, 2013 9:23am
graham

Sorry, ran out of time to edit. I have no idea where the last line “And I’d expect Dunne will get” came from …

If the ability exists to track a person’s movements based on their use of a privileged access card, surely you would expect that when a good and proper reason arises where there is a need to know where a person has been, the appropriate people with the appropriate authority should be entitled to use that ability. As long as they have the correct authority, and a justifiable reason, it is not unexpected or disturbing.

It becomes an issue when it is being done on a regular basis without good cause, by people without authority. As pointed out by someone else, surely anybody who is issued a parliamentary access card would have to agree to certain terms and conditions, one of which I would imagine is that their access records may be reviewed if it is deemed appropriate and the correct authority is in place.
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June 28, 2013 9:29am
Dennis Horne

@Scott Chris. Please accept an apology from me for losing my temper recently. I enjoy your comments. I’m leaving KB now. It’s addictive and bad for my health. Pray not for me!
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June 28, 2013 9:34am
dime

lol is peter dunne in self destruct mode?

he now hates puppies too? haha

is he trying to out do gareth?

GM “I hate cats”
Dung “pussy. i hate PUPPIES”
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June 28, 2013 9:37am
Scott Chris

Dennis, likewise. You are plainly an intelligent man.

Stick around – duelling is fun.
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June 28, 2013 9:37am
Pete George

Good cause?

Is suspicion of a leak a good enough cause to demand to see a journalist’s communications? A good enough cause to demand to get movement tyracking metadata?

Leaks are as common as Mallard points of order.

I don’t think many journalists would be happy to go down that road. And neither those who like to leak.

Should the comunications of Winston Peters be demanded and publicised to try and determine who leaked to him?

Should the communications of Patrick Gower be demanded and publicised to see who in Labour has just leaked plans for a coup to him?
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June 28, 2013 9:42am
hj

O’Regan’s Nazi sympathiser remark sparks complaint

Thursday, 27 June 2013, 10:24 am
Press Release: Independent Constitutional Review Panel
PRESS STATEMENT – immediate release

O’Regan’s Nazi sympathiser remark sparks complaint

Dismay at Sir Tipene O’Regan’s “Nazi sympathiser” remark last week prompted the Independent Constitutional Review Panel to write an open letter to Deputy Prime Minister Bill English (copy attached).

Sir Tipene, the co-chair of the official Constitutional Advisory Panel grouped, lumped together “those who wish to reverse Maori influence” with “extremist groups” and “Nazi sympathisers”, in a recent speech in Dunedin marking the Maori New Year.

David Round, who chairs the independent panel, said that members of the government’s advisory group were required to be “seen as fair and open to a range of views”.

“Yet here is the panel’s co-chair announcing that all those opposing continued further Maori influence are next door to Nazi sympathisers,” Mr Round said.

“O’Regan’s ‘extremists’ were simply ordinary decent New Zealanders whose opinions have the misfortune to differ from those of the panel’s co-chair and not a few of his colleagues, who therefore intend to dismiss them without a moment’s consideration,” he said.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1306/S00343/oregans-nazi-sympathiser-remark-sparks-complaint.htm
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June 28, 2013 9:52am
graham

“Is suspicion of a leak a good enough cause to demand to see a journalist’s communications?”

Possibly not. But then I did not say anything about that, and I do not know why you have introduced this red herring.

“A good enough cause to demand to get movement tyracking metadata?”

Not sure what “movement tracking metadata” is, but I assume you mean access records. So, is suspicion of a leak a good enough cause to investigate the access records of those under suspicion? Yes, of course. It is part of gathering evidence, as a good investigation should do.
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June 28, 2013 9:55am
Pete George

Once again I think some people’s judgement is clouded by the Dunne dissing obsession. This is a much bigger and wider issue than just him.

@dpfdpf

Parliamentary Service should not have released @avancenz swipe card details without a warrant. Journalists are not employees.

@felixmarwick

I wonder if MPs are now worried about the swipe access they need to get to the press gallery from the whips corridor. It’s on the PS record

‏@KevinHague

i would like to know who made the decision to compile and release this information, what advice they had and under what law

No Right Turn

The Prime Minister says it was nothing to do with him. So who authorised it? Because I can’t imagine Parliamentary Services handing out this information without someone telling them to.

Meanwhile, it raises a host of deeply unpleasant questions. Was the Speaker consulted? If not, it seems like a prima facie breach of Parliamentary privilege. Do they spy on other journalists? Their backbenchers? The opposition? And most importantly, did they get GCSB to track Vance’s movements outside Parliament using her cellphone? GCSB remember does not regard such spying using metadata as being outlawed by their legislation, and both Kitteridge and their “Inspector-General” basically gave a green light to doing so domesticly. And yet we’ve just had the perfect demonstration of how intrusive and powerful it is, and why it needs to be subject to judicial scrutiny and conduct only with a warrant: because otherwise, we’re letting those in power spy on everything we do.

By spying on a journalist in Parliament, the Key government has once again abused our democracy. Journalists are not some interlopers in the parliamentary precinct, to be treated like burglars there to steal the family silver. They are a vital part of the democratic process, and their communications with politicians, whether government or opposition, ought to be given the highest degree of protection.

http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2013/06/spying-on-journalists.html

But if you want to keep Dunne as part of the issue – should he have raised this?
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June 28, 2013 9:58am
PTM

PG @ 9:42
Surely if a journalist who has privileged access (greater than I do as a citizen) uses that access to collude with an MP of any persuasion to gain access to classified or restricted documents, then in my mind, that is a questionably illegal act.
Tracing the source of the access through the “misuse” of that privilege is precisely what should have happened. Why else is there a need for the access security system to be in place?
Using the argument that it is ok because others act similarly and get away with it is a nonsense argument. Other people exceed the speed limit and get away with it. Does that mean that next time I get stopped by the Police for speeding, I can use the same argument as you have presented?
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June 28, 2013 10:00am
Fletch

Looks like domestic terrorist Bill Ayers was indeed the person who ghost authored Barack Obama’s book, ‘Dreams From My Father’.
He has admitted it several times, including in the video interview at the link.

http://patdollard.com/2013/06/bill-ayers-toys-again-with-authorship-of-obama-bio-yes-i-wrote-that-it-took-me-about-4-months/
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June 28, 2013 10:01am
Pete George

PTM – I’m not aware of any claim that Andrea Vance acted illegally.

I’m not aware of any claim that journalists seeking information from politicians is illegal.
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June 28, 2013 10:04am
graham

The basic question here is surely, should an official inquiry be permitted to gather information about people as it relates to that inquiry? I would have thought the answer to that is yes.

Dissect it a bit more. Exactly what information should that inquiry be permitted to gather? The answer must be, information that is relevant to that inquiry.

Are the whereabouts of a person who that inquiry is interested in relevant? I would have thought so.

If any of our legal experts can advise on the legality of this I would be interested to hear.
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June 28, 2013 10:08am
PTM

Pete George
I am sure that the handing over of restricted documentation is not something that is ok. It seems to be a problem for Snowden and Julian Assange. I don’t see how you can argue that leaking of restricted or sensitive information is anything but questionably illegal.
Otherwise, why the fuss?
Regarding the reporter receiving the information, how does that differ from a person receiving stolen goods?
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June 28, 2013 10:26am
wikiriwhis business

Proof That The Swine Flu Epidemic Was Man Made and Intentional

By: Sarah Cain

The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office has a patent for, ‘Genetically Engineered Swine Influenza Virus and Uses Thereof‘ (patent #8124101). It was filed in 2005 for approval. They waited until the patent was finally approved in January of 2009 before unleashing the virus into the wild. In other words, the makers of the swine flu vaccine began the lengthy patenting process long before the swine flu supposedly existed, which means that the outbreak was no accident, and the virus is clearly not natural.

http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/2013/06/27/proof-that-the-swine-flu-epidemic-was-man-made-and-intentional/
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June 28, 2013 10:30am
dime

HUNTSVILLE, TX—Marking a notable milestone in the history of capital punishment in the United States, the state of Texas executed its 393rd guilty prisoner Wednesday with the death of 52-year-old convicted murderer Kimberly McCarthy by lethal injection. “Yesterday, the Texas Department of Criminal Justice executed its 500th inmate since the state reinstated capital punishment in 1982, and the 393rd one who was proven to have committed the crime of murder beyond a reasonable doubt,” said U.S. Deputy Attorney General James Cole at a press briefing this afternoon, adding that the Texas legal system had, in this particular instance, “definitely confirmed” that McCarthy killed her 71-year-old neighbor in 1997. “As of today, Texas leads all states with its 500 total executions, 393 of whom were guilty individuals, and 98 executions of prisoners who they’re fairly certain were guilty.” Cole noted, however, that Texas was tied with Florida for the most executions that, in retrospect, they weren’t all that sure about, with nine apiec

heh the onion cracks me up.

PETE GEORGE – THIS IS SATIRE. PLEASE DONT TAKE THIS AS REAL NEWS OR A SMEAR ON ANYONES GOOD NAME.
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June 28, 2013 10:32am
Pete George

@GraemeEdgeler

@althecat @PeterDunneMP @norightturnnz @robhosking Parliamentary Service is subject to the Privacy Act so @avancenz can complain under that.

@robhosking

EDGELER, QC; we salute you. 50-odd Privacy Act requests being written NOW.
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June 28, 2013 10:35am
wikiriwhis business

New video about Obama’s deadly drone war http://bit.ly/17mcIfC #Love
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June 28, 2013 10:52am
joana

Spelling guys..It is the psychoactive substances bill.. These substances may make people go psychotic but that is not the name of the bill.
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June 28, 2013 10:54am
Manolo

“Sir” Tipene O’Regan….. a brazen parasite.
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June 28, 2013 10:56am
Pete George

Are some of New Zealand’s spies and public servants out of control? It looks like Parliamentary Services have been spying on a journalist, possibly illegally.

How much have the GCSB been involved?

Were leaks to Winston Peters aimed at putting further pressure on Dunne to reveal information and admit guilt?

Parliamentary Services spying on journalists
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June 28, 2013 11:34am
graham

I hardly think that an official enquiry into a leak accessing pertinent and relevant swipe card records is evidence of “spies out of control”.

As I related previously, I work for a large company where entry to every office and building is controlled by swipe card. And I have previously had my movements checked and been asked about them in situations where the security operations centre believed it was justified.

I cannot see why journalists should expect their access around Parliament to not be subject to scrutiny. If there is an official inquiry, it is obvious that they will need to gather pertinent information about people as it relates to that inquiry. And it is equally obvious that the the whereabouts of a person on the “business premises” who that inquiry is interested in, are relevant.

There is a big difference between gathering information about the movements of a person, and going through their private emails and communications.

I would be more concerned that Henry revealed this information to Dunne. THAT is a matter for concern, in my opinion. If the enquiry gathers information on an individual, it should not be revealing that information to anybody else.
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June 28, 2013 11:53am
Pete George

Dunne has maintained hsi dignity (mostly) and seems to have gained a sense of humour, or at least seems more open to expressing himself.

He was criticised for some of his use of Twitter but that hasn’t deterred him from being himself.

@PeterDunneMP

Memo to spooks – I will be leaving Parliament Buildings around 12:20 pm for lunch. Is that ok, or do you want to know what I will be eating?

I don’t think we’ve heard the last of all this. Peeps versus spooks.
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June 28, 2013 12:01pm
bhudson

@PG,

So Dunne refuses to explain in any detail who he was going to meet for a certain lunchtime appointment, nor why he didn’t meet them, and then he tweets about spy interest in another lunchtime appointment.

Surely he can’t think dragging up his own story by association – the one that led to his resignation – time and again can turn out to be a good thing for him?
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June 28, 2013 12:09pm
Longknives

Does anyone know what’s going on with Lundy and the Privy Council? It seems to have dropped out of the news….
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June 28, 2013 12:10pm
Pete George

bhudson – I thought that he would want to leave his troubles behind him and move on, but obviously not. He risks overdoing it, but today’s issue does raise serious questions.

For example, who else has had tracking metadata used, and for what? There’s too much unknown.
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June 28, 2013 12:22pm
cha

Pick eight and no Steve Adams – yet.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/draft/2013/06/27/grades-pick-by-pick-cleveland-cavaliers/2465505/
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June 28, 2013 12:27pm
Scott

Gayness is compulsory-NZ schools must accept gayness or be in breach of human rights. Who said there is no slippery slope? Who said there would be freedom of choice? The gays will brook no opposition-

New Zealand principals have been warned they could breach the Human Rights Act if they stop students taking same-sex partners to their school balls.
Secondary Principals’ Association president Tom Parsons has highlighted the issue – hotly debated in previous years – as the ball season kicks off and acceptance of the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community grows.
Mr Parsons sent a letter to the country’s principals yesterday outlining possible unlawful discrimination under the act if students were stopped from taking a same-sex date.
Mr Parsons said the letter was a “heads up” for principals unfamiliar with the issue that arose each ball season.
Human Rights Commission spokesman Gilbert Wong said cases differed, but it was ultimately against the act to discriminate against someone based on their sexual orientations
– See more at: http://www.mychristiandaily.com/index.php/aus/171-news-item-3-australia-nz/6631-nz-schools-warned-over-same-sex-ball-dates#sthash.YUnrh7QP.dpuf
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June 28, 2013 12:32pm
Pete George

“Gayness is compulsory-NZ schools must accept gayness or be in breach of human rights.”

There’s more than a wee bit of difference between ensuring schools accept people of various sexual orientations and making homosexuality compulsory.
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June 28, 2013 12:36pm
dime

“New Zealand principals have been warned they could breach the Human Rights Act if they stop students taking same-sex partners to their school balls.”

whats the problem? we arent talking 5 year olds.

at that age, do what you want.
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June 28, 2013 12:42pm
Weihana

Scott (1,413) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

Who said there would be freedom of choice?

New Zealand principals have been warned they could breach the Human Rights Act if they stop students taking same-sex partners to their school balls.

How is that inconsistent with freedom of choice? Clearly having the option of taking your same-sex partner to the ball involves more choice than not having that option.
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June 28, 2013 12:45pm
wikiriwhis business

As someone noticed the Greens are running Britain down. So in the US consumers face police enforcement of smart meters

If you live in the US, your utility company
can install a dangerous microwave transmitter
in your home…

Against your will…and at gunpoint (with the
help of your friendly tax payer-supported
sheriff’s office.)

If you refuse, your power can be turned
off indefinitely and your local political
“representatives” can’t do a thing about it.

If you think this is insane, watch this.

Video:

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/23707.html
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June 28, 2013 12:51pm
Weihana

dime (6,520) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 12:42 pm

whats the problem? we arent talking 5 year olds.

Well we should be. They shouldn’t be subject to the moral dictates of repressed religious fuckwits any more than anyone else. Gender/sexual identity does not manifest itself at a particular age for the convenience of traditional sensibilities.

Conservatives have invented a boogie man of liberal parents who want to turn their children gay. It’s utter bullshit. Children manifest their own gender/sexual identity in spite of our assumptions that they will turn out “normal”. These children deserve acceptance and not loaded with repression and guilt from fundamentalist assholes with an agenda.
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June 28, 2013 12:52pm
cha

Well done Steve Adams, pick 12 for the Oklahoma Thunder.
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June 28, 2013 12:53pm
dime

weihana – personally i dont we need to go out of our way to promote gayness to 5 year old kids.

whats the point? as you say, children end up one way or another anyway. just let little kids be little kids and not some tool in a pro-gay/ anti-gay battle.

i gotta be honest, if my 5 year old (not that i have one) asked about why her friend had two mums or two dads. i would say – it happens, its not normal. cause remember, it aint “normal”.

jst like if you were explaining to someone Dimes love of hookers. that aint normal either! but i dont get offended when its pointed out!
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June 28, 2013 1:15pm
graham

I think you’ll find that it’s not just religious people who have concerns about same-sex issues, Weihana.

And conversely, not all religious people have concerns about same-sex issues. I’m sure you are aware of the number of churches who are homosexual-friendly (for want of a better phrase), have ordained homosexual ministers, and so on.
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June 28, 2013 1:17pm
Weihana

dime (6,521) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 1:15 pm

weihana – personally i dont we need to go out of our way to promote gayness to 5 year old kids.

whats the point? as you say, children end up one way or another anyway. just let little kids be little kids and not some tool in a pro-gay/ anti-gay battle.

I am not proposing anything other than letting little kids be little kids, the problem is that being a little kid does not mean you are a gender stereotype. Gender and sexual identity issues will manifest themselves in children that have them. It is the conservatives that believes we must impose our assumptions and prejudices on them, to repress who they are and to censure them for being themselves.

The notion that this is about “promoting gayness to 5 year olds” is simply false. It’s a made-up boogie man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8aiO8ON3Tk
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June 28, 2013 1:37pm
Weihana

Dime,

i gotta be honest, if my 5 year old (not that i have one) asked about why her friend had two mums or two dads. i would say – it happens, its not normal. cause remember, it aint “normal”.

Also on this point, depends what you mean by “normal”. Words can have multiple and/or ambiguous meanings. When discussing normality with children I don’t think they have statistics in mind. They are probably thinking about what is acceptable and ethical. Simply telling them that it is not “normal” I think promotes intolerance and non-acceptance. Perhaps that’s the intention. Not something I would recommend. I would rather children learn to understand rather than to pass judgment in ignorance.
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June 28, 2013 1:42pm
dime

“I am not proposing anything other than letting little kids be little kids”

so you think a 5 year old boy will ask another 5 year old boy do to to the school disco? as his boyfriend? really?

i call bullshit. im sure it would happen, after prompted by some nutjob parent or their life partner or whatever the hell the left call eachother nowadays.

also, at that age – bad luck. its not NORMAL.

i know you love the trannies but they are severly abnormal. no kid should ever have to be exposed to them or even “learn about them”.
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June 28, 2013 1:42pm
Weihana

graham (1,950) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

I think you’ll find that it’s not just religious people who have concerns about same-sex issues, Weihana.

And conversely, not all religious people have concerns about same-sex issues. I’m sure you are aware of the number of churches who are homosexual-friendly (for want of a better phrase), have ordained homosexual ministers, and so on.

Absolutely a fair point.
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June 28, 2013 1:44pm
Weihana

dime (6,522) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

so you think a 5 year old boy will ask another 5 year old boy do to to the school disco? as his boyfriend? really?

Not likely as young children don’t generally have “dates” whether straight or gay. But your unrealistic example does not change the fact that gender and sexual identity does manifest itself in young children.

i call bullshit. im sure it would happen, after prompted by some nutjob parent or their life partner or whatever the hell the left call eachother nowadays.

Watch the doco I provided and tell me that those parents are nut-jobs. They are like every other parent: they presume their kid will be average.

also, at that age – bad luck. its not NORMAL.

i know you love the trannies but they are severly abnormal. no kid should ever have to be exposed to them or even “learn about them”.

Well given that your attitude is the one that prevails do you suppose that maybe, just maybe, that is what is responsible for why they turn out that way?

Having gender/sexual identity issues is bad luck. That doesn’t mean we have to make life as difficult as possible for them simply to suit your prejudices.
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June 28, 2013 2:05pm
Shunda barunda

I posted this on an American blog:

As the leftist social progressives gain momentum with their crusade against western culture, we occasionally get a glimpse of the real agenda that exists behind the lies and the carefully manicured veil of deception that they operate under.

Some on the left seem genuinely naive of the ideology behind “the push” and effectively preach the mantra as ‘useful idiots’ caught up in the emotion of various issues, never looking beyond their superficial understanding of what is really going on – we should pity these people to some extent.

At the core of this larger agenda is the push for a fundamental rewriting of the way western nations interpret human rights, the UN is a significant contributer to this agenda.

Instead of human rights being based on dignity and legal equality, they become based on ‘individual interpretation’ and ‘feelings’, effectively becoming the epitome of “if it’s true for you. it’s true for you”

That this is a problematic development would be the understatement of the century.

But in order to get real traction with this agenda, they need a legal precedent, why? because all of our systems of equality and law are based on precedent, you get the precedent, you get the change.

Enter gay marriage.

Gay rights have effectively been hijacked by a bunch of leftist ideologue fascists that seek to determine morality for us. They have an incredibly presumptuous “born to lead” attitude about themselves, and seek to scream down any and everything that stands in their way.

If you disagree with even the slightest point, you will quickly be linked to every evil under the sun, you will be made out to be a racist, sexist, ageist bigot monster of enormous proportions, you will shut up, or feel their wrath.

Here is a refreshing glimpse of the true agenda as it relates to marriage articulated by one of the worlds most celebrated and respected lesbian activists and journalists – Masha Gessen:

http://www.inquisitr.com/641413/gay-marriage-is-a-lie-lesbian-masha-gessen-and-glenn-beck-agree/

Take from it what you will (or not).
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June 28, 2013 2:12pm
dime

Weihana – i cant be assed watching your video.

I dont even know what thell we are debating anymore so ill sum up my thoughts.

Teenagers – date/fuck whoever you want
5 year olds – gay dates to a disco is out. kids shouldnt have to learn about gays. they especially shouldnt have to learn about trannys. a lot of people dont want their kids thinking about anything along those lines. be kids. thats it.

adults – who cares. do what you want. wear a dress, get implants, live like the opposite sex. i dont care. but Dime will never accept that its normal though.
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June 28, 2013 2:24pm
nasska

Shunda barunda

….” ideologue fascists that seek to determine morality for us. They have an incredibly presumptuous “born to lead” attitude about themselves, and seek to scream down any and everything that stands in their way.”….

….”If you disagree with even the slightest point, you will quickly be linked to every evil under the sun”….

You don’t perhaps realise that these phrases describe EXACTLY what is written by religio-nutters, on an almost daily basis, on these very forums. It wouldn’t be hard to argue that anyone who wished to challenge their ordained version of how the world should be would have to be able to equal their bloody minded vituperation.
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June 28, 2013 2:27pm
Pete George

Did Patrick Gower see this Labour sign?
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June 28, 2013 2:44pm
Weihana

dime (6,523) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

Weihana – i cant be assed watching your video.

Fair enough, but it does in my view convincingly show that gender identity issues manifest themselves in young children without parents who seek to impose their own agenda on their children. The doco essentially destroys the myth of the liberal parent making their child gay.

5 year olds – gay dates to a disco is out.

Dates of any kind should be out. I don’t remember discos being much of a thing when I was 5 years old. 10 maybe and dates still weren’t a thing.

kids shouldnt have to learn about gays. they especially shouldnt have to learn about trannys. a lot of people dont want their kids thinking about anything along those lines. be kids. thats it.

A lot of people are morons. You portray it as if I’m suggesting we educate children about the drug-addicted tranny hooker on K Rd. Rather it’s about tolerance and acceptance of other children who are clearly different and do not assume the role we expect them to. It’s about encouraging children not to bully other children because they are different. It’s about encouraging children not to exclude other children because they are different whether that child suffers from some severe physical disability or whether that child has a gender identity disorder.

There are serious issues in the world that it would be nice that children didn’t have to know about. Unfortunately it’s pretty hard to hide the fact that some children suffer from abnormalities. Do we encourage children to understand why a child is in a wheelchair? Or why a boy prefers Barbie Dolls to Tonka Trucks? Or do we promote ignorance, intolerance, rejection and exclusion?

Some people act as if they are guardians for children’s innocence. In fact they are doing the opposite: they are promoting their own prejudices and intolerance and projecting it onto their children.
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June 28, 2013 2:45pm
Griff

When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.

.

Robert A. Heinlein
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June 28, 2013 2:47pm
dime

“It’s about encouraging children not to bully other children because they are different. It’s about encouraging children not to exclude other children because they are different whether that child suffers from some severe physical disability or whether that child has a gender identity disorder.”

that doesnt sound natural to me!

i dont like that we promote anything with kids. PARENTS teach their kids values.

Dime doesnt like it when schools start with social engineering shit in the name of tolerance or whatever.

“You portray it as if I’m suggesting we educate children about the drug-addicted tranny hooker on K Rd. ”

lol sorry. lets educate them about the highly successful t-gals out there! the ones chasing their dreams! the highly respected community leaders that they are.
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June 28, 2013 2:50pm
Weihana

dime (6,524) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 2:50 pm

that doesnt sound natural to me!

Being severely disabled isn’t natural either. Does that mean we have to promote ignorance and intolerance?

lol sorry. lets educate them about the highly successful t-gals out there! the ones chasing their dreams! the highly respected community leaders that they are.

This is a misrepresentation of my position. They don’t need to take a class on “successful t-gals”. But tolerance of fellow children should be promoted. Putting a boy with a gender identity disorder in shorts is not going to hide the fact that he is different. This is what they call “burying your head in the sand”.

Easy to ignore if your child isn’t the one at risk from bullying and social exclusion.
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June 28, 2013 2:56pm
Weihana

dime,

i dont like that we promote anything with kids. PARENTS teach their kids values.

Also unrealistic. Parents may be the prime source but children will learn values at school such as don’t steal, don’t hit, don’t bully, share etc. A family does not exist in a vacuum apart from the society around it.
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June 28, 2013 2:57pm
dime

“Being severely disabled isn’t natural either. Does that mean we have to promote ignorance and intolerance?” – so because we arent PROMOTING tolerance, we are PROMOTING intolerance? no, we let kids be kids. they are little assholes, they pick on other kids all the time. those picked on grow up to be left wing whimps 🙂

“Easy to ignore if your child isn’t the one at risk from bullying and social exclusion.” – home school the little freakshow 🙂
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June 28, 2013 3:02pm
Shunda barunda

You don’t perhaps realise that these phrases describe EXACTLY what is written by religio-nutters, on an almost daily basis, on these very forums.

The standard of discussion here, while often very crass, is far better than the blog discussions going on on USA based blogs.

It wouldn’t be hard to argue that anyone who wished to challenge their ordained version of how the world should be would have to be able to equal their bloody minded vituperation.

Oh good grief, so two wrongs do make a right?

Since when does fascism lead to anything good? Every fascist ideologue believes they are correct.
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June 28, 2013 3:12pm
Shunda barunda

Being severely disabled isn’t natural either. Does that mean we have to promote ignorance and intolerance?

It sure as hell means you’re not going to make that kid any more “equal” by passing laws or preaching tolerance.

If you are born without legs, tough deal, horrible even, but welcome to reality.

Likewise if you are born with a mental or psychological disorder, or sexual identity disorder

Should we persecute anomalies? no way, do we pretend they are just like everyone else?: rational people- no, leftist social progressives – yes.

You are pushing an unnatural and unfair reality upon those born into unfortunate circumstances. Killing people with kindness is little different to killing them with hate.
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June 28, 2013 3:20pm
Shunda barunda

. They don’t need to take a class on “successful t-gals”. But tolerance of fellow children should be promoted.

You talk as this isn’t already happening, it bloody well is!!
You can address these issues without even mentioning sexuality to school kids, and we already are and have been for some time.

Putting a boy with a gender identity disorder in shorts is not going to hide the fact that he is different. This is what they call “burying your head in the sand”.

Good grief.
Lets all promote a form of Munchhausen syndrome by proxy for every dopey woman that longs for a gay or transgender son.

Welcome to an escalation in the young male suicide rate.
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June 28, 2013 3:26pm
publicwatchdog

Seen this Kiwibloggers?

“An amateur litigant who has a court case against MP John Banks under way and plans one against MP Peter Dunne is now advancing the process against Prime Minister John Key.”

(Only found about this today).

It’s potentially quite a big deal.

I mean – whoever expected the DEFENDANT John Banks to end up in the dock, at the Auckland District Court?

A sitting MP, being held accountable in a Court of LAW, to the RULE OF LAW?

Far out!

Whoever may be next………………?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8845031/Litigant-launches-more-cases

Litigant launches more cases

MICHAEL FIELD
Last updated 17:08 26/06/2013

An amateur litigant who has a court case against MP John Banks under way and plans one against MP Peter Dunne is now advancing the process against Prime Minister John Key.

Graham McCready, a retired accountant, of Wellington, has filed informations with the Wellington District Court against Key alleging that he broke the Crimes Act by using or authorising illegal surveillance on internet entrepreneur Kim Dotcom.

He has submitted the same informations against Government Communications Security Bureau head Ian Fletcher.

Deputy registrar Kevin Conroy has acknowledged the informations.

“I now have to consider the matter of the issue of summonses under the provisions of the Summary Procedures Act 1957,” he said.

He said he must be satisfied that the informations and summons disclosed an offence and there was sufficient information to fairly inform the defendants.

McCready is asked to provide a full written summary of the facts.

His case involves a section of the Crimes Act that prohibits the use of interception devices and says “everyone is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years who intentionally intercepts any private communication by means of an interception device”.

Key’s office had no comment.

McCready has previously taken private prosecutions against MPs Trevor Mallard and Banks. The prosecution against Mallard alleged assault, but the Labour MP later pleaded guilty to fighting in a public place in 2007.

In May, Banks pleaded not guilty to a charge alleging he filed a false electoral return in the Auckland mayoralty race three years ago.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

More information (copies of the actual ‘informations’) will be available soon – so you can read them for yourselves.

Kind regards,

Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation’ campaigner

2013 Auckland mayoral candidate
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June 28, 2013 3:43pm
Harriet

Shunda Barunda#

“…Instead of human rights being based on dignity and legal equality, they become based on ‘individual interpretation’ and ‘feelings’, effectively becoming the epitome of “if it’s true for you. it’s true for you”…”

Excatly!

7-8 years ago a child was born in a QLD Government hospital and an observation at birth was made that that child was a boy.

Last year here in Qld THAT VERY SAME 7 or 8 yld boy told his divorced mother that he wanted to be a girl, so his mother let him become a girl at home – dressing as a girl and getting his mum to call him a girls name.

The mother rang her school this year and said her boy will be enrolled next term as a ‘girl’.

The school then changed the disabled toilets sign to unisex and told the mother that the boy cannot enter into sports competitions as a ‘girl’. The mother agreed.

The ‘girl’ started school and then complained to ‘her’ mum that she couldn’t use the girls toilets at school.

The ‘mother’ then contacted a lawyer, the media, and said that it was a case of discrimination, human rights ect.

The education dept and other government ‘officials’ were immediatley notified and then immediatly allowed the ‘girl’ to use the girls toilet.

Yep – a 7 yld boy said ‘I’m now a girl’ – and the entire fucken government – all the way to the top – fell into line!

But as I’ve said before about the gays – their arguement isn’t against Christians and other humans – it’s instead against science, biology, as biology is biggoted and doesn’t see gays as being gay – but hetrosexual! 😎
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June 28, 2013 4:22pm
Weihana

dime (6,526) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 3:02 pm

no, we let kids be kids. they are little assholes, they pick on other kids all the time. those picked on grow up to be left wing whimps

I don’t find most children to be little assholes. It does seem though that asshole children tend to have asshole parents.
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June 28, 2013 4:27pm
Weihana

Harriet (2,009) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

Yep – a 7 yld boy said ‘I’m now a girl’ – and the entire fucken government – all the way to the top – fell into line!

And who is the one with the problem? The kids or you?

The kids in the doco I provided earlier seem perfectly happy running around and playing while one of the boys is dressed as a girl. Prejudice and intolerance is something they learn, they aren’t born with it.
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June 28, 2013 4:31pm
nasska

….” it’s instead against science, biology, as biology is biggoted and doesn’t see gays as being gay – but hetrosexual”….

Biologists would make an assessment of gender based solely on the physical attributes of the child, or even an adult. I would suggest that determining sexual orientation would be more the field of psychiatrists.
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June 28, 2013 4:31pm
Weihana

But as I’ve said before about the gays – their arguement isn’t against Christians and other humans – it’s instead against science, biology, as biology is biggoted and doesn’t see gays as being gay – but hetrosexual!

Pure ignorance. Gender identity is biological.
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June 28, 2013 4:33pm
Weihana

Shunda barunda (2,845) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 3:20 pm

Should we persecute anomalies? no way, do we pretend they are just like everyone else?: rational people- no, leftist social progressives – yes.

Right, cause that’s just what disabled people want: for you to point out how different they are all the time. I expect they’re quite aware of who and what they are.
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June 28, 2013 4:36pm
Griff

Happened here not long ago
Boy changes to Girl- Starts new school- uses girls toilets- girls see her as girl- end of story.
Examine your own psychiatric problems if you spend all of your time obsessed about homosexual behavior.
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June 28, 2013 4:38pm
Harriet

FFS#

So now we have the usual suspects out supporting narrow sexist caricatures:

Make-up. Dresses. Pissing while sitting down. ‘Girls’ ‘names’.

A 7 yld doesn’t KNOW what EXACTLY a girl is!

And you fucken prog idiots think it is best to encourage such narrow sexist views?

You fucken hypocrats! 😎
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June 28, 2013 4:40pm
dime

“I don’t find most children to be little assholes.”

kids can be cruel to anyone that is different.

“The kids in the doco I provided earlier seem perfectly happy running around and playing while one of the boys is dressed as a girl. Prejudice and intolerance is something they learn, they aren’t born with it.”

Well if the kids in the doco are happy lmao

“Prejudice and intolerance is something they learn” – total bullshit.

“Boy changes to Girl- Starts new school- uses girls toilets- girls see her as girl- end of story.” – lmao yeah. that simple. is that what you did griff?
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June 28, 2013 4:46pm
Harriet

Weihana#

“…And who is the one with the problem? The kids or you?…”

Handbag day is it? – all women are tempremental on those days!

You can’t argue with that narrow sexist caricature when you yourself think it is BEST to install them in little boys! 😎
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June 28, 2013 4:50pm
Harriet

Weihana#

“…..Pure ignorance. Gender identity is biological…..”

HAhahahhahah LOL!

If 10 gays and 10 lesbians were the last people on earth they WOULD procreate to save mankind! 😎

Not only that, but gay1 and lesbian1, gay2 and lesbian2 would have a public display[Marriage] so that their offspring did not commit incest on each other, or their children committing incest.

In other words Marriage is a hetrosexual institution for the public good, based on the natural order of things.

Being gay is just a social construct! 😎
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June 28, 2013 5:02pm
Weihana

dime (6,528) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 4:46 pm

kids can be cruel to anyone that is different.

They can. They can also be accepting. Suppose it depends on those “values” that they are taught eh. 🙂

Well if the kids in the doco are happy lmao

Hey, you didn’t watch it.

“Prejudice and intolerance is something they learn” – total bullshit.

In retrospect perhaps an overly sweeping statement. 🙂 I do accept that humans are tribal by nature, but this all depends on how the tribe is defined. I think they take cues from those around them: both adults and their peers.
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June 28, 2013 5:09pm
Weihana

Harriet (2,012) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 5:02 pm

If 10 gays and 10 lesbians were the last people on earth…

Still obsessing over the pending apocalypse? I suppose while waiting for Jebus to return you can think of nothing else! 🙂
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June 28, 2013 5:14pm
Harriet

“…..Still obsessing over the pending apocalypse? I suppose while waiting for Jebus to return you can think of nothing else!…:

No counter arguement based on fact….instead an admitance of defeat! 😎
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June 28, 2013 5:18pm
Weihana

Harriet (2,013) Says:
June 28th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

No counter arguement based on fact….instead an admitance of defeat!

Oh yes… rambling on about the end of the world and incest… you are a debating champ! 😎
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June 28, 2013 5:19pm
Reid

http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/snowden-nsa-blackmail-and-the-boys-in-the-back-room/

How Snowden managed to do what he did as a 29 year old is an interesting question, with interesting possibilities.
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June 28, 2013 5:39pm
nasska

Reid

…”They don’t have a clue about how the game is played, and they never will.

You’re representing two defense contractors, a pharmaceutical company, a big AG corporation, and a bank. Those are your only true constituents. You give them all the time they need.”….

Yet the poor fools who vote still think that they live in a functioning democracy….they are so thick that they scare me.
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June 28, 2013 5:59pm
Reid

Yet the poor fools who vote still think that they live in a functioning democracy….they are so thick that they scare me.

They don’t scare me. It’s the politicians who’ve lost all sense of ethics who scare me nasska. While the voters have always been a pack of idiots, like around 95% of them total fuckwits who understand nothing, that’s always been the case. But at least in times past you had some and usually most politicians who had some principles. These days those sort of politicians are in the minority and the things the worst of them are prepared to do these days get worse and worse. Selling their own grandma or anyone else down the river is nothing compared to what some of these scum are prepared to do, these days.

And the worst part is, these scum are people like Bush, Blair, Obama, Cheney and I could name a few thousand more of them. They’re supposed to be the good guys, in our western world. And they’re the arseholes, these days.

That scares me and if it doesn’t scare you I’m not sure why. And if you or any other reader of this cares to deny its true then look at history for their myriad crimes are naked before any superficial objective analysis. If anyone can’t see them in the history that has happened, then either those people don’t understand history or for some reason they can’t bring themselves to face facts. Either way I don’t really care, but they harm themselves through their wilful ignorance because the crimes haven’t stopped, in fact, they haven’t even really got started, yet and they owe it to themselves to educate themselves.
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June 28, 2013 6:16pm
Viking2

You gotta love this one even if
You’ve never lived in Melbourne .

Some of you (pilots…) will enjoy this
More than others….
Victorians can be so polite!

Melbourne Tower :
“Saudi Air 511. You are cleared to land on runway 27L”

Saudi Air :
“Thank you Melbourne . Acknowledge cleared to land on infidel’s runway 27L –
Allah be Praised.”

Melbourne Tower :
” Iran Air 711 – You are cleared to land on runway 27L.”

Iran Air :
“Thank you Melbourne . We are cleared to land on infidel’s runway 27L. –
Allah is Great..”

Pause…..

Saudi Air :
” MELBOURNE TOWER –
MELBOURNE TOWER !”

Melbourne Tower :
“Go ahead Saudi Air 511…”

Saudi Air:
“YOU HAVE CLEARED BOTH OUR AIRCRAFT FOR THE SAME RUNWAY GOING IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS. WE ARE ON A COLLISION COURSE .. … .. .. ….
INSTRUCTIONS, PLEASE!”

Melbourne Tower :
“Well bless your hearts, and praise Jesus. Proceed to your destination and
Tell Allah we said “Hi”.
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June 28, 2013 6:22pm
Viking2

Something for you kiddies to discuss during playtime next week.

The Earth gets 100 tons heavier every day due to falling space dust.

Due to earth’s gravity it is impossible for mountains to be higher than 15,000 meters.
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June 28, 2013 6:23pm
Viking2

The return of “psychopath” Rudd

Dr Oliver Hartwich | Executive Director | oliver.hartwich@nzinitiative.org.nz
There has been no shortage of excitement in Australian politics in recent years. Treachery, back-stabbing, scandals and defections are among the staples of Australian democracy (which one might now instinctively misspell as demo-crazy).

Yet Kevin Rudd’s resurrection as Labor leader and Prime Minister tops all the oddities we have become used to. Even by Australian standards, this is an extraordinary development.

If you have not followed Australian politics closely, you might think Julia Gillard being toppled by her predecessor was just the removal of an unpopular prime minister by a party scared of losing the next election in a landslide.

In fact, it is far worse than that.

Although three years is a long time in politics, it is worth reminding ourselves why Rudd was ousted by his own colleagues in 2013 – and why his return was then blocked not once but twice by his party. Unlike the majority of the Australian people, his colleagues knew all too well what kind of person Rudd was.

To the public, Rudd appears to be a slightly geeky but affable guy. The inside view on him has always differed from this carefully crafted image.

Rudd was someone who would regularly throw tantrums at colleagues, defence personnel, and media editors. He was unable to work with his cabinet. He was obsessed with opinion polls and made up and micromanaged policies based on them.

The best anecdote summing up his character was when Rudd summoned the chief of the defence force only to keep him waiting for several hours outside his office, before sending him away.

In the words of Bendigo Labor MP Steve Gibbons, Rudd is “a psychopath with a giant ego”.

In contrast, Gillard is certainly not the best prime minister Australia has had, and she made plenty of mistakes in office. But anyone who has had any personal dealings with her describes her as intelligent, funny and personable.

Gillard’s first tragedy was that she never explained properly why she and her colleagues ousted Rudd in 2010. It was not just because of policies or polls but largely for Rudd’s character deficiencies.

Her second tragedy was that she needed Rudd’s vote in parliament to stay in office. She even had to make him foreign minister to keep him quiet for a while.

Rudd never returned these favours and kept destabilising the party and undermining Gillard’s leadership every step of the way. He wanted revenge – and now he has got it.

He has sabotaged Gillard’s government to the point where his party, despite the personal hatred towards him, now believes he is the only chance of avoiding a massacre at the polls.

Rudd’s second premiership may turn out to be short-lived because Australian Labor, divided and exhausted, lies in tatters. Only someone like Rudd could not care about that. After all, he never cared for anyone or anything other than himself.

The kindergarten of Australian politics has finally turned into a farce. It is the Australian people who will have their say on it in the forthcoming elections.
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