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June 26, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 June 2013

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General Debate

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Redbaiter

“Reads like a 14 year old’s homework assignment.”

Of course.

Ridicule.

The same old same old prog fall back position when their delusional make believe world bullshit is confronted with plain stark truth.

The death penalty is a deterrent, as the studies referenced at that link shows so plainly.

And as for Jude’s infantile stuff about what may be passing through someone’s head at the time they murder, its not the point.

As I have said before, the DP reinforces any sense of morality that is abroad in the citizenry, and that we do not have it now is compatible with the lack of morality (or relative morality) that the progs have encouraged today and why we see in NZ society such high levels of vicious inhuman behaviour as has been discussed here over the last few days.

http://www.truebluenz.orconhosting.net.nz/newfile2.html
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June 26, 2013 1:04pm
Judith

Redbaiter (3,584) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 1:04 pm
——————————–

So you are claiming that murder is a rational act Red?
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June 26, 2013 1:08pm
kowtow

mandk @1234

It’s called “equality”. In the name of the ideology of “equality” any injustice or insanity is now OK.

Sadly I see no end it.

Feminism and “equality” has led to the death of common sense and to a perversion of our once proud legal system.
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June 26, 2013 1:14pm
Redbaiter

Jude, you’re a good example of the plain wrong thinking that is at the root of our currently dysfunctional justice system.

What is worse though is your constant refusal to accept the failures you are rsponsible for.

Innocent people are being subjected to intolerable violence while you continue to pontificate about ideas that by the state of our society today are proven to be completely unworkable.

You’re a contemptible disgrace.
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June 26, 2013 1:19pm
Judith

Redbaiter (3,585) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 1:19 pm
———————————-

How am I responsible for other people committing crimes? You mistakenly think I work for the MOJ, I don’t.

If the ideas are unworkable, then why are we seeing a drop in crime since the 1980’s?

So I’m no longer a commie, a socialist or a progressive, now I’m a ‘disgrace’. Thanks Red – coming from you I take it as a compliment. I now get to join the other 98% of members of this blog that you can’t stand. 🙂
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June 26, 2013 1:24pm
dime

“So I’m no longer a commie, a socialist or a progressive, now I’m a ‘disgrace’.”

batshit crazy sums you up better 🙂
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June 26, 2013 1:33pm
Kea

mandk, one observation I would make is that women plan and strategize their way through family court proceedings, while men react and get carried along by events. The men tend to act emotionally and honestly, while women focus on revenge and financial benefits. They are also unconstrained by the truth.

I count myself lucky my own break up did not have to go through that dreadful system.
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June 26, 2013 2:05pm
Kea

dime, I hope to be promoted to a “disgrace” one day by the resident arbiter of such things 🙂
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June 26, 2013 2:07pm
Manolo

Griff is delighted, chuffed, happy, over the moon, and elated, but with friends like this one…
http://blog.algore.com/2013/06/statement_on_president_obamas_1.html
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June 26, 2013 2:08pm
Alan Johnstone

Big win for Len Brown today. He should cruise to re election now, esp in the absence of an credible right wing candidate
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June 26, 2013 2:09pm
Griff

Manalupooh
griff does not get elated
unless you can supply him some of the premo weed you keep teasing him with
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June 26, 2013 2:12pm
Weihana

Redbaiter (3,587) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

“Reads like a 14 year old’s homework assignment.”

Of course.

Ridicule.

You think your batshit crazy rants deserve more?

The same old same old prog fall back position when their delusional make believe world bullshit is confronted with plain stark truth.

The death penalty is a deterrent, as the studies referenced at that link shows so plainly.

Your reference is apparently lifted from a geocities page which no longer exists, but the link purports to be “Wesley Low’s Pro Death Penalty Web Page” (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2698/cp.html)

It’s a sad joke of a website which looks straight out of 1995. It mentions a study from 1985 by Stephen K. Layson at the University of North Carolina. No methodology is discussed, but merely a conclusion that “every execution of a murderer deters, on average, 18 murders”. Honestly Redbaiter, you think because you call something a “study” it proves your position?

If the methodology of this study is anything resembling what is provided on your link, it leaves much to be desired. We have this lovely gem:

“Gary Gilmore faced a firing squad at the Utah State Prison on January 17, 1977. There had been 55 murders in that state during 1976. During 1977, in the wake of the Gilmore execution, there were 44 murders, a 20 percent decrease. ”

And this apparently is supposed to prove something. Whatever moron wrote this crap apparently believes that if he uses the words “in the wake of the Gilmore execution” that this proves that the subsequent decline is related to the execution. The page refers to five executions in Utah since the reintroduction of the death penalty but statistics are only given for three. What’s the matter, the other two executions not fit into the narrative?

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/discussion-recent-deterrence-studies

And as for Jude’s infantile stuff about what may be passing through someone’s head at the time they murder, its not the point.

Actually it is the point when you claim that the death penalty deters. What is in the mind of offenders is absolutely relevant when the issue is deterrence.

As I have said before, the DP reinforces any sense of morality that is abroad in the citizenry, and that we do not have it now is compatible with the lack of morality (or relative morality) that the progs have encouraged today and why we see in NZ society such high levels of vicious inhuman behaviour as has been discussed here over the last few days.

What a load of shit.
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June 26, 2013 2:13pm
Weihana

Kea (5,481) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

mandk, one observation I would make is that women plan and strategize their way through family court proceedings, while men react and get carried along by events.

Are children better off with parents who “plan and strategize” or parents who “react and get carried along”? 🙂
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June 26, 2013 2:19pm
dime

JK is gonna kick in some rail loop cash.. interesting.

delayed by 5 years – will that become delayed forever!?

Dime is happy to spend money but im not convinced the rail loop is the answer. it looked a bit shit last time i checked it out.
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June 26, 2013 2:22pm
graham

Yay, what great news. This will really benefit those of us who live over the Harbour Bridge which, last time I looked, doesn’t have railway/cycleway/pedestrian capacity, and barely enough capacity to take the buses.
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June 26, 2013 2:28pm
Kea

Weihana , Children are better off with parents who love and care for them. A parent with heart. They are better off with a parent who does not use them as a pawn to seek revenge on their former partner and as a meal ticket. A ticket that once clipped, they ignore the kids and sleep around and play party girl.

Does that answer your question ? 🙂
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June 26, 2013 2:35pm
Kea

Manolo, great link to Gore’s site.

Al Gore could become world’s first carbon billionaire
Al Gore, the former US vice president, could become the world’s first carbon billionaire after investing heavily in green energy companies.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/6491195/Al-Gore-could-become-worlds-first-carbon-billionaire.html
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June 26, 2013 2:39pm
kowtow

Crime and punishment,demise of the west,deadbeat parents,depression it’s all here……..

Theodore Dalrymple ,the Frivolity of Evil

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_4_oh_to_be.html
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June 26, 2013 2:40pm
Redbaiter

“I hope to be promoted to a “disgrace” one day by the resident arbiter of such things”

You’d need to ascend to a level above useless narcissistic troll before you could reach disgrace.
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June 26, 2013 2:43pm
Dennis Horne

Statistics, eh. I am safer and my property too than when I was, say 10, in 1953? Possibly safe in the house; bars on all the downstairs windows and a weapon close by. My cousin wasn’t so lucky, knocked down to the ground and robbed in broad daylight just off Remuera Road.

The Gendamerie, armed with H&K automatics, don’t venture into parts of Paris. Why don’t they take the data and wave that around? My son, sitting on the train into the The City yesterday didn’t say anything when a black man blew snot all over the seat. Wuss. No knifings in London.

So, capital punishment is more expensive than a lifetime of accommodation, is it? Nonsense. Ask the Chinese.

And capital punishment doesn’t deter? Compare this and compare that. What exactly are you comparing?

There’s only one thing you need to know about statistics: 90% are made up. 😉 Well, not quite, but the liars figure.
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June 26, 2013 2:46pm
Kea

Red, lucky for me that I do not seek your approval, nor have I asked for it. In fact I would be having a long hard look at myself if I did have your approval !

I guess you are too far up your own arse to understand that acting like a self appointed moderator on someone elses blog, angrily attacking differing points of view and demanding compliance with your views, is very narcisstic behaviour.

The fact you occassionaly have something intelligent to contribute is more a function of the frequency of comments than your ability.

To summarise, up yours 🙂
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June 26, 2013 2:50pm
Redbaiter

“To summarise, up yours”

Yeah, you said that before.

You were just (un) lucky I had no razor blades and a warm bath nearby at the time.
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June 26, 2013 2:53pm
Kea

Red, you forgot to include a smiley face with your comment 🙂
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June 26, 2013 3:16pm
Judith

Redbaiter (3,594) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 2:43 pm
————————

Oh Red honey, you’re obviously having a bad day and getting muddled.
Please try and stick to the plan. 😛
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June 26, 2013 3:23pm
Judith

Kea (5,486) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 3:16 pm
—————————–

Sorry Kea, you’re going to have to try a damn sight harder if you want to be a disgrace, and not just an ordinary disgrace either, a contemptible one. That particular title isn’t just given out ‘willy nilly’ you know. It takes weeks, even months to achieve the ultimate accolade from Red. You have to progress through the various stages, there is no jumping ahead I’m afraid. 🙂
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June 26, 2013 3:30pm
RF

Where has that old bloke Ham Bone gone ? Not that I miss being called a dirty scum Neolib its just that with his party in a full spiral dive he must be very depressed.
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June 26, 2013 3:31pm
mandk

Judith, Kea, Manolo, kowtow,
thanks for your comments on my 12.34
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June 26, 2013 3:40pm
Kea

mandk, The odds are against men, but they can sometimes get the system to work fairly. It is important guys realise it is not “them” it is the system. Sadly some guys lose the plot out of frustration and do silly things, which is understandable, but it plays right into the hands of the woman and does them no favours. Many women know this and will do all they can to push a guy over the edge. I have seen this many times.

Make sure you give him heaps of moral support and let him know all is not lost.
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June 26, 2013 3:46pm
Akaroa

Judith at 1220, responding to my assertion that the death penalty is an effective deterrent to murder posted – inter alia – “as murder is an emotional crime, people that murder are not rational, and therefore do not have the ability to rationalise their behaviour against possible punishment”

Hi Judith – (I enjoy your posts btw) – I have to take issue with you here. I maintain that not all, and possibly not even most, murders are ‘crimes passionelle’ Some are, of course, but by no means all.

I’d go so far as to say that the majority are coolly calculated solutions to a situation the ‘murderer’ finds intolerable. Think of the battered wife who finally plucks up courage to poison her violent spouse. Or any other of the many scenarios where cold-blooded murder is for profit in some way and not an extension of rage.

Fortunately my experience of murder is virtually nil – but I do recall an instance that occurred in Aden when I was there where a youth – the 15 yr old son of a Brit airman – strangled to death a Somali maid with whom he had had an illicit sexual relationship when she fell pregnant. A cold blooded solution to his ‘problem’. Nothing emotional about it. And he did the deed in her room at the RAF married quarter his family occupied

Had that lad thought that he would hang I am certain that he would have shied away from such a drastic “solution” to his situation.

QED
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June 26, 2013 4:59pm
Weihana

Akaroa (313) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 4:59 pm

I’d go so far as to say that the majority are coolly calculated solutions to a situation the ‘murderer’ finds intolerable.

…

Fortunately my experience of murder is virtually nil – but I do recall an instance that occurred in Aden when I was there where a youth – the 15 yr old son of a Brit airman – strangled to death a Somali maid with whom he had had an illicit sexual relationship when she fell pregnant. A cold blooded solution to his ‘problem’. Nothing emotional about it. And he did the deed in her room at the RAF married quarter his family occupied

Had that lad thought that he would hang I am certain that he would have shied away from such a drastic “solution” to his situation.

QED

QED translates as “which was to be demonstrated”. What you were attempting to demonstrate was that the majority of murders are characterized a certain way. One anecdote would not appear to be a demonstration of such.

I’m not sure a majority of murderers are mindless either and I don’t think Judith was necessarily suggesting they were. I think the central point is that they are irrational and that can manifest itself in a variety of ways and not simply uncontrollable rage.

I think perhaps an equal or more important aspect is the expectation of getting away with it. They don’t expect to be caught. Death may be the worst of all punishments but years in prison is not a picnic despite the fact that conservatives portray it as living in a 5-star resort. If they knew they would spend a long time in prison I would expect far fewer of them would go through with the act. But they don’t expect to get caught, they expect to get away with it. So increasing the punishment to execution is going to have a very limited effect on people for whom any punishment does not appear real to them because they expect to escape punishment altogether.
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June 26, 2013 5:12pm
lilman

I know a killer who murdered 3 people.1 shot,1 stomped to death and another beaten with a piece of wood.
If he had been executed for the first beating ,2 people would be alive today,he is currently in jail for a number of years.
He is a Kiwi and he is in Auckland prison.
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June 26, 2013 5:22pm
Judith

Akaroa (313) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 4:59 pm
—————————–

Hi Akaroa.
As Weihana has said, the ‘irrational’ murderer does not necessarily mean those that act immediately on impulse. I”m sorry if I gave the impression that is what I meant. A person can build their irrational thoughts over time and act on them. Irrational thoughts contribute to their behaviour.

The statistics collected indicate that the vast majority of murderers have irrational thoughts and act on them. Many do not plan to kill, but just cause harm, and lose control. Others develop irrational thoughts e.g. the neighbour is spying on them and so on. A person that is full of anger and hatred may think of the punishment if they get caught, but their emotions do not allow them to think the problem through sufficiently to stop them performing the act. We see the sensational murders on the media, but there are many we don’t see, and most get caught, quickly, because they haven’t had enough mindfulness to actually hide the tracks.

People that have the ability to think a problem through in a rational manner, do not go out and commit murder. It is our ability to rationalise that stops the majority of us from murdering when angry.

Most of the sort that are not acting out of irrationality, are either psychopaths or ‘greed’ killers. The last being those that benefit financially from the murders, but they are in the minority. Psychopaths can at times think very rationally. In fact the ones I have met have an incredible ability to ‘rationalise’ their acts. The are of course stark raving mad, but in a weird ‘sane’ kind of way. Very scary people.

They are the sort that sit and plan. Very few of them make mistakes, they are usually quite intelligent, but evil and cruel – Even though Hannibal is the most famous one, many of the attributes displayed by the actor are common to psychopaths, but not all are as obvious. There are probably a lot more psychopaths in the community than people realise – it is not until they become ‘incompetent psychopaths’ that many of them attract attention.
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June 26, 2013 6:24pm
Longknives

I thought all our murderers were innocent Judith? Having been ‘framed’ by those corrupt, evil Police…
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June 26, 2013 6:31pm
Judith

lilman (428) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 5:22 pm
—————————-
As far as I am aware there is no one currently incarcerated for three separate incidences of murder in New Zealand.

Are you sure they were charged with murder in three separate incidences ?
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June 26, 2013 6:39pm
Judith

Longknives (2,600) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 6:31 pm
I thought all our murderers were innocent Judith? Having been ‘framed’ by those corrupt, evil Police…
—————————————–

Goes to show, what you think isn’t always right is it, Longknives.
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June 26, 2013 6:40pm
William of Ockham

… three separate incidences.

Is that the same as “three separate incidents”, in Pidgin?
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June 26, 2013 6:56pm
Judith

William of Ockham (29) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 6:56 pm
—————————
Does the fact the spelling and grammar isn’t right make the context of the statement wrong, or are you just eager to prove that being pedantic is the ‘new sexy’?
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June 26, 2013 6:58pm
nasska

Judith

….”Most of the sort that are not acting out of irrationality, are either psychopaths or ‘greed’ killers.”…..

Of those found guilty of murder on an average year, what percentage would be classifiable as psychopaths & would it be reasonable to presume them to be premeditated killers? I am against the death penalty for one & one only reason….the possibility that our creaky justice system could get it wrong. I do however, believe that the public should be protected from those capable of following through with an intention to murder.

These offenders are always going to be dangerous & life should mean for the term of their natural life without possibility of release.
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June 26, 2013 7:05pm
Griff

pedantic = anal
So sexy only if its gay sex
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June 26, 2013 7:06pm
big bruv

I am sure that I am not the only one to mention this but am I the only one who has once again been forced to cringe over the coverage of a conversation between David Letterman and John Travolta?

Because two middle aged American men happened to mention New Zealand in a brief chat the media and many of the nations people have gone into full identity crisis mode.

When the fuck will we learn to grow up?
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June 26, 2013 7:07pm
Redbaiter

“the possibility that our creaky justice system could get it wrong.”

How irrational and how typical of a pot smoking Dylan worshipping gorse farming sister loving bald headed hippy/ hillbilly.

So if David Grey (Aramoana) had survived you would not have executed him on the grounds that he may have been innocent? Pathetic and spineless.
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June 26, 2013 7:13pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o715vxzrxs23r6l/wpp.JPG
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June 26, 2013 7:14pm
nasska

He didn’t survive Reddy….give us another example.
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June 26, 2013 7:17pm
Redbaiter

Maybe the police should not be permitted to ever shoot people (like Grey) on the grounds they may be innocent.

Pffft..

What a wanker.
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June 26, 2013 7:18pm
Griff

Domain names considered racist toward Maori can not be removed by the body that manages them unless they are ordered to by a court.

One domain name, unemployed.maori.nz, links straight to the Work and Income New Zealand website.

Another, called kai.maori.nz, redirects to the KFC website.

Auckland University of Technology lecturer Steve Elders it was part of a growing trend of “online Maori bashing”.
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June 26, 2013 7:19pm
Kea

How irrational and how typical of a pot smoking Dylan worshipping gorse farming sister loving bald headed hippy/ hillbilly.

Here is a song to cheer you up Red 🙂

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecwX0emXQE0
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June 26, 2013 7:22pm
SGA

@big bruv at 7:07 pm

I am sure that I am not the only one to mention this but am I the only one who has once again been forced to cringe over the coverage of a conversation between David Letterman and John Travolta?

Agreed. All I can picture is a teenage schoolgirl crying “Oh my god, oh my god, he mentioned me, he mentioned me, oh my god, oh my god”.
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June 26, 2013 7:27pm
Viking2

As i predicited a couple of days back. Don’t trust the Govt. with anything.

The legislation also gives the Cabinet the power to decide by regulation that agencies other than the GCSB, SIS and police are enforcement agencies for the purpose of the bill, allowing them to request that particular service providers have interception obligations placed on them.

And upon my prior post on taxing authorities moving to police social media for thought crimes, does this now allow the Inland Revenue Department, as an enforcement agency, to use the intrusive powers and methods of GCSB and/or SIS, to augment their existing considerable privacy busting powers, to gather information on taxpayers to enforce that department’s tax mandate for the ‘economic well-being’ of New Zealand? (As farcical as this would be, given taxation destroys economic well-being). And if such power is given by the Cabinet under regulation, will that be public knowledge, or under secrecy (as seems usual for the operation of government now, since our politicians have given away the possibility of remaining a free society)? Noting all the while that such eavesdropping would be in breach of the privilege that otherwise exists between a taxpayer and, say, their lawyer.

http://lifebehindtheirondrape.blogspot.co.nz/2013/06/three-things-gcsbs-new-powers-ird.html

And, there is probably a list of others like Customs, DOC, ACC, et al. Indeed any Dept. the Govt bloody well choses.
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June 26, 2013 7:28pm
SGA

@Redbaiter (3,601) at 7:13 pm

So if David Grey (Aramoana) had survived you would not have executed him on the grounds that he may have been innocent? Pathetic and spineless.

I was overseas during “Aramona”. Would Grey have had a chance of an insanity plea if he’d survived? Honest question, I don’t know enough of the details.
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June 26, 2013 7:30pm
Longknives

SGA- If he had a lying former All Black and a gushing John Campbell in his corner the public would probably almost believe he was innocent by now….
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June 26, 2013 7:35pm
SGA

@longknives at 7:35pm
errr… okaaay … ummmm… that was really, really informative … thanks for your help.
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June 26, 2013 7:43pm
Judith

nasska (6,736) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 7:05 pm
—————————–

I agree, life should be mean life, as in ‘imprisoned for the ‘natural’. Anything else isn’t life, it is simply a defined term of imprisonment.

I also think we need to have ‘degrees’ of murder. Whilst killing someone is never acceptable, there are some circumstances where offenders should receive harsher penalties than others.

Sorry but I don’t know the percentage of psychopathic killers each year, which of course varies, but it would be a small percentage. The vast majority by far being emotionally based murders (the sort where the victim is known to the offender). Psychopaths typically plan their crimes meticulously, so yes, they are premeditated. That is not to say that all premeditated murderers are psycho/sociopaths.

Just as not all psychopaths are murderers – some are just extremely cruel people, who don’t appear to have any conscience about the pain and harm they do. From my experience, the rest do at least know what they have done is wrong – even if they aren’t prepared to show any remorse for it.
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June 26, 2013 7:44pm
Judith

Longknives (2,602) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 7:35 pm
—————————–

I sincerely hope you are watching TV3 at 8.30 pm then longknives.

Regardless of what ability you may think All Blacks, even ex all blacks have, they do not have the ability to travel back in time and alter factual evidence. As far as I am aware, neither does John Campbell.
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June 26, 2013 7:47pm
nasska

Judith

….”I also think we need to have ‘degrees’ of murder.”…

That’s basically where I’m coming from. Life without parole is available to the judiciary now but they show no intention of ever using it & the nutters who advocate hanging, drawing & quartering get a voice.

Society’s safety requires psychopathic murders to be kept separate from us.
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June 26, 2013 7:53pm
Pete George

If you’re not doing anything wrong, you shouldn’t have anything to hide…
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June 26, 2013 7:55pm
nasska

Fairy Tale:

One day, long, long ago, there was this woman who, surprisingly, did not whine, nag and bitch……..

But this was a long time ago…..

……and it was just ONE bloody day.
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June 26, 2013 8:01pm
OneTrack

“Judith (2,867) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 11:05 am

Please explain how hanging any murderer will prevent others from being murdered?”

Can we get an opinion from Karl Kuchenbecker on that please?
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June 26, 2013 8:02pm
Reid

….”I also think we need to have ‘degrees’ of murder.”…

That’s basically where I’m coming from. Life without parole is available to the judiciary now but they show no intention of ever using it

So why would degrees of murder prompt the judges to start doing that? They would just find a way to avoid imposing the max sentence, like they always do.

Judges aren’t supposed to decide off their own bat that sentencing someone to die inside is inhumane therefore they won’t do it, but that’s what they’ve done, off their own bat.

So how the fuck are we, the public, supposed to make our employees do what we want them to do?

Perhaps the only way is to remove from them the privilege of determining sentence for certain offences and have that set by statute. After all, if they won’t do our will, then fuck em. It’s their fault after all. If they weren’t so obdurate, then we wouldn’t have had to get the freakin job done in that way.
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June 26, 2013 8:02pm
Judith

nasska (6,737) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 7:53 pm
————————————–

They sure do need to be kept separate – and some are held beyond their sentences under special mental health conditions, but that is rare.

The judiciary are very reluctant to ever impose a maximum sentence, or even preventative detention. As far as psychopaths are concerned, they cannot be ‘fixed’. They are like they are, and will never change – however, it is often not until they have been sentenced and come under the attention of Corrections Mental Health Services, that their psychopathy is diagnosed. Too late to change the sentence.

Most psychopaths have been under CYPs attention as children/adolescents and have a life long record that indicates what they will eventually become – unfortunately the system fails to detect most of them until they progress throw the various levels of offending, and finally commit an offence that leaves a psychopathic signature.
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June 26, 2013 8:04pm
nasska

Reid

….”Perhaps the only way is to remove from them the privilege of determining sentence for certain offences and have that set by statute.”…..

Exactly why DG’s 3S legislation got legs. The public eventually had a guts full of the revolving door sentences handed out to repeat violent offenders. Strange that the only implement that gets anything through their thick legal skulls is the blunt force of a parliamentary instruction.
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June 26, 2013 8:11pm
William of Ockham

Does the fact the spelling and grammar isn’t right make the context of the statement wrong, or are you just eager to prove that being pedantic is the ‘new sexy’?

Well, Professor Malaprop, I thought you’d be pleased. Might help with your research and writing reports. You must use the word all the time. The “context” cannot be wrong, it merely signifies the “environment”. The statement may or may not be wrong. The word is wrong. Incidents, not incidences.
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June 26, 2013 8:12pm
William of Ockham

http://www.city-journal.org/2013/eon0529td.html

THEODORE DALRYMPLE
Thoughts on Woolwich
Lee Rigby’s murder tells us as much about contemporary society as it does about radical Islam.
29 May 2013
A witness to the brutal hacking death of a British soldier, Lee Rigby, a few hundred yards from his barracks in London, had the presence of mind to record the explanatory statement of one of the perpetrators, Michael Adebolajo, on his phone immediately after the crime. What Adebolajo said—his hand bloody from the attack and still holding the meat cleaver with which he carried it out—was revealing, as were his manner and body language. Together, they showed him to be the product of the utterly charmless, aggressive, and crude street culture of the less favored parts of London. The intonation of his speech was pure South London, as was the resentful tone of thwarted entitlement and its consequent self-righteousness. His every gesture was pure South London; the predatory lope with which he crossed the road after speaking into the camera was pure South London.

Adebolajo was born in London of Nigerian parents who were devout Christians. He did not learn his manners from them, therefore, but from the society around him. At one point in his life, his parents moved away from London in an attempt to separate him from bad—which is to say, criminal—influences. Adebolajo had joined a gang that stole phones from pedestrians.

It is not true that the society in which he lived offered him no opportunity for personal betterment. Adebolajo was for a time a student at Greenwich University, graduation from which, whatever the real value of the education it offered him, would have improved his chances in the job market, especially in the public sector. But it was at the university that he encountered radical Islam, that ideology that simultaneously succors people with an existential grudge against the world and flatters their inflated and inflamed self-importance. It also successfully squares the adolescent circle: the need both to conform to a peer group and to rebel against society.

(article continues)
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June 26, 2013 8:17pm
hj

On Border Security. Officers want to enter a property in pursuit of an illegal immigrant. Young Chinese man gets angry and calls them “Australian dogs”. That’s a bad example of the diversity dividend.
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June 26, 2013 8:21pm
Longknives

“I sincerely hope you are watching TV3 at 8.30 pm then longknives.”

You’re joking! TV3??
Not exactly ‘balanced’ reporting now is it Judith?
The drooling John Campbell was almost fellating Baino when the dodgy’ party-going’ jury let him walk last time- I’d take anything those Police-Hating ‘Loopy Lefties’ say with a grain of salt…
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June 26, 2013 8:24pm
Judith

William of Ockham (31) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 8:12 pm
—————————-

Well thank you very much for your care and concern. You should know that everything I write (professionally) is edited by someone else because I am known for my pathetic spelling and grammatical errors. You are not the first person to point out these sorts of errors and I’m reasonably sure you won’t be the last.

I do try, but I blame my standard 2 teacher, who insisted on standing me in the corner for being the class clown, hence I missed most of my English and spelling classes. Don’t feel sorry for me – I’ve had therapy, I’ve over it now! 🙂
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June 26, 2013 8:24pm
Longknives

“You should know that everything I write (professionally) is edited by someone else because I am known for my pathetic spelling and grammatical errors. You are not the first person to point our these sorts of errors and I’m reasonably sure you won’t be the last.”

Then I find it rather hard to believe that you ‘write’ professionally…
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June 26, 2013 8:26pm
Judith

* I’m * not *I’ve* 😛
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June 26, 2013 8:28pm
Judith

Longknives (2,604) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 8:26 pm
———————————–

That doesn’t surprise me, you think ex-All Blacks can travel back in time.

There are many people that write, doesn’t mean they are all ‘writers’.
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June 26, 2013 8:29pm
Reid

Strange that the only implement that gets anything through their thick legal skulls is the blunt force of a parliamentary instruction.

It’s not that strange if one theorises that what we’re talking about is a tiny clique of extraordinarily up-themselves people who everyone around kowtows to as part of their daily job when they prance into “their” courtroom and sit on the big chair.

For some reason that reality after living it for a few years seems to encourage arrogance and a certain isolation from the people who aren’t “of them.”

Why it’s surprising they even bother paying attention to Parliament anymore. Oh wait, they don’t, really. Much.

Of course none of you lawyers can say this sort of stuff even if you think it since you’re all Officers of the Court but I’m not so I can, and it’s great. Not all judges are like this of course but many are. Many are. And frankly, one is too many, if you’re talking about the consequences of someone in their positions having that kind of attitude.

One is too many.

It’s a shame the legal fraternity is a somewhat closed shop, since a really good A-G would go a long way toward cleaning out the deadwood in terms of these kinds of attitudes because you know what? It’s not about getting rid of the people who have these attitudes because you can’t. You can’t fire judges, for very good constitutional reasons. But what you can do is humiliate the s.o.b.’s who have these attitudes. Maybe not publicly but internally, within the profession, by exposing them for the fragile ego princeling pretenders that anyone with those attitudes in fact is, and letting them know you know, and making sure others know as well. Do that to a few of the worst offenders amongst the judiciary and watch how quickly those attitudes disappear, at least in the current generation. That’s how I’d do it.
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June 26, 2013 8:36pm
skyblue

Looks like Krudd will be PM tonight and August election in Aust.
Hope the Aussies kill Labor outright.
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June 26, 2013 8:45pm
nasska

Reid

Some of the current High Court judiciary would have come under the spell of the Arch Bitch during her too long reign of power. The scowling one oversaw legislation which effectively forced the judges to sentence at the lowest possible end of the sentence range. As we know this, with time & without outside interference, leads to watered down penalties.

Possibly the answer is actually the reverse of what you suggest….it is possible that judges who resist ALL outside influence may clip the ticket. Otherwise it is a case for natural attrition & a far more careful selection of the successors.
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June 26, 2013 8:49pm
Reid

Possibly the answer is actually the reverse of what you suggest

It usually is nasska. At least that’s what most people say when I make one…
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June 26, 2013 9:03pm
Pete George

Anyone watching 3rd degree?

Someone who was involved in the Bain debate here followed a link to a photo (of Robin Bain’s hand) which they are saying provides “compelling evidence” that Robin Bain loaded or at handled the magazine to unjam bullets.
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June 26, 2013 9:03pm
hj

Jan Logie (Frogblog) posting on The Rule of Law (re law society on the governments corner cutting)… fine, fine fine… but where does tino rangitiratanga, tikanga etc fit in here? Doesn’t seem straight and narrow, tried and true?
http://blog.greens.org.nz/2013/06/26/the-rule-of-law/
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June 26, 2013 9:05pm
nasska

Reid

….”It usually is nasska. At least that’s what most people say when I make one”….

At least you don’t take it to heart. 🙂
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June 26, 2013 9:05pm
Scott Chris

Akchully, incidents and incidences are both correct in that context.

Now isn’t that a ~~coincident.~~ coincidence.
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June 26, 2013 9:07pm
hj

Jan Logie (Keith Lockes entrails) wants us to take more refugees.

Dave Stringer · Works at Here, There And Everywhere Says:
Having witnessed a so called “refugee” family sponge off the state for over a decade, with housing and benefits keeping them despite having three earning children living at home, I am a little skeptical of most refugees these days. Especially as this family paid cash for a Wellington house a couple of weeks after they became eligible for superannuation, and so did not have to go through a means test.
That was the third house the family bought, the children bought the other two and rented them to middle class professionals while they lived in a $30 per week Housing NZ property.

then
Fluffy and Muffy say:

Dave—have you ever considered that your singular experience of one family might not represent the experiences of an incredibly diverse body of people who have experience as refugees?
…………………….

I mean anecdotal evidence isn’t evidence… unless it is positive and we are talking immigrants and refugees (in which case it is the accepted rule).
http://blog.greens.org.nz/2013/06/25/doing-our-bit/
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June 26, 2013 9:12pm
Left Right and Centre

martinh 8:07 am That was the dumbest shit you can hope to see. I don’t know who that was screened for? Braindead fuckwits? Is that the average Clive viewer? Is that what the market research told them to screen? Tabloid sensationalist hype about nothing. The only conclusion I can draw is that such a story merely represents the general sentimental ‘pain and suffering and unfairness’ of the low wage peasant classes. It’s just more bullshit to appeal to the Clive audience which apparently is one-dimensional dumbarse dipshits who wouldn’t know a shade of grey if you stuck their head up an elephant’s backside.
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June 26, 2013 9:15pm
Scott1

Pete,

they sure are dragging it out but it is a good point. I think they are probably right. You can argue the marks are something else but I think this gives David BOP innocence.
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June 26, 2013 9:17pm
dishy

PG: Yes. I think that the evidence is pretty convincing. It is probably unlikely to make an iota difference to all the experts out there who have always “known” that D Bain dunnit. That said, I am waiting for the programme to ask somebody for a contrary view – we’ve only heard one side so far.
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June 26, 2013 9:18pm
SW

I am Pete. What are your thoughts?
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June 26, 2013 9:18pm
Left Right and Centre

Pete George 9:03 pm The way Espionage and Garner speak is more annoying than a Harvey Norman advert. Unwatchable and anyway it’s a load of rush-rush-rush TV tongue-wagging mindless old horseshit. Local content good; goodness content is loco.
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June 26, 2013 9:19pm
Jimbob

Big surprise, Robin Bain was the mass murderer. Judith, get out the cheque book.
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June 26, 2013 9:20pm
hj

Pete George (18,008) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

If you’re not doing anything wrong, you shouldn’t have anything to hide…
…………………..
What are you saying. What if someone is suspected of doing something wrong. Should they be able to check a datase:
L Lockhart.. Currently under secret surveillance. Iti Fatman Currently under secret surveillance???
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June 26, 2013 9:23pm
Left Right and Centre

hj 8:21 pm Ooo… redneck stuff- choice. You know when you read about a drink-driving doctor and think… that’s weird for a doctor to do that? And then.. it’s always a foreigner. Because they’re from inferior cultures and pull stunts and take the piss all the time. Foreigners have inferior standards to Westerners overall. Something like that.
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June 26, 2013 9:24pm
Yvette

So now it is apparent why David took such care to balance the magazine on its edge near as possible to Robin’s marked thumb
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June 26, 2013 9:27pm
Pete George

Seems quite important new evidence – but it doesn’t actually prove anything.

Funny thing is I often load a similar magazine (the last time was last night) and I’ve never noticed the magazine marks on my hands. I usually wash my hands after shooting.

Just tested it and yeah, exactly the same place on my thumb.
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June 26, 2013 9:29pm
hmmokrightitis

Thank goodness we dont have the death penalty in this country huh 🙂
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June 26, 2013 9:30pm
SW

Yvette, are you suggesting David also put that mark on Robin’s hand?
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June 26, 2013 9:32pm
Pete George

That didn’t take long Yvette. Why wouldn’t David have then used that in his defence?
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June 26, 2013 9:32pm
dishy

Yvette, do tell: Did David put the marks on Robin’s thumb as well? If he did, did he just forget to point out the marks? Please explain. Or are you being facetious?
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June 26, 2013 9:34pm
Judith

Yvette (2,430) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 9:27 pm
———————————-
You have some proof that David put the cartridge on its edge, I presume, or else why would you make a comment you can’t support?
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June 26, 2013 9:34pm
Pete George

Handy links to 3rd Degree on it and to KB Bain threads: http://yournz.org/2013/06/26/david-bain-threads-on-kiwiblog/
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June 26, 2013 9:36pm
Peter

Question:

Why don’t they do a colour match of the supposed residue on the photo? They should be able to reduce it to a number (luminosity, hue, etc) which may be different values than those produced by a cut.

If that colour matches up, it’s compelling. If not, then…not so much.
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June 26, 2013 9:37pm
Yvette

Three 🙂
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June 26, 2013 9:38pm
Left Right and Centre

Viking2 12:46 pm +1
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June 26, 2013 9:38pm
Dean Papa

if it really is residue from the magazine, then it could have got there from David first unsuccessfully trying to plant the magazine in Robin’s hand, before absent-mindedly leaving it balanced on its edge beside Robin’s hand.
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June 26, 2013 9:39pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Another dickhead hits the scene.
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June 26, 2013 9:41pm
dishy

How hard is it to put a magazine in a dead man’s warm hand?
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June 26, 2013 9:42pm
Judith

Dean Papa (405) Says:
June 26th, 2013 at 9:39 pm

—————————-

Well done. You just earned me $50. I had a bet that some idiot would come in and say David put the marks on Robin’s thumb before 9.45 pm.
Please demonstrate just how trying to put a magazine in a hand, enables marks to get on the thumb in exactly the same position as loading it?
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June 26, 2013 9:44pm

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