About
Contact
Advertise

Facebook
Twitter

June 24, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 June 2013

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment251

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (251)

Login to comment or vote

nickb

Incremental change is far safer and usually more effective, as long as the change is in the right dirrection.

The only change that has ever come about from Peter Dunne’s parliamentary vote is change which is in his best interests to prolong his lifelong troughing.
0 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 12:54pm
hmmokrightitis

“That’s why you just used up four paragraphs doing exactly that with not one word to support your previous flawed arguments on the DP.”

I await evidence of that with breath on hold dearest weddy. The arguments were not flawed, they just didnt match your biased view, and as such, you resorted to childish name calling, a la the She Beast, and most other socialist commentators. But then that would make you a commie wouldnt it weddy?

Hush, your secret is safe with me 🙂
5 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 12:57pm
Rowan

Judith @ 12.16
Given the witch sniffers cling to the ‘mountain of evidence’ and ‘fatally floored’ myths then I don’t think that anything that 3rd degree comes up with will change their minds. If it finds something against David then it will also need to also explain the ‘murder’ scene to overcome the forensic proof of Robins suicide.
Seems strange that they are broadcasting this 1 month before the judicial review is before the courts.
Will watch with interest.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 12:59pm
RightNow

griff, are you claiming that the models v observations post from Spencer is not the truth?

True or not griff? Simple question. True or not?
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:05pm
Judith

Rowan (812) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 12:59 pm
——————————-

Never underestimate the witch sniffers to come up with some fantastic tale. As you know from the last one they tried to pull – when you actually get to the truth of the matter, their methods of deduction are vastly flawed.

You should see the head witch sniffer’s ability to make calculations and deductions.

He has these figures which he’s added up in one of his latest efforts and proudly publicised:

2,330,809
97,117
113,846
77,594

And his grand total 2,333,495 (which is even less than his first figure)
Such are their abilities to calculate, I won’t be the least bit surprised if they decide the cat did it.
That chief witch sniffer is one clever dude! NOT! His brain is fatally flawed.
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:08pm
Redbaiter

Another 2+ paragraphs of off topic abusive crap. Just what you said in your last four paragraphs.
4 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:09pm
Pete George

An excellent detailed look at the issues surrounding the BCSB and spying legislation from Audrey Young at The Herald – Spying on NZ: More power to watch us
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:13pm
hmmokrightitis

So, lets sum up shall we weddy?

1. People who obviously commit a crime, according to weddy, should be shot

2. If you dont agree with that positon, you are a commie prog fag loving moron

3. Weddy will state the premise, then, if challenged, insult, bluster and avoid, safe in the knowledge that if you explain, youre losing, so verbal attack is a sign that your argument is right, and that labeling someone a moron means you dont have to engage

I can see why you book out Sky City for your AGM weddy 🙂
4 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:21pm
bhudson

@PG,

Given the circumstances of his demise, the GCSB bill is hardly capable of being a lifesaver for Peter Dunne’s political career.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:24pm
Kea

hmmokrightitis , Red is Mr Spray and Walk Away. He is never able to defend is silly positions. He is lightweight.
4 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:35pm
Weihana

Kea (5,411) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 12:50 pm

Weihana, I will try typing this more slowly for you…

When you click “submit comment” it will transfer your entire post at once at the same speed. So just type as you would regularly. 🙂

I did not claim that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas.

You said:

Kea (5,411) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 9:41 am

Dennis Horne, CO2 is not a “green house gas”…

Seems fairly unequivocal to me.

You still have not provided evidence to support your claims about fairy dust. Therefore, according to your own logic, you are making a “claim”.

If magic fairy dust existed in the atmosphere then there would be evidence of it in samples and measurements of the atmosphere. There is no such evidence. I conclude therefore that fairy dust does not exist in the atmosphere. 🙂
1 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:37pm
Rowan

Judith @ 1.08
Just waiting till the October court case for KP. Then the CS witchhunt will have had 2 achievements
1. Convincing Ian Binnie of Davids innocence (remember he read all the CS/JFRB arguments)
2. Getting done at the defamation trial then they can pay through the nose for it
2 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:41pm
Scott Chris

Given the circumstances of his demise, the GCSB bill is hardly capable of being a lifesaver for Peter Dunne’s political career.

Who knows, but that is the thread Pete’s been instructed to cling to.

Peter Dunne, whistle blower, crusader for individual liberty.

Guffaw.
3 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:42pm
hmmokrightitis

See, this is what I dont get Kea. There are a number of your posts and thoughts I dont agree with. Those that interest me I will challenge, and I enjoy the sharing of debate and ideas, thats why I spend time on here, its interesting, funny and thought provoking.

Weddy doesnt harbour difference. He attacks, and then says others do just that, when he’s obviously, to everyone else, full of name calling bluster. You would think he would seek to engage and discuss, rather than revert quickly to the childish name calling stupidity.

If youre trying to influence, or even stimulate debate, you dont act like an arse.
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:43pm
Griff

Are you as thick as kea right now?

religion Right Now is a facet Mr Roy Spencer that by his own admission makes his pronouncements on science of any sort unscientific.

And just to keep you happy I read Spencers post
Usual drivel from the denial network,
Why does he use the satellite temperature record? he is the one who generates it so he knows the problems inherent in measuring temperature from a few thousand miles away.
Answer because if he ignores the reality of the problems inherent in satellite measurement of surface temperature though the total atmosphere he can spin his bullshite. I have yet to see him directly reference the problems with his satellite measurements on his site.
yet……
http://www.scottchurchdirect.com/docs/MSU-Troposphere-Review01.pdf

http://www.skepticalscience.com/satellite-measurements-warming-troposphere.htm

John Christy and Roy Spencer of the University of Alabama published a series of papers starting about 1990 that implied the troposphere was warming at a much slower rate than the surface temperature record and climate models indicated Spencer and Christy (1992). One early version of their data even showed a cooling trend (Christy et al. 1995).

1992 Makes a Long history of climate change denial from mr Spencer and mr Christy.
0 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:43pm
Kea

hmmokrightitis , Red tries to bully people and totally over looks common ground. If you disagree with even a minor point you are labeled a “prog fuckwit”. It is all or nothing with Red and that is not a sign of a well balanced mind.
3 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 1:50pm
Judith

Rowan (813) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 1:41 pm
—————————

I am seriously thinking of attending that court case, I reckon it could be entertaining. It’s not often you see someone go to such lengths to prove themselves, and their friends, total loonies. The judge is going to be highly impressed when they try to re-run the previous trials, and argue that they are pertinent to the case in question. They still haven’t got it through to their tiny wee small insignificant minds, that what they think about the innocence or guilt of another party, does not give them reason to slander someone else.

Like the singing career, it will all be down the gurgler, and of course, true to KP’s style, it will be everyone’s fault, but their own.
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:02pm
Scott Chris

Did someone say Green House Gas? (he says whilst emitting a Green House Gas)

But wait! It’s not Green! It’s colourless! So how the fuck can it be a Green House Gas if it’s not Green?

Fuckin’ no such thing.
3 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:04pm
RightNow

So your contention is that the satellites and balloon measurements aren’t acceptable griff?
For your edification here are the differences in trend between satellites and HadCrut4 and Gistemp. A stunning trend difference of 0.1 deg C from 1979 until now.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/uah/plot/rss/plot/gistemp/from:1979/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1979/plot/uah/trend/plot/rss/trend/offset:-.1/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1979/trend/offset:-.25/plot/gistemp/from:1979/trend/offset:-.35

Go and look at the models v observations comparison and add that 0.1 deg C and see how much difference it makes.
3 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:07pm
Judith

Kea (5,419) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 1:50 pm
——————————

Reddy’s ok. You just have to think about him like any other tantrum throwing two year old, and you’ll actually start to like him.
He only has three insults, you’re either a commie, socialist or progressive and frankly, I’ve been called much much worse. He’s cute, blow him a kiss – he just loves it!! 🙂
4 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:08pm
Pete George

Scott Chris, as I’ve said many times, I’m not instructed by anyone.

First and foremost getting the GCSB Amendment Bill right is important for all New Zealanders. It could have far reaching effects, done in secrecy. So it’s important that the legislation is balanced and sound, with adequate checks embedded in the system that have some independence from politics.

Dunne can and probably will play a significant role in ensuring this happens, unless Winston Peters changes his mind and supports National without giving the bill proper scrutiny.

My main interest at the moment is contributing to providing information and promoting awareness and discussion on the bill.

The GCSB process will help restore a little credibility for Dunne, but he’s got a lot to do (and there’s a long time for much to happen) befiore the next election.

His party has an opportunity to become a credible option, but that’s dependent on a number of things and a number of people. It will be very difficult and will require major changes – but there is an opportunity to build virtually a new party, albeit with a solid policy foundation.

There’s certainly room in our political spectrum for an innovative centre based party. But such a party has to offer what people are prepared to vote for, and UF is a long way from that at the moment.
1 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:14pm
Dennis Horne

Because an explanation is wrong and even dishonest it does not follow the phenomenon does not exist. Carbon dioxide is an important greenhouse gas and man has altered the amount in the atmosphere significantly. It is there absurd to wave this issue away.

I know enough to see the problems with measurement, which is the essence of all experimental science. My guess is the next 10 years the trends are going to be much easier to discern. It’s a bit like diagnosis of disease: damned difficult early on when the signs and symptoms are intermittent and vague, gets easier with severity and time, easy when the patient is dead.
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:18pm
liarbors a joke

Death to the wild dog..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8831765/Suspect-in-attacks-on-elderly-arrested
5 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:20pm
Dennis Horne

@Scott Chris. CO2 is not green, it is colourless, clear. A glass house gas.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:22pm
Griff

from Roy “god says” site
a comment that he has not replied to

Glenn Tamblyn says:
June 8, 2013 at 1:02 AM

Roy
Some comments.
You have plotted TMT from UAH & RSS against models for 20N to 20S.

Exactly what is the model data? Surface Temps; temps at some altitude; temps averaged over the entire troposphere; some weighted average of the troposphere results? This is unclear and needs to be spelled out if there is to be any meaningful comparison.

Surely you recognize that the TMT channel is biased low due to the fact that around 1/4 of the signal for TMT originates in the Stratosphere which has been cooling significantly. Thus TMT is not an accurate measure of what has happened in the middle Troposphere. You most definitely should be aware of that since you and John Christy produced the first version of the TLT product many years ago in part to try and remove this cool bias from TMT. So a direct comparison between TMT and the models isn’t valid.

Alternatively you might apply the weighting function for the TMT channel to the temperature profile produced by each model in order to produce what the TMT channel would expect to see for each models output. That would be the a valid way of comparing them.

But just comparing TMT to unweighted model output isn’t valid.

Why didn’t you also include the TTT product from RSS that is based on the methods of Fu & Johansson 2005 which is an alternative approach to showing a mid tropospheric temperature series with much of the stratospherics cool bias removed? This is giving a trend of 0.128/decade vs the TMT product from RSS which gives 0.091/decade – a significant difference.

Then there is the 3rd group producing temperature satellite products at STAR/Nesdis which you have not included. (http://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/smcd/emb/mscat/index.php)

Why didn’t you include their results? They produce a TMT product that is reporting a trend of 0.124/decade without any compensation for stratospheric cooling. If the ratio between the RSS TMT and TTT products is any indicator, STAR/Nesdis with the Fu & Johansson algorithm applied might well give a trend something like 0.17 which would bring it up into the range of the model results

Surely also you recognize that many researchers don’t believe that the balloon data is terribly reliable, with upper atmosphere data particularly being biased cool due to equipment design issues.

Are the model results single runs or do they represent multiple runs for each model?

If you used some of the approaches I suggest then up to 2000 you might actually see reasonable agreement between the models and data.

There is divergence after 2000. Did you evaluate the models to see which ones reproduce the change in vertical distribution of heat buildup in the oceans that has been observed in the ARGO data in the last decade or so? These would be the models that one would wish to compare observations against to evaluate how well they are performing.

As to looking at Climate Sensitivity from this data, as I point out, when some approach is used to compensate for the cooling bias in the satellite data then model/observation agreement from 1975-2000 is likely to be fairly good.

And with the change in heating distribution in the oceans over the last decade any attempt to estimate CS from atmospheric temperatures during this period will significantly underestimate the value. One decades data is too short a time to attempt this anyway.

Even then, this approach at best can still only estimate Transient CS. Full Equilibrium Sensitivity can’t be found by looking at short term data
1 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:23pm
RightNow

Oh noes, Glenn Tamblyn responded to Roy “god says” Spencer without dismissing him as a religious nutter? How can you take Glenn Tamblyn seriously?
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:32pm
Griff

RIGHT NOW
I have given evidence of mr spencers belief system.
This evidence is that mr Spencer believes that god made the earth for man and man can not change the climate Is his religious based standpoint.
You claim that this starting point is valid for scientific research.
,
To me anyone whose religious belief is the starting point for their research does theology not science.
0 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:41pm
RightNow

“You claim that this starting point is valid for scientific research.”

I have never claimed that. What I have said frequently is ignore who is presenting and take the information on its own merits.

You’re working very hard to stick your fingers in your ears and yell “I can’t hear you”
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:44pm
Weihana

Pete George (17,956) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 2:14 pm

First and foremost getting the GCSB Amendment Bill right is important for all New Zealanders. It could have far reaching effects, done in secrecy. So it’s important that the legislation is balanced and sound, with adequate checks embedded in the system that have some independence from politics.

First and foremost we should just get rid of the GCSB altogether. We do not need wannabe James Bond types running around dreaming up excuses for their existence.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:47pm
Kea

Weihana, welcome back. It appears your “buzz” has worn off 🙂

I share your concern that agencies like the GCSB will tend to make work for themselves, which will not benefit the public.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:52pm
Kea

Dennis Horne, CO2 is also an important plant food that produces oxygen and it would be absurd to wave that away. Are you concerned there will be too much plant life/oxygen and if not why ?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 2:55pm
Weihana

We should also get rid of the military: an expensive jobs program that provides no actual protection and is simply used to make New Zealand feel like it is “doing its bit” without actually knowing how the activities we are sometimes dragged into actually relate to New Zealand’s domestic security.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 3:00pm
Kea

One law for all ? Yeah right !

A Hawke’s Bay entertainer has been jailed after he lured a teenager to his house for a modelling shoot and sexually violated him.

He extended name suppression because he believed publication could harm the man’s family.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8834143/Entertainer-jailed-for-sexual-violation
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 3:08pm
Viking2

George Orwell would have had a field day in New Zealand circa 2013.”

Mr Peters compared Dame Susan, media and others to Orwell’s Ministry of Truth because he felt the impact of immigration was being covered up.

He stressed that he was not against all trade with China nor was he against allowing skilled Chinese to enter New Zealand.

But he was critical of New Zealand’s fair trade deal because he felt it favoured China too heavily, and he was also concerned about Chinese investment in forests, farms and factories, fast-tracked visas for tourists and students, and property speculation in Auckland.

Mr Peters was especially opposed to what he felt were lenient immigration policies which allowed New Zealand to become a “rest home” for elderly Chinese.

New Zealand First would change superannuation rules so migrants would be paid out according to how much time they had spent in New Zealand, he said.

“A person of 10 years residence … will be entitled to roughly a quarter of New Zealand Superannuation,” Mr Peter said.
By Isaac Davison @Isaac_Davison Email Isaac

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10892608
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 3:17pm
HB

@Kea
the article has some specific details with regards to the offenders identity – age, job and that he lives in Hawkes Bay and had a 10 year old daughter (three years ago)
It must be a relatively small number who fit that description – I hope no innocent gets wrongly accused.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 3:20pm
Pete George

First and foremost we should just get rid of the GCSB altogether.

There’s a strong case to make that part of the discussion, but it’s a part of the Amendment Bill options. Labour are calling for a wider inquiry.
0 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 3:25pm
graham

You have to feel just a tiny bit sorry for Peter Dunne. Graham McCready has decided to join everybody else in having a go at him, and has laid four ”informations” (which is a new phrase to me) before the Wellington District Court today.

He’s alleging breaches against the Crimes Act and fraud – basically saying that Dunne is claiming parliamentary funding as the leader of a political party, when UnitedFuture had insufficient numbers to declare that the party had 500 members.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8834691/Prosecution-of-Dunne-sought
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 3:26pm
Redbaiter

HmmmmmmmmmohfuckwhatashitheadIam- So far I said we should re-institute the death penalty as a barrier to an increasingly amoral society and intolerable levels of violence.

You said that the death penalty should not be re-introduced because of the danger of executing innocent people like Arthur Alan Thomas.

I said that I did not want to see the death penalty applied in cases where there was only circumstantial evidence or any real doubt, but only in cases where there was surety concerning a guilty verdict.

Since then you have written hundreds of words and made maybe three of four or more comments but have not taken the argument one step further.

All those words and all of those comments have amazingly been focused on what a bastard Redbaiter is and how he never argues the issue. None so blind as those who will not see.
4 9
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 3:40pm
muggins

Rowan (813) Says:

June 24th, 2013 at 1:41 pm
Judith @ 1.08
Just waiting till the October court case for KP. Then the CS witchhunt will have had 2 achievements
1. Convincing Ian Binnie of Davids innocence (remember he read all the CS/JFRB arguments)
2. Getting done at the defamation trial

Rowan, if you read the Bain/Binnie interview then you will see that Bain lied to Binnie on numerous occasions,but Binnie didn’t pick up on any of those lies . He even believed Bain when he told him that goat story.
And Bain told him he had sinced walked from Heath Street to 65 Every Street and in took him considerably longer than his estimate. Three of our members have walked that walk recently, all under three minutes and one of them was over 60.
If Bain did walk that walk again,which I very much doubt, then he must have stopped for a smoke if it took him over three minutes.
2 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 3:46pm
Longknives

“then it will also need to also explain the ‘murder’ scene to overcome the forensic proof of Robins suicide.”

This comment is a joke…right??
4 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 3:59pm
Judith

Redbaiter (3,565) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 3:40 pm

I said that I did not want to see the death penalty applied in cases where there was only circumstantial evidence or any real doubt, but only in cases where there was surety concerning a guilty verdict.

But that is just the thing Redbaiter. When Thomas was first convicted probably 99.9% of the country thought he was guilty. It was really only family and friends that stood up and argued for him, for quite a few years. We sold everything we could to raise the money to defend him, including bloody roast chicken raffles in the pub, by the hundreds!!

There was more than circumstantial evidence against him, because the ever-so-high-integrity Hutton planted it, but that was not known at that stage.

Going by your statement above, Thomas would have been executed after the first trial, and if not, certainly after the second trial.

There is no going back from death. Official apologies just don’t have the same effect when the person is dead. .
4 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:02pm
Judith

graham (1,923) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 3:26 pm
You have to feel just a tiny bit sorry for Peter Dunne.
——————————-

Nope, sorry, I’m a hard old cow and I don’t feel the slightest bit sorry for him. He wasn’t the bloke next door, or the butcher or the local pub owner. He was an elected member of parliament who people put their trust in to tell the truth and do what was expected of him – which includes taking part in official investigations if required. He was being paid to do what he was elected to do. He didn’t do that – so no, he deserves what he’s got, and if I was in charge, he wouldn’t be collecting pay anymore either. If he had told the truth the minute Henry asked him for it, he’d even have my support – he didn’t.

It’s time our politicians started setting examples the rest of NZ can be proud of.
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:08pm
Griff

No right now I am pointing out that information compiled by mr Spencer is not in support of scientific knowledge it is in support his theological driven view that man can not change the climate.

Mr Spencer is using the data for 20 to 20 degrees against climate models that are for the whole earth. The models are claimed to be set to 1979 in this post so they should all read the same at this date……. They dont. Two very obvious faults with the information.

Without spending the next day researching the models used and the satellite record it is imposable to tell the accuracy of his post. It is far easier to just look at why he is posting. This is easily discerned by his views on climate science. Man can not change gods work Any warming is due to natural variability. This is Mr Spencers faith based position

Mr Spencer does not compile such evidence in the interest of scientific inquiry but in the interest of proving his religious belief system.

A perusal of the comments on his website reveals the usual claims of a global conspiracy 😆 Whackjob alert.

Why do you insist on alt science blogs rather than the scientific position of the main stream IPCC on climate change?
0 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:10pm
Redbaiter

Going by your statement above, Thomas would have been executed after the first trial, and if not, certainly after the second trial.

Oh bullshit. Thomas would not even have quaified for a DP verdict. Man you commies so often clutch at straws. Your claim is just a delusional fabrication that gives absolutely no regard to the point of my argument. And yet you expect me to have unending patience and debate the fucking issue with you. God save us.

Let me try one more time, just to show that I do have some patience stored up for idiots.

Arthur Allan Thomas- Wouldn’t qualify.

Fort Hood shooter- would qualify.

David Bain- wouldn’t qualify (sadly)

David Grey- Would qualify

But as I said- not just for murder.The arsehole who attacked that women at the weekend and has 90 convictions- If he admits it or there is a strong case for conviction, he’d be executed as well.
2 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:16pm
RightNow

“Why do you insist on alt science blogs rather than the scientific position of the main stream IPCC on climate change?”

What do accuse my of denying? Do you deny that the IPCC says the sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 without feedbacks is around 1.2 deg C?
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:17pm
Dennis Horne

Kea (5,426) Says: June 24th, 2013 at 2:55 pm
Dennis Horne, CO2 is also an important plant food that produces oxygen and it would be absurd to wave that away. Are you concerned there will be too much plant life/oxygen and if not why?

Hydrochloric acid, HCl, is an important industrial chemical. It is highly corrosive and denatures proteins. It would severely burn animal flesh. Therefore it is not found in the human body, or is it?

Potassium cyanide, KCN, is highly poisonous. Are potassium, carbon and nitrogen poisonous or necessary for life? Yes/No/I see what you mean.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:18pm
Rowan

Yawn
Heard it all before muggins
All you have is buff and bluster and large amounts of unsubstantiated bullshit.
Now lets just watch the space and see what happens with your cult leader in the defamation trial!
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:20pm
Harriet

Hmmocraptus#

“…..Better 10 guilty go free than 1 innocent hang (paraphrased and cant remember who said it, nor be arsed googling to find out )….”

That’s crap.

FES reckons we can’t introduce the death penalty in NZ because the appeals court ain’t that great. It’s a lame excuse.

In the US however they have a very good appeals system and on average it takes 8 whole yrs for a death sentance prisoner’s lawyer to exhaust them . Due also to DNA ect being used as evidence in most murder cases ‘Innocent’ people being put to death is extremely rare. NZ could introduce the death penalty so long as ‘significant’ DNA ect is used in the conviction, without it, a ‘full life’ sentance can suffice in it’s place.

And if you are going to talk about ‘innocence’ then bear in mind that virtually all people who are murdered are innocent. To argue that we should ‘prevent’ the extremely rare occasion of an innocent convict being wrongfully executed is not justice – but the undermining of the Santity of Life that underpins the reason murder is dissallowed in society in the first place. ‘innocence’ too is a lame excuse.

Maori?

Garrett reakons the death penalty will never be re-introduced because it will be Maori who will get executed and other Maori will sit outside the prison the night before and sing maori songs in front of international media ect. However:

In the US it is mostly WHITE people who are given death sentances. For some reason juries don’t give out too many death sentances to blacks under their legal sentancing laws. One or two states may however do so.

What Garrett completely misses is that the likes of all the Nia Glassies won’t be the singers!

As the legal minds say “Creating laws based upon exceptions are bad laws.” and “The laws are made to deter most people most of the time.”

Hang them – and save nearly ALL the truely innocent who could be murdered. 😎
1 6
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:20pm
Judith

Redbaiter (3,566) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 4:16 pm
———————————

There’s that two year old coming out again.

How does making a comment about the death penalty make me a communist? I just love the way you rationalise!

Thomas would have qualified because there was solid forensic evidence that tied him to the murders.

The only way he wouldn’t have qualified was by the fact he said he didn’t do it. If you are going to use the death penalty and exclude those that say they didn’t do it, then no one will meet the criteria.

Thomas was found guilty twice only solid evidence. Hutton et al did not stand up in court and say “look here, lock him up, but don’t give the DP because actually, we planted evidence and adjusted stuff to make it look like he did it”.

It’s all very well printing a list saying who in your opinion would and wouldn’t qualify, but unless you are going to extend that further to say why they wouldn’t, then like most two year old’s, there can be no reasoning with you. (PS when did I change from being a socialist to a commie?)
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:22pm
Kea

“Why do you insist on alt science blogs rather than the scientific position of the main stream IPCC on climate change?”

Griff, Why do you insist on atheist blogs rather than the main stream theological sites on religion ?
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:22pm
muggins

Judith (2,818) Says:

June 24th, 2013 at 1:08 pm
Rowan (812) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 12:59 pm
——————————-

Never underestimate the witch sniffers to come up with some fantastic tale. As you know from the last one they tried to pull – when you actually get to the truth of the matter, their methods of deduction are vastly flawed.

You should see the head witch sniffer’s ability to make calculations and deductions.

He has these figures which he’s added up in one of his latest efforts and proudly publicised:

2,330,809
97,117
113,846
77,594

And his grand total 2,333,495 (which is even less than his first figure)
Such are their abilities to calculate, I won’t be the least bit surprised if they decide the cat did it.
That chief witch sniffer is one clever dude! NOT! His brain is fatally flawed.

Judith, for your benefit, the figures are

Original trial.
High Court 149180
Court of Appeal 101208
Privy Council 455737
Retrial and appeals
High Court 2338809
Court of Appeal 97117
Privy Council 113846
Supreme Court 77594
Total 3333491

Happy now?
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:22pm
Kea

“(PS when did I change from being a socialist to a commie?)”

Judith, I have graduated to being a “prog fuckwit troll” 🙂
2 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:24pm
Nostalgia-NZ

‘Keeping Stock (8,908) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 9:05 am
@ Chuck – Lundy’s appeal struck a rather large speed-bump when the Crown lawyer disclosed that his defence actually HAD the “new evidence” at his trial, but made the decision not to put it in front of the jury…’

Haven’t seen that KS, I think your imagination is getting ahead of you.
2 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:25pm
Judith

Harriet (1,987) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 4:20 pm
————————————-

How will hanging murderers prevent murder?

Please do tell us?

There are many countries that have or have had the death penalty, and there murder rates did not drop because of it, nor did they increase when they got rid it.
0 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:26pm
Rowan

Redbaiter
Not many would qualify for it then. Would you need a confession. How would David Gray not qualify (had he lived)? how about the murdering POS that killed Jade Bayliss or the scumbag that killed Teresa Cormack? no confession in either of these but strong proof of there involvement.
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:27pm
Redbaiter

“unless you are going to extend that further to say why they wouldn’t,”

FFS, you’re so exasperating. You cannot honestly expect me to list for you the differences in the circumstances of the Fort Hood Shooter or Daid grey as opposed to Bain and Thomas???

The differences stick out like dog’s balls, and anyone who cannot see them without help is beyond rational argument.

PS Communism and socialism are one and the same, just that the latter is the train and the former is the destination. You’re a communist because you want to use government to transfer wealth, and you also like it big and strong.
2 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:27pm
Judith

Kea (5,428) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
————————————

WOW, so he’s learning new words!

Gee, he must really like you to come up with something that special Kea!
2 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:28pm
RightNow

griff:
“Mr Spencer is using the data for 20 to 20 degrees against climate models that are for the whole earth.”
And I have posted GISTEMP and HadCrut4 to compare as well. How do the models compare against them?

“The models are claimed to be set to 1979 in this post so they should all read the same at this date……. They dont”

the models and observations have been plotted so that their respective 1979-2012 trend lines all intersect in 1979, which we believe is the most meaningful way to simultaneously plot the models’ results for comparison to the observations.

There, that’s dealt with your “Two very obvious faults with the information”. Anything else?
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:28pm
Redbaiter

“There are many countries that have or have had the death penalty, and there murder rates did not drop because of it, nor did they increase when they got rid it.”

A lie.

How are the drugs going in Singapore?
3 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:31pm
Harriet

Judith liike FES is another kiwi who thinks that the police can put it over the Appeals Courts.

If the appeals courts are that fucken hopeless they should then be re-formed!

The Police get re-formed when their incompetance is shown up! 😎
0 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:33pm
muggins

Rowan (814) Says:

June 24th, 2013 at 4:20 pm
Yawn
Heard it all before muggins
All you have is buff and bluster and large amounts of unsubstantiated bullshit.
Now lets just watch the space and see what happens with your cult leader in the defamation trial

Rowan ,it is you that belong to a cult, not me. Your cult is called the bullshitters cult.
Hey, why don’t you go down to Dunedin and walk from Heath Street to 65 Every Street. Time yourself. I bet you do it under three minutes. Then you will know who is telling the truth.
And what about Bain telling Binnie there was no lock on the lounge door? .When a friend of Arawa’s visited her just shortly before the murders Arawa had to go and get a key from David’s room so she could unlock the lounge door. Arawa asked her friend to keep a watch out for David because he didn’t like anyone going into his room. Binnie should have known that.
No wonder his report had to be peer reviewed.
2 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:33pm
Rowan

Longknives @ 3.59
No sorry you are the joke but feel free to give the explanation that Raftery and the crown couldn’t.
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:34pm
Judith

Redbaiter (3,567) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 4:27 pm
————————————–

No I don’t expect you to list the differences, but this is what you said

I said that I did not want to see the death penalty applied in cases where there was only circumstantial evidence or any real doubt, but only in cases where there was surety concerning a guilty verdict.

and as I said to you, with the Thomas case there was no doubt for many, for many years. The case was cut and dried with the forensic evidence that was presented.

If there was any doubt, then the jury would have found him not guilty. How are you going to decide which guilty verdict is a real one, and which isn’t, and if it isn’t, why are you keeping the person locked up anyway? I know what you are trying to say, but in law, I can’t see how it can be applied. Perhaps one of our legal beagles can tell us.
1 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:35pm
Kea

Hydrochloric acid, HCl, is an important industrial chemical. It is highly corrosive and denatures proteins. It would severely burn animal flesh. Therefore it is not found in the human body, or is it?
Potassium cyanide, KCN, is highly poisonous. Are potassium, carbon and nitrogen poisonous or necessary for life? Yes/No/I see what you mean.

Dennis Horne, So what ?

Of all the properties of CO2, why do you only refer to one of them ? There are other components to the greenhouse effect, but nothing else will feed plants and support life like CO2 does. The defining characteristic of CO2 is not its contribution to the greenhouse effect. Yet you constantly refer to it as a greenhouse gas. Do you refer to water vapour as a greenhouse gas ?

One thing I do know is that CO2 is not defined that way in science. You refer to it as a greenhouse gas to imply it is a damaging pollutant. It is not.

It would be like defining people as hazardous bags of Hydrochloric acid, as they contain some.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:37pm
Judith

muggins (2,367) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

Your cult is called the bullshitters cult.

Do we really need to bore all the members of Kiwiblog by going through this again?

Bullshitting 101: The detective was in the door way when David Bain had his medical examination and he said David Bain was never naked. (Muggins)

Answer: Email to Muggins from the police: There was no member of the police in the room when David Bain had his medical examination …. David Bain was alone with Dr Pryde and Police officer stood in doorway for 30 seconds to get spare clothes and so on.

Muggins, you are the bullshitter, you were caught, the OIA reveals all of your lies and even shows you trying to tell Ms Collins off because she wouldn’t take 10 mins to personally search some information for you! FFS – grow up before you get too old.
2 5
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:41pm
Rowan

Because retard
I don’t need to prove anything to you, no one does, how many minutes it takes to get from the corner of Heath St to Every St is neither here nor there and not very material to the case. As usual you cannot substantiate what you say, your proof of the ‘lock’ to the door?, and an unsubstantiated statement suddenly ‘remembered’ after 15 years doesn’t cut it.
2 5
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:44pm
Harriet

Judith#

If the appeals courts can save the likes of Arthur Thomas – then it can also save the lives of those who are sentanced to death.

I think the appeals courts in NZ are just fine!

The appeals process on avearge takes 8 yrs in the US, and there is good reason to say that people who are sentanced to death in NZ should have their last appeal no less than 10 yrs and no more than 11 yrs after their first conviction, to take into account future technologies that may prove their innocence.

And with regard to Nia Glassie – tell ya feminist mates we’re gonna hang the bros to save the sisters! 😎
0 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:49pm
Judith

Harriet (1,989) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 4:49 pm
—————————————-

Thomas was not saved by the appeal court Harriet.

Which is why his case is the perfect argument against the Death Penalty.
2 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:50pm
Dennis Horne

@Kea. You are being silly. I am talking about CO2 as a greenhouse gas because we are talking about greenhouse effect and in particular the fact we are putting CO2 into the atmosphere. I make a very nice drink from CO2, carbonic acid. Am I supposed to bring that into the conversation? Were did I imply CO2 was a pollutant, in the normal sense of the meaning of the word?

If I am taking a bath I don’t consider the greenhouse effect of the water vapour. (I turn on the heater.)

Since I have a degree from a university ranked in the top handful in the world, I think you can assume I am able to understand simple stuff without being distracted by bullshit or going off half-cock. The climate is not simple, no matter how much you say it is or wish it were.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 4:59pm
Pete George

A gem from Winston Peters today:

Mr Peters said there were parallels with New Zealand in 2013 and George Orwell’s novel, 1984, which deals with the themes of the destruction of freedom of speech.

“Being told the facts even though the facts hurt is a part of life, and in recent years there has been a shift from telling people the truth.

“George Orwell would have had a field day in New Zealand circa 2013,” he said.

http://www.3news.co.nz/NZ-like-an-Orwell-novel–Peters/tabid/1607/articleID/302564/Default.aspx

He would know all about facts (and lack of them). And freedom of speech. Brendon Horan had freedom of speech, perhaps he tried to speak too much. Peters exercised his freedom to boot Horan from his party. And now the remaining MPs have the freedom to say what will keep them where they are.
1 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:00pm
Pauleastbay

How are the drugs going in Singapore?

The Peoples Republic of Singapore has a thriving illicit drugs trade just like most countries on earth.

Red, please move to Singapore, go on please. . You will have lived your ideas ,you will be independently wealthy because you have all the answers, so there is nothing stopping you from going to a better place – go on give it a go. I for one will be waiting for your reports from the socialist paradise that is Singapore.
5 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:10pm
muggins

Judith (2,824) Says:

June 24th, 2013 at 4:41 pm
muggins (2,367) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 4:33 pm
Rowan
Your cult is called the bullshitters cult.

Do we really need to bore all the members of Kiwiblog by going through this again?

Bullshitting 101: The detective was in the door way when David Bain had his medical examination and he said David Bain was never naked. (Muggins)

Answer: Email to Muggins from the police: There was no member of the police in the room when David Bain had his medical examination …. David Bain was alone with Dr Pryde and Police officer stood in doorway for 30 seconds to get spare clothes and so on.

Muggins, you are the bullshitter, you were caught, the OIA reveals all of your lies and even shows you trying to tell Ms Collins off because she wouldn’t take 10 mins to personally search some information for you! FFS – grow up before you get too old.

Judith, you are a bigger liar than David Bain. No, I take that back. No-one is a bigger liar than him.
David Bain told Binnie he was completely naked. We only have his word for that. No-one else saw him completely naked,not even the detective who handed over clothes he got from the Salvation Army.
And it will come as a complete surprise to Judith Collins that I tried to tell her something,seeing as I have never spoken to her.
The OIA reveals all my lies,what a load of rubbish.
And who was it said she could see David Bain’s torso in a photo? Care to show us that photo?
4 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:11pm
Rowan

Redbaiter

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10469726

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darryl_Beamish

This is why we don’t have the death penalty any more. Darryl Beamish was originally sentanced to death before it was reduced to life in prison. Despite a confession from the actual killer it took over 40 years to have his conviction overturned
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:16pm
Judith

muggins (2,368) Says:
June 24th, 2013 at 5:11 pm
————————–

You emailed Ms Collins and asked for information and when they passed your request on to the Ministry you packed a sad and emailed Ms Collins office saying how hard could it be for her to spend a few minutes finding the information you wanted.

I am not going to discuss this with you further out of respect for this blog that has seen these arguments before. I have copies of all your correspondence with the MOJ and the Police and know exactly what was said. You bullshitted to everyone on here and you’re still at it. Anyone that watched the Bain threads would have seen your statements and know you are now lying, so I don’t know who you are trying to convince – perhaps you are trying to convince yourself you aren’t a liar – good luck with that – the rest of us know it for sure. Now, Goodnight – I won’t be addressing you again on this matter.
1 5
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:20pm
muggins

Rowan (817) Says:

June 24th, 2013 at 4:44 pm
Muggins
I don’t need to prove anything to you, no one does, how many minutes it takes to get from the corner of Heath St to Every St is neither here nor there and not very material to the case. As usual you cannot substantiate what you say, your proof of the ‘lock’ to the door?, and an unsubstantiated statement suddenly ‘remembered’ after 15 years doesn’t cut it.

Rowan,
So are you saying it doesn’t matter what time David Bain arrived home ? It seems to matter to him.
As for that lock on the lounge door, it wasn’t “remembered” 15 years later any more than that coversation David Bain had with his aunt when he told her he had been wearing a pair of his mother’s glasses was remembered five years later.
Bain lied to Binnie about those glasses, just like he lied to him about that lounge door not having a lock.
3 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:20pm
Bad__Cat

Death Penalty, AGW, Bain, yawn! A quick flick through and of to see if Whale’s got more interesting stuff.
3 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:22pm
Rowan

Muggins
So the proof that DB was ‘never strip searched’ is?
as usual non existent if the police were not present then there is no proof that he wasn’t despite what you try to say.
Given that it was not contested by CL at the retrial then all we have is another conspiracy theory from you.
Oh dear

Do you believe Muggins that the Crewe garden was sieve searched by Hutton et all in the Thomas case?
2 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:22pm
Kea

Since I have a degree from a university ranked in the top handful in the world, I think you can assume I am able to understand simple stuff without being distracted by bullshit or going off half-cock. The climate is not simple, no matter how much you say it is or wish it were.

Dennis, you are now resorting to attributing views to me I do not hold. I have said a number of times that climate is too chaotic for accurate predictions to be made. It is the alarmists who claim otherwise, inspite of their predictions being demonstrably wrong again and again.

The reason you will not face the reality that AGW theory is wrong has nothing to do with science and everything to do with you wishing to fit in with your peers. You have been taught that the responsible position to take for an educated professional is to “believe” in man made climate change. It is about social conditioning, not about science.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:24pm
Rowan

Just like you are a lying parasite on Kiwiblog Muggins, get it into your thick skull that your belief is going to have absolutely zero effect on whatever the outcome of the Bain saga. I don’t care what you believe but the amount of lies you perpatrate is beyond belief.
There is much more to the case than a 1 or 2 minute time differential
1 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:28pm
Griff

http://theconsensusproject.com/
The Consensus Project measured the level of consensus in published, peer-reviewed climate research that humans are causing global warming. In the most comprehensive analysis to date, we analysed 21 years worth of peer-reviewed papers on “global warming” or “global climate change”. Among the 12,465 papers, we identified over 4,014 abstracts authored by 10,188 scientists that stated a position on human-caused global warming. Among those 4,014 abstracts, 97.1% endorse the consensus. Among the 10,188 scientists, 98.4% endorse the consensus
1 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:30pm
muggins

Rowan (820) Says:

June 24th, 2013 at 5:22 pm
Muggins
So the proof that DB was ‘never strip searched’ is?
as usual non existent if the police were not present then there is no proof that he wasn’t despite what you try to say.
Given that it was not contested by CL at the retrial then all we have is another conspiracy theory from you.
Oh dear

Rowan, where is the proof that David Bain was strip-searched.? Why did the Crown have to prove that he was when the defence could not prove that he wasn’t?
4 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:33pm
Kea

Global Warming Alarmists Caught Doctoring ’97-Percent Consensus’ Claims

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/05/30/global-warming-alarmists-caught-doctoring-97-percent-consensus-claims/
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:34pm
Rowan

Yawn Muggins I really can’t be bothered with you
There is/was no dispute over the strip search between crown law and the defence. The only one disputing it is you and you are not worth the time of day.
So why don’t you f… of and stop adding to DPFs blog count for the sake of it
2 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:38pm
joana

Susan Devoy has proven that she is very much a political , social and intellectual lightweight. The UK is really thriving under Orwellian precepts..Here in NZ , Orwell belongs on a dusty old shelf as does Devoy herself. She should be out coaching squash and doing something decent for the epidemic of childhood obesity. She is just another NZer promoted beyond her abilities
Horan fooled Winston..He is a conman.. NZ produces a lot of them!!! but Winston earned the respect of many in sacking him as soon as he had clear evidence of wrong doing.
PG I admire your loyalty to Peter Dunne because I always admire loyalty but Dunne’s time in the sweat lodge is not over yet..Graham McCready has laid four charges against him in court.. If Peter Dunne really understood his situation , he would have already resigned as an MP…..Expect more bad publicity until he does so.
3 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:40pm
muggins

Rowan (820) Says:

June 24th, 2013 at 5:28 pm
Just like you are a lying parasite on Kiwiblog Muggins, get it into your thick skull that your belief is going to have absolutely zero effect on whatever the outcome of the Bain saga. I don’t care what you believe but the amount of lies you perpatrate is beyond belief.
There is much more to the case than a 1 or 2 minute time differential

Rowan,
You seem to be getting me mixed up with that other blogger.
And it appears you are saying the computer turn on time isn’t important. Well, I guess I can agree with you there, seeing as it is we don’t know for sure when it was turned on. Anywhere between 6.39 and 6.49am ,apparently.
But David Bain seems to think it is important because he lied to Binnie about how long it took him to do that walk. Why doesn’t he just admit he could have been home just after 6.42am.?
3 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:40pm
muggins

Rowan (821) Says:

June 24th, 2013 at 5:38 pm
Yawn Muggins I really can’t be bothered with you
There is/was no dispute over the strip search between crown law and the defence. The only one disputing it is you and you are not worth the time of day.
So why don’t you f… of and stop adding to DPFs blog count for the sake of it

Rowan,
The defence were never able to prove David Bain was strip-searched,so of course there was no dispute. Only two people know the answer to that question. Dr Pryde never said he strip-searched David Bain. David Bain said he was completely naked but we only have his word for that. So we will never know for certain whether those marks on his torso were there when Dr Pryde examined him. Bain has never been able to explain them and neither have you. I reckon he got them in that struggle with Stephen. Have you got a better idea? Or any idea at all?
3 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:49pm
RightNow

http://www.therightclimatestuff.com/
SUMMARY OF PRELIMINARY REPORT
The Right Climate Stuff Research Team
JANUARY 23, 2013

The Right Climate Stuff (TRCS) research team is a volunteer group of more than 20 scientists and engineers who are primarily retired veterans of our manned space program. We began our investigation into the controversial issue of Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) in February 2012. We have reviewed, studied and debated available data and scientific reports regarding many factors that affect temperature variations of the earth’s surface and atmosphere. We have also studied the well-documented beneficial, as well as potentially detrimental effects, of more CO2 in our atmosphere. This report provides a summary of findings that we have reached at this point into our investigation.

1. The science that predicts the extent of Anthropogenic Global Warming is not settled science.

2. There is no convincing physical evidence of Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming. Most of the alarm regarding AGW results from output of unvalidated computer models. We understand scientific arguments regarding how doubling CO2 in the atmosphere over a hundred years or more (if possible) can have a small direct warming effect, but we question the accuracy of feedback simulations in current models computing climate system responses that amplify CO2 effects. Efforts to estimate climate sensitivity to CO2 based solely on physical data have large uncertainties because many factors affect global temperatures, and CO2 levels rise in the atmosphere after the earth warms due to other factors. While paleoclimate data clearly show CO2 levels rise and fall in the atmosphere hundreds of years after temperature rises and falls due to other causes, the evidence is very weak to support claims of a catastrophic rise in global temperatures caused by CO2 emissions related to human activity.

3. Computer models need to be validated before being used in critical decision-making. Our manned aerospace backgrounds in dealing with models of complex phenomena have convinced us that this rule must be followed to avoid decisions with serious unintended consequences.

4. Because there is no immediate threat of global warming requiring swift corrective action, we have time to study global climate changes and improve our prediction accuracy. While there are many benefits due to some global warming, the major threats appear to be associated with a net loss of Greenland and Antarctica ice sheet mass that would contribute to a gradual sea-level rise. The history, current trends, and specific causes of ice sheet melting and ice accumulation by precipitation must be better understood before determining how best to respond to threats of accelerated sea-level rise.

5. Our US government is over-reacting to concerns about Anthropogenic Global Warming. More CO2 in the atmosphere would be beneficial for forest and crop growth to support the earth’s growing population, so control of CO2 emissions is not an obvious best solution to hyped-up concerns regarding AGW. Eventually the earth will run out of fossil fuels and alternative energy sources will be required. Market forces will (and should) play a big role in this transition to alternative energy sources. Government funding of promising research and development objectives for alternative fuels appears to be a better option at this time than expenditures of enormous resources to limit CO2 emissions.

6. A wider range of solution options should be studied for global warming or cooling threats from any credible cause. CO2 effectiveness in controlling global average temperatures or sea levels has not been established. More reliable and greater control authority may be available from engineering solutions that would accommodate the beneficial aspects of more CO2 in the atmosphere.
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 5:53pm
publicwatchdog

FYI Kiwibloggers

24 June 2013

‘Open Letter’ from Auckland Mayoral candidate Penny Bright to Deputy Mayor Penny Hulse:

“Are you a genuine community advocate or corporate /property developer MOUTH PIECE?”

Dear Deputy Mayor Penny Hulse,

In the 2010 Auckland Council election, you stood as an ‘Independent’, and quoted the following glowing endorsement from Sir Ron Carter, about your ‘commitment and ability to look after business interests’ :

http://www.elections2010.co.nz/2010/candidates/penny-hulse

Commercial Activities
I think the endorsement of my campaign for Auckland Council by Sir Ron Carter speaks volumes about my commitment and ability to look after business interests. Ron says “Our city needs Councillors who will apply their knowledge and experience for the good of all. A great Council team will be built from those who respect and commit to each other. Penny’s wisdom and consensus style will help create a Council for all Aucklanders. We need her on our Council.”

Who is Sir Ron Carter:

In 2010 – Sir Ron Carter was the Chair of the Committee for Auckland:

http://www.unitec.ac.nz/news-events/ftf/unitec-forum-for-the-future-2010.cfm

Session 1, July 20th – Why? – What’s the case for creating a super city? Why do we need to change regional governance structures to do so?

Panelists:

Peter Salmon, Chairman of the Royal Commission on Auckland Governance,
Bob Harvey, Waitakere City Mayor, and
Sir Ron Carter, Committee for Auckland Chairman.
___________________________________________________________

Who are the Committee for Auckland:

http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz/

“Our vision: Auckland as a global city.

In 2013 we will be an influential voice for all of Auckland, creating cross-sectoral solutions to the city’s issues and

Focusing on a future beyond the electoral cycle helping New Zealand’s only world-ranked city to achieve its potential for the region and the country

The Committee for Auckland (CFA) has played a prominent role in galvanising positive change for our city. Our members are all specialists in the city’s issues and fervent advocates for its success.
Having contributed significantly to the new shape of Auckland as one city, 2013 is the platform for a re-focused Committee to drive the agenda for Auckland as a world leading destination as well as the welcoming gateway to New Zealand.”

Membership of the Committee for Auckland:

http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz/membership

“Membership to the Committee for Auckland is by invitation.
Members meet quarterly and are invited to be involved in those aspects of the work programme that interest them.

Members are Chairs of Boards, Directors and Chief Executives

Corporate Membership annual fee $10,000. ……”

The current list of members of the Committee for Auckland:

http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz/membership/member-organisations

(It is interesting to note how members of this VERY powerful private lobby group are intertwined with Auckland Council and Auckland Council ‘Council Controlled Organisations’ (CCOs).

For starters……………

Brett O’Riley Chief Executive Officer ATEED

Robert Domm Chief Executive Officer Regional Facilities Auckland

Mark Ford Chief Executive Officer Watercare

John Dalzell Chief Executive Officer Waterfront Auckland
___________________________________________________________

Also, how the Committee for Auckland includes key members of the NZ Property Council and property developers, such as:

Connal Townsend National Director Property Council of NZ

Evan Davies Chief Executive Officer Todd Property Ltd
___________________________________________________________

On the face of it, Deputy Mayor Penny Hulse, your range of ‘community credentials’ appears impressive:

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/about-us/about-penny-hulse/

About Penny Hulse

Penny has strong links with her community and cares passionately about the Auckland region.

Her community involvement includes Patron of Waitakere Special Olympics, Community Waitakere Charitable Trust, Henderson Riding for the Disabled, The Trust Waitakere Brass Band, Northern Football Association, Trustee of Swanson Railway Station Trust, Waitakere Anti Violence Essential Services and former Director of EECA Board.

Penny’s special areas of interest are Climate Change, Sustainable City Development, Environmental Advocacy, Community Development and Youth. …………”
__________________________________________________________

However, the reality, in my considered opinion, is that you cannot work simultaneously both for the community (the ‘99%’ ), and corporations/property developers (the ‘1%’).

It is my intention as a 2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate to continue to ‘blow the whistle’, against the the ‘corrupt corporate coup’ which set up the Auckland ‘Supercity’, and those who are serving the interests of the ‘1%’.

In my considered opinion, Auckland Council Deputy Mayor Penny Hulse, you are NOT a genuine community advocate – you are in fact, a corporate /property developer MOUTH PIECE, working for the ‘1%’.

No disrespect – but I shall ‘call it as I see it’.
(I don’t expect you to like it).

So be it.

Yours sincerely

Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation’ campaigner
2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate
…………………………………………………………………….
(For more evidence linking the Committee for Auckland with Auckland Council :

http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/OCCUPY-AUCKLAND-APPEAL-APPLICATION-BY-APPELLANT-BRIGHT-TO-ADDUCE-NEW-EVIDENCE-pdf.pdf
0 7
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:02pm
Longknives

Resorting to childish name calling when you are clearly losing an argument Rowan?
What a nasty little Karam Cult-member you are….
3 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:08pm
wat dabney

“The Consensus Project measured the level of consensus in published, peer-reviewed climate research that humans are causing global warming. ”

Griff, for all your endless rantings you really don’t have the first clue about this subject do you.

Here’s why you have embarrassed yourself yet again:

Skeptics assert that anthropogenic CO2 will likely have a warming effect.

Where they disagree with the alarmists is in the extent of that warming.

Hence your link to this worthless “Consensus Project” is to display a complete misunderstanding of the issue. Some warming, which you seem to imagine is in dispute, is actually the starting point of the whole debate.

The calculated and agreed direct effects of CO2 warming are modest.

What the alarmists have done – with no scientific justification whatsoever – is to program positive feebacks into their computer “models”, turning the agreed modest effect into the famous catastrophic fantasy which idiots like you have swallowed whole.

It is these imagined positive feedbacks which are the only issue.

Now, can you provide a link to evidence showing that these supposed feedbacks have been found in reality?

No. You can’t. Because they don’t exist outside of the computer programs. And hence there hasn’t been the runaway warming which these “models” predicted.

Do you now understand why your link to the “Consensus Project” tells us nothing, apart from your complete ignorance? Or shall I fetch the sock-puppets?
3 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:11pm
Viking2

If you are ready for the adventure of a lifetime, try this :

A. Go to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq or Iran illegally. Never mind immigration quotas, visas, international law, or any of that nonsense. Demand a free house, benefits and food.

B. Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for you and your entire family.

C. Demand that all nurses and doctors be fluent in English, and that all food be cooked according to your specifications in the hospital.

D. Demand free local government forms, bulletins, etc. Be printed in English.

E. Procreate abundantly.

F. Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible reproductive Behaviour with, ‘It is a cultural thing; you wouldn’t understand.’

G. Keep your original identity strong. Fly your home country’s national flag from your rooftop, or proudly display it in your front window, or on your car bumper.

H. Speak only English at home and in public, and make sure that your children do likewise.

I. Demand classes on English culture in the Muslim school system.

J. Demand a local country driving license or national insurance number equivalent

K. This will afford other legal rights and will go far to legitimise your unauthorised, illegal, presence in Pakistan , Afghanistan or Iraq

L. Drive around with no car tax or insurance and ignore local traffic laws.

M. Insist that the Police teach English to all its officers.

N. Organise protest marches against your host country, inciting violence against non-white, non-Christians, and the government that let you in.

Good luck! You’ll soon be dead..

It would never happen in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq or Iran (or any other country in the world for that matter) except in the:
UK, US, Canada or Australia,
Because we are run by soft, politically correct politicians that are too scared to ‘offend’ anyone.
5 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:11pm
Viking2

The New Zealand Initiative
The Lucky Culture

The Rise of a New Ruling Class

A public forum with Nick Cater

Both Australia and New Zealand pride themselves on their egalitarianism: being classless societies where everyone gets a fair go and where people are the masters of their own fate. But is this still the case?

Nick Cater, a senior editor at The Australian newspaper, believes that this culture of egalitarianism is under threat.

Cater’s controversial new book The Lucky Culture observes how since the 1970s a new tertiary-educated class of people have emerged who not only think their education gives them better academic skills, but crucially also a sense of moral superiority over their fellow citizens.

Cater claims that this development has created ‘a new ruling class’ who genuinely believe that they are better equipped, intellectually and morally, to tackle the problems facing society. Their views are now shaping public debates from climate change to poverty alleviation, genetic engineering, aspiration and even the notion of progress itself.

Though his book is written in an Australian context, many of Cater’s observations have resonance in other countries, including New Zealand. And his questions are as relevant here as they are on the other side of the Tasman: Are we witnessing the emergence of an exclusive political class with little experience outside of university and politics? What does this mean for our social and political debates? And are we losing our egalitarian spirit?

Join us for a thought-provoking lecture by one of Australia’s best-known journalists. This is an event not to be missed.

About the speaker:
Nick Cater

Nick Cater has worked as journalist for more than 30 years. He began his career in Britain as a studio manager at the BBC before joining News Limited in 1989. He worked in Adelaide, Canberra and as a foreign correspondent in Asia before joining The Daily Telegraph in Sydney in 1997. He has been a senior editorial executive at The Australian since 2004. Nick Cater graduated in sociology at the University of Exeter in 1980.

Registrations are essential and can be made by clicking below. Events will be held in Wellington, Auckland and Christchurch. If you would like to invite your colleagues, please forward this invitation onto them.

Wellington

When:
Monday, 15 July 2013
5.45 – 5.55 pm Arrive
6.00 – 7.00 pm Seminar

Where:
The New Zealand Initiative
Level 12, Bayleys Building,
36 Brandon Street,
Wellington

______________________
Auckland

When:
Tuesday, 16 July 2013
5.45 – 5.55 pm Arrive
6.00 – 7.00 pm Seminar

Where:
University of Auckland
Engineering Building 401,
Room 401 -431, Symonds
Street, Auckland

______________________
Christchurch

When:
Wednesday, 17 July 2013
5.15 – 5.30 pm Arrive
5.30 – 7.00 pm Seminar

Where:
University of Canterbury
South Arts Lecture A4,
University Drive,
Christchurch

Register here for:
Wellington, 15 July

Register here for:
Auckland, 16 July

Register here for:
Christchurch, 17 July

http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=368ce55919dfdca57fc0d8cb6&id=e32e033eea&e=aff73844ed

Oh yea isn’t it so true.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:13pm
Griff

20 scientists and engineers who are primarily retired veterans of our manned Apollo pace program
😆
Astronauts are not climate scientists retired nassa engineers are not climate scientists
😆
The Apollo program finished in 1972 A bunch of old fogies who may have been cutting edge rocket scientists over forty years ago. it would also help there case if the website actually named them.

More junk from the denial echochamber.

FFS right now is that it?
A religious nut whack and retired eighty plus year old ex astronauts.
Barrel at the bottom
Almost as stupid as quoting James “heartland” Taylor a paid lobbyist for the oil industry on climate change.
0 5
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:15pm
Kanz

It seems this will put an end to the Bain arguments, one way or the other, it sounds fascinating.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=516301431758085&set=vb.469721536416075&type=2&theater
1 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:18pm
wat dabney

The catastrophic failure of the computer models to predict recent trends:

http://c3headlines.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b58035970c01901d7f0efa970b-pi

That’s what happens when you program in runaway feedback effecs which are entirely missing from nature.

http://c3headlines.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b58035970c0191036b8bb2970c-pi
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:19pm
nasska

It’s the least we can do. 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4kpl2q60dg2w6o8/sks_clime-aid.jpg
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:26pm
Manolo

Whore-chasing: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/8834793/Prosecution-of-Dunne-sought
3 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:35pm
Griff

Go wat wat a un known un linked site
real science comes from alt science blogs 😆
especially ones that use the outpourings of a religious nutwhack to prove climate science wrong.
we have already discussed mr Roy “god made it” Spencer and his religious based insistence that man can not alter gods work.
Then Wanking watwat links to the same drivel else where in the echo chamber. How unusual 😆

Epic failure to critically examine the source of your science 😆
0 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:35pm
Manolo

The animal is caught. Will the justice system give the beast a lenient sentence (again)?
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/elderly-urged-cautious-after-attack-suspect-s-arrest-5473914
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:37pm
RightNow

Gruff, you bluster a lot and tell us not to listen to people you disagree with, but when asked a very straightforward question about what the IPCC says is the sensitivity for a doubling of CO2 without feedbacks, you dodge the question. What are you afraid of?
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 24, 2013 6:48pm

More comments:

‹
1
2
3
›

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« FAA reviewing device takeoff rules

Caygill vs Cosgrove? »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 37.4K other subscribers

Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

More lawlessness from National
No Right Turn
TARGETED BEIRUT: THE 1983 MARINE BARRACKS BOMBING AND THE UNTOLD ORIGIN STORY OF THE WAR ON TERROR by Jack Carr and James M. Scott
Utopia
Shock & Surprise: Lawyers oppose removal of lawyers' gravy train
Not PC
Seymour’s bill split the House – but (as is shown by the 68-54 vote after an ill-tempered debate) not “down the middle”
Point of Order
Thankfully we said nope to dope
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
Daily review 15/11/2024
The Standard
MEDIAWATCH: Willie Jackson’s fiery speech that had Gallery cheering
The Daily Blog
Government only partially adheres to Waitangi Tribunal order, as tensions heat up
No Minister
Sowell says
Hompaddock
A NEW DEGREE COURSE FOR MASSEY
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
A Day of Reckoning
NZCPR
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Pretty (il)legal
Croaking Cassandra
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

Facebook
Twitter
FourSquare
Instagram
LinkedIn
Google+

Archives
Disclosure Statement
Editorial Policy
Privacy Policy
Complaints Policy
Comments Policy

Design by cre8d