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June 16, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 16 June 2013

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Scott Chris

Judge David Harvey has set a legal precedent in ruling that persistent derogatory blogging can be covered by an anti-harassment law.
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June 16, 2013 8:08am
Manolo

Would someone get rid of the bastard and tyrant Mugabe?
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/breaking-news/african-leaders-urge-mugabe-to-delay-vote/story-e6freoo6-1226664489683
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June 16, 2013 8:10am
Manolo

Does it mean we have to be kind to you, Scott? 😀
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June 16, 2013 8:11am
Mobile Michael

Trevor Mallard mulling options over Whaleoil? 😉
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June 16, 2013 8:11am
Chuck Bird

Woman, 36, bears child of 11-year-old boy

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890674

I know I mentioned this yesterday but it has just occurred to me that there are a couple of things missed or not stated in this article.

Firstly, this woman denies the sexual contact. After this amount of time why has a DNA test determined whether or not the boy is the father?

Secondly, does these woman unsupervised access let alone custody of any other children?

I hope to find answers to these important questions.
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June 16, 2013 8:16am
Pete George

Rodney Hide’s Sunday Herald column is a fair and perceptive look at Peter Dunne’s downfall.

It was Dunne’s basic goodness that did for him. Politicians leak all the time. Helen Clark was masterful. But they don’t get caught. That’s because they know what they’re doing.

There is the possibility of an improper relationship with the journalist. But I don’t think so.

And then bang: his 30-year political career is toast. He struggles to explain his behaviour and reads of his misdeeds believing it must be about someone else.

Keeping Stock also commented:

A career’s worth of service has been undone by a momentary lapse in Peter Dunne’s judgment. It is an unfortunate epitaph.

That’s probably a widespread impression, but don’t write Dunne’s career off yet. We don’t quite know yet whether it’s the end of his career.

There are opportunities for Dunne to exit his political career leaving a significant impression if he chooses to see out this term – in fact more of a legacy than being a reliable middle of the road MP and competent Minister of Revenue.

And even if he decides he’s had enough and resigns now (I wouldn’t blame him) the Psychotic Substances Bill is progressing towards it’s second reading with wide support in Parliament. It has been taken over by the new Associate Minister of Health but it’s thanks to years of effort by Dunne.

This could be a ground breaking bill both here and elsewhere in the world.

And with the resurgence in membership in United Future he could leave his party in better shape than it’s been in for a long time.

It’s far from certain Dunne won’t stand again in Ohariu. If his party can look like it might get a few percent it will be invaluable to National’s chances, and would improve Labour’s options.

There’s no doubt the events of the last few weeks have hit him hard, but don’t rule out a notable bounce back.

Hide on Dunne.
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June 16, 2013 8:27am
Keeping Stock

Big Bruv will be gutted this morning. How he hates it when the All Blacks not only win but also play extremely well. The defence last night was reminiscent of a certain Sunday night in October 2011.
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June 16, 2013 8:30am
Kea

A lawyer has won a harassment case against a blogger who launched an online campaign to ruin her reputation, setting a major precedent extending the scope of anti-stalking laws.

A major kick in the guts for freedom of expression. All on the basis of someones [claimed] “feelings”.
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June 16, 2013 8:38am
Redbaiter

Former GOP vice presidential candidate and Alaska governor Sarah Palin told a Washington audience Saturday that the U.S. should not get involved in the Syrian civil war.

Palin argued that the U.S. should not intervene in any Middle East conflict as long as President Obama remains in office.
“Until we have a commander in chief who knows what he is doing….let Allah sort it out!” she told the Faith and Freedom Coalition.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/305789-palin-slams-intervention-in-syria-let-allah-sort-it-out#ixzz2WJ7mInXH
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June 16, 2013 8:57am
Kea

Good on Palin. Obama makes Bush look like a foreign policy genius and peace activist.
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June 16, 2013 9:02am
Redbaiter

Ted Cruz praises Palin-

“Governor Palin is a friend and a true patriot,” Cruz e-mails. “I have always admired her passion to defend the Constitution and her courage to speak truth to power.” Nor has he forgotten how her endorsement gave him a boost at a crucial time during the primary: “I will forever be thankful for her tremendous support in my campaign.”

“The time she has spent traveling the nation to support conservative candidates and promote conservative causes reflects her deep love for our country and a genuine desire to see the principles of our Founding Fathers restored,” Cruz adds. “I’m proud to stand with Sarah Palin, alongside millions of Americans who are grateful for her fearless voice for liberty.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/351137/sarah-palins-still-game-katrina-trinko
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June 16, 2013 9:06am
UglyTruth

A major kick in the guts for freedom of expression.

Tell us how slandering people is a good thing, Kea.
Inquiring minds want to know.
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June 16, 2013 9:09am
Nostalgia-NZ

KS it was more a commanding performance than the WCF. It was a tight match despite the score, the French ‘won’ the second half last week and they toiled manfully for 80 minutes last night. The difference I think was the line out thanks to Whitelock and the pack went up a gear. Some of the tries were ‘unfair’ in that they shouldn’t have been scored and possibly no other team in world rugby could have manufactured such tries under pressure. Smith and the re-vitalised Ranger are dynamite. I hope that something is done about Ranger’s contract, perhaps somebody like you might find the $300,000 to settle the matter!
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June 16, 2013 9:14am
Kea

Tell us how slandering people is a good thing, Kea.
Inquiring minds want to know

Ugly Truth, Slander is a purely subjective personal assessment. So is being “offended”. They are both used to shut down freedom of expression.

You regularly “slander” people with your conspiracy theories. You accuse people of mass poisoning of the population, a hideous crime. You have an entire web site “slandering” Judge Richard Russell.

In my view you should be free to do those things and people are free to evaluate your claims on their merits.
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June 16, 2013 9:19am
Nostalgia-NZ

Brookbanks comments may have been edited but he would certainly be aware that the Act also includes after the specifics ‘or in any other way,’ such as hate-siters threatening the partners and children of others on line or breaking their right to anonymity. Good to see the costs award.
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June 16, 2013 9:21am
mikenmild

At some point your freedom of expression can turn into defamation or, as in this case, harassment. People have a right to protect their good name against untrue attacks.
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June 16, 2013 9:22am
Nostalgia-NZ

The word slander isn’t the term used in NZ Kea, try to keep up with the modern times.
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June 16, 2013 9:24am
Kea

Nostalgia-NZ , slander was the term used by Ugly Truth in his question to me.

Your “feelings” do not trump other peoples right to freedom of expression. Get over yourself little man, it is not about “you”.
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June 16, 2013 9:27am
Griff

You regularly “slander” people with your conspiracy theories.
😆
Whos into conspirowhacky?
KEA
Who makes up stuff?
KEA
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June 16, 2013 9:28am
Redbaiter

We reap what we sow. In the western world, feminism’s unsurprising outcome-

Fueled by immigration and high rates of birth, particularly among Hispanics, racial and ethnic minorities are growing more rapidly in numbers than whites. The decline in the U.S. white population has been occurring more quickly than expected, resulting in the first “natural decrease” for whites — deaths exceeding births — in more than a century, census data show.

Read more:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/13/deaths-among-white-americans-now-outpace-birth-rate/#ixzz2WK4i1iEL
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June 16, 2013 9:31am
Kea

mikenmild (6,853) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 9:22 am
At some point your freedom of expression can turn into defamation or, as in this case, harassment. People have a right to protect their good name against untrue attacks.

Bullshit. That is the line used by manipulative cowards trying to avoid accountability. When weasels like you are held to account for their wrong doing they simply cry defamation or harassment. Who the fuck do you think you are ?

I am grossly “offended” by your attempts to “slander” and “harass” me for defending freedom of expression. If you do not stop immediately you will be reported to the authorities. Does that work for you ?
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June 16, 2013 9:33am
UglyTruth

Ugly Truth, Slander is a purely subjective personal assessment.

Bullshit, Kea. Slander involves making a false statement against someone.

You regularly “slander” people with your conspiracy theories.

Really? Got any facts to back up your accusation?

You accuse people of mass poisoning of the population, a hideous crime.

Do you deny this actually happens? Fluoride is a poison.

You have an entire web site “slandering” Judge Richard Russell.

Wrong. It’s not all about him, and nothing that I said about him is untrue.

Can you say hypocrite, Kea? Because that is what you are.
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June 16, 2013 9:33am
Nostalgia-NZ

Kea. Right of expression isn’t the right to tell lies, it has to be factual raised from credible sources of which newspapers don’t count. Not that it’s any of your business Kea but I passed ‘average’ height in my early teens and continue to grow. Whatever the situation is your case, also of which I don’t care, the description to you would apply to your intellect and the need to win points even over the incorrect use of a word.
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June 16, 2013 9:34am
Kea

Griff, even if it were true, it is my right to say what I want. People can decide what to make of it themselves. They do not need a lying fanatic like you telling them what to think.
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June 16, 2013 9:35am
Keeping Stock

Nostalgia-NZ said

I hope that something is done about Ranger’s contract, perhaps somebody like you might find the $300,000 to settle the matter!

So do I NNZ, but it won’t be me. If I had enough dosh to fork out $300k to sort Rene Ranger’s contract, I sure-as-eggs wouldn’t be working far too many hours a week to keep a medium sized business running!

That Ben Smith try was the defining moment of the match though. The AB’s defended 30-plus phases on their own line, Cane got the charge-down, and a couple of passes later Smith was in under the posts. It was revenge for that 1994 Try From the End of the World at Eden Park, and you’re dead right; the All Blacks are the only side in the world that would have the immediate instinct to turn defence into attack like that; it was simply stunning.
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June 16, 2013 9:38am
Redbaiter

“Liberals have wrecked cities and nations. And what rises out of the wreckage is not some progressive utopia, but oases of petty progressive fascism surrounded by a growing darkness of unmanageable and ungovernable territories and people. The dark age isn’t coming. It’s already here.”

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/little-brother-in-big-city.html#sthash.lqQiI7qf.dpuf
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June 16, 2013 9:38am
Kea

Ugly Truth, you really are a miserable little coward. You make outrageous claims about people and organisations with never an ounce of evidence. Yet you have the cheek to deny others freedom of expression.

In the sort of hell hole you advocate, with only approved points of view allowed, it is nutters like you who would suffer the most.
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June 16, 2013 9:38am
Kea

Ugly, you better hope no one reading this clicks on your name and goes to your conspiracy web site targeting a respected member of the Judiciary, who is also a decent down to earth bloke. Then you are going to have a major credibility crisis 🙂
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June 16, 2013 9:42am
UglyTruth

Ugly Truth, you really are a miserable little coward. You make outrageous claims about people and organisations with never an ounce of evidence.

Project much Kea?
Like I’ve said before, the amount of shit that you post is legendary. And you are the worst kind of hypocrite, falsely accusing others of that which you are guilty of.

If I accuse people I make sure that I have the facts to back it up.

What I am advocating is the recognition of the unlawful nature of slander. This has nothing to do with freedom of expression of opinion.
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June 16, 2013 9:48am
mikenmild

“Kea is a fuckwit.” Not defamatory because it is a true statement.
“Kea make good sense”. Not true, but also not defamatory.
“Kea molests children”. Defamatory – highly damaging and also not true (so far as we know).
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June 16, 2013 9:51am
Griff

Yes kea shall we discus a couple of your posts yesterday visavis lying?
how about claiming that a paper on oil industry engineers views on AGW was representative of scientist as a whole.

Your post was either of two things.

!: Ignorance . The writer you quoted is on record as saying he does not read scientific papers* so has an excuse for his misrepresentation. Are you also someone who comments on papers they have not read? this would make you a whackjob.

2:lying. You actually did read the paper yet chose to misrepresent it any way.This makes you a bullshitting whackjob.

*James Delingpole’ On reading scientific papers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wmuhKzYp4s&feature=player_embedded
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June 16, 2013 9:52am
Judith

Chuck Bird (3,542) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 8:16 am
——————————-

The first question – yes, if indeed there hasn’t been any sexual contact, then certainly DNA tests should be done. However, as the child is no longer in her care, it is not her decision that would allow the child to be tested.

The second question of course, rests on the answer of the first question. It could very well be that the young person has concocted stories for attention or some other reason. It would be interesting to know what other evidence there is apart from his telling his principal? An interesting case.
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June 16, 2013 9:56am
Judith

Keeping Stock (8,887) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 8:30 am
——————————–

Weren’t they fantastic. That last try was ‘one for the books!’. 🙂
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June 16, 2013 9:58am
Judith

Kea (5,178) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 8:38 am
————————————-

There is a very big difference between freedom of speech and harassment based on falsehoods. Just because you may not like a person, that does not give you the right to make up lies or misrepresent them in public. That is not freedom of speech, that is persecution. I agree that we should be allowed to share our opinions and any moves to prevent people from doing that is not on. But there is a difference between sharing an opinion and passing something off as a fact, when it is not, and using that misrepresentation to harass someone.
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June 16, 2013 10:02am
Kea

mikenmild (6,854) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 9:51 am
“Kea is a fuckwit.” Not defamatory because it is a true statement.
“Kea make good sense”. Not true, but also not defamatory.
“Kea molests children”. Defamatory – highly damaging and also not true (so far as we know).

The first two claims are opinions not facts.

The last could be true, how would you know ? And if I did molest children, and you found out, I could simply claim “DEFAMATION” to silence you.

Once again, your feelings are not a measure of anything and should not be used to restrict freedom of expression. The underlying arrogance of your position is remarkable. In effect you think you should decide what others can say. I say fuck you and over my dead body.
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June 16, 2013 10:03am
Kea

Judith, the claims made in the article referred to were in fact true. She was on the game and dealt P.

What you are really saying is the truth should be hidden if it hurts someones “feelings”. I say fuck you.
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June 16, 2013 10:05am
mikenmild

Some good news from Iran:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/15/hassan_rouhani_iranian_reformist_candidate_takes_early_lead_in_vote.html
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June 16, 2013 10:07am
Scott Chris

I’d have thought David Farrar’s persistent haranguing of Rusty Norman and the Greens might be considered harrassment under this new interpretation of the law….

Perhaps the judge has over-reached on this one.
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June 16, 2013 10:14am
Scott Chris

Some good news from Iran:

Yeah. Kinda went under the radar a bit. Almost a sense of disappointment in the media that Ahmed-dinner-jacket won’t be around to demonise any more.
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June 16, 2013 10:16am
Judith

Kea (5,180) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 10:05 am
————————————-

No, I am not saying that at all Kea.

If the facts are true, then they can be given, however, from my understanding the facts were not presented exactly, they were exaggerated, and other factors were included, that turned it into harassment. That is the person interfered in her targets ability to enjoy the status afforded to any other free member of society.

Harassment is not just the matter of truth telling, but it is to do with the manner in which a persons (the victims) life is affected by the actions of the other person. Even if telling the truth, they do so in a manner that interferes in that persons ability to live like any other member of society, then it is harassment. E.G. if I paid to have signs put in bus stops that said you were a ‘fuckwit’, there are some that might say that was true (I do not think you are) and therefore the signs were an opinion, however, it could seriously impede on your life, maybe even lose you your job – therefore, it is harassment.
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June 16, 2013 10:17am
UglyTruth

The last could be true, how would you know ? And if I did molest children, and you found out, I could simply claim “DEFAMATION” to silence you.

Opinion or not, Mikenmild’s assertion that you are a fuckwit isn’t far from the mark, Kea.

Any allegation of defamation can be effectively countered by the defence of truth. In you hypothetical example you could not lawfully claim defamation, if you tried to and the facts of the molestation were know then you would have only made your situation worse for yourself.
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June 16, 2013 10:18am
Judith

Scott Chris (4,927) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 10:14 am
———————————–

There are many situations in which such things could be determined as harassment in general. However, what is also taken into account is the lifestyle of the victim. If they are a politician, then it is accepted that a certain amount of criticism will occur, and people will publicly express their opinions, however, if, for example those people started writing letters to the MP’s mothers, and family members, and other such behaviour, then it could be deemed as harassment.
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June 16, 2013 10:19am
Griff

K iddy E rogenous A rsehole?*

That would be offensive language.
If we did actually take up such a cry against you Kea
Then tracked you down and started to harass you on other forums, at work….

It would be possible to cause you lots of griff grief. 😆

It becomes an issue of your rights not my right of freedom of speech.

*Illustrative purpose only.
I at know way think of or wish to label kea as a child molester.

He is of course a pathetic wingnut who has deep seated trauma leaving him with an emotionally driven need for attention.
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June 16, 2013 10:20am
Kea

It is remarkable that my defense of freedom of expression would meet with so much resistance from people who regularly express their opinions on a blog. The unselfconscious hypocrisy is breathtaking and shows profound lack of insight. Every single counter position could be turned on its author.

No more so than with Ugly Truth who levels the most bizarre and evil accusations at other people on a daily basis, but is unable to provide a shred of credible evidence.
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June 16, 2013 10:26am
mikenmild

Kea makes money from child pornography – don’t listen to his nonsense about freedom of expression.
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June 16, 2013 10:29am
Kea

Griff, bring it on. I credit people with enough common sense to see through people like you. If you did manage to annoy me a bit, I would not go crying to the authorities, though you would wish I had taken that option.
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June 16, 2013 10:30am
Kea

mikenmild, guys like you are the allies of child porn dealers and anyone else who has done wrong but does not want to be held to account. You arrogantly assume that you alone have the ability to decide what can be said and what can not.

I do not assume to know the merits of every one else’s views, so I believe in freedom of expression. No slimy slippery, buts, ifs, and other weasel words.
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June 16, 2013 10:35am
mikenmild

Kea is just trying to deflect attention from his horrible crimes.
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June 16, 2013 10:37am
Judith

Kea (5,182) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 10:26 am
—————————

In essence you are right Kea, but the difference or the defining point comes depending on how the particular behaviour interferes on that individuals right to enjoy the same lifestyle as any other free member of society. If the statements start impeding on that right, then they could be deemed as harassment.
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June 16, 2013 10:40am
Scott Chris

If they are a politician, then it is accepted that a certain amount of criticism will occur, and people will publicly express their opinions

Yes, that’s a fair point.
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June 16, 2013 10:42am
UglyTruth

It is remarkable that my defense of freedom of expression would meet with so much resistance from people who regularly express their opinions on a blog.

Stop avoiding the issue, Kea. Expressing an opinion, eg “I think Kea is a hypocrite” is quite different from a direct accusation, eg “Kea is a hypocrite”.

Every single counter position could be turned on its author.

No, you the only hypocrite in this debate, Kea.

No more so than with Ugly Truth who levels the most bizarre and evil accusations at other people on a daily basis, but is unable to provide a shred of credible evidence.

And where is your evidence of this, Kea?

It is of the same calibre a your false accusations rebutted in this previous post?
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/06/general_debate_16_june_2013.html/comment-page-1#comment-1159146
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June 16, 2013 10:43am
Kea

Judith, That assessment is too subjective to be enforced through the courts.
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June 16, 2013 10:45am
Fletch

You regularly “slander” people with your conspiracy theories.

Actually, if it is written down it is technically “libel” isn’t it?
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June 16, 2013 10:50am
Kea

From Ugly Truths website. Is this “defamation” or simply mental illness ? (note that I defend his freedom either way)

The purpose of this website is to present information about a remedy for judicial fraud which occurs in New Zealand courts when they are unable to obtain jurisdiction by consent. In September 2011 Judge Richard Russell admitted to comitting fraud, and he said that it was due to “the rules”. The fraud related to his misrepresentation of the facts regarding the existence of a pleading.

Judge Russell did not admit any such thing. That is a lie. The whole site is a confused mish-mash of nonsense that Ugly has tried to present as evidence of a conspiracy. I note that he is happy to appeal to legal recourse on the issue of defamation, but has devoted an entire web site to advancing the idea our government has no right to make law or govern. He throws in a bit about “Chemtrails” as well !

Remarkable stuff

http://www.actsinjunction.info/home.html
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June 16, 2013 10:55am
Tauhei Notts

It is General Debate so I think I am allowed to write this.
I got a $30 speed camera ticket for going 107 kilometres per hour at Bombay on State Highway One.
It happened on the Monday morning of Queen’s Birthday weekend.
Has anybody else been pinged like that?
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June 16, 2013 11:01am
Fletch

Further to the IRS scandal, it seems that the Obama administration targeted evangelical churches, by sending people in undercover to snoop and report on any criticism of the administration. They were then targeted by the IRS if there was.

On Thursday the Examiner provided an exclusive report indicating that the Obama administration had implemented a covert program beginning in 2009 that was intended to spy on conservative, evangelical Christian churches.

That program involved infiltration — sending in government operatives to join churches for the purpose of data collection. The government snoops would keep their eyes and ears open for criticism of the Obama administration, talk of Tea Party participation, conversations about gun ownership, and a number of other issues.

But a special report issued today by Fox News indicates that the program went far beyond infiltration and snooping. The IRS was used to harass Christian churches if they were identified as places where large numbers of anti-Obama citizens congregated for worship.

The Obama administration, according to the report, considered any public criticism of administration policies to be political in nature and should therefore impact whether or not these congregations were allowed to gain or keep their tax exempt status.

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-snoops-part-2-infiltrate-target-harass-churches

Bye-bye free speech. You’re not even allowed to be critical of Obama. This is the same administration that has told the FBI and other law enforcement groups to leave mosques alone – the very places where extreme imams incite hatred.

The White House assures that tracking our every phone call and keystroke is to stop terrorists, and yet it won’t snoop in mosques, where the terrorists are.

That’s right, the government’s sweeping surveillance of our most private communications excludes the jihad factories where homegrown terrorists are radicalized.

Since October 2011, mosques have been off-limits to FBI agents. No more surveillance or undercover string operations without high-level approval from a special oversight body at the Justice Department dubbed the Sensitive Operations Review Committee.

Who makes up this body, and how do they decide requests? Nobody knows; the names of the chairman, members and staff are kept secret.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/061213-659753-all-intrusive-obama-terror-dragnet-excludes-mosques.htm

There’s something desperately wrong there. Even traitorous.
The man has to be impeached.
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June 16, 2013 11:03am
Kea

Has anybody else been pinged like that?

Thousands of people.
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June 16, 2013 11:04am
UglyTruth

Judge Russell did not admit any such thing. That is a lie.

You are the liar, Kea. I was there and I heard him admit to it.
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June 16, 2013 11:05am
Pete George

Poneke has re-surfaced reminiscing about the good old days of protest. Mururoa, Manapouri, the Springbok tour.

Is protest something else that has been taken over by political parties as a campaign tool? Crying wold over and over to try and attract voters is certainly not like the good old days.

And do we have anything serious enough to seriously protest? Maybe the GCSB spying issues could rise to the occasion, by apathy may compete strongly.

Poneke – those were the days
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June 16, 2013 11:11am
Kea

Ugly, just like you were there when “they” planned the Chemtrails and eugenics programs ?

Show me the EVIDENCE…
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June 16, 2013 11:17am
Fletch

As regards PRISM and Facebook, they have been allowed to reveal that Facebook received 9,000 and 10,000 requests for data in the last 6 months of 2012.

The social networking website Facebook says it received between 9,000 and 10,000 requests for user data from US government entities in the last six months of 2012.

The Internet giant said on Friday that the requests, which involved 18,000 to 19,000 of its users’ accounts, covered issues from minor crime to national security.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/06/15/309079/facebook-got-10k-us-data-requests/

But that isn’t all. The owner of a conservative Facebook page, Brietbart – One Voice Silenced, Millions Awakened wondered why her hits and readership had taken a downturn and it turned out a facebook executive had joined as a ‘manager’ and was likely blocking posts, rss feeds, etc, all without the page owner’s permission.

Joni Marie, Manager of the popular facebook page, Brietbart – One Voice Silenced, Millions Awakened, recently gave us her facebook page number details in an interview. While increasing their followers by 15% in one month, they had a big drop in their reach, which is a measurement that tells the page owner how far his message has spread. Their “overall reach” dropped by 47%, and their “daily reach” dropped by a whopping 65.5%. Anyone who understands business knows this is unusual. In fact, it’s unlikely that your followers would increase as much as 15% only to have your audience cut in half unless something or someone were helping it along.

In my previous article, “Breitbart versus Facebook“, I asked two questions that I couldn’t answer. First, is facebook guilty of sabotaging the larger conservative pages? Second, are they actually doing something so sinister as removing comments, preventing posting, stopping their posts from going out on their reader’s newsfeeds, and even adding Page Manager’s without the page owner’s permission? There is more going on at facebook than meets the eye.

Joni Marie got a screenshot of a woman named Joyce Tang who was added as a Manager on her page, by someone other than the page Managers. She told us:

According to Joni, she did a thorough search of facebook profiles and could find nothing on Joyce Tang. Lady Patriots looked for her and we couldn’t find her.
After this ,we had a patriot post a link to “linkedin.com” where she had put her resume. Through her resume, we easily found her facebook page, and between both of them, we found out a lot about Joyce Tang.

Joyce is a young, beautiful woman who lives in San Francisco, CA and has worked for Facebook as a Product Specialist for Facebook Pages since November 2011. She has been with facebook since October 2009, and before that she worked for Google for nearly four years, and a company called Honest Tea as an intern for a year. She is well respected in her job and community because she gets the job done and seems to be willing to do whatever is necessary to achieve her objective.

Since November of 2011, she has been in her current position as a “Product Specialist for Facebook Pages”. Just what does a “Product Specialist for Facebook Pages” do? It seems that one of her job responsibilities is to put herself as “Manager” on Facebook Pages that she manipulates. That’s what she did at Breitbart – One Voice Silenced, Millions Awakened

http://www.lady-patriots.com/facebook-executive-busted-for-infiltrating-conservative-sites/

So now facebook employees and getting involved by sabotaging conservative Facebook pages they don’t like.
This just stinks on ice 😡
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June 16, 2013 11:18am
UglyTruth

This is the same administration that has told the FBI and other law enforcement groups to leave mosques alone – the very places where extreme imams incite hatred.

This is because radicalization of Islamists is part of the administration’s game plan. Why do you think that Fethulah Gulen lives in the US, not some country in the middle east? It’s because they know he’s just a tool of the war hawks. Treason from within the administration is nothing new, it goes back to major US business interests (including the Bush family) backing the Nazis and the rescue of some Nazis via Operation Papaerclip & Operation Sunrise.
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June 16, 2013 11:25am
UglyTruth

Ugly, just like you were there when “they” planned the Chemtrails and eugenics programs ?

Same old same old, talking shit to make it look like you have a point to make.
STFU you lying hypocrite.
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June 16, 2013 11:27am
Kea

Ugly, so were you there when the planned the Chemtrials and eugenics programs or not ?

Simple question. You have no evidence so maybe you have personal experience… or not.
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June 16, 2013 11:32am
wiseowl

On this very wet day,compulsory reading is Michael Cootes’ latest post on NZCPR.
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June 16, 2013 11:35am
Kea

Fletch you are throwing pearls to swine. People will not admit to themselves just how bad things have become under Obama.

I really have no idea what Obama is trying to acheive. None at all. Do you ?
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June 16, 2013 11:36am
UglyTruth

You have no evidence

Except for the evidence that I have posted previously, you lying POS.

From William Thomas, journalist (January 1999 – William Wallace) Last winter in this city, in Victoria, in London Ontario, in Toronto, Edmonton, cities across Canada, we saw an epidemic of influenza like illnesses. That epidemic was also right across the United States and England. In Peterborough the emergency room took 307 acute care patients in one day. In England, refrigerator trucks were hired to haul the dead bodies away. This is from the BBC by the way. This is an exact repaint of the previous winter, when refrigerator trucks were pushed into service as morgues in England. And we had twelve straight weeks of what the centers for disease control called an epidemic of influenza-like illness and pneumonia – an epidemic in terms of death rates. This year we looked at nineteen of twenty weeks epidemic levels influenza like illness, double pneumonia, and death. The CDC called it the flu, most of the media we received call it the flu. I am here tonight to tell you it was not the flu. In fact many doctors were echoing the words of one nurse supervisor who said “I don’t think that anyone knows what it causing this sickness.” Doctors were saying this to the New York Times. And unlike flu that takes time to spread through the population, these illnesses were appearing virtually overnight in neighbourhoods, communities, and cities, swamping hospital wards. And what the media never remarked on was that the incident of heavy spraying – the characteristic Xs, the gel falling on parked cars and windshields ans buildings, tool place always at the same time and within twenty-four to forty-eight hours we saw these outbreaks on illness. Yes, some of it was the flu, but very little of it was influenza. The medical director for the via christi regional medical center said that he told reporters “this thing kills healty people in even four to five days”. Ans I have a stack of email of aunts and uncles and family members who suddenly contracted pneumonia although in good health and were dead within a week. Reports asked the CDC “what is this?”, and they said “this illness could be due to some other pathogen. And when I looked at the heavy spray days by city I again got an exact correlation. No, I do not have scientific proof, scientific evidence, but folks we are way beyond coincidence here.

Also

http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2012/10/10/data-confirms-persistent-contrail-emissions-from-jet-aircraft-are-actually-aerosols-of-chemical-pollution/
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June 16, 2013 11:46am
Nostalgia-NZ

‘So do I NNZ, but it won’t be me. If I had enough dosh to fork out $300k to sort Rene Ranger’s contract, I sure-as-eggs wouldn’t be working far too many hours a week to keep a medium sized business running!

That Ben Smith try was the defining moment of the match though. The AB’s defended 30-plus phases on their own line, Cane got the charge-down, and a couple of passes later Smith was in under the posts. It was revenge for that 1994 Try From the End of the World at Eden Park, and you’re dead right; the All Blacks are the only side in the world that would have the immediate instinct to turn defence into attack like that; it was simply stunning.’

It was the defining moment, spirit draining, hammering on attack only to give up a try and effectively the game. Yes, and it was stunning ‘defence to attack’, fingertips and inches all drawn together.
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June 16, 2013 12:00pm
Kea

Last winter in this city, in Victoria, in London Ontario, in Toronto, Edmonton, cities across Canada, we saw an epidemic of influenza like illnesses.

Ugly, gosh so what are the possibilities:

1. The influenza like illness increasing in the influenza season is … influenza ?

2. There there is a global conspiracy to spray billions of people with chemicals as part of a eugenics program ?

3. That Ugly is insane ?
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June 16, 2013 12:05pm
RF

Did any of the Sky City 4 go to the Christchurch game last night ? It would be too hard from them to turn down another nosh up. Greedy little pgs.
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June 16, 2013 12:09pm
Jack5

Disturbing article on the conflict in Britain over Islam.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/andrew-gilligan/10122496/Anti-fascists-fuel-the-fire-of-hate.html
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June 16, 2013 12:15pm
Chuck Bird

@Judith

The second question of course, rests on the answer of the first question. It could very well be that the young person has concocted stories for attention or some other reason. It would be interesting to know what other evidence there is apart from his telling his principal? An interesting case.

Judith, It could be very well that 9/11 was staged but not likely. The Herald and NewstalkZB would be careful before running the story.

I would expect that at some stage there will be a DNA test. If the 12 year old boy does not understand the significance of this his father would. I think the boy’s father would tell his son that if the DNA proves he is not the father he will be in trouble he would likely tell the truth in the unlikely event he is not now.

I do not know if you are correct in saying that the mother has no say if there is a DNA test. Although she has lost custody of the baby probably until it is established if the allegation is true. It there is no way the young boy could be the father I suspect this woman would say who she thinks is likely to be the father. I suspect she has some scumbag lawyer delaying a DNA test.
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June 16, 2013 12:25pm
Judith

Chuck Bird (3,543) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 12:25 pm
—————————
I completely agree.

The boy may not have a father to give him such advice although I’m sure any caregiver would advise him as such. Which raises another point, the mother would also be aware that DNA tests would be able to prove who the father isn’t – given that knowledge, why would she make the claims she has?

I am not 100% sure, but I believe that if a child is in CYPS care, then they act as the legal guardians, and therefore have to give permission for the child to be tested.

The whole thing seems very strange. Of course, even if the baby is not the young males, it does not exclude the possibility of a sexual relationship. Just as equally as the young person could have made the story up for attention, the woman could have been playing mind games with him, by telling him he was the father – which is extremely ‘sick’. If the DNA proves the child to have been fathered by someone else, then I suspect there will have to be some other form of evidence e.g. witness accounts etc, for the Crown to prove their case. Because they are opting for the lesser charge, it maybe that there is not much evidence, and especially none that supports the more serious charge of sexual violation.
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June 16, 2013 12:38pm
lilman

Two questions,

First,Judith do you have a job?

Secondly, Ugly truth do you have a criminal conviction?

thats all ,bye!
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June 16, 2013 12:38pm
Harriet

“…..It would be interesting to know what other evidence there is apart from his telling his principal? An interesting case….”

And that’s the problem with liberals like you Judith:

Only you lot would think that a 33yr old women having sex with an 11 yld child is ‘interesting’.

I think that the case where a middle aged retired female public servant is raped – is only ‘interesting’ too.

Would you find it ‘interesting’ Judith – if it was you?
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June 16, 2013 12:42pm
Judith

Chuck Bird (3,543) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 12:25 pm
—————————-

This case raises some really good issues regarding protecting our children, in particular males.

Of course the male physicality at puberty, together with peer pressure, and even pressure from male role models, who verbally praise sexual conquests – make young males keen to ‘taste the fruits of life’.

However, just as young females are vulnerable to being exploited by older and more experienced males, this case highlights the vulnerability of the physically mature, but not emotionally mature male.

I am sure many parents, especially mothers warn their daughters of the danger in being coerced by older males into taking part in such a relationship, but I wonder how many men warn their sons to be wary of such things? In fact, I have seen quite the opposite occur (not in someone quite this young though) where the male ‘child’ was encouraged to gain the ‘experience’.
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June 16, 2013 12:48pm
Judith

Harriet (1,938) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 12:42 pm
————————————

The ‘interest’ is in the legal dilemmas involved in this particular case Harriet, my dear 🙂
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June 16, 2013 12:50pm
Judith

lilman (413) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 12:38 pm
——————————

I have two ‘jobs’ – that is, positions in paid employment.

Thank you for your ‘interest’. 🙂
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June 16, 2013 12:52pm
CraigM

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10890781

Once again Grant is waxing hypocritical . Seriously, why does granny herald continue with this idiot.
Today he talks about about men who use the family home to prop up a failing business and finishes with a whimsical notion that such men should talk to their wives about the true state of the company finances and the risks they are taking. Nice sentiment and I completely agree.
This hypocrite even admits he should talk to his wife more about his business. Reality is he never will as he would have to tell her what he spends huge amounts of company money on and that truth could cost him dearly.
Those with lack of intestinal fortitude issues , who encourage others to do what they will never do, quite frankly make me sick. Zero credibility.
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June 16, 2013 1:08pm
Harriet

Women raping 11ylds?

Big Government Can’t Fix Immorality.

“….We see it time and again. Whether the problem is poverty, bad schools, gun violence, crime in general, or even the spread of disease, the liberal answer is always the same: more government; more laws, more regulations, more ‘support’.

All of which have been proven to be questionable because the ‘liberal outcome’ is the intergenerational continuance of those very same problems. 😎

“I wanted to shoot people because that’s what I saw growing up,” said Baker who “grew up” without a father and whose mother had the first of her four children at age 13!!!!!! The USA Today article reveals that Camden city officials are clamoring for “a holistic solution that gets to the heart of why people such as Baker turn to violence in the first place.”

As is so typical with today’s liberal media and liberal politicians, and in spite of the plain evidence staring them in the face, there was not one mention of the breakdown of the family being at the root of what really plagues urban America. 😎
Instead, USA Today notes that Camden lawmakers “almost to a person” were focused on “a failing education system, a dearth of jobs and a street culture that rewards and even encourages criminal behavior.”

Of course, the reason why such things are given focus is that they beg for a political solution!!!!!!!!! 😎 😎

When confronted with the countless cultural tribulations that result from the millions of Americans who are living without a mother and father at home, almost any solution that can get people to the ballot box is preferred!!!!!! 😎 😎

Another critical point: do you notice the often circular nature of the liberal arguments? 😎 😎

It can go something like this: violence is the result of poverty; poverty is the result of a lack of education; kids don’t go to school because the schools are too violent. It’s dizzyingly maddening! 😎 😎

First of all, as I have noted many times, all law is rooted in some morality. 😎

Second, it is one thing to attempt legislation that encourages liberty, individual responsibility, and limited government while being true to God’s Word;

It is quite another to support legislation that promotes servitude and dependence and massively grows government — to the tune of trillions of dollars — and that is driven by whatever MORALITY seems to be most POPULAR at the time. 😎 hypocrats! 😎

When dealing with the IMMORALITY that is destroying our nation, good government must recognize what it takes truly to change bad behavior — something that “gets to the heart” 😎 of individuals, to quote the officials in Camden — and, at best, partner with such efforts, or at least do nothing to hinder them.

In other words, we can’t have a government that encourages sexual immorality, be it through taxpayer-funded abortions, promiscuous sexual education, or the promotion of homosexuality, and then wants to pay for the consequences of such immorality with billions in taxpayer-funded welfare. 😎

We can’t have a government that seeks to cure poverty or violence with a godless secular education system. We can’t have a government, as Grover Cleveland put it, that “encourages the expectation of paternal care” while weakening “the sturdiness of our national character.”

In other words, we don’t need a government that thinks that it can, through mere secular means, cure all that ails our culture. 😎

We need a government (of course, that means elected officials) that understands that truly to change someone, truly to change behavior, requires getting to the heart of individuals. 😎 And of course, this requires spiritual efforts, and we all know where that leads. 😎 ……”

Yep…..it leads to the NZ Consevatives getting the party vote to put a stop to the excesses and excuses that both National and Labour utilise in trying to solve wholy avoidable problems! 😎
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June 16, 2013 1:09pm
Griff

Another dodgy think tank talks to much kea to retain its charitable status.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/lord-lawsons-climatechange-think-tank-risks-being-dismantled-after-complaint-it-persistently-misled-public-8659314.html

Lord Lawson’s climate-change think tank faces being dismantled or even
wound down after a formal complaint that it has persistently misled the public prompted the statutory regulator to probe into the group.

Since Lord Lawson launched the Global Warming Policy Foundation (GWPF) in November 2009 it has “persistently disseminated inaccurate and misleading information about climate change as part of its campaign against climate policies in the UK and overseas,” the complaint alleges.
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June 16, 2013 1:11pm
Kanz

Harriet (1,939) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 12:42 pm

Which part of this experiment were you thinking of playing here?
The part of the ‘middle aged retired public servant’?
Or are you the potential rapist?
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June 16, 2013 1:13pm
All_on_Red

Harriet,
Please, please think of the poor emoticons. They’ve had enough abuse.
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June 16, 2013 1:29pm
CraigM

Tahui – see your 107 and lower it to 105. I can also raise you with a 54 in 50 k zone ( camera in a van parked at the bottom of a steep hill)
Crime is expensive!
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June 16, 2013 1:35pm
Bad__Cat

OMG the crazies have taken over the asylum today!
Time to curl up on the couch with a good book.
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June 16, 2013 1:36pm
mandk

Griff @ 9.32,
Why should someone believe Delingpole less than they believe anyone from the AGW industry?
AGW belief is virtually religious, and there are so many vested interests that gainsayers are immediately derided as heretics or apostates.
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June 16, 2013 1:38pm
Harriet

“…Which part of this experiment were you thinking of playing here?
The part of the ‘middle aged retired public servant’?
Or are you the potential rapist?….’

Kanz,

Everytime a social issue is discussed at Kiwiblog Judith always announces and supports the ‘current orthodox view’ of the ‘progressive’ public service departments.

And then includes a ‘token effort’ of suppoprt by way of parenting and/or fatherhood – but only if we ask her to!

Suggest to Judith that ‘divorce’ has largely contributed to bad outcomes for children, and you will hear ‘women were raped and brutalised’ BEFORE no-faults divorce.

Judith thinks that the Police arn’t allowed to arrest Married rapists.
And that since the introduction of no-faults divorce – not ONE Married woman has been raped.
And instead of having a MOSTLY POSITIVE Marriage culture previous to the 70’s – we now have a MOSTLY NEGATIVE Divorce culture – foisted on the kids:

Girls in Sweden who spend no or littletime with their natural fathers are more than 17 times MORE likely to be the victims of sexual assault than are girls who live within the parents Marriages!

Progressives like Judith in NZ support rape culture – albeit unwittenly – but you already knew that ! 😎
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June 16, 2013 1:47pm
Griff

I would believe him a fuck of a lot more if he had some sort of clue about climate change.

see the video…

I dont bother reading scientific papers says Delingpole

You can not make an informed opinion on any subject unless you understand it. By his own admission he does not have an understanding of the science behind global warming. Poor pathetic wingnuts take his word as gospel.

You fail to ask what does he know?….. fuck all.
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June 16, 2013 1:52pm
Kea

Global warming is real, and caused by capitalism
Socialism needed

http://pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/global-warming-is-real.html

Males cause global warming

Feminism gets unified with the global warming theory

http://motls.blogspot.co.nz/2007/11/males-cause-global-warming.html

🙂 🙂 🙂
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June 16, 2013 1:55pm
Judith

Harriet (1,940) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 1:47 pm
———————————-

What a load of absolute shit Harriet.

How about instead of stating as ‘fact’ of what I think or don’t think, and quoting things I have never said, you clarify it by saying that is your opinion only.

You are of course wrong – and have absolutely no idea of what my stance is, or indeed the type of work I have done regarding support of victims of sexual assault. In short, you know sweet f**k all, however, that doesn’t stop you from making up and fantasising about what you think you know, not just about me, but others as well.

You seem to be stupid enough to believe that what your read on a blog provides you with a complete picture of who and what that person is, and what they believe. Can you be anymore ignorant?
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June 16, 2013 1:57pm
Chuck Bird

@Judith

Both the father and child are now understood to be in care after the principal at the boy’s school raised the alarm.

The following is from the story in the Herald. Have you read the story? The boy does a father who appears to be involved and concerned. This is a serious allegation. I would like to know why there has not been a DNA test. It takes two consents or a Court order. If the boy did not consent I would expect the case would be dropped.

Just as equally as the young person could have made the story up for attention, the woman could have been playing mind games with him, by telling him he was the father – which is extremely ‘sick’.

I would say it was remotely possible that a young boy would concoct such a story and stick to it. It is far from equally likely. What do others think?
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June 16, 2013 1:59pm
Kea

Griff:

1. Did cave men cause AGW and end the last Ice Age ?

2. How did all the other Ice Ages end (before humans existed) if it did not get warmer ?

3. How much weed have you smoked today ?
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June 16, 2013 2:00pm
Dirty Rat

Scott Chris (4,928) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 8:08 am
Judge David Harvey has set a legal precedent in ruling that persistent derogatory blogging can be covered by an anti-harassment law.

I’m still waiting on an other blogger to go and attack the judge for this, as it is something he is passionate about, that is, writing any old shit about someone

He is strangely quite on this one…
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June 16, 2013 2:05pm
Harriet

“……You seem to be stupid enough to believe that what your read on a blog provides you with a complete picture of who and what that person is, and what they believe. Can you be anymore ignorant?…..”

SOoooooooooooooooo then Judith:

Do you support BIG government or little government?

You are the COMPLETE PICTURE OF HUGE GOVERNMENT Judith! 😎
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June 16, 2013 2:06pm
Judith

Chuck Bird (3,544) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

———————————-

Yes, the boy concerned and the baby are in custody. I am not sure why the boy would be, unless there is reason for the authorities to believe he was being neglected or not supported/ protected by his family.

Obviously the media story does not give enough information to really know what is going on. It is a serious allegation, extremely, and perhaps a DNA test is going to be done, but that information is likely to be legally protected (which as both the child and the victim are minors, will remain that way), as will the identity of the accused, to protect the identity of baby.

In these sorts of cases the law protects the victims and it is unlikely if it proceeds to trial that anything but superficial information will be publicly released. It is awful that the boy concerned is removed from his family if they are supportive of him – such isolation will just add to his victimisation, however, there may be reasons for that, which we just don’t know.
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June 16, 2013 2:07pm
Judith

Harriet (1,941) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 2:06 pm
———————————–

and you appear to be a personally abusive poster, who when they can’t discuss the issues with any degree of intelligence resorts to abusing people, as evidenced by your post. You may think it makes you very clever, and I am sure there are some that find your lack of ability entertaining and funny, to me, it demonstrates extreme weakness and a lack of control that makes you swing between rationality and irrationality when posting.
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June 16, 2013 2:11pm
Kea

” BIG OIL is conspiring to hide the truth that the world is ending ”

“The Carbon Industry [?] is paying off scientists to lie”

“The government is poisoning our water/air”

Why Pot Smokers Are Paranoid

Paranoia is one of the most unpleasant “side effects” of marijuana. It’s also a key experience shared by marijuana smokers and people with schizophrenia. But exactly how does smoking a joint cause the feeling that dark forces are conspiring to do you wrong?

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/06/why-pot-smokers-are-paranoid/#ixzz2WLEgzjnD
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June 16, 2013 2:15pm
Judith

Dirty Rat (226) Says:
June 16th, 2013 at 2:05 pm
——————————–

Is that the blogger whose own case created a certain amount of precedence?
If it is I suspect he will ‘come out’ and expose himself and his obvious dislike of any taming that would prevent him from making an ‘honest’ dollar in mud-raking and ‘witch sniffing encouragment’
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June 16, 2013 2:19pm
Manolo

A tyrant and thief: http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/kraft_putin_stole_bowl_ring_qtB16b5PI0jipYT6tQxUGO
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June 16, 2013 2:20pm
Chuck Bird

Judith, where did you read that the boy was in custody?
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June 16, 2013 2:25pm

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