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June 15, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 June 2013

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General Debate

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Kea

The compromise is Moslem parties operating within a democratic system – as per Turkey and Egypt – but will the Moslem parties accept the risk of being voted out?

SPC, The region is moving away from democracy and towards religious dictatorships. Obama has been helping Islamic mercenaries overthrow regimes and destabilise countries. Obama is behind the absurdly named “Arab Spring” and is currently destabilising Syria.
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June 15, 2013 9:28pm
SPC

Reid, it is not Israel but Saudi Arabia promoting Sunni fight the Syria regime – as an anti-Shia/Iran policy.
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June 15, 2013 9:32pm
SPC

Kea, there was no democracy to move away from, just non religious dictatorships falling – and secular democrats and Islamists fighting for power afterwards.
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June 15, 2013 9:33pm
Griff

Peer-Reviewed Survey Finds Majority Of Scientists Skeptical Of Global Warming

As you have posted this kea prove you are not a wingnut a tell us from the survey how many scientists it interviewed please?.
Try instead reporting the actual content and purpose of the paper.
Hint read it.
It is not on “scientists” its oil industry engineers and management. The paper discuses why the higher up the management team this less they support action on AGW.
http://oss.sagepub.com/content/33/11/1477.full

By linking notions of the science or science fiction of climate change to the assessment of the adequacy of global and local policies and of potential organizational responses, we contribute to the understanding of ‘defensive institutional work’ by professionals within petroleum companies, related industries, government regulators, and their professional association.

A wingnut who posts shit without even reading it……. classic fuckwit.
😆
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June 15, 2013 9:35pm
Kea

Griff, give it up. Even in countries where people are brain washed to “believe in ” AGW surveys show the majority do not support the theory. You are part of a dying cult and it is time to face up to it.

There is no evidence that man is driving climate change. Even it was getting warmer [it is not] that would not prove the theory. Climate is not a fixed system and is in continual change. The fact is there are so many variables that weathermen really have no idea what the future climate will be. They can not even tell you what will be happening on Monday with any accuracy.

There are plenty of real environmental concerns you can share your views on and do some actual good.
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June 15, 2013 9:35pm
Kea

SPC, I see you have overlooked the opportunity to condemn US aggression and the thousands killed as a result. I wonder if you would have done that if it was Bush in charge and not that violent nigger warlord ?
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June 15, 2013 9:38pm
Johnboy

Of course we have global warming it was 1.9c at 7:00am this morning. Last year it was only 1.8c. 🙂
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June 15, 2013 9:38pm
Kea

Johnboy, shit that is serious ! Griffs “scientists” reckon 0.6 degrees will end life as we know it. A whole degree could see the world combust into a fireball based on the “climate models”.

I wish it would warm up here, my power bill is going to be a shocker 🙂
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June 15, 2013 9:43pm
Johnboy

I’ve lit the fire to try and thaw the wife out Kea but now I’m having an anxiety attack about the CO2 I’m emitting. 🙂
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June 15, 2013 9:49pm
Reid

Reid, it is not Israel but Saudi Arabia promoting Sunni fight the Syria regime – as an anti-Shia/Iran policy.

SPC if you really think that you have no idea how the ME works. Do you seriously think Saudi Arabia makes a foreign policy move without consulting the US and do you seriously think the US makes a FP move in the ME without consulting Israel?

For example.
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June 15, 2013 9:52pm
Griff

No kea lets discus you posting a link to paper and claiming it represents scientists when it does not.
Did you not read the paper just take the journalists word for it?
That is sucker shit matey
Who is to be believed on Chinese AGW policy the Chinese academy of sciences and the Chinese government or the telegraph?
Not that I trust the Chinese or wiki but

n 2010, Premier Wen Jiabao promised to use an “iron hand” to make China more energy efficient. China has surpassed the rest of the world as the biggest investor in wind turbines and other renewable energy technology. And it has dictated tough new energy standards for lighting and gas kilometrage for cars.[16] With $34.6 billion invested in clean technology in 2009, China is the world’s leading investor in renewable energy technologies.[17][18] China produces more wind turbines and solar panels each year than any other country.[19]

Coal is predicted to remain the most important power source in the near future but China has been seen as the world leader in clean coal technology.[20][21][22]

Nuclear power is planned to be rapidly expanded. By mid-century fast neutron reactors are seen as the main nuclear power technology which allows much more efficient use of fuel reources.[23]
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June 15, 2013 9:53pm
Kea

Johnboy, throw a bit of coal on too. It makes it much warmer.

Do you know how the CO2 got into the wood and coal Johnboy ? It came from the atmosphere. All you are doing is re liberating it back to where it came from. Griff forgets to mention things like that 😉
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June 15, 2013 9:54pm
SPC

Kea, I opposed regime change in Iraq at the time – even had Wellington police sent to my house in the valley by the US embassy (on the logic that anyone who wrote to them and said they opposed intervention in Iraq in 2001 must be anti-American and therefore a suspect in the case of a threat to the life of Tiger Woods in early 2002). Since then Obama who also opposed intervention has been elected by other “anti-Americans” as their President.

Sure Obama has continued support for locals realising democratic government, but has not resorted to boots on the ground to depose any regime. Your objection to ME Arab Moslems either having democracy in their own countries or migrating to Western countries that have democracy is noted.
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June 15, 2013 9:55pm
Johnboy

And of course New Zealand never makes a foreign policy move without checking the credit on our Visa card! 🙂
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June 15, 2013 9:56pm
Johnboy

I told the wife what we were doing was all natural but she still wouldn’t get her gear off Kea. 🙂
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June 15, 2013 9:57pm
SPC

Reid, yes I am sure that Saudi Arabia acts without seeking consent of the USA – or are you claiming their invasion of a Shia majority neighbour was with US consent?
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June 15, 2013 9:58pm
Kea

Griff, do not look at what China says, look at what it is doing. It is flat out building coal fired power plants.

Of course it is looking at other energy sources, but that is not because of concern over AGW. China will try and spin it as environmental concern to make it look like it is doing its bit while refusing to sign any international agreements that limit CO2.
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June 15, 2013 10:00pm
SPC

There have been no new coal fired power stations built in Beijing since 1998. Beijing is moving to gas. Shanghai is set to follow suit – this involves a subsidy for gas that most regions cannot afford.

http://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/5031-Beijing-seeks-to-kill-coal-with-gas
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June 15, 2013 10:06pm
Kea

SPC, yeah I am sure you opposed all kinds of things when a white guy was in charge.

Sure Obama has continued support for locals realising democratic government, but has not resorted to boots on the ground to depose any regime.

He has made military strikes and hundreds of drone attacks killing numerous civilians. We do not know how many for sure, as he has the CIA running the drones and they do not have the same level of public scrutiny.

He has announced plans to put troops into 35 African countries this year, to kill Muslims. Google it and see for yourself.

The biggest bit of bullshit you have come out with is this being about “democracy”. It is about imported Muslim Jihadists overthrowing stable government with an aim of establishing a Muslim empire under Sharia law.

Of course you know that but can not bring yourself to tell the truth because the president is a nigger.
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June 15, 2013 10:08pm
Griff

Kea you will twist like a worm around the facts read above.
China is building clean coal plants.
China is introducing carbon trading
They have changed track from growth at all cost to one thinking about the future.
all those wind turbines and solar panels biggest user and manufacture in the world.
It is a strange paradigm that the third world can make perverse jumps ahead.
straight to cell phone not via copper wire.

Still not going to actually comment on your misrepresentation of the paper.
Easily lead sucker 😆 look out JB likes sheepies.
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June 15, 2013 10:10pm
Kea

“There have been no new coal fired power stations built in Beijing since 1998”

LOL 🙂

SPC, do you know how big China is ? They are not building the stations in the city as the land is too valuable. They build the coal fired plant some other place and transport the power to Beijing.

How many hydro dams are there in Auckland ?

This sort of thing shows how far some people are willing to divorce themselves from commons sense to promote AGW.
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June 15, 2013 10:14pm
SPC

Kea, as griff says you don’t know how to read, Beijing is spending big money subsidising gas alternatives to coal, they are not bringing in power from coal plants elsewhere.
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June 15, 2013 10:17pm
Kea

China is building clean coal plants.

Griff, thanks for confirming that China is building coal plants. But I already said that.

Thanks also for backing me up regarding other power sources. Please note the reasons have nothing to do with belief in AGW. They did not get to where they are by being silly enough to buy into the green fantasies of white middle class westerners.
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June 15, 2013 10:18pm
Kea

SPC, you idiot. Do you have any idea how big China is ? Who gives a shit what they are doing in one city.

The reasons are nothing to do with AGW. They are to do with pollution and future energy needs.
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June 15, 2013 10:20pm
Griff

kea
😆
lick lick little wingnut
One day you will actually read a link.
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June 15, 2013 10:21pm
SPC

Kea, drones do not regime change, the soldiers for African nations are to protect regimes from Islamist insurgents. None of this is boots on the ground for regime change.

As for Sunni coming into Syria to fight and Shia Hizbollah coming into Syria to fight as part of a wider regional war between Sunni and Shia taking the form of support for rival sides in a civil war in Syria, what has this to do with America having boots on the ground to impose regime change? Nothing.
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June 15, 2013 10:22pm
Johnboy

I only like pretty sheep Griff.

Do you have any photos of Kea?
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June 15, 2013 10:23pm
SPC

Kea, it is not one city, Shanghai is following suit and another one on the coast. Wealthier areas are coming under pressure to afford cleaner energy.
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June 15, 2013 10:25pm
Kea

Unlike yourself Griff I read just fine thanks. I generally overlook your lousy comprehension and try and look at your central message, otherwise I would have no time to educate you.

You can play all the word games you like but even former alarmists are coming clean and telling the truth. AGW hysteria is over and the theory is on the ropes. The weathermen have already changed the name to “climate change” and are looking at new ideas to stay relevant and keep the $$$$ pouring in.
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June 15, 2013 10:27pm
Griff

Um…now look…now look, mate, I’ve definitely ‘ad enough of this. That parrot is definitely a wingnut, and when I purchased it not ‘alf an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of brain was due to it bein’ tired and shagged out following a prolonged squawk……
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June 15, 2013 10:27pm
Kea

SPC, oh so its TWO cities in the worlds biggest country. FFS !

But so what ? It has nothing to do with AGW. Get it through your thick head. They have actual and real environmental concerns in China, without making shit up.
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June 15, 2013 10:29pm
Hodor

Haha once again Kea prevails by asking Red, Reid or UT to provide some evidence for their arguments. As usual, they can’t because they are talking bullshit, and they have to resort to playing the man.

All ya gotta do is provide some evidence fellas!

Go Kea!
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June 15, 2013 10:30pm
Kea

SPC, why do you keep banging on about “boots on the ground” ?

Do you think that is some how worse than blowing people into steaming smouldering chunks of meat with a drone or airstrike ? You really need to wake up.

Obama is supporting a violent over throw of a stable secular government in Syria by imported jihadist extremists. The last thing on the Islamists mind is democracy.

I am sure you would see this yourself if the president was a Republican and white.
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June 15, 2013 10:35pm
SPC

Kea, the link says more than 2, if you had cared to read it. The trends is clear wealthier cities and regions are moving to subsidise cleaner energy sources. This will expand further because the Chinese people want a healthier environment.
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June 15, 2013 10:38pm
SPC

Kea, how is Obama importing jihadist extremists into Syria? Hizbollah is imported by the Syrian government with the consent of Iran who are probably paying for it.
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June 15, 2013 10:40pm
Kea

the soldiers for African nations are to protect regimes from Islamist insurgents.

So why is Obama not protecting Syria from the Islamist insurgents ?

Tell me how the “boots on the ground” thing is working out in Afghanistan ? Remember Obama tripled the size of the invading army, he even campaigned on it. Maybe that is why they gave him the Nobel Peace Prize, do you think ?
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June 15, 2013 10:43pm
SPC

You think a stable secular government shoots unarmed protestors in the streets of the capital? This is what provoked the civil war.

The Baath Party in both Syria and Iraq was used as a front for minority groups to rule their countries – Sunni in Iraq and Shia Alawites in Syria (they also dominate the military).
.
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June 15, 2013 10:46pm
SPC

Kea, the regime asked Iran and Hizbollah for protection from the people of Syria.
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June 15, 2013 10:48pm
Kea

SPC, stop making a fool of yourself. It is widely and openly reported that Obama is backing the radical militant extremists invading Syria. It is openly admitted by Obama and reported in the msm.

He is financing them to the tune of hundreds of millions and is threatening Syria with military strikes. He tried the old lie about chemical weapons as a reason to attack, but the UN found the rebels were the ones using them ! He knows how quick idiots like you forget these things and so he has accused the Syrian government of it again, with the egg still stuck to his lying black face from last time.
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June 15, 2013 10:49pm
SPC

Kea, I know subtlety is not your strong point – but western aid supporting the rebels in Syria does not go to Islamists, they get it from Saudi Arabia.
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June 15, 2013 10:54pm
Kea

“Kea, Syria asked Iran and Hizbollah for protection from the people of Syria.”

SPC, no they asked for protection from an imported army attacking their country and killing thousands of Syrian people.

Who do you suggest they ask for help. The USA ?

I can read this sort of Obama worship in the msm, I do not need to read it parroted on a blog.
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June 15, 2013 10:54pm
Kea

This lady is a lot better looking and smarter than SPC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45VClCVAzmw
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June 15, 2013 10:56pm
Griff

yes sock puppet love.
Kea makes shit up all the time 😆
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iGY6NuBanhA9Ij-Mrzn_QYHGaHIQ

SYDNEY — China is rapidly assuming a global leadership role on climate change alongside the United States, a new study said Monday, but it warned greenhouse gas emissions worldwide continue to rise strongly.

The report by the independent Australian-based Climate Commission, “The Critical Decade: International Action on Climate Change” presents an overview of action in the last nine months.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/9/4411810/u-s-and-china-agree-to-limit-hfc-greenhouse-gases

On Saturday, President Obama and Chinese President Xi Jinping made a public pledge to scale back production of HFCs (Hydrochlorofluorocarbons), especially potent greenhouse gases used in refrigerators, air conditioners and insulating foam. According to the White House, the proposed phasedown would have an effect equivalent to removing 90 gigatons of CO2, or two years worth of emissions.

The study found that every major economy had policies in place to tackle the issue, but China was at the forefront in strengthening its response, “taking ambitious strides to add renewable energy to its mix”.

http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/greenhouse-gas-china-is-hotter-20130412

WASHINGTON — China, the world’s largest producer of carbon dioxide, is directly feeling the man-made heat of global warming, scientists conclude in the first study to link the burning of fossil fuels to one country’s rise in its daily temperature spikes.
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June 15, 2013 10:57pm
Kea

Kea, I know subtlety is not your strong point – but western aid supporting the rebels in Syria does not go to Islamists, they get it from Saudi Arabia.

What utter crap. The rebels are Islamists on a global jihad.

Saudi Arabia is the biggest financier of radical Islam on the planet. Bin Laden was Saudi as were the people behind 911. So the US attacked Afghanistan, because some Saudis camped out there in the back blocks.
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June 15, 2013 11:00pm
SPC

Kea, you seem to believe the lie of Assad that any opposition to his one party dictatorship that shoots unarmed protestors are Islamists.

The West distinguish between the rebel groups which of them they will give aid to. That Saudi Arabia gives aid to the Islamists demonstrates that Reid was wrong to claim they did this at the Americans behest.
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June 15, 2013 11:04pm
SPC

Kea, it was the French who accused Syria of using chemical weapons – they did not take this position in Iraq 2003. And Obama himself also opposed action in 2003.

Most of the rebels fighting in Syria are locals, there is no imported army apart from Hizbollah, just individuals supporting Islamist rule and armed by Saudi Arabia – the West is arming the local resistance.
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June 15, 2013 11:09pm
Kea

SPC, The fact Assad is a miserable bastard does not justify you telling lies about the US backed radicals invading the country. I am not supporting Assad, I am simply telling the truth. And just look at how wonderful and liberated all those other countries are that were invaded by Muslim radicals supported by Obama.

The majority of them are not even Syrians.

German Intelligence: 95 % Of Free Syrian Army Non-Syrian Extremist Groups

Berlin, (SANA)- German “Die Welt” daily said that only 5% of the armed terrorists in the so-called Free Army are Syrians, while 95% of them are extremist groups which came from several African countries to jihad in Syria backed by the Gulf and Arab countries.

The daily quoted intelligence experts in Germany as saying : ” The German intelligence has an official and detailed account of the nationalities of the rebels in Syria and their locations in the country,”

A member of the German intelligence said that some terrorist groups in Syria wok in full coordination with al-Qaeda, but the extremist groups are most dangerous than al-Qaeda since they commit genocide against children and women and use them as human shields to achieve the possible biggest number of casualties.

http://stratrisks.com/geostrat/13310
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June 15, 2013 11:12pm
Kea

SPC, yeah the “local resistance” my arse. So how do they ensure the radicals do not get the aid ? How do they tell them apart, given they are all fighting together? Explain how that works in a practical real life way in a war zone ?

Who gives a fuck what Obama opposed in 2003. Now the nigger has the trigger he has been the biggest war monger in American history.
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June 15, 2013 11:16pm
SPC

Kea, can you name the other countries where Moslem radicals invaded and deposed regimes?
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June 15, 2013 11:17pm
SPC

Kea, you cannot post “with the egg still stuck to his lying black face from last time” and then say you don’t care what he opposed in 2003 when I remind you of the facts.
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June 15, 2013 11:19pm
Kea

The Baath Party in both Syria and Iraq was used as a front for minority groups to rule their countries

You mean Iraq under the US backed Saddam, while he invaded Iran and gassed thousands of people, all with US support ?
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June 15, 2013 11:21pm
SPC

Kea, so you believe that there is no local resistance to Assad and only foreigners who are behind the plot to remove a stable and “secular” regime (dominated by the local Shia) that is the major ally of Hizbollah and Iran in the region.
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June 15, 2013 11:22pm
Kea

Kea, can you name the other countries where Moslem radicals invaded and deposed regimes?

All of the “Arab Spring” countries.

The egg on face comment relates to what he is saying now. The radicals, Obama supports, were found to be using chemical weapons, not the Syrian government. When Obama thought he could pin it on Assad, he was all set to attack.
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June 15, 2013 11:26pm
Kea

“Kea, so you believe that there is no local resistance to Assad”

I will believe German intelligence and Syrian people who know the situation. Both of whom disagree with you.
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June 15, 2013 11:28pm
SPC

Kea, so you define the Arab spring as where local Arabs who want to depose a tyrant are an invading army of Moslem radicals.

The local Syrians claim 20,000 men defected from the Syrian army to join the rebels – yet the Germans count only 15,000 in the Free Syria Army and say 95% are foreigners.
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June 15, 2013 11:41pm
SPC

Kea, it would seem you believe the reports on Press TV “yet” to appear in other media apart from Assad PR.
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June 15, 2013 11:46pm
Kea

No, I define radical Islamic mercenaries as an invading army. I define a civil uprising of locals as a civil uprising of locals.

Your worship of Obama actually goes a bit beyond the msm. You really should check on what it is your defending and how that has actually worked out for people living in those places.
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June 15, 2013 11:47pm
Kea

SPC, you can find all of this in the msm.

If the president was a white republican you would be agreeing with me.
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June 15, 2013 11:51pm
SPC

Kea, the case you are referring to re chemical weapons was in May, the latest story is more recent.
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June 15, 2013 11:53pm
LabourDoesntWork

Redbaiter,
Western civilisation is no longer being built; it’s being dismantled. These are the people who rode on the coattails of those who built it in the first place, so defending what is left is naturally above their grade. In order to give themselves a future to build, they turn to the solipsistic bullshit that is leftism and tearing at traditions already proven right by time. People no longer have to be pragmatic, because there’s nothing like having to solve the daily problems of basic survival and exercising one’s own freedom to rise above progressive flakery they cloak themselves in. IOW, their ideas don’t have to actually work. That’s why they’re most popular at the alternate universe that is University, where people are the freest to ignore the Real World. These are ideas of the so-called intellectual elite who elevate equality above excellence, which can only mean decline because you can’t have both.
But they still believe in moral absolutes: their political correctness, for all its desperate shallowness, hypocrisy and plain stupidity testifies to their need to believe in something. They’ve invented something just as intolerant and inflexible as how they characterise the traditions and the conservative institutions they hate. Of course it’s their own traits they are projecting onto that which they reject: it’s their only way of comprehending it. E.g. Feminism is tyrannical and sexist precisely because it is patriarchal “tyranny” and “sexism” that they are against Of Course.
The world hates what it can’t control. They want to control “truth” by redefining it, so they invented progressivism.
We’re marching towards the Utopia; therefore, intractable problems are non grata. Islam’s true nature is thus ignored, no matter how this manifests “progressive” hypocrisy over the most basic notions of equal treatment for women and their supposed hatred of religious fundamentalism. Still, Islam may be the wake-up call that will work.
Your rightly, LDW
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June 16, 2013 12:02am
SPC

Kea, there is no Arab spring case of an invading Moslem radical army overturning a regime – not Tunisis, nor Egypt and not Libya -Gaddafi was the one with imported soldiers on his pay.

In the Gulf Saudi Arabia sent in troops to support a Sunni minority regime in a neighbouring state from Shia majority protest uprising to “prevent” an Arab spring on their own doorstep.

You are simply supporting local dictatorship over Moslems rather than self government – all because Moslems might either choose to have Islamist government, or have one imposed on them, if there is no military strongman to (living life high on the hog) to suppress Islamism on behalf of the rest of the world.

Why don’t you trust Moslems with democracy?
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June 16, 2013 12:03am
SPC

LDW, what is truth? Declare your truth, instead of attacking others for not having it, or admit it you are a divider and a wrecker who does not work with others but seeks to impose your truth over them – just as you say is “the way of the world”.
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June 16, 2013 12:08am
Manolo

Crazy as bat shit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22916174#TWEET790654
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June 16, 2013 7:57am
Scott Chris

Outstanding Warriors win away against the Roosters.
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June 16, 2013 10:21pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Yes. Goes with Joseph Parker’s emphatic win, All Blacks beating France in a tough match – I hope my observations don’t put a hex on the cricket against England which would be another most welcome victory over the past 4 days – rained out of course at the moment.
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June 16, 2013 10:35pm
Shunda barunda

LDW, what is truth? Declare your truth, instead of attacking others for not having it, or admit it you are a divider and a wrecker who does not work with others but seeks to impose your truth over them

And just exactly what have you built SPC? or the wider environmental movement for that matter?

What do the Sue Bradford’s, John Minto’s and Hone Harawira’s do but smash down and throw rocks?

Self loathing westerners are the true dividers and wreckers in our society by a country mile.
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June 16, 2013 11:07pm
Manolo

Australia’s own Minto whinges: http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8675627/labor-shamefully-abandoned-assange-pilger
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June 17, 2013 6:33am

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editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

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