General Debate 4 April 2013

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Judith

3 Options for building a Christchurch Cathedral

Just who should make the decision?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10875299
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April 4, 2013 8:14am
Keeping Stock

Well done to The Press for finding a way to name the two men accused of bashing Jesse Ryder, and thus rendering an application for name suppression pretty much irrelevant. Now though the alleged assailants are “upset and worried” about the fate that awaits them. It’s a shame that they didn’t think of that before they allegedly beat Ryder to the ground, allegedly kicked him in the head then allegedly beat him down again after he struggled to his feet.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/8505884/Family-anxious-over-Ryder-attack-hearing
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April 4, 2013 8:15am
All_on_Red

I thought this was funny. Jay Leno on the Tonight Show.
“And in a groundbreaking move, the Associated Press, the largest news gathering outlet in the world, will no longer use the term ‘illegal immigrant.’ That is out. No longer ‘illegal immigrant.’ They will now use the phrase ‘undocumented Democrat.’ That is the newest – ‘undocumented Democrat.’
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April 4, 2013 8:25am
Manolo

Jobs for the boys, the bro ones: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8505631/Bid-for-Tamihere-to-sit-in-for-Durie
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April 4, 2013 8:26am
Manolo

Arming the would-be jihadists: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/04/03/world-most-powerful-rifle-raising-fears-in-hands-syrian-rebels/
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April 4, 2013 8:27am
KiwiGreg

I don’t know Judith, maybe the owners?
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April 4, 2013 8:56am
mandk

Nauseating. The PR campaign on behalf of the thugs has started.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8505995/Family-of-Ryder-attack-accused-are-anxious
The perpetrators are victims too, you know!
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April 4, 2013 9:07am
Ryan Sproull

Woke to very sad news: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/apr/03/iain-banks-gall-bladder-cancer
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April 4, 2013 9:26am
David Garrett

One of the alleged attackers of Ryder “has a bit of a reputation but can be as good as gold”

translation: not a bad bloke when sober, but steer well clear of him when he’s on the drink. But what’s the younger one’s excuse? They are a bit far south for colonization to be a major factor…
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April 4, 2013 9:29am
Dean Papa

But what’s the younger one’s excuse?

born in Oz, according to article. So I suspect we’ll be claiming he is an Ozzie. Our Jesse was bashed by a dirty ocker!
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April 4, 2013 9:37am
iMP

HAVE A LAUGH. The Knights of Nee Trekking thru the Night Sky.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/04/04/star-trek-vs-monty-python/
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April 4, 2013 9:38am
joana

From what I could tell , the younger one is the one who attacked him the second time. Will he get more charges or will they be treated the same way, as both being equally culpable?
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April 4, 2013 9:40am
David Garrett

And since violent criminals seem to have our attention this morning …read about (I dont know how to do links) Kiel Andrew Pearce on Stuff…this charmer gets a thrill out of stalking and killing cats, and imagines the pleasure would be heightened still further if he was able to kill a human…an excellent example of the type of person we need to be able to detain BEFORE they commit another crime…
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April 4, 2013 9:44am
Viking2

Interesting site if you want the latest tax stats.
http://www.ird.govt.nz/aboutir/external-stats/tax-statistics-sitemap.html
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April 4, 2013 9:50am
Dean Papa

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8505986/Bird-killing-sex-offender-to-live-in-caravan

he’s a paedophile, he needs to be be permanently detained, reoffending would seem inevitable.
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April 4, 2013 9:58am
Fletch

Arming the would-be jihadists: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/04/03/world-most-powerful-rifle-raising-fears-in-hands-syrian-rebels/

Manolo, and it’s the U.S arming them – practically arming it’s own foe. Treasonous really.
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April 4, 2013 10:01am
All_on_Red

Lord Monckton fights back.
http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2013/04/herald-apnz-find-monckton-no-easy-target/

Sir, – Kiwi scientists rally against climate change sceptic (April 2) twice describes me as a climate change “denier”. That hate speech is inaccurate. I do not deny we can change the climate: I question how much we do.
“The statement that “New Zealand’s top climate change scientists have rallied together to slam” me is inaccurate. A news agency reporter incited several scientists to comment. He did not let me reply.
The statement that I say “New Zealanders … shouldn’t be worried about rising temperatures or sea levels” inaccurately implies they are rising worryingly. Yet the IPCC’s climate-science head says warming has paused for 17 years. Sea level has risen for eight years at just 3.2 cm/century.
The statement that I oppose emissions trading because it is “too expensive” is inaccurate. I oppose it because it is cost-ineffective.”

Will the NZ Herald publish it? Will we see him interviewed by TV1, TV3 or even the Herald?
Nah, of course not. They cant handle the truth.
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April 4, 2013 10:12am
Judith

David Garrett (3,491) Says:
April 4th, 2013 at 9:44 am
————————–

All the signs of a psychopath. Life long parole and intensive supervision is the only thing that might stop him causing more harm. Psychopaths don’t ‘get better’, they just get better at what they do.
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April 4, 2013 10:19am
OneTrack

“A close family member, …, said the incident was “really tragic”.”

Yes, it was (and is) for Ryder. Not sure “tragic” really describes it for these two zombies though.

But they are “good boys” really – where is that wet bus ticket.
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April 4, 2013 10:25am
Elaycee

@All_on_Red: Monckton is in the studio with Leighton Smith on NewstalkZB at the moment.
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April 4, 2013 10:26am
David Garrett

Lifelong parole and intensive supervision would be incredibly costly, and won’t work. His mate Lloyd MacIntosh managed to reoffend against a baby notwithstanding that he was subject to “intensive supervision”, in fact IIRC it was 24 hour supervision.

Detained in a comfortable but totally secure facility is the only answer for human defects like this…one of our resident God botherers might even call them “God’s mistakes”.
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April 4, 2013 10:34am
ex-golfer

Has anyone heard any new policy released from the “left” lately?
Their appears to be a vacuum on that side of the house.
Last I can remember is the strange promise of building 100,000 homes using taxpayers money.
Oh yes – and the printing money farce (fancy name = QE)
I’d be interested if people like HamnEggs could give me any policy examples.
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April 4, 2013 10:36am
Fletch

Dammit, every time someone mentions Jesse Ryder, I end up with this song running through me head.
First line is “Jesse rides…”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdLDvaxpleM

Featuring the vocals of the great Steve Perry, of course.
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April 4, 2013 10:38am
ex-golfer

Name suppression – whats the point when the names were released in the general media overnight anyway?
I see Whale has blogged their names too – so I guess he may be held in contempt again. Strike 2?
This whole name suppression shit needs to be sorted out.
Name suppression rules have been overtaken by technology (you know, this new thing called the internet!!) and have not kept pace with the times.
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April 4, 2013 10:57am
liarbors a joke

Yep they have been named on Whaleoil for all to see…hope they are shitting their pants
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April 4, 2013 11:00am
Dean Papa

stuff article has now been edited to remove their names.
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April 4, 2013 11:22am
RRM

I notice their lawyer said their POV is that it was a “fight” not an “attack” and it did not start for no reason.

Maybe we should wait for some sort of trial to take place before we decide the rights and wrongs of the name suppression?
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April 4, 2013 11:26am
liarbors a joke

‘The uncle, a 37-year-old builder, faces a charge of injuring Ryder with reckless disregard for Ryder’s safety, and a joint charge of assaulting him.

His nephew, 20, a carpet layer, of Christchurch, is charged with assaulting Ryder, as well as the joint charge of assault.

They were arrested at the weekend but have been on police bail pending their initial court appearances at the Nga Hau e Wha marae in Aranui today.

The older man owns a construction company in Christchurch. Both men have given the same address in Shirley as their residence at the time of their arrest.”
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April 4, 2013 11:29am
wreck1080

“Mighty River Power’s directors are getting hefty increases in fees ahead of the company’s float, State Owned Enterprises Minister Tony Ryall has announced.

The Government announced that the annual fees for directors would increase by 73 per cent to $85,000 a year.”

Does this only annoy me? These guys are like looting the company while they can.
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April 4, 2013 11:30am
liarbors a joke

Here’s me thinking I was the only one who thought Journey and SP were shit hot Fletch, not a lot of other people seem to rate them.
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April 4, 2013 11:45am
Longknives

Journey always remind me of the legendary Rodney Dangerfield

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3A9rLoz_0o
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April 4, 2013 11:51am
dime

my buddy went to journey las month. said they kicked ass. obviously not the original line up.

i have some buddies in metal bands who love journey. personally im not a fan. maybe a bit of “dont stop believing” but thats about it
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April 4, 2013 11:58am
David Garrett

RRM: Guilt or innocence is not the point that is being made; the point – as I read it – is that this farce yet again demonstrates how the whole law regarding (sorry “around”) name suppression needs an overhaul in age of the internet and social media.

It risks the courts being held up to ridicule if they routinely give name suppression to people whose names have already been – quite legally – plastered all over the net six hours earlier. Right here, DPF has no doubt quickly scanned this thread to remove the names – if they were there – whereas anyone who printed off the thread in the form it was two hours ago not only knows them, but has written evidence to back up that knowledge.
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April 4, 2013 12:12pm
Longknives

Don’t Stop Believing was ruined when it got hijacked by that TV show about the all gay High School…
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April 4, 2013 12:53pm
mandk

Evidently, the lawyer for the two who allegedly attacked Ryder said it wasn’t a Jesse hate crime.
That makes it all right, then. They attacked some poor bastard at random.
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April 4, 2013 1:37pm
James Stephenson

maybe a bit of “dont stop believing” but thats about it

Can I just play pop pedant (they’re not *really* a rock band, are they?) and point out the the title of the song is “Don’t Stop Believin'”?
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April 4, 2013 1:48pm
Scott

All on red at 10:12 a.m. about climate change, previously known as global warming.
Is the earth really getting warmer?

“How we shivered through the coldest Easter Sunday ever! And spring is set to be chillier than winter for the first time in 38 YEARS
Easter Sunday was the coldest since records began
Temperatures dipped to -12.5C in Braemar, Scotland
Below average temperatures to remain until mid-April
Cold snap leads to a shortage of daffodils
Newborn lambs and puffins unable to find food starve to death”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301851/UK-Weather-Spring-set-chillier-winter-time-38-YEARS.html#ixzz2PS536h4u
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April 4, 2013 1:59pm
All_on_Red

Scott,
Over the last 100 years globally we have got warmer. Its about .07 degrees. However since satellites (RSS and UAH) were launched in 1978 and 1979 they have been able to move away from using land based temp measuring systems (Stevenson Screens have faults- Urban Heat Island Effect for example). The data shows from then to date that the temp has gone up and down. Currently its .018 above when they started in 79.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2013/04/uah-global-temperature-update-for-march-2013-0-18-deg-c-again/
Note the sea data on that site too.
If you examine the raw data for NZ from the seven station series measured from 1885, NZ has in fact cooled. However we are a group of islands surrounded by sea in the middle of nowhere.However , for reasons they wont say and calcs they wont disclose, NIWA adjusted the early data downwards to create an upward trend… They call it “homogenization”.

The short answer is that its too soon to tell if we really are warming or cooling. You need measurement for a long long period. I really hope its warming as the cold will kill many many people.

What really concerns me is that politically lead initiatives changing energy production to Wind and Solar is hugely expensive and massively inefficient. This artificially subsidised form of energy is pushing energy costs up leading to fuel poverty and people are dying because of it.

I think what is politically pertinent is that whilst CO2 and Water Vapour mix as Greenhouse Gases to create heat, the climate does appear to be not as sensitive to further heating, through what they call positive feedback and Radiative Forcing. This last stage is where we see predictions of the temp raising by 3-6 degrees C. I think that CO2/water vapour probably create .07 to 1.2 extra warming per century based on the consensus from scientists I trust. But the extra- I don’t think so.
So the meme that CO2 is evil and must be stopped ain’t necessarily so. Recent studies show plant growth has increased 6% in the last 10 years as CO2 has gone from 350 to 392 PPM. The optimum level for plants is 2000 ppm. Man dies at 5000ppm.
Hope that helps.
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April 4, 2013 3:02pm
Fletch

i have some buddies in metal bands who love journey. personally im not a fan. maybe a bit of “dont stop believing” but thats about it

I have a soft spot for a few of their songs. I LOVE the guitar solo on Who’s Crying Now: one of Neal Schon’s best I think.
Still, I always liked Survivor the best when I was in high school. Very catchy songs, and Jimi ‘The Voice’ Jamison is a great singer as well. He has just released a new album which captures that great 80s feel –

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo3cp3NaIf0
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April 4, 2013 3:19pm
All_on_Red

I also think that one of the major problems we have from using fossil fuels like coal for energy is the emission of soot or black carbon. Not only does it produce health problems with poor air quality but the soot falls onto say snow and ice and absorbs heat. So they melt. The Albedo effect.
Improvements in scrubbing technology to get rid if that from coal fired power stations are happening. If only they had spent some of the many billions allocated to subsidizing wind and solar on that we would be further ahead. Solid Energy might be in a better shape too. 🙂
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April 4, 2013 3:28pm
All_on_Red

Edit-Its about .07 degrees – sorry .7 degrees C
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April 4, 2013 3:40pm
Nookin

When I read the headline below, I thought that some civil dispute might have culminated in a bit of biff which led to the criminal courts. After all, except in special circumstances where there is a statutory foundation for an instant fine, only the courts can impose a fine. It turns out, however, that there was no fine. This was a civil dispute with the man who was allegedly “fined” was able to successfully defend a claim for something around $100,000. All he had to pay was around $7500. The headline is misleading to the extent that one wonders whether the editor is either incredibly thick or so devious as to spice up what is really a trivial story by introducing wholly unjustifiable scandalous connotations.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8509677/Hangar-dispute-earns-man-7500-fine
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April 4, 2013 4:54pm
bc

Manolo @ 8.26am

Yes I agree, “jobs for the boys” is disgraceful. Here is another one:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8507144/Key-forgets-tip-to-friend-over-spy-job
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April 4, 2013 5:41pm
bc

Oh I forgot, Manolo only talks about the “friendly native” examples.
It’s ok when white people do it, including our own PM.
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April 4, 2013 5:51pm
Viking2

In December, New Zealand Post sold its 35 per cent stake in Datacom to The Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation, the “Cullen Fund” or NZ Super Fund, for $142m, in a deal that implicitly valued the company at $405m.

Today.
Datacom has sold its 850-strong Asian contact centre business, based in Malaysia and the Philippines, to United States firm Convergys for an undisclosed sum.

Hmnm, so one wonders how much your super funds have lost on this deal then?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8509712/Datacom-sells-contact-centre-to-US-firm
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April 4, 2013 7:11pm
Viking2

Now if the super funds had bothered to ask around and then decided to invest a few dollars here that would make much more sense.

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/41413-port-opens-new-wharf-extension.html

The $30 million northern extension to the Port of Tauranga’s Sulphur Point Wharf is officially open.

The project, including a 170metre wharf extension, installation of a Super-Port Panamax ganrty crane and new straddle carriers, was officially opened by Prime Minister John Key today.

The number of trains between the Tauranga Container Terminal and the inland port, MetroPort in Auckland is currently five per day with capacity to at least double. Five trains equates to 530 TEUs each way per day.
====================

Eat ya heart out Auckland ratepayers.
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April 4, 2013 7:15pm
SPC

One day you are digging a hole and burying the political corpse of someone who cannot remember they have a foreign bank account and then writing the tombstone inscription.

The next you are digging up the grave and becoming the political corpse of someone who cannot remember the phone call they made that led to a friend becoming head of the GCSB, and leaving it to others to write the tombstone on their joint grave site.

Lest we forget, because of their sacrifices they made, today we can bank using a cell phone and will remember them, unlike … (they should have asked Mr Fletcher he has access to records of both the phone call and the bank account).
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April 4, 2013 7:39pm
Longknives

An entertaining read…

http://www.cracked.com/article_20364_6-famous-geniuses-you-wont-believe-were-perverts.html
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April 4, 2013 7:44pm
nasska

The Bad News: Recent pictures show North Korean Dictator Kim Jon-un in front of his his IMac Planning nuclear attacks on D.C., L.A. and Austin.

The Good News: He is using Apple Maps.
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April 4, 2013 8:01pm
Reid

Hey look, yet another massive fire in a steel-framed skyscraper and guess what, it didn’t collapse. (under it’s own weight at the speed of freefall through the path of most resistance. Again.)

Crikey.

Who’da thunk.

http://rt.com/news/chechnya-tallest-building-fire-280/
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April 4, 2013 8:32pm
Bob

Kim Jong Um is going to war with the US. What sort of nut cases are they? America could wipe the whole country off the face of the earth in a couple of hours. I suspect it is the old story of propaganda for home consumption to make the people forget their miseries. With no news whatever from outside the borders how do ordinary North Koreans know what is really going on. I would suggest America place two prominent nuclear submarines on either side of the peninsula with the implied threat of a barrage of nuclear weapons. As for missiles fly over and bomb them as soon as they appear. Around 1980 Israel bombed a nuclear fuel generating plant as soon as it was completed in Iraq putting paid to Sadam Husseins plans to bomb Israel. Why not do the same to North Korea? As has happened to other dictatorships when the people realise their leaders are in reality weak blusterers they will overthrow them. Even the massive army will lose the will to fight.

The biggest danger would be the army pouring into South Korea causing a lot of death and destruction before they can be stopped.
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April 4, 2013 8:33pm
Scott Chris

Woke to very sad news

Yup Ryan, very sad news. Banks is one of the very best.
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April 4, 2013 8:34pm
Fletch

Kim Jong Um, I think, needs to be put over someone’s knee and given a good spanking.
He’s probably never had one.
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April 4, 2013 8:42pm
Big Tim

Hi Reid

Out of curiosity did said skyscraper get hit by a object weighing 100,000 of kgs traveling at high speed?
because maybe such an event would destabilise a structure?
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April 4, 2013 8:43pm
nasska

Bob

If North Korea was hit hard they would definitely fold then the North & South would unite as one country. Trouble is I’m not sure that any of the local players want to see that happen.

1) The costs of dragging the former North into the 21st century would near cripple the South.

2) Japan’s people would not sleep easily next to another large militarised country with which it enjoyed less than cordial relations.

3) China don’t want a large border between itself & a new western aligned nation.
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April 4, 2013 8:54pm
Reid

Out of curiosity did said skyscraper get hit by a object weighing 100,000 of kgs traveling at high speed?
because maybe such an event would destabilise a structure?

No Tim and who knows whether it was designed to withstand such a hit either, as both the Twin Towers were, in anticipation of the possibility that such an event might destabilise the structure. But the accident report didn’t blame that anyway, so you can discount that hallucination, and think up another one.

Grasping at straws, you guys. Must be all that cognitive dissonance.

No, the laws of physics weren’t apparently very well on 11/9/01 were they, they were acting all peculiar. But then, it came right again and all of a sudden, massive skyscapers engulfed in huge balls of fire suddenly started not falling down anymore, just like they always had both before, and since.

Gee, who’da thunk.
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April 4, 2013 8:55pm
Reid

So for those who like Occam’s Razor, which is the more likely here?

The laws of physics weren’t operating properly in NY on 11/9/01? There was a glitch in the matrix?

-Or-

Some other forces were involved, all of which complied with the laws of physics, which caused the buildings to fall at the speed of freefall through the path of most resistance?

Tough choice isn’t it for you intellectuals and scientists out there. Er… laws of physics, or something else?

Gee, who’da thunk lots of people out there would have chosen the “something else” option?

Crikey, they must be mental.

Yes Timmy, they are.
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April 4, 2013 9:23pm
Big Tim

Fair enough Reid

Lets put it this way.
I believe being struck by a large heavy object which was loaded with jet fuel and travelling at high speed is a fairly good explanation for a building to be damaged enough fr it to collapse.
You seem to be implying you have a superior explanation.
Lets hear it.

I will remind you however that you have already invoked William of Occam.
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April 4, 2013 9:34pm
UglyTruth

http://www.eclectech.co.uk/mindcontrol.php
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April 4, 2013 9:39pm
Pauleastbay

Tim, tim, tim you silly well meaning young fella. Have you any idea what you have started?

CIA trained aliens from Area 57 paid for by wealthy Semites were to blame, the why will now be explained to you by Reid probably more than once.
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April 4, 2013 9:40pm
Reid

Don’t listen to him Tim, Paul’s just ~~jealous~~ disaffected because I haven’t told him about the sex training they do. Yet. (As far as I can recall.)

But seriously.

Laws of physics?

Or something else?

There’s no third alternative.

Sorry. Wish there were, but there isn’t.
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April 4, 2013 9:43pm
UglyTruth

I will remind you however that you have already invoked William of Occam.

Which is the simplest explanation for nanothermite residue and large quantities of fine particulates?

a) Energy from nanothermite and/or other sources.
b) The laws of physics were suspended due to unknown factors.
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April 4, 2013 9:45pm
Big Tim

Reid

My understanding of the laws of physics:

-Heavy objects travelling at high speeds have a lot of kinetic energy and momentum
-Jet fuel burns easily and produces a lot of heat.
-Sudden impacts with high energy and momentum damage buildings
-Burning jet fuel also damages buildings
-Badly damaged buiding sometimes fall

All perfectly consistent with the laws of physics. You are saying that I am missing something. Which particular law of physics?

You are quoting Occmas razor which (paraphrased) suggests that the simplest explanation is usually the best one. I am waiting for a simple explanation from you.
I repeat, which law of physics was broken?
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April 4, 2013 9:49pm
UglyTruth

Big Tim,

What you are missing is the quanitity of energy involved.

The following energy estimates are from Jim Hoffman:

energy, KWH source or sink
+ 111,000 falling of mass (1.97e11 g falling average of 207 m)
– 135,000 crushing of concrete (9e10 g to 60 micron powder)
ignoring water vaporization
– 400,000 heating of gasses (2e9 g air from 300 to 1020 K)
– 11,300,000 heating of suspended concrete (9e10 g from 300 to 1020 K)
assuming water vaporization sink was not supply-limited
– 1,496,000 vaporization of water (2.38e9 g water)
– 41,000 heating of gasses (2e9 g air from 300 to 373 K)
– 1,145,000 heating of suspended concrete (9e10 g from 300 to 373 K)

http://911research.wtc7.net/papers/dustvolume/volumev3_1.html
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April 4, 2013 9:56pm
Reid

You seem to be implying you have a superior explanation.
Lets hear it.

I do have a superior explanation, but that’s not important, because it’s my opinion and we’ll see what history reveals on this and I’m going to wait until then. What I do have, just like anyone has with JFK, is reams and reams of very good questions which remain unanswered and unaddressed, apart from amateur “debunker” sites who pretend like the strawman to address the question but don’t. Like the laws of physics one. How can a building fall through the path of most resistance at freefall speed? That doesn’t compute. It doesn’t. Even when you apply the pancake. Because when you apply the pancake to the building design, which had a massive core, you would get a stack of floors with a platter sticking up in the middle, and that’s not what we saw, was it. No, instead we saw the intact parts of the building disintegrating and not just turning into chunks but turning into dust, and this doesn’t happen, in the physics world, when you calculate the forces required to pulverise the material vs the kinetic energy available. The physics world is where the Madrid and the Grozney skyscrapers live.

The point about 911, like the point about JFK, is what happened afterward. JFK a few days before he died announced a wind-down of the “policing” operation in Vietnam. A week afterward Johnson announced a revision of the “reassessment” and history came to pass. That wasn’t the only motive, there are two others that I personally consider additional candidates. But anyone whose looked into that, and concludes all is kosher, isn’t thinking straight, and same with 911. What they’re thinking about, is how to preserve the world they live in and make what they’ve seen fit that perception. That’s what they’re doing. Understandable. After all, if the country you admire and think you know, murders its own President and no-one says anything, what does that say about that country and who runs it? And that’s what they rely on.

They used the building shutdowns in the two weeks prior to 911 to plant cutting explosives in the main core. The building’s strength was in the core, that’s what held it up. Luckily, Jeb Bush’s company was in charge of
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April 4, 2013 10:12pm
Big Tim

Ok guys I am going to bed know – thank you for your input.
Reid, lets just say that you and I have different interpretations of Occam’s razor. I do agree however that we should let history decide in the end
Ugly truth – those are indeed some big numbers. Howver they may be a bit more meaningful to me if you put a unit on them.
i.e. 110,000 falling of mass sounds big but does not help. 110,000 joule or 110,000 KJ conveys more meaning.

Good night all
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April 4, 2013 10:18pm
UglyTruth

Big Tim, the units were labelled as KWH, killowatt hours. To convert to KJ multiply by 3600.
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April 5, 2013 9:15am
UglyTruth

For anyone who is still skeptical, imagine cutting a tower in half and grinding the two halves into each other. Assuming uniform construction the ends of the two halves are going to disintegrate at the same rate, and at the end of the exercise both will be completely disintegrated. Now imagine cutting the tower closer to the top, at the same height as the planes impacted and repeating the exercise. By the time the top part has completely disintegrated the bottom will have only been partially destroyed.

In reality construction wasn’t uniform as the steel cores were more massive towards the bottom, and what actually happened was that there was virtually nothing left of the bottom parts despite the plane impacts being near the top of the towers.
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April 5, 2013 9:32am
Big Tim

Thanks that puts in in context.

The bad news is that the context it puts it into is far too high to be believable. The “ little boy” bomb that hit Hiroshima is estimated to release between 54 and 75 terajoules of energy (or about 15 million to 20.5 million kilowatt hours if you prefer that unit). Based on the calculations you have above that is the range you are getting into.
In the format of the questions asked to me above.
Which is more likely?
-Does it require something of the magnitude a small nuclear device to take down a building? Nothing smaller could possibly do it
Or
-Conspiracy theorist have made a slight error in their calculations somewhere
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April 5, 2013 9:36am
UglyTruth

Big Tim, one of the possible sources is a micronuke. Evidence for a nuclear explosion is the shape of the dust plumes, the presence of elements associated with nuclear explosions, and Rodriguez’s report of a man who was severely burned in the basement.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/09/12/911-truth-will-out-the-vancouver-hearings-ii/

The Vancouver Hearings featured multiple speakers who addressed the elements besides thermitic chips that appear in dust samples collected by the USGS and in water samples collected by the Department of Energy, which provide proof of how it was done, namely: that the destruction of the WTC has to have been a nuclear event, which we would not know but for studies of the dust, which revealed the presence of elements that should either have been absent or not present in the quantity found, including Barium and Strontium, Thorium and Uranium, Lithium, Lanthanum, Yttrium, Chromium and Tritium, which are overwhelming indications that the demolition of the Twin Towers was primarily a nuclear event.
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April 5, 2013 9:53am
Big Tim

OK so the world trade centre fell ,not as a result of bring hit by a plane, but as a result of a nuclear device. Thank you for clearing that up. I think I may cease this coversation here as I do not believe either of us will have the slightest impact on the other with our arguements

Cheers
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April 5, 2013 10:45am

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