General Debate 29 April 2013

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CHFR

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/8606961/Pensioners-caught-in-loan-squeeze

Not so sure a 66 year old who took out a $4000 loan in 1999 and not paid it back is the best example you could come up with.
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April 29, 2013 8:07am
Pete George

Snubbing the will of Parliament is the right of Government but needs to be very carefully exercised. If also going against the clear preference of the people it risks being branded as anti-democratic.

Democracy demands no National veto of Parental Leave bill
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April 29, 2013 8:08am
KiwiGreg

Actually Pete Parliament can override government, it’s jsut a question of votes.

Idiocracy would be to assume you can continue to increase the costs of employment without harming the economy (and indeed employees).
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April 29, 2013 8:21am
trout

Older people who do not pay back student loans have the benefit of knowing that the loan is written off when they die. An anomaly surely ; why is there not a claim on their estate?
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April 29, 2013 8:29am
CHFR

Agreed Trout but my question is how can someone with a 4k loan not pay it off in 14 years. My last year at Uni was the first year of student loans and I ended up with about the same amount and paid it off in 3 years. I wasn’t in well paying jobs at all and often earned just above the minimum wage (my choice I should add as I wasn’t too worried about income at the time) so how the hell has this man not paid his off?
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April 29, 2013 8:31am
flipper

So what exactly would all those that voted for paid parental leave cut to cover the cost – whatever the actual amount is?

Less spending in Ch Ch?
Less national Super?
Less spending on Health?
Reinstate interest on all student loans?
A flat 10 % surtax on all NZEI/PPTA jerks? (With a gain of about 300 million?)
A 100 per cent in crease in road speed camera thefts?

Putting aside the idiotic belief (held by many) that the State should pay for women to have children, it is bloody easy to advocate spending more. The poll questions never (DPF PLEASE NOTE) ask about cost and funding.

Just plain silly.
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April 29, 2013 8:38am
Manolo

“Please accept my apologies. I am truly sorry. Thank you for all your support. I hold the Radio Australians Mel Greig and Michael Christian responsible for this act. Please make them pay my mortgage. I am sorry,” the paper said Ms Saldanha wrote.

Yes. And holidays for my family for the next 20 years, too. What a crock.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4906770/jacintha-saldanha-left-suicide-note-blaming-australian-radio-djs.html
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April 29, 2013 8:40am
Yoza

Wow, you really are one nasty piece of work, Manolo. That poor woman.
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April 29, 2013 8:56am
Pete George

Putting aside the idiotic belief (held by many) that the State should pay for women to have children

Far better to support working mothers taking time off at the most important time for them and their babies, and making it easier for them to choose to return to the workforce. Three months is just too soon for many mothers.

A better start for babies, and more chance of mothers returning to the workforce, makes paid parental leave one of the better investments Government could make.

I’d be happy to see other spending adjusted to accommodate this. Governments re-adjust spending priorities all the time.
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April 29, 2013 8:57am
Kea

Putting aside the idiotic belief (held by many) that the State should pay for women to have children

We spend millions on paying women to have sex. Of course not all girls are like that. The honest decent ones do not do it at the tax payers expense and believe in the free market approach. This tried and tested model has worked for thousands of years. Many actually pay tax rather than sucking thousands of tax dollars a year from the workers.
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April 29, 2013 8:58am
Judith

The amount taken from the pensions for those owing student loans would have an effect of their budget – HOWEVER, presuming the qualification they gained was completed, they should be able to offset the difference by at least doing a few hours part-time work to make up for the difference. Even if their profession requires physical activity they can no longer do, they could teach others the skill, tutor, perhaps even write about it – there are a number of ways for pensioners to earn the small difference.

Those that will be caught out by this are the ones that did not complete their qualifications, did not learn anything or were encouraged to take part in one of the many non-academic course designed to do nothing but elicit money from unwary individuals – e.g. Degrees in Aromatherapy. Our universities and polytechs can provide instruction in almost anything you desire, their administrators eager to increase profits will gladly sign off student loan requirements and ensure you pass, to increase their through-put rates. The production of knowledge is secondary – the commodification of knowledge is a disgrace and has effectively lowered the value of academic achievement.
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April 29, 2013 9:01am
Kea

Manolo, Jacintha Saldanha had a history of mental health issues. She was also deeply unhappy in her work and with hospital staff.

The whole thing was a beat up. Her family failed to provide her with support when she was alive. If anyone has blood on their hands it is them and the hospital staff. Not a couple of DJ’s
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April 29, 2013 9:06am
Pete George

Actually Pete Parliament can override government, it’s jsut a question of votes.

In this case it looks like Parliament will have enough votes, but National are threatening to override that with a veto.

Government has a fiscal responsibility, but they also have a democratic responsibility.

They can justiify going ahead with their MOM asset programme despite significantly changed and questionable financial conditions.

It will increase their political risks significantly if they go against both Parliament and the public (polls).
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April 29, 2013 9:06am
dime

“Far better to support working mothers taking time off at the most important time for them and their babies, and making it easier for them to choose to return to the workforce. Three months is just too soon for many mothers.”

aww bless them.

if you cant afford em, dont have em.
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April 29, 2013 9:11am
iMP

So, this gay Aussie MP wants to ban or legislatively harrass a Kiwi visiting Oz because he disagrees with him. Riii-ght.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/hateful-gay-oz-mp-tries-to-ban-kiwi-from-oz/
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April 29, 2013 9:14am
dime

Dime was driving to work this morning and started thinking about what life will be like under a greens/labour govt. (greens being the senior partner).

Obviously its going to hurt. I can almost see the glee on lefties faces when they jack the top tax rate. outright celebration from the sniveling, lisping, creepy bearded little fucks.

Of course, the ones that pay the biggest price under a far left govt are the poor. Sure, they will hit Dime in the pocket, but ill still be better off than those earning low wages.

It will also be interesting to see how much Dime can endure before he just fucks off. I love NZ but is it worth it we have have 6-9 years of reasonably high tax followed by 6-9 of socialism – huge tax, constantly being told im a scumbag etc etc

Its a shame Labour cant get its act together.

The 7 racists seats dont help a lot either… or the no morals racist party and that shit head with the wind tunnel tested hair do
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April 29, 2013 9:15am
flipper

PETE…

Please show your hand.

Which items would YOU cut to raise/save say 250million (or whatever the figure is)?

No matter how dressed up, attempts at social engineering never works.

It actually results in the implementation of the law of unintended consequences, does it not?
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April 29, 2013 9:22am
Kea

As soon as I hear “think of the children” I know I am about to hear some emotive drivel. It is a classic manipulation that appeals to emotion when there is no logical argument to advance.

The attitude that society owes women a favour for getting knocked up needs to change. It is resulting in a benefit dependent under class and the cost of the benefits is only the tip of a very large iceberg. The biggest threat to traditional family values is not gays, but is straight women being paid to pump out kids.
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April 29, 2013 9:22am
Judith

Kea (3,787) Says:
April 29th, 2013 at 9:22 am
—————————

Kea, I understand what you are trying to say – but you should know, the amount paid to solo mothers is to support the child/children – it is not an amount paid separately as an acknowledgement of her wonderful achievement. It is not such a copious amount that they can afford Gucci, Chanel and Burberry – it covers the basics and little else.

Whilst I agree changes are needed – lets at least be honest about what is paid and what isn’t. Would you have those children starve because of their parents stupidity (it does take 2 to make a baby – please let me know if you need more advise on that) If a child suffering is emotional drivel – then you seriously need to get in touch with your feminine side – apparently you guys have 1000 female genes compared to 46 male – so you are more girl anyway! 😉

Adoption has historically been fraught with problems – especially for the adopted child – I do not know what the answer is, but I do know that solo mothers are not getting rich from the money they are paid on welfare. If they are wealthy, then you can bet they have another scheme going on.
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April 29, 2013 9:32am
Pete George

Flipper – National have claimed the cost will be $150 million per year.

Labour are disputing that. They are waiting for it to be costed – they should have done that when they drafted the bill, or at least when it was drawn from the ballot. But I think we have to have the detail to lokm at where that money could come from.

Unintended consequences, or unforeseen consequences, can be both positive and negative.
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April 29, 2013 9:36am
Manolo

The virulent feminist has expressed his opinion. Surely, we, males have no heart!
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April 29, 2013 9:36am
JeffW

The DPB needs to change to a one time, genuine “accident” type situation. If people do not know where babies come from and how to protect themselves, then having one but no prospect of additional monies for additional babies, things will change.
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April 29, 2013 9:37am
Kea

Judith, predictably you have come at me with the “think of the children/starving babies” angle. I am not buying it sorry.

If we remove the option there will be way less kids being born to mothers with no means to support them. At the moment it is considered a valid career option to pump out a meal ticket.

If we remove the option, then family will gather around the young mother and support both her and her baby. I have been to countries where there is no welfare for getting laid. I saw no starving babies in the street.

As for your attempt to transfer responsibility to the father (assuming she knows who the father is) I am not buying that either. The male has no say at all over the future of the child, or over abortion/adoption etc. He is just there to finance the womans life style choice.
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April 29, 2013 9:40am
Judith

JeffW (208) Says:
April 29th, 2013 at 9:37 am
—————————-

I can agree with that – although my primary concern is always for the welfare of the child. They are our future – whatever policies are enforced should always protect the children.
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April 29, 2013 9:41am
KiwiGreg

@ dime we had that discussion last week in the office. Certainly you should dump any NZ shares if they look likely to win (waiting til they do will be too late). The tax increase is a certainty as is a range of goofy, economy damaging policies. It will come down to the individual choice (and options). Last time under Labour the kids were younger and the ties stronger, next time (and the vagaries of MMP and the demographics of NZ make it almost certain there will be a “next time”) who knows.

If I left the country the left would cheer as it would make NZ “more equal” and therefore “better” so I don’t expect any policies from them to make me want to stay. 3 of my siblings have already made that move.
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April 29, 2013 9:42am
Judith

Kea (3,789) Says:
April 29th, 2013 at 9:40 am
———————————

When the DPB was not an option, children were still born to single mothers at similar rates. Families often did not support and in fact distanced themselves from both the women and the children, so I am sorry but your comment is not supported by historical evidence.

Men are responsible as well – if they don’t wish to father a child then they too have the option of using contraception. Men do have an option of being involved in their children’s lives. The Courts are available to ensure that is so, unless there is some unfavourable reason for the male not being involved.

The male is just as responsible for that child – he has a choice to become a father or not – just the same as the female has to being a mother. Men who don’t protect themselves deserve to pay for their thoughtless behaviour. I don’t buy your excuse that the male of the species holds no responsibility.

The father can be determined by DNA testing. Most women know, but for various reasons won’t tell. The DPB requires the fathers name to be supplied.
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April 29, 2013 9:48am
flipper

Judith… e al…

There is one major problem with the now universal view of the DPB. It has become a permanent support mechanism for a large section of the working age population. (please do not give me garbage about jobs)

It was introduced by then Social Welfare Minister Colin McLaughlin ( A less likely advocate I cannot imagine.) The BILL was presented after 9.30pm, and thus attracted little attention.) RDM had signed off on it, and the National Party had no opposition from Labour. Why?

The specific purpose of the new benefit was to assist mothers deserted overnight (and without any means of support) by errant husbands/partners. It was NEVER intended to cover single mothers as they are known today. It was totally an emergency benefit, and of short duration. At least that was the stated intent.

It was later extended (can recall by whom) to cover a much wider group as it does today.

My own belief, having seen the evolution of this sensible short term help into a near permanent support payment, is that it should be wound back, and back, and back.

First “strike” – OK for 12 months.
Second strike OK for 9 months.
Third strike of for months.
Fourth and successive -ZIP.

Hard-nosed? No. Realistic.

The state paid parental leave benefit is now, if the red melons and labour have their way, a new “DPB” in the making.

No thanks.
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April 29, 2013 10:24am
iMP

So, now the jihadis are defacing American dollar bills. Go and use Yemeni goats for trade, then.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/04/29/god-money/
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April 29, 2013 10:26am
dime

kiwigreg – i dont really want to live in aussie but my circumstances have changed and im not as tied to nz as i was.

i can start an aussie branch of the business im in. bit of risk but shit happens.

what will the interest rates be under the socialists? are we talking low because the economy is fucked? or back to 10% as inflation will be though the roof.

JK was speaking to that chardonnay socialist “i yelled at my children” chick on zb this morning. he said in the last 5 years National have increased spending by 1.9 billion. In labours last 5 years they increased spending by 19 billion. thats insane.
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April 29, 2013 10:33am
dime

PG – why wont you answer flippers question?

youre waiting it to be costed? ffs.

lets say its 100 million – how do you pay for it?

and we all know these weird policies start out smallish and balloon out like fuck.
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April 29, 2013 10:35am
Kea

Judith:

“When the DPB was not an option, children were still born to single mothers at similar rates. ‘

Bullshit and you know it.

“Families often did not support and in fact distanced themselves from both the women and the children, so I am sorry but your comment is not supported by historical evidence.”

So there were starving babies in the street before the DPB ? More bullshit.

“Most women know, but for various reasons won’t tell. The DPB requires the fathers name to be supplied.”

So there are starving babies in the street because the woman can’t identify daddy ? Bullshit again.

Have another coffee Judith, you are not yourself today 🙂
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April 29, 2013 10:36am
krazykiwi

Last week it was reported that 3,318 places in the USA had recorded their lowest temperatures for this time of year since records began.

Similar record cold was experienced by places in every province of Canada.

So cold has the Russian winter been that Moscow had its deepest snowfall in 134 years of observations.

Time to wake up people. We have been lied to, then taxed, and then lied to some more.
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April 29, 2013 10:43am
Judith

@ Kea

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/adoption/page-3

Perhaps you need to familiarise yourself with some data. The rates of children born to single mothers was actually greater per head of population than before the DPB.

The DPB application form requests the father’s name – go check the forms on line at WINZ.

Your suggestion that women cannot identify the fathers is a crock, the numbers of solo mothers on DPB who have not identified the father in <5%.

Again your sensationalist claptrap is not supported by evidence.
Perhaps it is you that needs the coffee or at least come out of the closet and acknowledge you hate women – whats the matter someone sting you for a moment of pleasure you'd like to forget?
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April 29, 2013 10:48am
Manolo

Time to wake up people. We have been lied to, then taxed, and then lied to some more.

Tell that to John Key and Nick Smith, proud parents of the ETS tax.
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April 29, 2013 10:48am
Kea

krazykiwi, you can count on all those discredited weathermen coming up with a new crisis to keep them relevant and the cash coming in. There is not much call for unemployed weathermen who tell lies, so there are few other options for them.
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April 29, 2013 10:49am
Kea

Judith:

1. Where is your evidence babies were starving before the DPB was introduced ?

2. Where is your evidence of starving babies because Mum does not know who the dad is ?

You made those claims, it is up to you to provide evidence.

Your position can be summarised thus: “Will somebody pleeeease think of the children” cluck cluck cluck.

My position may seem harsh, but would result in less neglected kids, not more.
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April 29, 2013 10:55am
Paulus

On increasing paid parental leave please forgive me, but I though contraceptives were still freely available in New Zealand.
Must have misunderstood.

Surely if a man and a woman choose to have a baby that is their responsibility whatever. Not yet is it possible to have a baby without the insemination of a male donor – no doubt it will come.

Why should the state support a great (hopefully) night of sex.
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April 29, 2013 10:59am
Judith

Kea (3,793) Says:
April 29th, 2013 at 10:55 am
—————————–

Please point to the exact statement where I said children/babies are starving?
I actually asked you a question ‘would you have children starve…’

I made no claims that said children were starving at all – you see what you want to see.

I made a claim that all policies should put the welfare of children first – the goes in all policy making – children are our most precious asset. FULL STOP.

I agree with Flipper – but there are ways of taking care of the children, that exclude the parent/s benefiting.
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April 29, 2013 11:00am
Pete George

David Shearer employee Mike Smith asked a question he might regret – Farmers unhappy about lower power prices?

It would be interesting to know if real farmers would rather have lower power prices, or banker Bruce as their spokesman. I’m not so sure that this latest addition to the NZPower naysayers chorus has much in the way of real arguments. His reaction seems more based on specious history and knee-jerk ideology.

He got a quick response:

I’m a farmer and let me think:

If the Lab/Greens get in well lets see what the net benefit of their combined policies would be in relation to power bills:

– NZ Power = -$300 p/a (maybe)

ETS increase = + how much??
Petrol tax increase = + how much??
Income tax increase = + how much??
Interest rate increase = + how much??
RMA red tape cost increase = + how much??
Capital Value lost through CGT = + how much??
Land Use restrictions = + how much??

Hmmmm I wonder which option I would rather go with the status quo or the watermelon nightmare?

There’s been a few followup comments but fairly muted. The left of left time are trying to ignite a fightback against criticism but struggling to spark much support.

And Eddie tries to stoke up the battle between narrow ideology and wider economics, taking a swipe at rick prick Doug Heffernan.

Farmers unhappy about lower power prices?
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April 29, 2013 11:05am
Kea

Paulus, If we want males to take responsibility for the babies they make, then we need to cut the DPB career option. And in spite of what some people will try and tell you, for many young women it is seen as a career option.

The DPB was set up with good intent and I sincerely wish it could continue. But it has been an economic and social disaster with consequences we will endure for a very long time.
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April 29, 2013 11:06am
Judith

flipper (1,551) Says:
April 29th, 2013 at 10:24 am

———————————–

Sorry I missed this comment before.

I would get rid of the DPB altogether and remove the emphasis to the children, whose needs would be monitored and met via other means, without putting any money in the parent/s pockets.

The parent regardless of whether the custodial parent or not, would then be required to pay support for their child from whatever income they get. If they are on the dole – then payments are deducted from that – effectively removing the ‘benefit’ of receiving more money for subsequent children.

I do note that the numbers of career beneficiaries on DPB are not as high as many would like to believe – but they are high enough to be concerning. As archaic as it sounds intensive supervision is required for the small number of families that remain fixed in the system for more than 12 months. Including an assigned case manager, home visits and if necessary control of finances and other such means.
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April 29, 2013 11:07am
Kea

Judith, ok so you agree then that no kids were starving before the DPB and no kids are starving because the mother did not name a father. See, it was not so hard to tell the truth was it ?

So why do we need the DPB ?

“children are our most precious asset” Bullshit. Breeding a benefit dependent underclass is not an asset. Our Court system, prisons and dole offices are full of your “precious” assets. That is just emotive drivel that appeals to maternal instinct not reason.

There is nothing new or original about my idea. Most of the world does not give young women the career option of pumping out meal tickets. Have you seen all the starving babies in Singapore ? No ? Nor have I …

Here is a taste of how things are done in Singapore. Note the contrast.

1. Special considerations?

If you are unwed, you are not entitled to government benefits for married couples with children. If you are under 35, you are not entitled to buy an HDB flat until you reach 35 years of age and when you do, you may only purchase under the “singles” scheme. If you are unwed, then your child is considered “illegitimate” which means that to make your child “legitimate”, you need to spend at least $3000 to adopt your own kid. This also means that if you die without a will, all your assets would be given to your parents and not your child because the government considers your child as “illegitimate”. And by the way, you still need to pay taxes and your child, if a son, has to serve National Service.

http://sg.theasianparent.com/so-you-want-to-be-a-single-mom-here-are-15-things-you-should-know/?repeat=w3tc
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April 29, 2013 11:17am
Kea

More from Singapore. What a change from the country with the most promiscuous women in the world (NZ) 🙂

8. Always remember that being a single mom is a choice

You could have gone for an abortion; you could have given your child away for adoption; you could have left your child outside a hospital (like a drama series), and you didn’t. Even though the situation wasn’t ideal. You chose to be a single mother, remember that.

14. What about dating?
What about dating? Feel free but please carry condoms since you know better now than to rely on the ‘other method’. And if you say condoms don’t work, then double up with other forms of contraceptives.

3. Child maintenance

Go for it! Unless of course getting a few hundred dollars is a real headache and simply not worth the emotional roller coaster or worse still, reliant dependency. For the record, I don’t get child maintenance. The last sum of money I got from my ex was to pay for the abortion that I did not go for, so I used it for maternity care instead. For those of you who are mothers, you know how far $2000 can get you in maternity care. The year I decided to take the leap of faith, quit my full time job and run Four Trimesters full time, I was barely afloat, if not sinking, for the first 1-1.5 years. Out of folly and desperation, I eventually decided that it was time my son’s biological father “paid his dues”. So I called him and explained the situation, and he asked me to email him in order to work out an arrangement. My emails starting bouncing back because he banned me from his email folder. Now this man owns more than 2 cars, lives in the prime district area. What can I say? I speculated as I did when he proposed marriage only upon finding out that I had canceled the scheduled abortion, that this was not a road worth walking, so I found another path.

http://sg.theasianparent.com/so-you-want-to-be-a-single-mom-here-are-15-things-you-should-know/
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April 29, 2013 11:28am
Judith

Kea (3,796) Says:
April 29th, 2013 at 11:17 am
Judith, ok so you agree then that no kids were starving before the DPB and no kids are starving because the mother did not name a father. See, it was not so hard to tell the truth was it ?
—————————–

Stop trying to be smart – it doesn’t become you.

I made no statement and will not make any statement regarding if and when children have starved because I do not know. I do know that children were bought up in situations that were far from ideal or even acceptable – however that is another issue.

Please don’t tell me what I agree with and don’t agree with – especially when you have no empirical evidence to support what you claim either.

As you value children so little, I do hope you will not require them to be paying the taxes that you will eventually draw your superannuation from – or running the services you will need but be too old to deliver yourself etc. Like it or not, eventually we will all require the support of the younger generation if we live old enough – it is therefore in our best interest to ensure that generation is capable as possible.
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April 29, 2013 11:33am
Judith

Kea (3,797) Says:
April 29th, 2013 at 11:28 am
——————
Asia is such a wonderful example of everything most kiwis embrace in life – you should go live there.
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April 29, 2013 11:35am
Kea

I do hope you will not require them to be paying the taxes that you will eventually draw your superannuation from

The “taxes” from the DPB you mean ?

Your bleeding heart ideology is clearly not working. The Singaporean way is working. I base my ideas on results, not appeals to emotion.
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April 29, 2013 11:37am
Kea

Asia is such a wonderful example of everything most kiwis embrace in life – you should go live there.

Judith, remember it is about the “precious assets” !

The outcomes for the “precious assets” in Singapore are a lot better than the outcomes for “precious assets” in NZ.

Like this ” precious asset” for example : http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/04/strike_two-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-1133926
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April 29, 2013 11:41am
Kea

Judith @ 11:07am

I would get rid of the DPB altogether…

Yet here she is getting all hysterical and emotional at me for saying the same thing as her. Women a ? 😉
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April 29, 2013 11:54am
iMP

Here we go. 4 naked lesbians attack the Catholic Archishop of Belgium in public on a Uni campus. Tolerance, much?

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/04/29/disgusting-attack-on-old-man-by-4-lesbians/
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April 29, 2013 12:11pm
Griff

Playing parrot chess judith
Kea is an expert
As with his comment on weathermen
a watts is the failed weather man eh Kea
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April 29, 2013 12:30pm
Pete George

Stuff report “Parekura Horomia unwell and “convalescing” at home”.

Duncan Garner expands on this: “Very good Maori sources tell me he doesn’t have long. I always called him ‘matua’, good guy, fun, and a throughly decent man.”

Sad news.
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April 29, 2013 12:34pm
Kea

Griff, now the AGW hoax is shattered whats next for you ?

Scientology seems a good fit, its even got the word “science” in there. 🙂
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April 29, 2013 12:43pm
Kea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq4Bc2WCsdE
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April 29, 2013 12:47pm
liarbors a joke

“I always called him ‘matua’, good guy, fun, and a throughly decent man.” ”

Why? Whats he ever done of use except keep Maccas in business.
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April 29, 2013 12:50pm
Griff

Still on your retardist view Kea
wake up and read some sience dingbat instead of wingnut web sites
Anyway you were giving J a lesson on parrot chess and misogony
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April 29, 2013 12:52pm
wreck1080

Sad to see Parekura Horomia is at the end of his life .

Anyone that big should expect an early death though.
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April 29, 2013 1:07pm
Kea

Yes some “sience” [sic] goes well with “misogony” [sic]

Best you stick to cut & pasting off alarmist web sites 🙂
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April 29, 2013 1:10pm
Longknives

This lying bitch should be in Guantanamo

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10880413
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April 29, 2013 1:34pm
kowtow

Imp

I’m glad you posted that item about the Belgian bishop.

Attacks by the looney feminist Femen tend to get a lot of media coverage. I suspect this one didn’t as it should result in serious questions about radical feminist extremist anti democratic behaviour.

Protest is fine but they assaulted the man ,at a debate on “Blasphemy,Offense or Freedom of Self Expression”.

No freedom to the opposition is what the radical left believe.

This bishop was also hauled before the courts in Belgium by homosexual activists because of his traditional views on homosexuality.
http://astuteblogger.blogspot.co.nz/2008/06/belgian-bishop-hauled-before-court-for.html

This happened in Europe ,the birthplace of democracy!

And in the UK you can’t call people sheep shaggers!
It’s called Racially aggravated disorderly behaviour.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10023732/Man-fined-for-racism-after-Welsh-sheep-slur.html

Freedom is in very real danger. Coming soon to courts in New Zealand.
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April 29, 2013 1:40pm
Longknives

It has never been about ‘equality’ or ‘rights’. It is simply a chance for a few angry, disaffected social outcasts to have a crack at the Church-

http://www.lifesitenews.com/archbishop-prays-while-topless-gay-activists-shout-curses-and-douse-him-wit.html

Look at the state of them. Christ I don’t think even Dime would touch them…
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April 29, 2013 1:43pm
KevinH

Kea has a point. In the small north Auckland community I reside in periodically, the busiest business in town is the WINZ office, which has a high ratio of young solo mother clients whom shortly after leaving school with no qualifications quickly become pregnant and spend the rest of their adulthood as solo mothers on a benefit. I’m sure this is not unique to my small town but is representative of most small towns throughout New Zealand.
The Rebstock reviews have all been implemented more or less by Paula Bennett but these have had little impact upon the number of young girls still choosing motherhood and a life on the benefit as a career.
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April 29, 2013 2:13pm
Kea

“This lying bitch should be in Guantanamo”

Probably. But the US was sympathetic to the Chechen Muslims, describing them as rebels and freedom fighters, as they fought for a separate Muslim State.

Now moron in chief is doing the same thing with the radical extremists over running Syria.
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April 29, 2013 2:19pm
liarbors a joke

Can someone shed some light on what Parekura Horomia has actually done during his time in Parliament? A fair question don’t you think ?
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April 29, 2013 2:49pm
Manolo

He’s ingested copious quantities of food at Bellamy’s. Nothing else.
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April 29, 2013 3:03pm
Ross12

Now this proves to me the Greens are deluded and financially illiterate ( referring to funding options for Auckland transport)

“But Greens transport spokeswoman Julie Anne Genter says the government has adequate funds to implement “smart transport projects” across the city without New Zealanders forking out extra in taxes.

“We can get the transport projects that we need without imposing more taxes,” she said.

“There is plenty of money in the government’s budget for smart transport projects like the Auckland City Rail Link, and safe walking and cycling, without new taxes.”
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April 29, 2013 3:11pm
stigie

Manolo says….

He’s ingested copious quantities of food at Bellamy’s. Nothing else.

And seen down at the local Burger King along with big Gerry !!
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April 29, 2013 4:27pm
RightNow

NZ Herald headline: Working women still trapped under glass ceiling

Working men would have been out pronto and down the pub.
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April 29, 2013 5:28pm
anticorruptionnz

Why is it that a kindy teacher is charged with fraud for having a false qualification when a lawyer can write legislation for his own business plan, advise on it as independent adviser to the select committee, then set it up as competition to the RNZSPC And using a false identity and telling porkies to the minister. he then runs this from council premises for private pecuniary gain… and no one bats an eye lid

We also have a business man who invents a fictional liquidator and director, give false addresses for himself. He is charged with copious counts of fraud but flees the country. Years later his lawyers attempt to buy him the right to return .. he returns and the charges are dropped .

Is it because she is a woman that she was charged or is it that she was not of sufficiently high status or well enough connected to be worthy of protection.?

Should not the law apply equally to all ? http://www.anticorruption.co.nz/2013/04/28/disparity-in-crime-who-you-know-matters/
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April 29, 2013 6:48pm
Pauleastbay

Pauleastbay – do you really need to have tact and decency explained to you?

After recent events I thought those qualities were meant to be among the things that made the right better than the alternative. You are not doing much to support that hypothesis.

From the Horimea thread.

RRM

Its not about tack or decency. He’s a public figure, he’s died which is terrible for his family but for the general public its another dead politician. If you knew him I presume you wouldn’t be so tacky as to start posting on public message boards but rather contact the family with a personal condolence.

He may have been a lovely man and all that and nobody said a bad thing about him but let’s be honest he never did anything so he was bloody hard to criticise. This has nothing to do with labour either I’d feel the same who ever it was.

Public out pouring of grief for people unknown is something I don’t understand.

We can’t give Horimea any flack because he’s dead but we can put the shit into Colin Craig because he’s alive. Strange
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April 29, 2013 7:27pm
mikenmild

This from Sigmund Freud:
“We assume a special attitude towards the dead, something almost like admiration for one who has accomplished a very difficult feat. We suspend criticism of him, overlooking whatever wrongs he may have done, and issue the command, de mortuis nil nisi bene [of the dead nothing unless good]: we act as if we were justified in singing his praises at the funeral oration, and inscribe only what is to his advantage on the tombstone. This consideration for the dead, which he really no longer needs, is more important to us than the truth and to most of us, certainly, it is more important than consideration for the living.”
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April 29, 2013 7:37pm
nasska

….”Public out pouring of grief for people unknown is something I don’t understand.”…..

It has been a custom for a fair while Paul & maybe not a terrible one & probably has more to do with paying respect to the family left behind. A town in our district has a practise where when a funeral procession passes, shop doors close….even people new to the village honour the custom.

In the case of Mr Horomia I’ll remain silent until at least after the funeral. Colin Craig although is alive, if a walking political corpse & he’s still twitching a bit….I’m more than happy to put the boot in there.
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April 29, 2013 7:41pm
Pauleastbay

Nasska
………….A town in our district has a practise where when a funeral procession passes, shop doors close….even people new to the village honour the custom.

I can dig that- its about appearing to care and as we have lived in small communities you can appear to be wringing the hands flat out while secretly pissing on the grave but for anonymous people on a blog to get all R.I.Peey is….strange
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April 29, 2013 7:48pm
nasska

Point taken Paul. The residents of the town I was referring to are completely normal in every other respect…..as soon as the procession is passed the gossip & innuendo will start with vigour.

I guess although that in some ways the commenters on a blog are going to follow the same protocols & habits as they do in their physical lives. You’re right really…..there’s no damn reason for it, it’s just what we do.
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April 29, 2013 7:58pm
nasska

The stockbroker was nervous about being in prison because his cellmate looked like a real thug.

“Don’t worry,” the gruff looking fellow said, “I’m in here for a white collar crime too.”

“Well, that’s a relief,” sighed the stockbroker. “I was sent to prison for fraud and insider trading.”

“Oh nothing fancy like that for me,” grinned the convict. “I just murdered a couple of priests.”
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April 29, 2013 8:10pm
Steve (North Shore)

The good/bad of Parekura Horomia should be left for another day
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April 29, 2013 8:17pm
Pauleastbay

Horomia should be left for another day

Steve

It’ll never happen, simply because when did anyone honestly last think about the public person that was Parekura Horomia.

Unfortunately we are stuck with approximately 110 MPs who are in the same boat.
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April 29, 2013 8:23pm
Kacang

iMP @ 12.11
Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Topless is not naked.
Femen are not necessarily lesbians, just as feminists are not necessarily “dykes”
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April 30, 2013 3:58am
Left Right and Centre

We’re all meeting the same fate as Parekura- fat as fuck or otherwise. Hey, I hope he at least enjoyed eating whatever he felt like. Sounds good to me.

Those healthy perfect bastards will look really awesome lying in a coffin when it’s finally their turn….
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April 30, 2013 6:25am
Manolo

Hardworking Messiah: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/28/REPORT-Obama-Spent-Twice-As-Much-Time-On-Vacation-Golf-As-On-Economy
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April 30, 2013 6:37am
Manolo

NZ Herald headline: Working women still trapped under glass ceiling

Did the by-line say P.G.? 😀
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April 30, 2013 6:38am

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