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April 1, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 1 April 2013

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Fletch

KevinH, also not forgetting Jerusalem Mufti Haj Amin el-Husseini who was an inspiration to Hitler and helped Hitler destroy the Jews. That is the connection between Islam and the Nazis. He even has his own Nazi troopers who wore turbans, but also the swastika and the sword of Islam logo.

According to testimony by Nazi war criminals, the Mufti’s influence was critical to the German decision to annihilate the Jews of Europe. At the Nuremberg Trials in July 1946, Eichmann’s deputy Dieter Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal) testified: (here)

“The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan… He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chambers of Auschwitz.”
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April 1, 2013 7:01pm
bereal

Johnboy
Two very sage posts, one after the other.
Also

Watch for Joris to be appointed to suck on a huge tit sometime soon.
Maybe 2 i c to Michael Cullen.
Lifetime suckarses together. Makes sense.

Thats just the way things go.
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April 1, 2013 7:04pm
SPC

The organised effort to enact the Final Solution under cover of war in the East was at Wannsee, Berlin the following month January 1942.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference
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April 1, 2013 7:06pm
Johnboy

Loosen up Kea. Didn’t we beat somebody at some sort of sport or something today?

Get your priorities as a New Zealander in the correct order for fucks sake! 🙂
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April 1, 2013 7:07pm
bhudson

An interesting interview with Irving…

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/david-irving-hitler-appointed-me-his-biographer-1366464.html

Notice how he branches off on tangents when presented with negative facts on Hitler – he just can’t bare to acknowledge the true evil of his idol.

I find that refusal to acknowledge reality prevalent among conspiracy theorists when pressed with facts that inconveniently undermine the conspiracies they cling to.
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April 1, 2013 7:08pm
Johnboy

“I never really felt he believed a lot of it. I still don’t really. He enjoys being provocative. He’s an extraordinary attention seeker, always has been.” ”

Do you think he may be a distant relly of Winston bhudson? 🙂
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April 1, 2013 7:20pm
SPC

Fletch, more likely Hitler was an inspiration to the Mufti and this was why the Mufti offered his support. Is there any evidence the Mufti initiated anything?
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April 1, 2013 7:26pm
Jack5

The Campbell Live team on TV3 has been harassing Susan Devoy over her appointment as Race Relations Commissioner. Treating her like some shonky car dealer.

TV3 didn’t pick on her Marxist predcessor, a former Auckland far-left political activist, when he was appointed. Why aren’t we surprised?

The Campbell team is very left wing. It’s hard to understand TV3’s owners trying to make a buck from standing on the Left, where all the State media are. If only they learned from the example of Fox News!
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April 1, 2013 7:30pm
Johnboy

I’ve always said that the prick Campbell’s eyes are far too close together. My mummy warned me about folks like him. 🙂
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April 1, 2013 7:32pm
bhudson

@Johnboy,

Even Winnie-the-Peters is too grounded in reality to be a relly of Irving
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April 1, 2013 7:37pm
Steve (North Shore)

I always understood the April Fool joke ended at mid day, lest you become the fool.
Am I wrong?
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April 1, 2013 7:38pm
Viking2

Well productivity in NZ today was failrly low.
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April 1, 2013 7:41pm
Johnboy

Quite right Steve(NS).

I’m getting really pissed with all these folks trying to usurp my position. 🙂
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April 1, 2013 7:42pm
nasska

Judith

To be worth anything freedom must be unconditional. I accept that it will be abused by some but that is a price we must pay. A few points:

1) Free speech is effectively self policing over a medium/long term. Those who abuse it end up like the boy who cried wolf….no one listens to them & their normal reaction is to increase the volume which is a lousy strategy if they want to be taken seriously. To once again instance this blog…..few who use constant abuse & bullshit get their point across….they either adapt to peer pressure, depart or become sad objects of ridicule.

2) Governments, especially socialist Governments, are the enemy of free speech. When the only tool you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail & thus our elected representatives are ever amenable to legislating away our freedoms to solve problems that don’t really need solutions.

Being offended now & again is what we put up with in exchange for a freedom that once surrendered can never be recovered.
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April 1, 2013 7:57pm
Johnboy

Thank God you’re back nasska. Do you have a good joke to cheer us up on this very serious day? 🙂
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April 1, 2013 8:01pm
nasska

Mick was digging a hole when Pat approached.

“What are you doing?” he asked.

“I’m digging a hole to bury my dog.”

“Well,” he persisted. “What are the other three holes for?”

Mick replied, “They were going to be to bury my dog in, but they weren’t big enough.”
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April 1, 2013 8:04pm
Johnboy

That’ll do! 🙂
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April 1, 2013 8:07pm
nasska

Two young brothers, aged 5 and 6, are listening through the keyhole as their older sister is getting it on with her new boyfriend.

They hear her say, “Oh, Jim, you’re going where no man has gone before!”

The six-year-old says to his brother, “he must be giving it to her up the arse then!”
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April 1, 2013 8:11pm
Eisenhower

The DPRK threw its toys out when a B52 flew over the peninsula, announcing an end to the armistice and severing the phone line at Panmunjon. Then it put its rocket forces on the highest alert after the B2 flights saying it was time to settle accounts with the US and declaring war could be hours away. Now F22’s have been sent to take part in Foal Eagle. What has Kim got next? “My pudgy finger is on the button”?…”Our glorious troops have had their last meal and are marching to Seoul”?…”I’m going to do something very very soon, I promise”?
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April 1, 2013 8:13pm
Nostalgia-NZ

The great leader will soon announce a victory and warn the south and its allies not to do it again.
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April 1, 2013 8:18pm
Viking2

Eight Months Pregnant!

Since the wife is eight months into her pregnancy, the husband has to sleep on the floor to avoid any regrettable mistake, which might happen pretty easily, for he has been desperate for quite a while now.

Just before lying down on the bed, she glances at him and sees the poor guy curls up on the floor, eyes stare widely into the empty air, filled with hopeless desire.

Feeling sorry for her husband, she opens the top drawer of the cabinet, takes out a fifty dollar bill, and gives it to him “Here, take this and go to the woman next door, she will let you sleep with her tonight and remember that this happens only once. Ok? Don’t think about it again.”

The husband rolls his eyes in disbelief, but afraid that she may change her mind, he grabs the money and leaves quickly. A few minutes later, he returns, hands the bill back to the wife and says with much disappointment: “She said this is not enough, she wants ninety.”

The wife’s face slowly turns red with anger: “Damn that b!tch…when she was pregnant and her husband came over here…I only charged him fifty…”
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April 1, 2013 8:20pm
David Garrett

Kevin H: Why on earth would Goebbels be concerned, and “protecting his Fuhrer from prosecution” in December 1941 FFS? Prosecution by who?

At that stage everything was going swimmingly, and the boys looked to be on track for the 1000 year innings they expected for the Third Reich. Please explain.
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April 1, 2013 8:21pm
Harriet

John Boy#

Q: What’s the only word that starts with “N” and ends with “R” that a Neo Nazi wouldn’t want to call a Maori?

A: Neighbour. 😎
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April 1, 2013 8:28pm
Tauhei Notts

Ugly Truth at 10.47.
I visit Kiwiblog to become better informed, and to be entertained. Just as Nasska’s jokes are priceless, your comments are spot on.
Your post this morning did more than any other post on this blog has ever done to educate me.
I think the 22 minute video might be way beyond the attention span of many contributors to this blog.
Ugly Truth; thank you for being so kind as to bring that sort of inarguable evidence to my attention.
I hope you have a wonderful evening. You deserve that.
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April 1, 2013 8:35pm
Kea

Jailhouse Rock: Venezuelan prisoners open nightclub in prison with strippers, music show

http://rt.com/news/venezuela-nightclub-prison-jail-123/

In the same prison, there is a cockfighting arena and a billiard room, according to New York Times. The inmates reportedly openly take marijuana and drink alcohol, while some of them stroll the territory of the facility with machine guns.
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April 1, 2013 8:59pm
nasska

Obviously a facility with an emphasis on rehabilitation & preparing inmates for reintegration into society Kea. 🙂
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April 1, 2013 9:08pm
Kea

nasska, that is an astute observation, as the article goes on to state Venezuela has one of the highest crime rates in the world. If they released a bunch of choir boys back into society they would never fit in !

We should perhaps consider this in some areas of the North Island. Down in Christchurch we could teach them important life skills such as; Rugby watching, piss drinking, random beatings and Asian hating. 🙂
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April 1, 2013 9:18pm
nasska

The ferals in Christchurch seem to have most of those cultural idiosyncrasies fairly well covered Kea. Mind you as they mature they seem to settle down a bit even if their sexual preferences seem a little strange to us. For instance cast your eyes over this rather touching photo of a Christchurch couple enjoying a romantic weekend at an alpine retreat.

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1jwkz249sof0h6g/Goats.jpg
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April 1, 2013 9:33pm
SPC

Tauhei Notts, the 10.47 am video, simply recounts the number 6M Jews in USA newspaper reports, from 1915 to 1938.

The original number referred to those living in Tsarist Russia (it then included Poland). Ukraine and Byelorussia were the front lines in that war and many of the Jews lived there and their lives were at risk. Jewish life was later at risk during the Civil War in Russia after the 1917 Revolution. Then at risk in the Soviet era famines.

Then other Jews, those in Germany became at risk while others were still facing famine in Russia. That number was also around 6M (German and Russian), but not including those in Poland.

That the number of Jews at risk then was similar to the loss of life in the WW2 “holocaust” demonstrates what? Those who died included those from France, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Hungary, Italy, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, etc as well as Poland and Russia (Germans killed Jews in Russia during Barbarossa).
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April 1, 2013 9:37pm
David Garrett

Kevin H must be away doing some research…I’ll come back in the morning and see what he has come up with…(for those who have just joined us, the question is “Why would Goebbels be worried about Hitler being prosecuted for authorizing the Final Solution in 1941, when things were going splendidly for the National Socialists…”)

Perhaps he was clairvoyant, which of course begs the question: why not kill the kids then and get it over with? He and Magda could have used the money saved for a high old time every night…
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April 1, 2013 9:47pm
David Garrett

SPC: As a superficial argument that’s not bad…but you are overlooking – let’s be charitable and call it that – the fact that from the original 1915 story on, those 6 million were being slaughtered or starving in the tens of thousands…Now even allowing for fairly vigorous reproduction and replacement of the lost, it does seem somewhat remarkable that the number in desparate peril remained a constant 6 million, right until 1945, when that magic number had all been exterminated…

“somewhat remarkable”…I put it no stronger than that…

Or perhaps the newspapers were all elaborate forgeries? If so, someone has gone to a great deal of trouble, and doesn’t even put his name to it to take the credit…
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April 1, 2013 9:59pm
Kea

SPC, I wonder why the sympathy (for some) only extends to the Jews who died and not the other 20 million Russian people ?

I would suggest that of the entire death toll of the war (Around 70 million) most were in fact Christian. Yet we only see one religion separated out from that massive toll. Separating out the Jewish part of the population, and not considering them “one of us” was exactly what the Nazis sought to do. Ironic.

I am not terribly interested in things to do with Nazis, but because I read a lot people give me books on the subject. I formed the view that Hitlers racists attitudes probably cost him the war. He overlooked many potential allies as a result of his divisive attitude to non Germans. When invading some areas of Russia the people were apparently pleased to see the Nazis as they thought (wrongly) they would be better than the current rulers.

The Eastern Europeans were often treated no better than the Jews and maybe worse at times. These people could have been his allies, though many were used to run concentration camps and to persecute Jews. In fact even the SS was taken back by the brutality (towards Jews) of many Eastern Europeans. They quickly decided to use this mean streak and many were guards in the concentration camps. You will note the worst camps were in Eastern Europe and not Germany.
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April 1, 2013 10:02pm
SPC

DG, Hitler’s fixation was the failure of Germany to continue to fight out WW1, he felt they had been betrayed at home. I doubt he was under any illusion that the war was won in 1941. And I doubt that he cared if Germany won the war in the end, so long as they fought to the end. He was a psychopath.

It’s obvious that Hitler gave orders in person, and people just cited this for their authority to act. No one thought anyone would dare fake this, so believed it. Other people took to destroying evidence of their involvement.

This earlier post covers the evidence

Eisenhower (116) Says:
April 1st, 2013 at 11:36 am

Just in case you had any doubts about Irving and his contention Hitler knew nothing of the Holocaust…
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April 1, 2013 10:04pm
David Garrett

Kea: You make an excellent point, and one some Jewish historians have also highlighted. If you ever come across “Hitler’s Mistakes” by Ronald Lewin, grab it. Lewin spends a chapter on the major military errors (and even those are still argued over) but concludes that his biggest mistake of all was not making use of the talent and expertise of German Jewry….When you think about how far advanced the Hun was in the late 1930’s in jet aircraft, rocketry, and atomic research, it’s a pretty good argument…He also argues that Adolf would have done much better if he had put German women to work as the allies all did with their women, rather than have them at home getting pregnant with blond Aryans and breastfeeding…
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April 1, 2013 10:10pm
Kea

“The Holocaust in Ukraine took place during the Occupation of Ukraine by Nazi Germany.[1] Between 1941 and 1945, approximately 3,000,000 Ukrainian and other non-Jewish victims were killed as part of Nazi extermination policies, along with between 850,000 – 900,000 Jews who lived in the territory of modern ”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Ukraine

The genocidal policies of the Nazis resulted in the deaths of about as many Polish Gentiles as Polish Jews, thus making them co-victims in a Forgotten Holocaust. This Holocaust has been largely ignored because historians who have written on the subject of the Holocaust have chosen to interpret the tragedy in exclusivistic terms–namely, as the most tragic period in the history of the Jewish Diaspora.

The Nazis sought to annihilate all Jews and all enemies of the state. Every Jew was to be wiped out, but not necessarily every Russian, Serb, or Yugoslavian. That millions of non-Jews were also killed demonstrates the determination and magnitude of the Nazi extermination program to eliminate anyone who could even remotely be considered an enemy of the state. Current estimates based on documents from Nazi war records, and official government documents of various countries, place the death toll of people murdered by the Nazis during the Holocaust as conservatively over 15 million non-combatant people.(5) One official source estimates the number killed at 26 million.(6) However, “with the mass graves on the eastern front, exact figures will never be known”.(7)

http://www.ukemonde.com/holocaust/victims.html
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April 1, 2013 10:10pm
SPC

Kea, the policy of lebensraum was predicated on killing millions of Poles and Russians as well as the 6M Jews amongst them to the East. Sending Central and West European Jews into Eastern Europe was just to make them part of the killing field under the cover of war vs the Bolsheviks.

Kea the 1931 Ukraine famine was mentioned in the US newspaper reports in the 10.27 link, as a threat to Jewish life in the Ukraine.
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April 1, 2013 10:11pm
David Garrett

SPC: It’s too late at night to point out the numerous holes in that silly post…have you actually been paying attention all day? I fancy myself as knowing a fair bit about the Third Reich, and I have learned heaps today from this thread…mostly – interestingly enough – from the links to dissertations published by those rebutting holocaust deniers…but perhaps you know it all already and don’t need any further reading..
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April 1, 2013 10:15pm
Kea

but concludes that his biggest mistake of all was not making use of the talent and expertise of German Jewry

Yes I have long said that. They were not Jews, they were Germans !

Hitler reckoned they had their hands on the purse strings, so he should have used that and got them on board. Hitler was not elected on a platform of killing Jews. He was elected for reasons we hear repeated by the Maori party; closing the gaps, protecting the land and culture, allowing the average working stiff to take part in the running of the country, removing the hegemony of the old boy network, national pride and so on… All in the best Socialist tradition. It must be remembered that German people were suffering badly at this time and were desperate for change.

If Hitler had not wasted time and resource on his insane hobby horse of racial purity, Germany’s people would have been no less “pure” and a dam sight better off. We also may have been writing our thoughts in German !
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April 1, 2013 10:23pm
Reid

Hitler’s fixation was the failure of Germany to continue to fight out WW1, he felt they had been betrayed at home.

He capitalised on a widespread sentiment SPC. Apparently a huge number of Germans felt the Jews had betrayed Germany because many of the powerful German Jews had used the Jewish lobby in the US to pressure Wilson to declare war, which he did. I don’t know why millions of Germans actually thought that, all I know is they did. But that’s why his message of hate got so much traction.
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April 1, 2013 10:24pm
SPC

DG, well the 1931 figure for the Ukraine famine should have used the lower figure for Russia sans Poland then independent. That’s media reports for you.

The original figure of 6M was for Jews in Russia (then including Ukraine and Poland) in 1914. That would have to go down less Poland.

That 6M may have died in the holocaust is a coincidence. The coincidence does not invalidate the figure now commonly used.

More than 6M were at risk in the end (rest of occupied Europe, Germany, Poland, Ukraine, Byelorussia and Russia), 6M was the death toll.
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April 1, 2013 10:32pm
Kea

Kea the 1931 Ukraine famine was mentioned in the US newspaper reports in the 10.27 link, as a threat to Jewish life in the Ukraine.

SPC, you have responded on the belief that I linked to Stalin’s holocaust in the Ukraine. In fact if you read it again, it was the NAZI holocaust, not Stalin’s. (The Holocaust in Ukraine took place during the Occupation of Ukraine by Nazi Germany)

Regardless, was it a “threat to life” for the millions of non Jewish people who died ? (72% of the dead were not Jewish)
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April 1, 2013 10:35pm
Kea

SPC, you were thinking of the Holodomor genocide in the Ukraine. Estimates of around 7 to 10 million dead. But most were not Jews, so you can research it yourself without fear of attack or imprisonment.

This will get you started: http://faminegenocide.com/resources/unknown.html
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April 1, 2013 10:43pm
UglyTruth

The original figure of 6M was for Jews in Russia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dda-0Q_XUhk

That 6M may have died in the holocaust is a coincidence.
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April 1, 2013 11:09pm
SPC

Ugly Truth, the makers of the video think the holocaust was a conspiracy by Zionists.

Their evidence is that there were 6M Jews in Tsarist Russia on pre WW1. and US media used this as a number for Jews in Eastern Europe in news reports between then and WW2.

Thus the number 6M Jews being the number said to have died in the WW period must somehow not be a coincidence but of some conspiracy.

You’ve become an advocate for one of the dumber conspiracy theory groups on the planet.
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April 1, 2013 11:16pm
UglyTruth

You’ve become an advocate for one of the dumber conspiracy theory groups on the planet.

What is dumb about generating a reason for Jewish people to leave Europe in order that they populate your new state?
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April 1, 2013 11:33pm
SPC

The people making the video did so to promote doubt that 6M died in the WW2 holocaust. They are not Jewish Zionists. But I think you already know that.
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April 1, 2013 11:53pm
UglyTruth

So what is the problem with their theory then?
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April 2, 2013 12:03am
SPC

Which theory,

1. That a coincidence that the number 6M applied to the number of Jews in Tsarist Russia in 1914 and the number of Jews in wider Europe who died during WW2 meant the latter number is somehow less credible?

2. That threats to Jewish life in Europe: during WW1, the post Soviet Revolution Civil War in Russia, the Ukraine famine of 1931 and the combined threat posed by both the Nazis and the commies in 1938 was somehow manufactured by Zionists to promote migration to Palestine?

Both are stupid.
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April 2, 2013 12:44am
Manolo

April’s Fools Messiah-style: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-proclaims-april-month-teach-young-people-how-budget-responsibly
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April 2, 2013 7:39am
UglyTruth

SPC,

1. Straw man. You are ignoring the video that I posted which shows that your “coincidence” is far more pervasive that you admit.

2. The timing of WW1 and the Russian Revolution coincided with the establishment of the Zionist state via the Balfour Declaration. Hitler’s judenhass was reactionary, up to the time that the Zionist’s “World Jewish Congress” declared war on Germany, Hitler was supporting the Zionist cause.

“we must, above all, make it an international political issue.” ~ Theodore Herzl
“Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies.” ~ Theodore Herzl
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April 2, 2013 8:08am

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