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April 17, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 17 April 2013

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General Debate

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Kea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3WJX1cIuY4
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April 17, 2013 8:00pm
nasska

Two mates Bob and Mike were two of the greatest rugby fans in NZ. They went to 60 games a year and even agreed that whoever died first would try to come back and tell the other if there was rugby in heaven.

One winters night, Bob passed away in his sleep after watching the Auckland Blues victory earlier in the evening. He died happy. A few nights later, his mate Mike awoke to the sound of Bob’s voice from beyond. “Bob is that you?” Mike asked. “Of course it me,” Bob replied.

“This is unbelievable!” Mike exclaimed. “So tell me, is there rugby in heaven?”

“Well I have some good news and some bad news for you. Which do you want to hear first?”

Mike excitedly replies, “Tell me the good news first.”

“Well, the good news is that yes there is rugby in heaven, Mike.”

“Oh, that is wonderful! So what could possibly be the bad news?”

“You’re wearing the No 10 jersey tomorrow night.”
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April 17, 2013 8:01pm
F E Smith

Amon Amarth’s lead singer is phenomenal. Every death metal band needs a singer who looks (and sounds) like that!
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April 17, 2013 8:05pm
Kea

The number of times I have had a client try that one on, only then to offer $5 a week. What amazes me is how many judges accept it.

It is hilarious when the Judge is sitting there with a report telling him your client owes $15,000 in fines and reparation, with no payment for three years.

I guess the key word is “can” not “will” pay.
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April 17, 2013 8:07pm
Kea

Amon Amarth’s lead singer is phenomenal. Every death metal band needs a singer who looks (and sounds) like that!

Did you see Viking2 in there beating up on those Muslims scholars ?

They probably only came to teach them to read and heal the sick 🙂
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April 17, 2013 8:11pm
Viking2

when you guys ran around in rotting animal skins getting drunk on stolen wine.

Yep we definitely had more fun and remained civilized with sufficient forethought to boot the Left footers out of the territory.
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April 17, 2013 8:13pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z33lckl703x9ja4/goat-sexsm.JPG
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April 17, 2013 8:17pm
ex-golfer

I have one simple question:
How on earth can it be that Nikki Kaye is single?
Fantastic speech in Parliament tonight – and she looks hot!
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April 17, 2013 8:20pm
Kea

Viking2, sadly they are not booting them out now days and their once proud societies are diminishing.

My hummus loving ancestors need to go back home and put the women in their place, in between praying 5 times a day.

Insha’Allah
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April 17, 2013 8:21pm
F E Smith

It is hilarious when the Judge is sitting there with a report telling him your client owes $15,000 in fines and reparation, with no payment for three years.

That is what Community Work was invented for!!!

I guess the key word is “can” not “will” pay.

It is all a matter of priorities. There is always plenty of money for drink, cigs and the lotto…
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April 17, 2013 8:24pm
Pauleastbay

After I have avoided being trampled to death by all the homo’s trying to convert me tomorrow and if the world doesn’t end, I am going to my MP and asking him to put a private members bill forward to make it compulsory that everyone get married. I have followed the debate on here for months and have decided that if marriage is so fantastic it should be compulsory, like bike helmets.

The only thing that will stop me doing this my MP is David Shearer and he would fuck it up.
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April 17, 2013 8:28pm
F E Smith

This’ll upset a few, just through from the NZLS:

New Zealand Chief Justice Dame Sian Elias has been invited to sit on the Privy Council appeal hearing in Mark Lundy v R.

A briefing note from the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council says as a member of the Privy Council, Dame Sian was invited to sit on the appeal.

“It is the practice of the Judicial Committee occasionally to invite judges from the jurisdiction from where the appeal arises to sit if they are members of the Privy Council,” the briefing says.

The appeal hearing will being at 11am English Time on Monday 17 June 2013 and is scheduled to last for three days.

The Board hearing the appeal will be Lord Hope (Deputy President of the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, who will chair the Board), Lord Kerr, Lord Reed, Lord Hughes and Chief Justice Dame Sian Elias.

If the PC finds that there was a miscarriage of justice then the Court of Appeal will have some real questions to answer.

Does anyone know if the Watson case is going to the PC?
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April 17, 2013 8:28pm
Kea

FES, so why not ask for CW in the first place ?

It is funniest of all when it is a fine only offense and the Judge has to give your client a fine, to add to the zillion dollars he already is not paying.

Yeah they will stink of booze, dope, cigs, while texting their mates on the latest phone, then say they can pay $10 pw from the benny. It is really just a money go round and a tax on being a drop kick.
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April 17, 2013 8:31pm
F E Smith

Kea,

CW is a mess. It is extremely badly run, for a start, plus many of the clientele aren’t the most reliable sort so tend to get breached in short order.

But, probably more accurately, most of that $15,000 in fines will have been run up through motor vehicle fines that don’t ever go to Court until long after the punter stops paying. And even that can appear quite arbitrary in the way it is administered. I have seen situations more than once where a client has run up $1600 or $2000 in fines in the course of one night. It isn’t difficult if you don’t put your mind to it! Once the (inevitably teenage) client is into double figures they tend to take a bit of a ‘head in the sand’ approach about it.

Which is how I have had clients who have never been in trouble with the law in their life (except for WOF and registration issues, obviously) standing in the dock being threatened with being sent to prison.
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April 17, 2013 8:37pm
Kea

FES, people can rack up tens of thousands of dollars in a year, just parking with no rego or warrant. They get CW, then go to jail for breaching it. It undermines the credibility of Court imposed fines as a punitive measure.

The funny thing is that the Police can write you a $10,000 dollar ticket (diesel miles) on the side of the road. But a Judge would consider a $1,000 fine very high and close to considering a custodial sentence.
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April 17, 2013 9:01pm
Jack5

Kea posted at 7.59:

…The Indians, Chinese, Arabs, were developing science and higher thinking, when you guys ran around in rotting animal skins getting drunk on stolen wine…

The Indians, and especially the Chinese, yes.

But the Arabs? Even if you use a broad definition to the word “Arab” in ancient civilisations, some of them, such as the precursors to the Kurds, and the Persians, were Indoeuropean. The Arabs and Middle East did have a good intellectual tradition from late Roman times until the early centuries after the barbarians from Saudi Arabia swept across North Africa and the Middle East. But intellecutally they stagnated from about a thousand years ago.

No other civilisation, not even the Chinese, has had near the impact on the world as Western civilisation, whose intellectual tradition began with the Greeks, was maintained by the Romans, and flowered when the Muslims crushed Constaninople, sending refugee scholars through Western Europe to light the intellectual torch.

Middle Eastern culture has long been weak culturally. Look at how few great scientific breakthroughs come from it, and how the brightest of Middle Eastern people go to the West to realise their talent. The Middle Eastern countries won’t move forward and catch up until they scrap their puritanical religion.
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April 17, 2013 9:01pm
Nostalgia-NZ

F E Smith I think it is excellent that Ellis will sit on the PC for the Lundy appeal, so continuing a long tradition for NZ Judges to do so. NZ should continue its connection with the PC beyond the cases before the Supreme Court was formed. The idea that it was either the ‘new’ Supreme Court or the Privy Council is primitive.
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April 17, 2013 9:03pm
Kea

Jack5, yes you are pretty much right. Everyone has had their days of glory and right now it is the European cultures. The Middle Eastern people are retreating back into the dark ages, but the Asians are looking forward.
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April 17, 2013 9:04pm
Pete George

Some very good speeches on the marriage bill, some more ordinary ones, but the notable exception was Winston Peters. Tau Henare, following Peters, called it “the biggest shyster speech I’ve ever heard”.

Winston Peters shystes on marriage bill.
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April 17, 2013 9:05pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Pete George, and you think that Tau Henare wasn’t going to call it the ‘biggest shyster’ speech whatever Peters said?
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April 17, 2013 9:09pm
Pauleastbay

Currently watching the beginning of the funeral of Margaret Thatcher. A true politician, she dealt with thugs an bullies the way they should be dealt with – swiftly and with disdain.

Which is rather different from previous NZ female politicians who have been the thugs and bullies.
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April 17, 2013 9:10pm
Pete George

Nostalgia-NZ – I doubt it, but Peters shat in the middle of the marriage bill, I don’t know how they choose who speaks but Henare was a great followup and gave Peters what he deserved. I doubt there will be many proud NZ First supporters tonight.
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April 17, 2013 9:22pm
F E Smith

The funny thing is that the Police can write you a $10,000 dollar ticket (diesel miles) on the side of the road. But a Judge would consider a $1,000 fine very high and close to considering a custodial sentence.

That is a good point. Wee tip: it can be cheaper not to pay and then cop the summons. The fine can often be smaller than the infringement offence would have been. It is a traffic conviction, however.

Nostalgia, I agree with you re Elias sitting on the PC. It used to be quite common for our higher judges, gave them time in London with some truly world class minds. A long way from the narrowness of our own CA.
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April 17, 2013 9:33pm
Kea

Wee tip: it can be cheaper not to pay and then cop the summons. The fine can often be smaller than the infringement offence would have been. It is a traffic conviction, however.

Or you get $138 Court costs and a offender levy of $50 on top of it !
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April 17, 2013 9:48pm
Pauleastbay

Its been fun. The world will now end I suppose, homo’s can marry. The first ripping of societal fabric can be heard as I type……………………………………………………………………………I feel like the last page of Nevile Shute’s ” On the Beach”- looking out knowing its all over. Alone, forlorn, separated from my family due to work commitments- why did I insist on this trip knowing this would be the result? oh well.
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April 17, 2013 9:52pm
Pauleastbay

Wee tip: it can be cheaper not to pay and then cop the summons. The fine can often be smaller than the infringement offence would have been. It is a traffic conviction, however.

And FES

you run the risk of loosing your licence. That wee paragraph in the Summary Proceedings Act????? where any offence involves a motor vehicle a Judge can apply a period of disqualification if the prosecution apply for it in the Summary of Facts.
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April 17, 2013 9:56pm
Kea

I followed PG’s link. I recommend that people listen for themselves and decide if Peters “shat in the middle of the bill”.

I suspect that it will be PG’s credibility that suffers, not Peters.
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April 17, 2013 10:01pm
Shunda barunda

Nostalgia-NZ – I doubt it, but Peters shat in the middle of the marriage bill, I don’t know how they choose who speaks but Henare was a great followup and gave Peters what he deserved. I doubt there will be many proud NZ First supporters tonight.

Ya just couldn’t quite hear past those blinkers could you Pete.

If you think what Peters was getting at was effectively shitting in the middle of parliament, then I feel very concerned for your understanding of democracy.

I guess all the drivel about ‘hurt feelings’ had you too cloudy eyed?

Good grief our democracy is in trouble.
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April 17, 2013 10:08pm
Kea

Pauleastbay, I saw a Judge give someone six months loss of licence for grabbing a letter box and throwing it over a cliff ! He was a passenger in a car when he grabbed the letter box.
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April 17, 2013 10:09pm
F E Smith

you run the risk of loosing your licence.

Fair point, although I’ve not seen it used for an RUC offence.
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April 17, 2013 10:50pm
calendar girl

Kea and Shunda – I too listened to the full 9:53 minutes of PG’s link to Peters’ speech, and I agree with you both. It was an outstanding speech by Peters, and by no means did it besmirch Parliament, let alone foul the floor of Parliament (figuratively speaking!) as PG would have you believe. Peters concentrated on two critical points:
– that the private member’s bill was lodged surreptitiously, even to the surprise of the Labour Leader; and
– that a Parliamentary approval of the Bill would over-ride apparent opposition from the voting public; hence a referendum was required.

Peters has not attracted many admirers for many of his antics over his years in our Parliament. Personally I despise many of the positions that he takes, and some of his dealings with powerful entities. But tonight he championed democracy above all else, and I respond to the principle of democracy above most other aspirations. Sadly, PG’s reaction to Peters’ speech belies any claim on his part to being even remotely interested in the will of the people. He’s no democrat is our Pete.

Here is Pete’s link again for your convenience: http://yournz.org/2013/04/17/winston-peters-shystes-on-marriage-bill/. (You then have to click on another link in Pete’s little haven.) I recommend that you listen to Peters’ speech and come to your own conclusion.
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April 17, 2013 10:51pm
Viking2

The answer is sometimes, and at considerable expense, such as the unnecessary creation of the capital-consuming Kiwibank to appease Jim Anderton or the formation of a meaningless Families Department to make Peter Dunne’s pretend party seem real.

A strong government would have resisted these demands, after all Dunne, an excellent electorate MP and sound minister, ain’t going anywhere. He’s the town bike of politics, available to anyone for the price of a ministerial limousine then up goes his skirt, down drop his pants and he’s all yours. Shades of Tim Shadbolt who was upfront about his motives with his ditty, “I’ll go anywhere, so long as I’m the mayor”.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-government/news/article.cfm?c_id=144&objectid=10877745
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April 18, 2013 7:15am
graham

I think we’re very lucky to have the benefit of Pete’s wisdom, and that Pete chooses to tell us who is acting properly and who is not. We are indeed fortunate that Pete points out who is (in his not-so-humble opinion) acting in a disreputable, unethical, or unscrupulous way.

After all, if Pete wasn’t doing this you’d have to rely on we Christians, and you wouldn’t want that now, would you? 🙂
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April 18, 2013 7:23am

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