General Debate 10 April 2013

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iMP

Very clever and very funny. http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/if-facebook-existed-during-wwii/
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April 10, 2013 8:03am
Urban Redneck

Reason #1 why adopted children must only be placed in a household headed by a husband and a wife:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/gay-conn-couple-accused-rape-face-trial-article-1.1310010

The case of a same-sex Connecticut couple accused of repeatedly raping and abusing two of their nine adopted boys is headed for trial.
Married couple George Harasz and Douglas Wirth of Glastonbury were supposed to be sentenced Friday in Hartford Superior Court under a plea deal, but instead withdrew from their agreement with prosecutors. The men had already pleaded no contest in January to one felony count each of risk of injury to a minor — a reduction from even more serious charges related to sexual assault.
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April 10, 2013 8:11am
Pete George

The Psychoactive Substances Bill was introduced to Parliament yesterday. It’s good to see this supported by all parties. It’s seen as an innovative and world leading approach to dealing with synthetic drugs.

There were very good speeches on the first reading by Peter Dunne, Iain Lees-Galloway, Dr Paul Hutchision and Kevin Hague.

Psychoactive Substances Bill – introduction to Parliament

Oddly the Herald coverage focussed on a minor aspect, whether kava would be covered by the Bill or not. The intent is that the Bill is only to be for synthetic drugs so kava and ‘ava would be excluded.

Kava concerns in Psychoactive Substances Bill
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April 10, 2013 8:17am
All_on_Red

“This is the age of complaining classes , whether they are lawyers, community activists, radical feminists, race hustlers, or other squeaky wheels looking for oil ,no society ever thrived because it had a large and growing class of parasites living off those who produce.
Thomas Sowell tells us what the grievance industry really wants – more, more and more. The entitlement nation is alive and well.
This is worth a watch. If only we had people like Sowell here.
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2013/04/09/thomas-sowell-on-class-warfare/
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April 10, 2013 8:21am
liarbors a joke

Lowlife scum…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8529780/Rest-home-creeper-preyed-on-elderly
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April 10, 2013 8:31am
Manolo

Labour stooges, maybe? http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8527325/Former-student-association-president-awarded-53-000
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April 10, 2013 8:40am
hj

Tamil asylum seeker get to Oz with sign “we want to go to NZ”
…….
British supermarkets rationing baby formula due to Chinese exporting back to China.
……
Maori more likely to be arested than Pakeha… that is something the greens have been saying (alleging discrimination/ racism); is hanging on sound bite stage at the moment.
RNZ
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April 10, 2013 8:41am
liarbors a joke

so whoever gave me a neg on the lowlife scum is disagreeing? You dont think he is a lowlife? Whats wrong with you?
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April 10, 2013 8:41am
Judith

All_on_Red (292) Says:
April 10th, 2013 at 8:21 am
———————————

Yeah its disgusting isn’t it. Wanting stuff like that.

If Kim Jong-un and the North Koreans (or similar) came here, we’d just allow him to have what he wanted wouldn’t we. We wouldn’t ask for a treaty to make sure our interests were protected, nope, we’d just say come on in. And when he wanted to take our homes in Paritai Drive, we’d be grateful for the small sections and scummy state homes he gave us in exchange. And despite the treaty saying we’d get the same treatment and we could keep the things we treasured – we’d be happy that the pension for us was only a percentage of what his people got – and that our kids had to go to different inferior schools – all that would be just fine. We’d put up with it even though those moves seriously diminished our property and our power.

And when 100 years later they wanted to use the ANZAC memorial (the Cenotaph) for bunging jumping activities for tourists – we’d just agree and say “how nice” – wouldn’t we? We wouldn’t want our culture protected – it would all be just fine!

We wouldn’t be as stupid as ‘dem dumb Marees would we’.
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April 10, 2013 8:42am
Keeping Stock

The weather couldn’t be more different this morning to what it was this day 45 years ago; thoughts and prayers are with everyone remembering loved ones lost on 10 April 1968

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/04/45-years-on.html
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April 10, 2013 8:42am
Left Right and Centre

Yesterday I was training to drive for a bus company. I’m on a bus with three people. Myself as a passenger, the assessor and a learner driver.

The learner driver hits two poles unknowingly inside the depot. The assessor asks me if we’d hit anything. It was more of a sideswipe halfway down the bus. On a six lane 80km/h speed limit road on a steep downhill grade, the learner driver could not keep the bus in one part of the lane. Swerved one way and the other, all over the place. I was watching this and feeling very uncomfortable. When the bus started driving out of the lane with the left wheels driving over the gutter, I called out that I felt unsafe and I wanted to get off.

We pulled in at a bus stop after leaving the six lane road. I was then told ‘If you get off this bus, you’re finished’. ‘You sit there and you shut the fuck up’.

I thought about it for ten-twenty seconds. Desperate to hang onto my chance to drive for a relatively good payrate, I stayed on. We drove to Lower Hutt. The learner driver was talked to outside the bus but within earshot. I could hear the phrase ‘I’m going to pull the plug on you’. And then I was told I was finished. And then asked to drive the bus from Lower Hutt back to Newlands, which I did despite my bitter disappointment at the whole chain of events.

At the depot in a meeting I was told that I had over-reacted by saying I felt unsafe and that I had said it to be malicious to the learner driver. I was told ‘its not what you said, it’s the way you said it, screaming like a banshee’. I was told that if it had been unsafe, the assessor would’ve taken hold of the steering wheel, and I should’ve done nothing and I assume known to trust his judgement.
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April 10, 2013 8:42am
hj

This is the age of vested interests and elites carving up our democracy. Evidence for: discussion on Aucklands housing squeeze is tottaly divorced from a cost benefit analysis of immigration.
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April 10, 2013 8:45am
liarbors a joke

…youre obviously an agitator LRC…
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April 10, 2013 8:45am
kowtow

LRC

A bit more detail would be useful.

Was the driver being assesed trained by the same co. doing the assessing?
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April 10, 2013 8:58am
David Garrett

Left Right and Centre: Was the trainee driver Phil Ure? Attempting to renew one of his licences after having a few too many cones?
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April 10, 2013 8:59am
Keeping Stock

@ David Garrett – I’ll bet he’s shaking in his boots this morning over news that legislation has passed requiring him to be drug-free in order to keep his DPB 😀
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April 10, 2013 9:01am
liarbors a joke

lol DG..oh how I miss the useless Ure..not..eh?
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April 10, 2013 9:01am
All_on_Red

“This is the age of vested interests and elites carving up our democracy”

You are referring to those within our public service and government obviously. Don’t believe me? Check out the people on the “Constitution” panel. I am also starting to think that the benefits of increasing our population through immigration are overstated.
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April 10, 2013 9:02am
Left Right and Centre

David Garrett 8:59 am No, it was an Indian woman who was absolutely hopeless, never had a hope in hell and I suspected as much from day one. At least if I’d been helping her, I wouldn’t have let her set herself up with a left turn at full lock to hit pole bollards. I would’ve instantly recognized what was happening and fixed the problem, unlike the assessor.. which I find unforgiveable. As she slowly drove into the poles, couldn’t he see what was going to happen? Surely someone in his position is meant to see that happening. There was plenty of time. And he directed her into the manoeuvre, she followed what he said to the letter and he didn’t ask her to change course. He set up a total beginner who needed more help than she was given.
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April 10, 2013 9:14am
Weihana

Pete George (17,043) Says:
April 10th, 2013 at 8:17 am

The Psychoactive Substances Bill was introduced to Parliament yesterday. It’s good to see this supported by all parties. It’s seen as an innovative and world leading approach to dealing with synthetic drugs.

It is an idiotic distraction with almost zero relevance to the real harm involved in the drug trade. It is not innovative, it is simply more prohibition. It is not world leading. If you want to see true world leaders then take note of those in Latin America who are pushing back against the failed US-led War on Drugs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/world/americas/uruguay-considers-legalizing-marijuana-to-stop-traffickers.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
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April 10, 2013 9:20am
Left Right and Centre

Keeping Stock 9:01 am If you’re referring to me I was required to undergo a drug screening test to drive for the bus company and I assume I passed with flying colours. I love drug testing because it cuts down the competition for jobs for me if anything.

I’ve never smoked marijuana or any other drug, never smoked cigarettes, I don’t drink alcohol, I run 10kms per day and I’m 80-82kg at 182cms. Eg: I’ve had two bottles of beer in 2013.
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April 10, 2013 9:23am
Longknives

Re Philu- Has ‘Whoar’ been purchased by that huge American company yet? Remember him telling us he was about to become a ‘major player’?
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April 10, 2013 9:24am
Weihana

Urban Redneck (108) Says:
April 10th, 2013 at 8:11 am

The case of a same-sex Connecticut couple accused of repeatedly raping and abusing two of their nine adopted boys is headed for trial.

Because abuse never happens in straight families. But then why would anyone expect the resident conservatives of this blog to be competent in applying logic and reason to a given situation. That would imply some level of intelligence for which we have no compelling evidence as yet.
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April 10, 2013 9:26am
David Garrett

L R & C: Fret not my boy…I am sure he was referring to the professional parasite Ure, rather than U (geddit?)…but I didn’t realise the law is changing so you need to be drug free to keep the DPB…Are you sure? If so the Nats are actually growing a pair…how ironic that it has taken a female Minister to get serious…hats off again to the late Baroness Thatcher…

Actually now I think about it, I am still waiting for Ham Sandwich (Hamvida) to explain to me why her passing is of so much less moment than Nelson Mandela’s, when it happens…
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April 10, 2013 9:30am
dime

Is this GSCB crap the most boring thing ever or what?

I almost fell alseep at the wheel listening to joyce & king discuss it on zb this morning.
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April 10, 2013 9:30am
Left Right and Centre

kowtow 8:58 am

The assessor is an employee of a contractor to the bus company. It was driver training.

Was the driver being assesed trained by the same co. doing the assessing?

That drive wasn’t an assessment, but the answer is still yes. The full class 2 licence practical test would be tested by the course provider… the same man. I’m fairly certain. And considering the fact that that same person fudges the two unit standards required for the P endorsement application process to allow people of low mental ability to pass tests that are meant to be closed book but weren’t, it makes me wonder what passes for a clear driving test.
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April 10, 2013 9:32am
iMP

Appalled today, observing the Left’s SHOCKING vile attacks on Thatcher’s passing at 87 with alzheimers. Disgusting mongrels.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/utter-shocking-vitriol-of-the-left-thatcher/
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April 10, 2013 9:33am
Longknives

Read some of the ‘Tweets’ abusing Ginger Spice (Who made the mistake of posting a RIP to Mrs Thatcher)

http://twitchy.com/2013/04/08/geri-halliwell-deletes-tribute-to-original-spice-girl-margaret-thatcher/

Gives a revealing insight into the mentality of the lefties..
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April 10, 2013 9:38am
RRM

It simply is not reciprocated by the Right who as conservatives, tend to be more moderate-minded and have some manners, some dignity and self-respect.

Really? You appear to have been reading a completely different Kiwiblog than me, iMP! 😉
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April 10, 2013 9:39am
Weihana

Ahhh.. the views of Ginger Spice.. What could be more relevant?
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April 10, 2013 9:42am
dime

guys! mentioning ure is like standing in front of the mirror and saying candyman 3 times. HE WILL SHOW UP!
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April 10, 2013 9:42am
Weihana

Castro will die soon then we will see the manners, dignity and self-respect of the right. 🙂

Actually I was rather surprised at the partying in the street. Such poor form to be celebrating death like that. Only in the very extreme case should such a thing be celebrated: e.g. death of Hitler.
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April 10, 2013 9:47am
Longknives

Dime- Unlike the Candyman and his deadly ‘hook-hand’ Philu will turn up carrying his WINZ cheque and a big spliff…
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April 10, 2013 9:59am
ex-golfer

Last week I asked someone, anyone, to offer up new policies from the Left that will aid the economic prosperity of the country.
I’m still waiting.
All I seem to get is complaints about process and calls for further pointless and costly inquiries.
Meanwhile in the real world, life moves on…….
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April 10, 2013 10:09am
meh

@ex-golfer – they just did last night, Grow all the dope you want, a whole new line of exports!

Think of the branding opportunities, maui-wowi, gisbourne gold… etc
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April 10, 2013 10:11am
RightNow

Anybody know what day benefits are paid? I’m guessing today given the absence of BWAV/pollywog.
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April 10, 2013 10:17am
David Garrett

Perhaps we have unwittingly uncovered the reason for Ure’s sudden departure…it is that his news aggregation site HAS in fact been taken over by Google for several mill, and Phil is permanently “coned out” smoking the proceeds on some beach in Costa Rica with no internet access…

Oh and Ham Sandwich, when you drop by and have a minute, please let me know why Thatchers passing is less significant than Mandela’s imminent final act…
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April 10, 2013 10:21am
Fletch

25 quotes from Margaret Thatcher.

“To cure the British disease with socialism was like trying to cure leukemia with leeches.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“I came to office with one deliberate intent: to change Britain from a dependent to a self-reliant society — from a give-it-to-me, to a do-it-yourself nation. A get-up-and-go, instead of a sit-back-and-wait-for-it Britain.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“We want a society where people are free to make choices, to make mistakes, to be generous and compassionate. This is what we mean by a moral society; not a society where the state is responsible for everything, and no one is responsible for the state.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“My job is to stop Britain from going red.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“There can be no liberty unless there is economic liberty.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“They’re casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It’s our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“Socialists cry “Power to the people”, and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

Communist regimes were not some unfortunate aberration, some historical deviation from a socialist ideal. They were the ultimate expression, unconstrained by democratic and electoral pressures, of what socialism is all about. … In short, the state [is] everything and the individual nothing. ~ Margaret Thatcher

“Of course it’s the same old story. Truth usually is the same old story.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“I owe nothing to Women’s Lib.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people’s money. It’s quite a characteristic of them.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“Pennies don’t fall from heaven, they have to be earned here on earth.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“Good Conservatives always pay their bills. And on time. Not like the Socialists who run up other people’s bills.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“Let us never forget this fundamental truth: The State has no source of money other than the money people themselves earn.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“Let me give you my vision: A man’s right to work as he will, to spend what he earns, to own property, to have the state as servant and not as master.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“All corporatism – even when practised in societies where hard work, enterprise and cooperation are as highly valued as in Korea – encourages inflexibility, discourages individual accountability, and risks magnifying errors by concealing them.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“Constitutions have to be written on hearts, not just paper.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“It is not the creation of wealth that is wrong, but the love of money for its own sake.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“No one would remember the Good Samaritan if he’d only had good intentions; he had money as well.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“Many of our troubles are due to the fact that our people turn to politicians for everything.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“When all the objectives of government include the achievement of equality – other than equality before the law – that government poses a threat to liberty.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“Socialists have always spent much of their time seeking new titles for their beliefs, because the old versions so quickly become outdated and discredited.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“Socialism’s results have ranged between the merely shabby and the truly catastrophic – poverty, strife, oppression and, on the killing fields of communism, the deaths this century of perhaps 100 million people. Against that doctrine was set a contrary, conservative belief in a law-governed liberty. It was this view which triumphed with the crumbling of the Berlin Wall. Since then, the Left has sought rehabilitation by distancing itself from its past.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

“Marxists get up early to further their cause. We must get up even earlier to defend our freedom.” ~ Margaret Thatcher
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April 10, 2013 10:25am
RRM

YES Dave, that’s EXACTLY where Phil will be… 😆
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April 10, 2013 10:29am
Longknives

David- I just had a peep at ‘Whoar’. It seems to be still run by Phil (that unique writing style..)
The multi-million dollar American deal must have fallen through-There are ‘Advertise here’ empty spaces all over the page.
He still seems to be furiously cutting and pasting all those important articles about vegetarian dog biscuits etc etc
Sadly there wasn’t one singe comment.
I also think a tumbleweed blew past while I was reading.
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April 10, 2013 10:31am
Fletch

In case you missed the news, up to 14 people were stabbed when a student ran amok at a University (The Lonestar Campus) in Texas.

Over 12 people were stabbed Tuesday on the campus of Lone Star Community College campus in Cypress, Texas, after a male suspect reportedly used a small knife, ran from building to building and randomly attacked individuals along the way.

Harris Country Sheriff Adrian Garcia said in a press conference Tuesday afternoon that the suspect, described as a young white male, has been taken into custody.

Because it is a gun-free campus, all that people could do was to huddle in classrooms with no way to defend themselves.

One student interviewed said

“We wish we could protect ourselves with guns and stuff. We wish that the law would let us carry guns because we’re legal adults, [to] carry guns on campus to protect ourselves. But so far all we have to rely on is God. But we would love to have God and the law on our side.”
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April 10, 2013 10:32am
liarbors a joke

That wasn’t a tumbleweed Longknives…it was a dried dope plant…
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April 10, 2013 10:39am
RRM

Urban_redneck: You’ll like this…

Reason #1 why young children should never be left alone with married, moralising christian men:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Capill
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April 10, 2013 10:41am
Fletch

Gay Connecticut couple facing trial for raping two of their nine adopted children with allegations by three more kids being made.

Harasz and Wirth adopted nine children — three sets of male siblings — beginning in 2000, and ran a home-based dog breeding business called The Puppy Guy.

The couple was arrested in November 2011 following a police and state investigation of sex-abuse allegations. The children were removed from the home.

Police said two boys, ages 5 and 15, accused Harasz of sexually assaulting them. Harasz was initially facing first-degree sexual assault and other charges, while Wirth had been charged with third-degree sexual assault of the 15-year-old boy.

Their arrest warrants claimed the couple not only sexually and physically abused the children, but also forced them to sleep in closets.

But now, three other children are claiming they were also abused, although no new criminal charges had been filed Friday, the Hartford Courant reported.

One of the victims who spoke during the court hearing said sexual assault began when he was 6.

“They took turns raping me over and over,” he said. “Anyone who would do this to a child is a sick, demented person.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/gay-conn-couple-accused-rape-face-trial-article-1.1310010

Don’t f_ck with the natural family.
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April 10, 2013 10:52am
SGA

Fletch (4,122) Says:
April 10th, 2013 at 10:32 am

In case you missed the news, up to 14 people were stabbed when a student ran amok at a University (The Lonestar Campus) in Texas.

Because it is a gun-free campus, all that people could do was to huddle in classrooms with no way to defend themselves.

Actually, the reports say that the suspect was wrestled to ground by another student. No deaths reported so far either, thank goodness.
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April 10, 2013 10:57am
RRM

The answer’s always more guns, no matter what the question is.

Jake wouldn’t have needed a gun to sort out some softcock student with a “small knife”..

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyz44smsLd1r7jsxio1_500.jpg
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April 10, 2013 11:06am
Fletch

Good news sci-fi fans!

Blakes 7 is going to make a comeback with 13 new episodes being made, and directed by Martin Campbell!

MIPTV, Cannes, 8 April 2013 – FremantleMedia International today launches the eagerly anticipated remake of the cult drama Blake’s 7 to international buyers at MIPTV. In development with US cable network Syfy, the 13 x 1 hour series will be produced by Georgeville TV, the independent studio co-founded by Leon Clarance of Motion Picture Capital, the financing arm of Reliance Entertainment, and producer Marc Rosen. The science fiction classic will be written by Joe Pokaski (Heroes, CSI) and directed by Martin Campbell (Casino Royale, GoldenEye).

http://www.fremantlemedia.com/news/news-detail/13-04-08/FremantleMedia_International_Launches_Georgeville_TV%E2%80%99S_Remake_of_Cult_Series_Blake_s_7_To_MIPTV_Buyers.aspx

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22079232
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April 10, 2013 11:09am
stigie

@ LRC
Was the assessor Phil Ure…eh…?
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April 10, 2013 11:10am
krazykiwi

Tattooed boy’s mother plans legal action

Yes, very nasty that he was branded with a tattoo. It looks straight/square so was he fighting the tattooist off, or happily acquiescing?

As for the claim that “he continues to be scared of people seeing his tattoo, refusing to swim or undress in front of others”, riiiight, he’s quite happy to have a staged photograph put in the web for all time.
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April 10, 2013 11:14am
Fletch

HBO’s mini-series The Bible has just gone on sale in the U.S on DVD and is the biggest selling mini-series in 5 years, and on blu-ray, the biggest ever.

The History Channel’s just-wrapped miniseries The Bible isn’t done changing the pop culture landscape quite yet.

The program’s ratings gave the cable channel a massive boost, holding firm against even the season finale of AMC’s The Walking Dead.

Now, the miniseries’ home video debut has become the biggest selling TV on DVD in the last 5 years and the biggest miniseries of all time on Blu-ray, Digital HD and DVD in its first week of release.

According to the Association for Christian Retail, The Bible is the fastest pre-selling faith based title in its 60-year history. It also ranked first across digital stores including iTunes, Amazon, VUDU, Xbox, PlayStation, CinemaNow, and GooglePlay.

That can’t be right, because no one is religious anymore or cares about The Bible right?
That’s what the media tell us.
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April 10, 2013 11:20am
krazykiwi

Oooo, the Basin [Reserve] renowned in roundabout circle. An October calendar entry.

I once heard it suggested that you could always see where the British Empire had once been. When the pulled out they left roundabouts 🙂
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April 10, 2013 11:26am
Grendel

Mythology is a popular subject in fiction and good mythology sells well, and mythology of christianity has more fans than twilight (though the subject matter is about as serious), so it make sense that when you make a good story of that mythology it will sell.

as cool as the norse mythology is, it would not sell as well as it does not have as many adherents (despite having better stories). however the show Vikings is doing well and has a lot of references to their mythology.
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April 10, 2013 11:26am
nasska

….”That can’t be right, because no one is religious anymore or cares about The Bible right?”…..

Not really but certain parts of the world prove to be exceptions to the rule. For example there’s the USA with more religious nutters per square mile than Iran.
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April 10, 2013 11:26am
Fletch

naaska, if by “religious nutter” you mean Bible-believing, moral, upright, salt-of-the-earth, law abiding people, then you may be right 🙂
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April 10, 2013 11:30am
nasska

It all depends on who’s writing the script Fletch. 🙂
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April 10, 2013 11:36am
RRM

I wish I had God in my life, so it was all written down for me and I didn’t have to think for myself about how to behave and how to treat other people… 🙁
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April 10, 2013 11:41am
Harriet

“…..According to the Association for Christian Retail, The Bible is the fastest pre-selling faith based title in its 60-year history. It also ranked first across digital stores including iTunes, Amazon, VUDU, Xbox, PlayStation, CinemaNow, and GooglePlay……”

I’ve heard that Kylie Minogue is singing in that. Maybe worth the gays checking it out. 😎
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April 10, 2013 11:43am
krazykiwi

RRM – Sort the first part, and your fundamental misunderstanding in the second part would become apparent 🙂
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April 10, 2013 11:45am
nasska

I sympathise RRM….the Godbotherers make it all so complicated but this should help. 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2kb5gvjefcnfnr5/Christianity%20explained%203.jpg
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April 10, 2013 11:50am
Fletch

Mythology is a popular subject in fiction and good mythology sells well, and mythology of christianity has more fans than twilight (though the subject matter is about as serious), so it make sense that when you make a good story of that mythology it will sell.

Grendel, J.R.R Tolkein made the point (to C.S Lewis, and which Lewis also talked about) that Christianity and the Bible were indeed a myth, but a true myth.

[Myths] awaken in the reader a longing for something that is beyond his grasp. Myths have this fascination because they effect a catharsis, that is, they move us and purify us; thus they expand our consciousness, allowing us through them to transcend ourselves. So myths are not “poets’ deceptions” (as Plato said in his Republic) nor demonic delusions (as many of the Church Fathers thought), nor clerical lies (as many Enlightenment figures asserted), but “Myth in general is . . . at its best, a real though unfocused gleam of divine truth falling on human imagination.” (Lewis, Miracles, p. 134)

And –

Here is an account of discussions between Tolkein and Lewis and the ideas and thoughts they discussed –

This meeting, which was to have such a revolutionary impact on Lewis’ life, took place on 19 September 1931 after Lewis had invited Tolkien and Dyson to dine at Magdalen. Dyson, who was Lecturer in English Literature at Reading University, was a good friend of Lewis, visiting Oxford frequently, and was also known by Tolkien who had first met him at Exeter College in 1919. After dinner the three men went for a walk beside the river and discussed the nature and purpose of myth. Lewis explained that he felt the power of myths but that they were ultimately untrue. As he expressed it to Tolkien, myths are ‘lies and therefore worthless, even though breathed through silver’.

No,’ said Tolkien. ‘They are not lies.’

At that moment, Lewis later recalled, there was ‘a rush of wind which came so suddenly on the still, warm evening and sent so many leaves pattering down that we thought it was raining. We held our breath.’

Tolkien resumed, arguing that myths, far from being lies, were the best way of conveying truths which would otherwise be inexpressible. We have come from God, Tolkien argued, and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbor, whereas materialistic ‘progress’ leads only to the abyss and to the power of evil.

[…]

Now, five years later, it seemed that Tolkien was making sense of it all. He had shown that pagan myths were, in fact, God expressing Himself through the minds of poets, using the images of their ‘mythopoeia’ to reveal fragments of His eternal truth. Yet, most astonishing of all, Tolkien maintained that Christianity was exactly the same except for the enormous difference that the poet who invented it was God Himself, and the images He used were real men and actual history. The death and resurrection of Christ was the old ‘Dying God’ myth except that Christ was the real Dying God, with a precise and verifiable location in history and definite historical consequences. The old myth had become a fact while still retaining the character of a myth.

Is worth reading the whole page –

http://payingattentiontothesky.com/2011/07/21/the-friendship-and-true-myth/

Here is a dramatisation of some of there discussions –

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzBT39gx-TE
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April 10, 2013 11:57am
dime

first fo all – well done fletch. another fucking religious GD!

religious crap does sell well because the core audience loves it. like that passion of the christ movie that made ole racist mel super wealthy
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April 10, 2013 12:01pm
publicwatchdog

Hi Kiwibloggers!

FYI

VICTORY TO OCCUPY AUCKLAND! (NEW ZEALAND)

HIGH COURT JUDGE ELLIS ORDERS THE ‘QUASHING’ OF JUDGE WILSON’S INJUNCTION!

REPERCUSSIONS COMING FOR AUCKLAND COUNCIL CEO AND ‘GENERAL COUNSEL’ FOR AUCKLAND COUNCIL?

10 April 2013

OPEN LETTER:

I wish to apply for speaking rights at the CEO Review Subcommittee meeting scheduled for 12 April 2013.

My subject matter will be:

1) The Occupy Auckland vs Auckland Council Appeal, ‘Order’ of J Ellis, dated 5 April 2013, quashing the J Wilson injunction.

From: Mel Libre [mailto:Mel.Libre@justice.govt.nz]
Sent: Monday, 8 April 2013 10:53 a.m.

Subject: CIV2011-404-8284: WADSWORTH v AUCKLAND COUNCIL
Importance: High

Good day Counsel,

Justice Ellis has read the memoranda filed by parties seeking order for the quashing District Court injunction.

Her Honour made a handwritten order on file that reads: “Accordingly” dated 5 April 2013.

Kindly inform Penelope Mary Bright, as we do not have her email address.

Thank you.

Yours truly,

Mel Libre
Deputy Registrar/Appeals Manager
High Court Auckland
Ministry of Justice
Tahu o te Ture
PO Box 60
AUCKLAND
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

2) The factually inaccurate LGOIMA reply from General Counsel for Auckland Council, Wendy Brandon, regarding legal expenses on Occupy Auckland Court proceedings, where she has personally signed a letter dated 20 March 2013:

“Official Information Request No:9000122003

“I refer to your email which we received on 11 March 2013, requesting information about legal spend “relating to all Court proceedings arising from or pertaining to Occupy Auckland prosecutions and related matters.

Auckland Council spent a total of $194,623.32 on legal fees relating to Occupy Auckland matters.
…. ”

This cannot possibly be correct.

The Auckland Council LGOIMA (Official Information Request 9000114049)reply to TVNZ dated 13 February 2012, (over one year ago) stated:

“Legal Fees and Costs $194,626 ”

(Item 3)

http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/OCCUPY-AUCKLAND-APPEAL-APPLICATION-BY-APPELLANT-BRIGHT-TO-ADDUCE-NEW-EVIDENCE-pdf.pdf

Further legal costs incurred since 13 February 2012 (correction) , included the Occupy Auckland vs Auckland Council Appeal, which was heard on 25 September 2012 in the Auckland High Court.

It is my understanding that further legal costs would have included legal submissions, plus High Court appearances, and that Meredith Connell, Counsel for Auckland Council, did not perform their legal service ‘pro bono’?

Please be advised that I do not and will not accept any ‘typo’ excuses, from the General Counsel for Auckland Council, Wendy Brandon, for this letter which she has personally signed.

3) I wish to table notification of my formal request for an independent inquiry by the most appropriate Committee of Auckland Council ELECTED representatives, into:

a) The non-prudent wastage of over $200,000 Auckland Council citizen and ratepayers monies, on legal proceedings against Occupy Auckland, and ‘named Respondents’ – including myself.

b) The actions of Auckland Council CEO Doug McKay, General Counsel for Auckland Council, Wendy Brandon, and Auckland Council Manager of Risk and Assurance Natalie Verdouw in taking Occupy Auckland to Court.

4) A review of the ‘induction’ / ‘familiarisation’ process(es) , by which the CEO becomes aware of the key legislation which covers his/her role as the Principal Administrative Officer’ of Auckland Council, including (but not limited to) the Local Government Act/ the Local Government Rating Act/ the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act / the NZ Bill of Rights Act and the Human Rights Amendment Act.

Yours sincerely,

Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
Occupy Auckland Appellant (in my own name)
http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/
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April 10, 2013 12:02pm
RightNow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1WcxRaMmIM
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April 10, 2013 12:03pm
Keeping Stock

@ Left Right and Centre (9.23am) – I was, as other commenters noted, referring to Phil Ure; self-confessed solo parent, DPB recipient with no desire to work, and self-confessed habitual cannabis smoker. Apologies for not being clearer in my post 😀
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April 10, 2013 12:04pm
Pete George

The Child Support Amendment Bill passed yesterday by 71 to 49 with National, NZ First, Maori Party, ACT, United Future and Brendan Horan in support.

Labour voted against, they are confusing Child Support with child poverty and it is doubtful their opposition is genuine, it’s just another opportunity for them to push what they think is another populist barrow.

Peter Dunne made it clear the primary responsibility for the support of children rests clearly with the parents.

I want to send a message to all parents out there: in the situation of a relationship breaking down, your primary responsibility, whatever aggravation there might be or bitterness might surround the situation, is to your children.

And your primary responsibility, both of you, is to sit down and try and negotiate arrangements that provide for the effective care and maintenance of those children.

If that cannot be achieved then child support is there to help you. But do not simply look at the system and say “That’s the default. We just go there automatically. And we both end up mutually unhappy.” Because the long-term losers from that are very clear to identify, the kids.

The kids are the one group who do not choose their parents, they do not choose their circumstances, but they are influenced dramatically by them.

Let us not kid ourselves that this legislation or any legislation is the ultimate answer, but this bill recognising contemporary situations is a vast improvement on the current Act.

It is one that will be much fairer in many respects for more people. It is in tune with the mood of contemporary society.

Child Support Amendment Bill passed

Child Support should only be used if all else fails, and should not be seen as a convenient escape from responsibilities.
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April 10, 2013 12:21pm
graham

Peter Dunne has got something right for once. 🙂

I want to send a message to all parents out there: in the situation of a relationship breaking down, your primary responsibility, whatever aggravation there might be or bitterness might surround the situation, is to your children.

And your primary responsibility, both of you, is to sit down and try and negotiate arrangements that provide for the effective care and maintenance of those children.

Absolutely. If only more people would take their responsibility to their children seriously, and put it ahead of their own desires. The children must come first.

And parents should start thinking along these lines before they even have children, and ask themselves if they are seriously prepared to put the needs of their children ahead of their own needs for the next 18 or 20 years. If they’re not prepared to do that, maybe they should think about whether they really want to be parents.

Good on you Peter Dunne.
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April 10, 2013 12:30pm
Harriet

“…..a) The non-prudent wastage of over $200,000 Auckland Council citizen and ratepayers monies, on legal proceedings against Occupy Auckland, and ‘named Respondents’ – including myself….”

For you causing all that wastage Penny……I’ll give a charity of DPF’s choosing $200 if he kicks your ass out of this domain. 😎
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April 10, 2013 12:34pm
stigie

Hey Penny, being an anti-corruption campaigner that you say you are…how about putting some of that energy into the corruption of Winston Peters who stole $158000 from the taxpayer to give to charity …?
BTW, i will give $200 to charity of DPF’s choosing to get you off this domain also !!
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April 10, 2013 1:12pm
Weihana

Fletch (4,126) Says:
April 10th, 2013 at 11:30 am

naaska, if by “religious nutter” you mean Bible-believing, moral, upright, salt-of-the-earth, law abiding people, then you may be right

As an atheist/agnostic I have no problem with religious people. In fact my partner is religious. I also think religion and spirituality is a valuable piece of human culture. For instance I don’t believe Maui fished up the North Island, nor do I believe a mountain is my ancestor. But I value this cultural heritage nonetheless. These myths and legends, along with those provided by Christianity and other belief systems, help make our history colourful and interesting.

For me a “religious nutter” is not simply someone who has religious beliefs, but is someone who cannot distinguish between more concrete forms of knowledge and beliefs which are pure conjecture and faith-based. These people almost invariably find it necessary to convince others of the truth of their myths and legends as a basis for imposing such beliefs on other people. They struggle to argue from solid epistemological foundations and ultimately the reasons underlying their political advocacy are deduced from religious premises rather than things in the real world upon which people can rationally agree.

Perhaps a good test is that a reasonable religious person can say “I believe XYZ, but I may be wrong”. The nutter makes no such allowances.
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April 10, 2013 1:24pm
David Garrett

How does that odd woman afford to set up all these different websites? I know they’ve got a lot cheaper, but they are not yet free, are they?
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April 10, 2013 1:39pm
Left Right and Centre

Keeping Stock 12:04 pm *nod*
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April 10, 2013 2:04pm
Ross12

Is this the Greens testing Dame Susan Devoy ?

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/16660518/greens-go-to-devoy-on-maori-youth-prosecution-rates/
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April 10, 2013 2:14pm
kowtow

krazykiwi

Tattoo affairs.

Simple.Whoever tated the kid should be charged with assault (if as claimed it was administered without his consent)

But I see a wee problem with that. There’d be little or no taxpayer compensation forthcoming.(And the story could fall over)

Instead sue and as the taxpayer has deep pockets ,courtesy of our public service,you’re likely to get some nice dollars,one way or the other.
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April 10, 2013 3:38pm
Viking2

The Charities Taxpayer Rort.

The Charities Commission identified
Auckland University as the largest charity in New Zealand in 2011 with combined income and assets of $2.3 billion.
Tainui Group Holdings was placed tenth with $328 million.
The Roman Catholic Diocese of Auckland Group is listed as the top charity registered as a group with income and assets valued at $793 million.
The Ngai Tahu Charitable Group is listed in second place with a value of $762 million.

The total income received by the charities sector has increased substantially over the last few years from $6.1 billion in 2009 to $14.2 billion in 2011. The increase is driven by the growth in government grants and in the provision of services, with grants growing from $1.8 billion to $4.8 billion and service provision growing from $2.1 billion to $5.5 billion. Donations also grew from $0.6 billion to $1.05 billion, no doubt as a result of tax changes.

The sectors that received the greatest amount of charitable funding in 2011 were education, training and research, which received $4.5 billion, followed by health with $3.4 billion, religious activities with $1.3 billion, and social services with $680 million.

http://www.nzcpr.com/guest331.htm

Hopefully Mr Dunne (remember the Minister who wanted to tax cellphones), will go after the blatant tax evasion operating under the Charites guide.

So this summer while you are enjoying your Weetbix, jet boat rides, and Mission Estate wines, while pontificating on your elective surgery cancellations at your underfunded district health board which pays a property tax because the government built you a hospital instead of investing the money in the bank, do so in the certain knowledge that as a taxpayer you are indirectly supporting charitable activity in our communities. The question is, however, just how much public benefit do our income-tax exempt charities provide to our communities?
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April 10, 2013 6:02pm
Longknives

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/16660518/greens-go-to-devoy-on-maori-youth-prosecution-rates/

Could it be- Shock Horror! That Maori simply commit more crime than any other Ethnic group in New Zealand??
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April 10, 2013 6:06pm
mikenmild

I thought the point was that of persons who committed crimes, Maori were more likely to be prosecuted.
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April 10, 2013 6:11pm
Left Right and Centre

Seen while running today:

dog walker with four dogs. She wasn’t walking though…. she was struggling away hopelessly on a pushbike with all four dogs on one main lead on one side. Good one.

You own a dog… and then outsource walking the damn thing. That’s posh.

If you’re the dog walker…. four dogs to stop for all the time and they’d want to pull in potentially four different directions at once… and you’re on a pushbike. The dog walker was a porker and looked like her worst nightmare would involve actually having to walk the dogs. It’s always quite funny watching fat folks trying to balance all the weight uneasily. She’s doing well to even give it a crack.
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April 10, 2013 6:15pm
Left Right and Centre

I wonder what Penny’s thumbs down high score is?
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April 10, 2013 6:16pm
Left Right and Centre

(602)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8528083/Man-kills-wife-over-protection-order

This bloke stabs his wife to death. blah blah and also issued Prole with a three strikes warning.

Three strikes warning. Yeah, you think? Only two stabbings left to go on your customer loyalty card fella.

Obviously that’s game over on strike one surely? Fucking hell.
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April 10, 2013 6:28pm
nasska

This should give the Godfreaks a hard on. 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xzp453vu0hxaa1o/Libtards2.jpg
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April 10, 2013 6:32pm
Left Right and Centre

nasska (6,053) 6:32 pm (603) you’re a troublemaker and an agitator. Like me.
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April 10, 2013 6:36pm
nasska

LR&C

Guilty as charged. 🙂
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April 10, 2013 6:38pm
Left Right and Centre

(604) errrr…. Thelma’s Gypsy Girls. They’re not gypsies… they’re Irish travellers… that’s what they call themselves. How fucking stupid.
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April 10, 2013 6:38pm
Reid

Perhaps a good test is that a reasonable religious person can say “I believe XYZ, but I may be wrong”. The nutter makes no such allowances.

So Weihana, are you saying you think that religious people who say, for example, “I believe God raised Jesus from the dead” are unreasonable whereas you think “religious” people who say for example, “I believe God raised Jesus from the dead but I may be wrong” are reasonable?

If that’s what you are saying can I tell you that as far as religion is concerned, faith is the entry requirement. You don’t get through the door without it. This may be “unreasonable” to people who aren’t religious, but religious people aren’t really interested in what non-religious people think on the matter of their religion. A bit like a lawyer isn’t really interested in whether or not their client’s opinion is that they’re not guilty of the crime they’ve been charged with, under the law.

You see Weihana, it’s all about the law. Religion has laws too, and one of them is faith. In that, if you don’t have faith, you’re not “religious” according to the religious law. A bit like, just because you think you’re not guilty, this doesn’t mean you’re not, under man’s laws.

This may seem unreasonable to you, but can I suggest this has more to do with your ignorance of what religion is and how it works, than anything to do with religion itself. Just as it does with a client who thinks they’re not guilty but nevertheless, surprise surprise, the law finds they actually, in fact are. So is this the client’s fault because they’re ignorant of how the law works notwithstanding their belief in their lack of guilt is sincere, or is it the law of man’s fault and it’s the law acting unreasonably in this circumstance?
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April 10, 2013 6:42pm
Viking2

The argument that climate science is in fact climate politics is the main theme of man-made climate change sceptic Christopher Monckton who spoke in Tauranga last night.

With other scientists beginning to accept the evidence that there has been no global warming for 16 years, Chris – the 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley – focuses on who benefits from the global warming belief system.

While few are yet familiar with Agenda 21, terms like “Sustainable Development”, “Smart Growth”, and “Renewable Energy”, Chris says they are now part and parcel of both local and national politics.

An online search for some of the key concepts of Agenda 21 reveals most New Zealand local government long term policy has been explicitly implementing Agenda 21 for nearly 20 years, and that it dictates many aspects of people’s lives.

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/41707-a-hard-look-at-climate-science.html
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April 10, 2013 6:47pm
Nookin

“The non-prudent wastage of over $200,000 Auckland Council citizen and ratepayers monies, on legal proceedings against Occupy Auckland, and ‘named Respondents’ – including myself.”

Penny — they won against you. They only lost against unknown persons who might turn up in the future and find themselves unwittingly in contempt. The decision fully vindicates the action by ACC and it is clear that the bylaw will be enforceable by injunction should there be a repeat. You seem to have no understanding of the issues. Summing them up:
1. You caused damage.
2. You interfered with the rights of others ( whose rights you neither recognised nor respected).
3. You were told, lawfully, to bugger off but refused.
4. The court said the council was within its rights to tell you to bugger off and given that you wouldn’t listen to the council, the court directed you to bugger off.
5. On Appeal, Ellis J said that this was all in order but the wording of the injunction went further than was necessary (wording that, incidentally, had no application to you). Given that by this time you had, finally, buggered off, the court saw no need to reframe the injunction and discharged it — presumably with the consent of council.

If you are so adamant that you won, why don’t you convene another mob of non-contributors to squat in the square damaging property that you see fit to utilise at will but not pay for?
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April 10, 2013 7:09pm
nasska

….”I tell you that as far as religion is concerned, faith is the entry requirement. You don’t get through the door without it”….

Well, I’m glad you cleared that up for me Reid. I was a bit confused about the admission policy. 🙂
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April 10, 2013 7:22pm
nasska

Ahmed has been on a religious pilgrimage for weeks. Exhausted, he stops at a brothel, drops 500 shekels on the table and demands a stinky room, the ugliest woman in the house and some mouldy hummus with stale pita.

The owner says “Sahib, for that money you can have my finest suite, the most charming of my ladies, and a three course meal.”

Ahmed replies, “That’s OK – I’m not horny, I’m just homesick.”
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April 10, 2013 8:00pm
Reid

In the “believe it or not” dept, can anyone explain why the West, who are supposed to be fighting against Al-Qa’ida, tolerate this new alliance, where the Iraqian Al-Qa’idian’s are teaming up with the Syrian fweedom fighters?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10876608

But of course, to those who think the buildings really did fall down because of those nasty burny fires and the massive plane impacts (despite the buildings being designed to withstand them) and that Saddam weally weally did have WMD’s (despite all the intel services coming out now and saying it was bullshit at the time and they told their leaders that), all of this is just business as usual, and only to be expected, it happens all the time and anyone who says otherwise, why they pwobably hate our fweedoms as well.
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April 10, 2013 9:30pm
Weihana

Reid (13,393) Says:
April 10th, 2013 at 6:42 pm

So Weihana, are you saying you think that religious people who say, for example, “I believe God raised Jesus from the dead” are unreasonable whereas you think “religious” people who say for example, “I believe God raised Jesus from the dead but I may be wrong” are reasonable?

If they do not make allowances for their fallibility then yes they are unreasonable.

You see Weihana, it’s all about the law. Religion has laws too, and one of them is faith.

Right… just as they have laws about contraception and we just know that all Catholics pay attention to that “law”. Religion is subjective. People can make up whatever rules they like and call themselves whatever they wish. The individual determines the structure of their beliefs, not you nor any supposed religious authority.

But putting that aside, I do not see that faith negates an acknowledgement of fallibility. To believe without evidence is “faith”. To acknowledge that such a belief may be wrong does not change the fact that one does in fact believe and that belief is faith based.
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April 11, 2013 11:28am

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