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March 9, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 9 March 2013

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General Debate

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Harriet

I would never have picked Wayne Smith for a chimney sweep! 😎
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March 9, 2013 7:44pm
Harriet

Bereal#

chucks on our side.
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March 9, 2013 7:46pm
Harriet

“….Chris Laidlaw – former All Black, Rhodes Scholar, Wellington councillor and broadcaster…’

Rhodes Scholars are supposed to be for King and Country – like their benefactor Cecil Rhodes. Tony Abbott is .

Laidlaw’s sold us out to the chimney sweeps and ‘their’ way of running an economy – exspensively.

So much for mothers in the suburbs who have to feed and bath their kids – Laidlaw should know better!
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March 9, 2013 7:54pm
nasska

Wife to husband, “Right, before we get there, promise me you won’t dance?”

“I can’t,” he replied, “I already promised your mother I would.”

“Ok, but at least wait until everyone else has left her grave.”
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March 9, 2013 7:57pm
bereal

Johnboy @ 7.39
Thanks for that, not.

That must rank as the most disgusting thing since Jonathon Hunt was elevated
to the Order of New Zealand.

Next Labour Govt, Wayne Smith is now a certainty.
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March 9, 2013 8:01pm
nasska

Johnboy

It fair gives me warm fuzzies all the way down my alimentary canal to realise that such greats are looking after the planet & keeping a watch on our carbon.

Mind you seeing a yeoman of wankers such as Laidlaw’s name on the list helped too.
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March 9, 2013 8:01pm
Johnboy

The shortage of Wharfies, Plumbers, Mechanics and Forklift Drivers on the list has me wondering if the team will be able to take the country along with them on their crusade! 🙂
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March 9, 2013 8:05pm
Kea

” I was married to a kiwi for many years.”

Silly confession to make. No wonder I got the thumbs down, I deserved it 🙂
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March 9, 2013 8:12pm
Elaycee

@Johnboy: The former half back will be good at arranging travel – there’s an ugly rumour he found an old book of taxi chits in the back of the wardrobe. 😀
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March 9, 2013 8:14pm
nasska

Kea

For some unknown reason Pommie chicks do it for me as far as partners go……first one lasted thirty years & I’m breaking in my second one now. 🙂
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March 9, 2013 8:19pm
Harriet

Johnboy# Kea#

Q: What do a tornado and a Danneverke divorce have in common?

A: In the end, someone is going to lose a trailer. 😎
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March 9, 2013 8:30pm
Kea

nasska (5,827) Says:
March 9th, 2013 at 8:19 pm
Kea

For some unknown reason Pommie chicks do it for me as far as partners go

Each to his own. 🙂

“It is far from an achievement to be proud of – research suggests that British men and women are the most promiscuous in the Western world.”

This was from the same study that revealed Kiwi women as the most promiscuous in the world. It should not be a surprise, as we are a British culture, without the moderating influence of Europe next door.

Good on you for getting through 30 years. I am a strong believer in marriage.
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March 9, 2013 8:45pm
Kea

Steve (North Shore) (3,499) Says:
March 9th, 2013 at 7:43 pm
Well what a General Masturbate that was.
I am thinking of grabbing my dick as 99% here today have.

Ok boys. We either have a liar or a women here amongst us in that 1% ! 😉
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March 9, 2013 8:51pm
nasska

Kea

Well ‘Harriet’ has always been a bit sus. 🙂
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March 9, 2013 8:53pm
Kea

bereal (2,432) Says:
March 9th, 2013 at 7:38 pm

i look forward to a host of faggots giving this post a thumbs down.

bereal, are you still looking forward to all that attention from a host of faggots ? They seem to be ignoring you. Maybe you should work on your pick up lines.
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March 9, 2013 8:55pm
Kea

Well ‘Harriet’ has always been a bit sus.

I bet he is blogging away on his phone as he loiters outside some seedy gay bar, dressed in a lumber Jack outfit, even as we speak 🙂
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March 9, 2013 8:59pm
wat dabney

“wat, is keeping the Sunday as a day of rest required by the churches of Christianity? ”

It is required by Yahweh.

Keeping the Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments.

Not keeping it is a sin on a par with murder.

Put another way, if it is okay to ignore the prohibition on working on the Sabbath then it is equally okay to steal and to commit murder, repeatedly.
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March 9, 2013 9:04pm
nasska

I hear that he/she/it worked Hunter’s Corner before leaving for the big bucks in Queensland Kea.

Used to give out Bible pamphlets on the nights when trade was slack. 🙂
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March 9, 2013 9:05pm
Reid

Put another way, if it is okay to ignore the prohibition on working on the Sabbath then it is equally okay to steal and to commit murder, repeatedly.

So speaketh wat, the authority on not just the bible and forget all the theology on that over the last two thousand years because wat knows better than all of them, but also on how every single Christian in the world today actually really does interpret it, in their own minds.

Wow.

Talk about the biggest mind in history, or is it just an ego thing and he just thinks he knows? One of the two. Who knows which one it is? Let’s see.

wat, what do you see as the main errors in the Standard Model and how do you reconcile those? If you answer correctly, you could win the Nobel Prize for Physics. If you don’t, I’m going to have to conclude it’s just an ego thing you’ve got going on, and proceed to speculate on causes.
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March 9, 2013 9:21pm
SPC

wat, personally, I think it was presumptious of Moses to have presumed that the buttocks that he saw belonged to the Creator of all creation, this is just a form of very pagan and unnatural idolotry.
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March 9, 2013 9:23pm
SPC

wat, second point the Hebrew word for eternal is not a name for God. Third the point of relating law to an eternal source is to describe law as something that is part of a social contract (rule of a national society) across its generations – covenant nation law.
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March 9, 2013 9:29pm
Kea

Keeping the Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments.

Not keeping it is a sin on a par with murder.

The penalty is to be murdered. Along with being an un-virgin bride and rather a lot else.
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March 9, 2013 9:55pm
Jacob Cohen

Keeping the Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments.
Not keeping it is a sin on a par with murder.

Did not Jesus break the Sabbath more than once?
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March 9, 2013 10:07pm
SPC

Jacob, the problem with saying that taking an apple from a tree on a day of rest is breaking the sabbath day keeping requirement, is

1. it was not paid work.
2. it is less labour activity than carrying the apple to eat later.
3. it is less labour activity than getting out of bed.

I’m more inclined to ask whose apple tree was it.
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March 9, 2013 10:26pm
Kea

SPC, I think biblical case law gives some guidance on this issue:

Numbers 15:32-35, “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.”

What we can see is that the LORD demands a cruel death for a man collecting firewood to feed his family.
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March 9, 2013 11:10pm
SPC

Kea, that Moses claimed to have heard a God instructing him to kill others is not the surprising thing, but that others who had faith in a God would believe him.

I suspect it must be part of some secret inner cabal – survival of the fittest cult induction – only those capable of lasting a night in the open without fire or a day without preparing food were allowed to access the promised land. This after 40 years wandering around and all of the weak were eliminated.
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March 9, 2013 11:48pm
SPC

More seriously, in terms of group authoritarianism the logic is unmistakable – hear and obey or die. And it is no less common in group authoritarianism claiming to act in agency for God.

Apparently the punishment for not gathering sufficient wood before the sabbath day was to go without a fire or cooked food. Doing something about it was not to be an option.

That said my original point stands – it requires no more effort to pick an apple from a tree than out of a bowl inside the house – and walking to the tree outside the house is not a banned activity.
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March 9, 2013 11:59pm
UglyTruth

Did not Jesus break the Sabbath more than once?

The Pharisees accused him of this (Matthew 12). They were described as being dead on the inside, making the law a burden.
The response of verse 7 speaks of the importance of mercy. Without understanding the balance between mercy and severity the legal code appears harsh and unforgiving.

An example is the death penalty for disobedient children. According to Judaic law the death penalty can not be applied unless there is testimony from two or three witnesses. However, Judaic law doesn’t require witnesses to testify, so parents can judge the intent of their child and prevent the punishment by remaining silent.

Mercy and intent are related. Gathering firewood on the sabbath seems to be a trivial matter, but it could have been gathered lawfully the previous day, and at the time it was obvious to the people that their deity was quite capable of severity in judgement.
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March 10, 2013 1:25am
Kea

SPC that is one theory, but check this out:

Why Did God Kill A Man For Picking Up Sticks On The Sabbath Day?

What was the Sabbath Day? The Sabbath was a ceremonial law given only to Old Testament Jews living in Palestine. Ceremonial laws pictured divine truths. Some were shadows of things to come. Colossians 2:14-17 teaches that the ceremonial laws ceased at Calvary when Jesus died on the cross. God had commanded the Jews to work 6-days, but on the Sabbath they were to rest completely. COMPLETELY!!! The 6-days of man working represents human effort in salvation. No amount of human effort can save. The Sabbath is our precious Lord Jesus Christ, in Whom we rest completely for salvation. The Sabbath was a shadow of the coming Messiah, “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” (John 1:29). God is telling us through the death of this man that adding even the smallest amount of human effort will send us to Hell forever.

Now you know why God sentenced the man to death for breaking the Sabbath. Leave those sticks alone my friend! Don’t touch them! Don’t add to the gift of God! God is teaching everyone who reads the Bible that He will kill anyone who adds human effort to faith alone in Jesus Christ for salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith PLUS NOTHING!

http://www.godlovespeople.com/articles/killed_for_sticks.htm

The attempted justification of this act is the part that scares me the most.
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March 10, 2013 7:16am
UglyTruth

Salvation is by grace through faith PLUS NOTHING!

The faith versus works argument was one of the issues at the heart of the schism between the Christians and the Ebionites.

In response to Galatians 3:10-11 or Romans 4:2-5 James the Just wrote of Paul the Pharisee:

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:20
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March 10, 2013 8:09am
itstricky

They are a cultural group with beliefs and practices that has a legally recognised status. Your comment is equivalent to complaining because a hearse drives slow and holds up the traffic, or that cemeteries are a ‘waste of space’ and that Easter Eggs shouldn’t be sold in public. Those are European customs, just as this is a tangata whenua custom

Good analogy Judith.
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March 10, 2013 10:21am
Harriet

Redbaiter#

This link takes you to Melanie Phillips.

Your link goes to Spectator.

http://www.melaniephillips.com/
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March 10, 2013 5:03pm
Harriet

“……For at the heart of the decades-long onslaught by the Left against the core tenets of Western society lies the doctrine of ‘non-judgmentalism’, under which it has become forbidden to suggest that anyone’s lifestyle is more socially desirable than any other.

Worse still, those whose behaviour lies outside conventional social norms are deemed to be ‘victims’ and their demands have been relabelled ‘rights’.

So views that mothers and fathers are better for children than lone parents or step-parents, or that deliberately having babies outside marriage is selfish and irresponsible, have became unsayable.

The fundamental need children have for their own mother and father has simply been trumped by the selfish desires of adults.

To mask this abandonment of children, their core need was redefined as being ‘lifted out of poverty’ – which merely made their mothers ever more dependent on state benefits, and thus promoted sexual anarchy even further.

The result has been an unmitigated disaster. In some areas, several generations of family disintegration have resulted in a total breakdown in parenting, so that children are becoming horrifyingly incapable of even basic functions.

According to the Government’s adviser on problem families, Louise Casey, some three-year-olds are unable to walk because they are habitually parked in their buggies in front of the TV.

And Russell Hobby, general secretary of the National Association of Headteachers, has spoken of children who, when they come to school, can only grunt as they haven’t been taught to speak; and who may also still be in nappies at the age of five.

Ms Casey laments that no official initiatives seem to get through to such families. Of course not – because the one thing that is needed above all, to remove the perverse incentives that have destroyed marriage in such areas, is the one policy that will never be enacted.

The real reason the Tories won’t properly address this is not just the inane social nihilism of Nick Clegg. It is surely because the Tory leadership itself has such a shallow and reductive view of marriage – including among its supposed cheerleaders.

Look at the reasons they give for supporting marriage – that it promotes stability, unselfishness and self-sacrifice. That was the substance of Michael Gove’s paean of praise for the institution yesterday, as he made the case for extending it to gays.

Similarly, Mr Cameron says marriage is all about commitment and that it’s better for children to be brought up in strong and stable relationships.

All very true. But it misses the point. Tellingly, neither of them identifies what makes marriage a unique institution.

This is that it is the safest way of generating human identity, which is necessarily produced by the conjunction of male and female.

That is why children’s psychological health – despite the heroic efforts of so many lone parents – generally depends on their being brought up by both a mother and father.

That is why marriage is unique, and why it has a unique place in society. And that is why it is socially so destructive to promote the expansion of any sexual relationships outside marriage.

But the Tory leadership never says this. It presents marriage not as the inimitable union of the two components of human identity, but instead merely as a utilitarian contract. Thus for all its weasel words it has made marriage intensely vulnerable.

To ensure the success of its social engineering project, the Left also hijacked the language. ‘Equality’ was twisted into identical outcomes; ‘compassion’ became a fig-leaf for irresponsibility; and ‘liberal’ became a synonym for bullying.

Failing utterly to grasp what was happening, the Cameroons decided to ‘detoxify the Tory brand’ by themselves adopting these corrupted terms and ideas.

Accordingly, they turned themselves into collaborators with those cultural revolutionaries whose aim was to unpick the intricate tapestry of laws, customs and attitudes that had made Britain civilised.

Instead of realising that the supreme task for today’s conservatives is to fight this culture war, they even incorporated the most subversive part of its agenda – the undermining of the traditional family – into their own programme.

It is this betrayal of conservatism which lies at the heart of the Tories’ discontents – and for which they will never be forgiven…..” – Melanie Phillips.

Now just replace the name Cameron with Key, and add Key’s defiance -not winding down the Department of Womens’ Batteries- as Key said he would, and -not changing the discipline law[smacking]-, again like Key said he would, and what do you have – another red to the core Bolshevik !
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March 10, 2013 5:28pm

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