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March 27, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 27 March 2013

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General Debate

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Kea

Scott (1,259) Says:

March 27th, 2013 at 1:15 pm

Interesting. Compare Japans rape figures with one of your Catholic strong holds.
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March 27, 2013 2:22pm
Manolo

The ineffable (and clean) Shame Jones: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8633106/nats-allege-labour-donations-link-to-liu
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March 27, 2013 2:30pm
Pete George

Manolo – you must be wrong, Shane Jones himself said on Marae Investigates on Sunday:

I am very pleased I am vindicated of any wrongdoing, I wish to let everyone know I will no longer be relitigating any of those problems.

Well, Willie is one confused individual, when my leader Shearer announced an investigation into the Bill Liu immigration saga Willie absolutely got stuck in, he rubbished me and trashed me.

I was really angry and upset at that time with him and to this point he still hasn’t apologised to me even though I was cleared of those accusations, but we all know he’s boastful and can yap.

Nothing to see here, move on. Marae Investigates Shane Jones – another handout Hone?

But he may need more than yap to avoid futher litigation.
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March 27, 2013 2:49pm
Manolo

Juliar & Swan, the Aussie version of the deadly and profligate duo Clark/Cullen.
http://www.news.com.au/national-news/julia-gillard-to-leave-australians-in-165-billion-dollars-worth-of-debt-this-term-alone/story-fncynjr2-1226607170108
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March 27, 2013 4:21pm
Lucia Maria

Kea,

Lucia Maria, As a Catholic you really do not want to be throwing stones at the Japanese for commiting cruel acts. The ritual and horrific tortures inflicted on millions by YOUR CHURCH are a matter of historical record. Such is the level of calculated cruelity that even I can only read about it for brief periods at a time and remain disturbed for days.

Lots of black legends out there, especially the ones by people who think the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon. So, it’s very important to know your history in order to separate fact from hysterical fiction.

Your church published a torture manual (Malleus Maleficarum) described as the most vile book ever written.

If you had any decency you would be vomitting with shame.

Really?

In 1490, only 3 years after it was published, the Catholic Church condemned Malleus as false. In 1538 the Spanish Inquisition cautioned its members not to believe everything the Malleus said, even when it presented apparently firm evidence.

Source, Jolly, Raudvere, & Peters(eds.), “Witchcraft and magic in Europe: the Middle Ages”, page 241 (2002) and wikipedia.

Better get a bucket.
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March 27, 2013 4:22pm
kowtow

If you want Japanese cruelty go no further than Nanking 1937.

And idiots in the west keep wanting us to apologise for and feel guilty about a couple of mushroom clouds!

contrarian

do us a favour and stay there.
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March 27, 2013 4:28pm
Kea

Lucia Maria, your empty words are cold comfort to the millions who suffered the hideously cruel tortures at the hands of your church.

But thanks for the [revisionist] history lesson.
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March 27, 2013 4:30pm
Scott

Kea – a couple of points here. First of all you are getting away from the issue of the moral wrongness of 13-year-old prostitution by deflecting the argument onto the perceived wrongs of Christianity over the ages. So you are trying to deflect away from your own argument which is basically that 13-year-old prostitution is okay. You think it’s good or at least okay? As I say that is the difficulty with being an atheist, you have no sense of right or wrong apart from your own feelings about something? Nothing transcendent, nothing outside of yourself. But that is the central problem of life without God, there is nothing to judge whether anything is right or wrong? Who can say whether gay marriage is right or wrong, prostitution is right or wrong? If your only reference is evolution well evolutionary theory doesn’t make much of a moral code? Not many of us would want to based our moral reasoning on the survival of the fittest.

Remember that Christianity does build civilisations. Civilisation that lasts, civilisation like the country we live in. The perceived claims of horrendously cruel torture of millions by Christianity is just bogus. The Inquisition is incredibly overblown by secular historians.

But let me finish with this. The atheist communist Joseph Stalin killed more people in a single week than the Inquisition ever did in two centuries.
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March 27, 2013 4:51pm
Longknives

Look Anna I know you have been through a rough patch- But that DOESN”T MAKE YOU A FUCKING WRITER!

http://www.essentialmums.co.nz/mums-life/8478151/Anna-Guy-You-gotta-laugh

(Bear in mind TV3 are inflicting this person upon us as some kind of ‘Investigative Reporter’)
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March 27, 2013 5:02pm
nasska

Scott

Worthy of note:

1) Joseph Stalin never to the best of my knowledge waffled on about the “love of God” nor did he preach morality. That is not to say that he was other than a barbarian….just that we might expect better of the Mother Church.

2) Christianity like Islam, like Hinduism, like all deisms probably started as a simple answer to infinity & eternity for simple goatherders. Like all organisations it evolved into a power base for the elite.

No religion created a civilisation…..it is merely the glue that gives power to those who perpetuate the myths.
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March 27, 2013 5:10pm
SPC

The poll trends in the USA on same sex marriage.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/26/how-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage-is-changing-and-what-it-means/?hp
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March 27, 2013 5:47pm
UglyTruth

Lots of black legends out there, especially the ones by people who think the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon. So, it’s very important to know your history in order to separate fact from hysterical fiction.

Quite. Lucia Maria, do you have any comment on the abuse of Canadian children by the RCC?

By the year 2000, Canadian churches faced more than 10,000 lawsuits from survivors. Claiming that these suits would bankrupt their institutions, the churches successfully lobbied the government to enact legislation limiting the scope of lawsuits and assuming primary liability for residential school damages.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/03/08/cana-m08.html
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March 27, 2013 5:52pm
Pauleastbay

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10874003

Helen Kelly – what a fucking maggot you are. The mother and wife of this young guy are getting ready to put him in the ground and you you slag try for political gain.

Kelly,your old man was a piece of shit and you are probably worse already.
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March 27, 2013 6:44pm
Lucia Maria

UglyTruth,

That’s from the World Socialist Website, avowed enemy of the Church.

You need to get another source before I will comment.
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March 27, 2013 7:42pm
kowtow

peb

That could be rephrased that a mother and wife are getting ready to put him in the grave and you’re slagging Kelly off cos you don’t like trades unions.

Unions have a place and a voice and rightly speak out about dangerous work conditions.

O Connor is quick off the mark when police get whacked ,is that political gain? Oh sorry that’s not a union it’s an “association” ,so that makes it OK?
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March 27, 2013 7:46pm
nasska

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c6avrnr8mestp18/Easter%201.jpg
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March 27, 2013 7:46pm
UglyTruth

Thanks for the ad hominem, Lucia Maria.

I thought they were fairly mild in their treatment of the matter, they only mentioned the 3000 dead that the Canadian government acknowledged rather than the estimated 50000+ dead that Kevin Arnett spoke of.

Facts are facts regardless of your refusal to address the issue.
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March 27, 2013 7:49pm
UglyTruth

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/320551_615523541795026_1319594468_n.jpg
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March 27, 2013 7:53pm
kowtow

The Japs are so moral they even had ,can you believe it,used school girl undie vending machines.

Maybe that’s what c#ntrarian is doing there,sniff sniff,jerk jerk.

http://www.oddee.com/item_96684.aspx
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March 27, 2013 7:57pm
nasska

Finally I have some good news for the God Botherers…..the following is an answer given to a question that was part of an Auckland University chemistry final exam.

Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle’s Law that gas cools when it expands & heats when it is compressed or some variant.

One student however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell & the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let’s look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that, if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell.

Since there is more than one of these religions & since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth & death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell. Because Boyle’s Law states that in order for the temperature & pressure in Hell to stay constant, the volume of Hell must expand proportionately as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature & pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature & pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Sandra during my freshman year, that “it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you,” & take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number 2 must be true, & thus I am sure that Hell is endothermic & has already frozen over.

The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls & is extinct…leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being – which explains why, last night, Sandra kept shouting “Oh God, I’m coming, Oh God!”
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March 27, 2013 8:00pm
Viking2

Government’s constitutional review sham

On the sham “constitutional review”:
‘..The last thirty years have been characterised by increasingly undemocratic arrogance by both National and Labour governments. (Sadly, the official panel’s terms of reference do not cover any inquiry into how that might be remedied.) There is a saying that if something looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, then it probably is a duck. By the same token, this allegedly impartial inquiry looks, walks and sounds like a jack-up, laying the foundations for a disastrous and irrevocable betrayal of the interests of most New Zealanders…’

Constitutions are fundamentally important documents. Their words are not just meaningless platitudes, but have profound effects. This current review is radical Maoridom’s big chance ~ and our country’s peril. If Maori can establish a guaranteed special constitutional position, they will have the whip hand for ever.

http://www.nzcpr.com/guest329.htm
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March 27, 2013 8:33pm
TheContrarian

No one, least of all me, is saying Japan is perfect but it technological as advanced as any western nation and has a stable populous as well as statistics putting up into first world status. And none of this was informed by Christianity. You do not need religion to act moral or to understand right from wrong and Japan is evidence of this.
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March 27, 2013 8:38pm
Pauleastbay

kowtow @7.46

I’m not a national daily msm newspaper.

If you had actually read the article you would see the mother of the boy was not criticizing the industry but the fuckwits at the herald went and solicited a quote from the slag Kelly. Which they did not need to do.

I loathe trade unions, I loathe apologists for them even more. Union hacks are paid to be dorks, apologists are just sad
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March 27, 2013 8:43pm
Andrei

Lol TheContrarian Japan is dying, half of all Japanese women are over 47 and this age is increasing ie they are getting older
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March 27, 2013 8:45pm
Nostalgia-NZ

PEB don’t get emotional about it, so Helen Kelly is a one trick pony nutter? What else is new.
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March 27, 2013 8:57pm
Pauleastbay

Good point Nostalgia, shes still Helen Kelly every morning when she looks in the mirror, that’s punishment enough.
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March 27, 2013 8:59pm
kowtow

maybe c3ntrarian is trying to hook up with some geriatric geishas.

peb

so slag off the paper ,not Kelly or her Dad,who had nothing to do with anything in this case.
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March 27, 2013 9:00pm
Pauleastbay

I’m sorry Kowtow, that is Helen Kelly sticking her oar in in the article, perhaps you had better read it . If she was a half pie decent human she would have declined to comment under the family and stated she would do a release tomorrow.

Her “dad” was a piece of shit ,an ignorant communist arsehole, who cost companies and individuals much because of his twisted selfish world view. If there was ever a reason to close our borders to immigration it was Pat kelly
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March 27, 2013 9:09pm
UglyTruth

Constitutions are fundamentally important documents. Their words are not just meaningless platitudes, but have profound effects.

Constitutions are not necessarily documents. Law looks to the intent, but the civil system is nothing without paper.
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March 27, 2013 9:14pm
RRM

Logged onto the computer just now, Firefox is open on Youtube… and guess what my 8yo daughter must have searched for and watched while I was making dinner?

Blur’s Song 2.

I feel like I must be doing something right as a parent… <3
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March 27, 2013 9:15pm
Reid

(Bear in mind TV3 are inflicting this person upon us as some kind of ‘Investigative Reporter’)

Yes because she’s so photogenic, you see.

Therefore she must have heaps going on upstairs, because she doesn’t say ah and um very much, when she’s talking.

Plus she has the sympathy vote. Why she could even become TV’s new national mum, just like Judy Bailey was.

Ergo, she’s perfect material, for the viewers, who will just lap her up, because the telly people really know how to make “compelling viewing,” you see.

It’s just a shame that when she did her interview on some TV3 doco before she became a “star,” that her “robot dance” with the kids didn’t become a “national craze,” as Melanie Reid predicted it would. Ah well, it just takes a bit of marketing and then, Judy who? It’s Anna now, all the way. At least, that’s obviously what they hope will happen.

Seriously, I don’t blame her, why not take a $150k+ cheque and make a new career for yourself after what she’s been through? Why not? But crikey.

TV execs must be mental. They have to be. WTF is wrong with them? Don’t they understand anything about anyone? (I’ve just escaped TV’s “The Vote,” since I couldn’t be arsed watching anything I taped on MySky, it’s blathering on downstairs as I type. It’s just lucky I’ve grown out of my angry phase where I’d have taken it out on the telly, in my immense frustration and rage, and broken it, forever…)
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March 27, 2013 9:15pm
TheContrarian

Yes Japan has current birthrate issues. But what does that have to do with morality? Fact remains Japan is a civil first world society that wasn’t based on Christianity. This is a fact. Christianity is not needed in order to inform morality nor build a functioning society which is often said by commentators here. Birth rates are irrelevant to this.
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March 27, 2013 9:45pm
Manolo

Very ungrateful bludgers: http://www.stuff.co.nz/hawkes-bay-sun/news/8476733/Irate-WINZ-patrons-scare-off-retailer
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March 28, 2013 6:51am
Northland Wahine

Your post Manolo made me cackle. They swear and often more as they leave not getting their own way. Apparently being told “what you want and what you need are not the same thing” is being a bitch.
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March 28, 2013 7:00am

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