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March 20, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 March 2013

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General Debate

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nasska

Not the sort of thing you would want to visualise on an empty stomach Dennis.

Still different strokes for different folks…….. 🙂
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March 20, 2013 8:26pm
OneTrack

“labrator (1,210) Says:
March 20th, 2013 at 7:55 pm
So the ‘Citizens’ Initiated Referendum has ~300,000 signatures. The Mighty River Power register of interest is now over 400,000. Who was saying that people don’t want to sell the assets? Chuck Solid Energy on the heap too.

I’ve been wondering also with all of Shearer’s rhetoric is he planning on nationalising Telecom as well as MRP?”

Have they forgotten about Contact Energy? Surely, based on the rhetoric, Contact is an “asset” to the country, hence it should be returned to public ownership immediately, otherwise the world will end. Oh, wait, it hasn’t, …..
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March 20, 2013 8:36pm
OneTrack

“Well, I’m off to shag a sheep now. Don’t tell anyone, it’s illegal. ”

Don’t worry. I am sure there is a private members bill already in the ballot to fix that for you.
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March 20, 2013 8:48pm
Reid

Anyone else concerned that this person is heavily involved in our Constitutional ‘review’??

Fuck no. I mean how can anything possibli go wrong with these “luminaries?”

Emeritus Professor John Burrows QC (Co-chair)
Sir Tipene O’Regan (Co-chair)
Peter Chin
Deborah Coddington
Hon Dr Michael Cullen
Hon John Luxton
Bernice Mene
Dr Leonie Pihama
Hinurewa Poutu
Professor Linda Smith
Peter Tennent
Emeritus Professor Dr Ranginui Walker

Seriously, you wouldn’t think this was a National govt in power at the mo when you look at that composition, would you.

I wonder what they’re going to say? My prediction is, their draft will say that all whitey’s have to leave without any compo, and six months later they’ll compromise by offering, begrudgingly, merely to embed “the principles” (undefined) of Te Tiriti deep inside our shiny brand new constitution that “belongs to all of us.”

I can’t wait.

Not to mention all the koha that all the whiteys have paid for the review, at a time of economic crisis, in return for the “privilege” of being told this is how it’s going to be.
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March 20, 2013 8:51pm
Johnboy

5 out of 12 are obviously treaty partners Reid.

Seems like a fair number in modern Aotearoa! 🙂
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March 20, 2013 8:56pm
Johnboy

There does seem to be a bit of a shortage of Mechanics, Plumbers and Electricians on the reveiw panel Reid.

I guess they are all too busy trying to earn enough to pay their taxes so the panel folk can get the renumeration they are worth! 🙂
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March 20, 2013 8:59pm
Longknives

Reid- While people waste their time getting all worked up over Gay marriage a group of extremists and activists are drafting a shiny new Constitution that will turn New Zealand into the Zimbabwe of the Pacific. This pending new ‘Constitution’ is the biggest threat to New Zealand society since WW2- Ask any lawyer what this all means to the rights of ‘Non-Maori’ New Zealanders..
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March 20, 2013 8:59pm
Johnboy

“Ask any lawyer what this all means to the rights of ‘Non-Maori’ New Zealanders..”

Buy your ammo now? 🙂
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March 20, 2013 9:05pm
thedavincimode

Johnboy

You aren’t thinking of joining Homobaiter_butooerrr!’s Popular Liberation Front are you? Be careful on the camping trips.
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March 20, 2013 9:10pm
Viking2

White privilege vs Maori privilege

On to the vexed subject of white privilege versus Maori privilege. There is a chapter detailing “white privilege” in the treatyist bible “Healing our history – the challenge of the treaty of Waitangi”, mostly written by Robert Consedine. He is the Consedine who conducts Project Waitangi workshops around the country. These workshops use psychodrama, an action method often used as a psychotherapy, in which clients use spontaneous dramatization, role playing and dramatic self-presentation to investigate and gain insight, in this case, into how wicked and racist the white coloniser has been. This column summarises Consedine’s “white privilege” arguments and uses Consedine’s sub-heads to see whether there is Maori privilege.

http://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/mike-butler-white-privilege-vs-maori.html
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March 20, 2013 9:12pm
Johnboy

Ooh you are a card Leonardo. I’ve never camped in my life.
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March 20, 2013 9:14pm
Reid

There does seem to be a bit of a shortage of Mechanics, Plumbers and Electricians on the reveiw panel Reid.

You see, they’re not “advanced thinkers” Johnboy. All they know how to do is build actual stuff that really works and doesn’t fall over or kill anyone. That’s clearly not considered to be a relevant skill here.

This pending new ‘Constitution’ is the biggest threat to New Zealand society since WW2- Ask any lawyer what this all means to the rights of ‘Non-Maori’ New Zealanders..

If [and when] the [undefined] “principles” of Te Tiriti are proposed to become embedded into the constitution, I predict Susan Devoy might regret taking on her new role.

But if you were a lawyer, you’d love it, wouldn’t you. I mean….

“but your Honour, your decision bweaches the [just recently defined today which I just thought of] pwinciples of Te Tiwiti and my client not only deserves home detention but s/he deserves a few $mill as well because they’re a victim, and if you don’t agwee, why I’ll just [use more of whitey’s free money to] take this to the SC, because they listen to this sort of thing all the time, these days, day in and day out, forget the other stuff like commerce whatnots, that’s not important, this is constitutional…”
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March 20, 2013 9:14pm
Dennis Horne

Seriously guys, didn’t you learn anything about NZ history from James Embellich before he became professor at Oxford?
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March 20, 2013 9:17pm
Viking2

The changes are equally as dramatic in the newspaper industry. As readers switch from print to on-line editions, advertisers are looking for other ways to promote their businesses. The fall in revenue has caused newspapers to shed staff and cuts costs. The adverse effects of this dramatic downsizing of the print media industry are flowing onto paper mills, forestry, transport, and service towns.

The changes to democracy are equally profound – but more on that later.

This week’s NZCPR Guest Commentator is Karl du Fresne, a freelance journalist and former Editor of the Dominion newspaper. Karl has been following developments in the newspaper industry closely, and in his article Newspapers lose readers and revenue, examines the nature of the crisis:

“Dismal financial results reported recently by the two big newspaper groups, APN News and Media and Fairfax Media, confirmed what had long been obvious: that the newspaper industry is reeling from the impact of the internet. Both companies are struggling with high debt and declining revenue. Like newspaper publishers worldwide, they are dealing with a crisis of a magnitude never before encountered and sometimes give the impression of having no clue what to do next. The industry is bleeding and morale could hardly be described as buoyant.”

Karl believes that the Australian ownership of most of our newspapers has significantly contributed to the decline, but he also blames the ‘feminisation’ of media content. “Before the feminist lynch mobs assemble, I should explain … it’s not female journalists I’m concerned about – far from it – but the creeping feminisation of newspaper content. By this I mean the increasing proportion of newspaper space devoted to ‘soft’ topics – fluffy human interest stories, gossipy items and lifestyle-oriented content better suited to women’s magazines. Some call it latté journalism. In metropolitan papers especially, café reviews and profiles of celebrity chefs, fashion designers, baristas and TV personalities have displaced investigative reporting and traditional ‘hard’ news about events and issues of importance.” To read Karl’s excellent analysis, click HERE.

The consequence of this trend from investigation to fluff is far reaching. The free press has a crucial role to play in democratic affairs. As the Fourth Estate, the media should stand as the fourth pillar of a free democracy – alongside the Executive, Parliament, and the Judiciary – acting not only as a watchdog over government, but as a fearless defender of free speech.

But the problem is that as resources that once provided serious in-depth investigative journalism are re-directed into soft entertainment, the ability of mainstream media to fulfil its crucial Fourth Estate role is being compromised. One only needs to look at the changes in the crucial post-news 7pm slot at our state television broadcaster TVNZ to see the trend, as the highly regarded investigative Holmes Show morphed into the ‘lighter’ Closeup, which has now abandoned all pretence at serious investigation to become an unashamedly fluffy ‘Seven Sharp’.

These changes are leaving the public increasingly exposed to the spin of vested interest groups masquerading as news.

NZCPR reader Robin Grieve has taken exception to one such instance of this by lodging a complaint to TVNZ for incorporating Treaty propaganda into their Waitangi Day news coverage. The complaint involves the usage of the Treaty activists’ line that the Treaty of Waitangi is the Nation’s ‘founding document’ by a news reader who stated in her introduction: “… from the Treaty Grounds at Waitangi where the Nation’s founding document was first signed 173 years ago”.

In his letter Robin made the case that the Treaty is not the Nation’s founding document, but was simply an agreement between the British Government and the natives of New Zealand. He argues that it was the 1852 New Zealand Constitution Act that gave the country nationhood status through the right of self government and that it is this Act that should be described as our ‘founding document’.

Robin also asserted that the newsreader was promoting misinformation at a crucial time when political activists are pushing for a Treaty of Waitangi constitution: “The news reader’s words will elevate the Treaty in the minds of people who have not researched the facts beyond what it is. There is also debate over the importance of the Treaty and its significance and whether it should be included in any constitution. Opinions vary and that is to be expected and news readers should play no role in shaping people’s opinions other than in presenting facts on which they can base them.”

In their reply, the Complaints Committee of TVNZ stated that they could not identify any errors of fact: “The Treaty of Waitangi is widely accepted and known as the founding document of New Zealand and it is therefore accurate to refer to it in this way in the ONE News item.”

The issue Robin has highlighted, of course, is that while something may be ‘widely accepted’ it may not in fact be correct – especially where that acceptance has been driven by a vested interest group with a political agenda and parroted by a media that is failing to uphold its responsibilities as the Fourth Estate.

Robin has yet to decide whether he wants to take this further and appeal to the Broadcasting Standards Authority. The full complaint and response from TVNZ can be found on Breaking Views HERE – Robin would welcome any constructive suggestions (through the blog comments) for countering the Treaty propaganda machine, which seems to have public broadcasters in its grip!

All of this brings to mind The Big Lie, a propaganda technique coined by Adolf Hitler and described in his 1925 book Mein Kampf, that if a lie, so ‘colossal’ that no one would believe that someone ‘could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously’ is repeated often enough, people will eventually come to believe it. The version, “If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth” was later attributed to his Propaganda Minister, Joseph Goebbels.

That technique is certainly being used by Treaty activists, and New Zealanders like Robin Grieve, who are challenging such misinformation, should be encouraged.

While Karl du Fresne has pointed out the impact of the IT revolution on the media, the implications go much wider – to the heart of democracy itself.

In Italy last month, the political establishment was stunned to find that a brand new party run by a comedian had secured more votes than any of them. The movement won more than 8 million protest voters, a success seen by local analysts as a signal that Italians are deeply dissatisfied with the country’s political class. With a tsunami-like effect, Beppe Grillo’s Five Star Movement swept away competitors, winning 25.5 percent of the votes.

The success of the Five Star Movement can be attributed to the Internet. Founded by Mr Grillo through his blog in 2009, the movement gathered momentum through a social media campaign that promoted the idea that politics belongs to everyone. He confronted the political ruling class head on and tapped into the mood of public discontent that was looking for a way to demand more responsive government. The IT revolution enabled Grillo to communicate directly that mood for change.

How all of this plays out in Italy is anyone’s guess, but what it does signal is that a profound change is now taking root in democracy itself and that New Zealand is not immune from its effects.

The reality is that here at home, MMP has forced the two major mainstream parties to have to rely on some of the more radical minor parties for coalition support in order to form a government . To the dismay of centre-right voters, National has been pushing the Maori Party’s Treaty supremacist agenda onto the country, while under Labour, the Greens’ environmental extremism was forced into law. Maybe it is now time for a new way.

Using the power of the Internet, perhaps the time is right for a No Confidence Movement to be formed to return democracy to citizens. A movement that is neither left nor right but committed to some basic principles: respect for equal rights, for the rule of law, for private property rights, for community – economic, social, cultural and environmental – wellbeing, and for politicians to become the true servants of the people.

Again, thanks to the Internet, a public referendum process could be established that would enable citizens to state their preferences on the bills in front of Parliament. If Switzerland is anything to go by, the public would be eager to embrace the opportunity to have their voices reflected directly in the key public policy decisions of the day.

Unfortunately in New Zealand establishment politics is moving further away from citizens democracy. We now have the unacceptable situation where the government is allowing a radical coalition partner to move the country towards a race-based constitution, that would enshrine the privilege of one racial group over all others. That the National Party would go along with such an abhorant and unbridled power grab is an indictment on our democracy and a sad reflection of the arrogance of the political class. This is especially the case when it is realised the politicians have left the way open for the final shape of any new constitution to be determined by a vote in Parliament rather than through a public referendum process.

The IT revolution has handed the public the power to reinstate a citizens democracy. But is New Zealand ready for it? Is it time for those with no confidence in the establishment to support a movement designed to shake up New Zealand politics by giving the the people a direct say in the affairs of government? If you believe that time has come then please answer ‘Yes’ in the poll.

THIS WEEK’S POLL ASKS:
Do you think there is a place for a citizens democracy party in New Zealand?
Click HERE to vote

*Read this week’s poll comments daily HERE

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1342
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March 20, 2013 9:17pm
Johnboy

Do you think it is time for “The (middle class) Workers Revolutionary Party” to assume power Reid.

Why should the filthy rich, students, activists and peasants get to have fun ruling the place?

Why can’t we boring taxpayers seize the reins of power for once? 🙂
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March 20, 2013 9:20pm
Viking2

http://www.nzcpr.com/

What we shell out for Maori.

http://treatygate.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/maori-privilege-vote-maori-2012-13.png
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March 20, 2013 9:22pm
labrator

@viking2 TL;DR
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March 20, 2013 9:23pm
Reid

Why can’t we boring taxpayers seize the reins of power for once?

We can if we think we can, Johnboy.

Besides, if they object, we can shell the Beehive from the Wainui hills and they’ll never know where it’s coming from, until they get some of those Korean radar-back-tracker things, which would take ages to arrive.

Alternatively we can pretend the planet is going to blow up due to global warming and, instead of paying our taxes, use them to build a spaceship so they can all “escape” to Mars, which, we’ve explained, will be fully terraformed, by the time they arrive.
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March 20, 2013 9:29pm
Johnboy

But it’s all worth it to see their happy little fat bodies quivering as they stamp their feet, roll their eyes, wave their spears and poke their little (pink) tongues out at you V2! 🙂
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March 20, 2013 9:30pm
Johnboy

Perhaps we should all just liquidate our assets and go for a cruise for a year or ten and let the pollies balance the budget and sort out who supports them among the bottom feeders/ tangata whenua! Now that would be fun to watch! 🙂
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March 20, 2013 9:38pm
Reid

I prefer the Mars option Johnboy. It’s been done before, as a joke telly show in the 80’s. But now things have changed and we normies could really use something like that, to give us some relief.

Either that or just stop the modern-day telephone cleaners and hairdressers from holding all these fucking mental constitutional reviews and all the other shit that gives we normies no other alternative but to put make-believe into action. After all, that’s what they’re doing to us, we just do it to them, for a change.
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March 20, 2013 9:53pm
KevinH

Why can’t we boring taxpayers seize the reins of power for once?

That’s what elections are for, if you want a go stand up and be counted. Nutcases like John Ansell and his cohorts Garret and CPR have had their day and were found out to be phonies.
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March 20, 2013 10:04pm
Johnboy

If they spent more time in the bath perhaps it would reduce their urge to make decisions on our behalf. 🙂
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March 20, 2013 10:09pm
Griff

Nutcase.

The head of Maori studies at Auckland University, Margaret Mutu, says the new Race Relations Commissioner has to acknowledge what she describes as racism against Maori.
Government departments are extremely difficult for Maori to deal with,” Professor Mutu says, “because of the level of institutionalised racism that exists in all of them

Just like that hate fulled woman at the meeting house.
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March 20, 2013 10:13pm
Dennis Horne

If it’s so awful being a Maori why do they pretend to be Maoris? With one g-g-grandfather Scottish, should I wear a kilt and blame everyone else for my problems and inadequacies?
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March 20, 2013 10:54pm
Left Right and Centre

Why is it wine and beer week at pak n save?

Wine and beer week?

Does anyone need a wine and beer week?

Every week is already wine and beer week for a lot of people. What’s special about a particular week and declaring that it’s wine and beer week at a supermarket? What does that mean?

The supermarket loves wine and beer… and now it’s wine and beer ‘week’?

I hate it myself. I like alcohol being available in supermarkets but I’d get rid of the shameless full-on exploitation of it to get people in the shop.

And I hate the horrible accent of the voiceover used for the pak n save ads. I heard the dick say ‘it’s wine and beer week at pak n save’ before I could grab the remote and turn it off. You’d have to be a gormless turd to like those ads or any of 99.9% of ads ad for that matter.
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March 20, 2013 11:01pm
Left Right and Centre

cynical use of alcohol as a promotional tool. I wonder what that does to their metrics? Increase turnover? Profit?
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March 20, 2013 11:04pm
Left Right and Centre

Dennis Horne (793)
March 20th, 2013 at 10:54 pm

white people invaded their country and took possession of their land. Game over. Who cares what they think?
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March 20, 2013 11:06pm
Dennis Horne

@Left Right Out. Too much of a good thing is absolutely wonderful – Mae West?
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March 20, 2013 11:07pm
Left Right and Centre

Dennis Horne (794)
March 20th, 2013 at 11:07 pm

If that good thing is this generally brilliant country ruined only by the bottom 30% lower classes then yes.
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March 20, 2013 11:33pm
Left Right and Centre

Is there anything more pathetic looking than the Bunnings workers wearing their noddy arse green aprons?

Makes them look like complete and utter hopeless twats. The poor wankers.
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March 21, 2013 12:07am
Manolo

Another battle for the anti-American Messiah: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/82ea4e24-8fed-11e2-9239-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2O6IKsgRn
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March 21, 2013 6:05am
thedavincimode

LRC

I’m sure that the people who are required to wear those aprons whilst working for a living will be very appreciative of your empathy and insight and that your comments will only enhance their self-esteem.

Is this the first in a series of comments critiquing corporate attire? It’s such a worthwhile topic; perhaps you should give it the prominence it deserves and set up your own web-site to host it. But be careful not to allow any tools to make gratuitously insulting remarks about people that haven’t done harm to anyone.
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March 21, 2013 7:33am

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