General Debate 15 March 2013

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joana

Pure green NZ.
I don’t think so. All those cows in the North Island are eating a palm oil product from Malaysia. Has anyone flown over Singapore , Malaysia , Indonesia lately? How much rain forest is left?..Not much. Many involved in the palm oil trade are greedy , unethical , crooks yet NZ and NZers are happy to deal with them. Pity about the Orang Utans , the most fabulous creatures on earth , losing their habitat.
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March 15, 2013 8:31am
Keeping Stock

Is Winston Peters the right person to be bleating via social media about somebody else paying something back? The hypocrisy of the man knows no bounds.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/who-should-pay-who-back-mr-peters.html
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March 15, 2013 8:35am
iMP

Fascinating Factoid. Almost as many Catholics in world as Chinese.

1.3 billion Chinese
1.2 billion Catholics.

That’s a lot of red.
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March 15, 2013 8:47am
Yvette

New Pope Francis 1, in 2010, apparently described gay adoption as “discrimination against children.”
Interesting, considering the catch cry of same sex marriage supporters is ‘equality’ and that the act will rectify ‘discrimination’

Liberté, fraternité, égalité 🙂
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March 15, 2013 8:54am
Keeping Stock

How many Chinese Catholics are there iMP?
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March 15, 2013 8:55am
peterwn

If the directors of Solid Energy were not comfortable with meeting shareholder’s aspirations (ie borrow more and pay bigger dividends) they should have told the shareholder so (even if it meant they got the boot) or have resigned. If they were comfortable at the time they should ‘fess up and not publically kick the shareholder in the teeth.
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March 15, 2013 8:55am
Ed Snack

Joana, that’s a Greens talking point, and as such it is untrue by definition. The feedstock used in NZ is the leftover kernel, left over after the oil which is the major product, has been extracted. If this remainder can’t be sold it is simply dumped.

Palm oil plantations have expanded significantly because of another foolish and stupid “green” idea, biofuels from palm oil. Policies that have promoted “biodiesel” are directly responsible for the expansion and the subsequent loss of habitat. Place the blame where it is deserved, on the various governments and especially on the organizations promoting biofuels.
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March 15, 2013 9:01am
iMP

KStock: Christian church estimated at 80 million in China, but hard to gauge and harder to quantify by denom.
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March 15, 2013 9:06am
Ryan Sproull

Palm oil plantations have expanded significantly because of another foolish and stupid “green” idea, biofuels from palm oil. Policies that have promoted “biodiesel” are directly responsible for the expansion and the subsequent loss of habitat. Place the blame where it is deserved, on the various governments and especially on the organizations promoting biofuels.

It’s also meant that land previously used for providing food for local communities in many poor countries has been converted to biofuel production.
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March 15, 2013 9:08am
Pete George

“1.3 billion Chinese”

That’s about how many people live in China, most of them will be Chinese. But there will also be Chinese populations in other countries, including New Zealand.

Our 2006 census showed Chinese make up about 3% of the New Zealand population, it may have increased since then. Total Asian population is about 9-10%.
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March 15, 2013 9:12am
axeman

Climategate 3.0 is out …. FOIA 2013: the password

Many terrible things have resulted from the great climate scam – the debasement of the scientific method, the corruption, the rent-seeking, the greed, the lies, the blighted careers, the malfeasance, the dissemination of ignorance, the waste, the environmental damage – but the worst thing by far is the human misery it has engendered.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100206888/climategate-foia-the-man-who-saved-the-world/
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March 15, 2013 9:19am
hinamanu

American citizens are fair game

Vicki Divoll, a former general counsel to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and former deputy legal adviser to the C.I.A.’s Counterterrorism Center, and Vincent Warren, Executive Director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, talk to Bill Moyers about legal, ethical, and judicial issues involved in U.S. unmanned drone attacks and whom they target. Warren and Divoll express their concern over U.S. citizens placed on the “hit list,” as well as an alarming lack of policy disclosure by the government.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/war-crimes-1/us-as-murder-inc-.html
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March 15, 2013 9:21am
hinamanu

“Our 2006 census showed Chinese make up about 3% of the New Zealand population, it may have increased since then. Total Asian population is about 9-10%.”

Wasn’t there an Asian cap in NZ
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March 15, 2013 9:22am
hinamanu

“KStock: Christian church estimated at 80 million in China, but hard to gauge and harder to quantify by denom.”

Where there’s persecution there’s churches

Notice in Japan there is a tiny number of Christian churches
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March 15, 2013 9:24am
Kea

Many terrible things have resulted from the great climate scam – the debasement of the scientific method, the corruption, the rent-seeking, the greed, the lies, the blighted careers, the malfeasance, the dissemination of ignorance, the waste, the environmental damage – but the worst thing by far is the human misery it has engendered.

Agreed. We often become too accademic on this topic. The warmists are doing real harm and it effects billions of lives.
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March 15, 2013 9:26am
Andrei

That’s about how many people live in China, most of them will be Chinese.

I love how Pete George’s pontifications so very often reveal his ignorance – “Chinese” girl from Turpan
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March 15, 2013 9:30am
Longknives

Awesome!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/8429267/Hand-of-God-picked-the-pope-Maradona
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March 15, 2013 9:38am
BeaB

After Y2K and bird flu, I wonder if anyone will tally up the billions spent worldwide on nutty Green ideas – biofuels, windfarms, carbon taxes, desalination plants etc etc. Even the poor old NZ taxpayer is hit in the pocket over and over again by Green nonsense.

The Greens are Social Credit without the grey shoes.
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March 15, 2013 9:38am
Griff

A journalist who describes him self thus
X is a writer, journalist and broadcaster who is right about everything
X who writes brilliant books and brilliant articles, and is really great on TV, radio and the internet too. You’ll love him. You’ll want to read his stuff, buy his book and music recommendations;
Yet
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/11/met-office-james-delingpole

The Expert on every thing who says he is always right. Yet admits to not having read a single peer reviewed paper on his subject. 😆 wingnuts
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March 15, 2013 10:14am
RightNow

So Delingpole isn’t big on fiction, so what?

Even here in NZ we could see how laughable the Met Office forecasts were, and that their inbuilt bias about global warming led them to a cock-up that caused huge disruptions in the UK.

And children just weren’t going to know what snow was!
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March 15, 2013 10:16am
Manolo

What? http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/14/bill-gates-some-days-i-wish-we-had-a-system-like-the-uk-to-give-obama-more-power-video/
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March 15, 2013 10:34am
Fletch

A photograph of the new Pope Francis back in 2010 kissing the feet of 12 AIDS sufferers. LINK

He has a special love for the poor and suffering.

The [then] Cardinal lived very simply in an apartment in Argentina, where he took care of a handicapped Jesuit, cooked for himself and rode the bus to work.
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March 15, 2013 10:39am
iMP

Cameron Slater and I have a wee bible study love-in with Derek’s guidance.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/gay-jesus-ungay-christians-at-whale
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March 15, 2013 10:41am
Pete George

A photograph of the new Pope Francis back in 2010 kissing the feet of 12 AIDS sufferers.

I realise that may have some strong symbolism for some people but I find feet kissing gross. I’d feel insulted and demeaning if someone tried to kiss my feet.
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March 15, 2013 10:43am
Manolo

Other Cameron waffles: http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8626599/uk-press-talks-collapse-editor-arrested
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March 15, 2013 10:47am
Fletch

PG, you’re in good company then. Peter said pretty much the same when Jesus washed and dried the feet of the Apostles.

So during the meal Jesus got up, removed his outer garment, and wrapped a towel around his waist. 5 He put some water into a large bowl. Then he began washing his disciples’ feet and drying them with the towel he was wearing.

6 But when he came to Simon Peter, that disciple asked, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”

7 Jesus answered, “You don’t really know what I am doing, but later you will understand.”

8 “You will never wash my feet!” Peter replied.

“If I don’t wash you,” Jesus told him, “you don’t really belong to me.”

9 Peter said, “Lord, don’t wash just my feet. Wash my hands and my head.”

[…]

After Jesus had washed his disciples’ feet and had put his outer garment back on, he sat down again.[b] Then he said:

Do you understand what I have done? 13 You call me your teacher and Lord, and you should, because that is who I am. 14 And if your Lord and teacher has washed your feet, you should do the same for each other. 15 I have set the example, and you should do for each other exactly what I have done for you. 16 I tell you for certain that servants are not greater than their master, and messengers are not greater than the one who sent them. 17 You know these things, and God will bless you, if you do them.
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March 15, 2013 10:54am
hinamanu

Rand Paul: GOP is ‘stale and moss-covered’

Republican Sen. Rand Paul, who’s become somewhat of a political celebrity after his nearly 13-hour filibuster last week, took the opportunity to critique his own party Thursday while speaking before a large crowd of conservatives.

“The GOP of old has grown stale and moss-covered,” the Kentucky senator said at the Conservative Political Action Conference. “I don’t think we need to name any names, do we? Our party is encumbered by an inconsistent approach to freedom. The new GOP will need to embrace liberty in both the economic and the personal sphere.”

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/14/rand-paul-gop-is-stale-and-moss-covered/comment-page-1/
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March 15, 2013 10:59am
thedavincimode

I’d feel insulted and demeaning if someone tried to kiss my feet.

Don’t lose too much sleep over the prospect.
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March 15, 2013 11:12am
Pete George

Labour-Greens have timed their manufacturing crisis campaign well.

nzherald Business ‏@nzheraldbiz
NZ manufacturing expands for third month

New Zealand manufacturing expanded for a third month to reach the highest level in a year in February, driven by an accelerating pace of production and new orders.

BNZ-Business New Zealand Performance of Manufacturing Index rose 1.1 points to 56.3, the highest since February 2012. All five of the seasonally adjusted diffusion indexes expanded last month.

Liam Dann ‏@liamdann
Performance of Manufacturing Index doesn’t indicate a general crisis for the sector, which is not to say some companies aren’t struggling
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March 15, 2013 11:45am
David Garrett

Clearly you have never had your toes sucked Pete…Mind you, I’m not sure I’d be too keen on some old Cardinal doing it…
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March 15, 2013 11:56am
graham

Wasn’t Sarah Ferguson, Duchess of York, snapped having her toes sucked some years back? I vaguely recall such an incident, and further recall that my wife and I looked at each other and went, “Eww”.

After a day out in the garden, feet in the gummies, sweat, stinky socks, the inevitable sawdust down the front of the boots from the building projects, it would have to be a very brave (or perverted) woman who would want to get anywhere near my feet …
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March 15, 2013 12:14pm
Manolo

davinci will love it! http://cleo.msn.co.nz/cleonews/8626611/michelle-obama-gets-second-vogue-cover
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March 15, 2013 12:14pm
RightNow

“Union members at the New Zealand Qualifications Authority are walking off the job today, saying the Government department is failing to negotiate fairly in pay talks.

The 230 staff – about 55 per cent of the NZQA work force…”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8430255/NZQA-staff-walk-off-the-job

Seems NZQA doesn’t need that many staff. I’d say they could do what they do with about 45% of the employees they have.

Friday afternoon seems like a good time to have a walk out.

“NZQA chief executive Karen Poutasi said there were few issues remaining to be settled and the authority was due back at the negotiating table with the PSA on Monday and again on March 22.

Poutasi said NZQA was fully committed to the bargaining process and had arranged a mediator to help during talks.

“We continue to negotiate in good faith towards settlement of a new Collective Agreement. The PSA are aware of this and it is disappointing that they have chosen to escalate issues at this time,” Poutasi said.”

Friday afternoon off, hope they’re not getting paid for it.
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March 15, 2013 12:18pm
ex-golfer

@ RightNow

Funny they should time their walk out at 2pm on a Friday afternoon. How nice.
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March 15, 2013 12:20pm
Pete George

DG – maybe I wasn’t clear, I don’t rule that out, I should have said I don’t like the idea of a stranger – particularly an old male stranger – kissing my feet. I wouldn’t be too fussed by most friends or family doing it either for that matter.

I have witnessed toe sucking once, a male was the sucker but I can’t remember who or what the suckee was, it was in a commune in 1972. That seemed gross too, bare feet in a not particularly clean environment.
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March 15, 2013 12:23pm
Weihana

Manolo (9,250) Says:
March 15th, 2013 at 10:34 am

What? http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/14/bill-gates-some-days-i-wish-we-had-a-system-like-the-uk-to-give-obama-more-power-video/

Some of the comments on this website are hilarious.

donlet says:

“Just because he knows about producing software, doesn’t mean he knows crap about anything else. As his ignorant statement proves.”

Yes, the founder of the world’s largest software producer and one of the largest companies in the world is an ignorant fool who knows nothing about business or anything beyond writing some code.

Meanwhile William556 wonders:

And will Bill still love Obama if Obama uses that power to nationalize Microsoft because of some “internet emergency”? Probably not.

Right, because everything in Britain is nationalized… indeed we have basically the same system and as we can see John Key is nationalizing everything in sight!

jdc0101 declares:

I love the intelligence of these people
I really do admire them sometimes..

But then i see stuff like this

and i shake my head and am GLAD
i never went to college..

I unlike all liberals went through the school of hard knock
and i graduated with a A (meaning i got the stuffings) knocked out of me
Its called LIFE..

Something liberals cant deal with..

Perhaps he missed the part where Gates dropped out of college to start one of the world’s biggest companies. Of course how could that compare to the “school of hard knocks”.

1776freedom then produces an ironic tirade of abuse:

Hey Billy you don’t like our system even though you made billions then get the fluck out. Take your money, your company, you, your mate and get lost you flucking animal. Fluck you. You made flucking billions of dollars under this system of gov’t and then turn around and criticize it.

Yes how dare someone criticize the US system of government. Criticism is strictly not allowed in the land of the “free”.

Junie3 then promises:

Will never buy another microsoft product or software…

Which basically sums up the conservative mindset these days. Anything related to Obama is the devil’s work and anyone who dares support Obama on anything (Chris Christie, Bill Gates et al) becomes a traitor to be demonized and cast out of the bubble.
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March 15, 2013 12:28pm
graham

Good news story for the day – two men break into a Dutch tourist’s campervan in Matauri Bay late at night, the 67-year-old guy wrestles a softball bat off one of them and whacks him with it.

Police are looking for the men, and say one of them would be sporting a fairly decent bruise or cut to his head.

Good. Hope it hurts like hell.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8429949/Tourist-takes-bat-to-attacker
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March 15, 2013 12:33pm
Paul G. Buchanan

Longknives@9:38AM:

These fellows claim to have a depiction of how things really went down:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=349643975155217&set=a.190140617772221.39598.189486191170997&type=1&theater
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March 15, 2013 12:36pm
Griff

http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=91227&sitesection=catholiconline&VID=24440510
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March 15, 2013 12:47pm
hinamanu

Keiser Report: Walmart Prison

In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss ripple effects and sinkholes in the ‘just in time poverty’ model in which Walmart’s empty shelves could be turned into ‘Love Hotels’ for Japanese tourists. In the second half of the show, Max Keiser talks to Gail ‘The Actuary’ Tverberg of OurFiniteWorld.com about peak credit and the sinkholes of ever increasing capital required to just maintain our economies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwvlFywk5UY
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March 15, 2013 1:00pm
Kea

Griff (4,478) Says:
March 15th, 2013 at 12:47 pm
http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=91227&sitesection=catholiconline&VID=24440510

Cheers Griff. Here is some non-fiction for those who want facts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtevF4B4RtQ
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March 15, 2013 1:12pm
Kea

Griff, your link is hilarious. Thanks for making my day 🙂

Apparently the “deniers” are paid off to the tune of $120 million. While overlooking the TRILLIONS that finance the warmists.

Even it we accepted the conspiracy theories of the warmists, it only proves how poorly financed objective climate science is. The real money is in promoting AGW, not in telling the truth.
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March 15, 2013 1:28pm
Griff

The warmists
Who are these mysterious warmists kea?
All major scientific bodies?
The Pentagon?
The meteorological society’s of the western world?
The world bank?
The local council?
The climate scientists?
The Un?
the insurance industry?
Does it ever seem like the whole world is against you?
😆

Who is funding the warmists?
Mostly concerned governments.

Who has most to gain if we believe this campaign of denial of the robust science behind global warming?

Energy extraction industry billionaires, Those funding the two trusts.
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March 15, 2013 1:56pm
Manolo

To hell with these control-freaks, totalitarians and fast-food nazis: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10871344

Yes, Dr Robyn Toomath, you can get fucked!
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March 15, 2013 2:11pm
nasska

Griff

You’re getting desperate!

All major scientific bodies?…..Those “independent” bodies addicted to money extracted from taxpayers by wastrel gummints who want to be seen to be “doing something”.

The Pentagon?…..Couldn’t even lie convincingly about 911 (eg claims that an airliner fitted into a small hole in the side of the Pentagon building. Wouldn’t know truth if it went up them. Disregard.

The meteorological society’s of the western world?….funded by (see first answer)

The world bank?…..born to rule us all. AGW would round up the sheep for them.

The local council?…..Can you imagine such power hungry feather bedders passing up ANY opportunity to increase their bureaucratic fiefdom?

The climate scientists?….. Those staffing the discredited scientific bodies? When AGW dies its well deserved death these con artists will be on welfare.

The Un?….aka the most corrupt institution to plague our planet.

the insurance industry?…..can anyone imagine these leaches passing up an opportunity to ratchet premiums & improve profits? If so see me for a real deal I have going on a bridge.

In short, you have provided a list of modern day snake oil manufacturers & salesmen. Not one group deserve a tenth of the respect & trust we have for used car sales people & fortune tellers.

Next truckload of crap to be debunked awaited. 🙂
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March 15, 2013 2:16pm
Griff

And by some leap of logic the oil bastards are any better.
😆
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March 15, 2013 2:32pm
RightNow

Parody that writes itself:

Who are these mysterious warmists kea?
All major scientific bodies?
The Pentagon?
The meteorological society’s of the western world?
The world bank?
The local council?
The climate scientists?
The Un?
the insurance industry?
Does it ever seem like the whole world is against you?

Who is funding the warmists?
Mostly concerned governments.

In other words, all the above are paid by the taxpayers (although the insurance industry also profit through increased premiums). What happens if it is deemed the cause is not predominantly GHG emissions, and/or that temperatures will not rise as high as purported. No need to call it a conspiracy when greed is the simple explanation.
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March 15, 2013 2:36pm
Manolo

Oh, oh. The whorish Dunne, P.G.’s greatest hero, could be in trouble: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8626846/car-park-tax-could-be-doomed
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March 15, 2013 5:31pm
Kea

Griff (4,480) Says:
March 15th, 2013 at 2:32 pm
And by some leap of logic the oil bastards are any better.

It can hardly be overstated how much those bastards have lifted our standard of living, life expectancy, infant mortality and advanced mankind.

I invite you to remove all the products, direct and indirect, from you and your loved ones lives, that are connected to those bastards. Then you may appreciate how ignorant and narrow your views are.

A bit of honesty would go a long way here Griff. If you long for a more primitive and simple existence, then just say so. There is no need to abuse the rest of us for not buying into AGW. I am a greeny at heart and share many environmental concerns, but find myself attacking the green movement due to their political motivations, in order to gain balance.
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March 15, 2013 5:34pm
Viking2

Houston and Municipal Utility Districts
Luke Malpass | Research Fellow | luke.malpass@nzinitiative.org.nz
Rose PattersonDriving around Houston, Texas, several things strike you immediately: the number of pickup trucks, the proliferation of ‘Nobama’ bumper stickers, and the widest freeways.

Houston is in many ways a typical post-War city. It developed rapidly with the availability of air conditioning and a booming economy. From 2000 to 2010, the greater Houston metro area grew by a staggering 1.2 million people.

With Houston growing so quickly (its population increased from 2,400 in 1850 to 5 million today), especially since World War II, it has been necessary to house all the extra people moving in, at an affordable price. New and innovative ways to finance infrastructure and housing developments were needed. Enter the Municipal Utility District (MUD).

An MUD is statutory authority or water district that has a board of directors, and is responsible for providing water service to its residents who pay an ad valorem tax to finance it. Developments are typically around 400 to 500 acres (202 hectares), although some are much larger, up to 12,000 acres.

These developments are done in stages; typically after the first stage, when enough value has been created, the MUD can issue bonds against that value (typically 20 years) to finance the rest of the development. To recoup the investment, it can charge a tax of up to $1.50 per $100 of value in two parts: a debt servicing charge and an operational charge (to run the utility). For a house worth $300,000 this means $4,500 a year. However, over time as the debt is retired, this component reduces; for residents in some MUDs, the charge for services is as low as 17c per $100 of value: a utility tax rate of 0.17%. For the same house worth $300,000, this is $510 per year.

And because the residents essentially own the MUD, there is every incentive to keep prices down and service quality up.

This model has obvious advantages. First, the value of the infrastructure is not folded into the house cost and subsequently passed on at sale. Second, it means those who have built the infrastructure have also paid for it. Third, as developments grow, the MUD can decide its own future, whether it puts in public amenities such as parks and pools. Because there is no zoning, a great diversity of MUDs exist: from high-end master-planned communities to complete starter-home areas.

For those concerned with costs of growth in New Zealand, this is a model well worth looking at.

View this newsletter as a webpage.
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March 15, 2013 5:42pm
Viking2

RightNow (5,080) Says:
March 15th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

“Union members at the New Zealand Qualifications Authority are walking off the job today, saying the Government department is failing to negotiate fairly in pay talks.

The 230 staff – about 55 per cent of the NZQA work force…”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8430255/NZQA-staff-walk-off-the-job

Seems NZQA doesn’t need that many staff. I’d say they could do what they do with about 45% of the employees they have.

Friday afternoon seems like a good time to have a walk out.

“NZQA chief executive Karen Poutasi said there were few issues remaining to be settled and the authority was due back at the negotiating table with the PSA on Monday and again on March 22.

Poutasi said NZQA was fully committed to the bargaining process and had arranged a mediator to help during talks.

“We continue to negotiate in good faith towards settlement of a new Collective Agreement. The PSA are aware of this and it is disappointing that they have chosen to escalate issues at this time,” Poutasi said.”

Friday afternoon off, hope they’re not getting paid for it.

——————-

“NZQA chief executive Karen Poutasi

Now there is a trough dweller of old.

Poutasi said NZQA was fully committed to the bargaining process and had arranged a mediator to help during talks.

Why. Here’s the deal. Like it or fuck off.
Its not like we actaually need these people to tell us what to do. This outfit is a scam on the workforce.
Why a collective. Individual contracts please.

Oh when are the Nats going to grow some balls about this stuff. I reckon they are closet union members all of them.
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March 15, 2013 5:54pm
Viking2

ex-golfer (41) Says:
March 15th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

@ RightNow

Funny they should time their walk out at 2pm on a Friday afternoon. How nice.
——————–
Not in Tauranga they didn’t. 1.30 and off to the beach to protest.

Now I’m sure you think I’m pulling your tit.
But no. Its actually true.

About 600 Bay of Plenty teachers took to the beach holding anti-Global Education Reform Movement placards while forming the phrase ‘stand up for kids protect our schools’ and writing messages in the sand to protest their anger.

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/40470-teachers-protest-education-policy.html

Funny that they don’t realise that this actually pisses the working mothers right off.

And here’s me thinking the sucks was spelt like that. But no the newvo pay teachers can’t even fucking spell to promote their cause.
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March 15, 2013 5:58pm
nasska

Did you ever wonder what the difference between a prostitute,
a girlfriend, and a wife are?
The prostitute says “That’ll be $200.”
The girlfriend says “Oh, baby! I love you, I love you, I love you!”
The wife says “Beige. Yeah. Beige. I’ll paint the ceiling beige.”
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March 15, 2013 8:00pm
joana

K.S.
There are two types of Catholics in China..the underground ones still linked to Rome and the rest of the Catholics world wide and then the official govt controlled Catholic church..It would be impossible to know how many underground Catholics there are. Many priests /bishops have been imprisoned and most likely tortured..As far as I know everyone gets tortured in Chinese prisons. Over the years , there has been many reports from Hubei province of priests/bishops being imprisoned so probably they are not in the govt controlled church.
There are also ”Bible Women” not sure what denomination , who go from village to village , preaching. They are regularly imprisoned ..When they get out , they go preaching again..There is a book written about them..I haven’t read it.
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March 15, 2013 8:59pm
Johnboy

Stop press:

Mad Celia is a dysfunctional wrecker and hater!!!!

How do we know?

Doddery old Red Ken told us so! 🙂 🙂 🙂

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/local-papers/kapi-mana-news/8429683/Poririua-councillor-blasts-Wellington-mayor
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March 15, 2013 9:03pm
SPC

Ken thinks he is Len Brown. And Fran thinks she is Franlena Brownie. This will not end will.
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March 15, 2013 9:35pm

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