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February 28, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 28 February 2013

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General Debate

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Longknives

“Most religions have already extinct. Xtianity is dying in the West.”

Bollocks. Got any facts or figures to support this?
Have you ever visited the USA? Or South America?
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February 28, 2013 12:38pm
Viking2

Housing affordability focus in RMA re-work
Last updated 09:13 28/02/2013

Amy Adams
Fairfax NZ
AMY ADAMS: There would be clear direction from central government on matters such as housing affordability and natural hazards.

Stronger direction from central Government on housing affordability has been signalled in an overhaul of the Resource Management Act.

Proposed changes include provision for some types of development to be processed without notification, a limit on what affected parties could object to, tighter rules around the scope of potential submissions and appeals, and provision for an alternative Crown body to take over consenting processes in areas facing growth management pressures.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8363078/Housing-affordability-focus-in-RMA-re-work

At long bloody last. The useless Smith was going to do all this 5 years ago. Time he followed Mallard out the door.
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February 28, 2013 12:39pm
Longknives

And why has ‘Xtian’ become a trendy buzzword for smug,know it all Athiests?
Is using an abbreviation supposed to insult or offend them?
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February 28, 2013 12:40pm
TheContrarian

“Is using an abbreviation supposed to insult or offend them?”

Neither. Next.
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February 28, 2013 12:47pm
hinamanu

ILLUMINATI PAWNS: Hip-Hop Mogul Proposes FREE BEYONCE CONCERT PASSES… IF YOUR TURN IN YOUR GUNS!!!

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/illuminati-pawns-hip-hop-mogul-proposes-free-beyonce-concert-passes-iy-your-turn-in-your-guns/
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February 28, 2013 12:59pm
Longknives

I’d rather keep my gun and shoot myself than be forced to listen to a ‘Hip Hop’ concert (Or Beyonce lip-synching as she shakes her thunderous thighs)..
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February 28, 2013 1:05pm
krazykiwi

And why has ‘Xtian’ become a trendy buzzword for smug,know it all Athiests?

I think they struggle with the with the concept of ‘Christ’ to the extent that even writing the word makes them feel uncomfortable, that perhaps using the name somehow demonstrates a belief.

I wonder if they also struggle to write santa, dalek, yoda etc 😀
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February 28, 2013 1:18pm
TheContrarian

“I think they struggle with the with the concept of ‘Christ’ to the extent that even writing the word makes them feel uncomfortable, that perhaps using the name somehow demonstrates a belief.”

Yes of course, that’s it.
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February 28, 2013 1:24pm
Chthoniid

The X in Xtian is a common abbreviation stemming to the era of Constantine and the Chi-Rho symbol used as a blazon on shields.
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February 28, 2013 1:25pm
thedavincimode

Robert Langdon

Thanks for that. 🙂
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February 28, 2013 1:31pm
TheContrarian

Much like Xmas is an abbreviation
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February 28, 2013 1:31pm
nasska

krazykiwi

Utter bollocks! It’s just quicker to type than “Godbotherer”. 🙂
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February 28, 2013 1:32pm
TheContrarian

@Krazykiwi

Because it isn’t polite to say c*nt 🙂
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February 28, 2013 1:37pm
Longknives

““Most religions have already extinct. Xtianity is dying in the West.””

Come up with an explanation for this somewhat bizarre assertion yet?
There are over 2 Billion Christians on the Planet. Over 150 Million in the United States alone.
I’m no ‘God Botherer’ myself but it annoys me when people talk utter shit…
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February 28, 2013 1:42pm
Kea

It looks like Obama is up to his usual tricks, by supporting Islamic extremists on one hand, and invading and murdering innocent Muslims on another.

“The US will increase aid to the Syrian opposition, the White House has announced. Europe may follow suit by increasing aid to the Free Syrian Army (FSA). ” http://rt.com/news/us-eu-armor-syrian-rebels-516/

This would be like the US supporting Tama Iti. In fact, he had more legitimate concerns than those of the militant Islamic war mongers who are the force behind the “Arab Spring”
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February 28, 2013 1:42pm
Kea

Arms for Syrian rebels go mostly to jihadists – report

“Most of the arms funneled to Syrian rebels reportedly end up in the hands of hardline Islamist extremists, including those affiliated with Al-Qaeda. There is no way of vetting rebel groups to bolster only those with more secular views.

The Syrian armed opposition is supplied with small arms from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, while their other foreign allies like the US provide logistical help for the transactions.”

http://rt.com/news/arms-syria-rebels-jihadists-535/
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February 28, 2013 1:47pm
thedavincimode

Quote 1

See what progressive do is not to debate through logic and reason but through shallow emotion.

Andrei, that’s worth bottling for two reasons, but somehow I don’t think that you will ever understand why.

Quote 2

If any one disagrees with gay “marriage” they are by your definition a bigot, hater homophobe. This is how you attempt to bully your opponants into silence.

Andrei, remedial reading might be in order for you. BTW, refer quote 1.

Quote 3

And do you know why you do it because you don’t actually have a case, the only way to win is to bully people into silent compliance with whatever insanity you intend to inflict upon us all whether we like it or not

Yes, of course. If I were to re-read what I had written, I’m sure I would realise that that is exactly what I was doing.

In summary Andrei, can I just say that your reply exceeded any expectations that I might have had in the event that I might have troubled myself in having any expectations.
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February 28, 2013 1:47pm
TheContrarian

“It looks like Obama is up to his usual tricks”

It’d more accurate to say “”It looks like the USA is up to it’s usual tricks” because the US has been doing this since the days of Reagan if not earlier (admittedly without the invading bit but they have been playing one side against the other for decades)
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February 28, 2013 1:48pm
kowtow

wehana @ 1044 blames Christians for the old Son around the earth bollocks.

I blame “science”. From the days of Ptolemy,it was accepted science that the Sun revolved around the Earth.That was the observed science of the day.
Until of course more scientific evidence came to hand.
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February 28, 2013 2:16pm
Ryan Sproull

See what progressive do is not to debate through logic and reason but through shallow emotion.

If any one disagrees with gay “marriage” they are by your definition a bigot, hater homophobe. This is how you attempt to bully your opponants into silence.

And do you know why you do it because you don’t actually have a case, the only way to win is to bully people into silent compliance with whatever insanity you intend to inflict upon us all whether we like it or not

I’m a progressive, Andrei. I don’t recall bullying anyone.
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February 28, 2013 2:18pm
Kea

TheContrarian, I agree. However Obama has taken it to levels never seen before. He is exempt from the level of scrutiny given to previous presidents, because he looks more like his dad than his mum.
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February 28, 2013 2:22pm
hinamanu

BREAKING: Shell have just announced they’ve cancelled their plans to drill for oil in the Arctic for 2013. This is a huge moment for the Arctic and everyone who’s campaigned to stop Shell, but the threat remains.

Join the global movement of millions to make sure they don’t return http://www.savethearctic.org
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February 28, 2013 2:26pm
Kea

to stop Shell, but the threat remains.

The “threat” of having the highest standard of living in human history ?

Tell ya what, if you don’t want the benefits of the oil industry then stop using its products. They are only supplying the demand of hypocrites like yourself.
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February 28, 2013 2:29pm
TheContrarian

“However Obama has taken it to levels never seen before.”

The Iran-Contra scandal was a little more egregious I’d say. There was also the funneling of arms to Iraq.

“He is exempt from the level of scrutiny given to previous presidents, because he looks more like his dad than his mum.”

Disagree totally. In fact I would say Obama is under more scrutiny. Every fucking conservative out there is demanding everything from Obama outside of a fucking sperm sample
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February 28, 2013 2:34pm
publicwatchdog

27 February 2013

MEDIA ADVISORY: : Switch Off Mercury Energy community group:

PROTEST THURSDAY 28 FEBRUARY 2013

The Auckland Switch Off Mercury Energy Group has organised the following:

PROTEST!

WHEN: Thursday 28 February 2013, from 3.30 – 5.30pm

WHERE: Outside Mighty River Power corporate office

ANZ building, 23 – 29 Albert St, Auckland City

MAP: https://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=mighty+river+power+auckland&fb=1&gl=nz&hq=mighty+river+power&hnear=0x6d0d47fb5a9ce6fb%3A0x500ef6143a29917%2CAuckland&cid=0%2C0%2C14661661492653781907&ei=Iu-EUM-0La6higfJyoG4Dg&ved=0CGYQ_BIwAQ

______________________________________________________________________________

“The legal challenge is over – now it’s PEOPLE POWER TIME to stop the sell-off of Mighty River Power!” says a Spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy group, Penny Bright.

“It is time for the public and all political parties opposed to asset sales to hold this minority National Government’s ‘feet to the fire’. Remember this?

“Let me make it quite clear. If the Government doesn’t get a good price – the Government isn’t going to sell”

(Tony Ryall, Minister of SOE’s 17/6/2012 NBR

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/govt-wont-sell-assets-if-it-cant-get-good-price-ryall-ck-121435 )

“How can the Government get a ‘good price’ for Mighty River Power – if it’s losing thousands of customers and it’s profits are dropping?”

[PRECEDENT: In 2008, Contact Energy (already privatized) doubled their directors fees and raised their prices 12%.In 6 months, more than 40,000 customers switched from Contact Energy and their profits were halved.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/droughts/news/article.cfm?c_id=180&objectid=10590906&pnum=0 ]

“It’s now time for thousands more New Zealand Mums and Dads, aunties, uncles, brothers, sisters, and grandparents (particularly those struggling to pay power bills for companies we already own) to ‘seize the moment’ and take action which cannot be ignored!

It’s time to Switch Off Mercury Energy – 100% owned by Mighty River Power!

The companies to whom we recommend switching are the following publicly owned companies:
Genesis Energy http://www.genesisenergy.co.nz Ph 0800 300 400
Meridian Energy http://www.meridianenergy.co.nz Ph 0800 496 496
Powershop http://www.powershop.co.nz Ph 0800 1000 60
Energy Online http://www.energyonline.co.nz Ph 0800 086 400 ”

Penny Bright

A Spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy community group.

http://www.facebook.com/SwitchOffMercuryEnergy/info
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February 28, 2013 2:38pm
Lance

Why don’t Greenpeace sail/row everywhere and their land lubbers only cycle/walk?
Just about anything else uses dirty filthy ugly evil non-renewable oil !!!!

Not to mention every greeny with solar hot water and solar electric on their house.

Wouldn’t be hypocrisy would it?
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February 28, 2013 2:41pm
Elaycee

Ahoy, Penny: Have you paid your rates (including the overdue amounts and the penalties), yet?

Just checking…

Elaycee,
Concerned Ratepayer.
A Spokesman for the ‘Save Our Skunks From Exploitation’ citizens group.
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February 28, 2013 2:44pm
Kea

Disagree totally. In fact I would say Obama is under more scrutiny

He is not, at least by the msm. I recall when Bush was in power, every death was front page news and was attributed to “Bush’s” war. Even if the deaths were the result of internal conflict between rival groups.

Obama has invaded/occupied/bombed far more countries than Bush ever did. He recently announced plans to send troops to 35 countries, in Africa alone, this year. He got a Nobel peace prize, from the left.

He is judged by the colour of his skin, not the content of his character.
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February 28, 2013 3:08pm
Weihana

kowtow (3,750) Says:
February 28th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

wehana @ 1044 blames Christians for the old Son around the earth bollocks.

I blame “science”. From the days of Ptolemy,it was accepted science that the Sun revolved around the Earth.That was the observed science of the day.
Until of course more scientific evidence came to hand.

Until more evidence came to hand? lol. Yeah right, THAT’s how it happened. New evidence came to hand and the Catholic Church said “Oh really? Wow looks like we were wrong.. okay let everyone know that we were wrong”.

Copernicus came up with his theory of heliocentrism in about 1514. The theory was either ignored or criticized as being a mathematical fiction. How could it be anything else? Scripture says otherwise therefore he must be wrong!

When observations “came to hand” that confirmed the theory did the Church accept it? Of course not. They doubled down on scripture and prosecuted Galileo for heresy. Not until the 1800s did the heliocentric theory get removed from the censorship list.

This doesn’t mean all Christians are to blame, but it does go to show that the faith is not always voluntary as Andrei tried to suggest. There are plenty of examples throughout history and even in modern society where some Christians attempt to impose their faith on others and the controversy over heliocentrism is a classic example of that.

Power and religion are a dangerous combination as the entrenched orthodoxy will always be resistant to new ideas which can only serve to threaten their control.
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February 28, 2013 3:24pm
krazykiwi

He got a Nobel peace prize

If I recall correctly, the Nobel committee met to decide on Obama’s award just 11 days into his presidency, ie no track record, just plenty of socialist rhetoric from the first African-American commander-in-chief.
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February 28, 2013 3:24pm
Weihana

Kea (2,245) Says:
February 28th, 2013 at 3:08 pm

I recall when Bush was in power, every death was front page news and was attributed to “Bush’s” war.

Which was so unfair because it was all Cheney’s idea… poor Bush. 🙄
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February 28, 2013 3:27pm
Weihana

Kea (2,245) Says:
February 28th, 2013 at 3:08 pm

Disagree totally. In fact I would say Obama is under more scrutiny

He is not, at least by the msm.

I love it how those on the right always qualify their remarks by reference to the “main stream media” (aka the “lame” stream media.. awww that joke never gets old..). This of course ignores the fact that conservatives have one major prominent news network acting as their permanent spokesperson. Media bias goes both ways.

Obama has invaded/occupied/bombed far more countries than Bush ever did.

This is disingenuous. Wars are not created equal and trying to suggest Obama is more of a warmongering president than his predecessor is ridiculous.

He is judged by the colour of his skin, not the content of his character.

Indeed… by Trump and other nitwits the likes of which fill this blog. 🙂
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February 28, 2013 3:41pm
Lucia Maria

Weihana,

You know that the theory of heliocentrism (which places our sun at the centre of the universe) is not actually correct, don’t you?
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February 28, 2013 3:48pm
TheContrarian

This should be good…

@Lucia – what do you propose if heliocentrism is incorrect?
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February 28, 2013 3:52pm
Weihana

I presume Lucia Maria is pointing out that the sun is but one star among billions orbiting the supermassive black hole at the centre of our galaxy and that our galaxy is but one of countless others in a Universe that has no centre.

Of course this has nothing to do with why the Church censored the theory.
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February 28, 2013 3:56pm
Chthoniid

@longknives

Census data in western countries show that the numbers identifying as Xtians is in steady, long term decline. The largest growth is with the ‘no religion’ group. Even in the US, this process is ongoing. The latest Pell survey showed a jump to 20% without religion, and this surged to 30% in the younger cohort.

When a religion is bleeding members faster than it can replace them, and this is accelerating in its main recruitment pool, its dying.

I made no claims about the status of Xtianity elsewhere. Your point is moot. Nonetheless, the attack on child witches by African Xtians (an endemic problem in a ‘growth’ area) is a bit of a PR problem. That Xtianity can persuade a group of adults to chase down a terrorised kid with downs syndrome and set him on fire for being a witch, isn’t really a success story for the faith. More that bronze-age values are pretty lethal in the hands of the superstitious.

But I’m sure that denying facts, turning a blind eye to atrocities, and blaming others, will be filling those church pews soon. So please, keep it up.
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February 28, 2013 4:21pm
krazykiwi

There is no ‘hidden cost’ of family breakdown… it’s very visible:

Child support debt exceeds $2.6b

Child support debt has ballooned to more than $2.6 billion in New Zealand and shows no sign of abating, as Inland Revenue struggles to rein in those who are falling behind in payments.

IRD figures released under the Official Information Act show child support debt in this country had risen by more than 13 per cent in a year.

The most recent data showed a total debt of $2.61 billion as of November 30, last year. In 2011, figures showed almost eight out of 10 of those liable for child support were behind in their payments, owing Inland Revenue almost $2.3 billion
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February 28, 2013 4:33pm
Longknives

I don’t really care about ‘Witch Burnings’ and whatever other evils you think Christians are participating in as we speak…
I was simply pointing out that the World’s biggest religion, with over Two Billion adherents, isn’t quite “Dying Out” as you rather laughably claimed.
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February 28, 2013 4:36pm
Kea

This is disingenuous. Wars are not created equal and trying to suggest Obama is more of a warmongering president than his predecessor is ridiculous.

It is not ridiculous, it is a fact. I suggest you have no idea (or interest) in the number of military actions taken under Obamas presidency. It is appalling and shocking to any decent fair minded person (eg: not shocking to Obama supporters)

But just for shits and giggles, tell us how Obamas military aggression is more “equal” than Bush’s ?

The fact his you support him because he is black and secondly because he is made out to be on the left (though he is really a right wing war monger.) The media bias against Bush was shocking and was only matched by the campaign to promote the useless nobody Obama. Dimwits like yourself have brought into it hook line and sinker. Obama is a terrible president and the whole world is paying for it.
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February 28, 2013 4:37pm
Elaycee

Another brilliant result by the men and women in blue…. with drugs worth A$438 Million being nabbed by Australian Customs and Police.

I’m sure the Asian connection will be sweating…. the justice they’ll receive will involve looking down the barrel at a gift coming their way courtesy of Ms Remington.

Good riddance.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/8364453/Kiwi-caught-in-Australias-biggest-P-bust
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February 28, 2013 4:37pm
TheContrarian

I wouldn’t say it is dying out either but it is certainly losing influence.
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February 28, 2013 4:38pm
TheContrarian

“The fact his you support him because he is black”

Strawman
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February 28, 2013 4:38pm
Kea

TheContrarian (581) Says:

February 28th, 2013 at 4:38 pm
“The fact his you support him because he is black”

Strawman

Explain to KB readers why he was given the Nobel peace prize ? (this should be funny)

During the his election campaign Obama promised to esculate the most absurd war in Americans history. It remains the only election promise he has kept. The body count proves it.

The withdrawal from Iraq was set by Bush, not Obama. Obama has attacked countries all over the ME and Africa. Drone attacks were measured in tens under Bush but hundreds under Obama. All I ask is judge this dangerous idiot on his actions not his skin colour.
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February 28, 2013 4:44pm
TheContrarian

“Explain to KB readers why he was given the Nobel peace prize ? (this should be funny)”

You’ll have to ask the Nobel Commission. But that is a red herring and irrelevant. It was you that claimed Waihana supported Obama because he was black when he/she said no such thing. That is a strawman no matter which way you cut it.
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February 28, 2013 4:49pm
Kea

TheContrarian, bullshit.

He supports Obama for the same reason the Nobel Commission did.
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February 28, 2013 4:51pm
graham

Chthoniid at 4:21 pm –

The example you quote of African so-called “Christians” burning a witch is horrific if true. I say “if true” simply because I don’t know about this incident; other than that, I have no reason to disbelieve you.

If it is true, then those people deserve to be prosecuted and sent to jail for a damn long time. And although I’m not a supporter of capital punishment, it’s cases like that which make me question my opposition to capital punishment. I’m assuming they’re part of a modern society, and not some isolated tribe? As I say, I know nothing about this incident.

But let’s be very clear – they are not Christians. Oh sure, they may call themselves Christians, but as far as I’m concerned a Christian follows the example of Jesus Christ. And that sort of behaviour is not what the Jesus I believe in would do. He’s the one who healed the lepers and the sick and the crippled.
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February 28, 2013 4:52pm
TheContrarian

“He supports Obama for the same reason the Nobel Commission did.”

Still a strawman.
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February 28, 2013 4:58pm
Kea

I think Weihana can speak for him/her/its self. 🙂
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February 28, 2013 5:01pm
TheContrarian

“I think Weihana can speak for him/her/its self.”

So why then are you making up positions that Weihana holds that have never been stated by Weihana?
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February 28, 2013 5:05pm
Ross12

Trying to milk the system for more funding !!!

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/16261559/fracking-report-delayed-more-funding-requested/

Why would the final report be that much more work on top of an interim report ??
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February 28, 2013 5:16pm
kowtow

Lance

Come the Green revolution every one will be given a bicycle.

But comrade I don’t want a bicycle!

Come the revolution you must use a bicycle……..

Except of course the Cadres ,who will still have their chauffeur driven BMWs.
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February 28, 2013 5:17pm
thedavincimode

Oh sure, they may call themselves Christians, but as far as I’m concerned a Christian follows the example of Jesus Christ.

Well exactly graham, or so I used to think because I’m not sure that your take on things is necessarily shared by other correspondents who assert themselves to be of the Christian pursuasion.
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February 28, 2013 5:28pm
wreck1080

Did Helen Clarks husband move to New York with her?

Just curious.
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February 28, 2013 5:30pm
Longknives

Wreck- I believe her husband stayed home in Auckland to look after ‘affairs’ .
I hear there is a stream of young men coming and going..obviously willing to ‘help out’ while she is away…
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February 28, 2013 5:38pm
cha

Oh sure, they may call themselves Christians, but as far as I’m concerned a Christian follows the example of Jesus Christ.

Did I fucking stutter
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February 28, 2013 5:39pm
Kea

Did I fucking stutter

Brilliant 🙂

How do you link, using words, like that ?
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February 28, 2013 5:44pm
cha

How do you link, using words, like that ?

http://www.ironspider.ca/format_text/hyperlinks.htm
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February 28, 2013 5:58pm
graham

cha:

Well … um … exactly. So WHAT if they’re gay or worship other gods?

A true Christian should still love them, take care of them, and not judge them. If you believe that being gay, for example, is a sin, or morally wrong, or whatever, that doesn’t relieve you from your duty to do these things. You can still be opposed to that aspect of their lifestyle, but love them and take care of them regardless. Just as I am opposed to my step-daughter sleeping with guys she isn’t married to. I believe that particular aspect of her lifestyle is wrong. Doesn’t stop me loving her, caring for her, having her around to dinner, and so on. No more than it did a few years ago when she decided to dabble with Buddhism.

Good. We seem to be in agreement. No problem. 🙂
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February 28, 2013 6:03pm
thedavincimode

cha

Was that Chris Faafoi, 2nd from the right in the crowd scene to the rear?
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February 28, 2013 6:05pm
Lucia Maria

Weihana and Contrarian,

You both might want to read this page on the subject by NASA: The Center of the Galaxy

But before long, the popularity of the Copernican System grew until it was the accepted model. Does this mean that it was no longer believed that we were the center of the universe? No. The belief was that the Sun, not the Earth, was at the center of the universe.

So we were still focused on the idea that there was something special about us. We had simply moved the universal center from our planet to our star. One of the reasons for this is because astronomers saw basically the same numbers of stars in all directions. If we were not the center, they reasoned, then we would see more stars in one direction than another. Since this was not the case, it must be because we were at the center.

By the latter part of the nineteenth century, a number of star groups called globular clusters had been identified. Globular clusters are large, spherical groups of stars, numbering in the hundreds of thousands, or even millions of stars, and orbit the Milky Way.

Distances to these globular clusters could be calculated, and the astronomer Harlow Shapley reasoned that if we were at the center of the universe, there should be an even distribution of globular clusters in all directions. However, when he plotted the locations of the globular clusters, he found we were not at the center of the Milky Way, and he was able to make a good estimate of the distance to the true center.

Then it was established that the Sun was not the center of the universe, but it was still thought that the center of the Milky Way was the center of the universe. It was not until the twentieth century that it was finally established that neither we nor our galaxy formed the center of the universe.

Note the highlighted part.
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February 28, 2013 6:06pm
TheContrarian

“Sun was not the center of the universe”

yeah – so? No one argued the sun was the centre of the universe. The Heliocentric model applies to the solar system not the universe.

“Heliocentrism, or heliocentricism, is the astronomical model in which the Earth and planets revolve around a stationary Sun at the center of the Solar System.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism
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February 28, 2013 6:14pm
cha

Was that Chris Faafoi, 2nd from the right in the crowd scene to the rear?

Nah, it’s Victor Vito standing next to Ted.
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February 28, 2013 6:15pm
nasska

graham

Your faith obviously gives you an outlook on life & the people around you that would be at odds with the average Christian who chooses to comment here. Most seem to assume an all knowing mantle of perfection & piety that would turn off Jesus Christ himself.

May your God go with you. 🙂
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February 28, 2013 6:16pm
Kea

test
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February 28, 2013 6:17pm
cha

graham

I run with the Beatitudes myself.
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February 28, 2013 6:20pm
thedavincimode

fail
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February 28, 2013 6:23pm
graham

nasska: Thank you. I know full well that I don’t know it all, for if I did, well that would make me – um, God? 🙂

cha: The Beatitudes are a good starting point to get a handle on Christian living for sure – but only a starting point. Some of the stuff immediately after is a bit of a challenge.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?

(Remembering that tax collectors back then were usually pretty dishonest people and not regarded very highly – Jesus still befriended them).

It’s that sort of thing that I personally have to work at. It’s not that easy to think happy thoughts about the little toe-rags that broke into my house and stole my wife’s inherited, irreplaceable jewellery.
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February 28, 2013 6:32pm
Pete George

I share nasska’s view at 6.16 pm, I’ve had a few arguments with graham and have been aware that he’s Christian but I don’t think that has been much of a factor in debate. I’ve certainly seen him differently to…

…the average Christian who chooses to comment here. Most seem to assume an all knowing mantle of perfection & piety that would turn off Jesus Christ himself.

Except I wouldn’t say “average Christian”, the odds are about half of the people commenting here are Christian, the non-Christian-like Christians number just a few but happen to be very regular and vocal – and intolerant of different views and faiths (or lack thereof).
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February 28, 2013 6:41pm
Kea

thedavincimode (4,495) Says:
February 28th, 2013 at 6:23 pm

I think this is more accurate:

ummmmmmm Tēnā koutou ahhh katoa.

Ummm ahhhhh Greetings um everyone and thank you for being ahhhh here together on a Sunday mmmmmmmmmm

It’s great to see so many ummmmmmmmmmmm friendly faces.

It’s wonderful to to to ummmmmm see so so ahhhhhhh many of you prepared to give up some of your summer break to talk about the future of of of ummmmmmmm our country.

There is nothing more um important. And nothing more um urgent.

I can tell you that today I’m refreshed, I’m fired up, and I’m raring to to ummmmmmm ahhhhhhhh go.
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February 28, 2013 6:48pm
nasska

Kea

You flatter the imbecile….he’s never been that coherent.
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February 28, 2013 6:50pm
Steve (North Shore)

Bit early? never mind.

Far away in the tropical waters of the Caribbean, two prawns were
swimming around in the sea – one called Justin and the other called
Christian. The prawns were constantly being harassed and threatened by
sharks that inhabited the area.

Finally one day Justin said to Christian, “I’m fed up with being a
prawn, I wish I was a shark, then I wouldn’t have any worries about
being eaten.”

A large mysterious cod appeared and said, “Your wish is granted”, and
lo
and behold, Justin turned into a shark.
Horrified, Christian immediately swam away, afraid of being eaten by
his old mate.

Time passed (as it invariably does) and Justin found life as a shark
boring and lonely. All his old mates simply swam away whenever he came
close to them. Justin didn’t realise that his new menacing appearance
was the cause of his sad plight.

While swimming alone one day he saw the mysterious cod again and he
thought perhaps the mysterious fish could change him back into a prawn.

He approached the cod and begged to be changed back, and, lo and
behold,
he found himself turned back into a prawn. With tears of joy in his
tiny
little eyes Justin swam back to his friends and bought them all a
cocktail. (The punch line does not involve a prawn cocktail – it’s much
worse).

Looking around the gathering at the reef he realised he couldn’t see
his
old pal. “Where’s Christian?” he asked. “He’s at home, still distraught
that his best friend changed sides to the enemy and became a shark”,
came the reply.
Eager to put things right again and end the mutual pain and torture, he
set off to Christian’s abode. As he opened the coral gate memories came
flooding back. He banged on the door and shouted, “It’s me, Justin,
your
old friend, come out and see me again”

Christian replied, “No way man, you’ll eat me. You’re now a shark, the
enemy, and I’ll not be tricked into being your dinner. ” Justin cried
back “No, I’m not. That was the old me. I’ve changed.”…………….
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> “I’ve found Cod. I’m a prawn again Christian”.
>>>
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February 28, 2013 6:53pm
noskire

Just responded to an online poll from SAYit which seems to be nearly identical to the one I completed about a month ago. I’m guessing it was commissioned by Labour or the Gweens.

Main points were how do you think the Govt handled the school restructure in Chch, smoking, state of the economy and your personal financial situation, oh, and The Hobbit – plus what are your political allegiances.

The Left looking for an attack angle I guess?
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February 28, 2013 6:56pm
Lucia Maria

Contrarian,

“Sun was not the center of the universe”

yeah – so? No one argued the sun was the centre of the universe. The Heliocentric model applies to the solar system not the universe.

You obviously missed the beginning of the conversation with Weihana, where he was arguing the following:

Until more evidence came to hand? lol. Yeah right, THAT’s how it happened. New evidence came to hand and the Catholic Church said “Oh really? Wow looks like we were wrong.. okay let everyone know that we were wrong”.

Copernicus came up with his theory of heliocentrism in about 1514. The theory was either ignored or criticized as being a mathematical fiction. How could it be anything else? Scripture says otherwise therefore he must be wrong!

When observations “came to hand” that confirmed the theory did the Church accept it? Of course not. They doubled down on scripture and prosecuted Galileo for heresy. Not until the 1800s did the heliocentric theory get removed from the censorship list.

The heliocentric theory, as referred to above at the time of Copernicus and Galileo included this concept of the sun being the centre of the universe, with everything else rotating around it. So, I just wanted to know if Weihana believed that the sun was the centre of the universe, as Galileo did.
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February 28, 2013 7:01pm
TheContrarian

You said:
“You know that the theory of heliocentrism (which places our sun at the centre of the universe) is not actually correct, don’t you?”

The theory of heliocentrism does not place the sun in the centre of the universe (though it once did – 100’s of years ago)
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February 28, 2013 7:08pm
Andrei

the non-Christian-like Christians number just a few but happen to be very regular and vocal

Translation: the non-Christian-like Christians – people who don’t go along with the secular agenda but hold fast to the teachings of the Church.

The Soviet Union got the demonization and mockery of Christians down to a fine art. The damage the Soviets did to the people will take another generation to completly repair but the intellectual heirs to the Soviets are playing the same game in the West
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February 28, 2013 7:10pm
Lucia Maria

Contrarian,

Yes I know what I said. I could have been far more specific in that comment, heck, actually I was. I clarified it with “(which places our sun at the centre of the universe)”, which should have been further clarified with “as believed by Galileo”, but I though the one clarification was enough. Obviously wrong on that point, given you misunderstood what I was talking about.
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February 28, 2013 7:13pm
TheContrarian

“The Soviet Union got the demonization and mockery of religion down to a fine art”

Fixed that for you buddy
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February 28, 2013 7:14pm
TheContrarian

You said the heliocentric model was wrong becuase it placed the sun at the centre of the universe, which is incorrect.

I’m sorry I got you wrong but there wasn’t much else to go on
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February 28, 2013 7:16pm
Viking2

To much more important Matters of the day.
Children time to go to bed.

A review sparked by the Kim Dotcom case has found that the Government Communications Security Bureau did not unlawfully spy on anyone else.
The review of cases dating back to the beginning of 2009 where the Government Communications Security Bureau provided assistance to New Zealand law enforcement agencies has found the Bureau was not in breach of its 2003 Act. +
.http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8365327/GCSBs-conduct-found-to-be-lawful
———————————–

So it would seem that the FBI or their freindly sidekicks at NZ police must have used persuasive powers to get GCSB to break the law thinking they would get away scot free.

Time for somme resignations and loss of pay IMHO.
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February 28, 2013 7:17pm
Pete George

Whoa, I bet this freaks out some alterantive bloggees.

Roy Morgan Poll:
National Party to 47.5% (up 3.5% since early February and the highest since July 9-22, 2012)
Maori Party 2.5% (up 2%)
ACT NZ 0.5% (unchanged)
United Future 0.5% (up 0.5%)

Labour is 30.5% (down 4%)
Greens are 12.5% (down 1%)
New Zealand First 3% (down 1%)
Mana Party 0.5% (unchanged)
Conservative Party of NZ 2% (unchanged)
Others 0.5% (unchanged)

Maybe 3 News/Reid Research wasn’t so far out.
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February 28, 2013 7:18pm
nasska

A little boy once returned home from Sunday School and his father asked, “What did you learn today?”

He answered, “The Teacher told us how Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt.”

“How?”

The boy said “Moses was a big strong man and he beat Pharoah
up. Then while he was down, he got all the people together
and ran towards the sea. When he got there, he has the
Engineers build a huge pontoon bridge. Once they got on
the other side, they blew up the bridge while the
Egyptians were trying to cross.”

The father was shocked. “Is that what the Teacher taught you?”

The boy replied, “No. But you would never believe the bullshit
she DID tell us!”
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February 28, 2013 8:00pm
Monique Watson

The Pope steps down as The Pope. He looks for alternative employment.

He spends three weeks as an adventure counselor shepherding groups of christian youths to the foothills of Mt Everest.
On the fourth week he is fired.
He queries the Camp Director who produces a tape recording of The Pope talking to Christian Youths..
The evidence speaks for itself:

On the tape, the Pope is querying, Eager Youth (E.Y.):
“Are you looking forward to climbing new and greater heights?”
E.Y.: “Yes I am”.

Pope: “Are you fully prepared my son”?
E.Y.: ” Yes I am”

Pope: ” And if we were to scale the foothills of Mt Everest and needed to stay overnight before descending, would you feel comfortable with that ,my son”?
EY: “Yes I would”.

Pope: ” And if you woke up in the morning and your sleeping bag was around your ankles and you were bleeding out your anus, would you tell anyone”?
EY: ” Yes I would”.

Pope: “Fuck that I’m not taking you camping”.
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February 28, 2013 8:10pm
nasska

In the beginning there was nothing.
God said, “Let there be light!” And there was light.
There was still nothing, but you could see it a whole lot better.
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February 28, 2013 8:20pm
Steve (North Shore)

The Police are wasting amunition shooting sharks.
One bullet is all it takes.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10868385&ref=rss
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February 28, 2013 8:21pm
Viking2

Roses are red, violets are glorious.
Never creep up On Oscar Pistorius.

Anyone making jokes about Oscar Pistorius are just prosthetic!

Too many Oscar Pistorius jokes already. Trying to come up with a new one is like taking a shot in the dark.

And the Oscar goes to…. Jail

New evidence has been found outside the Pistorius home that completely acquits him of his girlfriend’s murder.
Footprints.

She didn’t notice Oscar sneaking up behind her. It was the silence of the limbs.

I see what Pistorius is doing. He is going to jail for 25 years and when he gets released… Bam! President of South Africa. That’s how it works over there, right?

When Oscar Pistorius said he wanted to be just like able bodied athletes, who knew he meant OJ Simpson?

First Tiger Woods, then Lance Armstrong, and now Oscar Pistorius. I think Nike should start telling their athletes “Don’t Do It”

Yeah well… If found guilty he’s gonna have to take it on the shin

This Oscar Pistorius story is all a bit strange, isn’t it? There must definitely be more to it. He seemed so happy just the other day, he had such a spring in his step

Oscar clearly misunderstood when his girlfriend told him that on Valentine’s Day he had to take her out.

I guess that he is guilty – hasn’t got a leg to stand on.
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February 28, 2013 8:26pm
nasska

Oscar Pistorius has an incredible record of wins to his name.
Six gold medals, four silver medals and one argument.

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v9k0khwjwl561xx/Escape.jpg
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February 28, 2013 8:36pm
Viking2

http://video.theaustralian.com.au/2339383725/Biggest-ever-ice-bust?area=endslate4

half a billion of ice.
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February 28, 2013 8:41pm
Johnboy

Pistorius is such a strange name.

Sort of like a combo of “Pissed” and “Glorious” really.
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February 28, 2013 8:56pm
wat dabney

“people who don’t go along with the secular agenda…”

The what?

Reality is now dismissed as an “agenda”?
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February 28, 2013 8:58pm
Kea

More awful news for the warmists

Ironic these are the same places that supply much of worlds oil.

Modern Marvels – Desert tech – History Channel Documentary

Desert landscapes cover nearly half of the world’s surface. Luckily, amazing innovations in irrigation and solar power have allowed humans to turn dry, barren stretches into vibrant, thriving communities. This episode of MODERN MARVELS reveals the incredible technologies that allow cities such as Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Los Angeles to exist despite harsh natural conditions.
It’s hot, dry, deadly, and hard to ignore with close to 40% of Earth classified as desert. But in this scorching hour, the desert turns from barren wasteland into an environment rich with hope. In the Middle East, desalination of seawater now fills water needs. Americans have created booming desert communities like Las Vegas, where the Hoover Dam produces hydroelectric power and manmade Lake Mead supplies water. Native Americans farmed the desert on a small scale, but 20th-century technology begot greater opportunity. Once desolate areas of California and Mexico now grow agriculture due to irrigation, and the desert’s abundant sunshine allows solar-energy and wind-power production. And in the future, desert technology may enable colonization of planets like Mars. We also take a look at how refrigeration and air conditioning have made life in desert communities tolerable, and examine the latest in survival gear and equipment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO8GDYuwcqA
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February 28, 2013 9:10pm
Viking2

Things get worse for the Aussies.

New Mercedes-Benz A-Class is cheaper than a Holden Commodore –

And despite the $35,600 price tag, the Mercedes-Benz A-Class hatchback has more standard equipment than a $35,990 Holden Commodore SV6 sedan. –

See more at: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/new-mercedes-benz-a-class-is-cheaper-than-a-holden-commodore/story-fncyva0b-1226587139606#sthash.ELmR0GnW.dpuf
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February 28, 2013 9:19pm
Johnboy

I’ve just claimed prospecting rights on each side of the Desert Road Kea.

Do you want to get in and buy some shares at rock bottom prices? 🙂
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February 28, 2013 9:20pm
Johnboy

But neither of them are as reliable as a $25,000 Toyota Corolla V2! 🙂
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February 28, 2013 9:21pm
Kea

I’ve just claimed prospecting rights on each side of the Desert Road Kea.

Do you want to get in and buy some shares at rock bottom prices?

Hell yes. We can dig for minerals and oil. Maybe build a resort for hard working Jap Whalers to come and relax. We can open an exclusive restaurant selling Whale meat, and a shop selling a line of clothing featuring Harp Seal fur. Oh and a shrine to the Nazis.
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February 28, 2013 9:51pm
Kea

Mercedes hogged three of the seven slots for least reliable: the SL, the CLK and the V6 SLK.

Among mid-sized SUVs, the M-class, a quality disaster when it first came out, still ranks as the least reliable in its grouping.

Other luxury manufacturers turn up on the least reliable list, with BMWs, Jaguars and Cadillacs sprinkled throughout.

But what is striking about Mercedes’ performance is its consistency. Of the 11 models reviewed by Consumers, none are recommended. Seven are left off of the list because of poor reliability; the remaining four are considered too new to predict.

Mercedes has the worst record of any automaker with that many models. For a brand that claims to be “engineered like no other car in the world,” that is fairly frightening.

If it has not got “Made in Japan” written on it, it’s broken. Toyota Corolla is the best car ever made.
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February 28, 2013 9:59pm
Azeraph

Desertification, not a nice word. 40,000 elephants died because of one mans belief that they were the driving cause of it but it turns out that to save the great grasslands it’s the opposite, cattle was needed.
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March 1, 2013 12:25am
Azeraph

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20627606.100-living-in-denial-why-sensible-people-reject-the-truth.html?full=true

An interesting profile of a denier by Martin McKee, an epidemiologist at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine:

1. Allege that there’s a conspiracy. Claim that scientific consensus has arisen through collusion rather than the accumulation of evidence.
2. Use fake experts to support your story. “Denial always starts with a cadre of pseudo-experts with some credentials that create a facade of credibility,” says Seth Kalichman of the University of Connecticut.
3. Cherry-pick the evidence: trumpet whatever appears to support your case and ignore or rubbish the rest. Carry on trotting out supportive evidence even after it has been discredited.
4. Create impossible standards for your opponents. Claim that the existing evidence is not good enough and demand more. If your opponent comes up with evidence you have demanded, move the goalposts.
5. Use logical fallacies. Hitler opposed smoking, so anti-smoking measures are Nazi. Deliberately misrepresent the scientific consensus and then knock down your straw man.
6. Manufacture doubt. Falsely portray scientists as so divided that basing policy on their advice would be premature. Insist “both sides” must be heard and cry censorship when “dissenting” arguments or experts are rejected.
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March 1, 2013 12:49am
Viking2

Kea (2,266) Says:
February 28th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

If it has not got “Made in Japan” written on it, it’s broken. Toyota Corolla is the best car ever made.
——————————-
Not in Aussie Kea.
gotta be a Holden or a Ford. The aussies know best.

Toyoto’s are up there but have had several Nissans and can’t fault them The ceifero wagon that I have is great . V6, lots of bags, great to drive lay down seats which is great for my job, upward opening back window for the long stuff and built well before most of the othrs even got close.
Need to find another one shortly..
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March 1, 2013 6:25am
Viking2

Property market at risk of ‘sharp correction’
ROB STOCK
Last updated 05:00 01/03/2013

Financial ratings agency Standard & Poor’s says there is a significant risk of a property crash in New Zealand.

S&P, which has come in for criticism over its failures to adequately assess risk on many investments in the run-up to the Global Financial Crisis, said its “base case scenario” was for medium-term real estate prices continuing to stabilise at current levels.

But credit analyst Nico DeLange said: “We are of the opinion that a significant risk remains of a sharp correction in property prices occurring given the uncertain short-to medium term outlook for the global economy.”

Such an event would have a flow-on impact on the ratings of New Zealand’s banks. DeLange said: “This could potentially lead to a build-up of economic risks, resulting in the lowering of the economic risk score of New Zealand to ‘4′ from ‘3′. Such a change could have a direct impact on the stand-alone credit profile of New Zealand banks, and the issuer credit ratings of banks in New Zealand.”

Yesterday Finance Minister Bill English indicated new rules that could take some of the heat out of housing market could be in place by mid-year.
———————————
So it looks like the Poor Standard moiney rating spruikers whoi didn’t predict the GFC are now running around without any basis of fact and trying to kill the property market.
These useless pricks should be told to take their ratings and stick them up their own arse.

Worse is that stupid bloody English is running around along with Wheeler trying to manage the market. Doomed to failure.
No one with any brain power would take any cognisance of these poor standards. Smart people do their own search these days and can form their own opinions.
I supose the long suffering taxpayer is also paying for this useless non factual emotional advice.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8367191/Property-market-at-risk-of-sharp-correction
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March 1, 2013 6:31am
Viking2

Jetstar
You really do suck.
What a bunch of fuckwits of low intelligence.

Jetstar refused to shift a booking for the mother of shark victim Adam Strange to fly to Auckland after his death.

Jeanette Strange, of Paraparaumu, had already booked return flights from Wellington to visit her son next week.

But after police broke the news to her on Wednesday of her son’s death at Muriwai Beach, her sister rang Jetstar to transfer the booking, telling the airline about the horrific reasons for the change.

“They put me on hold for 10 minutes to talk to a supervisor, then said they were very sorry but could not transfer the booking. She would have to pay $321 for a new ticket,” sister Kay Cresswell said yesterday.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8367120/Jetstar-shock-for-shark-victims-mum

But wait there is much better.

Thumbs up to Air NZ.
She then contacted Air New Zealand, and was told there were two seats left on a flight to Auckland.

When they arrived at Wellington Airport the flight was full, but police had already notified the airline of their arrival, and it gave Mrs Strange a discounted seat.
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March 1, 2013 6:35am

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