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February 26, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 February 2013

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RightNow

And that thumbs up was from me, for helping change the subject 🙂
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February 26, 2013 3:03pm
Elaycee

Weihana:

I do not require evidence to assume innocence in the absence of evidence to the contrary.

Oh, bollocks – you made a sweeping claim that the morons who were arrested were “otherwise law abiding and non-violent people…” and I called bullshit. And despite your bluster, you simply can’t deliver any proof they are law abiding and non-violent because there is no such proof. You wouldn’t have a clue. And not for the first time!

And your next pearl:

You are, in effect, bludging off of others…

Haha – a person who describes himself as student with a penchant for dope tries to call a taxpayer running a business, a bludger???? Bwahahahaaaaaa…. Sure, Weihana. Of course. Right on. Got it in one. Pffttt…..

Best you stick to something you know a bit about…. Mmmm, that could be a problem, couldn’t it?

The real world will come as a bloody shock to you if you ever find it….
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February 26, 2013 3:12pm
Harriet

“…..Obviously the answer depends on the circumstances. Could be anything from “your mum died in Afghanistan” to “we adopted you because you lived in a shit-hole third world country and we wanted to give you a better life”….”

Idiot, it doesn’t change the fact that the child doesn’t NOW have a mother and father as ‘parents’ – it’s NOW got gay ones – a sub-obtimal parenting model. They NEED to be adopted etc to hetro couples as the child is SUFFERING LOSS of a parent!

Fuck your either dumb – selfish – or fucken cruel!

“…One has to ask: Are social workers intentionally ignoring problems when placing children with same-sex couples who have serious problems…A hetro, white, young, female would be denied adoption if they were a criminal too ya’no!..”
“……The point you seem to miss [Harriet]is that you are advancing nothing more than prejudice. Of course if a same sex couple has problems those should be assessed as it would for any other couple. But you don’t want just that. You want to prejudice them based merely on the fact that they are same-sex. You don’t care for specific evidence, you deal in prejudice…..”

Did you not get the point about the white chick?

And If you fucken think that people are going to list EVERY fucken example and EVERY race and EVERY creed to get 1 point across about gay marriage – your completly fucked in the head.

Fuck off and take your immature understanding of child behaviour with you! 😎
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February 26, 2013 3:14pm
Harriet

Joana#

You can start here: http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2013/02/23/canadas-ugly-gender-agenda/

Then go to the home page of culture watch and pick any topic you care and it will explain to you how the left have ruined Western Society. Cheers.
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February 26, 2013 3:19pm
Kea

You god botherers are really putting a lot of effort into opposing gay marriage. Are you concerned your priests will all be eloping with alter boys, or that you will give into your lustful homosexual urges the moment the governments laws fail to restrain that pent up carnal lust that haunts you constantly ?

You need not worry as the Archbishop, and many many others, have shown that the laws of our secular government fail to stop gay bum rape of young boys by gods reps here on earth.
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February 26, 2013 3:31pm
Fletch

I see little change to wider society as a result, it simply becomes more inclusive

Oh ye of such little foresight. Are you really that blind?
It will change everything. Marriage won’t be marriage any more – at least it won’t mean what it always did.
Reminds me of a quote from Stephen Lawhead (writer of fantasy novels).

“To see evil and call it good, mocks God. Worse, it makes goodness meaningless. A word without meaning is an abomination, for when the word passes beyond understanding the very thing the word stands for passes out of the world and cannot be recalled.” —Stephen R. Lawhead, Arthur
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February 26, 2013 3:35pm
Harriet

Weihana#

You cannot place a child in a sub-optimal parenting model when they are suffering the LOSS of a parent[s].

Gay relationships – TO A CHILD – is sub-optimal!

That’s the point.

If I’m being prejudiced- it’s completly irrelevant as I’m NOT the child and NEITHER are the gays!

There is two aspects of parenting a child – not just one:
Child welfare is ALWAYS about what is BEST for the child as seen THROUGH the eyes of a child – that’s the ‘modelling aspect’ of what is best.
The ‘secondry matter’ is ‘do the parents make ideal parents?’
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February 26, 2013 3:40pm
Fletch

Gregory Koukl writes on the Stand To Reason blog –

For many years homosexuals simply wanted the government out of their bedrooms. They wanted freedom to do as they pleased in the privacy of their own homes. With the exception of a few archaic, unenforced laws, homosexuals can now live without legal interference. As one writer put it, the closet door is wide open. Homosexual characters take the lead in TV sitcoms. They’ve been elected to Congress and sit on the President’s cabinet.

But liberty and influence have not been enough. Homosexuals are after bigger game. This debate is not about hate versus tolerance. It’s not about justice. It’s not even about the liberty to make life-long unions. It’s about something else. Homosexuals want the courts to give them by force what the public would not voluntarily cede: respect and honor.

Exactly.
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February 26, 2013 3:41pm
hinamanu

A nine-day traffic jam in China is now more than 100 kilometres long and could last for weeks, state media reported Monday.

Thousands of trucks en route to Beijing from Huai’an in the southeast have been backed up since Aug. 14, making the National Expressway 100 impassable, Xinhua News reported.

A spokesman for the Beijing Traffic Management Bureau reportedly told China’s Global Times newspaper that the backup was due to “insufficient traffic capacity … caused by maintenance construction.”

The construction is scheduled to last until Sept. 13.

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/terrible-commute-100-km-chinese-traffic-jam-enters-day-9/
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February 26, 2013 3:41pm
Monique Watson

– AGW is a big fucking conspiracy
– Gay marriage is not going to cause the fall of civilisation as we know it. This is because the vast majority of people hook up with someone of the opposite sex and it’s just kind of cute when gays hook up.

Can we get onto something original?

Joyce is busy rooting the manufacturing industry single handed:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/fran-osullivan-on-business/news/article.cfm?c_id=1502864&objectid=10867563

What’s he got against widget makers?
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February 26, 2013 3:41pm
hinamanu

Wonder if Harriet is Red’s wife
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February 26, 2013 3:43pm
Andrei

Kea – marriage is the foundation of our civilization. It is worth fighting to preserve it, damaged as it has been by the progressives.
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February 26, 2013 3:47pm
Harriet

A child should not be purpously placed in childhood where they face their entire childhood ‘suffering’ the loss of a parent.

That is simply cruel!
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February 26, 2013 3:54pm
Pete George

No one is suggesting that marriage be taken away from you Andrei. You can preserve it as much as you like, even if you think your’s is damaged. From where I’m looking marriage looks secure.
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February 26, 2013 3:55pm
SPC

Fletch, to everyone marrying marriage will still be marriage – saying otherwise is mere debate rhetoric.

“To see evil and call it good, mocks God. Worse, it makes goodness meaningless. A word without meaning is an abomination, for when the word passes beyond understanding the very thing the word stands for passes out of the world and cannot be recalled.”

When the world decided it could determine what the word of God was by writing it down in a book and claim this knowledge of good and evil had the authority of God, they still had to reckon with the fact that they were mortal and their dominion had a time expiry. The only antidote for this monstrous beastly human arrogance is grace of God alone.

Until the blind realise this they remain blind.
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February 26, 2013 3:58pm
dime

“The world wasn’t ended by introducing Civil Unions”

“the world wasnt ended when we could buy legal highs”

your argument is just garbage PG.

heres the thing. Dime has no issue with gay people (i think trannys are generally messed up though). i dont care who sleeps with who etc etc

BUT i do wonder if this gay marriage thing is just something driven by the gay elites with the sole purpose of pissing off the church.

what rights do gays not have under civil unions that “married” people have?
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February 26, 2013 4:00pm
Weihana

Harriet (1,156) Says:
February 26th, 2013 at 3:14 pm

Fuck off and take your immature understanding of child behaviour with you!

You must be an expert in child behavior as you are demonstrating how one behaves.
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February 26, 2013 4:15pm
SPC

andrei, the origin of the idea that marriage is the foundation of civilisation is

1. the creation myth

Chapter 1 Genesis – “God created mankind in his own image in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it”

Chapter 2 Genesis “for Adam no suitable helper was found. … So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh;she shall be called ‘woman,’ for she was taken out of man.” That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh. Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.”

But there is no indication of any marriage between the two, she was created as his wife. Marriage is a construct of a group society, with its rites of marriage.

2. the first chapter of Paul’s letter to the Romans where he connects faith in a Creator God to procreative sexuality (and idolatry to same sex activity) building on the Creation myth in Genesis.

1. Refers to those with faith in a God who made creation – where women were created to be wives of men and be a mother to their sons. In Hebrew culture being the mother of a son was the prime role of a woman (inheritance of estate property). Thus the mother and daughter story of the household of Lot, where out of a woman came only a daughter and what she could do for her mother (son in law and grandson).

2. Refers to Christian civilisation advocated to the Greeks (who called the first woman Pandora, in modern parlance property relationship law).
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February 26, 2013 4:17pm
Weihana

Elaycee (3,324) Says:
February 26th, 2013 at 3:12 pm

Oh, bollocks – you made a sweeping claim that the morons who were arrested were “otherwise law abiding and non-violent people…” and I called bullshit. And despite your bluster, you simply can’t deliver any proof…

Clearly the point is beyond you but I do not require proof. If you are “calling bullshit” then the onus is on you to prove otherwise. People are not guilty until shown otherwise to Elaycee’s satisfaction.

Haha – a person who describes himself as student with a penchant for dope tries to call a taxpayer running a business, a bludger???? Bwahahahaaaaaa…. Sure, Weihana. Of course. Right on. Got it in one. Pffttt…..

Best you stick to something you know a bit about…. Mmmm, that could be a problem, couldn’t it?

The real world will come as a bloody shock to you if you ever find it….

I haven’t described myself to you nor do you know me. Your speculation is inaccurate but not unexpected from someone who relies on ad hominem while struggling to make something resembling a coherent argument.
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February 26, 2013 4:31pm
Pete George

what rights do gays not have under civil unions that “married” people have?

They don’t have the right to get married. I thought that was fairly obvious.
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February 26, 2013 4:33pm
Yvette

Nor, as a couple, can they adopt children.
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February 26, 2013 4:36pm
muggins

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8348606/Millions-lost-to-dating-scams

There are a lot of gullible people out there.
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February 26, 2013 4:52pm
Kea

Kea – marriage is the foundation of our civilization. It is worth fighting to preserve it,

Andrei, sorry I thought you were opposing gay marriage.
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February 26, 2013 4:57pm
dime

You really are as thick as shit pg.

For a condescending middle of the road ahole, you seem rather insensitive to how a large group of people feel.

Because… The world won’t end.

The world won’t end if I cave your head in with a brick, but you’d probably prefer that didn’t happen.

Anyway, under a civil union people share the same surname if they wish. They live together. They have protection so if one of them dies they inherit that persons shit (bit of an issue with gay people in the past).

What exactly does marriage have that civil unions don’t?

They even have ceremonies for civil unions.

What percentage of the population is gay? 3%?

Percentage of Christians who are against it?

I know have 5 gay friends. 1 insists on the marriage thing, the other 4 don’t give a fuck.

So are we talking the minority of a minority that this effects? Along with piss weak losers like pg?
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February 26, 2013 4:59pm
SPC

National increase the MW by 25 cents (1.5 to 2%) to $13.75 an hour. This allows a further increase to $14 next year and one to $14.25 in 2015.

They could have offered a 50 cent increase (3-4%) to $14 this year, and $14.50 next year and offered to increase it further to $15 in 2015. Thus matched the Labour policy which is to pay $15 in 2015.

Now the Labour proposal will involve an extra $30 a week for those on the MW in 2015.
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February 26, 2013 5:01pm
Pete George

Parliament Today ‏@ParliamentNZ

Child Support Amendment Bill completes second reading 68 to 52 with National, NZ First, ACT and United Future in favour

Good to see this progressing, and good to see NZ First supporting it.
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February 26, 2013 5:02pm
Pete George

You really are as thick as shit pg.

You’re the one who doesn’t get it.

Yes, it only affects a small minority. That’s one of the key points – it doesn’t affect the rest of us. So if we expand the right to get married to a few more people it won’t hurt most of us and it gives some people an option they’d like to have as well.

That applies even if only 1 in 5 gays decides to use the option. Good for some, no damage for anyone else. So I don’t know why you’re pissy about it.

Something similar applied with the prostitution reform bill, that doesn’t affect most of us, but it made things better for a small minority. If majority ruled on that it probably wouldn’t have happened – certainly not if the very vocal “the world as we know it will end” minority had their say.
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February 26, 2013 5:10pm
RightNow

Wind energy on large scales is overestimated in capacity:

Estimates that ignore the effect of wind turbine drag on local winds have assumed that wind power production of 2–4 W m−2 can be sustained over large areas. New results from a mesoscale model suggest that wind power production is limited to about 1 W m−2 at wind farm scales larger than about 100 km2

http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/1/015021/

Changing wind patterns on large scales could also cause significant climate change. Ruh roh.
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February 26, 2013 5:13pm
Elaycee

Weihana: Clearly you forget what you write, so I’ll help:

You said:

Whether society wants to continue to spend its money… … to imprison otherwise law abiding and non-violent people…

Do you see the bit where you said: “…imprison otherwise law abiding and non-violent people”… ?

Yes, I called bullshit on your comment because you have no idea whether they are law abiding or not. For all you know, they could have a track record as long as your arm. And yet you claim they are law abiding and non violent??? But clearly you don’t know. And that’s why your claim is bullshit. Pffttt.

To help you paint a mental picture of these fine citizens (who you claim to be law abiding and non-violent), check this out:
http://www.police.govt.nz/featured/canadian-methamphetamine-trail-leads-cannabis-grow-houses-auckland

The best comment relating to this came from Minister Tolley:
http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/minister-praises-police-international-drug-bust

Especially this bit:

“A jail cell will be the only reward for anyone stupid enough to get involved.”

Touche.
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February 26, 2013 5:19pm
graham

Pete George:

Something similar applied with the prostitution reform bill, that doesn’t affect most of us, but it made things better for a small minority.

You sure about that? You might want to ask some of the people of Hunter’s Corner in Papatoetoe – the workers, the people who try to look after them, AND the residents.
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February 26, 2013 5:25pm
wreck1080

John Key thinks a high dollar is good then?

But, as long as he realises that the hangover to a bubble dollar means that the NZD will sometime plunge to it’s lowest levels ever, pushing petrol to well over $3 a litre.

This is what happens when bubbles burst. I would hope the government does nothing when this happens.
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February 26, 2013 5:31pm
Weihana

Elaycee (3,325) Says:
February 26th, 2013 at 5:19 pm

Weihana: Clearly you forget what you write…

No I didn’t. I have acknowledged clearly that it is an assumption and requires no evidence. People are presumed innocent without evidence to the contrary. I realize this is a tough concept for statists to appreciate.
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February 26, 2013 5:34pm
jaba

just heard Shearer suggest John Key shouldn’t call an early election over the water right issue in relation to partial asset sales. This was an opportunity for Shearer to stand up and challenge Key to call for an election to give his refreshed team a go
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February 26, 2013 6:04pm
Fletch

You’re the one who doesn’t get it.

Yes, it only affects a small minority. That’s one of the key points – it doesn’t affect the rest of us. So if we expand the right to get married to a few more people it won’t hurt most of us and it gives some people an option they’d like to have as well.

PG, Actually it does affect everyone, because marriage affects everyone in society because society is built on the institution of marriage. Family is the building block of society and anything that aids in the destruction of family helps destroy society.

You may not have the foresight to see it, but it ultimately does affect you and everyone else, married or not. The effects of it will ripple out, just like from a stone thrown into a pond.

Just look at what happened to the ancient Roman civilization. They were so powerful that no one could even touch them militarily, but they destroyed themselves from the inside-out – moral decay always precedes the actual fall of a civilization.
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February 26, 2013 6:06pm
SPC

Fletch, so you say it was only after Rome adopted Christianity as an imperial religion of the state that their moral decay caused their downfall. In actual history Rome was becoming more prudish before it adopted Christianity – one preceded the other.

The weakness of Rome was

1. insecure borders
2. resort to a paid army – they did not become an empire with a mercenary army
3. economic difficulty arising from 1 and 2.
4. the myth of Rome was exposed by its reliance on foreign soldiers and its economic difficulty.

In earlier times the legions were capable of conquering Rome but they and their Generals were loyal Roman citizens.
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February 26, 2013 6:16pm
nasska

This sums it all up for me….

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqvcpc03nsys3ym/Sense.jpg
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February 26, 2013 6:16pm
Fletch

Dr. Carle Zimmerman from Harvard wrote a book in 1947 in which he researched the different roles that marriage played in different historical periods. He wanted to find out if there was a correlation between the health of a nation and the health of the family. His book is called “Family and Civilization”.

He found that there are three basic patterns to families. One pattern is always dominant in a developing nation, the second pattern always dominates in a thriving nation, and the third pattern always dominates in a nation in decline.

He found a direct correlation between the health of the family and the health of a nation. He said that you can predict exactly where a nation is in its life cycle just by studying the family.

According to this research, eight specific patterns of domestic behaviour have signalled the downward spiral and imminent demise of every culture:

* Marriage lost its sacredness; it was frequently broken by divorce.

* Traditional meaning of the marriage ceremony was lost. Alternate forms and definitions of marriage arose, and traditional marriage vows were replaced by individual marriage contracts.

* Feminist movements appeared, and women lost interest in child bearing and mothering, preferring to pursue power and influence.

* Public disrespect for parents and authority in general increased.

* Juvenile delinquency, promiscuity, and rebellion accelerated

* People with traditional marriages refused to accept family responsibilities.

* Desire for and acceptance of adultery grew.

* Increased tolerance for sexual perversions of all kinds, particularly homosexuality, with a resultant increase in sex-related crimes.

http://www.amazon.com/Family-Civilization-Prof-Carle-Zimmerman/dp/1933859377

Sound like any culture that we know?
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February 26, 2013 6:37pm
cha

Just look at what happened to the ancient Roman civilization

Yup, Frank was onto something when he said beware the fish people, they are the true enemy because they certainly fucked a perfectly good empire.
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February 26, 2013 6:39pm
SPC

Fletch, in what past civilisations did feminist movements appear?
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February 26, 2013 6:42pm
Reid

Fletch, in what past civilisations did feminist movements appear?

Russian communism. And what a kind, benevolent, beneficial “civilisation” that was. Wasn’t it.

As for the reason why its migrated to the democratic West – draw your own conclusion.

Hint: it’s not “because it’s about human wights and we’re vewy vewy advanced and pwogwessive here in the West.”

No.

It’s not about that, at all.

That’s one of the key points – it doesn’t affect the rest of us.

So you got no kids Pete? That’s who it affects. Proud of yourself?
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February 26, 2013 6:48pm
SPC

Fletch, the reviews of the book are worth a read.
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February 26, 2013 6:49pm
SPC

wied, the book only covered ancient Greece and Rome – it supposedly showed the rise and fall of past civilisation to some similar pattern – thus Soviet Union could not be included. I suppose you are one of the savethemales (Henry Makow) disciples.
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February 26, 2013 6:52pm
Reid

the book only covered ancient Greece and Rome – thus Soviet Union could not be included

How convenient.

I suppose you are one of the savethemales (Henry Makow) disciples.

Who?
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February 26, 2013 6:56pm
cha

Fletch is a disciple of David Barton.
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February 26, 2013 6:56pm
nasska

cha

You could be onto something. 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gp7gdgoh8vff0tc/fish.jpg
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February 26, 2013 6:57pm
Sofia

Why will a few same sex marriages do more to destroy the fabric of society than the present downfall of couples in that only two thirds of UK children have two parents present in their lives, and here in New Zealand a quarter of children are from one parent families?
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February 26, 2013 6:57pm
Viking2

Well GD was its usual disaster today.
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February 26, 2013 7:00pm
cha

Very good nasska.
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February 26, 2013 7:01pm
Reid

Why will a few same sex marriages do more to destroy the fabric of society than the present downfall of couples in that only two thirds of UK children have two parents present in their lives, and here in New Zealand a quarter of children are from one parent families?

It’s another parameter in the same equation, Sofia. But its a very important parameter, since it deals with the label. And the label is not a word, it’s the brand. And if brand isn’t important, how come Microsoft and IBM and any corporate, spends billions on every single year and puts it on its balance sheet.

Those who don’t understand social engineering think it’s just a word, and they also think because it doesn’t affect them or their marriage, that therefore, ergo, ipso facto, it’s not a big deal.

Which is what they want you to think.

But if you do understand social engineering, and it’s not hard if you care to educate yourself, then you know, this is precisely why there’s a global campaign, not just a local campaign, throughout the Western world, specifically to capture ~~the brand~~ this single word.

Those who think might ask themselves, just why there is such a global campaign, over this single word. If it wasn’t important and it really is just a word.

And in case you’re wondering, the word isn’t marriage, it’s what it connotes in people’s mind: i.e. why a brand like IBM is on the balance sheet at billions of dollars. It’s not because it’s an initialism standing for International Business Machines. It’s because when people see it or hear it they immediately conjure up a mental image. That’s what the value is. And with marriage, guess what people immediately conjure up: that’s right. Family, children, commitment, fidelity, all those good things. That all changes, if all of a sudden, marriage is associated with other “values” just precisely exactly the same way it would change if IBM teamed up with some tinpot Chinese PC maker who built crap products and swore at their customers when they dared to call the help line. IBM wouldn’t do that in a million years. But apparently, lots of extraordinarily useless moron idiots, don’t see anything wrong with treating the marriage brand, in precisely exactly the same way.

Isn’t that dumb of them.

And they’re not going to suffer, it’s their kids and their grandkids who will experience the slow and subtle change over the decades as marriage becomes nothing more than a casual meaningless commitment that is no more significant in the wider context of someone’s overall life than a drunken 21st party.

That’s the plan. And it’s proceeding apace isn’t it. All wrapped up in its “human wights” envelope. Lest the useless moron idiots get wind of it before it’s all too late.
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February 26, 2013 7:18pm
Griff

http://anongallery.org/6313/flying-fk
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February 26, 2013 7:21pm
Dean Papa

That clown Morgan ought to be happy now

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10867893
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February 26, 2013 7:46pm
Scott

Agree with the above about getting sick of gay marriage on general debate. Especially since its such a minor thing that won’t affect my marriage and the world will just go as before and the sky won’t fall etc.
Well here’s my idea. Why don’t we drop the whole thing? We can all talk about something else? And if John Key believes in it so much then he can take it to the country at the next general election. National the party of gayness. We can out gay the Labour party. Also gay adoption as well? Let’s see how John Key and his party get on with that in his election manifesto?
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February 26, 2013 7:51pm
UglyTruth

People are presumed innocent without evidence to the contrary.

In this country the state does not presume that people are innocent of all aspects of the charges, specifically the aspect of obligation to the state.
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February 26, 2013 7:58pm
nasska

Scientists have finally discovered why the World didn’t end last December.

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse had nothing to ride on thanks to the UK’s Beef Industry.
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February 26, 2013 8:00pm
Fletch

I see the Muslims are trying to get a book removed from publication that describes their terrorist training camps inside the U.S.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBvMB8wBTlc&feature=player_embedded
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February 26, 2013 8:05pm
Judith

nasska (5,742) Says:
February 26th, 2013 at 8:00 pm
Scientists have finally discovered why the World didn’t end last December.
——————————————-

But can they prove it, and what do the conspiracy theorists say?

Are you sure we are not just in some sort of altered reality, and humankind actually ceased to exist in the physical sense, last December?

I wouldn’t trust those scientists – I think they are playing mind games.
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February 26, 2013 8:14pm
Sofia

Reid – And in case you’re wondering, the word isn’t marriage, it’s what it connotes in people’s mind … It’s because when people see it or hear it they immediately conjure up a mental image. That’s what the value is. And with marriage, guess what people immediately conjure up: that’s right. Family, children, commitment, fidelity, all those good things.

The point was that for roughly 33% in the UK and 25% here in New Zealand the word and it’s connotations are already fucked – but no one has really pointed that out.

For you, Reid, to be right, it is the argument about gay marriage and its acceptance that will destroy society, rather than the actual event itself or any numbers involved – a little like “dehumanising” by a further degree all woman beneficiaries in offering them free contraception [which was already available] and not bothering to find out later that only 7 or so took the offer up.
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February 26, 2013 8:14pm
Judith

wreck1080 (2,686) Says:
February 26th, 2013 at 5:31 pm
John Key thinks a high dollar is good then?…

Yes, and when it drops, John Key will think the low dollar is good. He’s an agreeable kind of guy.
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February 26, 2013 8:22pm
nasska

Judith

Interesting thought, though I generally trust scientists…..it’s only the climate variety that I consider to be a bit sus.

I do recall sitting on the floor along with about twenty others one night at a at a mate’s flat in the late sixties. We were trolleyed on weak pot & flagon beer, listening to Bob Dylan LPs & engaged in deep & meaningful discussions over whether we were the figment of someone else’s imagination.

I can’t remember any meaningful answers resulting from those debates either. 🙂
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February 26, 2013 8:26pm
Johnboy

I suspect you are a figment in my imagination nasska. I shall have another gin and consider that postulation! 🙂
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February 26, 2013 8:30pm
nasska

I await the results of your deliberations with feelings of unease JB. 🙂
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February 26, 2013 8:32pm
Reid

The point was that for roughly 33% in the UK and 25% here in New Zealand the word and it’s connotations are already fucked – but no one has really pointed that out.

So your argument is that because since the sixties, when feminism got started on it, the marriage brand as it now is today is damaged, therefore it’s not worth saving?

That’s a pretty dumb argument Sofia.

Perhaps you should look at what happened to Apple, in its “wilderness years” before Jobs took back the helm.

But that’s trivial, by comparison to marriage.

However, good to see you didn’t address any of the substantive points I made. You can’t really, can you. It’s very simple, isn’t it.

Only useless idiots morons don’t get it. Perhaps it’s all that weeping and wailing and rending their clothes, over the humanity of it all.

Too bad the same useless idiot morons don’t think about their own kids isn’t it, when they’re thinking about “the humanity.”

But that would require an IQ above room temperature wouldn’t it. Perhaps that’s why there’s such a high level of useless moron idiocy surrounding this issue.
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February 26, 2013 8:34pm
Johnboy

If you are non-woolly you need not fear me nasska. 🙂
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February 26, 2013 8:35pm
krazykiwi

Andrei, can you give a sound reason why a gay couple who wish to get married should be denied that legal right?

pete, Can you give me a sound reason why two siblings who wish to get married should be denied that legal right?

Can you give a sound reason why three people who wish to get married should be denied that legal right?

Can you give a sound reason why [insert relationship combination of your choice] who wish to get married should be denied that legal right?
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February 26, 2013 8:36pm
Johnboy

Today poofters. Tomorrow sheep! 🙂
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February 26, 2013 8:38pm
nasska

Ever been a problem for you JB? 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/khtqol9wguz14cu/Sheep%202.jpg
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February 26, 2013 8:43pm
nasska

krazykiwi

It is my fervent & sincere wish that the Marriage Act should be altered to cater for your “special” perversions that you so graphically listed.

Anything so long as it doesn’t scare the horses. * 🙂

*With acknowledgement & thanks to the late Trevor DeCleene.
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February 26, 2013 8:51pm
Reid

Would this scare horses nasska? It sure scares me.
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February 26, 2013 8:57pm
nasska

My guess is that it would scare them witless or excite them into a mating frenzy Reid. 🙂
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February 26, 2013 8:59pm
Reid

My guess is that it would scare them witless or excite them into a mating frenzy Reid.

I was wondering if we could get hold of it for the next Kaimanua round-up around the desert road. I imagine those horses would simply gallop into the waiting arms of the nearest roustabout at first sight. Probably paw them to death trying to madly get away.

Plus there might be an amusing “accident” with the odd stray shell.

What a twagedy!

An ~~national~~ international calamity.
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February 26, 2013 9:10pm
nasska

….”An national international calamity.”…..

A tragedy, keep it from the children & declare a day of national mourning. Fortunately we have a senior representative to take our case to the UN……Oh wait! 🙂
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February 26, 2013 9:19pm
krazykiwi

Anything so long as it doesn’t scare the horses

Johnboy waiting patiently at the altar in a veil would scare ’em 🙂
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February 26, 2013 9:19pm
Sofia

Reid – So your argument is that because since the sixties, when feminism got started on it, the marriage brand as it now is today is damaged, therefore it’s not worth saving?
That’s a pretty dumb argument Sofia.

It may be a dumb argument, Reid, if I was making it.
I was simply saying the marriage brand is somewhat fucked now
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February 26, 2013 9:26pm
krazykiwi

Euro debt crisis looms again as Italians defy EU austerity demands

The eurozone’s debt crisis strategy was in chaos on Monday night after anti-austerity parties appeared on track to win a majority of seats in the Italian parliament, vastly complicating efforts to forge a government able to carry through EU-imposed reforms.

In an earthquake result, the Five Star protest movement of comedian Beppe Grillo looked likely to emerge as the biggest single party in the lower house. The scourge of bankers and corrupt elites, Mr Grillo has campaigned for a return to the lira and a restructuring of Italy’s €1.9 trillion (£1.64 trillion) public debt.

The conservative bloc of ex-premier Silvio Berlusconi looked poised to win the senate, coming back from the political grave with vows to rip up the EU’s austerity plans and push through tax cuts to pull Italy out of deep slump.

“The majority of Italians have clearly voted against the Brussels consensus. That is a damning indictment,” said Mats Persson from Open Europe.

I still have a few Italian Lira lying around …
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February 26, 2013 9:29pm
Griff

Fuck this Mr Dunne
No new enforcement officers with police like powers of search and seizure.
This is a example of the long and slippery slope towards fascism.
WTF are you thinking?
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2013/0100/latest/whole.html
Subpart 3 Enforcement
Enforcement officers
Clause 68 enables the Authority to appoint enforcement officers to enforce the provisions of the Bill.

The police are the proper authority to deal with law breakers. There is no need for extending police powers to a new standalone branch of law enforcement.
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February 26, 2013 10:50pm
Griff

On fascism. what do you call this?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2013/0226/1224330517803.html

This was our Great Purge, our way of establishing religious, social and moral “purity” by locking up and “correcting” potential deviants. This level of “coercive confinement” is extreme for any democratic society. In 1931, the Soviet gulag held about 200,000 prisoners – from a population of 165 million.

The Irish system held 31,000 people – from a population of three million.

I am not, I should stress, comparing the two systems directly or suggesting that Ireland was a totalitarian dictatorship – merely trying to give some sense of the relative scale of the operation.

Relative indeed
One had Communism to blame.
The other that fount of all morality …..the catholic church!
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February 26, 2013 11:09pm
Scott

Griff my dear chap, you have been blogging on this topic, hating the Catholic Church since 11 a.m.
Having a quick read of that article it just seems very strange. Was the Irish population incarcerated? I thought many of those places were institutions set up by the church for orphans? It just seems a very strange article written by a person of the far left to be honest.

Regarding the comparison with the Soviet Gulag – apparently they were only begun in 1930. So yes one year later they had only 200,000 prisoners. But by the beginning of World War II they had over 1 million and Stalin busily expanded that number after World War II. So there is no comparison between what happened in Ireland and what happened in the soviet union. And there is the small detail that they were worked to death in the Gulag and shot in the Gulag and tortured in the Gulag systematically. Apparently something like one third of prisoners died under the Soviet system.

And let’s not forget communism was to blame. But the religious position that underpins communism is atheism. So we could say that because of atheism millions of people were imprisoned in the Soviet Gulag and hundreds of thousands, if not millions died.

If Russia had remained Christian then nothing like the scale of imprisonments and massacres would have occurred. The secret police under the Russians Tsar were amateurs in comparison.
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February 27, 2013 9:47am
kowtow

scott

Ireland’s liberal elites have turned their attention to the Church and it’s scandals. While not denying these terrible things happened it is now fashionable to highlight how “liberal” one is by taking an anti Church position.

The point has been well made in the past that these institutions were run by the Church ,on behalf of the state.Arguably practically the whole of Irish society at the time may have a case to answer,not simply the Catholic Church.
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February 27, 2013 10:46am
UglyTruth

“Father, why does the school have a rack?”
“Don’t be alarmed, it’s only for the especially naughty children.”

http://www.manataka.org/page1315.html
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February 28, 2013 7:57am

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