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February 21, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 21 February 2013

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General Debate

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Pete George

Posted at The Standard:

Question for David Farrar.
You make a big deal of how gay friendly you are. So why allow homophobia to fester on your blog? Small example, the vile asides that pepper this post. http://m.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/02/chauvel_resigns_from_parliament.html.

Either squash the hateful speech (like you did for the ginga comment) or take down your rainbow flag.

http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-21022013/#comment-592786

Something similar could be asked of David Shearer and Labour MPs, who have a history of being derogatory towards gays.

Unless this is addressed by Shearer it will remain Labour’s problem with homophobia.
– with Shearer added to the list of culprits along with O’Connor, Mallard, Cosgrove and Tamihere.
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February 21, 2013 8:02am
Left Right and Centre

Steroids were legal to use, but not to import or prescribe, Mr Steel said.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10866731

????

You can’t import them, so…. they’re legal to use but if you can’t import them you can’t get them in the country to legally use them? So there’s no point legally being able to use them then.
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February 21, 2013 8:12am
krazykiwi

Pete, when I arise in the morning I take a shower.

When you arise in the morning you visit The Standard.

I know who starts the day cleaner 😀
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February 21, 2013 8:16am
Left Right and Centre

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10866734

Might have to change the name ‘Auckland’ to ‘Hannahs’ once all the millions of expected newcomers live in shoeboxes.
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February 21, 2013 8:18am
hmmokrightitis

Oh, too much irony for this early in the morning. A bog standard author bemoaning ‘hate speech’. That bastion of free speech, of reasoned yet passionate debate, the sub standard. LMFAO. Clean your own house up first.

Ah me, methinks the morons doth protest too much.
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February 21, 2013 8:24am
Left Right and Centre

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10866715

Double-decker buses being trialed in Auckland…

Auckland Tramways Union president Gary Froggatt said introducing double-deckers to inner city streets would be “an absolute disaster” and some drivers had problems with single-deckers.

Look at this utter crap. Double deckers are iconic in London. I’ve driven an old one in Wellington. And the drivers that struggle with single deckers? Yeah.. I had my problems with them too… and guess what? Not driving them now!! If you can’t drive the bus…. then get another damn job!! How idiotic.
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February 21, 2013 8:24am
Andrei

A nano second after GD is posted Pete George manages a post containing the turds “Homophobia” and the “The Standard”.

Itching to go are we?
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February 21, 2013 8:30am
Left Right and Centre

Growing fruit and vegetables doesn’t produce as much greenhouse gas as raising cattle or livestock, the study confirms, but people who eat a primarily plant-based diet make up for that by eating more of those foods.

“When you eat healthy, you have to eat a lot of food that has a low content of energy. You have to eat a lot of fruits and vegetables,”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/food-wine/8285062/Eating-green-may-not-be-green

Facts and figures… truth and fiction… false perceptions…

I’ve read just a little bit about carbon counting…

Interesting to think about someone that cycles to work. To balance their daily calories they need to consume more of them.

eg car user 8 700kj daily calorie intake
cyclist 8 700kj less 4 000kj cycling. Whoa… eat 4 000kj extra to balance.

And the carbon cost of the extra 4 000kj they consume is? Starts to even out with the carbon cost of the fossil fuel powered vehicle. Especially a car with five people in it (rare to see that I know).
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February 21, 2013 8:49am
Fairfacts Media

Who is the extremist?
A guy whose life is in danger because he warns of the dangers of importing the followers of a barabaric religion whose followers seek domination.
Or is it the followers of those religion who seek to kill those who warn of the dangers of their religious-based ideology?
With so many doing their best to shut down Geert Wilders it does make you wonder what shocking secrets he is trying to reveal.
So in the interests of free speech and debate- a debate lefties and dhimmis seek to suppress- here is his melbourne speech.
http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/02/geert-wilders-in-melbourne/
Pity he isn’t coming to New Zealand.
http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/02/geert-wilders-in-melbourne/
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February 21, 2013 8:56am
Pete George

Krazy Kiwi – when I arise in the morning I visit quite a few places online. It’s how I get an idea of what is being talked about across a range of views, I prefer to see outside one bubble.

The Standard is no ‘dirtier’ than it is here. It is by far the biggest leftish blog in New Zealand so is an important part of the blogosphere and political commentariat. There’s a lot of noise for sure (like here) but there are also some very insightful and useful comments and posts. In fact picking up on one such comment earlier this week may have a significant impact on the Labour Party and Shearer’s leadership.

I’d much rather read a variety of views around various social media forums than keep banging on about Bain and climate change.

Note from the previous post that DPF has also visited The Standard. Why don’t you try and diss him for that?
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February 21, 2013 8:57am
graham

Some interesting reading there, Fairfacts Media. Thanks for sharing.
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February 21, 2013 9:11am
joana

If Geert wilders had come to NZ, which venues would have been available to him?
On another topic, good ideas from Judge David Carruthers for the Police Complaints org..A giant mess in In’gill with tech poor cops giving extensive info to a drug investigation defendants lawyer containing names and details re informants and under cover cops. But still a bozo came out and said their processes are ”robust”..I doubt those impacted would agree. Also , this will likely deter others from ”informing ”in future and deter cops from deciding to go under cover.
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February 21, 2013 9:27am
Weihana

Google Glass

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/bulletin/google-unveils-wearable-computer-google-glass/13317

😎
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February 21, 2013 9:45am
Andrei

Welcome to our brave new world of gender neutral parenting

We were both born to lesbians, she to a couple, and me to a single woman. She had sought out her biological father as soon as she turned 18, as the sperm bank her parents used allowed contact once the children were 18 if both parties consented. I never was interested in learning about that for myself, but she felt we were cheating our future children by not learning everything we could about my past, too. Well, our anniversary is coming up and I decided to go ahead and, as a present to my wife, see if my biological father was interested in contact as well. He was, and even though our parents had used different sperm banks, it appears so did our father, as he is the same person.

My Wife Is My Sister

There is a lot more to this traditional family thing, based upon traditional marriage, than meets the eye.
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February 21, 2013 9:47am
Ryan Sproull

What’s your point there, Andrei?
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February 21, 2013 9:50am
Pete George

To keep KK happy I’ll quote from a speech in parliament yesterday:

Last Friday the United Nations Security Council held an informal meeting on climate change. It is a significant event.

Slowly but surely the Security Council is moving towards adopting climate change as a security issue for its agenda. It first considered climate change in 2007, but China vetoed any statement back then. Germany reintroduced it in 2011.

The council declared then that climate change was a risk multiplier and a potential threat to international peace and security. The meeting last week was only an informal one, again at the insistence of China and Russia, but it is clear that climate change is being upgraded from a matter for the United Nations Environment Programme to research and the framework negotiations to mismanage to one of political and strategic concern for the security council.

The only real question is whether the council, with delegated authority from member States, can act formally in time to revert what the World Bank calls “catastrophic change for humankind”.

And…

Let this House ask the Prime Minister a few questions arising from the Security Council debate. Does he agree with the British climate change envoy that “the impacts of a changing climate pose a significant and emerging threat to a country’s national security and prosperity,”?

Is he concerned by the advice from the German envoy that “rises in global temperature were likely to have catastrophic consequences … [and] humankind would venture into an uncertain future that is much hotter than every before in its history—so from a scientist’s perspective, climate change is a global risk multiplier.”?

Does he agree with Oxfam’s plea to the Security Council to deal with climate change because “the global food system was already under severe stress as a result of droughts across the US, Africa and Asia.”? …

Will he listen to the Marshall Islands Ambassador, who said: “Global warming threatens our very existence. Our roads are inundated every 14 days. We have to ration water three times a week. People have emergency kits for water. We can no longer use well water because it’s inundated with salt.”

http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/Drafts/e/4/c/50HansY_20130220-Draft-transcript-Wednesday-20-February-2013.htm

Trying to talk climate change go away won’t make the issues go away.
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February 21, 2013 9:52am
bereal

Here it is Griff,

final absolute, undeniable proof of global warming.
Next some someone argues with your obsesssive belief you will
be able to post this as your trump card,
game, set and match to Griff.

Now you can STFU about it. You’ve won.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/19/us-usa-birds-idUSBRE91I16Y20130219
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February 21, 2013 9:55am
Manolo

C’mon, P.G., I know you are a The sub-Standard addict. Just accept and live with your vice. 😀
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February 21, 2013 9:57am
wreck1080

Schizophrenic Herald reporting….

“NZ dollar slides on mention of ‘intervention'”

Then, in the details….

“The kiwi rose to 54.80 British pence from 54.43 pence and rose to 62.82 euro cents from 62.67 cents.

The local currency rose to 81.32 Australian cents from 81.14 cents and fell to 78.34 yen from 78.54 yen.”

As far as I can tell, the NZ dollar has actually increased against some currencies so you wonder about the quality of Herald reporting. Pretty poor.
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February 21, 2013 10:00am
Weihana

Andrei (1,820) Says:
February 21st, 2013 at 9:47 am

Welcome to our brave new world of gender neutral parenting…

What does the letter have to do with gender neutral parenting? Do you know what that means? I presume not. The letter is about assisted reproduction not gender neutral parenting. It’s questionable whether the letter is real given the low probability of occurance though it’s well written if it were fake.

In any case the probability of this occuring in general is very low and as I understand sperm banks have already taken measures to minimize it further.
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February 21, 2013 10:08am
Weihana

The Obama administration is planning a decade-long scientific effort to examine the workings of the human brain and build a comprehensive map of its activity, seeking to do for the brain what the Human Genome Project did for genetics.

The project, which the administration has been looking to unveil as early as March, will include federal agencies, private foundations and teams of neuroscientists and nanoscientists in a concerted effort to advance the knowledge of the brain’s billions of neurons and gain greater insights into perception, actions and, ultimately, consciousness.

…

In his State of the Union address, President Obama cited brain research as an example of how the government should “invest in the best ideas.”

“Every dollar we invested to map the human genome returned $140 to our economy — every dollar,” he said. “Today our scientists are mapping the human brain to unlock the answers to Alzheimer’s. They’re developing drugs to regenerate damaged organs, devising new materials to make batteries 10 times more powerful. Now is not the time to gut these job-creating investments in science and innovation.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/18/science/project-seeks-to-build-map-of-human-brain.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Excellent idea. This is the sort of basic science government should be involved in. Scanning technologies are improving exponentially and supercomputers are attaining (or rapidly approaching) the raw processing power to simulate the human brain and with these emerging technologies this is the perfect time to bring a coordinated effort to understand how the human brain works.
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February 21, 2013 10:30am
Akaroa

Hmmm! Twenty idle-nothing-better-to-do blogsters ahead of me this morning. (Turn that thing off and get on with your work, there!!)

Serioiusly, once there are twenty or so comments on here, the pathetic attention span of your average blog-surfer is such that any one who posts after an hour or so is destined to be ignored, not read, skipped over or otherwise disregarded.

However, that aside there are two issues that i think warrant some comment this fine morning!

Firstly, how much longer are we going to have to put up with the shenanigans going on in the Southern Ocean?. I have no brief for the Japanese – repeat, I have no brief for the Japanese – but I have even less time for the musical comedy antics of the self styled guardians of the whales. Ludicrously pathetic though they are, they turn me right off.

If i get this right these – (what shall iI call them?) – bandits of the ocean wave (?) in the shape of Sea Shepherd and all who sail in her really need to pull in their swollen, self important heads and let the little yellow blokes get on with the business. It will – of course – end in tears. Any berk can see that coming. And when it does we should ask ourselves the question: If you play with fire how is it that you shouldn’t expect to get burned? Or sunk, as will probably be the case.

OK. Second, and different, rant. Why are the media in the form of the ol’ Auckland morning paper, (whatever its called) being so sniffy and poo-poo-ey about the planned construction of high rise apartment buildings in Akl? What’s wrong with them? I’ve lived on quarter acre sections, and high rises here, in Europe, in Asia and UK. And I can tell you I’d take a high rise over a lawn-girt stand-alone any day.

Its a great lifestyle, i can tell you with one very, very important proviso. And that is: NO CHILDREN!! High rises and children under the age of sixteen do not go well together because many adolescent and pre-adolescent children are, by definition, noisy, and still not entirely socialised. And in a high rise you have to consider your neighbours – the people you see in the lift each morning.

In our 200 square medium standard apartment with two basement car spaces we are insulated from most of the irritations that go with living in a row of houses in a street. Also, being smack bang right in the City centre we can choose any of a dozen restaurants without worrying about drinking and driving, not to mention the convenience of having other services and facilities literally almost on the doorstep. Hardly any need to get the car out.

So. To recap. Don’t tell me Sea Shepherd and Co are hard done by or ‘brave, champions of the innocent whale’. They’re not!

And don’t tell me that the provision of more high rise apartments in any city, especially Akl, is going to reduce us to slummy third world status. Anyone who thinks that has obviously never experienced the convenience, economy and all round live-ability of apartment living.

Double rant now over. Go for it guys!!
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February 21, 2013 10:41am
Andrei

What’s your point there, Andrei?

LOL Liberalism is indeed a mental defect, something is lacking in the brains of liberals that makes what is blindingly obvious to normal people impossible for them to grasp.

I doubt that there is a cure – perhaps a shock treatment via a dose of reality by making them live in another culture where English isn’t spoken and life is hard might do it, who knows?
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February 21, 2013 10:44am
Ryan Sproull

LOL Liberalism is indeed a mental defect, something is lacking in the brains of liberals that makes what is blindingly obvious to normal people impossible for them to grasp.

I doubt that there is a cure – perhaps a shock treatment via a dose of reality by making them live in another culture where English isn’t spoken and life is hard might do it, who knows?

Yeah yeah. What was your actual point? Sperm donation is bad?
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February 21, 2013 10:51am
Pete George

David Carter is struggling as new Speaker. It’s a daunting task countrolling a house of harangers and Carter is finding the initial going tough.

Carter looks easily flustered. Time will tell whether he grows into the job or keeps blustering his way through it. In the meantime we can expect a lot of frustration from the opposition.

National MPs would help the Speaker – and Parliament – if they supported Carter and didn’t abuse their speaking rights and obligations in the House.

If Parliament descends into more chaos than usual John Key will have to take some of the responsibility.

Carter struggling as Speaker – and I’m not as scathing as Cam at Truth in Just Dreadful – A lesson in how to win in Parliament
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February 21, 2013 10:53am
graham

Akaroa, I think the issues raised about apartment buildings – certainly in the link that Left Right and Centre provided – is more to do with the size and quality. Does anybody really want to live in a shoddily-built, squashed cramped little “shoebox”?

Although, having said that, I did hear something on the radio this morning about an apartment building in Milford (Auckland North Shore) being rejected basically due to the NIMBY syndrome if I recall correctly. I can understand that – if you’ve ever been to Orewa, you cannot miss the Nautilus, a 12-level monstrosity sticking out like a sore thumb.

But I agree with you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with apartment living, as long as it is done properly, planned well, and the apartments are built well. It’s not for me personally, but that’s just due to my lifestyle, the fact that I have children, and so on. Looking at it from another perspective, I have no idea where all the people piling into Auckland over the next 30 years are going to live if we don’t start building more apartments. Daily commute from Pokeno, anyone?
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February 21, 2013 11:06am
Griff

This is a reflection on the position of the right on global warming. Facts are bad,Oil industry spin is good. no matter how pathetic and blatant the manipulation
You will all screech like fucked pigs when the greens are voted into power yet you think like this about environmental issues

RightNow (4,940) Says:
February 20th, 2013 at 9:48 am

Arctic sea ice makes record gains.
Warmists pray for super El Nino and solar hyperactivity.
Turd sticks to bowl.
Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0

Griff (4,322) Says:
February 20th, 2013 at 9:57 am

RightNow
Record gains in winter from record lows in summer still does not put the ice extent to the average for 1980 to 2000
In fact it has not even hit the average level for this century. spin spin spin eh wrong often.

In short you are trying to claim that the ice is recouping long term due to it freezing as we go into winter
Next summer the fresh ice will melt
unless there is a significant buildup in multi year ice the seasonal recovery does nothing to disprove the warming of the arctic region.
Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 11

When the greens are voted in I suggest that those greedy fucks who refuse to acknowledge the problem of global warming review their beliefs. The costs the greens will add to the economy on social issues will be due to your own personal stupidity over allowing the left to own the AGW debate.

Ps For those that blame me for fulling general debate with climate change
I only react to prior denial posts. The ratio of denial to rational on climate change runs about four to one to the denial nutjobs. The reason you are blaming me for it festering on GD is the message I have scares you. It is far easier for you to believe its not a problem than deal with the consequences of it happening.
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February 21, 2013 11:07am
krazykiwi

Why don’t you try and diss him for that?

Because it was light-hearted humour pete. Not a character assignation, which you well know I’m capable of if the need arises

To keep kk happy

I’m usually pretty happy, but thanks for the concern 🙂
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February 21, 2013 11:08am
wreck1080

“The Duke of Edinburgh has struck again.

His latest gem: “The Philippines must be half empty – you’re all here running the NHS (National Health Service).”
”

Doesn’t sound too outrageous to me.

I had an english person commenting to me that 1/2 of NZ must be living in London. Using an exaggeration to illustrate a point.

Hardly a gaff.
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February 21, 2013 11:10am
krazykiwi

Griff – sorry pal. The message you have doesn’t scare me.

Makes me laugh out loud? Yes.

Has me shake my head that someone can be so stuipd? Yes.

That you continue to persist with outright lies, fabrication and a defence of the crumbling walls of the climate scam is quite astounding.

I blame the cannabis.
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February 21, 2013 11:14am
James Stephenson

I had an english person commenting to me that 1/2 of NZ must be living in London. Using an exaggeration to illustrate a point.

It’s true. You couldn’t get a drink in London if it wasn’t for all the Aussies and Kiwis.
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February 21, 2013 11:19am
Fletch

Related to yesterday’s cloud computing thread – Link to a very good site that lets you manage all your cloud sites from one place for FREE – https://www.cloudkafe.com/
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February 21, 2013 11:24am
graham

wreck1080 – good on him, the Duke of Edinburgh rocks. Given that he’s a fountain of political incorrectness – and unapologetic to boot – many people either find him a refreshing breath of fresh air, or rude and offensive.

But at least he says what he thinks, and PC be damned.

There’s a story of the Queen and the Duke driving together – him driving very, very fast, and her repeatedly telling him to slow down. Supposedly he finally said “If you speak again, woman, I shall put you out of the car.” And she didn’t speak again. Upon being told this, a friend of the Queen said in horror, “Why do you let him speak to you like that?” And the Queen replied, “Well, you heard what he said – he’d put me out of the car.” 🙂
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February 21, 2013 11:28am
krazykiwi

graham, I think he’s a moron. Seriously. Read some of these: Top 15 quotes of Prince Philip.
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February 21, 2013 11:33am
Carlos

How can the BBC print this? It can’t help the cause of Muslim immigration.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-21523879
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February 21, 2013 11:35am
graham

krazykiwi: I know that as I write this I will sound like Pedantic Pete, for which I apologise, but …

Do you REALLY think he’s a moron as such? Rude, offensive, inconsiderate, sexist, prejudiced – I could understand if you called him any of those, but a moron? Why?

Yes, some of those quotes are … well … but I love this one: “If you see a man opening a car door for a woman, it means one of two things: it’s either a new woman or a new car!”
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February 21, 2013 11:39am
eszett

Andrei (1,822) Says:
February 21st, 2013 at 10:44 am
What’s your point there, Andrei?

LOL Liberalism is indeed a mental defect, something is lacking in the brains of liberals that makes what is blindingly obvious to normal people impossible for them to grasp.

I doubt that there is a cure – perhaps a shock treatment via a dose of reality by making them live in another culture where English isn’t spoken and life is hard might do it, who knows?

*yawn*

Andrei talking about a “lack of brains”, “normal people” and “reality”. I guess the irony is totally lost on him, yet again.

Still hasn’t been able to explain his point.
Probably something to do with lesbians and you know, lesbians are evil
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February 21, 2013 11:42am
Manolo

I don’t believe Prince Philip is a moron. Not at all.
An old guy who open his mouth and speaks his mind without considering the consequences, yes; a moron, no.
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February 21, 2013 11:42am
krazykiwi

graham, yeah fair enough. (I quite liked that one too!). It was the wish to return as a virus to cull the worlds population and got to me.
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February 21, 2013 11:43am
Harriet

And here is why NZ should impose the 2% rule on Muslim Immigration:

Take it away Geert Wilders………

“In each one of our cities, there is a second city, a state within the state, a government within the government. A Muslim city, a city ruled by the Koran.” — end of quote.

“There is reason for concern if the erosion of our freedom of speech is the price we must pay to accommodate Islam. There is something badly wrong if those who deny that Islam is a problem do not grant us the right to talk about the issue.

Public discussion should not be stifled by threats; On the contrary, public discussion should be promoted. And everyone should be allowed to freely express his opinions.

If we remain silent, we are certain to go from defeat to defeat; But if we speak the truth, we will be able to turn the tide and it will be our first victory of many.

The future freedom of Australia, the liberties of your children — they depend on you.

The ANZAC spirit helped keep Europe free in the past; the ANZAC spirit will keep you free in the future. Be as brave as your fathers, and you will survive.

There is hope because we are not alone. We still speak for the majority. While the elite has largely fallen for cultural relativism, the people have not.

In my country, the Netherlands, 56 percent of the population see Islam as the biggest threat to our national identity.

In Britain, a survey last month showed that the public regard immigration as the biggest issue facing British society.

In Germany, 64 percent hold that Islam is violent and 70 percent that it is fanatical.

In France, 74 percent are convinced that Islam is intolerant and not compatible with French society.

These people are not wrongheaded, they are not extremists; they stand for decency, common sense and liberty. We must speak on their behalf. We must encourage them. We must tell them not to give up and not to lose heart.

My friends, always remember that our voice is the voice of liberty; it is the voice of liberation.

Let us defend our own freedoms. And let us support Muslims — and especially the suppressed Muslim women — who want to free themselves from the yoke of Islam.

Now we will hear from that ‘voice of reason’ Pete George……take it away Pete 😎
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February 21, 2013 11:45am
dime

Good to see Peter Dunne speaking about the important issues:

“Air NZ should discount fares when forced to fly on cruddy 737 rather A320 Airbus”.

How about “whorish MP’s should pay for their own tickets once in a while”.
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February 21, 2013 11:50am
RightNow

The worst impacts of the AGW scare are already entrenched as illustrated by Griff’s posting the other day of a fictional study regarding power generation in Australia. The study (based on models) said wind and solar would be cheaper generation methods than coal and gas, and based that on wind generation falling to $80/MWH compared to new coal generation rising to $140/MWH.
The fact that current coal generation prices are about $40/MWH should be evidence to all of the real dangers of the AGW industry.
Prices for power will be (already are being) artificially inflated to make renewables look cost effective in comparison.
How will this affect the poor and the frail? Most us will know some elderly people who live on bugger all. They already sit in their freezing cold bedsit in winter with a blanket draped over them and a single bar heater (or a similar scenario).
Griff says “The costs the greens will add to the economy on social issues …” – the costs are already being added, look at the EU budget of $300 million for ‘climate action’ until 2020. For what?

The costs of action to curb CO2 emissions that would perhaps stall 0.1 deg C rise are magnitudes more than the costs of targeted mitigation such as levee building. The benefits of a moderate rise in temp (e.g. higher crop yields, greater areas of arable land) are played down. Meanwhile big oil have already got their fingers in the pie, as do big insurance and big green.
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February 21, 2013 11:50am
Pete George

Harriet – to be reasonable I’d need to see what sort of surveys you are referring to. Otherwise your comment could sound like just another bit of bashing of a different religion without solid substantion of claims made.

And if accurate what would it prove? Or achieve?

You might get a majority in a survey done here opposing Maorism and Asianism , but that wouldn’t justify limiting them to 2% of the population.
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February 21, 2013 11:54am
graham

kk, certainly I concede some of his statements are a bit over the top. Saying to a blind women with a guide dog “Do you know they have eating dogs for the anorexic now?” probably didn’t upset her, but I’ll bet there was a swag of complaints from eating-disorder centres – probably fair enough, too, to be honest. And I’d hiccup a bit over the “slitty eyes” comment too.
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February 21, 2013 11:56am
Griff

That you continue to persist with outright lies, fabrication and a defense of the crumbling walls of the climate scam is quite astounding.

U.S. National Climate Assessment, released on Friday, said observable change to the climate in the past half-century “is due primarily to human activities, predominantly the burning of fossil fuel,” and that no areas of the United States were immune to change.

“Corn producers in Iowa, oyster growers in Washington State, and maple syrup producers in Vermont have observed changes in their local climate that are outside of their experience,” the report said.

Months after Superstorm Sandy hurtled into the U.S. East Coast, causing billions of dollars in damage, the report concluded that severe weather was the new normal.

“Certain types of weather events have become more frequent and/or intense, including heat waves, heavy downpours, and, in some regions, floods and droughts,” the report said, days after scientists at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration declared 2012 the hottest year ever in the United States.

😆
the scam is way past the point of it being proven its fucken happening and yet you continue to hold views from guys like James Taylor.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/02/19/1608431/heartlands-james-taylor-falsely-claims-new-study-rejects-climate-consensus/
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/06/18/forbes-still-publishing-heartlands-climate-nons/177014
You know they are funded by Hydro carbon money.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/02/donors-trust-climate-denial
You totally fail to recognize that some super rich in particular those who profit from mining or drilling are quite happy to delay any action in till it is imposable to still deny the truth.
You believe there is actually disagreement in science and its a hoax yet are ignoring the evidence in front of you of a flow of money from these super rich into the organizations you are referencing for “unbiased scientific reporting”.
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February 21, 2013 11:58am
Harriet

“…..You might get a majority in a survey done here opposing Maorism and Asianism , but that wouldn’t justify limiting them to 2% of the population…..”

…..they don’t mutilate kids…….or their wives….by creed.

In your pen on the left Pete……some pigs lives are worth more than others……typical of your type Pete. 😎
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February 21, 2013 12:02pm
Manolo

..but that wouldn’t justify limiting them to 2% of the population.

I reckon 0.00000% would be much better.
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February 21, 2013 12:04pm
Scott Chris

LOL Liberalism is indeed a mental defect, something is lacking in the brains of liberals that makes what is blindingly obvious to normal people impossible for them to grasp.

Heh. That’s the thing. In general Liberals know that virtually nothing is blindingly obvious – whereas Conservatives seem more comfortable with certainty. Still, we are all constrained by our individual ability to perceive.
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February 21, 2013 12:04pm
Harriet

Ryan Sproull – “….Yeah yeah. What was your actual point? Sperm donation is bad?…’

Andrei’s point is this:

Two brothers should not commit sodomy. Nor a father and adult son. Nor a mother and adult daughter commit foreplay.

Why do you support this behaviour Ryan…..bored with your sex life?
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February 21, 2013 12:08pm
MT_Tinman

graham (1,655) Says:
February 21st, 2013 at 11:06 am
Akaroa, I think the issues raised about apartment buildings – certainly in the link that Left Right and Centre provided – is more to do with the size and quality. Does anybody really want to live in a shoddily-built, squashed cramped little “shoebox”?

Surely Graham, if no one wants to live in a “shoebox” apartment they won’t do so, the building owner will go broke, the disused building will rot and fall down and someone will build a more desirable building on the site.

Or is the problem that someone might want to live in the small apartments and bloody do-gooders have found yet another cause for their nose-poking?
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February 21, 2013 12:10pm
Griff

Right now.
The cost quoted by Bloombergs was for new generation.

Q Why do you fuss on the cost of existing generation when that has nothing to do with the costs of building new plant?

A Because you did not actually understand what I posted just read green energy is cheaper. then trotted of to the usual sources of misinformation for a little conformation bias.
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February 21, 2013 12:12pm
Twinkletoes

Peter George – have a look at sites like “Islam versus Europe” “Gates of Vienna” and USA blogs that detail how aggressive and demanding Islam has become in the West. The fact that polygamy is now legal for muslims in UK and sharia courts proliferate in the muslim areas shouild give you an idea of how Islam has encroached on once Christian countries.And are you aware of the “Istanbul Process” which wants the UN to introduce a law criminalising any denigration of religion. Which is the only ideology that does not like the real truth of their religious tenets and laws exposed before the world and which has already killed many who dare to question it?

Or on the other hand you could read the Qur’an, ahadith and Sira, have a look at what Sharia law actually entails and see for yourself what a retrograde ideology this is and how they have a mandate from their prophet to conquer the world as there will be no peace until the earth is ruled by Gods laws only and our manmade legal system is over ruled.

In the USA Kentucky has actually had to pass an anti Sharia law to ensure that it is not used in conjunction with ordinary law as the muslims there want. The higher the muslim population, the more demands they make and the USA, like Europe, is frightened of what will happen if they do not bow to these demands.

Lord Ahmad in UK threatened to unleash 10,000 muslim rioters on Parliament if Geert Wilders was allowed in to UK to speak. Now we are seeing ‘muslim patrols’ questioning those whom they think are gay, have skirts that are too short, are carrying beer etc. in areas where there is a high Islamic demographic. Give them an inch etc. etc.
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February 21, 2013 12:19pm
graham

MT_Tinman: If the price is right they will live there. If it’s the only accommodation and they have little choice, they will live there. Doesn’t mean that we should encourage it, and especially not our town planners. Why plan to build a ready-made slum from new?
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February 21, 2013 12:26pm
Fletch

the scam is way past the point of it being proven its fucken happening and yet you continue to hold views from guys like James Taylor.

Hey, don’t be dissing James Taylor. I love his folksy, acoustic-guitar-driven music 🙂
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February 21, 2013 12:32pm
Fletch

Question: are you tolerant of homosexuals or gay marriage? Then really, you don’t agree with either, as we only tolerate things we don’t agree with, as one author points out –

The concept of tolerance is reserved for behavior or ideas one thinks are either incorrect or immoral. Do you tolerate homosexuality? If so, then you must think homosexuality is morally questionable. If you think it’s morally benign, then you don’t tolerate it. You agree with it. We don’t “tolerate” people who share our views. They’re on our side.
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February 21, 2013 12:36pm
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/8331526/Morgans-attack-on-cats-extends-to-SPCA-staff

“Ms Stephens, who roared up to the meeting in her Makara Cattery-emblazoned car, said possums were a far worse problem than cats, and Dr Morgan should focus on bigger issues.

“I don’t get this guy, doesn’t he have anything better to do? Why doesn’t he go save the whales? We all like birds but these cats – I’ve been in the business nine years and they’re like little people in fur coats . . . they feel like people, they die like people. This guy is crazy.” ”

I laughed until I cried
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February 21, 2013 12:36pm
Kea

Griff (4,325) Says:
February 21st, 2013 at 11:07 am
You will all screech like fucked pigs…those greedy fucks…denial nutjobs
The ratio of denial to rational on climate change runs about four to one to the denial nutjobs.

Over looking Griffs charming turns of phrase, he often claims that the majority of people support his increasingly marginalised following. Yet here he is claiming 75% of people are “screeching like fucked pigs… greedy fucks…denial nutjobs”

But what about the rest of the world ? Are they “”screeching like fucked pigs… greedy fucks…denial nutjobs”

only a few countries have signed on to extending Kyoto I, which FOCUS calls a “minimal compromise”. Only 37 of 194 countries signed on. That means the treaty is internationally non-binding.
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February 21, 2013 12:37pm
Griff

http://www.flickr.com/photos/darryltoon/5255661085/
😆
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February 21, 2013 12:40pm
Ryan Sproull

Question: are you tolerant of homosexuals or gay marriage? Then really, you don’t agree with either, as we only tolerate things we don’t agree with, as one author points out –

People act in ways of which you disapprove, Fletch. Welcome to adulthood. You eat meat? I disapprove. I tolerate you. Somehow I manage.
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February 21, 2013 12:43pm
Kea

Griff (4,326) Says:

February 21st, 2013 at 12:40 pm

Nice conspiracy cartoon Griff. Do you think BIG OIL agents are monitoring your posts on KB ?
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February 21, 2013 12:50pm
Harriet

Ezette# “…..Probably something to do with lesbians and you know, lesbians are evil…”

Lesbians, mostly, are angry.

Ali Mua since she ‘came out’, has become more and more angry by the month – and it ain’t her period. [Maybe it is as there are now 2 periods in her house. 😎 ]

I believe the reason most lesbians get angry, firstly at everyone else, then eventually at each other, is due to their need of ‘strapon sex’. A strapon is a true replica of a penis.

As people know, lesbians don’t have a penis, but lesbians -true lesbians- shouldn’t need a replacement for a penis because they are lesbians: They like women – penisless people.

To be ‘fulfilled’ by a lesbian partner with a ‘strapon’ eventually dawns the realisation that it is insulting to the other lesbian: She is not really wanted at that moment of ‘need’. A penis is. That evil ‘man thing’. 😎
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February 21, 2013 12:56pm
Weihana

Manolo (9,079) Says:
February 21st, 2013 at 12:04 pm

..but that wouldn’t justify limiting them to 2% of the population.

I reckon 0.00000% would be much better.

The decimal places are redundant. Thought you should know. 🙂
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February 21, 2013 12:58pm
nasska

Kea & Griff

You’re both wrong. 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ykyv1civyhe5ke/climate%202.jpg
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February 21, 2013 12:59pm
Griff

Lol
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February 21, 2013 1:04pm
Kea

nasska, if God supported climate change he would have made the weather warmer and not left it static for the past 16 years. Doh ! 😉
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February 21, 2013 1:13pm
Megatron

http://nzh.tw/10866829

Free education for prisoners in jails…that’s on top of free board and food.
No wonder the prisons are full!
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February 21, 2013 1:17pm
Griff

“Genesis 8:22 that I use [in The Greatest Hoax] is that as long as the Earth remains there will be springtime, harvest, cold and heat, winter and summer, day and night. My point is, God’s still up there, and the arrogance of people who think that we, human beings, would be able to change what he is doing in the climate is to me outrageous.”
Senator James M. Inhofe .R.
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February 21, 2013 1:20pm
Kea

Griff (4,327) Says:
February 21st, 2013 at 11:07 am

Griff is starting to sound more like (a late evening) bereal every day. He is having abusive melt downs fueled by intoxicants and has even started telling us all off, in expletive laden outbursts, for “thumbing him down”.

So much for his (self described) scientific logical super brain.
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February 21, 2013 1:24pm
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

Thats right Megatron!
I was thinking of robbing a bank this afternoon to get some of that sweet Open Polytechnic action
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February 21, 2013 1:36pm
nasska

Kea

It still beats the stuffing out of David Bain & God’s little crawlers telling us how to live our lives.

Bring back Griff! 🙂
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February 21, 2013 1:38pm
Griff

Bring back he who must not be named!
……….eh…….
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February 21, 2013 1:48pm
RightNow

Griff

Right now.
The cost quoted by Bloombergs was for new generation.

Q Why do you fuss on the cost of existing generation when that has nothing to do with the costs of building new plant?

Because it highlights the rort – there is existing cheap energy, $40/MWH. The AGW industry wants to make it more than triple in cost to $140/MWH

A Because you did not actually understand what I posted just read green energy is cheaper. then trotted of to the usual sources of misinformation for a little conformation bias.

Turd, you have the comprehension problem. I read and understood perfectly. Green energy is not currently cheaper – get that through your turd brain. It will only be cheaper by artificially increasing the cost of coal and gas generation. As for ‘the usual sources of misinformation’
I referred to a report by the Australian Productivity Commission:
http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/109921/13-carbon-prices-appendixd.pdf

And an article from The Australian.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/power-bills-high-but-wholesale-prices-low/story-e6frg6nf-1226307710489

You on the other hand published a study by Bloomberg New Energy Finance, who are profiting significantly from the AGW industry. In 8 years they’ve grown from a few staff in one office to over 200 staff around the world. What possible motivation could they have for publishing anything that doesn’t promote AGW alarm and the renewables industry?

As Kea asked, and you avoided answering (like a climate scientologist dodging an FOI request) – how would they make money if AGW wasn’t seen to be a problem?

Turd.
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February 21, 2013 1:48pm
Pete George

Harriet at 11.45 am listed some survey results including:

“In Britain, a survey last month showed that the public regard immigration as the biggest issue facing British society.”

No indication yet who did the survey, what the questions were and how it was run.

A survey has just been published about what warries New Zealanders about the world, with very different reults:

New Zealanders are three times as likely to think the world is getting worse than that it’s getting better, a new survey has found.

The online survey of 1000 New Zealanders by Australian firm Lonergan Research has found that 50 per cent of New Zealanders think the world is a worse place today than when they were younger, and only 17 per cent think it’s better.

That matches what some say here.

People who thought the world was a worse place today were asked whether they thought this was because of more automation, less human interaction, people becoming more self-centred and greedy, moral decline, more corruption, people becoming lazier, the economy getting worse, more natural disasters or something else.

The most popular answers were that:
– people were becoming more self-centred and greedy 80%
– moral decline 69%
– the economy getting worse (64%
– less human interaction 60%

Half (49%) still felt part of “a close-knit community” and only 46% don’t know most of their neighbours, implying that more than half do.

New Zealanders’ biggest fears for the next 80 years were environmental:
– 84% were concerned that the variety of wildlife might disappear
– 77% cent were concerned that enjoying the great outdoors might disappear.

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/246652/kiwis-think-worlds-getting-worse-survey
http://www.lonerganresearch.com.au/

No mention of immigration, religion or marriage equality there.
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February 21, 2013 1:51pm
Kea

nasska (5,702) Says:

February 21st, 2013 at 1:38 pm
Kea

It still beats the stuffing out of David Bain & God’s little crawlers telling us how to live our lives.

Bring back Griff!

Hear hear !! 🙂
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February 21, 2013 2:04pm
Griff

New plants right now
If you build in coal cost more
We are using more and more power
We need to build new plants
Even without the carbon huha
The price of new wind generation per kwh is cheaper than coal
It will also be harder to finance new coal plants as the banks will factor in the long term risk of investment in a sunset industry.
Go look up how much coal the USA and Australia use for electrical generation.
These plants will need replacing as they age as well new capacity built due to rising demand.
It is cheaper to build new generation capacity in wind according to Bloomberg http://www.bloomberg.com/ are they ripping us of in this hoax?
As well as
Lloyds http://www.lloyds.com/news-and-insight/risk-insight/reports/climate-change/climate-change-and-security
The epa http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/basics/
The science academy http://nas-sites.org/americasclimatechoices/new-resources-about-climate-change/
The Australian government http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/Browse_by_Topic/ClimateChange/effects/Security
All in on your conspiracy?
It gets bigger by the day 😆 Wing nuts.
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February 21, 2013 2:09pm
Weihana

RightNow (4,942) Says:
February 21st, 2013 at 1:48 pm

Turd, you have the comprehension problem. I read and understood perfectly. Green energy is not currently cheaper – get that through your turd brain. It will only be cheaper by artificially increasing the cost of coal and gas generation.

Solar will get cheaper because of improvements in efficiency and decreases in cost. This has been happening for 30 years and it has been happening at an exponential rate. Solar power is on an exponential growth curve and like many examples of exponential growth before it people will underestimate its influence until it is ubiquitous and taken for granted, just as the internet is today.
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February 21, 2013 2:15pm
Manolo

As crook as his father: http://michellemalkin.com/2013/02/20/jesse-jackson-jr-guilty/
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February 21, 2013 2:18pm
liarbors a joke

..but we will set aside another 30 million for you on top of the billions and billions you have already extorted

..http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8334846/Government-turns-down-Maori-spectrum-claim
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February 21, 2013 2:28pm
RightNow

Griff, Weihana. Two words:

Shale gas
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February 21, 2013 2:29pm
dime

“As people know, lesbians don’t have a penis, but lesbians -true lesbians- shouldn’t need a replacement for a penis because they are lesbians: They like women – penisless people.

To be ‘fulfilled’ by a lesbian partner with a ‘strapon’ eventually dawns the realisation that it is insulting to the other lesbian: She is not really wanted at that moment of ‘need’. A penis is. That evil ‘man thing’”

insulting?

maybe one chick finds it hot to strap on a big black cock and pound the hell out of her gf?

Dime has watched enough lesbian porn to know strap ons are hot 🙂
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February 21, 2013 2:38pm
Kea

The price of new wind generation per kwh is cheaper than coal

Absolute rubbish. Even with the AGW inspired punitive taxes placed on coal and the massive taxper subsidies for wind, there is no comparison. Many of the taxes are hidden, as the alarmists know full well. that another wind mill would never be built if the public knew the true cost of the electricity.

As I have previously posted, enormous oil reserves have been located all over the world recently, along with gas. There is no shortage and we have not even started on the resourses in the Antartic yet.
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February 21, 2013 2:41pm
James Stephenson

Pete, is there any point in comparing what worries New Zealand about the world, with what worries the British about their own country?
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February 21, 2013 2:42pm
Pete George

Good to see a line being drawn here:

No 4G spectrum for Maori, says Govt
The Government says it will not set aside any spectrum for Maori when it auctions it off later this year.

Some Maori had made claims to the spectrum and one source this afternoon said the Government’s decision could leave it open to High Court action or claims to the Waitangi Tribunal.

” The Government recognises the importance of Maori having opportunities to participate in the ICT sector, however, in keeping with the view of successive governments that spectrum is not a taonga, in our view it does not follow that Maori require further spectrum to be set aside in order to meet our shared objectives of the protection of language and culture,” Adams said today.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10866848
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February 21, 2013 2:47pm
Griff

I have failed to answer your question because you are playing chicken and egg.
Your logic is because we spend money on researching a problem the scientist are corrupted.
This ignores the fact that the green house effect was documented a while ago in 1890 or so. Science has continued to build on this early work.
Scientific theory postulated the rising green house effect of co2 before we started looking at the evidence.
Surprisingly enough the evidence contained in both the temperature record and in the world around us points to this being true.
Early projections are still accurate in what is a new and evolving science.
Climate science does not only involve climate scientist it involves all the hard sciences. are they all corrupt the 30,000 plus scientists?

You propose that spending money to explore this very real risk is wasted. To me that smacks strongly of ostrich behavior.
That or major Luddite anti science thoughts. 😆

Lets debate your conspiracy.
All the agency’s and governments and industry’s involved. how are they sucked in? are guys like James Taylor from heartland or A Watts smarter than all the people in these organizations or are they all corrupted by money?

Who plans this massive hoax?
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February 21, 2013 2:48pm
Pete George

James Stephenson – is there any point in comparing what worries a few people on paranoic web sites with what isn’t a problem in New Zealand?
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February 21, 2013 2:50pm
graham

I imagine Harriet was talking about this survey:

http://www.britishfuture.org/publication/state-of-the-nation-2013/

Carried out by the thinktank British Future, entitled “State of the Nation: Where is Bittersweet Britain Heading?”. British Future describe themselves as “an independent, non-partisan thinktank seeking to involve people in an open conversation, which addresses people’s hopes and fears about identity and integration, migration and opportunity, so that we feel confident about Britain’s future.” They are a not-for-profit organisation, and their sources of funding are listed on the website if you’re interested.
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February 21, 2013 2:53pm
James Stephenson

is there any point in comparing what worries a few people on paranoic web sites with what isn’t a problem in New Zealand?

If one has any interest in learning from others’ mistakes and avoiding repeating them, yes.

Here’s your survey: http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/migobs/Public%20Opinion-Overall%20Attitudes%20and%20Level%20of%20Concern.pdf

Or it could be that one graham has above
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February 21, 2013 2:57pm
graham

Hmm … the University of Oxford, James? Definitely a “paranoic web site”.

🙂
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February 21, 2013 3:06pm
graham

Key Points

General reactions to immigration can be examined by using public opinion data, but such responses may be based in part upon confusion about categories of migrants both among the public and in the questions they are asked.

Approximately ¾ of British people favour reducing immigration, on most recent surveys and polls.

Large majorities in Britain have been opposed to immigration since at least the 1960s.

Immigration is currently highly salient: over the past 15 years it has become one of the most commonly chosen “most important issues”.

Close to 70% in a 2001 poll supported more migration among those with needed skills, and those with financial support for themselves or from family members, but more data are needed on this topic.

Immigration is generally unpopular.

Despite uncertainties involved in measuring and interpreting public opinion, the evidence clearly shows high levels of opposition to immigration in the UK. In recent surveys, majorities of respondents think that there are too many migrants in the UK, that fewer migrants should be let in to the country, and that legal restrictions on immigration should be tighter.
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February 21, 2013 3:10pm
Kea

All the agency’s and governments and industry’s involved. how are they sucked in?

They are not sucked in Griff. You are.

“only a few countries have signed on to extending Kyoto I, which FOCUS calls a “minimal compromise”. Only 37 of 194 countries signed on. That means the treaty is internationally non-binding.”
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February 21, 2013 3:12pm
eszett

Harriet (1,092) Says:
February 21st, 2013 at 12:56 pm

Lesbians, mostly, are angry.

LOL, unlike you, Harriet? Always calm and collected, aren’t you now?
Mention “gay” here and your can see your veins throbbing.
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February 21, 2013 3:21pm
Pete George

Despite uncertainties involved in measuring and interpreting public opinion, the evidence clearly shows high levels of opposition to immigration in the UK. In recent surveys, majorities of respondents think that there are too many migrants in the UK, that fewer migrants should be let in to the country, and that legal restrictions on immigration should be tighter.

I don’t know if there would be high levels of opposition to immigrants here (quite possibly) but there would be significant numbers who have similar concerns here.

But I’d be surprised if it was a common “most important issue’ here, it didn’t figure at all in the New Zealand survey.

It’s funny, because (albeit in quite different historical situations) both Britain and New Zealand consist mostly of immigrants.

Is it common that once imigrants are in they don’t want any other bugger to have the same opportunity?
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February 21, 2013 3:27pm
bereal

Bravo, New Zealand First shows some gumption. ( a first time for everything)

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/nz-first-mp-drafts-bill-ban-street-prostitution-5348112

This would appear to be a major step in the right direction since the Prostitution Reform Bill which was brought in
by Labours gay MP from Christchurch, whose name escapes me for the moment, the bloke who has since thankfully
buggered off back to the UK.

Legalising street prostitition was a step that ranked as almost as stupid as Phil Goffs effort to legalise sex
between adults and 12 year olds.
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February 21, 2013 3:43pm
Pete George

If we didn’t have immigration we would have a population probl;em (the Greens might like it).

Components of population change in the five years to 30 June 2012
Natural increase + 169,256
– Live births + 314,920
– Deaths – 145,664
Net migration + 34,427
– Arrivals + 424,213
– Departures– 389,786

http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/snapshots-of-nz/nz-in-profile-2013/demography.aspx

Population would be dropping drastically without immigration.
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February 21, 2013 3:48pm
Andrei

Labours gay MP from Christchurch, escapes me for the moment

His name is Tim Barnett and he was “married” to an Anglican Vicar who is currently, I believe, a guest of her majesty for embezzeling several hundred thousand dollars from AUT

You couldn’t make this stuff up if you tried.

And he is back, he is currently secretary general of the New Zealand Labour Party so I’m told
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February 21, 2013 3:53pm
RightNow

“Early projections are still accurate in what is a new and evolving science.”

Projections of 0.3 deg C per decade are considered accurate when actual was < 0.18 deg C per decade, even below the lower limit of the uncertainty range?

"Climate science does not only involve climate scientist it involves all the hard sciences. "
You mean like geoscientists and engineers?
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February 21, 2013 3:57pm
bereal

You’re right about one thing Andrei, you couldn’t make this stuff up if you tried.

i see Barnett was, in the interim, before returning to ‘work’ for Labour, working to help contain Aids.

His success may be measured by the fact that 1 in 20 male homosexuals in New Zealand is now infected
with aids. ( i refrained from using the term ‘riddled’ to avoid causeing offence to any of the poor sods who are now carriers.)
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February 21, 2013 4:04pm
Griff

As usual right now a cherry pick
you forgot to add the range of there prediction not just the highpoint
Since IPCC’s first report in 1990, assessed projections have suggested global average temperature increases between about 0.15°C and 0.3°C per decade for 1990 to 2005. This can now be compared with observed values of about 0.2°C per decade, strengthening confidence in near-term projections. {1.2, 3.2}

Mann you know the actual scientist not a lawyer from heartland says
The trends for the period 1984 to 2012 (the 1984 date chosen because that is when these projections started), scenario B has a trend of 0.29+/-0.04ºC/dec (95% uncertainties, no correction for auto-correlation). For the GISTEMP and HadCRUT4, the trends are 0.18 and 0.17+/-0.04ºC/dec respectively. For reference, the trends in the CMIP3 models for the same period have a range 0.21+/-0.16 ºC/dec (95%).

As discussed in Hargreaves (2010), while this simulation was not perfect, it has shown skill in that it has out-performed any reasonable naive hypothesis that people put forward in 1988 (the most obvious being a forecast of no-change). However, concluding much more than this requires an assessment of how far off the forcings were in scenario B. That needs a good estimate of the aerosol trends, and these remain uncertain. This should be explored more thoroughly, and I will try and get to that at some point.

Seems the effect of china burning all the coal was not projected in 1984

still I really are bored with links to claim and counter claim
I would much rather explore your conspiracy theory
Is the government using chem trials to heat the atmosphere to produce warming so they can keep the myth going?
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February 21, 2013 4:26pm
Weihana

RightNow (4,944) Says:
February 21st, 2013 at 2:29 pm

Griff, Weihana. Two words:

Shale gas

By all means… but shale gas is always going to be limited in supply. Solar energy on the other hand is abundant and no matter how many wells you find it isn’t going to keep pace with exponential progress in the ability to harness that abundant solar energy. Solar Power may only account for 1% of global energy production at present but in exponential terms that’s halfway to 100%. Of course you might say that exponential progress will not go on forever. People have been saying that about computers for a long time as well.
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February 21, 2013 4:39pm
RightNow

“As usual right now a cherry pick”
Yes, I cherry picked the first IPCC assessment report from all the possible “Early projections”. Would James Hansen’s 1988 predictions have been a better option? Let me know, I’d be delighted to point out how well that’s worked out 🙂

“you forgot to add the range of there prediction not just the highpoint”
did you miss this: “even below the lower limit of the uncertainty range“?
Range of prediction: 0.2 to 0.5 deg C per decade. Observed: <0.18 deg C per decade.

Turd.
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February 21, 2013 5:01pm

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