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February 1, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 1 February 2013

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Pete George

Compiled from speeches yesterday – Tributes to Lockwood Smith from parliament

And Congratulations to new speaker David Carter
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February 1, 2013 8:01am
Pete George

In case you missed it last night, if true this would have to be dumb even for Mallard, and even dumber of Shearer to go along with it:

Mallard made a run for speaker today. He and the Labour leadership tried to keep the fact he was running secret right to the last moment. Why not run an honest, open campaign? Because a vote on speaker can only be made by MPs physically present in the chamber. No proxies.

Mallard’s plan was to stay quiet so National MPs wouldn’t think there was a competition and, so, wouldn’t bother to show up to the chamber – with no question time today ministers would book other appointments and MPs would head back to their electorates. To try to keep it secret, the old guard went so far as to not even tell their own caucus until last night, despite having told the support parties days before.* (ouch!)

If it had gone to plan, with all the Labour, Green, and NZF MPs would have been present, National would have been short and Mallard would have the numbers to sneak in.

http://yournz.org/2013/01/31/would-a-mallard-be-this-quackers/

Mallard would be a highly contentious speaker anyway, but to think they could sneak him in like this is unbelievable.

As it turns out there were 62 votes for David Carter so National had organised themselves properly anyway.
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February 1, 2013 8:07am
bhudson

@PG,

And that just reinforces why Labour remain in the same disarray they have been in since 2008. With no brighter future on the horizon for them.
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February 1, 2013 8:13am
liarbors a joke

And they still released it into the community…unbelievable

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8248649/Violent-criminal-Tasered-on-day-of-release
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February 1, 2013 8:24am
liarbors a joke

Easy answer..ditch the dog and go back to Datacom. Why do we pay these prats?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8248631/No-easy-answers-in-teacher-pay-debacle
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February 1, 2013 8:26am
Elaycee

@LAJ 8.24am: They had no option – he had to be released as he had reached the end of his sentence.

But I think the moron in question will be back behind bars soon – he’s a ticking time bomb. 🙁
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February 1, 2013 8:29am
liarbors a joke

As somebody mentioned in the article, what if an unsuspecting member of the public runs into it. Its as bad as an out of control pit bull being let loose. Why we just don’t bullet these scum is beyond me.
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February 1, 2013 8:35am
dime

Gilbert Gottfried reads 50 Shades of Grey –

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5K1RcKJVbHA

might be old but i laughed.
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February 1, 2013 9:03am
laworder

If only we had a politician like this here – Iain Duncan Smith in the UK faces an issue that we also have here;

Why higher benefits won’t solve child poverty: Duncan Smith says addict parents will ‘waste cash on drink and drugs’

“Parental addiction, not income, is main reason for child poverty
Even ‘an extra pound’ could push families further into difficulties if money is spent on drugs and alcohol, Iain Duncan Smith warns”

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271018/Why-higher-benefits-wont-solve-child-poverty-Duncan-Smith-says-addict-parents-waste-cash-drink-drugs.html

Regards
Peter J
see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
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February 1, 2013 9:06am
trout

I am surprised there has been little comment on the efforts of the Chief Justice yesterday to dictate Government policy. As an unelected official her job is to uphold the law, not to interfere with the decisions of elected representatives.
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February 1, 2013 9:19am
krazykiwi

Apparently there’s a wordwide surplus of wine. I’m doing my bit to correct this.
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February 1, 2013 9:26am
Manolo

Griff must be deeply hurt by the unfair treatment of his hero: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/al-gore-book-tour-87003.html?hp=l12
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February 1, 2013 9:32am
southtop

Newstalkzb reporting Sir Paul Holmes passed away this morning
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February 1, 2013 9:37am
Kea

Manolo, Griff has “faith” and will never renounce his belief, no matter how many prophets may fall.

[This post sponsored by Schlumberger]
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February 1, 2013 9:45am
Lance

RIP Paul Holmes
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February 1, 2013 9:46am
Pete George

trout – I noticed that, remarkable.

But she only suggested changing how much to sell. Perhaps today she will suggest how many SOEs to float, when to float them and what to value the shares at.
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February 1, 2013 10:05am
krazykiwi

If you’d suspected Pete’s early link whoring in General Debate was a bit more prevalent in the last few days, you’d be right:

Fri01 1st and 2nd post
Thu31 1st post
Wed30 2nd post
Tue29 1st
Mon28 3rd
Sun27 1st
Sat26 2nd
Fri25 9th
Thu24 4th
Wed23 10th
Tue22 –
Mon21 1st
Sun20 –
Sat19 –
Fri18 –
Thu17 –
Wed16 –
Tue15 –
Mon14 –
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February 1, 2013 10:11am
Keeping Stock

Quite so Lance; love him or loathe him, he was a brilliant broadcaster.

Arohanui Sir Paul.
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February 1, 2013 10:15am
iMP

OH PU-LEESE. we’re expected to believe gay teenagers are committing suicide because they can’t marry eachother! That’s a good one. Using suicide to help push the gay political cause is reprehensible.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/02/01/using-suicide-to-push-gay-cause-reprehensible/
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February 1, 2013 10:19am
Viking2

liarbors a joke (360) Says:
February 1st, 2013 at 8:26 am

Easy answer..ditch the dog and go back to Datacom. Why do we pay these prats?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8248631/No-easy-answers-in-teacher-pay-debacle

Answer
Datacom gave 5 years notice to quit.
Prat.
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February 1, 2013 10:20am
cha

Attention whore whores his hate.
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February 1, 2013 10:23am
Pete George

KK – not sure what your point is. Yes, I get up early and I’m active on various blogs – and usually add too or initiate comment on topical issues. And by the look of link stats many people don’t seem to mind.

If everyone who had a wee hissy aimed at them stopped contributing it would be fairly empty here, wouldn’t it.
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February 1, 2013 10:34am
krazykiwi

There are plenty of contributors here Pete, but few of them post as many links to their own blog as you do. No matter, I appreciate your posts – morseo than when we regularly locked horns a few years back.
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February 1, 2013 10:42am
krazykiwi

As carbon markets collapse, Deutsche Bank exits, and two of their board members are in trouble:

Two board members at Deutsche Bank, including the lender’s co-chief executive, have been drawn into a police investigation into tax evasion related to the group’s carbon trading business.

Oh, and carbon is a bit grim here too:

NZ carbon finds new record lows amid stable supply

BEIJING, Jan 31 (Reuters Point Carbon) – Spot permits in the New Zealand Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) fell 6.5 percent week-on-week to close Thursday at NZ$2.45 ($2.05), the lowest weekly closing price ever recorded as fresh supply continued to find its way to the market.
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February 1, 2013 10:43am
Pete George

And KK – you could have used your research skills much more productively than that, for example you could have listed temperatures recorded over the last couple weeks and then explained how it has got little or nothing to do with climate change.

I saw somewhere that a similar weather pattern occurred in 1973. I remember that well, my first summer after I left school and I had an outside job from early December (the previous year) through to March. The only day there was enough rain to prevent work happened to be the only day I had off to go to the races and that was cancelled. It was dry as for the rest of the summer.
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February 1, 2013 10:45am
krazykiwi

you could have listed temperatures recorded over the last couple weeks and then explained how it has got little or nothing to do with climate change.

Everyone already knows that 🙂

… but are fair challenge re research.
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February 1, 2013 10:48am
Pete George

FFS, this is supposedly a journalist:

David Fisher ‏@DFisherJourno

Confirmed: Ministry of Education is going to release a mass of Novopay information today AND Sir Paul Holmes has died. #coincidence?

Is he suggesting Holmes chose today on purpose?
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February 1, 2013 10:51am
RF

Paul… Rest in Peace the battle is over
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February 1, 2013 10:59am
RightNow

KK- at least the crash in carbon permit prices will save some of the cash we’re sending overseas:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7412785/NZ-vents-170m-under-ETS

At least the high exchange rate mitigates this somewhat, but really this is just money sent out of our economy for nothing.
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February 1, 2013 11:05am
Paulus

Hasn’t anybody realised that Datacom the predecessor of Novopay was a disaster too.
Why did Trevor Mallard and Chris Carter as Education Ministers, with the ok from the Labour cabinet seek a new system.

Datacom people waited 5 years to get rid of the Education Department listings. It was universally unpopular, and I cannot see it being brought back under any reasonable circumstances.

Novopay is a politically motivated stuff up. One simple (couldn’t be deliberate?) human error on Tuesday (wrong date input by one person) led to the staff payments being left out.
“Get Parata” (and any other National Government Education Minister). Kharma !!!

Solution easy – let schools handle teachers payments.
Remember there are 50,000 Teachers and 40,000 Education Others in this payroll.
There are 13 Union awards and as many as 10,000 applications to thisd payroll.
And they are forever changing, as each Union award piggyback on each other at different times.
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February 1, 2013 11:08am
RRM

Pete George –

I dunno… maybe Fisher should go around to the grieving household, thrust a microphone under the first upset-looking face he finds, and ask “HOW DOES IT MAKE YOU FEEL?

(Too soon, I know.. I say it here in GD so as to leave the inevitable Paul Holmes RIP thread clean.)
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February 1, 2013 11:08am
graham

Pete, I rather suspect he’s suggesting it the other way around. That the Ministry of Education chose to release the information on Novapay when they heard that Sir Paul Holmes had died knowing that the media will concentrate on Sir Paul’s death, and thus hoping that the Novapay information will fly under the radar. But the Min of Ed will be able to say, “See, we have been transparent and released information, it’s not our fault that the media largely ignored it.”
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February 1, 2013 11:09am
krazykiwi

Got some research that needs funding? Why not get multiple funding agencies to fund the same project.

Scientists may have received millions in duplicate funding, study says January 30, 2013 by Aleta Delaplane

Funding agencies may be paying out duplicate grants, according to an analysis completed at the Virginia Bioinformatics Institute at Virginia Tech and led by Harold R. Garner, a professor in the departments of biological science, computer science, and basic science. The study points to the possibility that millions of dollars in funding may have been used inappropriately.
:::
“It is quite possible that our detection software missed many cases of duplication,” Garner said. “If text similarity software misses as many cases of funding duplications as it does plagiarism of scientific papers we’ve studied, then the extent of duplication could be much larger. It could be as much as 2.5 percent of total research funding, equivalent to $5.1 billion since 1985.”
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February 1, 2013 11:10am
david

Viking2 – After 3 months of nil processing the Datacom system (which BTW was a dog in its own right hence the need for a new system) database would now be useless – No ……… worse than useless as it would contain unfixed errors from its last processing. Going back to it is nigh on impossible. Any system that takes 5 years to write (presumably after a year of so of specifying) has got to be absurdly complex and obviously not able to be replaced by anything off the shelf,

I suspect part of the issue is the lack of individuals who have the knowledge of how the multitude of agreements have been interpreted and applied as these interpretations have to be built in to the new system where they become institutionalised and again lost as far as personal knowledge is concerned.

Yes, a nightmare indeed and I don’t envy the people charged with fixing it. John Key may be able to say, “I want it fixed” and the teachers unions may demand a date on which it will be fixed, but the individuals who have to deliver a fix must be tearing their hair out.
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February 1, 2013 11:12am
krazykiwi

Hasn’t anybody realised that Datacom the predecessor of Novopay was a disaster too.

Yup. Mrs kk was a teacher back then and school and hours-per-week changes regularly led to payroll stuff-ups.
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February 1, 2013 11:12am
Pete George

graham – I’m sure he was digging at the Ministry of Education, as a couple of people surmised in replies to him.

But I think it was a totally inappropriate abuse of the occasion of Holmes’ death to make a cheap unsubstantiated shot, especially for a journalist.

RRM – that’s why I said it here too. I’ve got other things to say in relation to Holmes’ death but this is not a good time for it.
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February 1, 2013 11:28am
cha

Catholic spokesman says gay agenda saved gay dog.

The place where Elton was dropped, Euthanasia Jackson TN, encourages dog adoption, but it also promotes dog euthanasia. Not, however, in Elton’s case: the shelter has no stomach for putting dogs down on the basis of sexual orientation. It must be said, though, that the shelter is not exactly inclusive in its policies.

To wit: Had poor Elton not been identified as a homosexual, his heterosexuality would not have been enough to save his hide.

The moral of the story is: Being gay is not only a bonus for humans these days, it is a definite plus for dogs as well. As for straights, the lonely and the disabled, that’s another story altogether.
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February 1, 2013 11:30am
Manolo

..but really this is just money sent out of our economy for nothing.

How can you say that?
The ETS tax is NZ’s greatest contribution to the world, according to the mad Greenie Nick Smith and his boss Smile-and-wave Key.

More taxes to incentivise the economy. Yeah right.
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February 1, 2013 11:31am
Pete George

Viking2 – After 3 months of nil processing the Datacom system (which BTW was a dog in its own right hence the need for a new system) database would now be useless – No ……… worse than useless as it would contain unfixed errors from its last processing. Going back to it is nigh on impossible.

Correct. Payroll calculations rely on totally up to date data. Bringing Datacom up to date would virtually require keying all the pays to date. Time would be much better spent correcting the problems rather than reverting to different problems.

Even if it was feasible to bring Datacom up to date you can be sure there would be many problems highlighted very quickly.
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February 1, 2013 11:33am
Manolo

The flesh is weak: http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/31/dominican-prostitute-senator-bob-menendez-likes-the-youngest-and-newest-girls/
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February 1, 2013 11:41am
Weihana

iMP,

If people are so insecure about being different, or about their sexuality, to the point of ending their lives, they have a mental health issue…

Hmmmm.. how about we change it from being gay to being fat and unattractive. Would you likewise say:

“If people are so insecure about their weight, or about being unattractive, to the point of ending their lives, they have a mental health issue…”

In my view this attitude is a fairly ugly one and essentially you seem to be blaming victims of bullying for being unable to handle it. Their inability to deal with it is their “mental health issue” rather than a consequence of nasty pricks who seek to make people’s lives a misery because they are different.

Human beings are naturally social animals and when we are excluded from the pack because we’re gay, fat, unattractive etc. it is often destructive to a person’s mental health, especially a teenager going through puberty. In my view counseling or drugs to deal with any depression that might have eventuated from such bullying is only treating the symptoms of a more fundamental problem: the lack of a social environment in which people are accepted for who they are.

While it may be true that gay marriage will not stop bullying, I think it is disturbing the manner in which you seem to suggest the root cause is their personal mental health issues rather than the people who have put them in that state through social exclusion.

Young Christians are hassled, mocked, derided and picked on constantly in schools, the media, on TV, for their faith… Christian teenagers don’t commit suicide. They soldier bravely on…

And so those who do commit suicide lack bravery? Of course you fail to provide any quantitative assessment of bullying Christians may suffer. Suffice to say anyone can be picked on for any reason, but I’m not aware of any disproportionate bullying targeting Christians. Indeed given that society is predominantly Christian, the notion that Christian youth are a disproportionately persecuted minority is absurd on its face.

But there’s little evidence that gay teens have a dramatically higher rate of suicide than heterosexual teens. Live Science magazine explored this issue…

The reference merely questions the actual proportion of homosexuals in society but it does not demonstrate that the numerous studies showing disproportionate suicide among gay youth are false. What’s more it’s interesting how conservatives often use the statistic that gays are more prone to suicide in order to argue that homosexuality is inherently unhealthy but now the opposite premise is adopted that gay youth do not suffer from higher rates of suicide to dispense with the notion that there is a problem at all.
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February 1, 2013 12:08pm
Dirty Rat

Slater is posting a picture and rates info on his website of a person who refuses to pay rates..how much was Slaters rates bill this year ?

I would rather a ratepayer posted it
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February 1, 2013 12:10pm
liarbors a joke

NZ dollar continuing its climb against the US…petrol price increase today…Why ?
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February 1, 2013 12:24pm
Weihana

trout (808) Says:
February 1st, 2013 at 9:19 am

I am surprised there has been little comment on the efforts of the Chief Justice yesterday to dictate Government policy. As an unelected official her job is to uphold the law, not to interfere with the decisions of elected representatives.

Are elected officials not also subject to the law? While you may disagree with whatever her ultimate conclusion is, at the very least she is well within her rights to consider whether such decisions are within the law.
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February 1, 2013 12:28pm
Puzzled in Ekatahuna

From The Standard –
Mallard’s plan was to stay quiet so National MPs wouldn’t think there was a competition and, so, wouldn’t bother to show up to the chamber – with no question time today ministers would book other appointments and MPs would head back to their electorates. To try to keep it secret, the old guard went so far as to not even tell their own caucus until last night, despite having told the support parties days before.

Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS –
There is another aspect of the transition that cannot be overlooked. Given the importance of the role of the Speaker as Parliament’s man or woman, we were deeply disappointed that the Government chose not to involve all political parties in any of the background considerations regarding the selection of a new Speaker. We are committed to a well-organised and effective democratic parliamentary process. We would have contributed constructively and thoughtfully to a dialogue around the selection of a new Speaker, which has been the long tradition of this Parliament. We want this House to work and to work well in the interest of our democracy. So it is our view that it would have been consistent with the values and spirit of our democracy for the Government to engage with other parties over the appointment of a new Speaker. This was not done, and there remains outstanding any explanation as to why it was done this way—or even to have a debate today on this very unprecedented selection process.
Hansard – Election of Speaker
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/0/6/1/50HansD_20130131_00000004-Election-of-Speaker.htm
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February 1, 2013 12:46pm
krazykiwi

More Euro laws screwing up an industry:

Airline erupts over volcano ruling

The European Court of Justice has ordered Irish budget airline Ryanair to compensate passengers whose travel plans were thrown into chaos by the 2010 eruption of an Icelandic volcano, in a ruling with implications for the entire industry.

The airline immediately warned that ticket prices even for budget travellers will rise to offset costs from any future extreme events that the company previously considered to be “acts of God” for which it was not financially responsible.

“Today’s decision will materially increase the cost of flying across Europe and consumer airfares will increase as airlines will be obliged to recover the cost of these claims from their customers,” Ryanair said.

The company insisted that “defective European regulation does not allow us to recover such costs from the governments or unions who are responsible for over 95 per cent of flight delays in Europe”.

Terms and condition for travel are very, very clear around liability. Like them or not, travellers accept these terms, or they choose another travel provider. Travellers concerned about the cost of unforeseen events should buy insurance. We all make a decision to insure or not on personal effects, houses, cars, boats etc etc. Travel is no different.

Instead, the Euro-meddlers are intent on putting up airfares for everyone to cover the possibility of the uninsured getting caught short.

And in related news: Pilot locked out of cockpit mid-flight while co-pilot sleeps. Wouldn’t have liked to be a front-row passenger/spectator on that flight!
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February 1, 2013 1:06pm
Elaycee

Dirty Rat asks 12.10pm:

…how much was Slaters rates bill this year?

Not sure why you’re worried about Cam Slater’s rates bill, but I’d suspect its no different to anyone else living in Auckland’s Eastern Suburbs – plenty! But if his rates are of such importance to you, why don’t you ask him? But please don’t be offended and start bleating here if he tells you get stuffed.
>>> Slater’s post related to the demented water woman (Penny Not-So) who thinks its OK that she hasn’t paid her own Council rates for several years! In his post, Slater opined that Ms Dim’s actions are simply attention seeking and he ponders whether her stunt will come back to bite when she sells her property and all overdue rates (including penalties) are assessed and she has to front.

And Slater is not wrong. Bright needs to pay up like anyone else. But if she doesn’t pay, then she shouldn’t bleat if she arrives home from her latest placard waving venture to find her garbage / recycling spread over her driveway and the Council owned wheelie bins have mysteriously disappeared.
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February 1, 2013 1:21pm
Kea

krazykiwi, how much co2 do you think that volcano pumped into the atmosphere ?

“Okay, here’s the bombshell. The current volcanic eruption going on in Iceland, in it’s first week of spewing volcanic ash, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet. Not only that, this single act of God, in it’s first week, has added emissions to the earth estimated to be 42 times more than can be corrected by the extreme human regulations proposed for annual reductions.”
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February 1, 2013 1:45pm
graham

I didn’t see that Whale had put Penny’s rates bill up for all to see – and a photo of her house.

I imagine that as soon as Penny discovers this she will be threatening him with all sorts of legal action, to which Whale I am sure will reply in his inimitable style.

Bring on the popcorn!
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February 1, 2013 1:48pm
Weihana

Kea (1,972) Says:
February 1st, 2013 at 1:45 pm

krazykiwi, how much co2 do you think that volcano pumped into the atmosphere ?

“Okay, here’s the bombshell. The current volcanic eruption going on in Iceland, in it’s first week of spewing volcanic ash, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet. Not only that, this single act of God, in it’s first week, has added emissions to the earth estimated to be 42 times more than can be corrected by the extreme human regulations proposed for annual reductions.”

CO2 is a natural part of Earth’s atmosphere. That is not disputed by anyone. But I think you are being disingenuous by suggesting that natural emissions “negate” reductions in human output. The issue of anthropogenic warming is the notion that humans are *adding* to the existing natural contributions to CO2 in the atmosphere.

Whether or not CO2 forcing on the climate is significant, it would seem beyond much dispute that the vast majority of increases in atmospheric CO2 since industrialization is due to human activities.
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February 1, 2013 2:03pm
Sidey

Elaycee Says at 1:21 pm
Dirty Rat asks 12.10pm:
…how much was Slaters rates bill this year?
Not sure why you’re worried about Cam Slater’s rates bill, but I’d suspect its no different to anyone else living in Auckland’s Eastern Suburbs – plenty!

I suspect Dirty Rat is ever-so-subtly having a dig at Cam Slater no longer owning his house? I stand to be corrected, but I think Cam mentioned a while back that he lost his house in his fight with an insurance company. So DR’s handle is about right.
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February 1, 2013 2:20pm
krazykiwi

it would seem beyond much dispute that the vast majority of increases in atmospheric CO2 since industrialization is due to human activities.

There have been massive natural variations in atmospheric CO2 over time and there is no evidence which suggests this has stopped, nor any which supports the notion that the ‘majority of increases in atmospheric CO2 since industrialization is due to human activities’
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February 1, 2013 2:35pm
krazykiwi

kea – I’ve read differing accounts of the quantity of CO2 emitted by Volcanoes. It’s plenty, but according to some analysis it’s way less that the 5 year statistic quoted. Either way nature that’s in charge, despite our attempts to play God and pretend we’re running the show.
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February 1, 2013 2:39pm
Kea

Weihana, Mans contribution is very small and is lost in the natural variability. Also we are not *adding* anything by-the-way. All the co2 released from fossil fuel came from the atmostphere in the first place, we are simply liberating it. Carbon means ORGANIC. Rotting vegetation has the same effect, of releasing co2 back into the atmosphere from where it came, because it is made up of organic compounds. I read recently of the increase due to seasonal leaf fall and I was surprised by how much co2 that natural event released. The thing to remember is it is “released” not “created” co2

I do not deny that mans activities increase co2 and that effects the climate. My disagreement is on the degree of change .
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February 1, 2013 2:57pm
Kea

kea – I’ve read differing accounts of the quantity of CO2 emitted by Volcanoes. It’s plenty, but according to some analysis it’s way less that the 5 year statistic quoted.

Krazykiwi, I know. I was trying to summons up the Griff with that dodgy cut n’ paste 😉

He posts slanted garbage all the time, so I felt I owed him one.
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February 1, 2013 3:00pm
slijmbal

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10862867

would it be stupid to ask for a journalist with a vague idea of IT and large complex projects

It is obvious that the Novopay project is a major f**k up (even allowing for the politically motivated teacher union bleating).

150 faults on a major software release is actually not a lot if none are priority one and few priority twos.

The comment around test scripts – was it regression testing or actual number of test scripts as if the latter it is much too small

“Mr Joyce said yesterday that ministers Bill English, Hekia Parata and Craig Foss signed off on Novopay, despite knowing there were “bugs” in the system.”

Of course they did – all major releases go live with “bugs” – it is an adage in the software industry that all systems have bugs

etc etc

It was known in the industry that the Datacom system was a “dog” that Datacom made a lot of money from but also known that the Novopay replacement system requirements were silly and unachievable – Novopay foolishly signed up and got it very wrong. They’ve been attempting to limit the damage from this for the last 3 or 4 years.

Forgot to mention Novopay probably signed up for a system that cost too much to build because they figured they would make money post initial implementation
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February 1, 2013 4:05pm
david

Pffffft what garbage gets peddled here at times. Gaia is blind and cannot tell the difference between CO2 derived from organic decomposition and CO2 derived in any other way. Anyhoo I would be keen to have it explained how CO2 from burning petrol (derived from an organic source – oil) is bad when CO2 released from the compost bin in my garden is not bad. FFS, CO2 is CO2 EOS
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February 1, 2013 4:05pm
chiz

Another possible problem with climate models is found. The conventional wisdom is that winds are driven by temperature differences, but now some people are wondering if moisture condensation may play a role. The magnitude of the effect is disputed but, if true, it could explain why climate models don’t get monsoons and hurricanes right.
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February 1, 2013 4:14pm
Kea

it could explain why climate models don’t get monsoons and hurricanes right.

Or the temperatures right, sea level right, increases in ice right, snow fall right, or anything else right.

Nature does not follow IPCC computer models. The models & theory need to change, not nature and not the people basing their ideas on emperical evidence.
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February 1, 2013 4:24pm
thedavincimode

Anyhoo I would be keen to have it explained how CO2 from burning petrol (derived from an organic source – oil) is bad when CO2 released from the compost bin in my garden is not bad.

Duh 🙄

CO2 from oil is bad because oil gets burnt and isn’t renewable and pollutes the planet and that isn’t right and anyway, we shouldn’t be spending money on roads and things. OK? But, and this is an important but, CO2 from compost is green and therefore, good for the planet.

But it’s also important to understand that CO2 released by grass is bad like oil CO2 because cows eat grass and cows are bad for the planet.

(I have to be honest here, I just copied this from my friend at school who wrote an essay about how we need to love the planet. Ms Fossfatter, our teacher with the hairy legs and body odour, was very pleased and gave it an A+.)
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February 1, 2013 4:27pm
Kea

thedavincimode, You are clearly a distinguished “climate scientist” and I can only add to your erudite comments.

The vast herds of millions of grazing animals, in Africa, do NOT emit harmful co2. However the few cows farmed in NZ and other evil capitilist democratic countries, DO emit harmful co2.

Trillons of tons of rotting vegetation in the rain forrest only give off green co2, but the cow cockies silage pit give off planet killing capitilist co2.
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February 1, 2013 4:34pm
david

Thank you dvm, my education is now complete and I can encase my geology and organic chemistry notes in glass (rather than burn them and release more BAD CO2) secure in the knowledge that oil was NOT at some previous date a pile of grass clippings and dead trees, long long before our ancestors started lighting fires and cooking their meat – a dietary change BTW that is attributed to the great leap forward in the intellectual capacity of modern man. Also explains I suppose why vegetarians are retarded and to be pitied even this late on a Friday when I am usually at my generous best and about to get mellow. Pity that fermenting grain with hops etc releases CO2 as a NATURAL part of the chemical process of brewing. Have great weekend
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February 1, 2013 4:36pm
Fletch

Interesting. It looks like Obama’s crowd is trying to sneak through a total ban on any semi-automatic weapon.
So says an expert who has written 10 books on gun law. The crux of the matter is Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s gun-control bill, which would ban any semi-automatic with a “pistol grip” – ie, ALL OF THEM.

The list of specific firearms that would be banned by Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s gun-control bill is a smokescreen for a trick of language that could result in a ban on nearly all semiautomatic guns, according to a gun law expert who has reviewed the proposed legislation.
Most media reports have focused on the already lengthy list of specific firearms the bill would ban, but Alan Korwin, who has written 10 books on gun laws, says the real meaning of the bill is hidden in the list of banned gun components.

The bill’s definition of a “pistol grip” is what concerns Korwin. According to the version of the bill released by Feinstein’s own website, “The term ‘pistol grip’ means a grip, a thumb hole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.” (Emphasis added.)

Korwin warns that since semiautomatic weapons with a “pistol grip” would be prohibited by the legislation, if passed then the law would effectively ban any semiautomatic weapons that can be gripped, which is all of them.

“In other words, the gun list does not matter,” Korwin told WorldNet Daily. “It is a smokescreen designed to distract people from the true meaning of the bill. And it has done a magnificent job. It worked! Any semi-automatic firearm that exists, with anything on it you can grip, is banned. …

“The list is meaningless tripe. It is camouflage for the real purpose of the bill. When the president said he is not going to take away your guns, well, Feinstein’s bill puts the lie to that. Magazine size does not matter. Brand name does not matter. It doesn’t matter if it’s black. If you can grip it, it’s banned under this bill.”

http://godfatherpolitics.com/9248/the-total-gun-ban-hidden-in-feinstein-bill/
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February 1, 2013 4:38pm
Kea

Fletch, In spite of a long association with firearms, I was surprised to learn that the, pistol grip & magazine, are the most dangerous parts !

Those anti gun people really know their stuff.
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February 1, 2013 4:44pm
Fletch

LOL, yeh
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February 1, 2013 4:50pm
thedavincimode

I can encase my geology and organic chemistry notes in glass

That is very responsible if you intend to bury them. We don’t want them turning into coal or in about 5 million years time to then allow some environmental criminal to dig it up to burn it and keep his/her toes warm.

I am also about to release some CO2 into the atmosphere, but this will be green CO2 because the hops will be organic and the product naturally fermented by a bearded artisan craftsman using only organically grown hops that have been fermented naturally using pure mountain spring water transported from the foot of the Andes by horse and cart.

<The vast herds of millions of grazing animals, in Africa, do NOT emit harmful co2. However the few cows farmed in NZ and other evil capitilist democratic countries, DO emit harmful co2.

Yes Kea. That is correct.
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February 1, 2013 4:51pm
Kea

Well I am off to Auckland for the weekend, so no after work co2 creating booze, but the aircraft fuel should make up for it 🙂
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February 1, 2013 4:53pm
Left Right and Centre

I see that the ezine Stuff is leading with a picture of some 7s moron poser’s arse.

Classy…..

What a muppet show that thing is… bunch of boofhead brainless yeehaa disgusting horrid cackling screaming drunkard Auck dorks running around naked like fuckwits all weekend.
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February 1, 2013 4:54pm
Elaycee

Sidey:

I stand to be corrected, but I think Cam mentioned a while back that he lost his house in his fight with an insurance company. So DR’s handle is about right.

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you Sidey?

I don’t recall Cam Slater ever withholding his rates because of some bollocks protest against the price of water. But if you know better, do tell. And even if he was renting (I have no idea), do you not think that a portion of the rent would go towards….. rates?

So stand corrected and stop being a complete cock.
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February 1, 2013 5:00pm
Fletch

Blogger on another blog asks a very good question –

The question of the century, why is it that everyone who has endorsed Obama hates America?

Think about it. Vlad Putin, Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Notice a pattern here?

Why, indeed…
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February 1, 2013 5:31pm
Sidey

Elaycee Says: 5:00 pm
Sidey:
Not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you Sidey?

I don’t recall Cam Slater ever withholding his rates because of some bollocks protest against the price of water. But if you know better, do tell. And even if he was renting (I have no idea), do you not think that a portion of the rent would go towards….. rates? So stand corrected and stop being a complete cock.

??? Not sure why the abuse Elaycee – I’m on your side here! Maybe I didn’t make it clear, or maybe you’re just a naturally snarky individual, or perhaps even a complete knob, I really don’t know. But here goes.

It seemed to me that DR was having a go at Cam Slater by intimating that as he doesn’t own the house he occupies, he has no valid right to comment on someone not paying their rates. That was all I pointed out. Because it’s clearly bollocks. I can’t see where I stated that he had withheld rates? The thought never crossed my mind. And as I assume you say (although as you can see, assuming can be a bit tricky), yes, paying rent in a round-about way contributes to rates being paid.

Clear now?
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February 1, 2013 5:46pm
Sidey

Elaycee Says: 5:00 pm
Sidey:
Not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you Sidey?

For clarification, my comment:

“So DR’s handle is about right” refers to him/her using Dirty Rat as a name, not his comment being right. Clearer still?
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February 1, 2013 5:58pm
Griff

Kea you are talking shit as usual
try and back up your claims

you know actual facts and science not just parrot chess

Little kids make stuff up are you really only eight?

http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/7/4/044035/article
Comparing climate projections to observations up to 2011
Environmental Research Letters

We analyse global temperature and sea-level data for the past few decades and compare them to projections published in the third and fourth assessment reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). The results show that global temperature continues to increase in good agreement with the best estimates of the IPCC, especially if we account for the effects of short-term variability due to the El Niño/Southern Oscillation, volcanic activity and solar variability. The rate of sea-level rise of the past few decades, on the other hand, is greater than projected by the IPCC models. This suggests that IPCC sea-level projections for the future may also be biased low.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/images/Arctic_models_obs.gif
Sea ice extent is IPCC massive fail they underestimated the ice loss by heaps 😆
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February 1, 2013 6:42pm
Manolo

Friday, so it’s time for Jamaican finest, Griff.
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February 1, 2013 6:49pm
hinamanu

UK’s poorest families face hundreds of percent tax rise

Under the UK government’s austerity program millions of low income households are facing a hike in their council tax bills of up to 333% a year. New changes are to be introduced this April, while Scotland and Wales chose not to implement the cuts to benef

The UK benefits system is about to undergo it’s most radical restructuring since the introduction of the welfare state after the Second World War and many families will be pushed further into poverty, a new report by the Resolution Foundation think tank reveals.

http://rt.com/news/tax-rise-uk-poverty-182/
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February 1, 2013 6:54pm
Weihana

krazykiwi (8,691) Says:
February 1st, 2013 at 2:35 pm

…there is no evidence which suggests… that the ‘majority of increases in atmospheric CO2 since industrialization is due to human activities’

Kea (1,979) Says:
February 1st, 2013 at 2:57 pm

Weihana, Mans contribution is very small and is lost in the natural variability. Also we are not *adding* anything by-the-way. All the co2 released from fossil fuel came from the atmostphere in the first place, we are simply liberating it.

And that is precisely why we know that the increase in atmospheric CO2 since Industrialization is primarily anthropogenic.

Stable isotope ratios of the life science elements carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen vary slightly, but significantly in major compartments of the earth. Owing mainly to antropogenic activities including land use change and fossil fuel burning, the 13C/12C ratio of CO2 in the atmosphere has changed over the last 200 years by 1.5 parts per thousand (from about 0.0111073 to 0.0110906). In between interglacial warm periods and glacial maxima, the 18O/16O ratio of precipitation in Greenland has changed by as much as 5 parts per thousand (0.001935–0.001925). While seeming small, such changes are detectable reliably with specialised mass spectrometric techniques. The small changes reflect natural fractionation processes that have left their signature in natural archives. These enable us to investigate the climate of past times in order to understand how the Earth’s climatic system works and how it can react to external forcing. In addition, studying contemporary isotopic change of natural compartments can help to identify sources and sinks for atmospheric trace gases provided the respective isotopic signatures are large enough for measurement and have not been obscured by unknown processes. This information is vital within the framework of the Kyoto process for controlling CO2 emissions.

http://www.bgc.mpg.de/service/iso_gas_lab/publications/PG_WB_IJMS.pdf

Gosh, Prosenjit; Brand, Willi A. (2003)
International Journal of Mass Spectrometry
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February 1, 2013 6:55pm
Weihana

david (2,250) Says:
February 1st, 2013 at 4:05 pm

Pffffft what garbage gets peddled here at times. Gaia is blind and cannot tell the difference between CO2 derived from organic decomposition and CO2 derived in any other way. Anyhoo I would be keen to have it explained how CO2 from burning petrol (derived from an organic source – oil) is bad when CO2 released from the compost bin in my garden is not bad. FFS, CO2 is CO2 EOS

Why is two paracetamol okay but 20 not? Paracetamol is paracetamol?

The point that seems to escape you is that while “Gaia” may not tell the difference between CO2 of different origin, science can and it can tell us where the recent increase in CO2 is coming from.
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February 1, 2013 7:01pm
Weihana

krazykiwi – “Either way nature that’s in charge”
Kea – ” Mans contribution is very small and is lost in the natural variability.”

It’s interesting how the tables have turned. I certainly have doubt about climate sensitivity. Only a few years ago the certainty with which some believers in anthropogenic warming promoted their views and the way they turned climate science into political rhetoric was, in my view, a feature of the “warmists” that wasn’t mirrored to the same extremes among the skeptics. But these days the pendulum has swung very much in the other direction in my view. No longer is skepticism simply about suggesting there is doubt, it has become a religion itself where not only is the science behind AGW questionable but rather skeptics know unequivocally that it’s a “hoax” and that it’s definitely not happening and they leave just as little doubt as the most fervent greenie leaves for the AGW theory.
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February 1, 2013 7:17pm
Pete George

Believe it or not: Shearer Says Parody
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February 1, 2013 7:28pm
Azeraph

There hasn’t been a co2 spike event like now in our history on this planet so, using proxy data when was the last one and what happened? Was there a species that added co2 to the atmosphere using combustible exchange during said event?

We don’t frikkin know what’s coming do we?
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February 1, 2013 7:29pm
Pete George

I felt sorry for the hypnotist I saw last night, he hypnotized seven guys.

Then he dropped the microphone on his foot and he yelled “Fuck me!”

What happened next will haunt me for the rest of my life.
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February 1, 2013 7:31pm
Griff

Were Andrei and Fletch there? That would really make my day
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February 1, 2013 7:49pm
Viking2

Pete. We pray desparately that you were not one of those guys.
But, if you were, then the Holy Father will find a place for you.
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February 1, 2013 7:49pm
Viking2

Which reminds me we should tell this story so that you remain careful.

A Scottish Soldier, in full dress uniform,

marches into a pharmacy.

Very carefully he opens his sporran
and pulls out a neatly folded cotton bandana, then
unfolds it to reveal a smaller silk square handkerchief,
which he also unfolds –
to reveal a condom.

The condom has a number of patches on it.

The chemist holds it up and eyes it critically.

“How much to repair it?’ The Scot asks the chemist.

“Six pence” says the chemist.

“How much for a new one?”

“Ten pence” says the chemist..

The Scot painstakingly folds the condom into the
silk square handkerchief
and the cotton bandana, replaces it carefully in his sporran,
and marches out of the door,
shoulders back and kilt swinging.

A moment or two later the chemist hears a great shout go up outside,
followed by an even greater shout.

The Scottish soldier marches back into the chemists
and addresses the proprietor, this time with a grin on his face.

“The regiment has taken a vote,” he says.
�We’ll have a new one.”
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February 1, 2013 7:51pm
nasska

Although he was a qualified meteorologist, Hopkins ran up
a terrible record of forecasting for the TV news program. He
became something of a local joke when a newspaper began
keeping a record of his predictions and showed that he’d
been wrong almost three hundred times in a single year.

That kind of notoriety was enough to get him fired.

He moved to another part of the country and applied for a
similar job. One blank on the job application called for
the reason for leaving his previous position.

Hopkins wrote, “The climate didn’t agree with me.”
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February 1, 2013 8:05pm
Steve (North Shore)

Kea @ 4.53

Well I am off to Auckland for the weekend, so no after work co2 creating booze, but the aircraft fuel should make up for it

Please don’t tell the rest of NZ about how fantastic Auckalnd is, or they will all want to move here and take advantage of the soaring property prices; especially those wankers from Wellywood
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February 1, 2013 8:49pm
nasska

A man wakes up, looks out the window and can’t believe it. The Prophesy was true, the end of the world is upon mankind……then he remembered that he lived in South Auckland.
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February 1, 2013 8:53pm
Steve (North Shore)

Ouch.
Wonder about those in Pori Creek
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February 1, 2013 9:15pm
Reid

http://tomatobubble.com/id199.html
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February 1, 2013 9:16pm
Azeraph

Reid (12,894) Says:
February 1st, 2013 at 9:16 pm

What do you think about the trithilon stones?
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February 1, 2013 9:26pm
Viking2

Perth uni students turn to ‘sugar daddies’

A US-based dating website says it is helping hundreds of Perth students pay for university by connecting them with willing “sugar daddies”.

The website, SeekingArrangement.com, has released a list entitled “Australia’s Top 20 Fastest Growing Sugar Baby Colleges of 2012”, which shows the universities where alternative fee-help is most frequently sought.
Advertisement

Western Australia’s main four universities; Curtin University, Edith Cowan, The University of Western Australia and Murdoch, respectively, all make the list.

Read more: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/perth-uni-students-turn-to-sugar-daddies-20130201-2doim.html#ixzz2JdOiSeyt
Perth uni students turn to ‘sugar daddies’

Should we can student loans and insist upon these arrangemts?
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February 1, 2013 9:35pm
Reid

I don’t know Azeraph as I haven’t heard of them before you mentioned them and thank you, I will look into them.

What do you think of the Coral Castle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8BZ3VhX3YI&feature=fvwrel
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February 1, 2013 9:44pm
Reid

You might be interested in this as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd_sUOvR2vY
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February 1, 2013 9:50pm

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