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January 7, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 7 January 2013

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skyblue

Back to work today. How about the rest of you.
2013 will be a great year for business.
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January 7, 2013 8:21am
meh

Off until the 14th 🙂 downside of a long break is work will be manic for the rest of January and probably all of February…. good thing I enjoy my job.
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January 7, 2013 8:35am
bhudson

With the good weather only arriving here in Wellington a few days ago, I have taken an extra week at short notice. The joys of fence painting, house exterior prep and room renovation await. All those jobs that have been put off and put off…
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January 7, 2013 8:38am
jaba

1 week left .. it’s been a tough year with 2013 possibly tougher so this extra week should be good to recharge
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January 7, 2013 8:53am
hj

Population Growth is government policy.

Economic arguments against population growth

“………. Bigger is not better. China and India both have plenty of people, while countries with the highest per capita incomes and standards of living generally have fewer people. China has greatly reduced population growth with its one child policy and seen vast economic growth – shouldn’t China have failed to grow because its population stabilised? The map above shows a pretty clear inverse relationship between population growth rates and standards of living.

Nor is a comparison of population density meaningful in this debate, or we could argue that any region with a low population density is ‘underpopulated’ (like Antarctica or the Simpson desert) because we have compared the region to Hong Kong or the Netherlands.

One core economic argument in favour of a greater population is that utility theory suggests that a trillion people living in poverty and slavery are better that one million happy and fulfilled people, leading lives directed by their own desires. It is known as the repugnant conclusion. I doubt anyone believes this is a good outcome, nor is claimed to be a good reason for greater population – it just happens to be at the heart of economic theory and can spawn unusual conclusions.

A second argument appeals to economies of scale and suggests that with greater domestic consumption industries can expand to a point where they have economies of scale that make them internationally competitive. Why domestic population is currently a barrier to industry development is beyond me. If there are no artificial constraints on trade, shouldn’t the world be the marketplace of any industry even in its infancy? This argument only works if you couple high population with protectionism (the infant industry argument, which itself is often challenged).

A third argument, that may be the focus of this debate, is that the demographic shift towards a flat population pyramid means that the proportion of people in the workforce will be much lower, and that public welfare support for the elderly will become a burden on a smaller workforce. However, one does not need to think too hard to realise that stimulating population growth simply delays this inevitable demographic shift. We have known this shift was coming for decades yet have failed to act. But it is not too late to implement solutions more practical than stimulation population growth. ”

http://ckmurray.blogspot.co.nz/2010/04/economic-arguments-against-population.html
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/07/more-failed-arguments-for-population-growth/
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January 7, 2013 8:58am
hj

We are a country of immigrants is often advanced as a justification for continued (high) immigration, however:

“… while the GDP that the migrant gets to enjoy rises the marginal cost vs benefit of bringing them in may be greater for the existing population (which have to bear it).

It’s the reason why I don’t agree with the premise “this country was built on migrants”. Back then the cost vs benefit of a migrant was in favour of that. We had the infrastructure that was otherwise being underutilized so there wasn’t as much cost in adding an extra body. Now that we’ve hit natural and infrastructure barriers (transport, medical care, water, land in capital cities, and more) it’s safe to say with the preferences of most migrants (either Sydney or Melbourne) the benefit they bring on average isn’t probably worth the cost of overcoming these constraints.
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/07/more-failed-arguments-for-population-growth/

That’s why;
“THE case for higher immigration as a driver for economic growth is far from proven, as is the notion that more immigrants can counter the negative effects of population ageing, the Productivity Commission says. ”
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/immigration-link-to-economic-growth-yet-to-be-proven-says-productivity-commission/story-fn9hm1gu-1226179973978
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January 7, 2013 9:05am
hj

“One thing he is clear about is that the demographic changes set to occur in Christchurch could transform the city infamous for its white supremacist National Front movement. While Christchurch does have small ethnic enclaves, hosting lantern festivals for Chinese New Year and Diwali festivals for the Indian community, the scale of the anticipated migrant influx is unparalleled in its history.”
http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle_uuid=86EB3C7F-B375-B8DF-A111-53B3788C75E5

Bold young men drove sheep on to the vast grazing runs to found pastoral empires and land owning dynasties. Out of the wealth from the squatters’ wool clips, and from wheat when the tussock was ploughed, grew a city of scholarship, grace and dignity”

Professor Kenneth Cumberland Landmarks
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January 7, 2013 9:33am
marcw

I would love it if our MSM would stop orgasming over eco-terrorist Paul Watson and his bunch of loopy followers. It seems that you can’t turn on a radio or open a paper without some reporter breathlessly passing on the latest gossip about what he has or hasn’t done today. A good cause does not give anyone the right to do as they please outside the law, and if they want to spend their money on a crusade, good for them, but can we please be spared the details.
They have crossed that line where they have become the news rather than their cause. If they were to unfortunately kill themselves or others in the Southern Ocean, of course everyone will have to pay to mount recovery or rescue operations to help them.
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January 7, 2013 10:01am
kowtow

marcw

The MSM is long past being about news. It’s all advocacy or activism these days.
Global warming
Marriage equality
Celebrity
Animal rights
Indigenous rights
Social justice
Multiculturalism
Refugees

All causes actively pushed against the interests of those of us who pay the price for this .The citizen middle classes.
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January 7, 2013 10:46am
Paulus

After the next election Watson and his mates in Greenpeace New Zealand Branch, led by Aussie commie Wussel and the token part Maori female from the McGillicuddy Party, will extend all welcomes to the new base in Wellington, protected by the Parliamentary legislation.
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January 7, 2013 10:48am
Fletch

OK, this is CLASSIC.

Thieves break into Microsoft’s head office and only steal their Apple products 😛

Thieves broke into Microsoft’s Mountain View campus last Wednesday, and stole five iPads, but left all Microsoft-branded products behind according to a police report.

Mountain View is the location of Microsoft’s primary research and design facility, so you would expect it to be awash with Windows products, such as the recently released Microsoft Surface tablet and Windows 8-based laptops. However, the canny thief decided to steal only Apple-branded products.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/?newsid=3418779
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January 7, 2013 10:55am
Fletch

In other news, the man dying of cancer who got to see the newest Star Trek movie, thanks to J.J Abrams, has died.
He was a Star Trek fan who wanted to see it before he died.

4:36 PM PST 1/5/2013 by Jane Kellogg
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Paramount Pictures
Diagnosed with terminal cancer, Daniel Craft, director of the New York Asian Film Festival, was allowed to see an early cut of the upcoming Star Trek film nearly five months ahead of its release date.

At a time when he didn’t have much to look forward to, a Star Trek fan was given the opportunity to watch a rough cut of Star Trek: Into Darkness just days before he died.

When New York-based film buff Daniel Craft was told he had terminal cancer less than six weeks ago, Craft’s friends and family took it upon themselves to make his last days as happy and comfortable as possible. His friend Doug posted a plea from Craft’s wife, Paige, on the popular Internet message board Reddit, and the message was picked up by social media and the press until it eventually found its way to J.J. Abrams. The director granted him access to see an early edited version of the film, which isn’t set to be released until May.

“A day or so after the thread began, Paige, Dan’s wife, got a voicemail from JJ Abrams and Damon Lindelof that was very nice and very straightforward: a producer for the movie would get in touch with them,” friend Grady Hendrix wrote in a follow-up post on Reddit. “The next day, one of the film’s producers showed up at the door of their apartment with a DVD containing a very rough cut of Star Trek: Into Darkness in his hands. Paige had made popcorn, Dan had spent the previous day resting so he could sit through the movie, and after signing about 200 non-disclosure agreements they watched the film and had a blast.”
“J.J. Abrams and the producer who came to give them the early cut told Paige and Dan, ‘Please don’t judge this — it’s very rough, but we wanted you to see what we had,'” Hendrix told The Hollywood Reporter. “Of course, he loved the film. It was the last thing he got to do before he passed away.”
After watching the film, Craft went back to bed and didn’t get out again. His wife took him to the hospital for hospice care on Friday, and at 10:15 pm, with his wife and his brother by his side, Dan died. He was 41.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/star-trek-fan-dies-jj-408899

It’s nice to know that some of the Hollywood bigwigs have a heart.
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January 7, 2013 11:01am
Griff

Climate Change in 2013: 5 Things to Expect in the New Year

1) It will keep getting warmer:
And we will keep breaking temperature records. Many scientific papers have found an upward trend in temperature records, which averages somewhere around 0.16 degrees Celsius per year; indeed, this is the signature effect of climate change, so much so that this global warming prediction almost goes without saying.

2) Droughts will persist:
Notably in the U.S.’ southwest. The Southwest has seen devastating droughts in the past year, and they are expected to intensify in 2013, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). Climate change will continue to make such droughts more likely into the future

3) Artic Ice coverage will again be very low:
On September 16, 2012, a record minimum was set for Arctic sea ice – both in ice extent and volume. That means that a huge portion of the ice in the Arctic this winter is first-year ice, especially since large quantities of older ice melted in 2012. The younger ice is thinner and melts more rapidly in the summer than older ice. These conditions make the Arctic more susceptible to significant ice depletion in 2013; even if it does not set a new record

4) Summer will be a little longer: Fall will keep coming later, and spring earlier.
The leaves stay on the trees approximately 10 days longer now than they did in the early 1980s in the United States. Spring has likewise been arriving earlier and earlier over the last half-century, as measured by the arrival of new leaves. Both of these seasonal shifts have their roots in an increase in average temperature

5) Storms and sea level rise: will continue to put low-lying costal areas at risk.
Climate change brings the forbidding threesome of rising sea levels, more storm-surge-causing weather, and more intense rain. These three factors put low-lying areas at risk – as New York and New Jersey learned only too well this past hurricane season

from http://www.policymic.com/articles/22061/climate-change-in-2013-5-things-to-expect-in-the-new-year
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January 7, 2013 11:15am
Kea

Thanks for that Sermon Griff, but I am an atheist and base my ideas on evidence 😉
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January 7, 2013 11:28am
Kea

This from well known Sceptic, Sam Harris:

Here is a list I compiled about 25 years ago on symptoms that a group was a cult.

1. Are members expected to obey the leader without question at all times?

2. Do the group members show a lack of humor? Are they unable to joke about their membership in the group?

….5. Does the group promote an “end of the world” or “something great is about to happen” attitude?

6. Are group members and leadership unwilling to acknowledge the legitimacy of other groups?

7. Is there an “Us against Them” mentality?

http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread/6709/

The shoe seems to fit dear Griff ….
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January 7, 2013 11:33am
Griff

Australia Heat Sparks Fires, Shatters Records

Weather record books for Tasmania will have to be rewritten following the highest temperatures in more than 100 years.

Friday, Hobart registered 41.8 degrees C (107.2 F), shattering the old high mark of 40.8, set on Jan. 4, 1976, data from the Australian Bureau of Meteorology (BoM) showed. Record keeping began in Hobart in 1882.

The Hobart airport also set a record high, being 40.3 degrees C, or 104.5 degrees F. The normal high is only 21.6 degrees C, or 71 degrees F.

Orford and Bushy Park, also in southeastern Tasmania, also set high temperature records, the BoM website showed.

Meanwhile, the southern cities of Melbourne and Adelaide got a respite, following Friday’s searing winds, thanks to onshore flow.

Adelaide city topped at 45 degrees C, or 113 F, Friday. While the South Australia state capital high was not a record, the nearby airport’s maximum of 44.1 degrees C was, if by only 0.1 of a degree.

http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/australia-heat-sparks-fires-sh/3690820
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January 7, 2013 11:33am
Monique Watson

What do you think about this opinion piece?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10857639

Keeping Stock?
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January 7, 2013 11:36am
Monique Watson

That was Chris Rattue on Taylor
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January 7, 2013 11:37am
Kea

A similar but more peaceable fate is befalling believers in what can be called the religion of the global warming alarmists.

They have an unshakeable faith that manmade carbon emissions will produce a hotter climate, causing natural disasters. Their insistence that we can be absolutely certain this will come to pass is based not on science — which is never fully settled, witness the recent experiments that may undermine Einstein’s theory of relativity — but on something very much like religious faith.

All the trappings of religion are there. Original sin: Mankind is responsible for these prophesied disasters, especially those slobs who live in suburbs and drive their SUVs to strip malls and tacky chain restaurants.

The need for atonement and repentance: We must impose a carbon tax or cap-and-trade system, which will raise the cost of everything and stunt economic growth.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/collapse_of_the_global_warming_cult_i6wFd1mBJGFmSaY04CI2EL

The Global Warming Cult and the Death of Science

“………”If you believe that freedom is at the core of what it means to be human, then theWarmists and what they stand for are instinctively repulsive to you. On the other hand, if you believe that human society must be organized into a moral collective for the betterment of all, then theWarmist idea provides a wake up call compelling us to form into ranks and goose step in recycled rubber boots into the green future. ”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2849231/posts
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January 7, 2013 11:40am
Nookin

IMHO, Rattue writes to to satisfy his ever-expanding ego. He needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
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January 7, 2013 11:42am
Griff

1. Are members expected to obey the leader without question at all times

who the fuck is the leader ?
This is another flight of conspirawhacky from you kea

Incidentally I have not seen al gores movie and have absolutely no intention of watching it
its a dumped down piece of American garbage spiel to the ignorant masses in the USA
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January 7, 2013 11:46am
Kea

A few of the current record low temperatures

As Japan continues to deal with a persisting cold front, Christmas Day brought record low temperatures to as many as 44 locations http://www.sott.net/article/255200-Record-low-temperatures-hit-Japanese-cities

LUCKNOW, India (AP) — More than 100 people have died of exposure as northern India deals with historically cold temperatures. http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2013/01/04/cold-weather-india-deaths/1809315/

People in many parts of China welcomed the new year in record-low temperatures, and the cold weather is expected to move farther south, the National Meteorological Center said on Wednesday. http://english.sina.com/china/p/2013/0102/544142.html

With hundreds dead, lines of transport cut off and fuel supplies rationed, the whole of Europe is at war — with the weather. Since the end of January, the cold front has claimed over 500 lives in Europe; the Weather Underground rates it as Europe’s coldest outbreak since at least 1991.

With hundreds dead, lines of transport cut off and fuel supplies rationed, the whole of Europe is at war — with the weather. Since the end of January, the cold front has claimed over 500 lives in Europe; the Weather Underground rates it as Europe’s coldest outbreak since at least 1991. http://www.guilfordian.com/worldnation/2012/02/16/europe-braces-for-more-cold-weather-as-siberian-cold-front-marches-south/

The cold snap gripping Europe shows no sign of letting up as the UK braces for snow next week. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/dec/07/snow-cold-snap
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January 7, 2013 11:47am
Manolo

Ah, Griff, the perennnial warmist enamoured of all-things AGW.
An Al Gore fan, no doubt.
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January 7, 2013 11:48am
SPC

Kea, record lows AND record highs is a sign of climate change.
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January 7, 2013 11:49am
Fletch

Obama outright lies in weekly address –

Here’s what he said –

Hi, everybody. Over the past year, as I traveled across the country campaigning for this office, I told you that if I was fortunate enough to be re-elected, I’d work to change a tax code that too often benefited the wealthy at the expense of the middle class.

This week, we did that. For the first time in two decades, we raised taxes on the wealthiest 2% of Americans in a bipartisan way, while preventing a middle-class tax hike that could have thrown our economy back into recession.

Under this law, more than 98% of Americans and 97% of small business will not see their income taxes go up one dime…

And the actual truth –

** Under the new fiscal cliff plan workers making less than $30,000 a year will take a bigger hit than those making $500,000 a year.
** The fiscal cliff bill that passed the US Senate and the US House will raise payroll taxes from 4.2% to 6.2%. In other words those making $100,000 a year will see their taxes increase by $2,000.
** The bill raised taxes on 77% of American households.

LINK
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January 7, 2013 11:50am
Kea

So as people are freezing to death over Europe, India & China (most of the world) Griff wants us to worry about it being a bit hotter than usual in Tasmania ! Wow.

Keep em coming Griff 🙂
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January 7, 2013 11:53am
SPC

Kea,

Of course the same criticism can be made of government itself, let alone any policy of government

For example

Those who pose that the original sin of man was the formation of government and the collection of tribute (taxes) to fund it

Then pose that repentance of trust in big government is required – with a new belief that the market knows best (or God let the people choose) replacing it. Atonement being based on selling off what the government owns and reducing the means by which government can operate (lower taxes/less tribute) and via subsidiarity handing over government service delivery functions to either faith based groups or for profit companies.
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January 7, 2013 11:58am
SPC

Kea, noting that half the world is going through winter while half is going through summer does not disprove global warming, and certainly not the climate change forecast to occur as a result.
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January 7, 2013 12:01pm
SPC

And while the northern hemisphere has more of the land mass and population it is not most of the world, only most of the populated world.
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January 7, 2013 12:02pm
Griff

There is a vast difference from a historical all time record kea then a short term one
as usually the nutters post any old piece of garbage that seems to support there conspirawhacky with out even reading it

China
People in many parts of China welcomed the new year in record-low temperatures, and the cold weather is expected to move farther south, the National Meteorological Center said on Wednesday. http://english.sina.com/china/p/2013/0102/544142.html

The extreme cold has largely been attributed to the shrinking of ice in the Arctic caused by global warming, Zhou Botao, an expert at the National Climate Center, told People’s Daily.

The melting of the ice helps push the cold air south, he said.

India
Temperatures in New Delhi, which borders Uttar Pradesh, hit a high Wednesday of 49.6 degrees F, the lowest maximum temperature in the capital since 1969

Europe
the Weather Underground rates it as Europe’s coldest outbreak since at least 1991

England
Rainy year-end poised to seal 2012 as UK’s wettest ever

Thanks for the weather links KEA pity that
! they are not current
2 they don’t support your conspirawhacky

Axeman posts the weather as well are you two friends in the same nuttery
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January 7, 2013 12:03pm
SPC

Fletch, the tax debate was over the more longstanding Bush era tax rate cuts.

There was always bi-partisan agreement that the 2% cut in the payroll tax, a more recent event, would be temporary and occur until the unemployment rate started to come down.
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January 7, 2013 12:06pm
Kea

Kea, noting that half the world is going through winter while half is going through summer does not disprove global warming, and certainly not the climate change forecast to occur as a result.

SPC. Agreed, I am pleased you got my point.

Now, I am just wondering why you did not make that reply to Griff when he pointed out it is a bit hot in Tasmania, which is currently at the height of the dry season ?

You say that warm and cold are both signs of climate change. What would prove to you the AGW theory is wrong? (given that climate is always changing)

Why are you willing to accept isolated “weather” events as proof of AGW, but reject “weather” as evidence against AGW.

There seems to be a lot of double standards being applied here.
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January 7, 2013 12:09pm
kowtow

The climate is always changing. We’re currently in a warming phase (thank goodness), our civilisation is based on it. It’s been going on for 10 -25 000 years.

As Cpl Jones would say “Don’t panic”, more importantly don’t let governments ax us or reduce our standards of living on account of it!
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January 7, 2013 12:10pm
kowtow

tax not ax! Same thing.
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January 7, 2013 12:11pm
Kea

The extreme cold has largely been attributed to the shrinking of ice in the Arctic

The shrinking ice made it colder ………. lol 🙂 🙂
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January 7, 2013 12:11pm
Manolo

Bludgers of the world, unite!
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/06/welfare-recipients-take-out-cash-at-strip-clubs-liquor-stores/?intcmp=trending
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January 7, 2013 12:15pm
Kea

The climate is always changing. We’re currently in a warming phase (thank goodness),

Kowtow, the people in India, China, Europe ect have never felt such freezing warmth.

I guess those who froze to death are just being paid by “big oil” and are crazy “climate deniers” 🙂
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January 7, 2013 12:28pm
MT_Tinman

Griff (3,729) Says:
January 7th, 2013 at 11:15 am
Climate Change in 2013: 5 Things to Expect in the New Year

1) It will keep getting warmer:
And we will keep breaking temperature records.

4) Summer will be a little longer: Fall will keep coming later, and spring earlier.
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January 7, 2013 12:29pm
SPC

Kea,

There is little isolated about the prevalence of the extreme weather events.

What would disprove human generated global warming causing climate change would be

1. the world temperature average falling back from the 1995-2012 high of recent times to lower levels
2. the world temperature average holding at the level for a few more decades
3. weather patterns within their average, lack of record highs and lack of record lows.
4. rainfall falling within the norm rather than new record downpours.

PS, temperature change at the poles will effect climate patterns around the rest of the world – transfer cold weather to other areas in the winter. The Chinese guy was simply noting what happened in Europe a year or so back when they had a record cold period because of change at the Arctic.
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January 7, 2013 12:30pm
MT_Tinman

Griff (3,729) Says:
January 7th, 2013 at 11:15 am
Climate Change in 2013: 5 Things to Expect in the New Year

1) It will keep getting warmer:
And we will keep breaking temperature records.

4) Summer will be a little longer: Fall will keep coming later, and spring earlier.

Sorry ’bout the double post –

I fail to see the downside here.
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January 7, 2013 12:31pm
Griff

That is why its called climate change kea
All time record high temperatures count
minor local twenty year ones like you posted don’t

If you disagree with the opinion of a scientist I think you should debate it with him please keep us informed of the results
http://www.journalogy.net/Author/34477541/botao-zhou

As he is somewhat of an expert and you are just a nutter on a blog I know who I would trust for information on the climate
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January 7, 2013 12:31pm
SPC

MT_Tinman, you sound like one of those Russians and Canadians …. both notable for their lack of concern about global warming.
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January 7, 2013 12:37pm
Kea

What would disprove human generated global warming causing climate change would be

1. the world temperature average falling back from the 1995-2012 high of recent times to lower levels
2. the world temperature average holding at the level for a few more decades
3. weather patterns within their average, lack of record highs and lack of record lows.
4. rainfall falling within the norm rather than new record downpours.

SPC, you have assumed that some sort of abitrary temperature. at a particular point in time, is the “correct one”. There is not any “correct” temperature and there is no “norm”. Climate is, and always has been, in a state of flux. If it was not, we would not be here and the world would be buried under meters of ice, as it has been a number of times.

At the heart of your assumptions is the unscientific and arrogant belief that all the world is here for mans benefit. It is not.
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January 7, 2013 12:42pm
Manolo

Griff, how many times a day do you pray at the altar of Gaia? Are you a card-carrying member of the Green Party?
An Al Gore follower?
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January 7, 2013 12:44pm
Kea

If you disagree with the opinion of a scientist

I agree with many “scientists” about the AGW theory. I tend to agree less with those who rely 100% on the AGW lie for their income and professional recognition. If they fail to maintain the myth, they lose their income and professional reputation.

Have you ever considered what all these “climate scientists” will do for work when the truth comes out?
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January 7, 2013 12:48pm
Monique Watson

I trust nutters on blogs more than I do the scientific “experts”.
this is what is grinding my gears:
http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2013/01/crazy-mother-of-young-cancer-sufferer.html
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January 7, 2013 12:49pm
axeman

2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

Welcome to the cooling New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … Oh dear

2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/
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January 7, 2013 12:52pm
axeman88

2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

Welcome to the cool New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … Oh Dear

2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/
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January 7, 2013 12:54pm
Griff

More unsupported statements by our expert at making stuff up kea

Please expand on the climate flux experienced by human civilization kea with links to your sources

The global temperatures are now hotter than at any time since humans developed civilization

And don’t bother with links to denial websites for some reason they just don’t cut it .Edu or .gov please
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January 7, 2013 12:54pm
axeman88

2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

Welcome to the cool New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … 🙁
2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/
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January 7, 2013 12:55pm
Longknives

I wonder how some of Sally Robert’s supporters would feel if she was refusing the poor kid treatment on ‘Religious’ grounds? And not just some obsession with alternative ‘New Age’ therapy?
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January 7, 2013 12:55pm
axeman

And latest report from Earth Scientists (yeah yeah I know kea … gwiff [again] will call them nutters)

“…our rejection of AGW is not absolute; it might be a false positive, and we cannot rule out the possibility that recent global warming has an anthropogenic footprint. However, this possibility is very small, and is not statistically significant at conventional levels.”

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/03/agw-bombshell-a-new-paper-shows-statistical-tests-for-global-warming-fails-to-find-statistically-significantly-anthropogenic-forcing/

We know 2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

Welcome to the cooling New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year …

2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began. Oh dear

http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/
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January 7, 2013 1:01pm
axeman88

And latest report from Earth Scientists (yeah yeah I know kea … gwiff [again] will call them nutters)

“…our rejection of AGW is not absolute; it might be a false positive, and we cannot rule out the possibility that recent global warming has an anthropogenic footprint. However, this possibility is very small, and is not statistically significant at conventional levels.”

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/03/agw-bombshell-a-new-paper-shows-statistical-tests-for-global-warming-fails-to-find-statistically-significantly-anthropogenic-forcing/

We know 2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

Welcome to the cool New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … 🙁

2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/
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January 7, 2013 1:03pm
OTGO

I’m old enough to remember the scare mongering going on at my primary school about the earth freezing over and people having to migrate towards the tropics to survive. Also the restoration of the ice bridge between Alaska and Russia which would mean the nasty commies could just drive their snomobiles over and attack the good ol’ USA. What a lot of tosh.
And if the earth is warming there will be winners and losers. Unscientifically I think NZ will be a net winner.
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January 7, 2013 1:06pm
Kea

Please expand on the climate flux experienced by human civilization kea with links to your sources

The global temperatures are now hotter than at any time since humans developed civilization

Now I am begining to see what drives you Griff. It is the absurd idea that humans are the cumulation of something and are somehow unique. We are not.

“Human civilization” is not a bench mark for climate. There have been huge and dramatic changes in climate, many of which almost wiped out humans. Most of which occured before modern humans even existed. Are you denying the last Ice Age, for example?
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January 7, 2013 1:06pm
axeman

And latest report from Earth Scientists (yeah yeah I know kea … gwiff [again] will call them nutters)

“…our rejection of AGW is not absolute; it might be a false positive, and we cannot rule out the possibility that recent global warming has an anthropogenic footprint. However, this possibility is very small, and is not statistically significant at conventional levels.”

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/03/agw-bombshell-a-new-paper-shows-statistical-tests-for-global-warming-fails-to-find-statistically-significantly-anthropogenic-forcing/
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January 7, 2013 1:06pm
axeman

Welcome to the cooling New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … Oh dear

2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/
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January 7, 2013 1:07pm
axeman

We know 2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

Welcome to the cooling New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year …

2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/
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January 7, 2013 1:08pm
SPC

Kea,

You asked a question about what would disprove global warming generating climate change, then when this is answered in an entirely predictable way based on lack of much climate change – respond by saying that there is no norm to compare anything to.

Your view is simply that because the world climate changes, with or without human impact, you don’t care if there is climate change caused by us. Clearly your attempt to deny human induced climate change is happening is because at heart your attitude is so what.

That there is a state of flux, is no reason to exacerbate this by participating in causing a global warming that creates extremes of weather.

“At the heart of your assumptions is the unscientific and arrogant belief that all the world is here for mans benefit. It is not”

Pot, kettle, black.
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January 7, 2013 1:14pm
axeman

Plus the latest UAH measurements show a further steady decline for December to +0.20 degree C

http://www.drroyspencer.com/2013/01/uah-v5-5-global-temperature-update-for-december-2012-0-20-deg-c/
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January 7, 2013 1:17pm
SPC

OTGO, whether even those regions that have local advatanges from global warming, are better off is questionable. We are inter-dependent in the global market. Some will be relatively better off.
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January 7, 2013 1:20pm
Kea

SPC, climate is changing. Man will have some influence on climate, but not enough to matter. The outcome will be the same, regardless of what man does or does not do.

Those who blame man have other agendas that have nothing to do with climate and everything to do with environmental extremism, politics and a wider concern about various social issues.
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January 7, 2013 1:22pm
axeman

2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/

We know 2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

Welcome to the cool New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … Oh dear
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January 7, 2013 1:24pm
axeman

Welcome to the cool New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … 🙁

2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to be the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

Instead it all went to hell in solar powered hand cart, as Green defeat followed Green defeat.

On January 1st 2012 the EU announced the start of its Green flying tax on all flights in and out of the EU, as global opposition to the Green tax mounted, Comrade Connie Hedegaard, the EU’s unelected Climate Commissar remained bullish and insisted that the world would bow down to her Green will.

Many nations including the US, China and India prohibited their airlines from taking part in the EU flying tax amid threats of a trade war, particularly from China. Finally in November Hedegaard and the EU backed down and suspended their Green flying tax for forever 12 months.

The Rio+20 Earth summit held the promise of the chance to relive the glory days of warming alarmism:

From the outset Rio+20 moved away from the Climate Change and Global Warming memes, instead the new meme was sustainable development, despite the new Plug n Play meme, Rio+20 was a complete failure.

Rio+20 was also the start of the side lining of the Green NGOs like Greenpeace, WWF and FoE from the whole farcical UNFCCC process, the days when Greenpeace was a force to reckoned with have passed.

The sheer irrelevance of the Green NGOs now, to the whole UN process was further demonstrated at COP18 where they were basically told to sit down and shut up.

Climate Change continued to slide off the political radar during the US Presidential Election, and despite much event attribution by the warmists, in direct contravention to what their own climate scientists say, Climate Change has continued its slide into political oblivion.

COP18 was an even bigger failure that COP17, held in an atmosphere of fear and loathing, the outcome could only ever have been failure or implosion.

The failure of COP18 passed a death sentence on Kyoto, with a limited number of nations signing up for Kyoto 2, and some of those already running away 2012 was a very bad year for Big Green.

The good or bad news depending upon your perspective is 2013 will be even worse for the warming alarmists.

According to warming alarmist website Responding To Climate Change (RTCC) there are 10 climate questions that need answering in 2013:

Will we see raised ambition next year?

It was a running theme in 2012 that culminated in the unspectacular climax of the UN climate change talks in Doha.

The simple answer is No, politicians are driven by the political will of their electorate, the UN Climate Commissar Christiana Figueres has said there is no populist support for an ambitious climate deal. When there is real support, not bullshit polls that show 80% of the population want a wind turbine in their back yard, then there will be raised ambition, until then, nothing will happen.

Time for Russia to come in from the cold?

Russia’s dismay at the outcome of the UN climate change talks in Doha was the clearest position they took throughout the whole fortnight of negotiations and the year-long build up.

Russia is so dismayed that it announced on January 1st that, it will not renew its commitment to the Kyoto Protocol

Will Obama shake up US climate policy?

There were few signs in Doha of a shift from the traditional US position at the UN talks but with long time climate action advocate John Kerry nominated as the next Secretary of State, change could be coming.

Another resounding No, there will be some platitudes from Kerry, some vague promises but overall no change from the US position at Doha. The wishful thinking that a second term Obama is free to follow any policy he wants is nothing more than that, wishful thinking, Obama’s successor will have to campaign on Obama’s record as President on the things that matter to Americans like jobs and prosperity. Climate Change policies are by definition anti-progress, anti-wealth neither of which are vote winners except to a minority who have Anthropogenic Global Warming as a core pillar of their belief system.

Are we set for more extreme weather in 2013?

The UK’s Met Office has already predicted that 2013 will almost certainly be one of the ten warmest years on record and possibly the warmest ever.

The new year had yet to begin and already the UK Met Office were predicting that 2013 will be one of the 10 warmest years since records began (1979 by the way) and possibly the warmest ever.

The UK Met Office has an unenviable record of failed predictions, surpassed only by the warming alarmist movement as a whole. Britons remember the barbecue summer that turned into a deluge, the scary fear stories of Britain’s drought and water shortages in 2012, and the floods and never ending rain that have followed ever since.

Will Poland ditch its ‘villain’ tag before the next UN climate change talks?

The confirmation of Poland as the next host of the UN ‘COP’ talks was about as unpopular as Doha’s one year earlier.

The choice of Poland to host COP19 was curious, there are many who are disenchanted with the UNFCCC process and want it replaced with a new UN Climate Circus, so possibly Poland was chosen to ensure that the COP process is killed off, or, some Green hopeful thinking that if Poland hosts a UN COP meeting, the country would be converted to the Green Dream.

The start of the worst year for warmists began on January 1st when Russia announced that it will never sign up to a new Kyoto, which means the other major emitters like China, US and India will never sign up either, without the so called major emitters the whole premise of a climate agreement is worthless, and 2013 is the year the truth will finally sink in for Big Green.
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January 7, 2013 1:30pm
SPC

Kea, at the heart of the matter is a question

If there is human induced climate change that has an adverse economic and political impact (and you only have to see the security assessments done in the USA on what would happen with global warming induced climate change to appreciate that), then is there a cost benefit to action to mitigate this? And, if so, what action?

This is where the politics then come in – with the second question, of what action?

Of course those whose natural instinct is to oppose government action, and advocate that we should let the market or “nature” take its course, won’t want it to go that far. And of them are those with the financial interest in this course who have sponsored their own scientists.
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January 7, 2013 1:33pm
Kea

“Many nations including the US, China and India prohibited their airlines from taking part in the EU flying tax”

So the three biggest countries in the world are not interested. That makes Griff a big fat liar, he told us they were right into all that end of the world stuff.
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January 7, 2013 1:37pm
Kea

SPC, lets agree to disagree. What is the solution then…. ? (to AGW)

So far we have been told that unless we become a planet of communist vegan peasant farmers with a central all powerful world government, the world will end. (It appears the problem is caused by white people and capitalism, aggravated by democracy. )

Do you have any other suggestions ?
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January 7, 2013 1:41pm
Griff

AXE
i am not green
Political failure to address the problem is totally outside of the science
As to WUWT and other nutter websites 😆 full of shite. You would have to be a real fucknuckle to get your science from such blogs
would you like me to liost the papers in sopport of agw it would onlybe over forteen thousand and climbing daily.
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January 7, 2013 1:42pm
SPC

International financial regulators have eased rules on minimum quantities of cash and liquid assets all banks must hold, set to take effect in 2015.

The new rules are part of efforts to prevent financial shocks such as those prompted by the 2007 run on Northern Rock in the UK, or by the 2008 collapse of Lehman Brothers in the US. Banks will have to hold enough cash and easily sellable assets, to tide them over during an acute 30-day crisis.

Perhaps the most striking characteristics of today’s agreement – which amends a draft first published in 2010 – is that banks will be allowed to include corporate bonds, some shares and high-quality residential mortgage backed securities in their permitted stocks of liquid assets.

This goes against the grain of central banking and regulatory orthodoxy. In particular, the inclusion of mortgage-backed securities will be seen by some as odd, since these proved to be wholly illiquid and unsellable in the summer of 2007.

Analysts had warned that over-stringent standards could reduce lending and stifle economic growth.

It also gives them more time to comply with the new standards. The head of oversight body’s head, Mervyn King, said the timeframe ensures the rules “will in no way hinder the ability of the global banking system to finance the recovery”.

BBC business editor Robert Peston says the oddity is that most banks currently hold considerably more than the new minimum requirement – because leading central banks have injected massive amounts of liquidity into the financial system through “quantitative easing”.

But this simply reflects the depressed times we live in, our correspondents says.

The new rules would force banks to hold vastly more liquid assets than they did in 2007 when big banks barely had enough cash to meet demands for repayment from relatively small numbers of depositors and creditors, our correspondent adds.

They are part of the broader “Basel III” package of reforms, which will require lenders to set aside more capital to absorb losses.
The Basel Committee brings together representatives regulators from 27 nations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20928354

Two main points

BBC business editor Robert Peston says the oddity is that most banks currently hold considerably more than the new minimum requirement – because leading central banks have injected massive amounts of liquidity into the financial system through “quantitative easing”.

Perhaps the most striking characteristics of today’s agreement – which amends a draft first published in 2010 – is that banks will be allowed to include corporate bonds, some shares and high-quality residential mortgage backed securities in their permitted stocks of liquid assets.

This goes against the grain of central banking and regulatory orthodoxy. In particular, the inclusion of mortgage-backed securities will be seen by some as odd, since these proved to be wholly illiquid and unsellable in the summer of 2007.
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January 7, 2013 1:42pm
Griff

shit that jumped into cyber space before I could edit crome does not like kiwiblog
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January 7, 2013 1:43pm
SPC

Kea, the fact that it is a global issue and requires inter-government co-operation, does mean agreement on the science is important. Thus the conflict between acting soon enough to make a difference and waiting for the evidence to be decisive.

Despite this there was movement via Kyoto – possibly because policy to reduce carbon use would allow slower use of oil as we were facing peak oil. Now shale oil and shale gas reduces the risk of peak oil (and also allows an alternative to the more AGW impacting coal). With peak oil deferred because of a new resource that allows lower coal use, some see the issue as less acute and are more prepared to return focus to the science.

If the science does indicate global warming, then any response needs to be global, not just the Kyoto nations.

We have global trade and WTO trade rules etc, a WHO, an international criminal court, a World Bank, an IMF, so the idea that any other global level action on finite resource use means a global government that is a threat to democracy and capitalism and the white (majortiy nation?) peoples is something out of the conspiracy theory realm.

As to options, one way to manage depletion of a finite global resource is to place a carbon tax tax on all tradeable goods (impacts on all nations equally and reduces any trade advantage from intensive carbon use in production). The money raised used for renewables in third world nations and research on new technology. This would slow use of carbon and assist in slowing any global wamring.
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January 7, 2013 2:10pm
kowtow

grief’s scientific but subtle debating vocabulary;

nutter
fuckknuckle
shite
conspirawhacky

Excellent ways to prove one’s point.
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January 7, 2013 2:10pm
Manolo

The cartoons should be printed all over the world to annoy the savages.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256690/Magazine-firebombed-printing-satirical-Sharia-edition-France-publishes-Prophet-Mohammed-cartoon-book.html
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January 7, 2013 2:11pm
Kea

would you like me to liost the papers in sopport of agw it would onlybe over forteen thousand and climbing daily.

Griff, you pay me that sort of money and I will write a paper supporting AGW too !

SPC, so your solution to AGW is “to place a carbon tax tax on all tradeable goods” with the purpose of taking money from those people who earned it, and giving it to those who did not. So it is clear what informs your support of AGW, it is socialism, same as the rest of em.

If you want to embrace the proven failure that is socialism, then so be it. But at least have the guts and honesty to be up front about it. If your into Gaia and the environment, then great, but just say so. Stop using this AGW bullshit to promote other causes.
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January 7, 2013 2:20pm
SPC

Kea, if your argument against doing anything about AGW, is that anything we did would be a form of socialism, so we should do nothing, then just say so.

You see using some of the carbon tax money to build renewable production in the third world as socialism – no more than IMF bail outs of OECD nations, World Bank loans to the third world and existing foreign aid. And with an actual result – reducing their dependence on a finite global resource.

I see you are simply a religious disciple of the cult where any responsibitiy for human actions that impact on the environment/global climate is to dismissed as a form of (alien) socialist heresy to the capitalism of the white race.
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January 7, 2013 2:35pm
Kea

Some of you may wonder what “Carbon” is. You probably assume it is some contaminant put into the environment by man. Actually it is the basis of all known life on earth.

Carbon is the 15th most abundant element in the Earth’s crust, and the fourth most abundant element in the universe by mass after hydrogen, helium, and oxygen. It is present in all known life forms, and in the human body carbon is the second most abundant element by mass….Carbon compounds form the basis of all known life on Earth…Carbon occurs in all known organic life and is the basis of organic chemistry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon

You got it folks. Griff, SPC and the AGW cult want us heavily taxed for using organic products.
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January 7, 2013 2:37pm
SPC

Can you define heavily taxed carbon Kea? The petrol tax we pay for our roads, is that heavily taxed for carbon use?
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January 7, 2013 2:41pm
Manolo

Griff, besides AGW, have you also embraced socialism?
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January 7, 2013 2:41pm
Kea

Kea, if your argument against doing anything about AGW, is that anything we did would be a form of socialism

SPC, No it is simply a reflection of the fact that the measures you suggested are all socialist. I have yet to hear of any measures that do not involve undermining capatilist Western democratic society.

Do you know any way to address AGW without dismantaling capitalism, destroying the US, and doing away with democracy ?
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January 7, 2013 2:42pm
kowtow

manolo

The irony is that the Daily Fail who published that story pixillated He Who Must Not be Portrayed (PBUH).Presumably ,
as they are in sharia compliant Britain,not to be accused by the Crown of a hate crime or
as they are in a Muslim fearing UK,not to be burned down.Or perhaps to avoid both scenarios.

Either way,freedom of speech is dead and dhimmitude is growing apace.

Meanwhile ,and I hate to say this good on the Froggies at Charlie Hebdo. I hope they have generous insurers.
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January 7, 2013 2:45pm
SPC

Kea, can you explain how a carbon tax on the carbon used in manufacture of tradeable goods dismantles capitalism, destory the USA and does way with democracy?

And you have the gall to question the science behind AGW.

It has to be religion, you have only belief. The bible tells some so, now who told you what to believe so that you became a religious disciple of the cult where any responsibitiy for human actions that impact on the environment/global climate is to dismissed as a form of (alien) socialist heresy to the capitalism of the white race. And does he vote Republican?
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January 7, 2013 2:46pm
Kea

You see using some of the carbon tax money to build renewable production in the third world as socialism – no more than IMF bail outs of OECD nations, World Bank loans to the third world and existing foreign aid. And with an actual result – reducing their dependence on a finite global resource.

SPC, yes I guess that is what made Central Africa the success it is today !

If you want to really see how to turn around the “third world” look to China. They are building a new coal fired power plant every two weeks and have lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty. (The other thing they did was drop socialism)
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January 7, 2013 2:47pm
hinamanu

ANGRY Illinois State Rep Explodes on house floor!

Illinois Representative Mike Bost (Republican) launching into a tirade on the floor of the House of Representatives. It’s aimed at the House Speaker Michael Madigan (Democrat), whom he accuses of wielding too much power. Like a Pharaoh, apparently. Hence the not-at-all dramatic “Let my people go!” reference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irDBXxB5DQM
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January 7, 2013 2:51pm
Weihana

Kea,

Some of you may wonder what “Carbon” is. You probably assume it is some contaminant put into the environment by man. Actually it is the basis of all known life on earth.

So is water. Does this mean I can live happily at the bottom of the sea? 🙂
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January 7, 2013 2:51pm
SPC

Kea, sure China is ensuring that more coal is now used in producing the world products than before.

I see you do not regard one party government as socialist. Nor that China’s level of government ownership or control over the economy is socialist. Yet a carbon tax on tradeable tax is socialist?
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January 7, 2013 3:02pm
SPC

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has told West Bank officials to prepare to put the words “State of Palestine” on public documents, official media say.

Until now passports, ID cards, driving licences and other documents have been stamped “Palestinian Authority”.
In November, Mr Abbas led a successful campaign for the UN to upgrade the Palestinians’ status to that of an observer state.
The status was previously that of a “non-member observer entity”.

In a decree carried on Sunday by the official Wafa news agency, Mr Abbas said the move on labelling public documents would help bolster the Palestinian state “on the ground and build its institutions… and its sovereignty over the its land”.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20929367
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January 7, 2013 3:03pm
Manolo

The NZ Police will put this woman in jail: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/06/georgia-mom-home-alone-with-kids-shoots-ex-con-intruder/?intcmp=trending
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January 7, 2013 3:07pm
SPC

We decided to establish what support there is these law changes among the New Zealand public and asked three questions in a recent omnibus survey:

A bill was recently introduced in Parliament, which, if it becomes law, would allow same sex couples to marry. Are you in favour or not in favour of same sex couples being allowed to marry?

At present, same sex couples are not permitted to adopt children. If same sex couples were to marry, they would be able to adopt children under the present law. In your view, should same sex couples who are married, be able to adopt children?

And in your view, should same sex civil union couples be able to adopt children?

The New Zealand public have a fairly liberal attitude to the question of same sex marriage, 49 percent are in favour, 32 percent opposed and 15 percent saying they don’t care one way or the other. In effect, 64 percent support, or at least do not oppose, same sex marriages.

If same sex couples are married they are automatically able to adopt children. Some 64 percent are in favour of this being the case, while 31 percent are not in favour. However, same sex couples in a civil union are not able to adopt children under current law. Nevertheless, 62 percent of respondents are in favour of same sex couples in civil union being able to adopt children.

http://www.researchnz.com/media_releases.html

Some detail to the poll results is available.
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January 7, 2013 3:23pm
Kea

The NZ Police will put this woman in jail

Or shoot her as an armed offender.
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January 7, 2013 3:24pm
nasska

Kea

She might get lucky & only receive a light tasering.
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January 7, 2013 3:44pm
Griff

Keas

You have now exposed your real bases for apposing global warming because you view the proposed mitigation attempts as socialist

politics is politics

science is science

you do not have the mental capacity to separate the two

thicko
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January 7, 2013 3:49pm
Monique Watson

Big ups to the Georgia woman:

http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2013/01/its-not-guns-that-kill-smurfs-its.html
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January 7, 2013 4:18pm
mikenmild

Griff
+1
A lot of people have difficulty in separating climate science from the politics of climate change. While it is rational to accept the scientific consensus about anthropgenic global warming, it is not irrational to conclude that the current international efforts to limit carbon emissions will fail. It is irrational though to work backwards from dislike of a proposed solution to denial of a problem.
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January 7, 2013 4:27pm
Griff

That MM is a polite way to say nutter 😆
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January 7, 2013 4:31pm
axeman

kowtow (3,498) Says:
January 7th, 2013 at 2:10 pm
grief’s scientific but subtle debating vocabulary;

nutter
fuckknuckle
shite
conspirawhacky

Excellent ways to prove one’s point.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
LOL. gwiff you should be over at the echo chamber alarmist sites like the truffle grower and the retired English school teacher’s bogshite. You would enjoy it where they all spit and snarl and froth at the mouth when Earth Scientists disprove the alarmists bullshit theories.

You may not be a GWEEN but your fellow travellers/cultists certainly are, and you and them are not going to be happy this year 🙁
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January 7, 2013 4:36pm
Griff

Actually axenuckle I enjoy making fun of you nutters 😆

It would make me happy if someone did disprove global warming unfortunately that is not going to happen.
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January 7, 2013 4:42pm
axeman

Au contraire ‘grief’. Wat, Kea, kowtow et al and myself like taking the piss out of you and your CAGW cult 🙂

Sceptics like Watts and his contributing SCIENTISTS would probably love to hear that some know nothing dickwad stoner from the north of Aotearoa is calling them ‘nutters’ 🙂
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January 7, 2013 4:49pm
liarbors a joke

Hope you rot in hell you piece of shit..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8149863/Arrest-over-womans-attack-rape
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January 7, 2013 4:51pm
Griff

contributing SCIENTISTS 😆 Has he got some? climate scientist that is not high school drop outs
watts is still trying to get the paper published you know the one that proves his theory 😆
pity he forgot to add the required adjustments
made him look like a fucken idiot 😆
all that effort and the result
he proved that the temperature record for the USA is reliable
His so important heat island effect proves AGW 😆

Oh and by the way my cult has lots of scientific organizations behind it name the organizations behind yours
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January 7, 2013 4:57pm
Kea

You have now exposed your real bases for apposing global warming because you view the proposed mitigation attempts as socialist

No Griffy, I am just wondering why all the mitigation attempts are socialist? Why do we not see any free market capatilist attempts at mitigation? They might actually work.
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January 7, 2013 4:59pm

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