General Debate 3 January 2013

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Monique Watson

Mornin’ blog dogs.
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January 3, 2013 8:03am
Monique Watson

For those who are skeptical of the terms ‘global citizen’ and ‘world class’ in relation to New Zealand. Pah
The Herald and their stink lite stories.

http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2013/01/cultural-cringe-and-world-class-kiwi.html
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January 3, 2013 8:05am
Pete George

Electorate MP responsibilities

How should an MP prioritise their responsibilities? Should they work for the electorate, party, the country or themselves?

They are elected by the people of their electorate but some (possibly many) of their votes will have been more for the party than the persdon.

Some of an MP’s main responsibilities are…

Electorate
Country
Party leader
Party policies
Party ideologies
Self and family

And how should they prioritise what is most important?

For example…

20% Electorate
40% Country
5% Party leader
20% Party policies
5% Party ideologies
10% Self and family

What do you think?
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January 3, 2013 8:11am
cha

How they voted.

http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/112/house/2/659?ref=politics
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January 3, 2013 8:12am
mikenmild

Thanks for that cha. Is that a map of the sensible parts of Republican America?
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January 3, 2013 8:20am
cha

Looks like the party of Lincoln is going to abandon the hollow point, truth tipped bullets faction M.
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January 3, 2013 8:32am
mikenmild

I wonder sometime if there is potential for a formal split in the Republican Party along the Tea Party/rational thinker line, but I tend to suspect that the RWNJ element will become increasingly marginalised as the GOP looks for a way to remain credible.
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January 3, 2013 8:40am
cha

Yup, the cracks are showing.
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January 3, 2013 8:56am
Manolo

Forget the lies and hype. The reality is quite different: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/02/despite-deal-taxes-on-most-americans-will-go-up/
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January 3, 2013 9:19am
bringbackdemocracy

How did electorate MP’s vote following the anti-smacking referendum?
Some electorates had over 90% opposed to that stupid law.
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January 3, 2013 9:25am
Monique Watson

Absolutely Manolo. We are paying more tax and are now looking at going to Mexico or Canada so we don’t get socked by inflation.
There were 15 riders on Obamacare that have already increased taxes on the so called middle class this year.
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January 3, 2013 9:27am
Monique Watson

@BBD electorates can be easily manipulated by the media.
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January 3, 2013 9:27am
Fletch

So Obama has flown back to Hawaii without signing the cliff bill. Folks are saying he is saving that for when he comes back in the new year to make a big song and dance about it. Oh, and his interrupting his Hawaii vacation and flying back there has added another $3 million to the cost of his vacation, bringing it to $7 million.

After spending months telling Americans that the fiscal cliff deal was the most important thing facing their nation, Barack Obama has gone back to his vacation. Within a few hours of the bill’s passage last night, he was enjoying the comforts of Air Force One, en route to Hawaii. Heaven forbid he’s forced to sacrifice any more of his multi-million dollar getaway.

The weird thing is; he left town without signing the deal and the White House is refusing to say when he’ll do so. Likely, this is because he wants to make a big show of it when the world has returned from its collective Christmas/New Year’s break. Then, he can get out in front of the cameras, Joe Biden at his side, and use the opportunity to take another petty swipe at the evil Republicans who made this all so difficult.

Obama’s return to Hawaii will tack over $3 Million on to the cost of his tropical retreat, placing the total vacation price tag at over $7 Million.

Most of the additional cost will be eaten up by the expenses associated with flying Air Force One, which runs at about $180,000 per hour. It’s roughly an 18 hour round trip flight from D.C. to the Hawaiian islands.

Who says we have a spending problem? You’re just not paying your fair share.

link
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January 3, 2013 9:44am
mikenmild

You are quite fixated on the President’s ‘vacation’ costs. Would you like to estimate them as a percentage of federal spending?
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January 3, 2013 10:00am
kowtow

milktitties

You are quite fixated by the only sensible folk in the US Congress,the ones who want fiscal responsibility.

Would you like to tell us by how much has Obama reduced the deficit like he promised to in 2009?
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January 3, 2013 10:13am
liarbors a joke

Disgusting feral native on the loose in Nelson..I bets it got a record as long as its filthy tattooed arm..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8136288/Nelson-in-shock-over-disgusting-attack
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January 3, 2013 10:18am
mikenmild

kowtow
I have no idea. Hasn’t the US budget deficit increased in that time?
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January 3, 2013 10:23am
Paulus

Obama is delusional he believes he has “won” as he said at the recent announcement to invited sycophants.
His words will not please Republicans politicians as he virtually derides and mocks them
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January 3, 2013 10:24am
Pete George

A religious ‘leader’ proposes gang rape and child rape:

Saudi Religious Leader Calls for Gang Rape of Syrian Women

A prominent Saudi cleric has issued a fatwa that calls for the gang rape of Syrian women. Expressing frustration that the “warriors of Islam” fighting in Syria may be getting weary for the lack of sexual pleasure, the religious leader issued a decree that promotes hours-long “intercourse marriages.”

The cleric, Muhammed al-Arifi, who is a leading jihadist religious figure, made it clear that his edict called for the gang rape of Syrian women and girls. He specified that the “intercourse marriages” last only a few hours “in order to give each fighter a turn.” As to who is an eligible bride, the cleric approves any girls or women over the age of 14 who are widowed or divorced.

Seems like another case of using religion as an excuse for males grossly abusing females. Religion and male domination (and extreme hypocrisy) are not uncommon.

The article also refers to the widespread abuse of women and girls in India, including…

Another teen victim of gang rape, who was pressured by the Indian police to marry one of her attackers, recently committed suicide.

Religion mixed with male abuse of power has long been a problem around the world.

Although males abusing females and children is still far too prevalant in New Zealand at least here it is mostly not directly linked to religious abuse, and it is no longer effectively condoned at an official, policing and judicial levels.
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January 3, 2013 10:27am
Falafulu Fisi

Pete George, if you can do Janet’s moves in a bar in Auckland, I can guarantee you that you will score chicks, even cougars. Hey, next time you’re in Auckland, just drop me an email and I’ll take you dancing. See if you can dance like that, you can just hop into the dance floor and dance on your own. Soon, you’ll see women gravitating & dancing towards you, sometimes there can be 4 or 5 that surrounds you while you do those moves.
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January 3, 2013 10:37am
kowtow

milktitties has no idea how much Obama has dented the deficit but accuses fletch of fixation and asks fletch to give Obama’s holiday expenses as a percentage of govt spending.

twit.

P George

Don’t equate “religion” with those problems. Be honest ,for once, and use the “I” word,Islam.
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January 3, 2013 10:40am
Fletch

I posted this link on the GD yesterday, but it’s worth posting again.
It’s the documentary Agenda: Grinding America Down which documents the agenda of the Left (which they are quite open about). One of the interviewees is Kiwi Trevor Loudon, who says near the end,

“Every time a civilisation goes down or a country goes down, militarily or economically, somebody else fills the gap. If you look around the world now, it’s going to be China, which is massively arming; you’ve got Russia, which is becoming increasingly belligerent; you’ve got the radical Islamic movement, which works hand-in-glove with the Russians and the Chinese all the time; you’ve got a virtually Red Latin America; you’ve got a neutral Socialist Europe. So America hasn’t got a lot of friends left in the world.

Now, that’s not just going to affect America; it’s going to affect every single country in the Free World. Who’s going to stand up to China if America doesn’t? Who’s going to stand up to the Russians? Is Europe going to do it? Australia? New Zealand? Canada? Not a chance. If America goes down economically, it will go down militarily; if America goes down militarily, we ALL go down: the Free World is finished, and it will be finished for a very, very long time”.

http://vimeo.com/52009124
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January 3, 2013 10:42am
grumpyoldhori

Taylor must be going LOL after NZ were bowled out for 45, McCullum an opening bat what a joke with an average of thirty.
Still Hesson wanted his mate as captain, now he can pay the price.
Ryder will join the team with Hesson in charge, nope he will not after Taylor was dumped.
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January 3, 2013 10:52am
Azeraph

Pete George (15,712) Says:
January 3rd, 2013 at 10:27 am

Obviously this leader is an idiot and has no sense of his religion anymore. Just as those idiot evangelical so called Christians who go against Christianity and get involved in politics and support Israel, poor buggers have no sense of their religion as well or have never read he book properly.
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January 3, 2013 10:57am
Pete George

kowtow – Islam is not the factor in Delhi, but it is a partiarchal religious based society. Enforced subserviency and abuse has been a part of many religions. Religion has been used as a tool and excuse for men to dominate (and abuse) women for millenia.
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January 3, 2013 11:02am
krazykiwi

The US economic recovery is a fraud:

For those who would see recovery in current economic data, there are these facts to ponder.

The first is that most of the decline in the unemployment rate has been a result not of more people working, but of more people leaving the labor force.

In November, unemployment went down to 7.7 from 7.9 percent in October, the lowest unemployment rate since late 2008. But at the same time unemployment declined, so did labor force participation–which fell to 63.6 in November from 63.8 percent in October. Half a million Americans have left the labor market in recent months. The decline in the unemployment rate has been a result not of more people working, but of more people leaving the labor force.

Long term economic growth–and even growth in the short run–depends on an expanding labor force. Since January 2009, the labor force participation rate has declined by almost two percentage points. That’s three and a half million Americans who have given up looking for work. If the labor force participation rate were now at its January 2009 level, unemployment would be 10.7 percent. That’s higher than unemployment was in 2009, when the recession was at its most severe.

Moreover, more than 70 percent of new civilian jobs created in the United States in recent months are in government. Since June, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the economy has added about 847,000 jobs. About 621,000 of these are in local, state and federal government.

Economic growth in the long run cannot be sustained by a declining labor force participation rate and more government jobs. The current recovery is a fraud, a deceit. There remain about four million fewer private sector jobs in the economy than there were in 2008.
:::
Concerning food stamps, the most recent monthly data show that 47.7 million Americans use them, close to one in six Americans. About 30 percent of children under eighteen in the United States are on food stamps.
:::
This is not economic recovery. This is long term economic stagnation.
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January 3, 2013 11:03am
Andrei

Religion mixed with male abuse of power has long been a problem around the world.

So has the pomposity of mental midgits regurgitating the talking points they have been fed but haven’t the mental capacity to understand.
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January 3, 2013 11:07am
Kea

Now, that’s not just going to affect America; it’s going to affect every single country in the Free World. Who’s going to stand up to China if America doesn’t? Who’s going to stand up to the Russians? Is Europe going to do it? Australia? New Zealand? Canada? Not a chance.

“Stand up to” them about what exactely ?

Russia & China have given up on socialism and the US is a major trading partner of China. I think many Europeans would consider themselves part of the free world and would consider US military agression as running against freedom.

The way forward for the US is to bring change through trade, that benefits all parties. Money speaks louder than Drone attacks.
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January 3, 2013 11:09am
Fletch

Russia & China have given up on socialism

LOL.
I thought we saved jokes for the end of the day?
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January 3, 2013 11:11am
Pete George

So has the pomposity of mental midgits regurgitating the talking points they have been fed but haven’t the mental capacity to understand.

You don’t make it clear if you are speaking for yourself Andrei.
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January 3, 2013 11:20am
kowtow

PG

In the case you quote the problem is Islam.

Delhi is another matter again. As indeed is probably every rape case. But your example is specifically Islam,not every religion and not every man.

Now run along and do the dishes and hang out the laundry like a good fellow.
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January 3, 2013 11:26am
Andrei

There are lots of Muslims in India of course – from time to time they blow things and other Indians up
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January 3, 2013 11:30am
Pete George

kowotow – I quoted two cases. The article I linked to quotes another extensively covered case in Delhi.

Men raping and abusing often involves using power to subjugate women and children, and many religious hierarchies have promoted or at least covered up these abuses. It is not (and never has been) just a problem in the Islam world.

It is a mainly male abuse of power and religion, deliberately denied by religious patriarchal remnants trying to cling to their abusive hypocrisies.
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January 3, 2013 11:36am
SPC

The nature of religious supremacists is to subjugate the world and they justify this by first condemning all those with any difference to themselves.
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January 3, 2013 11:39am
Azeraph

Like Monique states. “Inflation”
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January 3, 2013 11:43am
Andrei

It is a mainly male abuse of power and religion, deliberately denied by religious patriarchal remnants trying to cling to their abusive hypocrisies.

What could this babble mean?

Women have babies, men can’t – Pete George. Women can’t have babies without men though. Is this unfair? Is this patriarchal?

Who the fuck knows? It is the way it is, we have to live with it and make the best of it or not as the case may be
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January 3, 2013 11:53am
mikenmild

kowtow
Irony obviously escapes you. I shall endeavour to answer your future questions as comprehensively and straightforwardly as possible in the hopes of engendering an informed dialogue.
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January 3, 2013 12:02pm
Pete George

Andrei:

Who the fuck knows?

said earlier:

So has the pomposity of mental midgits regurgitating the talking points they have been fed but haven’t the mental capacity to understand.

The fairly obvious fact that women have babies doesn’t excuse men wanting to own them and control them (and abuse them unquestioned).

A growing number of enlightened people (including many non-power clinging non-hypocritical Christians) understand that “to live with it and make the best of it” involves giving people of both sexes equal rights and respect.
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January 3, 2013 12:03pm
Azeraph

Amazing how these old communities are reacting to other systems leaving them behind. They will change when their young and their young take the reins.
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January 3, 2013 12:15pm
Kea

Russia & China have given up on socialism

LOL.
I thought we saved jokes for the end of the day?

Fletch, have a look around your house and see how many things are “made in China”. Now tell me who the real capitalists are. Notice all those Chinese immigrants bludging off our social (socialist) welfare system. No? Neither did I.

As heartbreaking as it may be for mikenmild (and co.) the USSR is no more and few people take the socialist dream seriously. I mentioned previously that a friend of mine is a signed up “Party” member, but does not believe in socialism. The membership is only for political reasons that effect career prospects. I have never met a commie from a commie country.
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January 3, 2013 12:28pm
Andrei

Pete George you nong it is a fundamental necessity that men form sexual relationships with women – it has too happen, there is no choice in this matter

There are three possibilities

(1) The male dominates the female

(2) The female dominates the male

(3) Or there is what is sometimes described as a match made in heaven whereby the man and the woman unite and become in religious parlance one flesh growing ever closer together.

Throughout the ages all three types of relationship have always coexisted with though in different ratios depending on the culture

Islam tries to drive the balance in favour of the first

Feminism tries to drive the balance to favour the second

Christianity tries to drive the balance reinforce the third

Your electronic spewings are feminist/marxist in origin and are not about improving gender relations but about undermining them
>
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January 3, 2013 12:31pm
Fletch

I see that Charlie Hebdo has just released part one of a comic book on the life of Mohammed (which you can buy online for 6 pounds), which they say won’t be funny but truthful. Look for more Muslim violence, I guess.
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January 3, 2013 12:35pm
hj

Useful Fools:

What Diversity Dividend?
by Spoonley

“Fantastic piece. Thanks so much.
Vancouver’s experience is probably like Canada’s on the whole. Trudeau brought in multiculturalism by federal directive in the 70s (“Although there are two founding peoples there is no founding culture…” and that mirrored Laurier before him…) Then in 1982, multiculturalism was enshrined in the Charter. Then in the mid-80s a Conservative PM enacted the “Multiculturalism Act”.
Now in Canada’s large cities it’s somewhat amusing to hear people speaking English. Fourth generation Canadians are seen as an amusing relic. Do you eat roasts? Do your parents wear sweaters to dinner and talk about classical music, ha ha ha?
The reality is that in NZ, the hegemony of Anglo Saxon culture refuses to die. The Interfaith dialogue was a fantastic example of that. Also, we never had (much) immigration from Central, Eastern or Southern Europe. We still treat South Africans and Pomps as “one of us”.
Most people that run this country (wealthy baby boomers) grew up not knowing anyone from different cultures and didn’t travel much when they were young. There is still a serious fear of the unknown. Let’s be honest, we NZers didn’t travel at all until very recently. There were really no coffee shops or restaurants in this country until the 90s for chrissake. How can you expect the political class to suddenly embrace all these different people?
That MP from Rodney would have had to flee the country in Canada after making jokes about fruit pickers during an election. The current PM didn’t even growl him let alone cut him loose. That would have been hanging offence #1 short of having kiddie porn or eating one’s young.
The truth is that non-white and non-English speaking immigrants to this country feel no particular sentimental loyalty to NZ. Most of them I speak to, and I speak to many, want to move to Aussie/Canada/USA. On a cynical realpolitik level, they are a somewhat unclaimed cohort of voters.
The magic that Trudeau created was that almost all of the immigrant communities in Canada became loyal to the Liberals.
In reality we suffer from the lamest form of racism: we’re kind of embarrassed by their accents and funny foods. At worst, we have Winston. At least Melissa Lee properly slammed Winston in her maiden speech.
It was on that basis that I felt Shearer’s election was a failure. Helen got the nod and it was a big deal that it went to a woman. Then it reverted to a physically capable, heterosexual, white, educated and wealthy male. Yipdee fucking shit.
And we struggle to even begin the process of developing an active and inclusive multiculturalism.”

Russell Brown

If you’re going to “be honest”, look up some numbers. Canada has the highest per capita net immigration rate in the world and still manages to be quite admirable. *Spain, which has absorbed more than three million immigrants since 2000, is flourishing.* Immigration to Norway is at record levels.
And really, even in New Zealand, where a dizzying 23% of the population was born elsewhere, I can’t see the social fabric tearing, let alone any “cultural genocide” going on.
One of the things I liked most about the years I lived in London was the diversity of faces and voices (I don’t think that’s unconnected to Britain’s continued cultural vitality). It was actually a relief to return to New Zealand and find our cultural homgenity breaking up.

http://publicaddress.net/speaker/what-diversity-dividend/
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January 3, 2013 1:07pm
Pete George

Andrei…

…it is a fundamental necessity that men form sexual relationships with women – it has to happen, there is no choice in this matter

I hope you don’t mean one party in the relationship doesn’t have any choice if it ‘has to happen’ according to another.

There are three possibilities

(1) The male dominates the female

(2) The female dominates the male

(3) Or there is what is sometimes described as a match made in heaven whereby the man and the woman unite and become in religious parlance one flesh growing ever closer together.

Apart from querying the degree of domination you are meaining you’ve left out a fairly obvious and probably quite common alternative – two adults get on with each other in a relationship of mutual respect. If one has a headache the other understands and waits until the time is right for both.

Islam tries to drive the balance in favour of the first

Not just Islam – or some Muslim people. Other religious and non-religious people also think the male should dominate to the point of getting everything his own way.

Feminism tries to drive the balance to favour the second

Really? Maybe some do, but from my limited knowledge of feminism generally females wanted equal rights.

Christianity tries to drive the balance reinforce the third

That ignores a non-Christ-like predominance of male domination in Christianity throughout the ages.

Your electronic spewings are feminist/marxist in origin and are not about improving gender relations but about undermining them

That’s laughable, I have no connections with feminism or marxism. Never have had. You really don’t understand people outside your own wee bubble, do you.

Can you explain how promoting equal gender rights and mutual respect without violence undermines gender relations (apart from relationships where one party wants to maintain dominance by force over another)?

I think I’ve got a much more Christ-like mindset towards gender relations than you have.
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January 3, 2013 1:52pm
Rodders

At worst, we have Winston

Quite.
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January 3, 2013 1:53pm
Rodders

Pete, you might be using the wrong strategy with Andrei – rational argument.
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January 3, 2013 2:02pm
hj

Rodders (1,549) Says:
January 3rd, 2013 at 1:53 pm

At worst, we have Winston

Quite.

……………………….
That’s my point; they’re useful fools for the likes of you.
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January 3, 2013 2:13pm
kowtow

Look for more violence,quite, but don’t expect the MSM to report too much of it.When the “I” religion is involved they tend
to shy off it,it’s “racist” don’t you know?( or some such excuse)

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/01/france-muslims-celebrate-new-years-eve-by-burning-1200-cars.html
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January 3, 2013 2:14pm
hj

Bold young men drove sheep on to the vast grazing runs to found pastoral empires and land owning dynasties. Out of the wealth from the squatters’ wool clips, and from wheat when the tussock was ploughed, grew a city of scholarship, grace and dignity” Professor Kenneth Cumberland Landmarks

“Christchurch could rival Auckland in ethnic diversity as it attracts high numbers of migrants needed for the post-quake rebuild, says Massey University sociologist Professor Paul Spoonley.

He says up to 40,000 migrants are predicted to arrive in Christchurch in the next 18 months based on estimates from Canterbury Employment and Skills. This could prompt a “sea change” in the way immigrants are perceived by the city, which is one of the country’s least ethnically diverse areas.

Dubbed the “earthquake effect” by the Asia New Zealand Foundation, people in Christchurch are said to feel more positive about migrants as a result of local immigrant communities playing a major role in helping with recovery after the February 2011 quake.

One thing he is clear about is that the demographic changes set to occur in Christchurch could transform the city infamous for its white supremacist National Front movement. While Christchurch does have small ethnic enclaves, hosting lantern festivals for Chinese New Year and Diwali festivals for the Indian community, the scale of the anticipated migrant influx is unparalleled in its history.

“The influx proportionate to the population is significant. I’m not sure we’ve seen anything like it in New Zealand”, he says. “It’s one thing to talk about it and a different to experience it. Conditions will change as you get a significant influx of culturally different people.”
http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle_uuid=86EB3C7F-B375-B8DF-A111-53B3788C75E5

“JESSICA – How is Auckland growing compared with the rest of the world in terms of a city?

PAUL – Well, just to talk about New Zealand for a minute – natural growth, that’s the births over deaths, is still the most important factor in New Zealand’s growth. But in Auckland, our most important factor is immigration. So we are one of the major destination cities around the world, and you can see that in the make-up of Auckland – the number of people who have been born overseas.

JESSICA – Let’s talk about that immigration mix, particularly in a place like Auckland. 40% of the population is born overseas. What is that immigration growth looking like long term?

PAUL – Well, the first thing is that 40% puts us right at the top. I mean, there aren’t many cities around the world that have 40% of their population born overseas. I mean, Toronto, Vancouver, but really

New Zealand is growing slowly. Statistics New Zealand have released their first population projection since 2009. With nearly 4.5 million people living here now, the projections show slow growth in coming years – 5 million in the mid-2020s, 6 million around 2060. But it’s the make-up of that population that’s most interesting. By the late 2020s, 1 million New Zealanders – that’s one in five – will be over 65, and there’ll be more of them than there are children under 15. And as our fertility rates decline, so the proportion of immigrants rises. To help explain what all this might mean, here’s Jessica Mutch with Massey University professor Paul Spoonley.”

Can living in laneways fix Toronto’s density issues?
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1307204–can-living-in-laneways-fix-toronto-s-density-issues
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January 3, 2013 2:23pm
Pete George

The ‘Littlewood Treaty’ has been mentioned a bit here. An archivist gives his view on it:

Despite the various conspiracy theories and ravings of loons like Ian Wishart the “Littlewood treaty” is not suppressed, hidden or ignored – it has been subject to quite intense study and investigation since it was “discovered” or rather “re-discovered” in 1989 by the Littlewood family in family papers.

The Littlewood documentation is historically interesting but in terms of the ongoing discussion of the Treaty it is irrelevant – the Treaty is the one signed by Hobson and the chiefs at Waitangi (the rat eaten one in Archives NZ) written in Maori and the subsequent copies sent around the country to be signed by other Chiefs (most in Maori – except for one sheet which is an English translation of the Maori).

That’s it – the “Littlewood Treaty” isn’t a Treaty because no one signed it – it is, at best, a draft and more likely an early (and slightly inaccurate) copy.

Thus, no further discussion about its treaty status needs to proceed.

http://yournz.org/2013/01/03/treaty-of-waitangi-the-littlewood-version/

It’s not a signed version so it means nothing apart from being of some possible historical interest.
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January 3, 2013 2:24pm
Griff

Yes pete that’s the official line

The international legal doctrine of contra preferentum means indigenous language versions of treaties between indigenous peoples and colonizing powers are the ones that must be adhered to where there is disagreement.

Is conveniently taken from English law to insure we think the stupid piece of paper is binding
The treaty was not signed under English law so international law should be respected
International law of treatys states if the translations are in disagreement the document is void
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January 3, 2013 2:37pm
Rodders

That’s my point; they’re useful fools for the likes of you.

I will see if Google Translate can assist with interpreting that sentence.
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January 3, 2013 2:38pm
Weihana

krazykiwi (8,510) Says:
January 3rd, 2013 at 11:03 am

Long term economic growth–and even growth in the short run–depends on an expanding labor force.

And you have measured this by the labour force participation rate. A percentage figure. Pray tell, if we ever reached 100% participation would this mean the economy could grow no more?

Since January 2009, the labor force participation rate has declined by almost two percentage points. That’s three and a half million Americans who have given up looking for work.

“given up looking for work”. Or they’ve gone back to school to retrain/upskill or have decided to concentrate on raising their family like back in the good old days. Isn’t this what conservatives always advocate should happen?

If the labor force participation rate were now at its January 2009 level, unemployment would be 10.7 percent. That’s higher than unemployment was in 2009, when the recession was at its most severe.

If…..

But surely those who have “given up” don’t just find themselves a gutter to die in. Those who need work will always continue to look for it and the unemployment rate is designed to measure that. It makes no sense to include those who have no need to look and who aren’t looking. By that logic you may as well just say the unemployment rate is 30-odd percent.

Not to discount the fact that the economy is not charging ahead and lower levels of participation are perhaps an reflection of that. But it is hardly the be all and end all metric by which to measure economic recovery. Indeed labour force participation increased during the stagflation of the 1970s.

It’s also worth pointing out that the peak in participation was reached in the late 90s. Perhaps there is a trend in there which has nothing to do with the global financial crisis.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000
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January 3, 2013 2:59pm
hinamanu

‘For those who are skeptical of the terms ‘global citizen’ and ‘world class’ in relation to New Zealand. Pah’

NZ was the gunea pig nation fpr the globalists. Winston said we were too far away from Europe to be a concern for them

oh? Think Rainbow Warrior

But our isolation was exactly why we were picked to experiment globalist agendas with the help of the Nat/Lab socialist coalition. John Key is a Keysnian economist which is fully socialist by design and implemented fully, fascist.
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January 3, 2013 3:32pm
hinamanu

Millions of farmers vs Monsanto

The agriculture giant Monsanto says their mission is improving agriculture and improving lives.

Monsanto, the world’s largest producer of genetically modified seeds, has waged war on small farmers by suing hundreds of them over alleged patent infringement.

But in Brazil, 5,000,000 farmers are suing the company because they say that Monsanto claims unfair annual royalties for renewal harvest of their seeds.

http://www.therealfoodchannel.com/videos/gmos-genetically-modified-food-1/brazilian-farmers-fight-back.html
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January 3, 2013 3:38pm
Manolo

@kowtow@2.14pm
Those savages and wild beasts should be deported.
But of course, the French welcomed and must suffer them in the name of multiculturalism.
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January 3, 2013 3:42pm
Manolo

John Key is a Keynesian economist..

Dead right he is.
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January 3, 2013 3:44pm
SPC

Weihana, one suspects some of the middle class unemployed would rather work part-time and supplement this with investment income (rather than keep growing their retirement savings) than remain on welfare.
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January 3, 2013 3:52pm
Kea

hinamanu, if it was really that bad for the farmers, then they would choose not to use Monsanto seed. It sounds like a simple breach of contract.
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January 3, 2013 4:30pm
Andrei

Poor Pete George, knows nothing of romance, of winning a woman worth winning, and lives in the grim world of feminist narative created by bitter old scroats no man would ever want

http://youtu.be/edOJx3Ogq8k
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January 3, 2013 4:40pm
kowtow

Talking of labour markets,international treaties and diversity dividends the honest citizens of the UK are shitting bricks about what their wonderful leaders and membership of the EU will bring them in 2013.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/355041/Now-29m-Bulgarians-and-Romanians-can-soon-move-to-Britain
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January 3, 2013 4:56pm
hinamanu

@kea

Watch the vid. Once farmers sign a Monsanto contract they are liable to annual royalties to Monsanto for life
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January 3, 2013 4:57pm
Viking2

US govt accused of deception over Megaupload

Lawyers acting for Megaupload have accused the United States Justice Department of intentionally misleading a US court when applying for a search warrant that it later used to seize and take down the file-sharing service.

Megaupload said in a submission today to the US Federal Court in Virginia that the Justice Department had claimed Megaupload had failed to remove 36 pirated movies from its servers for more than a year, when it knew all along that the company was actually co-operating in a secret criminal investigation over the offending content.
They intentionally misled” the court in order to take down Megaupload.

The fact Megaupload had left the copyright-infringing movies on its servers between June 2010 and November 2011 was the only “direct, corroborated evidence” the Justice Department gave the court of criminal complicity by Megaupload, Rothken said in a bl

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/8140658/US-govt-accused-of-deception-over-Megaupload
—————–
So the FBI and its henchmen arranged a secret deal to trap other users then misled the Court. No doubt KS will think that’s ok..
Hmm they Need another Helen Winkleman to put them right.
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January 3, 2013 5:17pm
Reid

Media bullshit in plain sight, for the useless idiot morons who don’t get it and apparently according to all behaviour past and present, never ever will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHv_RhVgfUQ&feature=player_embedded

BTW, if you’re not a useless idiot moron, surely shirley, you’d have to ask during that live interview of the father, just how could it possibli be, that only hours after his six y.o. “daughter” was “killed” he could calmly walk up to the camera like that and deliver his lines, just like an actor would, except this is the “real news” which everyone knows, always tells the truth, doesn’t it.

And here’s something else. Quite tenuous and who knows. http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/281314.html But the point is, if you’re not a useless idiot moron, then you really look into this incident, because it really does stink like hell, unless of course you’re one of those people who couldn’t possibly imagine the “authorities” could do something like this, because you know that’s not how the world works, therefore, it can’t be true, whatever happens, no matter what.
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January 3, 2013 6:01pm
krazykiwi

Weiana 2:59pm

Pray tell, if we ever reached 100% participation would this mean the economy could grow no more?

.

I’m sure there are a range of measures which contribute to growth. It looks like you’re attempting to suggest labour market participation has no bearing, which is a bit silly.

But surely those who have “given up” don’t just find themselves a gutter to die in. Those who need work will always continue to look for it and the unemployment rate is designed to measure that.

Of course, you missed commenting on the subsequent section of the opinion piece, which noted the rise in food stamp welfare. That’s ~17% of US citizens, and 30% of children dependent on welfare. I wonder how many US citizens are newly dependent on welfare because it’s far, far easier to get than is a job?

It makes no sense to include [in the unemployment rate] those who have no need to look and who aren’t looking. By that logic you may as well just say the unemployment rate is 30-odd percent.

A more accurate measure for the rate of unemployment would be the proportion of working-age residents who are not employed, rather than the number drawing an unemployment benefit as a proportion of working-age residents

The writer suggests that a declining labour market participation rate, combined with fewer private sector jobs, more state sector jobs ‘created’ and increased welfare isn’t good for growth. I’m inclined to agree.
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January 3, 2013 6:05pm
TimG_Oz

I learnt all I ever needed to know on Iranian Government TV 🙂
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January 3, 2013 6:18pm
Reid

Good background on the CIA coup in Iran.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/12/31/david-rockefeller-the-looting-of-iran/

Which they’re attempting again, and will start in full force, as soon as Syria falls. Pity about all those civilians including children who’ve been raped and had their slits isn’t it. I guess they’re just ‘casualties of war.’ Ah well. It’s worth it isn’t it. So long as those nutter ragheads aren’t going to be in charge anymore, like they aren’t in Egypt, and Libya, and soon won’t be either, in Syria.

It’s all about a safer, more secure world, isn’t it. Aren’t you glad you’re on the side of “the good guys” who are just desperately trying to do “the right thing” in the face of all these nasty tewwowists who hate our fweedom.
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January 3, 2013 6:19pm
Reid

I learnt all I ever needed to know on Iranian Government TV

Whereas US govt TV e.g. Fox, always gives one “all the news fit to print.” don’t they 🙂
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January 3, 2013 6:21pm
TimG_Oz

Whereas US govt TV e.g. Fox, always gives one “all the news fit to print.” don’t they

Of course they do. I tell them to. And CNN, ABC, NBC, TVNZ, ABC Aus, BBC and any others in my controlled Western zone.
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January 3, 2013 6:43pm
nasska

How the US government is organised.

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cqfrbuxklmtmj40/Explaining%20the%20US%20Government%20via%20Star%20Wars.png
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January 3, 2013 6:46pm
Fletch

nasska –

The Obama administration is ‘considering’ building a Death Star after an online petition reached the 25,000 signatures it needed to be accepted by the White House.

The online petition, which calls for the U.S. government to ‘secure resources and funding, and begin construction of a Death Star by 2016’ now has more than 27,000 signatures.

The petition on the White House’s We The People website for the U.S. to build its own Death Star was started by a Colorado man identified only as John D.

A statement reads: ‘By focusing our defense resources into a space-superiority platform and weapon system such as a Death Star, the government can spur job creation in the fields of construction, engineering, space exploration, and more, and strengthen our national defense.’

The We The People website claims that any petition which attracts 25,000 signatures within 30 days will be guaranteed as assessment by White House staff.

‘If a petition gets enough support, White House staff will review it, ensure it’s sent to the appropriate policy experts, and issue an official response,’ it says.

Students from Lehigh University of Pennsylvania in February calculated that, in today’s economy, it would cost $852quadrillion to build a 140m diameter Death Star.

At current production rates, it would take 833,315 years to mine enough steel to begin work on such a weapon, they estimated.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2248142/Obama-administration-considering-building-Death-Star-Petition-forces-White-House-assess-feasibility-moon-sized-weapon.html
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January 3, 2013 6:52pm
nasska

Fletch

The only thing about that article which gives me hope for the future is the estimation that “it would take 833,315 years to mine enough steel to begin work on such a weapon”. 🙂
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January 3, 2013 6:56pm
Viking2

no wonder bhp amd rio shares have jumped up.
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January 3, 2013 7:00pm
Viking2

Mind you the ore is going to China so suppossedly China is making steel for the next 833,314.5 years.
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January 3, 2013 7:01pm
Andrei

I don’t think the Obama administration could build a “death star”.

The only way Americans can get into space is if the Russians take them and I don’t think Russia would go along with using its rockets for such an enterprise – it wouldn’t be a very smart move on the Russians part to do so
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January 3, 2013 7:05pm
Johnboy

If you used Aluminium (sorry Aluminum) it should only take around 833,315*0.386=321,659 years. 🙂
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January 3, 2013 7:08pm
Johnboy

Course if you used African-Americans or Maori it would never happen! 🙂
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January 3, 2013 7:10pm
Reid

More on my 6:01:

http://terroronthetube.co.uk/2012/12/30/sandy-hook-us-state-fabricated-terror/
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January 3, 2013 7:12pm
Manolo

Reid, are you imitating trivialrev (hinamanu) at being a 911 truther? She’s the conspiracy queen!
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January 3, 2013 7:19pm
Steve (North Shore)

Mind you the ore is going to China

Realy? when and what time? I guess you were meaning someone else
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January 3, 2013 7:21pm
Steve (North Shore)

Reid @ 7.12

Now you are just not paranoid, but silly, stop it and take the pills.

Prove your theory, not some shit found on the net
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January 3, 2013 7:34pm
nasska

I remember being really apprehensive when I attended my first autopsy. It was on the body of an old alkie whose body had lain undiscovered under a bridge for a fortnight.
“Here,” my more experienced colleague said, handing me a jar of Vaseline. “Stick this up your nose. You won’t smell a thing.”
“Will the body be that bad?” I asked.
“No,” he replied, “but the pathologist’s a Pom, so best to be on the safe side.”
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January 3, 2013 8:00pm
Reid

Reid, are you imitating trivialrev (hinamanu) at being a 911 truther?

Manolo look at my posts on NZPundit back in early 2003. I must say it’s taken some a long time to catch up and incredibly, some still haven’t.

All that cognitive dissonance, you see.

Now you are just not paranoid, but silly, stop it and take the pills. Prove your theory, not some shit found on the net

Steve I’m not promulgating a “theory,” merely pointing out stuff that may or may not have happened in that incident. OTY to click those links in that story and look at the background and pursue it if you wish and never mind about the ~~sore tummy~~ cognitive dissonance. One issue for me on this is the reports the school was littered with .223 shells that could only have come from the Bushmaster yet the Bushmaster was found locked in the trunk. How could that have possibly happened. Another issue is the bullshit killing of Emilie Parker who then sat on Obama’s lap after the shooting and whose “father” did a bollocks acting job on “the news.” Another issue is the guy in camo pants who was filmed outside the school escaping from police who was arrested and there is also a radio conversation of the cops who he was coming toward, and the media hasn’t talked about him.

But this in-depth media analysis and “truth” is mere de riguer these days in the land of the free and the home of the brave, isn’t it. Good on you, if you’re satisfied with that.
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January 3, 2013 8:01pm
Steve (North Shore)

321,659 years, Johnboy?
.
That would be an Election year, with Alumin… – (that white metal) being the World currency as well.
See how Wall St deals with that
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January 3, 2013 8:02pm
liarbors a joke

Left a 5 week old baby alone and went drinking next door..

Baby dies…no charges yet…”Police at a delicate stage of the investagation ”

Gota be South Auckland..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8140431/Parents-left-baby-that-died-unattended
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January 3, 2013 8:17pm
MT_Tinman

Gota be South Auckland..

No, it could be damned near every young parent(s) in the world.

Leaving a baby asleep while ducking next door for a very short time is not unusual at all.
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January 3, 2013 8:29pm
nasska

A man in Canberra decides the way to make a fortune is to open a ten-pin bowling alley. He builds the ultimate bowling alley with 20 lanes, 2 restaurants and various bars. On the afternoon before the official opening he is standing around admiring his creation when he realises he’s forgotten to order bowling balls. He rings the manufacturer in Sydney and orders 1000 balls. The supplier advises that he has them in stock and all he has to do is drill and polish them and then he can air-freight them to Canberra. The bowling alley proprietor says this will cost too much in freight and asks that they be sent by road in a 22 wheeler semi trailer.

The supplier works into the night and the balls are loaded and despatched. Travelling at great speed and in the middle of nowhere the truck driver sees 2 blokes standing on the side of the road. He stops to offer assistance and the 2 guys, who he sees are Aborigines, say that their bike has broken down on the way to Canberra and they are stranded. He offers them a lift but says they must travel in the back because company policy prevents passengers in the cabin. They climb in with their bike and he speeds off.

Shortly after he’s pulled up by the police. One policeman says to his mate, “You book him while I check his load.” He opens the back but quickly slams and locks the door. And he runs to his mate and says, “Forget booking him. Let’s just get him across the border and out of New South Wales.” Despite his mates’ protests, they head off at great speed to the Canberra border, escorting the truck. At the border they stop and the truck hurtles on.

The policeman then says to his mate, “Will you tell me why I couldn’t book him and we had to escort him here?”

He replies, “When I opened the back I could see it was full of Abo eggs. We had to get them out of the state because two have already hatched and one of them has stolen a bike!”
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January 3, 2013 8:30pm
liarbors a joke

‘Leaving a baby asleep while ducking next door for a very short time is not unusual at all.’

Maybe…but these ferals were on the piss so I doubt it was ” a very short time “. They should be strung up and beaten.
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January 3, 2013 9:00pm
hinamanu

‘Reid, are you imitating trivialrev (hinamanu) at being a 911 truther?

Had to say it ….. two planes (which engineers all over the world say couldn’t have taken down the buildings)

But three buildings went down. That’s the truth.
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January 3, 2013 9:23pm
Fletch

A better way to look at the “fiscal cliff” –

Lesson # 1:

* U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
* Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
* New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
* National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
* Recent budget cuts: $ 38,500,000,000

Let’s now remove 8 zeros and pretend it’s a household budget:

* Annual family income: $21,700
* Money the family spent: $38,200
* New debt on the credit card: $16,500
* Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
* Total budget cuts: $385

Got It ?????

OK now Lesson # 2: Here’s another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:

Let’s say, You come home from work and find there has been a sewer backup in your neighborhood….and your home has sewage all the way up to your ceilings.
What do you think you should do ……
Raise the ceilings, or pump out the crap?
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January 3, 2013 9:27pm
Reid

Never mind Fletch, there’s always this to take everyone’s mind off the silly old fiscal cliff…

http://www.naturalnews.com/038512_2013_predictions_insanity.html
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January 3, 2013 9:44pm
Pauleastbay

http://www.smh.com.au/world/gunman-shoots-dead-three-people-in-swiss-village-20130103-2c73c.html

Personally I blame Swiss gangsta rap and the constant diet of violent Swiss movies and television that we are exposed to.
Only in Switzerland where its OK to hoard Nazi goldthat never gets mentioned
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January 3, 2013 9:56pm
Left Right and Centre

nasska @ 8:00pm… I like that one.

I’m not reading the long one. No joke is worth that much effort… hahahaha
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January 4, 2013 3:42am
Left Right and Centre

reply to liabors a joke: What’s with MT_Tinman? He’s got that really wrong mate!! 100% agree with you. What can you bloody do about the idiot class however?

More idiots:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/hawkes-bay/8139177/Girl-6-critical-after-quad-bike-crash

That is just **fucking** stupid. That’s straight out of The Simpsons….

Is there a higher proportion of thick people today compared to 30-40-50 years ago?
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January 4, 2013 3:59am
Left Right and Centre

Regarding 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

I was watching something and they had demolition experts that bring shit down as a career. They were saying there’s simply no way in hell you could’ve hidden all the preparation required away from the office workers. The way they were telling it…. there’s just no way in hell all the explosives and wiring and everything else could’ve been done without anyone noticing. Can’t be done… and if it can… it was something that the demolition experts knew nothing about.

But that’s the thing with not trusting anything. Everyone’s in on the cover-up… demolition firms… the govt… thousands of people would have to all keep a secret eh? Well, that’s plausible.

Have you noticed that folks who reckon 7 WTC dropping was due to a conspiracy are always people who don’t actually drop buildings for a living? Yeah. That doesn’t straight away make them wrong but yeah.

Then you’d have to find people you could trust to fly planes into buildings killing themselves in the process to make it look like terrorism… this is getting more and more stupid and unlikely the more shit you have to factor in. Forget it!!

What a bunch of sad case dickheads with their stupid shitty misguided bollocks. I feel sorry for the fools. What would it take? Throwing up a few replicas of WTC 7 and bringing them down in different ways to prove that it wasn’t a controlled demolition? Nothing would convince them…*be-*cause* *they’re* **nutters**!!
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January 4, 2013 4:26am
Sofia

Left Right and Centre
And as has been said before – very tiresome for many, sorry – that as well as the thousand who would have to keep quiet, there was Osama bin Laden on who the whole deal was pinned as perpetrator. Now if he could show or prove in anyway it was an inside job, that the US Government killed it’s own people for emotional leverage, the USA would destroy itself – his mission accomplished. But he never blew the whistle either …
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January 4, 2013 7:49am

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